According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Eldest Granddaughter's uncle, my Eldest Son benefitted from the Erasmus scheme, too. My children and grandchildren have been encouraged to see that their country is bigger than 'just' the UK.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
But it's been ok to enforce it on everyone else? There are many sane arguments for staying in the EU, but that ain't one of them.
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared “not Brexit”.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They are contented, prosperprous countries.
Many leavers (such as myself) would have been prepared to stay in a reformed EU.
No evidence has been presented that the EU is capable of Reform. The Remainers by and large do not even see that reform of the EU is urgently needed.
However, I would be happy with Remain, provided we then get Corbyn as PM.
Let Remainers pay for their hobbyhorse. Let’s see massive transfers of wealth from the prosperous parts of London and the South East to the forgotten people in Stoke or Sunderland or South Wales.
What I am not happy about is cancelling Brexit, and continuing on the same merry unequal path, in which the benefits of the EU are shared by the highly affluent in a few parts of the country.
Remain, but let the Remainers pay for it.
How many grants have been made by the EU to Welsh hill farmers?
Just asking, like!
Well, of course, we have much to be grateful for in Wales.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
But it's been ok to enforce it on everyone else? There are many sane arguments for staying in the EU, but that ain't one of them.
It's quite surprising, the of number younger relatives I have to who have worked, or are working, in the EU. Or who want to be able to.
To be fair, one son did part of his degree in Texas.
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared “not Brexit”.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They are contented, prosperprous countries.
Many leavers (such as myself) would have been prepared to stay in a reformed EU.
No evidence has been presented that the EU is capable of Reform. The Remainers by and large do not even see that reform of the EU is urgently needed.
However, I would be happy with Remain, provided we then get Corbyn as PM.
Let Remainers pay for their hobbyhorse. Let’s see massive transfers of wealth from the prosperous parts of London and the South East to the forgotten people in Stoke or Sunderland or South Wales.
What I am not happy about is cancelling Brexit, and continuing on the same merry unequal path, in which the benefits of the EU are shared by the highly affluent in a few parts of the country.
Remain, but let the Remainers pay for it.
How many grants have been made by the EU to Welsh hill farmers?
Just asking, like!
Well, of course, we have much to be grateful for in Wales.
It'd be working a lot less for Wales without the EU. Have a look at what's happening in Cornwall.
Lessons for Remainers, Published in Ten Volumes by Basic Books.
Volume 1, page 1, first sentence.
You need to offer a positive vision for Remain.
You can’t tell a country that is now poorer than parts of Latvia or Lithuania that they are damned lucky to be in the EU. And if they leave, things will be worse.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Nine to seven with the chief whip in the room throwing daggers at the members?
Ringing endorsement in Theresa May. Not.
Well exactly it bears out what I said below. She is hanging on by her fingertips - the ERG is irrelevant in this. The mainstream of the party now thinks she has to go. The only question is when.
Zzzz.
That has been the case since forever. The Tory Party can’t even knife their leader properly these days. It really is laughable.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Yes an automatic right has been lost . Something many valued . I really couldn’t give a fig if Leavers wanted to flush their rights down the toilet but when those that didn’t also lose out then I’ll be damned if I’m going to ever say fine no problem . Thankfully the extension now gives me time to finalize my plans to escape before Brits become second class citizens on their own continent !
Brexit is no longer about the pros and cons of Leaving the EU, it is more like an initiation test that MPs must pass before the public* will trust them.
Like most initiation tests, the actual act may seem pointless or even slightly harmful to the person having to do it, but if they don't, they will never get the respect of the group.
*some of
No, almost all of I'd suggest...
Opinion polls* strongly suggest that you’re wrong about that. A very large number of people would be appalled if it is done.
*on hypotheticals such as this have been totally inaccurate for the last 4 UK elections, but they
Are you suggesting that there aren’t many millions of people who would be appalled if Brexit is done? Because there is plenty of non-polling evidence to that effect too. And the polls haven’t been inaccurate to that extent.
I think they'd be some who were a bit upset that they lost, but they'd get over it. How can they be appalled when there was a vote and they lost by a million or so?
Several million daft old bats have convinced themselves, in defiance of all common sense and logic, that only no deal Brexit is true Brexit. People aren’t always rational.
It isn't several million, it's a few dozen in the HofC. .
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
But it's been ok to enforce it on everyone else? There are many sane arguments for staying in the EU, but that ain't one of them.
It's quite surprising, the of number younger relatives I have to who have worked, or are working, in the EU. Or who want to be able to.
To be fair, one son did part of his degree in Texas.
That hasn't happened in my clan- ours have tended to go to Australia and New Zealand, with one now married to a Texan. It hasn't been a particularly big thing withe the offspring of friends and work colleagues either. Must be a class thing.
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared “not Brexit”.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They are contented, prosperprous countries.
Many leavers (such as myself) would have been prepared to stay in a reformed EU.
No evidence has been presented that the EU is capable of Reform. The Remainers by and large do not even see that reform of the EU is urgently needed.
However, I would be happy with Remain, provided we then get Corbyn as PM.
Let Remainers pay for their hobbyhorse. Let’s see massive transfers of wealth from the prosperous parts of London and the South East to the forgotten people in Stoke or Sunderland or South Wales.
What I am not happy about is cancelling Brexit, and continuing on the same merry unequal path, in which the benefits of the EU are shared by the highly affluent in a few parts of the country.
Remain, but let the Remainers pay for it.
How many grants have been made by the EU to Welsh hill farmers?
Just asking, like!
Well, of course, we have much to be grateful for in Wales.
It'd be working a lot less for Wales without the EU. Have a look at what's happening in Cornwall.
Lessons for Remainers, Published in Ten Volumes by Basic Books.
Volume 1, page 1, first sentence.
You need to offer a positive vision for Remain.
You can’t tell a part of the country that is now poorer than parts of Latvia or Lithuania that they are damned lucky to be in the EU. And if they leave, things will be worse.
Point taken. However, the lesson to be learned is not to Leave the EU, but to use it. We've had a Government, or at least a governing party, largely hostile to the EU for several years. The interesting thing about your map is the benefits that the Irish have been able to obtain. Perhaps that's an argument for Plaid Cymru!
"According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers."
"Back in Britain, many on the Left and those in the Remain camp do not engage with this evidence because it undermines the concerted effort to portray the vote for Brexit as a proxy for Right-wing extremism on the march, or an indicator for their belief that the country is sliding into the same conditions that gave rise to Adolf Hitler. I suspect that their stronger desire to disassociate from the other camp helps to explain why many so Remainers have been so quick to ‘catastrophise’ about voters with whom they probably have very little interaction with. Catastrophising, as Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt note in their recent book The Coddling of the American Mind, is what we do when we believe that something is far worse than it is, usually after an event or moment has challenged our values and beliefs."
"The irony is that liberal catastrophisers engage in exactly the same behaviour that they associate with populists and Right-wing extremists; they overgeneralise; they label others; they engage in Manichean ‘good-versus-bad’ dichotomous thinking; they lose perspective; and they become obsessed with apocalyptic-style scenarios. Rather than assessing things rationally, and engaging with those who hold different points of view, they cling to comfort blankets, such as catastrophising, distancing and emotional reasoning."
It's the absence of rational explanation for why we should leave the EU that is the problem. The only articulation of the Brexit case we hear nowadays is some variant of 'we had a vote three years ago, and have to honour the result no matter how catastrophic the consequences for the country'.
There has not been a rational articulation of the case for Remain.
There was an opportunity to do that in the Referendum, and the Remainers oat”.
Err. How about, we'll be able to continue trading with other democratic countries who share our values?
Err ... Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They manage to trade with other democratic countries that share our values.
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared "not Brexit".
Lol, shows the absurdity. It may be those arrangements are not good or not right for us, but to not be Brexit?
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
Although the probability is that anyone who wanted to go would be allowed. But there is a paperwork exercise
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared “not Brexit”.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They are contented, prosperprous countries.
Many leavers (such as myself) would have been prepared to stay in a reformed EU.
No evidence has been presented that the EU is capable of Reform. The Remainers by and large do not even see that reform of the EU is urgently needed.
However, I would be happy with Remain, provided we then get Corbyn as PM.
Let Remainers pay for their hobbyhorse. Let’s see massive transfers of wealth from the prosperous parts of London and the South East to the forgotten people in Stoke or Sunderland or South Wales.
What I am not happy about is cancelling Brexit, and continuing on the same merry unequal path, in which the benefits of the EU are shared by the highly affluent in a few parts of the country.
Remain, but let the Remainers pay for it.
How many grants have been made by the EU to Welsh hill farmers?
Just asking, like!
Well, of course, we have much to be grateful for in Wales.
It'd be working a lot less for Wales without the EU. Have a look at what's happening in Cornwall.
Lessons for Remainers, Published in Ten Volumes by Basic Books.
Volume 1, page 1, first sentence.
You need to offer a positive vision for Remain.
You can’t tell a part of the country that is now poorer than parts of Latvia or Lithuania that they are damned lucky to be in the EU. And if they leave, things will be worse.
Point taken. However, the lesson to be learned is not to Leave the EU, but to use it. We've had a Government, or at least a governing party, largely hostile to the EU for several years. The interesting thing about your map is the benefits that the Irish have been able to obtain. Perhaps that's an argument for Plaid Cymru!
It is certainly an argument for Welsh independence.
What's incredible about it? Does he think he should not have been allowed to witness? Why not? It's not like Tory MPs are shy about doing what they want no matter any pressure. Is the implication those voting are cowards?
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
But it's been ok to enforce it on everyone else? There are many sane arguments for staying in the EU, but that ain't one of them.
It's quite surprising, the of number younger relatives I have to who have worked, or are working, in the EU. Or who want to be able to.
To be fair, one son did part of his degree in Texas.
That hasn't happened in my clan- ours have tended to go to Australia and New Zealand, with one now married to a Texan. It hasn't been a particularly big thing withe the offspring of friends and work colleagues either. Must be a class thing.
Could be; my paternal grandfather was a coalminer, and his son became a teacher.
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared “not Brexit”.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They are contented, prosperprous countries.
Many leavers (such as myself) would have been prepared to stay in a reformed EU.
No evidence has been presented that the EU is capable of Reform. The Remainers by and large do not even see that reform of the EU is urgently needed.
However, I would be happy with Remain, provided we then get Corbyn as PM.
Let Remainers pay for their hobbyhorse. Let’s see massive transfers of wealth from the prosperous parts of London and the South East to the forgotten people in Stoke or Sunderland or South Wales.
What I am not happy about is cancelling Brexit, and continuing on the same merry unequal path, in which the benefits of the EU are shared by the highly affluent in a few parts of the country.
Remain, but let the Remainers pay for it.
How many grants have been made by the EU to Welsh hill farmers?
Just asking, like!
Well, of course, we have much to be grateful for in Wales.
It'd be working a lot less for Wales without the EU. Have a look at what's happening in Cornwall.
Lessons for Remainers, Published in Ten Volumes by Basic Books.
Volume 1, page 1, first sentence.
You need to offer a positive vision for Remain.
You can’t tell a part of the country that is now poorer than parts of Latvia or Lithuania that they are damned lucky to be in the EU. And if they leave, things will be worse.
Point taken. However, the lesson to be learned is not to Leave the EU, but to use it. We've had a Government, or at least a governing party, largely hostile to the EU for several years. The interesting thing about your map is the benefits that the Irish have been able to obtain. Perhaps that's an argument for Plaid Cymru!
It is certainly an argument for Welsh independence.
I agree; suggest there's a strong argument for rebalancing of the politics of SE Wales.
Nine to seven with the chief whip in the room throwing daggers at the members?
Ringing endorsement in Theresa May. Not.
Well exactly it bears out what I said below. She is hanging on by her fingertips - the ERG is irrelevant in this. The mainstream of the party now thinks she has to go. The only question is when.
And? I dont think even May has problem with that, it's not a disaster for her to go when she's said she will once x happens anyway. The disaster will be for us if x or some other plan does not happen and for her if she goes before the same.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
I’ve never understood why this is such a big deal.
The number of people I know in both my social and professional circle who exercise it, versus occasionally go on holiday and for business, is minuscule and I know more who do so under “non EU” rules in Canada, the US and Australia.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
But it's been ok to enforce it on everyone else? There are many sane arguments for staying in the EU, but that ain't one of them.
It's quite surprising, the of number younger relatives I have to who have worked, or are working, in the EU. Or who want to be able to.
To be fair, one son did part of his degree in Texas.
That hasn't happened in my clan- ours have tended to go to Australia and New Zealand, with one now married to a Texan. It hasn't been a particularly big thing withe the offspring of friends and work colleagues either. Must be a class thing.
Could be; my paternal grandfather was a coalminer, and his son became a teacher.
I didn't mean it as that sounded!.I think you'r a retired pharmacist? So university educated and a professional career. We come from a long line of labourers, factory workers and soldiers. My kids were the first in our family to go to university, and the EU hasn't been a big thing for them- until now. My youngest is heading off to the US next month to try his luck, middle and eldest off to visit relatives in Oz later this year. I don't expect all 3 of them back to live if they can help it!
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
I’ve never understood why this is such a big deal.
The number of people I know in both my social and professional circle who exercise it, versus occasionally go on holiday and for business, is minuscule and I know more who do so under “non EU” rules in Canada, the US and Australia.
Ditto. There aren't really that many job opportunities in countries where you can't speak the language.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
British people used to work and live in European countries before 1972 as far as I know.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Pretty sure they will still be able to do that after Brexit.
Plugging that into Electoral Calculus (treating Brexit as UKIP) you get:
Lab 310 Con 234 Lib Dems 29 SNP 53 Brexit 1 PC 3 Green 1
Interestingly, if you add UKIP and Brexit, and add the Lib Dems and CHUK, the only change to the prediction is six fewer Conservative seats and six more Lib Dems.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
I’m pretty confident I could own and wear the fact I voted Leave and that it wouldn’t be obstacle to dating if I were still in my 20s. Just because many young women haven’t necessarily heard a rational Leave argument and have strong prejudgements about it doesn’t mean they won’t listen to one. And nor would it be a dealbreaker if they respect the fact you hold your ground and you otherwise click and find each other attractive, empathetic and interesting. People just, generally, aren’t that unreasonable. And, if they are, you probably don’t want to be dating them anyway.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
I’m pretty confident I could own and wear the fact I voted Leave and that it wouldn’t be obstacle to dating if I were still in my 20s. Just because many young women haven’t necessarily heard a rational Leave argument and have strong prejudgements about it doesn’t mean they won’t listen to one. And nor would it be a dealbreaker if they respect the fact you hold your ground and you otherwise click and find each other attractive, empathetic and interesting. People just, generally, aren’t that unreasonable. And, if they are, you probably don’t want to be dating them anyway.
Frame.
Lots of women on tinder state "If you voted Leave don't swipe right" or words to that effect
On topic, I suspect the outcome of the 1922 discussion today would have been different had there been a clear king over the water with electoral appeal.
As it would probably be Boris, Hunt or Javid then they’ve decided the rules are clear that nurse must be stuck with.
The only people that can be happy with that poll are the Greens and Brexit
Tories - shit! Lab - 32% when the Tories are dead!!?? Brexit - happy LibDems - Oh good, a boost Chukka - SDP without the plan Greens - Yippee, and bring on the schoolgirls. Ukip - we're hoping to finally get 4-5 votes nationwide based on our membership
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
I’ve never understood why this is such a big deal.
The number of people I know in both my social and professional circle who exercise it, versus occasionally go on holiday and for business, is minuscule and I know more who do so under “non EU” rules in Canada, the US and Australia.
Ditto. There aren't really that many job opportunities in countries where you can't speak the language.
Quite so. And, to be fair, I can’t.
I guess I’d be most likely to work somewhere like the Netherlands, Poland or Latvia where speaking only English isn’t necessarily an issue.
But, I’m not exactly chomping at the bit to grasp the myriad of opportunities that don’t exist there.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
But it's been ok to enforce it on everyone else? There are many sane arguments for staying in the EU, but that ain't one of them.
It's quite surprising, the of number younger relatives I have to who have worked, or are working, in the EU. Or who want to be able to.
To be fair, one son did part of his degree in Texas.
That hasn't happened in my clan- ours have tended to go to Australia and New Zealand, with one now married to a Texan. It hasn't been a particularly big thing withe the offspring of friends and work colleagues either. Must be a class thing.
Could be; my paternal grandfather was a coalminer, and his son became a teacher.
I didn't mean it as that sounded!.I think you'r a retired pharmacist? So university educated and a professional career. We come from a long line of labourers, factory workers and soldiers. My kids were the first in our family to go to university, and the EU hasn't been a big thing for them- until now. My youngest is heading off to the US next month to try his luck, middle and eldest off to visit relatives in Oz later this year. I don't expect all 3 of them back to live if they can help it!
No worries. And you're right about me, although when I qualified it wasn't necessarily a university course. TBH, having looked at my family tree I'd say you're about a generation behind me on the ladder! One grandfather a coalminer, the other a farmer. Wife's family, all from Lancashire, 'worked in the weaving trade' although her father got himself a white collar job. Some of my extended family are now in NZ, some in Aus. I think alot of what we now call white-collar jobs would, once upon a time, have been 'learned' by trade training.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
You get people like that, sure.
You also get other older people who are interested in what the young think and admit they are still always learning new things themselves.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
I’m pretty confident I could own and wear the fact I voted Leave and that it wouldn’t be obstacle to dating if I were still in my 20s. Just because many young women haven’t necessarily heard a rational Leave argument and have strong prejudgements about it doesn’t mean they won’t listen to one. And nor would it be a dealbreaker if they respect the fact you hold your ground and you otherwise click and find each other attractive, empathetic and interesting. People just, generally, aren’t that unreasonable. And, if they are, you probably don’t want to be dating them anyway.
Frame.
Lots of women on tinder state "If you voted Leave don't swipe right" or words to that effect
So I’ve heard, but I doubt it’s that many. And, even if it was, it wouldn’t necessarily stop me from doing so.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
I’m pretty confident I could own and wear the fact I voted Leave and that it wouldn’t be obstacle to dating if I were still in my 20s. Just because many young women haven’t necessarily heard a rational Leave argument and have strong prejudgements about it doesn’t mean they won’t listen to one. And nor would it be a dealbreaker if they respect the fact you hold your ground and you otherwise click and find each other attractive, empathetic and interesting. People just, generally, aren’t that unreasonable. And, if they are, you probably don’t want to be dating them anyway.
Frame.
Lots of women on tinder state "If you voted Leave don't swipe right" or words to that effect
I know a woman in her early thirties week who is very right wing and found online dating very difficult as a result
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
I'm 80, and I'm always willing to listen.
As long as your hearing aid batteries are fully charged?
Plugging that into Electoral Calculus (treating Brexit as UKIP) you get:
Lab 310 Con 234 Lib Dems 29 SNP 53 Brexit 1 PC 3 Green 1
Interestingly, if you add UKIP and Brexit, and add the Lib Dems and CHUK, the only change to the prediction is six fewer Conservative seats and six more Lib Dems.
In reality I would not expect SNP to exceed 40 with Labour on circa 320.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Boris may yet become PM. The 1922 may simply be taking the view that there are unintended consequences to changing the leadership rules, like becoming Australian politics or something.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
young people had the lowest turnout in the EUref its pointless demanding "rights" if you dont use them
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
There have been some interesting polls on this i.e. are remain voters really more open minded and tolerant. Perhaps not!
A you gov poll from January suggested for example that
Only 9% of Leavers would mind if a relative married someone who was a strong supporter of remaining in the EU
But 37% of Remainers would mind if a relative married a leaver
Its a bit limiting to rule out half the country as a potential life partner because of how they voted in a referendum on membership of an international body.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
I'd leave it as simple as most of us, young and old, are unreasonable gits.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
I’ve never understood why this is such a big deal.
The number of people I know in both my social and professional circle who exercise it, versus occasionally go on holiday and for business, is minuscule and I know more who do so under “non EU” rules in Canada, the US and Australia.
Ditto. There aren't really that many job opportunities in countries where you can't speak the language.
Quite so. And, to be fair, I can’t.
I guess I’d be most likely to work somewhere like the Netherlands, Poland or Latvia where speaking only English isn’t necessarily an issue.
But, I’m not exactly chomping at the bit to grasp the myriad of opportunities that don’t exist there.
I've known a very small number of engineers who've worked in the Netherlands in English speaking offices. They all came home after a year or two.
Its pretty sad if people are so close minded they wont date somebody based on a particular vote. Mrs U and I have regularly voted for different political parties.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
You get people like that, sure.
You also get other older people who are interested in what the young think and admit they are still always learning new things themselves.
In general, I think peoples' interpersonal skills will be at their best between 40 and 60. You've worked out by then that people who disagree with you may still be good people, without getting too set in your ways.
Plugging that into Electoral Calculus (treating Brexit as UKIP) you get:
Lab 310 Con 234 Lib Dems 29 SNP 53 Brexit 1 PC 3 Green 1
Interestingly, if you add UKIP and Brexit, and add the Lib Dems and CHUK, the only change to the prediction is six fewer Conservative seats and six more Lib Dems.
In reality I would not expect SNP to exceed 40 with Labour on circa 320.
Why not? Labour would have lost a fifth of their vote from the last election.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
I'd leave it as simple as most of us, young and old, are unreasonable gits.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
I'm 80, and I'm always willing to listen.
As long as your hearing aid batteries are fully charged?
LOL; sight and hearing quite good; it's the legs that weren't working as well. Although they're better now!
On topic, I suspect the outcome of the 1922 discussion today would have been different had there been a clear king over the water with electoral appeal.
As it would probably be Boris, Hunt or Javid then they’ve decided the rules are clear that nurse must be stuck with.
They could be doing a ManU, get all the tough fixtures out of the way and then change the boss.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Boris may yet become PM. The 1922 may simply be taking the view that there are unintended consequences to changing the leadership rules, like becoming Australian politics or something.
I think you hold the 1922 Committee in higher esteem than I do. Their behaviour since the last GE doesn’t really suggest, to me anyway, that rational thought and rational action are their strong suits.
They have arrangements with the EU that have been declared “not Brexit”.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. They are contented, prosperprous countries.
Many leavers (such as myself) would have been prepared to stay in a reformed EU.
No evidence has been presented that the EU is capable of Reform. The Remainers by and large do not even see that reform of the EU is urgently needed.
However, I would be happy with Remain, provided we then get Corbyn as PM.
Let Remainers pay for their hobbyhorse. Let’s see massive transfers of wealth from the prosperous parts of London and the South East to the forgotten people in Stoke or Sunderland or South Wales.
What I am not happy about is cancelling Brexit, and continuing on the same merry unequal path, in which the benefits of the EU are shared by the highly affluent in a few parts of the country.
Remain, but let the Remainers pay for it.
How many grants have been made by the EU to Welsh hill farmers?
Just asking, like!
Well, of course, we have much to be grateful for in Wales.
It'd be working a lot less for Wales without the EU. Have a look at what's happening in Cornwall.
Lessons for Remainers, Published in Ten Volumes by Basic Books.
Volume 1, page 1, first sentence.
You need to offer a positive vision for Remain.
You can’t tell a part of the country that is now poorer than parts of Latvia or Lithuania that they are damned lucky to be in the EU. And if they leave, things will be worse.
Point taken. However, the lesson to be learned is not to Leave the EU, but to use it. We've had a Government, or at least a governing party, largely hostile to the EU for several years. The interesting thing about your map is the benefits that the Irish have been able to obtain. Perhaps that's an argument for Plaid Cymru!
parasitic tax policies which feed off your neightbours ?
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
I think they'd almost perhaps agree.
How do you break and re-mould the Tory party safely whilst the antichrist is arseing about in the wings with every indication he has the key to the door?
I think they have to just let it go. The people will vote how they wish. Protecting the people from the people is an option that sort of has ceased to exist. The Tory party has long done that and in an extraordinarily benign fashion.
Its pretty sad if people are so close minded they wont date somebody based on a particular vote. Mrs U and I have regularly voted for different political parties.
My wife and I voted differently over Brexit, but we're still together. So did my mother and father. Not everything is about politics.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
Surely for maximum irony we need the situation where the 1922 Committee change the rules to allow for a new VONC in May (the leader not the month, or maybe both!) and then she still wins it anyway.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
That less ideology and moderation appears to disappear on retirement and the removal of income risk for many.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
The 'V' word. Hurrah!
If the cap fits.....
It's a beret comrade. With a red star on the front.
Its pretty sad if people are so close minded they wont date somebody based on a particular vote. Mrs U and I have regularly voted for different political parties.
My wife and I voted differently over Brexit, but we're still together. So did my mother and father. Not everything is about politics.
I talked both my wife and nephew around from Remain to Leave.
I also managed to do so with one of my closest friends, and failed with another.
There is only one friend I can think of with whom it’s been an issue. Otherwise all of our relationships are functioning as normal.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
Always? Labour inherited a mess from the Tories in 1964 for which outgoing Tory Chancellor - Reginald Maudling - apologised to his Labour successor. When Wilson's Government left office in June 1970 , it bequeathed both a strong Balance of Payments surplus and a Budget Surplus to Ted Heath. No outgoing Tory Government has managed to do either! Indeed , in March 1974 Labour was faced with the 3-Day Week - 13.5% inflation - a big Balance of Payments Deficit and weak Public Finances - a scenario far worse than inherited by Thatcher in May 1979.
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
what a sad family
No what’s sad is removing the rights of the younger generation especially to live and work in the EU and to enforce a future on them they don’t want .
Does leaving the EU remove people's right to live and work there?
Er, yes!
I’ve never understood why this is such a big deal.
The number of people I know in both my social and professional circle who exercise it, versus occasionally go on holiday and for business, is minuscule and I know more who do so under “non EU” rules in Canada, the US and Australia.
Ditto. There aren't really that many job opportunities in countries where you can't speak the language.
Quite so. And, to be fair, I can’t.
I guess I’d be most likely to work somewhere like the Netherlands, Poland or Latvia where speaking only English isn’t necessarily an issue.
But, I’m not exactly chomping at the bit to grasp the myriad of opportunities that don’t exist there.
I've known a very small number of engineers who've worked in the Netherlands in English speaking offices. They all came home after a year or two.
I have lived and worked in 7 different countries and I would say that your associates have not passed through the change curve. I have experienced it and it can be tough.
Its pretty sad if people are so close minded they wont date somebody based on a particular vote. Mrs U and I have regularly voted for different political parties.
My wife and I voted differently over Brexit, but we're still together. So did my mother and father. Not everything is about politics.
My wife and I have voted differently on occasion. I think. I've never asked her how she's voted. Just said I hoped. And we've been married 57 years. Can't say we've never had a cross word though!
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
You get people like that, sure.
You also get other older people who are interested in what the young think and admit they are still always learning new things themselves.
In general, I think peoples' interpersonal skills will be at their best between 40 and 60. You've worked out by then that people who disagree with you may still be good people, without getting too set in your ways.
I think you can stay pretty sharp, health permitting, up until retirement.
You are then at a higher risk of becoming set in your ways, if only because you’re not exposed daily to a wide variety of working colleagues of different ages in the real economy who may all hold different opinions and more likely to mix with your own (now retired) peer group.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
as you get older, you have less time to live so you appreciate what time you have
when you hit your later years you see that theres nothing really new in human behaviour and watching some 20 year old naiively claiming there is is just boring. You also know whats important to you and want to spend your time on that rather than the latestephemeral trend
pointless explaining this to you I know but when youre nearing 60 you'll understand your dad maybe had a point.
Plugging that into Electoral Calculus (treating Brexit as UKIP) you get:
Lab 310 Con 234 Lib Dems 29 SNP 53 Brexit 1 PC 3 Green 1
Interestingly, if you add UKIP and Brexit, and add the Lib Dems and CHUK, the only change to the prediction is six fewer Conservative seats and six more Lib Dems.
In reality I would not expect SNP to exceed 40 with Labour on circa 320.
Why not? Labour would have lost a fifth of their vote from the last election.
If Labour were to be 8% ahead of the Tories across GB, I would expect that to impact in Scotland. The pro-Union vote would likely swing behind Labour plus gains from SNP in serious expectation of 'getting the Tories out'.
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
I would say that (in the absence of extensive personal experience) the young will tend to base their political opinions more on theory and what they’ve read/been educated upon and/or be influenced by those in the peer group or in their authority whom they respect.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
I have to disagree I find the older people get the more set in their ways and bigoted they become, they believe that because they are eighty they know everything and younger people know nothing
You get people like that, sure.
You also get other older people who are interested in what the young think and admit they are still always learning new things themselves.
In general, I think peoples' interpersonal skills will be at their best between 40 and 60. You've worked out by then that people who disagree with you may still be good people, without getting too set in your ways.
I think you can stay pretty sharp, health permitting, up until retirement.
You are then at a higher risk of becoming set in your ways, if only because you’re not exposed daily to a wide variety of working colleagues of different ages in the real economy who may all hold different opinions and more likely to mix with your own (now retired) peer group.
Not sure that's true, and indeed the converse may be the case. When at work, certainly in the last 20 years I worked with a group mom people with whose opinions I generally agreed, and who agreed with me. Now I've retired I belong to several discussion groups of various sorts where we disagree.
Its pretty sad if people are so close minded they wont date somebody based on a particular vote. Mrs U and I have regularly voted for different political parties.
My wife and I voted differently over Brexit, but we're still together. So did my mother and father. Not everything is about politics.
Brexit divides completely sensible democratic centrists. It's not as if X voted for Pol Pot and Y voted for Mao. The anger and extremism talk is hot air within a small community of politicos. What is however real is the sense of betrayal there will be with most, maybe all, of the possible outcomes. For that we have to look at parliament, and especially the House of Commons. They are the top governance body of the UK and are acting as if it is taking them by surprise that this should be so.
Its pretty sad if people are so close minded they wont date somebody based on a particular vote. Mrs U and I have regularly voted for different political parties.
My wife and I voted differently over Brexit, but we're still together. So did my mother and father. Not everything is about politics.
However when she said she was considering voting for AV...now that was nearly deal breaker ;-)
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
Are we sure he wrote thar? Or has he been taken hostage and seamus millne authored it? I dont think i have ever heard adonis talk about being a socialist.
Are we sure he wrote thar? Or has he been taken hostage and seamus millne authored it? I dont think i have ever heard adonis talk about being a socialist.
Is it fake news? Its on his facebook page, but for all I know he doesn't write that
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
Always? Labour inherited a mess from the Tories in 1964 for which outgoing Tory Chancellor - Reginald Maudling - apologised to his Labour successor. When Wilson's Government left office in June 1970 , it bequeathed both a strong Balance of Payments surplus and a Budget Surplus to Ted Heath. No outgoing Tory Government has managed to do either! Indeed , in March 1974 Labour was faced with the 3-Day Week - 13.5% inflation - a big Balance of Payments Deficit and weak Public Finances - a scenario far worse than inherited by Thatcher in May 1979.
Er, Labour’s grand 1964 National Plan caused the devaluation of 1967 which wrecked the economy. The 3 day week started under Heath’s Gov as Unions sought to bring him down and Thatcher was elected because Callaghan was patently unfit for office as shown by the Winter of Discontent.
Plugging that into Electoral Calculus (treating Brexit as UKIP) you get:
Lab 310 Con 234 Lib Dems 29 SNP 53 Brexit 1 PC 3 Green 1
Interestingly, if you add UKIP and Brexit, and add the Lib Dems and CHUK, the only change to the prediction is six fewer Conservative seats and six more Lib Dems.
In reality I would not expect SNP to exceed 40 with Labour on circa 320.
Why not? Labour would have lost a fifth of their vote from the last election.
If Labour were to be 8% ahead of the Tories across GB, I would expect that to impact in Scotland. The pro-Union vote would likely swing behind Labour plus gains from SNP in serious expectation of 'getting the Tories out'.
The Conservatives and Labour combined would be 32% down on last time across the UK. Even if it panned out in Scotland as you hope (which seems improbable to me) Labour would be running up a down escalator. They would be losing, not gaining, seats in Scotland.
Are we sure he wrote thar? Or has he been taken hostage and seamus millne authored it? I dont think i have ever heard adonis talk about being a socialist.
Is it fake news? Its on his facebook page, but for all I know he doesn't write that
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
I’m pretty confident I could own and wear the fact I voted Leave and that it wouldn’t be obstacle to dating if I were still in my 20s. Just because many young women haven’t necessarily heard a rational Leave argument and have strong prejudgements about it doesn’t mean they won’t listen to one. And nor would it be a dealbreaker if they respect the fact you hold your ground and you otherwise click and find each other attractive, empathetic and interesting. People just, generally, aren’t that unreasonable. And, if they are, you probably don’t want to be dating them anyway.
Frame.
Lots of women on tinder state "If you voted Leave don't swipe right" or words to that effect
I know a woman in her early thirties week who is very right wing and found online dating very difficult as a result
What muppets the 1922 Committee are. They’d rather have a Marxist like Corbyn as PM than a Brexiteer like Boris. Keeping May in place can only be good for Corbyn and McDonnell. RIP the Conservative Party. Labour will wreck the country and there are no Tory MPs who voted to keep May in place who deserve to retain their seats.
Wreck the country!!
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
Very funny - after the car crash that was Brown, you mean. Labour have always wrecked the economy and emulating Venezuela as Corbyn and McDonnell seek to do is simply insane.
Always? Labour inherited a mess from the Tories in 1964 for which outgoing Tory Chancellor - Reginald Maudling - apologised to his Labour successor. When Wilson's Government left office in June 1970 , it bequeathed both a strong Balance of Payments surplus and a Budget Surplus to Ted Heath. No outgoing Tory Government has managed to do either! Indeed , in March 1974 Labour was faced with the 3-Day Week - 13.5% inflation - a big Balance of Payments Deficit and weak Public Finances - a scenario far worse than inherited by Thatcher in May 1979.
Er, Labour’s grand 1964 National Plan caused the devaluation of 1967 which wrecked the economy. The 3 day week started under Heath’s Gov as Unions sought to bring him down and Thatcher was elected because Callaghan was patently unfit for office as shown by the Winter of Discontent.
The National Plan was abandoned in July 1966 and had no bearing on the November 1967 Devaluation. When Labour took office in October 1964 the Balance of Payments was in a serious crisis - as admitted by Maudling to his successor as Chancellor - James Callaghan. . Re- 1979 - Inflation , the Balance of Payments and the Public Finances were stronger than what was inherited from Heath in March 1974.
Are we sure he wrote thar? Or has he been taken hostage and seamus millne authored it? I dont think i have ever heard adonis talk about being a socialist.
Is it fake news? Its on his facebook page, but for all I know he doesn't write that
According to one recent poll by YouGov, for example, while 11% of Leavers would mind a little or a lot if a relative married across the Brexit divide, this jumped to 37% among Remainers.
How much of this is an age thing? I suspect young people generally tend to have very firmly held opinions and can't understand why anyone would have a different view.
So, if you asked young people about "Could you marry someone who didn't believe in gay rights?" then you'd get much more extreme answers than from 50 year olds.
In other words, if you compare 44 year old Remainers with 44 year old Leavers, do you get such a big disparity?
My Eldest Granddaughter (late 20's) has recently acquired a new boyfriend. I asked if he was a Remainer, and she said he was, and they'd had that conversation very early on.
I’m pretty confident I could own and wear the fact I voted Leave and that it wouldn’t be obstacle to dating if I were still in my 20s. Just because many young women haven’t necessarily heard a rational Leave argument and have strong prejudgements about it doesn’t mean they won’t listen to one. And nor would it be a dealbreaker if they respect the fact you hold your ground and you otherwise click and find each other attractive, empathetic and interesting. People just, generally, aren’t that unreasonable. And, if they are, you probably don’t want to be dating them anyway.
Frame.
Lots of women on tinder state "If you voted Leave don't swipe right" or words to that effect
I know a woman in her early thirties week who is very right wing and found online dating very difficult as a result
Was it Ann Widdecombe lying about her age?
Ann Widdecombe: Farage must be desperate to unveil her! lol I wonder if he had been drinking when he decided on that?
So is Theresa May amazing value to survive 2019 at 5/1 (laying 1/2 on BF) or does this just buy her a few more weeks? I'm feeling the former, but am bemused by the continuing confidence of the market that she'll go. And I've already got some money on her surviving from old bets.
Comments
A Jessica Rees-Mogg, who renounces privilege and cheer-leads for Corbyn.
Nature abhors a media vacuum. It must surely be filled.
To be fair, one son did part of his degree in Texas.
Volume 1, page 1, first sentence.
You need to offer a positive vision for Remain.
You can’t tell a country that is now poorer than parts of Latvia or Lithuania that they are damned lucky to be in the EU. And if they leave, things will be worse.
That has been the case since forever. The Tory Party can’t even knife their leader properly these days. It really is laughable.
The number of people I know in both my social and professional circle who exercise it, versus occasionally go on holiday and for business, is minuscule and I know more who do so under “non EU” rules in Canada, the US and Australia.
As you get older, you appreciate the world is far less black and white, and that greyness tends to lead to a bit less ideology and more moderation.
Lab 310
Con 234
Lib Dems 29
SNP 53
Brexit 1
PC 3
Green 1
Interestingly, if you add UKIP and Brexit, and add the Lib Dems and CHUK, the only change to the prediction is six fewer Conservative seats and six more Lib Dems.
Frame.
As it would probably be Boris, Hunt or Javid then they’ve decided the rules are clear that nurse must be stuck with.
Tories - shit!
Lab - 32% when the Tories are dead!!??
Brexit - happy
LibDems - Oh good, a boost
Chukka - SDP without the plan
Greens - Yippee, and bring on the schoolgirls.
Ukip - we're hoping to finally get 4-5 votes nationwide based on our membership
I guess I’d be most likely to work somewhere like the Netherlands, Poland or Latvia where speaking only English isn’t necessarily an issue.
But, I’m not exactly chomping at the bit to grasp the myriad of opportunities that don’t exist there.
Some of my extended family are now in NZ, some in Aus.
I think alot of what we now call white-collar jobs would, once upon a time, have been 'learned' by trade training.
You also get other older people who are interested in what the young think and admit they are still always learning new things themselves.
They have been beaten to it by Cameron and May
How do you break and re-mould the Tory party safely whilst the antichrist is arseing about in the wings with every indication he has the key to the door?
I think they have to just let it go. The people will vote how they wish. Protecting the people from the people is an option that sort of has ceased to exist. The Tory party has long done that and in an extraordinarily benign fashion.
I also managed to do so with one of my closest friends, and failed with another.
There is only one friend I can think of with whom it’s been an issue. Otherwise all of our relationships are functioning as normal.
And we've been married 57 years.
Can't say we've never had a cross word though!
You are then at a higher risk of becoming set in your ways, if only because you’re not exposed daily to a wide variety of working colleagues of different ages in the real economy who may all hold different opinions and more likely to mix with your own (now retired) peer group.
when you hit your later years you see that theres nothing really new in human behaviour and watching some 20 year old naiively claiming there is is just boring. You also know whats important to you and want to spend your time on that rather than the latestephemeral trend
pointless explaining this to you I know but when youre nearing 60 you'll understand your dad maybe had a point.
https://twitter.com/daniel_sugarman/status/1121098470717296642?s=21
Yet they continue to wonder why people are losing faith in politicians.