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  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,901



    It really is only on this site (this mad, mad site) that absolutely everything is linked to Brexit.

    As someone who lives in East London and has travelled on one of the new trains from Romford to Liverpool Street I have a deal of sympathy for you and for all those who I know are working incredibly hard to ensure the new railway is safe and reliable when it opens.

    Too many large projects are set unrealistic deadlines and provided with inadequate resources both in the public and private sectors. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to be passed round but once it's been up and running a few years and everyone sees what a marvel it is no one will care.

    From the outside the scale of what has been done and what is still happening are daunting in the extreme. The sheer logistics of station construction in the middle of one of the busiest cities in the world takes the word challenge off to lunch with the in-laws.

    MY worry is no lessons will be learned - irrespective of an enquiry replete with hindsight the question for me is why, when it became clear the target dates were not achievable, individuals felt unable or unwilling to speak up. Is it a fear of culpability, blame, failure? Why do we resent failure, it happens, we all fail sometimes, the weakness is not learning from failure not in the failure itself.

    I see the usual political blame game is going on - Tories blaming Khan, Labour blaming Boris. I doubt either has much to account for in all honesty - the failures are multiple and endemic within the project but perhaps the fact no one wanted to be the first to admit their area was falling behind was the problem, We need to create environments where failure is accepted, understood and acted on without blame, finger pointing and destroying the careers and livelihoods of those concerned.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    nico67 said:

    Amazing how quiet the media are over the latest cases of Islamophobia in the Tory Party .

    One can only imagine the wall to wall coverage if this had been Labour . Both parties have issues , but clearly the media blackout by the BBC and others only fuels suspicion that they’re happy to report issues with Labour but seem less interested in doing the same with the government .

    You have an audience - why not share the details
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    AndyJS said:

    "From Ann Widdecombe to Sargon of Akkad, the EU elections are starting to look like a dinner party from hell

    As Change UK candidates drop like flies, the remaining am-dram troupe of European parliament hopefuls look like a sorry bunch

    Sean O'Grady"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-party-ann-widdecombe-nigel-farage-change-uk-ukip-eu-elections-a8884336.html

    MEP hopefuls ALWAYS look like a sorry bunch. Hell, it's the only place Farage can get elected....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    The irony of course being that many Africans were enslaved by the Arabs, right up till the 20th century...

    Why is it 'ironic' that Africans have been enslaved by all and sundry?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Charles said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    538 has a more measured assessment:
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-joe-biden-could-win-the-2020-democratic-nomination/

    I appreciate Mike is pretty dismissive of Biden's prospects, but it seems a mistake to write off any of the top half dozen candidates at this point.

    Yes, Nate's article is a good balanced assessment. Clearly Biden has a goodish chance, but it's early days and there are significant obstacles.
    An interesting question is who will be the top ten who make it to the first debate, and what metric will they apply to allocate spaces at the grownup version ?

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/440599-booker-fundraises-off-biden-announcement
    The Democratic National Committee has said no more than 20 candidates will be allowed to attend debates with only 10 on stage at one time. Candidates must poll at 1 percent or more in three national or early primary state polls or receive contributions from at least 65,000 donors in 20 states to qualify....

    Anyone outside that is probably toast.
    8 more or less certain to make it to the first debate :

    Biden
    Sanders
    Buttigieg
    Harris
    Warren
    O 'Rourke
    Booker
    Klobuchar

    Then after 2 of:

    -----------
    Yang
    Castro
    Gillibrand
    Hickenlooper
    ------------

    I think perhaps Yang and Gillibrand.
    What's happened to Hickenlooper? Seem to recall OGH was quite keen.
    Repurposed himself as a radiohead tribute act when it was pointed out that he anagrams to "OK Necrophile."
    Otoh Nunzi (or whatever daft nickname you attach to Annunziata) was overjoyed that her anagram fits right in.

    https://twitter.com/Fabapocalypse/status/1121347797343715328
    She’s officially Unity Rees Mogg (on this board at least)
    Unity is Strength

    Jacob is Softy Walter
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    stodge said:

    Too many large projects are set unrealistic deadlines and provided with inadequate resources both in the public and private sectors. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to be passed round but once it's been up and running a few years and everyone sees what a marvel it is no one will care.

    That is not my experience of massive projects in the oil and gas sector. You might think having to build a small town on stilts in the North Sea to survive the 100 year wave would tax the budgetary planning to the maximum. But it generally happens. That might be because they hav JV partners crawling over their expenditure.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    "From Ann Widdecombe to Sargon of Akkad, the EU elections are starting to look like a dinner party from hell

    As Change UK candidates drop like flies, the remaining am-dram troupe of European parliament hopefuls look like a sorry bunch

    Sean O'Grady"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-party-ann-widdecombe-nigel-farage-change-uk-ukip-eu-elections-a8884336.html

    MEP hopefuls ALWAYS look like a sorry bunch. Hell, it's the only place Farage can get elected....
    Would Farage have been able to get elected as an MEP under the old system of huge FPTP constituencies? Probably not.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    "From Ann Widdecombe to Sargon of Akkad, the EU elections are starting to look like a dinner party from hell

    As Change UK candidates drop like flies, the remaining am-dram troupe of European parliament hopefuls look like a sorry bunch

    Sean O'Grady"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-party-ann-widdecombe-nigel-farage-change-uk-ukip-eu-elections-a8884336.html

    MEP hopefuls ALWAYS look like a sorry bunch. Hell, it's the only place Farage can get elected....
    Would Farage have been able to get elected as an MEP under the old system of huge FPTP constituencies? Probably not.
    This time? Perhaps so.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    They are pretty thin gruel, that is why the media are 'quiet' about them, as you put it. The Conservative Party doesn't have the issues at the top, as Labour does, nor the sheer number of cases, and it has mostly dealt with those cases which have arisen.

    Baroness Warsi does not agree with you.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    What's the plan, take us back in so we can properly flounce out the EU?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    I'm waiting for Booty-gig to assure Americans that his election "would guarantee there'd be no pussy-grabber in the White House....."

    It may surprise you but the Christian right (albeit of the Democrats) are his biggest supporters. They are more likely to go to church and listen to Conservative radio than supporters of any other candidate.
    I have a theory (bear with me).

    Democrats who are identifiably religious (and specifically Christian) do better.

    Jimmy Carter: religious
    Bill Clinton: ostensibly religious
    Barack Obama: religious

    Hillary Clinton: gave up pretending to be religious
    John Kerry: not religious that I'm aware of
    Al Gore: religious, but only about climate change

    Buttig... Mayor Pete is genuinely religious. He talks the language of faith in a way that none of the other candidates do. In theory being a gay man should sink him with Evangelicals... but speaking the right language matters, and I think he'll do extremely well with religious Democrats. And were he nominee, he might even persuade a few Religious Republicans to stay home. (It's harder to paint him as the Anti-Christ that must be stopped.)

  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Oh dear, Joe Biden seems to have gaffed by quoting the Declaration of Independence in his opening campaign email.

    How's that a gaffe ?
    "America is an idea. Based on a founding principle that all men are created equal".
    It’s not modern wording, but is the failure to include “/women/whatever else should be included” really a gaffe?

    Can’t people look beyond the trivial and focus on the important message he’s trying to highlight?
    We know the answer to that last question. The professionally offended will always be offended.
    Would it have been so hard to replace “men” worth “people” in that sentence?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited April 2019
    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    When James Burge, the defence counsel, pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her, she dismissed the denial by stating, "Well (giggle) he would, wouldn’t he?"
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Oh dear, Joe Biden seems to have gaffed by quoting the Declaration of Independence in his opening campaign email.

    How's that a gaffe ?
    "America is an idea. Based on a founding principle that all men are created equal".
    It’s not modern wording, but is the failure to include “/women/whatever else should be included” really a gaffe?

    Can’t people look beyond the trivial and focus on the important message he’s trying to highlight?
    We know the answer to that last question. The professionally offended will always be offended.
    Would it have been so hard to replace “men” worth “people” in that sentence?
    Biden: The Next Generation...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    Is Khan pushing for before or after his reelection day?
    Khan wants it before his election day, so he can claim it in the campaign and is putting a lot of pressure on the project to deliver.

    It won't happen. You can't cut corners with railway reliability and safety.
    Sort of my question - does he push to announce a date prior to the vote and risk an embarrassing delay
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited April 2019
    Macron announces 'fairer, more humane' reforms in response to yellow vests

    He announced a "significant cut" in income tax by reducing government spending, but said the French would have to work harder to achieve this.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    The French aren't going to like that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @SandyRentool

    Google unity Mitford
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Charles said:

    @SandyRentool

    Google unity Mitford

    No need!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    "From Ann Widdecombe to Sargon of Akkad, the EU elections are starting to look like a dinner party from hell

    As Change UK candidates drop like flies, the remaining am-dram troupe of European parliament hopefuls look like a sorry bunch

    Sean O'Grady"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-party-ann-widdecombe-nigel-farage-change-uk-ukip-eu-elections-a8884336.html

    MEP hopefuls ALWAYS look like a sorry bunch. Hell, it's the only place Farage can get elected....
    Would Farage have been able to get elected as an MEP under the old system of huge FPTP constituencies? Probably not.
    IMO, the old constituencies would have split something like Labour 27, UKIP 21, Con 17, SNP 3, Plaid 2, in 2014, although there would have been very close three way splits.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Some bloke called Vince Cable is on QT tonight. Any idea who he is? He looks like one of the Wonga puppets and I imagine it is well past his bedtime.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Oh dear, Joe Biden seems to have gaffed by quoting the Declaration of Independence in his opening campaign email.

    How's that a gaffe ?
    "America is an idea. Based on a founding principle that all men are created equal".
    It’s not modern wording, but is the failure to include “/women/whatever else should be included” really a gaffe?

    Can’t people look beyond the trivial and focus on the important message he’s trying to highlight?
    We know the answer to that last question. The professionally offended will always be offended.
    Would it have been so hard to replace “men” worth “people” in that sentence?
    No, but nothing turns on it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    AndyJS said:

    Annunziata Rees-Mogg pretty much guaranteed to be elected as number one on the list in the East Midlands. That's the problem with closed lists: you can't choose which candidate you'd like to be at the top.

    There are Tory MEPs I'd be happy to see returned, and others I'd be dismayed at.

    Trouble is, you never know how far down the list your vote is going to count.
    You normally have a pretty good idea, although it is true that this election is more unpredictable than most. At least, unlike FPTnP, you have a good chance of your vote counting, whichever party you vote for.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    I'm going to guess "not very much".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006

    Charles said:

    @SandyRentool

    Google unity Mitford

    No need!
    Googling 'Unity Mitford Nazi orgy' is more fun.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited April 2019
    ‘Yep. They stink’

    And voters get a choice of candidates for their preferred party in first past the post Westminster elections?

    No you have one candidate per party and if you don’t like them tough.

    In the end 90 per cent of voters probably back parties not candidates anyway.

    We could move to STV as used in Ireland and for Scottish local elections - but we like our results counted quickly not a two to three day process involving 15 plus counts as we would probably need for 10 or 11 seat MEP regions!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    @SandyRentool

    Google unity Mitford

    No need!
    Googling 'Unity Mitford Nazi orgy' is more fun.
    NSFW?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    Extraordinarily poor.

    Given its been so crap in its delivery I'm sure the standards of construction need to be checked too. Money needs to be repaid to the government, people need to repay any bonuses, politicians need to be held to account.

    In addition the BBC need to ask themselves what their journalists were doing whilst they had unprecedented access etc.

    Over a period when NHS staff were being told there was no money we've splurged a fortune on Crossrail - if we'd known it was all going pear-shaped I'm sure we'd not have done so.

    What will of course happen is that we'll spend much more money, get a very poor result, and nobody will be to blame. Which is a shame in that its so easy to actually look at the money trail and compare that to whats happened.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    kinabalu said:

    They are pretty thin gruel, that is why the media are 'quiet' about them, as you put it. The Conservative Party doesn't have the issues at the top, as Labour does, nor the sheer number of cases, and it has mostly dealt with those cases which have arisen.

    Baroness Warsi does not agree with you.
    Baroness Warsi hates atheists.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited April 2019
    You may not have noticed, but the most pro-EU parties have either never been in government or last governed alone in 1915. So it is quite possible to be pro-EU and in favour of radical change. The status quo belongs to the Tories and Labour, in that order. The Leave fallacy appears to be 1. something must be done; 2. leaving the EU is something; 3. therefore we must leave the EU.

    Please give us one example of someone who effected change (doesn’t have to be radical) in the EU.

    Even truly ludicrous things (like the Parliament shuttling between Brussel and Strasbourg) have proved impossible to change.

    Even truly ludicrous appointments (like Juncker, well known to have undermined the EU with his tax treatment of US multinationals in Luxembourg) were impossible to stop.

    In a small way (on science policy), I tried to make a small change in the way the EU works. It failed.

    Your synopsis of the Leave fallacy is brutal. But your own fallacy:

    1. Something must be done, 2. The EU needs to change, 3. We can reform the EU.

    is actually still more ridiculous.

    There is huge inertia in even small organisations. In a large organisations like the EU, change will only happen with absolute catastrophe.

    Or, as Soros said, “If they don’t change, the European Union will go the way of the Soviet Union in 1991,”
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Well, whoever it turns out to be is going to be walking the plank....
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Oh dear, Joe Biden seems to have gaffed by quoting the Declaration of Independence in his opening campaign email.

    How's that a gaffe ?
    "America is an idea. Based on a founding principle that all men are created equal".
    He's the Democrats last chance (Along with perhaps Buttigieg... ) to save themselves from some hellish leftist abyss. I note the twitter SJWs have leapt all over this, that in itself doesn't make it a bad email though.
    Help us Obi Joe, you're our only hope
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Oh dear, Joe Biden seems to have gaffed by quoting the Declaration of Independence in his opening campaign email.

    How's that a gaffe ?
    "America is an idea. Based on a founding principle that all men are created equal".
    He's the Democrats last chance (Along with perhaps Buttigieg... ) to save themselves from some hellish leftist abyss. I note the twitter SJWs have leapt all over this, that in itself doesn't make it a bad email though.
    Help us Obi Joe, you're our only hope
    I'm still quite heavily invested in Gabbard. I may have made a mistake! (I must learn from this one! I've never really got a US Presidential election right - almost the best I can claim is flat on Trump)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    brendan16 said:

    ‘Yep. They stink’

    And voters get a choice of candidates for their preferred party in first past the post Westminster elections?

    No you have one candidate per party and if you don’t like them tough.

    In the end 90 per cent of voters probably back parties not candidates anyway.

    We could move to STV as used in Ireland and for Scottish local elections - but we like our results counted quickly not a two to three day process involving 15 plus counts as we would probably need for 10 or 11 seat MEP regions!

    Yeah, but no.

    Look at local elections. In multimember wards there are often dramatic difference in vote numbers between candidates from the same party.

    A move to multimember STV would mean voters could choose candidates who (a) worked hard, and (b) they agreed with.

    And this is true for local elections as well as European elections.

    Closed lists are - fundamentally - evil.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Please give us one example of someone who effected change (doesn’t have to be radical) in the EU.

    Arthur Cockfield effected the single market. Is that a big enough change for you?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Well, whoever it turns out to be is going to be walking the plank....
    The great thing about suggesting it might be Fox is that he's already gotten off far too lightly for similar offences.

    Not a man to place in sensitive meetings full stop.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited April 2019
    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    In what way?

    Obviously, Labour could stop choosing vacuous PPE graduates to be Labour leader, but they have done that and you are still not happy.

    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.

    They are competing against private US institutions that are massively more wealthy & comprise most of the rest of the list of top twenty research Universities.

    Oxford still has some work to do on equality. But, my bet is that Oxford University is nonetheless more diverse that the Parliamentary Labour Party. It certainly has a better record on anti-Semitism than the Labour party.

    In 2018, Oxford admitted more women than men. How’s the Labour party doing on gender equality? Have you get 50 per cent female MPs?

    Remember, Labour is behind the Tories, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens, Scottish Labour, even UKIP, in getting a female leader.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    edited April 2019

    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.
    (And UCLA)

    Edit to add, you can probably add Texas A&M too.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    rcs1000 said:

    brendan16 said:

    ‘Yep. They stink’

    And voters get a choice of candidates for their preferred party in first past the post Westminster elections?

    No you have one candidate per party and if you don’t like them tough.

    In the end 90 per cent of voters probably back parties not candidates anyway.

    We could move to STV as used in Ireland and for Scottish local elections - but we like our results counted quickly not a two to three day process involving 15 plus counts as we would probably need for 10 or 11 seat MEP regions!

    Yeah, but no.

    Look at local elections. In multimember wards there are often dramatic difference in vote numbers between candidates from the same party.

    A move to multimember STV would mean voters could choose candidates who (a) worked hard, and (b) they agreed with.

    And this is true for local elections as well as European elections.

    Closed lists are - fundamentally - evil.
    D'Hondt do this to me!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Vital that you position yourself at the front of the Bakerloo line train though. That makes it easy to get to the Jubilee, and also avoids your mind imploding due to over-exposure to the Bakerloo line platform announcers at Baker Street. Under no circumstances risk Oxford Circus, although less risky the announcers there can induce a catatonic lethargy from which there can be no escape.

    I believe that hardy souls may be trying to map these new perils. So far as I am aware none have returned.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited April 2019

    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    In what way?

    Obviously, Labour could stop choosing vacuous PPE graduates to be Labour leader, but they have done that and you are still not happy.

    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.

    They are competing against private US institutions that are massively more wealthy & comprise most of the rest of the list of top twenty research Universities.

    Oxford still has some work to do on equality. But, my bet is that Oxford University is nonetheless more diverse that the Parliamentary Labour Party. It certainly has a better record on anti-Semitism than the Labour party.

    In 2018, Oxford admitted more women than men. How’s the Labour party doing on gender equality? Have you get 50 per cent female MPs?

    Remember, Labour is behind the Tories, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens, Scottish Labour, even UKIP, in getting a female leader.
    "I was a modest, good-humoured boy. It is Oxford that has made me insufferable." (Max Beerbohm)

    You are allowed to attack Oxford if you went there. in all other cases the presumption that the admissions tutor at Keble or somewhere pissed on your chips thirty years ago is usually well founded.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Some bloke called Vince Cable is on QT tonight. Any idea who he is? He looks like one of the Wonga puppets and I imagine it is well past his bedtime.

    Well despite your opinion of him maybe listening to what he actually says and the way he says in in a world of JRM, Farage, Corbyn et al then it might just be the opportunity for you to listen to reason
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.
    (And UCLA)

    Edit to add, you can probably add Texas A&M too.
    Well, it depends which list you use, and which subject. Texas A&M has a huge medical research school.

    But, the general point that Cambridge, Oxford and Edinburgh are competing with universities with vastly more wealth is true. And winning.

    Cambridge, Oxford and Edinburgh are the Huddersfield Town, Fulham and Brighton & Hove Albion -- but they are taking on and beating the Manchester Citys and Liverpools.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    @SandyRentool

    Google unity Mitford

    No need!
    Googling 'Unity Mitford Nazi orgy' is more fun.
    NSFW?
    Och, you should be alright unless the Daily Mail is beyond the pale (which it is of course). A nugget to save you the trouble.

    'Late one night in pre-war Munich, a young English woman, dressed all in black and accompanied by six SS officers in full uniform, climbed the dark stairs to her apartment.
    Once inside she lit two large church candles either side of her bed, their glow revealing enormous swastika banners at its head and silver framed portraits of Adolf Hitler on side tables.
    After sliding off her boots and gauntlet-style gloves, she stepped out of her long black skirt and blindfolded herself with a Nazi armband before lying down, spread-eagled, on the bed.
    One man bound her hands and feet to its four corners while another, in what was obviously a familiar ritual, wound up the gramophone and dropped the needle on to a record of Horst-Wessel-Lied, the Nazi anthem.
    This was the cue for the other officers to remove their boots, belts and uniforms. Then, as the pounding marching song broke the silence, they took it in turns to enjoy the entirely willing object of their desire.'
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    rcs1000 said:

    brendan16 said:

    ‘Yep. They stink’

    And voters get a choice of candidates for their preferred party in first past the post Westminster elections?

    No you have one candidate per party and if you don’t like them tough.

    In the end 90 per cent of voters probably back parties not candidates anyway.

    We could move to STV as used in Ireland and for Scottish local elections - but we like our results counted quickly not a two to three day process involving 15 plus counts as we would probably need for 10 or 11 seat MEP regions!

    Yeah, but no.

    Look at local elections. In multimember wards there are often dramatic difference in vote numbers between candidates from the same party.

    A move to multimember STV would mean voters could choose candidates who (a) worked hard, and (b) they agreed with.

    And this is true for local elections as well as European elections.

    Closed lists are - fundamentally - evil.
    Wanting a quick result is a poor alternative to genuine democracy. Especially in local elections we need to find a way of single party dominated local authorities fo everybody’s good
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,714
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    In what way?

    Obviously, Labour could stop choosing vacuous PPE graduates to be Labour leader, but they have done that and you are still not happy.

    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.

    They are competing against private US institutions that are massively more wealthy & comprise most of the rest of the list of top twenty research Universities.

    Oxford still has some work to do on equality. But, my bet is that Oxford University is nonetheless more diverse that the Parliamentary Labour Party. It certainly has a better record on anti-Semitism than the Labour party.

    In 2018, Oxford admitted more women than men. How’s the Labour party doing on gender equality? Have you get 50 per cent female MPs?

    Remember, Labour is behind the Tories, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens, Scottish Labour, even UKIP, in getting a female leader.
    "I was a modest, good-humoured boy. It is Oxford that has made me insufferable." (Max Beerbohm)

    You are allowed to attack Oxford if you went there. in all other cases the presumption that the admissions tutor at Keble or somewhere pissed on your chips thirty years ago is usually well founded.
    I went to Oxford. Spent one night there, then came back.

    I can therefore attack Oxford by saying, whilst it is lovely, Cambridge is much better. ;)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Sorry everyone for mentioning Oxford. It sets people off.

    We as a country have been missold PPE.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    In what way?

    Obviously, Labour could stop choosing vacuous PPE graduates to be Labour leader, but they have done that and you are still not happy.

    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.

    They are competing against private US institutions that are massively more wealthy & comprise most of the rest of the list of top twenty research Universities.

    Oxford still has some work to do on equality. But, my bet is that Oxford University is nonetheless more diverse that the Parliamentary Labour Party. It certainly has a better record on anti-Semitism than the Labour party.

    In 2018, Oxford admitted more women than men. How’s the Labour party doing on gender equality? Have you get 50 per cent female MPs?

    Remember, Labour is behind the Tories, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens, Scottish Labour, even UKIP, in getting a female leader.
    "I was a modest, good-humoured boy. It is Oxford that has made me insufferable." (Max Beerbohm)

    You are allowed to attack Oxford if you went there. in all other cases the presumption that the admissions tutor at Keble or somewhere pissed on your chips thirty years ago is usually well founded.
    I expect it was Charterhouse that made Max insufferable.

    Beerbohm’s remark about the Welsh author WH Davies, “GB Shaw helped a lame dog over the stile” has the characteristic viciousness and snobbery associated with a good public school education.

    WH Davies, who was discovered by Shaw, was a cripple.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    Costain Skanska Joint Venture (CSJV).

    They are a highly aggressive commercial contractor and are years behind.

    Biggest problem we've had.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Jonathan said:

    Sorry everyone for mentioning Oxford. It sets people off.

    We as a country have been missold PPE.

    Will any PBers admit to holding an Oxford PPE degree? Or am I the only PPEer (Open) to grace the site?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
    Tottenham Court Road will open with the through route.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    stodge said:



    It really is only on this site (this mad, mad site) that absolutely everything is linked to Brexit.

    As someone who lives in East London and has travelled on one of the new trains from Romford to Liverpool Street I have a deal of sympathy for you and for all those who I know are working incredibly hard to ensure the new railway is safe and reliable when it opens.

    Too many large projects are set unrealistic deadlines and provided with inadequate resources both in the public and private sectors. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to be passed round but once it's been up and running a few years and everyone sees what a marvel it is no one will care.

    From the outside the scale of what has been done and what is still happening are daunting in the extreme. The sheer logistics of station construction in the middle of one of the busiest cities in the world takes the word challenge off to lunch with the in-laws.

    MY worry is no lessons will be learned - irrespective of an enquiry replete with hindsight the question for me is why, when it became clear the target dates were not achievable, individuals felt unable or unwilling to speak up. Is it a fear of culpability, blame, failure? Why do we resent failure, it happens, we all fail sometimes, the weakness is not learning from failure not in the failure itself.

    I see the usual political blame game is going on - Tories blaming Khan, Labour blaming Boris. I doubt either has much to account for in all honesty - the failures are multiple and endemic within the project but perhaps the fact no one wanted to be the first to admit their area was falling behind was the problem, We need to create environments where failure is accepted, understood and acted on without blame, finger pointing and destroying the careers and livelihoods of those concerned.
    Thanks Stodge.

    I think one big lesson is that you need an independent comprehensive assurance framework, with a line of reporting independent of the Executives to the Non-Executives.

    People always respond to the chain of command and where they get their pay and rations from; they are only willing to push the boat out so far if management are unwilling to listen to the advice.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497

    rcs1000 said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    My flat is two minutes walk from Tottenham Court Road tube station, so I'm super keen on it opening asap.
    Don't hold your breath!
    What have you done with my Crossrail, CR???

    [another SNAFU on the Central line right now]
    It's hard. Really hard.

    Most of the Executives who set up the supply chain and governance structures ten years ago that led to the problems with systems integration in 2017/2018 bailed out years ago. They've got off scot-free. The ones who were there last year - when the music stopped - have taken all the blame.

    There are a few others who haven't put their public reputations first and who do most of the hard work. They've stuck around out of a sense of duty to, and passion for, the Crossrail Project and are continuing to do everything they can to get the Project over the line despite all the obstacles. They've been working hard and diligently throughout, and with little thanks.

    One lesson I've learnt is that it turns out that cuts no ice. The ones who bailed were the savvy ones. If you are still there on Day One after a disastrous announcement you still absorb opprobrium and blame regardless of your position or efforts, and are believed to be culpable.

    But, hey-ho - it's still the right thing to do: I couldn't live with myself if I'd quit, and I won't. Not until it opens.
    If it's any consolation, I love reading about the history of engineering (especially civil engineering) and vast numbers of projects have gone over budget and been delivered late - yet those timing and budget failures are only a footnote in history as we continue using the infrastructure created a century or two later.

    There's a bigger picture.
    Thanks.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
    Tottenham Court Road will open with the through route.
    But the statement said that there will not be any through trains. They'll only run from Paddington.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    edited April 2019
  • Jonathan said:

    Last week, in a move to rid himself of his elitist reputation, he said he would close the elite Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA), a school which has trained several French presidents, including Mr Macron himself.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48059063

    Is it not a good thing to train the best and the brightest for roles in public service? Rather than close it, surely it would be more sensible to change the way in which candidates apply / are selected.

    Some institutions are simply not reformable. Just imagine how much better off we would be without Oxford.
    In what way?

    Obviously, Labour could stop choosing vacuous PPE graduates to be Labour leader, but they have done that and you are still not happy.

    It is worth remembering that the only public Universities in the top twenty research universities are (usually) Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh & Berkeley.

    They are competing against private US institutions that are massively more wealthy & comprise most of the rest of the list of top twenty research Universities.

    Oxford still has some work to do on equality. But, my bet is that Oxford University is nonetheless more diverse that the Parliamentary Labour Party. It certainly has a better record on anti-Semitism than the Labour party.

    In 2018, Oxford admitted more women than men. How’s the Labour party doing on gender equality? Have you get 50 per cent female MPs?

    Remember, Labour is behind the Tories, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens, Scottish Labour, even UKIP, in getting a female leader.
    Haven't you read the Daily Mail yet, Corbyn is going trans so another box is ticked on his way to becoming PM....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
    Tottenham Court Road will open with the through route.
    But the statement said that there will not be any through trains. They'll only run from Paddington.
    That can't be right, for they are already running the new Crossrail trains from Heathrow to Paddington. I should know, I've already done the route.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
    Tottenham Court Road will open with the through route.
    But the statement said that there will not be any through trains. They'll only run from Paddington.
    That can't be right, for they are already running the new Crossrail trains from Heathrow to Paddington. I should know, I've already done the route.
    From the statement:

    Notes to editors:

    When the Elizabeth line opens the railway will operate as follows:

    Paddington (Elizabeth line station) to Abbey Wood via central London
    Liverpool Street (main line station) to Shenfield
    Paddington (main line station) to Heathrow and Reading
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    edited April 2019

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
    Tottenham Court Road will open with the through route.
    But the statement said that there will not be any through trains. They'll only run from Paddington.
    That can't be right, for they are already running the new Crossrail trains from Heathrow to Paddington. I should know, I've already done the route.
    From the statement:

    Notes to editors:

    When the Elizabeth line opens the railway will operate as follows:

    Paddington (Elizabeth line station) to Abbey Wood via central London
    Liverpool Street (main line station) to Shenfield
    Paddington (main line station) to Heathrow and Reading
    So they will be going through central London, you'll just have to change trains at Paddington to get to Heathrow or Reading.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    nichomar said:

    Some bloke called Vince Cable is on QT tonight. Any idea who he is? He looks like one of the Wonga puppets and I imagine it is well past his bedtime.

    Well despite your opinion of him maybe listening to what he actually says and the way he says in in a world of JRM, Farage, Corbyn et al then it might just be the opportunity for you to listen to reason
    So Vince Cable isn't on then?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    edited April 2019

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Not quite the same as a through train from Southall though.
    Tottenham Court Road will open with the through route.
    But the statement said that there will not be any through trains. They'll only run from Paddington.
    That can't be right, for they are already running the new Crossrail trains from Heathrow to Paddington. I should know, I've already done the route.
    From the statement:

    Notes to editors:

    When the Elizabeth line opens the railway will operate as follows:

    Paddington (Elizabeth line station) to Abbey Wood via central London
    Liverpool Street (main line station) to Shenfield
    Paddington (main line station) to Heathrow and Reading
    Oh well, so the only brand new bit will be Paddington Low Level to Abbey Wood.

    So the bits they are still working on are Paddington Low Level to the portal near Westbourne Park, and Whitechapel to the portal to Stratford.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    rcs1000 said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    My flat is two minutes walk from Tottenham Court Road tube station, so I'm super keen on it opening asap.
    Don't hold your breath!
    What have you done with my Crossrail, CR???

    [another SNAFU on the Central line right now]
    It's hard. Really hard.

    Most of the Executives who set up the supply chain and governance structures ten years ago that led to the problems with systems integration in 2017/2018 bailed out years ago. They've got off scot-free. The ones who were there last year - when the music stopped - have taken all the blame.

    There are a few others who haven't put their public reputations first and who do most of the hard work. They've stuck around out of a sense of duty to, and passion for, the Crossrail Project and are continuing to do everything they can to get the Project over the line despite all the obstacles. They've been working hard and diligently throughout, and with little thanks.

    One lesson I've learnt is that it turns out that cuts no ice. The ones who bailed were the savvy ones. If you are still there on Day One after a disastrous announcement you still absorb opprobrium and blame regardless of your position or efforts, and are believed to be culpable.

    But, hey-ho - it's still the right thing to do: I couldn't live with myself if I'd quit, and I won't. Not until it opens.
    If it's any consolation, I love reading about the history of engineering (especially civil engineering) and vast numbers of projects have gone over budget and been delivered late - yet those timing and budget failures are only a footnote in history as we continue using the infrastructure created a century or two later.

    There's a bigger picture.
    Or of couse it could founder on a mess of incompatible systems, like the NHS computer system...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    If it's taking this long to sort out Crossrail, which century will see the opening of HS2?!
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    My flat is two minutes walk from Tottenham Court Road tube station, so I'm super keen on it opening asap.
    Don't hold your breath!
    What have you done with my Crossrail, CR???

    [another SNAFU on the Central line right now]
    It's hard. Really hard.

    Most of the Executives who set up the supply chain and governance structures ten years ago that led to the problems with systems integration in 2017/2018 bailed out years ago. They've got off scot-free. The ones who were there last year - when the music stopped - have taken all the blame.

    There are a few others who haven't put their public reputations first and who do most of the hard work. They've stuck around out of a sense of duty to, and passion for, the Crossrail Project and are continuing to do everything they can to get the Project over the line despite all the obstacles. They've been working hard and diligently throughout, and with little thanks.

    One lesson I've learnt is that it turns out that cuts no ice. The ones who bailed were the savvy ones. If you are still there on Day One after a disastrous announcement you still absorb opprobrium and blame regardless of your position or efforts, and are believed to be culpable.

    But, hey-ho - it's still the right thing to do: I couldn't live with myself if I'd quit, and I won't. Not until it opens.
    If it's any consolation, I love reading about the history of engineering (especially civil engineering) and vast numbers of projects have gone over budget and been delivered late - yet those timing and budget failures are only a footnote in history as we continue using the infrastructure created a century or two later.

    There's a bigger picture.
    Or of couse it could founder on a mess of incompatible systems, like the NHS computer system...
    Or a bridge across the Thames, or a few water cannon trucks...
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710

    If it's taking this long to sort out Crossrail, which century will see the opening of HS2?!

    It'll probably open just in time for the release of the personal home teleporter.
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    My flat is two minutes walk from Tottenham Court Road tube station, so I'm super keen on it opening asap.
    Don't hold your breath!
    What have you done with my Crossrail, CR???

    [another SNAFU on the Central line right now]
    It's hard. Really hard.

    Most of the Executives who set up the supply chain and governance structures ten years ago that led to the problems with systems integration in 2017/2018 bailed out years ago. They've got off scot-free. The ones who were there last year - when the music stopped - have taken all the blame.

    There are a few others who haven't put their public reputations first and who do most of the hard work. They've stuck around out of a sense of duty to, and passion for, the Crossrail Project and are continuing to do everything they can to get the Project over the line despite all the obstacles. They've been working hard and diligently throughout, and with little thanks.

    One lesson I've learnt is that it turns out that cuts no ice. The ones who bailed were the savvy ones. If you are still there on Day One after a disastrous announcement you still absorb opprobrium and blame regardless of your position or efforts, and are believed to be culpable.

    But, hey-ho - it's still the right thing to do: I couldn't live with myself if I'd quit, and I won't. Not until it opens.
    If it's any consolation, I love reading about the history of engineering (especially civil engineering) and vast numbers of projects have gone over budget and been delivered late - yet those timing and budget failures are only a footnote in history as we continue using the infrastructure created a century or two later.

    There's a bigger picture.
    Or of couse it could founder on a mess of incompatible systems, like the NHS computer system...
    Or a bridge across the Thames, or a few water cannon trucks...
    How much was the imposition of Universal Credit supposed to save?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Checkout Geoff Marshall on YouTube
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    If it's taking this long to sort out Crossrail, which century will see the opening of HS2?!

    It'll probably open just in time for the release of the personal home teleporter.
    I am going to guess it will be the Tesla Personal Home Teleporter....
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    rcs1000 said:

    brendan16 said:

    ‘Yep. They stink’

    And voters get a choice of candidates for their preferred party in first past the post Westminster elections?

    No you have one candidate per party and if you don’t like them tough.

    In the end 90 per cent of voters probably back parties not candidates anyway.

    We could move to STV as used in Ireland and for Scottish local elections - but we like our results counted quickly not a two to three day process involving 15 plus counts as we would probably need for 10 or 11 seat MEP regions!

    Yeah, but no.

    Look at local elections. In multimember wards there are often dramatic difference in vote numbers between candidates from the same party.

    A move to multimember STV would mean voters could choose candidates who (a) worked hard, and (b) they agreed with.

    And this is true for local elections as well as European elections.

    Closed lists are - fundamentally - evil.
    In Northern Ireland STV elections parties running multiple candidates will subdivide the area and ask voters to rank them in a particular order depending on where they live to equalise first preferences and get as many elected as possible. Most of the time voters go along with this unless one candidate is much better known/popular than the others and unbalances the ticket.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,161
    Yes, as Giuliani found out in 2008 leading in national polls is not great if you trail in Iowa and New Hampshire, he lost the former to Huckabee and the latter to McCain (the eventual GOP nominee) and never recovered. Thus I would say Sanders leading in New Hampshire and tied for the lead with Biden in New Hampshire gives Sanders the advantage at this stage
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    TGOHF said:
    There is no known cure for Labmainer Stupidity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,161
    edited April 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Brexit Deal plus CU remains the likeliest outcome, it will infuriate Tory hardline Leavers wanting No Deal and many of them will vote Brexit Party or UKIP in the European Parliament elections and it will infuriate Labour hardline Remainers wanting EUref2 many of whom will vote CUK, LD or Green in the European Parliament elections but it will be acceptable to the median voter I think
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    isam said:

    brendan16 said:

    Looks like the Crossrail announcement has already happened:

    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

    Opening between Sep 2020-Mar 2021. Bond Street likely to open even later.

    @Casino_Royale What are the problems at Bond Street?

    So even after a mega delay, still no trains from West of London through the core. Shambles.
    They will be running through Bond Street without stopping.
    Sounds like my attempts at shopping trips with the Good Lady Wifi.....
    You can just get off at Paddington and take the Bakerloo line three stops to Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road and take the central line two stops.

    A hassle with those large Primark bags I realise!
    Or take Bakerloo line, get of at Baker Street (two stops from Paddington), cross the platform for the Jubilee line for Bond Street (one stop).
    Checkout Geoff Marshall on YouTube
    Yes I have been to Upminster Bridge* :)

    (* along with all 674 other stations in the London Oystercard area!)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    If it's taking this long to sort out Crossrail, which century will see the opening of HS2?!

    It'll probably open just in time for the release of the personal home teleporter.
    I am going to guess it will be the Tesla Personal Home Teleporter....
    No Uber
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    My flat is two minutes walk from Tottenham Court Road tube station, so I'm super keen on it opening asap.
    Don't hold your breath!
    What have you done with my Crossrail, CR???

    [another SNAFU on the Central line right now]
    It's hard. Really hard.

    Most of the Executives who set up the supply chain and governance structures ten years ago that led to the problems with systems integration in 2017/2018 bailed out years ago. They've got off scot-free. The ones who were there last year - when the music stopped - have taken all the blame.

    There are a few others who haven't put their public reputations first and who do most of the hard work. They've stuck around out of a sense of duty to, and passion for, the Crossrail Project and are continuing to do everything they can to get the Project over the line despite all the obstacles. They've been working hard and diligently throughout, and with little thanks.

    One lesson I've learnt is that it turns out that cuts no ice. The ones who bailed were the savvy ones. If you are still there on Day One after a disastrous announcement you still absorb opprobrium and blame regardless of your position or efforts, and are believed to be culpable.

    But, hey-ho - it's still the right thing to do: I couldn't live with myself if I'd quit, and I won't. Not until it opens.
    If it's any consolation, I love reading about the history of engineering (especially civil engineering) and vast numbers of projects have gone over budget and been delivered late - yet those timing and budget failures are only a footnote in history as we continue using the infrastructure created a century or two later.

    There's a bigger picture.
    Or of couse it could founder on a mess of incompatible systems, like the NHS computer system...
    Or a bridge across the Thames, or a few water cannon trucks...
    Boris cancelled the Thames Gateway Bridge, in east London.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, as Giuliani found out in 2008 leading in national polls is not great if you trail in Iowa and New Hampshire, he lost the former to Huckabee and the latter to McCain (the eventual GOP nominee) and never recovered. Thus I would say Sanders leading in New Hampshire and tied for the lead with Biden in New Hampshire gives Sanders the advantage at this stage

    Interesting: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/california/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,714
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Expect a big announcement on Crossrail later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Main Board meeting right now.

    It will still carry a lot of risk in it (opening date) before anyone asks.

    My flat is two minutes walk from Tottenham Court Road tube station, so I'm super keen on it opening asap.
    Don't hold your breath!
    What have you done with my Crossrail, CR???

    [another SNAFU on the Central line right now]
    It's hard. Really hard.

    Most of the Executives who set up the supply chain and governance structures ten years ago that led to the problems with systems integration in 2017/2018 bailed out years ago. They've got off scot-free. The ones who were there last year - when the music stopped - have taken all the blame.

    There are a few others who haven't put their public reputations first and who do most of the hard work. They've stuck around out of a sense of duty to, and passion for, the Crossrail Project and are continuing to do everything they can to get the Project over the line despite all the obstacles. They've been working hard and diligently throughout, and with little thanks.

    One lesson I've learnt is that it turns out that cuts no ice. The ones who bailed were the savvy ones. If you are still there on Day One after a disastrous announcement you still absorb opprobrium and blame regardless of your position or efforts, and are believed to be culpable.

    But, hey-ho - it's still the right thing to do: I couldn't live with myself if I'd quit, and I won't. Not until it opens.
    If it's any consolation, I love reading about the history of engineering (especially civil engineering) and vast numbers of projects have gone over budget and been delivered late - yet those timing and budget failures are only a footnote in history as we continue using the infrastructure created a century or two later.

    There's a bigger picture.
    Or of couse it could founder on a mess of incompatible systems, like the NHS computer system...
    Isn't that part of the problem - they're trying to get three disparate signalling systems integrated so they work properly and safely.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    If it's taking this long to sort out Crossrail, which century will see the opening of HS2?!

    In the year 2525.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,161
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm waiting for Booty-gig to assure Americans that his election "would guarantee there'd be no pussy-grabber in the White House....."

    It may surprise you but the Christian right (albeit of the Democrats) are his biggest supporters. They are more likely to go to church and listen to Conservative radio than supporters of any other candidate.
    I have a theory (bear with me).

    Democrats who are identifiably religious (and specifically Christian) do better.

    Jimmy Carter: religious
    Bill Clinton: ostensibly religious
    Barack Obama: religious

    Hillary Clinton: gave up pretending to be religious
    John Kerry: not religious that I'm aware of
    Al Gore: religious, but only about climate change

    Buttig... Mayor Pete is genuinely religious. He talks the language of faith in a way that none of the other candidates do. In theory being a gay man should sink him with Evangelicals... but speaking the right language matters, and I think he'll do extremely well with religious Democrats. And were he nominee, he might even persuade a few Religious Republicans to stay home. (It's harder to paint him as the Anti-Christ that must be stopped.)

    Buttigieg is an Anglican, by definition that does not make him overtly religious.

    Kerry is Catholic but not strongly so
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Got to love a guy trying to market "Cumming, the Fragrance".....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,161
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    He's the Democrats last chance (Along with perhaps Buttigieg... ) to save themselves from some hellish leftist abyss. I note the twitter SJWs have leapt all over this, that in itself doesn't make it a bad email though.

    Your definition of leftism is quite American. Fair enough, we are talking US politics, but I just thought I would point this out. Take Elizabeth Warren, for example, a flag-bearer on the left of the Democrats. She would probably be defecting from Labour to TIG if she were over here. (And would make a much better leader than Heidi Allen, IMO, but that is by the by.) And the late sometimes great sometimes a noodle Christopher Hitchens started out left but by his later years was if anything right of centre on many issues by our standards, a touch gammony even, but still considered a leftie in America.
    Elizabeth Warren could be preachy LD, she is not right enough economically or Blairite enough on international affairs to be CUK
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,161
    nico67 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "UK, Kantar Public poll:

    European Union Membership Referendum

    Remain: 55% (+1)
    Leave: 45% (-1)

    +/- vs. 4-8 April

    Fieldwork: 19 February-4 March 2019
    Sample Size: ~1,000"

    Not a single poll in over 18 months has had Leave ahead . You can see why Leavers don’t want another EU referendum.
    Not true, Deltapoll has had Leave ahead, YouGov had Leave with No Deal, Leave with May's Deal and Leave but stay in SM and CU combined ahead of Remain. YouGov also had No Deal preferred to Revoke outside of London and Scotland
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    TGOHF said:
    There is no known cure for Labmainer Stupidity.
    Can't see Adonis having any chance of getting a second Labour SW seat.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Does he actually believe what he wrote? I doubt it very much.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Sounds like something straight out of one of those hostage videos. Did they make him stand their with todays newspapers before he signed it?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    It's becoming a bit like football, right? Everyone has their plucky wee second team to support when not watching their main team? Is that how it's going?
This discussion has been closed.