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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson edges back to favourite on the day that TMay’s future

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  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    This is the EU remember
    Driverless cars are not going to happen anytime soon, particularly in urban areas. They're sliding down the backside of the hype cycle as fast as you can say 'Elon Musk is a twat'.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    It's beginning to look like self-driving cars cannot cope with pedestrians and cyclists. The only way to bring them in might be to ban bicycles from the roads and outlaw pedestrians crossing the road except at signalled crossing points. That's not something I favour.
    +1
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Regarding speed limiters, its a good idea on paper that will be hard to implement. My Volvo has every safety system thats currently available, one of which is an adaptive speed limiter. Switch it on and the car reads the road signs and sets the limiter accordingly - you can set a variance of a couple of mph though as my speedo is well calibrated I leave it on absolute values.

    Most of the time it works just fine. Occasionally it misses a sign and has the wrong speed limit set (easy to override with a single steering wheel button press). Occasionally it decides the limit is now 20 instead of 30 and the first you know of it is the car braking.

    And that's before pranksters start making little road signs...
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    It's beginning to look like self-driving cars cannot cope with pedestrians and cyclists. The only way to bring them in might be to ban bicycles from the roads and outlaw pedestrians crossing the road except at signalled crossing points. That's not something I favour.
    We are nowhere near the finished state when we come to self-driving cars. And even if humans have to retain controls in town centres to begin with whilst cars operate in automatic mode on motorways and major - roads, that’s still a game changer
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    DavidL said:



    As you say there are weak links but 3% seems surprisingly low given his recent prominence. I seem to recall that you are on at a rather good price? That said his performance in the recent debate was profoundly underwhelming.

    I might have mentioned once or twice that I bet on him just under a year ago for next Prime Minister at 999/1.

    I don't think he should be anywhere near getting the job but if anything at the moment I think he's too long-priced on that Betfair market (though not the next Conservative leader market). The desirability (and chance) of a quick defenestration and unthreatening replacement remains high.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    kyf_100 said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1110794539239919616

    It's a phrase I first heard nearly twenty years ago, at uni, from a hardened leftie, in relation to Gramsci's theories about cultural hegemony (they were encouraging me to read Gramsci). Said leftie thought it was was a very good thing, as it was a better way to achieve socialism than revolution.

    In terms of whether or not it's anti semitic, if it is, it appears to have developed as a conspiracy theory in *very* recent years, after the phrase entered common usage.

    Consider this article published in the Guardian in 2007 for example, the headline being about the "BBC's cultural marxism".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jan/24/comment.comment

    What's interesting is that there are over 300 comments on that article, all from Guardian readers. I've scrolled the first ten pages of comments and not a single one references the phrase as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. You would think if it was, Guardian readers would be the first to call it out?

    So evidently it was a term in common enough usage to make the headline of a newspaper article as recently as a decade ago without anyone linking the phrase to anti semitism. Which would suggest it's perfectly possible to have heard of the term without knowing about the conspiracy theory that's become attached to it.
    Own the language.
  • Mr. Pioneers, it's a bit sad. It was only about five seasons ago that they were the closest to beating Mercedes. A slow decline due to resources being less than those enjoyed by Ferrari/Red Bull is understandable, but the pace has fallen off a cliff.

    I have been - and remain - a massive Williams fan. The last of the old school British privateers, a team who have always looked for technological advances and deployed a ruthless will to win (ask some of their ex drivers...). There for the love of racing, as opposed to being a shop window for a manufacturer brand or the plaything of a rich loon.

    But now they just look defeated. In any other team the principal would have been given the boot. But as its her team, she remains. In George Russell they apparently have hired a really good young driver. Lets hope that he is given the opportunity to shine.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Interesting that Lidington is only at 3% when he was being talked about as a stand in for May so much at the weekend. Is there a qualification on Betfair that excludes interim or stop gap leaders?

    Personally, I see Lidington as May redux with far too many of the same failings but if the bigger beasts wanted a nominee fall guy who was to hold the reins until this interminable Brexit is concluded (and there's the rub, that could take years yet) he is a possibility.

    The real challenge for the next leader is going to be holding the party together. How do Grieve and JRM remain on the same platform? It is going to need someone who is a very good people person, not an ideologue and not someone who has taken fixed positions. For me that rules out the likes of Gove, Raab and Johnson. It means that we are looking at people who have been more pragmatic such as Hunt and Javid or even, dare I say it, Hammond.

    Depending on how this turns out keeping the Tories together may not be possible or desirable but it seems to me that faced with the threat of PM Corbyn they will want to try. Gove's backing may well be key but I can't see him as the front man.

    I think you dare say Hammond, as an interim. Been thinking the same....
    He's boring, has a politically tin ear, has no clear vision of what he wants to achieve for the country or the economy, has failed to address major issues such as student and personal debt, has done far too little to encourage investment and yet has the reputation of being "adult" (and not in a sexy way, far from it), sensible and measured. I would be nervous about him leading a GE campaign but its possible.
    Hard to know what Hammond really thinks, he's been some grumpy bloke sat in the corner throughout most of May's term as PM. He will never satisfy the hard Brexiteers. But as an interim, he might get the nod over Lidington from those Remainers/soft Brexiters who wanted to get May's Shit Deal through and were pissed off by The Coup That Never Was.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    So we have a lot of amendments to the procedure, mostly from Brexiters (if they force them all to a division that will wreck the debating time), and then as supposed options:

    A - A Brexiter proposal objecting to the whole process and seeking to change SOs to prevent it happening again
    B - No Deal exit on 12 April
    C - May's Deal exit on 22 May but with the UK able unilaterally to leave the backstop
    D - Common Market 2.0
    E - Reaffirm the referendum and commit to leave the EU (doesn't say how or when)
    F - Leave but try to stay in a Customs Union
    G - Revoke if a deal isn't agreed
    H - EFTA and EEA
    I - Only leave with a deal agreed with both Scottish and Welsh devolved bodies
    J - Any deal must include commitment to stay in a Customs Union
    K - Labour's Plan (new WA with customs union, alignment to SM, alignment on rights etc)
    L - Revoke unless Parliament approves no deal exit
    M - WA subject to confirmatory referendum (Kyle-Wilson)
    N - Malthouse: WA with new agreement on NI backstop
    O - A Brexiter one that looks like a so-called managed no deal if we cant agree a WA
    P - A Brexiter one that looks like no deal but without anything nasty happening please, if we cant agree a WA

    If I were Speaker, I would consider:

    A is out of order;
    C and N are unicorns (and perhaps K also - see below)
    E and I are political posturing;
    G and L are negative not positive choices (although perhaps simply cover for a Revoke preference)

    with the genuine options being B, D, H, F/ J, M and perhaps K provided they already know the EU will agree, and perhaps G/L if you treat them as Revoke after MV3 falls.

    O and P are variants of B intended to ensure that MV3 fails.


    Thanks for going through all those
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    So I'd offer:

    No Deal /
    CM2 /
    EFTA+EEA /
    WA+CU /
    WA+referendum /
    Labour's Deal /
    Revoke

    Seven choices!

    What will Bercow do?!

    Whatever most inconveniences the government and gives support to remain, obviously
  • Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    The black box and alcohol/drug detecting ignition would be a huge positive
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Luckily May gets her estimates of turnout at anti-Brexit marches from Casino Royale.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503
    Jonathan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Taking back control in a global marketplace is harder than it looks.
    I don’t see why these couldn’t simply be switched off or disabled for the UK market, or the consumer given the right to do so.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    edited March 2019
    Remarkable how technology that checks a vanload of goods out of one depot, applies a tariff, and checks it into another is 'magical thinking', but tech that limits that van's speed by reference to position and road signs, stops it by autobraking, changes lanes, wakes the driver up and makes sure they're not drunk is not only available but universally mandatory in thirty-odd months
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503

    Keep on laying Boris like one of his many mistresses.

    Even if he does stand I do not expect him to make the final two.

    Both me personally, and my book, thank you.
    It continues to mystify me that he is so short. What am I missing?
    There’s a believe he’s the obvious lead Leaver with star power amongst the public and would be a slam dunk with the members.

    I think that’s an out of date analysis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    Good that we can vote to kick them out them when they waste our money on nonsense

    ...oh you said the EU? Ah that’s a problem. I guess we should leave so we can make our own decisions then
    Our government has stated that it will keep alignment with the new regulations post Brexit. We have had input into these ones of course, but in the future will follow without input. Take back Control. In practice, if we want to continue any motor industry at all, we will get this safety feature.

    As EU regulations are by and large well drafted and sensible, I have no problem with that, but it would be nice to have a British voice at the table.
  • Jonathan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Taking back control in a global marketplace is harder than it looks.
    I don’t see why these couldn’t simply be switched off or disabled for the UK market, or the consumer given the right to do so.
    The UK government has already accepted it will apply to cars manufactured in the UK
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,268
    kyf_100 said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1110794539239919616

    It's a phrase I first heard nearly twenty years ago, at uni, from a hardened leftie, in relation to Gramsci's theories about cultural hegemony (they were encouraging me to read Gramsci). Said leftie thought it was was a very good thing, as it was a better way to achieve socialism than revolution.

    In terms of whether or not it's anti semitic, if it is, it appears to have developed as a conspiracy theory in *very* recent years, after the phrase entered common usage.

    Consider this article published in the Guardian in 2007 for example, the headline being about the "BBC's cultural marxism".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jan/24/comment.comment

    What's interesting is that there are over 300 comments on that article, all from Guardian readers. I've scrolled the first ten pages of comments and not a single one references the phrase as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. You would think if it was, Guardian readers would be the first to call it out?

    So evidently it was a term in common enough usage to make the headline of a newspaper article as recently as a decade ago without anyone linking the phrase to anti semitism. Which would suggest it's perfectly possible to have heard of the term without knowing about the conspiracy theory that's become attached to it.
    It appears to have become a term embraced by the loony right to attack the loony left, notably in the US. Whether it is antisemitic is more a matter of conjecture.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Regarding speed limiters, its a good idea on paper that will be hard to implement. My Volvo has every safety system thats currently available, one of which is an adaptive speed limiter. Switch it on and the car reads the road signs and sets the limiter accordingly - you can set a variance of a couple of mph though as my speedo is well calibrated I leave it on absolute values.

    Most of the time it works just fine. Occasionally it misses a sign and has the wrong speed limit set (easy to override with a single steering wheel button press). Occasionally it decides the limit is now 20 instead of 30 and the first you know of it is the car braking.

    And that's before pranksters start making little road signs...
    https://xkcd.com/1958/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    There’s an awful lot of shitcake nannying legislation coming out of the EU this week that reminds me why I voted to Leave. They seem intent on taking all the freedom and pleasure out of driving.

    It’s reminded me why I voted to Leave and felt so strongly about it prior to the vote.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    So I'd offer:

    No Deal /
    CM2 /
    EFTA+EEA /
    WA+CU /
    WA+referendum /
    Labour's Deal /
    Revoke

    Seven choices!

    What will Bercow do?!

    Whatever most inconveniences the government and gives support to remain, obviously
    G, K, M I and L, then
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    So I'd offer:

    No Deal /
    CM2 /
    EFTA+EEA /
    WA+CU /
    WA+referendum /
    Labour's Deal /
    Revoke

    Seven choices!

    What will Bercow do?!

    Whatever most inconveniences the government and gives support to remain, obviously
    Even if you are right, it's not obvious what that would be. Doing his best to strip this down to the core choices is the most inconvenient for the government. The whole exercise collapsing into argument and failing, so MPs wont try it again, would be the most convenient.

    We start with an hour of wrangling over all the wrecking procedural amendments. This is supposed to be curtailed for voting at 3pm. Expect lots of points of order and disruption. If the amendments all go to division it's going to take a couple of hours to clear them all and agree the substantive (effectively another vote on doing Letwin). Then Bercow announces the selected options. Expect tons more points of order and disruption, challenges and explanations.

    In theory there is then supposed to be a debate on the options. In practice there will barely be time to move them all - potentially no more than an hour for debating our country's future.

    Then there is the voting.

    The bottom line is that the unwieldy and slow Parliamentary process means that critics of this exercise have a very good chance of producing an afternoon of chaos from which nothing useful might emerge. Further damaging the reputation of our politicians.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,009

    Roger said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg

    It is stunning. The light right now - just after dawn has broken - is extraordinary.
    I'm in Berlin at the moment; the light isn't that extraordinary tbh, but there are compensations. I shall be taking a boil the wee of gammons commemorative stroll down Karl-Marx-Allee later today.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Thanks Carlotta.

    A welcome intervention by The Only Decent Donald T.
  • Todays indicative votes remind me of my wife when she goes shopping

    In the first shop she finds something ok but asserts there must be better alternatives. She goes round dozens of other shops and then concludes the first shop is the best option
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1110794539239919616

    It's a phrase I first heard nearly twenty years ago, at uni, from a hardened leftie, in relation to Gramsci's theories about cultural hegemony (they were encouraging me to read Gramsci). Said leftie thought it was was a very good thing, as it was a better way to achieve socialism than revolution.

    In terms of whether or not it's anti semitic, if it is, it appears to have developed as a conspiracy theory in *very* recent years, after the phrase entered common usage.

    Consider this article published in the Guardian in 2007 for example, the headline being about the "BBC's cultural marxism".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jan/24/comment.comment

    What's interesting is that there are over 300 comments on that article, all from Guardian readers. I've scrolled the first ten pages of comments and not a single one references the phrase as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. You would think if it was, Guardian readers would be the first to call it out?

    So evidently it was a term in common enough usage to make the headline of a newspaper article as recently as a decade ago without anyone linking the phrase to anti semitism. Which would suggest it's perfectly possible to have heard of the term without knowing about the conspiracy theory that's become attached to it.
    It appears to have become a term embraced by the loony right to attack the loony left, notably in the US. Whether it is antisemitic is more a matter of conjecture.
    It is why Anders Brevik and the Christchurch killer used the term, and why the marchers in Charlottesville were chanting "The Jews will not replace us".

    Right wing antisemitism has not gone away, though often masked by euphemism. "Cultural Marxism" for example implies a concerted conspiracy to undermine nativist traditions.
  • Endillion said:

    Regarding speed limiters, its a good idea on paper that will be hard to implement. My Volvo has every safety system thats currently available, one of which is an adaptive speed limiter. Switch it on and the car reads the road signs and sets the limiter accordingly - you can set a variance of a couple of mph though as my speedo is well calibrated I leave it on absolute values.

    Most of the time it works just fine. Occasionally it misses a sign and has the wrong speed limit set (easy to override with a single steering wheel button press). Occasionally it decides the limit is now 20 instead of 30 and the first you know of it is the car braking.

    And that's before pranksters start making little road signs...
    https://xkcd.com/1958/
    As an inveterate law-breaker, I wouldn't like this. Going up the A68 to Scotland there are limited overtaking points ad it can be depressing being stuck behind a caravan for 50 miles travelling at 40 MPH or something like that. A quick burst of speed allows safe and quick overtaking - and since the Government is placing much store on shaving 20 minutes on rail travel from Birmingham to London, they shouldn't really object if drivers have the same objective travelling from Darlington to Edinburgh.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Luckily May gets her estimates of turnout at anti-Brexit marches from Casino Royale.
    Casino should have put in for the job of counting Brady's letters.
  • Keep on laying Boris like one of his many mistresses.

    Even if he does stand I do not expect him to make the final two.

    Both me personally, and my book, thank you.
    It continues to mystify me that he is so short. What am I missing?
    There’s a believe he’s the obvious lead Leaver with star power amongst the public and would be a slam dunk with the members.

    I think that’s an out of date analysis.
    Noted with thanks.
  • Labour's Amendment K - Labour's Plan (new WA with customs union, alignment to SM, alignment on rights etc). Its absolute cobblers. The Customs Union bit - sure, understand that.

    But "alignment with the Single Market" - we are either EEA members or we are not. At which point do EU negotiators stop humouring cretins like Gardiner and tell them to spin on it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1110794539239919616

    It's a phrase I first heard nearly twenty years ago, at uni, from a hardened leftie, in relation to Gramsci's theories about cultural hegemony (they were encouraging me to read Gramsci). Said leftie thought it was was a very good thing, as it was a better way to achieve socialism than revolution.

    In terms of whether or not it's anti semitic, if it is, it appears to have developed as a conspiracy theory in *very* recent years, after the phrase entered common usage.

    Consider this article published in the Guardian in 2007 for example, the headline being about the "BBC's cultural marxism".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jan/24/comment.comment

    What's interesting is that there are over 300 comments on that article, all from Guardian readers. I've scrolled the first ten pages of comments and not a single one references the phrase as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. You would think if it was, Guardian readers would be thebecome attached to it.
    It appears to have become a term embraced by the loony right to attack the loony left, notably in the US. Whether it is antisemitic is more a matter of conjecture.
    It is why Anders Brevik and the Christchurch killer used the term, and why the marchers in Charlottesville were chanting "The Jews will not replace us".

    Right wing antisemitism has not gone away, though often masked by euphemism. "Cultural Marxism" for example implies a concerted conspiracy to undermine nativist traditions.
    The term is much more widely used than that, to describe the way in which the left gains control of institutions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,268
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    The DUP would rather revoke Brexit or back BINO for the whole UK than the backstop for NI though Jacob
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1110794539239919616

    It's a phrase I first heard nearly twenty years ago, at uni, from a hardened leftie, in relation to Gramsci's theories about cultural hegemony (they were encouraging me to read Gramsci). Said leftie thought it was was a very good thing, as it was a better way to achieve socialism than revolution.

    In terms of whether or not it's anti semitic, if it is, it appears to have developed as a conspiracy theory in *very* recent years, after the phrase entered common usage.

    Consider this article published in the Guardian in 2007 for example, the headline being about the "BBC's cultural marxism".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jan/24/comment.comment

    What's interesting is that there are over 300 comments on that article, all from Guardian readers. I've scrolled the first ten pages of comments and not a single one references the phrase as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. You would think if it was, Guardian readers would be thebecome attached to it.
    It appears to have become a term embraced by the loony right to attack the loony left, notably in the US. Whether it is antisemitic is more a matter of conjecture.
    It is why Anders Brevik and the Christchurch killer used the term, and why the marchers in Charlottesville were chanting "The Jews will not replace us".

    Right wing antisemitism has not gone away, though often masked by euphemism. "Cultural Marxism" for example implies a concerted conspiracy to undermine nativist traditions.
    The term is much more widely used than that, to describe the way in which the left gains control of institutions.
    quite.

    Own the language.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,009

    Barry Gardiner all over the place on Sky talking incoherent nonsense

    'Let me be clear' needs to be banned in use by all mps and journalist

    That's dog bites man territory surely?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Endillion said:

    Regarding speed limiters, its a good idea on paper that will be hard to implement. My Volvo has every safety system thats currently available, one of which is an adaptive speed limiter. Switch it on and the car reads the road signs and sets the limiter accordingly - you can set a variance of a couple of mph though as my speedo is well calibrated I leave it on absolute values.

    Most of the time it works just fine. Occasionally it misses a sign and has the wrong speed limit set (easy to override with a single steering wheel button press). Occasionally it decides the limit is now 20 instead of 30 and the first you know of it is the car braking.

    And that's before pranksters start making little road signs...
    https://xkcd.com/1958/
    As an inveterate law-breaker, I wouldn't like this. Going up the A68 to Scotland there are limited overtaking points ad it can be depressing being stuck behind a caravan for 50 miles travelling at 40 MPH or something like that. A quick burst of speed allows safe and quick overtaking - and since the Government is placing much store on shaving 20 minutes on rail travel from Birmingham to London, they shouldn't really object if drivers have the same objective travelling from Darlington to Edinburgh.
    The devices would not stop you doing that, merely flag up that you were over the speed limit while doing so.

    Incidentally the decline of motor vehicle deaths in the UK over recent decades has been a remarkeable success story. They are down to less than 20% of the rate of the mid Sixties:


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    The Tories asked this question in 2017 and got their answer. Presumably this quarterwit also favours pushing forward with fox hunting ban repeal and grammar schools expansion?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited March 2019

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    No, it is an explicitly anti-semitic phrase. If people are unknowingly using it they are still promoting anti-semitism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,268
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Keep us posted.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    kle4 said:

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
    All in all, the most sickening part of this process has been the determination of so many people to pass the buck.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    _Anazina_ said:

    The Tories asked this question in 2017 and got their answer. Presumably this quarterwit also favours pushing forward with fox hunting ban repeal and grammar schools expansion?
    Labour also had Leaving the EU in their manifesto like the Tories unlike fox hunting ban repeal and the dementia tax and grammar school expansion which Labour opposed
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,811
    I think that in political discourse you can judge a phrase by the company it keeps. The phrase "cultural Marxism" keeps some very unpleasant company indeed. People who want to use it should not be surprised if they are perceived accordingly.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited March 2019
    Alistair said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    No, it is an explicitly anti-semitic phrase. If people are unknowingly using it they are still promoting anti-semitism.
    Wikipedia supplies a decent history of the term, including how it came to be used to denote a paleocon conspiracy theory about a a plot to destroy “Western Civilisation”. The latter usage probably only really entered more mainstream awareness with the rise of alt-right talking points online over the last decade or so - before then it was confined to fringe groups who didn't have much influence on mainstream discourse.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503

    Mr. L, not persuaded by self-driving cars.

    It's a lot harder to be awake and attentive whilst doing nothing but watching than it is to persistently do an actual task. A self-driving car requires someone qualified to drive, constantly behind the wheel, and constantly ready to take control at a moment's notice. It's an expensive addition to make driving more difficult.

    Even if it doesn't often go wrong, when it does the consequences will be as bad or worse than when someone drives now.

    It's possible that self-driving vehicles in a more rail-road sense could work better, perhaps transporting goods on specific self-driving-only roads. But as a general approach to transport I think it's nuts.

    Plus, hackers can already make brakes fail. Between self-driving cars and speed limiters, we're heading for a situation where a mischief-maker or terrorist could bugger things up promptly. Hmm. I wonder if the emergency services will also have limited vehicles.

    I expect we’ll get all of the disbenefits of a self-driving car (boredom) whilst few of the benefits (e.g. I bet attentiveness behind the wheel will still be required, “just in case”, ruling out sleeping or use for taxing to and from country pubs).

    It might help with fuel efficiency and congestion overall, however. As usual, almost all government decisions like this are made on raw “GDP increase” and net numbers of “lives saved” estimates, and nothing else.

    Quality of and freedom of life doesn’t come into it.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019

    I think that in political discourse you can judge a phrase by the company it keeps. The phrase "cultural Marxism" keeps some very unpleasant company indeed. People who want to use it should not be surprised if they are perceived accordingly.

    Yes, but unfortunately has become a staple on places like the Telegraph's talk boards, where it also attracts in anti-semitic conspiracists. I've seen much more anti-semitism over the years there then in the Guardian.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Boy, could you elaborate?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    HYUFD said:
    Watsons for some reason blocked me on twitter...what's he saying?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    Alistair said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    No, it is an explicitly anti-semitic phrase. If people are unknowingly using it they are still promoting anti-semitism.
    It's not explicitly anti-Semitic. The allegation is that is code for anti-semitism. But, I've certainly seen the term used in contexts that are not anti-Semitic.
  • HYUFD said:
    Many calls. Saying "why does this idiot keep going on the radio saying so much absolute crap"
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    isam said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    It can’t be that bad, Hope Not Hate only described it as “deeply disturbing”
    Cultural Marxism is literally just another name for the Nazi idea "Cultural Bolshivism".

    If you are unfortunate enough to spend lots of time on the internet (as I do) you know it can be summed up as, roughly:
    tenant 1: feminism has gone too far and is destroying the modern family unit, gender constructs, and all that is holy for the continuation of civilisation.
    tenant 2: feminist women, with their power and freedom, are more likely now to go out with bad guys who are pretty, or men outside their own race, and this is bad for white men, who built civilisation, don't you know.
    tenant 3: feminism is a creation of those goddamn marxists who want to destroy the west, and are doing so through academia, corporate practices and political activism (don't ask me why corporations would be in favour of marxism, but according to Dr Lobsterface, HR departments are part of cultural marxism).
    tenant 4: this is probably all the fault of the Jews, because they were the people who came up with marxism, feminism and all the other isms in the world.

    This is not fringe stuff. Loads of Youtubers, news pundits on places like Fox and the Mail, and people who managed to get doctorates are peddling this stuff. See MGTOW, or Stephen Molineux, or the guy who shot up Christchurch. 4 and 8 chan talk about this stuff over and over again. This is a step up from just "PC Culture Gone Mad"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,268
    Alistair said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    No, it is an explicitly anti-semitic phrase. If people are unknowingly using it they are still promoting anti-semitism.
    The loony alt right is a pretty confused mix, though, and its denizens are just as likely to be anti-Islamic and pro Israel as antisemitic.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
    Like so many others, he thought he could prosper by pandering to those more extreme than himself, only to find that they took him at his word and now think he is betraying them.

    The whole story of Brexit has been one of failure of politicians to lead public opinion rather than whip it up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Regarding speed limiters, its a good idea on paper that will be hard to implement. My Volvo has every safety system thats currently available, one of which is an adaptive speed limiter. Switch it on and the car reads the road signs and sets the limiter accordingly - you can set a variance of a couple of mph though as my speedo is well calibrated I leave it on absolute values.

    Most of the time it works just fine. Occasionally it misses a sign and has the wrong speed limit set (easy to override with a single steering wheel button press). Occasionally it decides the limit is now 20 instead of 30 and the first you know of it is the car braking.

    And that's before pranksters start making little road signs...
    https://xkcd.com/1958/
    As an inveterate law-breaker, I wouldn't like this. Going up the A68 to Scotland there are limited overtaking points ad it can be depressing being stuck behind a caravan for 50 miles travelling at 40 MPH or something like that. A quick burst of speed allows safe and quick overtaking - and since the Government is placing much store on shaving 20 minutes on rail travel from Birmingham to London, they shouldn't really object if drivers have the same objective travelling from Darlington to Edinburgh.
    The devices would not stop you doing that, merely flag up that you were over the speed limit while doing so.

    Incidentally the decline of motor vehicle deaths in the UK over recent decades has been a remarkeable success story. They are down to less than 20% of the rate of the mid Sixties:


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain
    The BBC is specifically saying that the devices will be "limiters" that automatically slow the car down.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503

    Luckily May gets her estimates of turnout at anti-Brexit marches from Casino Royale.
    My estimates are accurate, not propaganda.

    I think even the Remain echoists had started to get embarrassed by the “two million!” clarions, and have at least now reverted to the original spin.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503

    Jonathan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Taking back control in a global marketplace is harder than it looks.
    I don’t see why these couldn’t simply be switched off or disabled for the UK market, or the consumer given the right to do so.
    The UK government has already accepted it will apply to cars manufactured in the UK
    Yes, I know.

    Which makes me suspect that secretly the UK Government is kind of up for it anyway.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Meeks,

    "failure of politicians to lead public opinion."

    That makes the assumption that politicians are always right. Therefore the voters are wrong to have an opinion that is different. That's a view, but not one I share.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    A lot of people imagine by using the phrase they are merely referring to some sort of levelling-down, anti-elitist and pro-minority concept in culture, but actually the phrase refers to the idea that the Frankfurt School critical theorists, most of whom were jewish, "took over" european culture, essentially because being jewish, they were supposedly inherently anti-european. It's nuts, and is often used in conjunction with phrases like White Genocide, and various other Soros conspiracies on social media and elsewhere.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    So much shade being thrown Barry Gardiner isn't going to get a suntan in 2019:

    https://twitter.com/peterkyle/status/1110826877034352641
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I have an electrical assisted bicycle which has a speed limiter to stop the motor providing power beyond 15.5 miles per hour. This is controlled by a series of sensors but there is a widespread black market of so-called dongles that will disable the limitation. The trouble is if you use such a gadget then your bicycle no longer qualifies as as a bike and you have to be subject to the ordinary laws of motor vehicles. If you were in an incident with such a dongle then you'll be in serious legal trouble.

    It is possible legally to go faster than the limit on an electric bike by pedaling harder yourself something that is rather enjoyable to do
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Arguably the best way to improve driving would be to remove drivers seatbelts and airbags, and have a large metal spike stiking towards the drivers heart from the centre of the steering wheel. It would do wonders for our organ donation programme too, which is really quite reliant on stupid young men killing themselves in accidents.

    No advantage to do the same for passengers, obviously!
  • Luckily May gets her estimates of turnout at anti-Brexit marches from Casino Royale.
    My estimates are accurate, not propaganda.

    I think even the Remain echoists had started to get embarrassed by the “two million!” clarions, and have at least now reverted to the original spin.
    I'm sticking with half a million, CR. Long experience of attending matches at Leyton Orient has given me the ability to calculate small crowds accurately.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    There’s an awful lot of shitcake nannying legislation coming out of the EU this week that reminds me why I voted to Leave. They seem intent on taking all the freedom and pleasure out of driving.

    It’s reminded me why I voted to Leave and felt so strongly about it prior to the vote.
    You take pleasure out of breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
    All in all, the most sickening part of this process has been the determination of so many people to pass the buck.
    On reflection, I think it predates the process as well though.

    I’m fairly confident British EU commissioner and MEPs backed legislation in the EU they knew would be unpopular here, and then blamed it on the EU saying “what can we do?”

    The common thread is taking accountability and ownership of policy so the voters can make a decision on you come reeelection time.

    Turns out not too many politicans are really up for that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Hell yeah Dura Ace
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    I think that in political discourse you can judge a phrase by the company it keeps. The phrase "cultural Marxism" keeps some very unpleasant company indeed. People who want to use it should not be surprised if they are perceived accordingly.

    Yes, but unfortunately has become a staple on places like the Telegraph's talk boards, where it also attracts in anti-semitic conspiracists. I've seen much more anti-semitism over the years there then in the Guardian.
    I'll take your word for it, but to be fair, as with Corbyn's mural, I wouldn't at first sight have recognised it as anti-semitic and would have just found it obscure. I think there's a problem that people assume that everyone is familiar with the terms of reference in the places they browse, especiually if they're vigilant about this sort of thing - they catch allusions which pass many of us by, including sometimes the people who use them. But I take the point about a phrase acquiring the company it keeps.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,811

    Mr. Boy, could you elaborate?

    The phrase is used by people on the far right who believe that left wing intellectuals have captured cultural institutions like universities as part of a broader conspiracy to undermine the authentic national culture of Europe and North America and replace it by a globalised culture, including through mass immigration and promoting the rights of minorities. Put more simply, it is a phrase widely used by young men who like holding burning torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us". As someone with three mixed race children I am not prepared to be relaxed about this kind of thing, and I don't apologise for calling it out even if it upsets people who like to dabble a bit in this direction.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    edited March 2019

    I have an electrical assisted bicycle which has a speed limiter to stop the motor providing power beyond 15.5 miles per hour. This is controlled by a series of sensors but there is a widespread black market of so-called dongles that will disable the limitation. The trouble is if you use such a gadget then your bicycle no longer qualifies as as a bike and you have to be subject to the ordinary laws of motor vehicles. If you were in an incident with such a dongle then you'll be in serious legal trouble.

    It is possible legally to go faster than the limit on an electric bike by pedaling harder yourself something that is rather enjoyable to do

    I wonder why the 0.5 mph was considered important there.

    Edit - ah presumably nearest to 25km/h
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited March 2019
    This is quite marvellous. Right Said Fred, the Brexit special. Click through for full eight verses.

    https://twitter.com/tomchadwin/status/1110830265914585088

    https://twitter.com/tomchadwin/status/1110830317601021952
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,009
    edited March 2019
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Arguably the best way to improve driving would be to remove drivers seatbelts and airbags, and have a large metal spike stiking towards the drivers heart from the centre of the steering wheel. It would do wonders for our organ donation programme too, which is really quite reliant on stupid young men killing themselves in accidents.

    No advantage to do the same for passengers, obviously!
    Not so good for heart donations, mind.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Dear Marge

    We are leaving the EU and Boris Johnson or Michael Gove are going to become Prime Minister. Donald Tusk says he will be Prime Minister but I've been let down by politicians before. My pre war luger is rusty and I don't want to jump off a bridge because i'm afraid of heights.

    Can you help?

    Desperate of Darlington.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    CD13 said:

    Mr Meeks,

    "failure of politicians to lead public opinion."

    That makes the assumption that politicians are always right. Therefore the voters are wrong to have an opinion that is different. That's a view, but not one I share.

    That's not what I said at all, nor is it a view I share either.

    My point can be illustrated by the egregious Mr Cream-Crackers. He has spent the last two years cultivating his image as the steeliest most uncompromising Brexiteer that ever drew breath. Adoring Leavers swooned at his feet. We were forced to endure his speccy visage on our television screens on a daily basis for him to intone his mantra of Leave-received wisdom.

    And now we reach the point when he has to make hard choices. And it turns out that his public image was a cultivated construct at variance on key points with his true beliefs. He has whipped up a crowd and has let them down at the last. Making the case for his true beliefs would have required nuance, advance thought, and patient drawing of lines on his outer Brexit flank. But that would have been too much like hard work.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    What is a Barry Gardiner for? The empty space where a politician should be?
  • Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
    All in all, the most sickening part of this process has been the determination of so many people to pass the buck.
    JRM interests me little but isn't he just performing the same manoeuvre as many others - i.e. blame shifting? Doesn't he just want to be somewhere else when the shit hits the fan?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    When I listened to young kids often studying sociology or other such non-science, they often used long, meaningless words to sound intelligent. They usually failed.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019

    Mr. Boy, could you elaborate?

    The phrase is used by people on the far right who believe that left wing intellectuals have captured cultural institutions like universities as part of a broader conspiracy to undermine the authentic national culture of Europe and North America and replace it by a globalised culture, including through mass immigration and promoting the rights of minorities. Put more simply, it is a phrase widely used by young men who like holding burning torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us". As someone with three mixed race children I am not prepared to be relaxed about this kind of thing, and I don't apologise for calling it out even if it upsets people who like to dabble a bit in this direction.
    Correct. The essential and unpalatable thought process, popularised across social media, particularly in eastern europe, actually is : Jewish people intellectually inspiring and then financing non-white people to take over Europe.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,081
    Good morning, everybody. I have been offline since Thursday. Please can someone tell me whether a No-deal Brexit has been definitely and legally avoided yet? I've looked at the BBC news but it doesn't seem to give a definite picture.

    Thanks in anticipation.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    Streeter said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    There’s an awful lot of shitcake nannying legislation coming out of the EU this week that reminds me why I voted to Leave. They seem intent on taking all the freedom and pleasure out of driving.

    It’s reminded me why I voted to Leave and felt so strongly about it prior to the vote.
    You take pleasure out of breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit?
    Who does not?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
    All in all, the most sickening part of this process has been the determination of so many people to pass the buck.
    On reflection, I think it predates the process as well though.

    I’m fairly confident British EU commissioner and MEPs backed legislation in the EU they knew would be unpopular here, and then blamed it on the EU saying “what can we do?”

    The common thread is taking accountability and ownership of policy so the voters can make a decision on you come reeelection time.

    Turns out not too many politicans are really up for that.
    I'd add to the list those Eurosceptics who encouraged expansion of the EU to cause trouble. Not that I have much sympathy for the pro-EU lot who thoroughly failed to plan for the inevitable consequences.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I think that in political discourse you can judge a phrase by the company it keeps. The phrase "cultural Marxism" keeps some very unpleasant company indeed. People who want to use it should not be surprised if they are perceived accordingly.

    Signing a petition started by someone who wants to kill Theresa May fall in to the same category?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Gove's decline is interesting.

    and very welcome given he is a toerag.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    HYUFD said:
    Watsons for some reason blocked me on twitter...what's he saying?
    I've had many calls about Barry Gardiner's interview on @BBCr4today, which I missed. Whipping arrangement have not yet been agreed. I support the Kyle/Wilson amendment.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Arguably the best way to improve driving would be to remove drivers seatbelts and airbags, and have a large metal spike stiking towards the drivers heart from the centre of the steering wheel. It would do wonders for our organ donation programme too, which is really quite reliant on stupid young men killing themselves in accidents.

    No advantage to do the same for passengers, obviously!
    Not so good for heart donations, mind.
    Rats! You've spotted the flaw in my proposal.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Customs U 1.02 on Betfair
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Someone has been deafened by the baying sound of a hundred thousand moon-howlers:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110825268250333184

    He's a coward. Willing to act one way but unwilling to do it without the cover of someone else.

    Unlike him the DUP mean what they say.
    All in all, the most sickening part of this process has been the determination of so many people to pass the buck.
    JRM interests me little but isn't he just performing the same manoeuvre as many others - i.e. blame shifting? Doesn't he just want to be somewhere else when the shit hits the fan?
    He does not say what he means. He's not the only one, but he's built his public image as a man of principle.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Royale, May's a technologically illiterate authoritarian. She probably thinks Article 13's a good idea too.

    Not that that's confined to her. Cooper et al. seem to think magic algorithms exist that can make the internet safe for everyone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Arguably the best way to improve driving would be to remove drivers seatbelts and airbags, and have a large metal spike stiking towards the drivers heart from the centre of the steering wheel. It would do wonders for our organ donation programme too, which is really quite reliant on stupid young men killing themselves in accidents.

    No advantage to do the same for passengers, obviously!
    Positioning to win an argument via reducto ad absurdism is an old trick.

    I’d prefer to live in a country where we celebrate the freedom and enjoyment driving offers but encourage drivers to take responsibility, just as we have now.

    Who doesn’t occasionally enjoy opening up to 80 to 90 mph on a motorway on a summer Saturday? Why is that a problem?

    Not everything can be won by statistics. You could restrict and control all sorts of things by that measure and take all sorts of fun out of life. Sometimes calculated risk and freedom is well worth it for the type of society in which we want to live.
  • PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    AnneJGP said:

    Good morning, everybody. I have been offline since Thursday. Please can someone tell me whether a No-deal Brexit has been definitely and legally avoided yet? I've looked at the BBC news but it doesn't seem to give a definite picture.

    Thanks in anticipation.

    No...but increasingly unlikely.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    Also according to 5Live, we have already signed up to it.

    All it does is give an audible and visual warning of exceeding the speed limit, not prevent anyone from speeding. Estimated to save 360 RTA deaths per year in UK.
    Middle East and Asian markets have had the 120km/h "chime" for years. We once did a run ashore in Bahrain where it was a point of honour for the designated driver of the hire care to have it going off as often as possible. We called it the "Fuck Yeah Bell". That was the same trip where we got beat by the RAF VC10 crews in a reverse gear race across the island and I got locked up by the Bahraini cops.
    You really do need to sign up as presenter of a post-watershed Top Gear replacement.
    My car is going to be featured on a popular YouTube channel for highly modified deathtraps when I've finished building it. Maybe that will be my big break!
    Arguably the best way to improve driving would be to remove drivers seatbelts and airbags, and have a large metal spike stiking towards the drivers heart from the centre of the steering wheel. It would do wonders for our organ donation programme too, which is really quite reliant on stupid young men killing themselves in accidents.

    No advantage to do the same for passengers, obviously!
    "You emerge from a third world airport late at night. Furious traffic honks and teems. Waiting at the kerb are two taxis. In one, the driver has an airbag, a safety harness and a helmet (the passenger seats of both vehicles, of course, are devoid of such things). In the other, the driver has no belt or airbag or helmet, and there is a sharp spike in the centre if the steering wheel. Which taxi do you take? It’s very easy."

    Any guesses who said this?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,503

    I have an electrical assisted bicycle which has a speed limiter to stop the motor providing power beyond 15.5 miles per hour. This is controlled by a series of sensors but there is a widespread black market of so-called dongles that will disable the limitation. The trouble is if you use such a gadget then your bicycle no longer qualifies as as a bike and you have to be subject to the ordinary laws of motor vehicles. If you were in an incident with such a dongle then you'll be in serious legal trouble.

    It is possible legally to go faster than the limit on an electric bike by pedaling harder yourself something that is rather enjoyable to do

    I wonder why the 0.5 mph was considered important there.

    Edit - ah presumably nearest to 25km/h

    We’ve gone full circle. In the 1890s cars were required to go at walking pace preceded by a man waving a red flag.

    Now, it’s digital.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    God bless Donald Tusk .

    Fighting for Brits who want to remain EU citizens .
This discussion has been closed.