For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
It likely means Benn Letwin passes this evening, indicative votes are then held on Wednesday and MV3 on Thursday
It could have been pulled because May is now confident of MV3 (which seems unlikely), in which case it'll be tomorrow.
It could have been pulled because May has been pushed into coming out for full on no deal (which seems very unlikely).
It could have been pulled because the government realises that Cooper/Letwin is inevitable and they want to avoid the humiliation of their own plan being replaced by the MPs' plan. Which seems more likely than either of the above.
Or, possibly, that Boles and Co. have kicked up a fuss about Common Market 2 not being in their list, and they are having an urgent rethink.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread on the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of 1 million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
It's been obvious for the longest time. If MPs aren't aware of this then they are utter utter idiots.
Why do we have law makers which can't follow simple logic progression, and seemingly have a different reality to the rest of us?
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.
Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%
For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.
A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.
Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
Call off the election now, it’s decided!
It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.
His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
He got more in Ohio, Iowa, Michigan and Pennsylvania than Romney though
And Clinton, obviously, got far fewer than Obama in Wisconsin.
Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I think you mean "...Europe is a continent off the coast of Britain".
And on the Isle of Wight they call the 'mainland' "North Island"
Buttigieg is OK, better than Warren and Harris but he is Mayor of a relatively liberal city in Indiana and not sure if he could appeal to the wider rustbelt.
Although he is third in Iowa on 11% just ahead of Harris on 10% he is also still well behind Biden on 24% and Sanders on 23%
For Biden and Sanders this is just a vanity trip. They are TOO OLD
No, if the Democrats want to win they probably need to pick one of them, especially Biden.
A new Fox poll has Biden beating Trump 47% to 40% and Sanders beating Trump 44% to 41% but Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump beats Warren 42% to 40%.
Remember the only candidate since WW2 to beat an incumbent president after only one term of his party in the White House, Ronald Reagan, was 69 when he beat Carter in 1980
Call off the election now, it’s decided!
It is clear Trump will beat any Democrat who cannot match his appeal to blue collar workers in the rustbelt and win the Electoral College again
Is it? The Dems has an excellent performance in the rust belt in the midterms despite Nancy Pelosi being the Democratic leader.
My monthly reminder that Trump got less votes than Romney in Wisconsin.
His appeal is vastly overstated compared to Clinton being poison in the rustbelt.
He got more in Ohio, Iowa, Michigan and Pennsylvania than Romney though
And Clinton, obviously, got far fewer than Obama in Wisconsin.
In general Trump only added a percentage point or two to the Republican vote in the rust belt whilst Clinton lost 7 to 10(!) Percentage points.
What a mean spirited comment. Why mention your disdain for what she has allegedly done to Labour. I think she has done a fine job personall.y
I thought it was a rather generous-spirited comment; harder to wish someone well if you dislike what they have done.
Thanks - I have seen too many people suffer through their cancer treatments to wish them anything other than the very best as they start on that necessary journey.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate
How out of character for him !!!!
If i don't get my way i will scream and scream until i am sick....
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
The madness of giving the MP's a say on the deal turned a difficult process into an unsolvable riddle
Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate
The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
The biggest tragedy for me as a Cons member - but not irrelevant to the state of the nation - is the reemergence of these tossers into the political limelight.
Time was that the likes of Cash, Redwood, JRM, Bone, etc were simply eccentric, amiable enough figures of fun way out on the fringes of the mainstream Conservative Party. No one had heard of Bridgen or Francois.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
God knows, anything as long as it is good publicity. It is all "me, me, me" with some.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
It depends how many people choose to sign it repeatedly.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
When Cameron offered you that, you campaigned against it.
At the time, I wasn’t happy with it and thought we could do better.
I am happy with May’s Deal and the aspirations of the FTA political declaration.
Well, he may be " telegenic, personable, articulate, gay and almost exactly half the age of front runners Biden and Sanders". This is fine for the urban areas East and West, but sadly I don't think the gayness computes in the blue collar Midwest, the very place the Democrats need to bolster their cause.
IMHO, I'd expect Ohio, Florida, and Iowa to be quite solid for Trump in 2020. So the Democrats either need to flip the rust belt, or States like North Carolina, Georgia, and Arizona.
I think they’re cruising to a losing because they hate him too much.
He won’t now be impeached and the fundamentals for his reelection campaign couldn’t be better for him.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Obviously I have some partiality in this as a Remainer, but I'm not sure about that. Its opponents were predicting a ceiling of around 6-8 million only last week, and it's already reaching the lower end of that. I don't think it's diverged from between about half a million and one a half million a day since it started, although someone may be able to correct me.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
Moses syndrome (1) A delusion characterized by uncritical belief in the promises of others to lead one to the Promised Land, e.g., to beauty, youth, wealth, power, peace of mind, or happiness. (2) A delusion characterized by the belief that one has been chosen by a god, destiny, or history to lead others to the Promised Land, e.g., some goal such as "putting the sciences on a firm foundation" (Descartes) or belief in such things as "the eternal law of nature that gives Germany as the stronger power the right before history to subjugate these peoples of inferior race, to dominate them and to coerce them into performing useful labors" (Hitler).
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
I wonder how many people have put their children's names on there? Do you have to be over 18?
Andrew Bridgen on Sky making a fool of himself demanding TM is replaced with a hard brexiteer to make brexit happen. He wants a GE but if I had my say he would have the whip withdrawn and in a GE he would not be the conservative candidate
The best thing about Brexit happening is that MPs like Bridegen won't appear on TV as much
The biggest tragedy for me as a Cons member - but not irrelevant to the state of the nation - is the reemergence of these tossers into the political limelight.
Time was that the likes of Cash, Redwood, JRM, Bone, etc were simply eccentric, amiable enough figures of fun way out on the fringes of the mainstream Conservative Party. No one had heard of Bridgen or Francois.
Now they are running the show.
They do need facing down
And Labour have provided a mirror image. Unfortunately it may mean that the saner citizens will have to get more politically involved to rectify the situation. Unlike some I don't regard high levels of political engagement as a good thing in itself - if politicians are reasonably competent and not too ideological we can afford the luxury of non engagement. There are big changes occurring in society beyond the Brexit crisis so I think we are entering a decade or two where big political and constitutional changes are required and we face danger from ideologues unless the pragmatic and sensible majority assert themselves.
The march is fine but it rather sums up what has gone wrong. These people should be out campaigning in the towns and cities across Britain trying to change peoples' minds. Instead they find it far easier to lobby MPs.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
Voting for what is best for her constituents and then explaining to them why you voted that way is what a MP is supposed to do - they are there to represent their constituents and that may mean deciding to do things differently based on more facts than her constituents have...
That's far better than the I'm voting this way as my constituents are asking me to (that excuse to me is a grade A cop-out)...
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
However, there was a referendum held with the public being told the electorate's decision would decide the matter. That referendum had a majority in the Commons and a large majority also backed triggering Article 50.
Asking the electorate to decide something and then deciding to ignore them is a very dangerous game to play.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Obviously I have some partiality in this as a Remainer, but I'm not sure about that. Its opponents were predicting a ceiling of around 6-8 million only last week, and it's already reaching the lower end of that. I don't think it's diverged from between about half a million and one a half million a day since it started, although someone may be able to correct me.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
It looks like it’s plateauing out to me, but i don’t know what the ceiling would be. I’d be very surprised if it got to 8 million.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
I'm pretty sure, from what I have seen and heard that she's highly unlikely to do that.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Obviously I have some partiality in this as a Remainer, but I'm not sure about that. Its opponents were predicting a ceiling of around 6-8 million only last week, and it's already reaching the lower end of that. I don't think it's diverged from between about half a million and one a half million a day since it started, although someone may be able to correct me.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
When you say "started", it was launched in February. Until it went viral immediately after May's speech (either direct causation or because a few celebrities tweeted it out at around the same time, take your pick) it had "only" got to about 60,000
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
I doubt that, but it would probably put the Tories out of power for a very, very long time once Corbyn has gone.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Obviously I have some partiality in this as a Remainer, but I'm not sure about that. Its opponents were predicting a ceiling of around 6-8 million only last week, and it's already reaching the lower end of that. I don't think it's diverged from between about half a million and one a half million a day since it started, although someone may be able to correct me.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
It looks like it’s plateauing out to me, but i don’t know what the ceiling would be. I’d be very surprised if it got to 8 million.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
I doubt that, but it would probably put the Tories out of power for a very, very long time once Corbyn has gone.
I'm thinking that if May goes - as still looks increasingly likely despite the Tories being no better at organising a coup than were Labour - Corbyn may not be far behind?
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Obviously I have some partiality in this as a Remainer, but I'm not sure about that. Its opponents were predicting a ceiling of around 6-8 million only last week, and it's already reaching the lower end of that. I don't think it's diverged from between about half a million and one a half million a day since it started, although someone may be able to correct me.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
It looks like it’s plateauing out to me, but i don’t know what the ceiling would be. I’d be very surprised if it got to 8 million.
I don't think it will reach 7 million. Might just be able to reach 6 million.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
I doubt that, but it would probably put the Tories out of power for a very, very long time once Corbyn has gone.
It would be a condition of us rejoining. We’d take it and put off the decision until the time was ripe.
It’s very possible a charismatic centre left leader could succeed in taking us in.
<<When you say "started", it was launched in February. Until it went viral immediately after May's speech (either direct causation or because a few celebrities tweeted it out at around the same time, take your pick) it had "only" got to about 60,000>>
Yes, sorry, I meant since its publicity went nuclear last week. Since then it's seemed pretty steady. It may seem disproportionate to spend so long discussing it, but as others have mentioned, whether it seems stuck at a ceiling one would associate with certain parts of the country, or moves beyond that, in the current febrile political climate could have some impact.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
It looks like it’s plateauing out to me, but i don’t know what the ceiling would be. I’d be very surprised if it got to 8 million.
When you say "started", it was launched in February. Until it went viral immediately after May's speech (either direct causation or because a few celebrities tweeted it out at around the same time, take your pick) it had "only" got to about 60,000
Yes, sorry, I meant since its publicity went nuclear last week. Since then it's seemed pretty steady. It may seem disproportionate to spend so long discussing it, but as other people have mentioned, whether it seems stuck at a ceiling one would associate with certain parts of the country, or moves beyond that, in the current febrile political climate, could have some impact.
Its already had an impact, as part of the background feeling that the country is losing the will to leave. Particularly when you compare the various 'real Brexit' protests which are all falling flat.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
If they don’t like her she will lose her seat.
Only if she joins TIG
My guess is that she is one of the small number of MPs who has a large personal vote. But she’d certainly struggle to hold on if she did leave Labour. I expect all the TIG MPs to lose their seats except, perhaps, Allen, Wollaston and Gapes.
The march is fine but it rather sums up what has gone wrong. These people should be out campaigning in the towns and cities across Britain trying to change peoples' minds. Instead they find it far easier to lobby MPs.
There seems to have been a People’s Vote stall in our nearest market town High Street every Saturday for months now - but that may just be a local thing.
But if there’s a second referendum, it’ll (again) be won or lost on Facebook.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
If they don’t like her she will lose her seat.
Only if she joins TIG
My guess is that she is one of the small number of MPs who has a large personal vote. But she’d certainly struggle to hold on if she did leave Labour. I expect all the TIG MPs to lose their seats except, perhaps, Allen, Wollaston and Gapes.
Gapes will lose for sure up against Labour in Ilford South. Allen will hold for sure, unless the LibDems run against her, and even then stands a good chance. Same for Wollaston.
6,000,000 or 7,000,000. Does it really matter? I feel it's the constituency counts that matter in terms of the effect that will have on the decisions of individual Members this week. Some will carry on regardless. Some, like Zac, should start looking for a job now.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
I wonder how many people have put their children's names on there? Do you have to be over 18?
I wonder what proportion of the biggest pro-Brexit petition did the same? That got 141k signatures in six months.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
If they don’t like her she will lose her seat.
Only if she joins TIG
My guess is that she is one of the small number of MPs who has a large personal vote. But she’d certainly struggle to hold on if she did leave Labour. I expect all the TIG MPs to lose their seats except, perhaps, Allen, Wollaston and Gapes.
She had the biggest vote in her seat in 2017 for many years, although she'd only held in 2015. And by far the biggest majority.
Will the Democrats tolerate a candidate who is not a culture warrior?
Given Trump's sell is that he is a culture warrior, the Democrats are at least going to need to have someone capable of operating within such a narrative.
Yup, the challenge is that you need to be able to handle yourself against trolling, but also get your message across against a relentless barrage of dead cats.
This is one of the reasons I think the Dems should run KLOBUCHAR: She knows how to respond to trolling with trolling, but also anchor her message in folksy real-world stories that make the distractions look like distractions.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
Well, as we aren't allowed to take the rather obvious step of *asking* people what they want and think because {bad mannered hand wavy shoutiness}, secondary sources like Ms Phillips are the best we can do.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
I wonder how many people have put their children's names on there? Do you have to be over 18?
I wonder what proportion of the biggest pro-Brexit petition did the same? That got 141k signatures in six months.
I hope you're not implying online petitions are some sort of virility test? Probably not that many given the respective ages of brexiteers versus remainers! An online petition is rather silly when you've had a referendum and a general election. But as I say the 'People's Vote' are much more comfortable lobbying MPs than talking to their fellow citizens. And comfort is what seems to matter nowadays.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
I doubt that, but it would probably put the Tories out of power for a very, very long time once Corbyn has gone.
It would be a condition of us rejoining. We’d take it and put off the decision until the time was ripe.
It’s very possible a charismatic centre left leader could succeed in taking us in.
I think that is a very real possibility. If Brexit does cause the damage that many of us fear, it will only take a Blair like figure (without the war mongering bit) to take the helm of Labour and make the case as to why things were much better when we were in the EU. EURef2 will be the one that takes us in with full membership of the Euro, and genuine "ever-closer union".
The "winner takes all, tough titty to you" mentality will be turned on its head. Boy, I will laugh. Leavers will wish they had shown a little more magnanimity in victory back in 2016.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
I doubt that, but it would probably put the Tories out of power for a very, very long time once Corbyn has gone.
It would be a condition of us rejoining. We’d take it and put off the decision until the time was ripe.
It’s very possible a charismatic centre left leader could succeed in taking us in.
I think that is a very real possibility. If Brexit does cause the damage that many of us fear, it will only take a Blair like figure (without the war mongering bit) to take the helm of Labour and make the case as to why things were much better when we were in the EU. EURef2 will be the one that takes us in with full membership of the Euro, and genuine "ever-closer union".
The "winner takes all, tough titty to you" mentality will be turned on its head. Boy, I will laugh. Leavers will wish they had shown a little more magnanimity in victory back in 2016.
You're assuming the EU would want us back. I think they may want a couple of decades on the naughty step first.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
If they don’t like her she will lose her seat.
Only if she joins TIG
My guess is that she is one of the small number of MPs who has a large personal vote. But she’d certainly struggle to hold on if she did leave Labour. I expect all the TIG MPs to lose their seats except, perhaps, Allen, Wollaston and Gapes.
Gapes will lose for sure up against Labour in Ilford South. Allen will hold for sure, unless the LibDems run against her, and even then stands a good chance. Same for Wollaston.
It depends who Labour picks against Gapes. A Corbyn apparatchik would give him a chance. He's been an MP there for a long time, has built his majority considerably and the constituency is a Remain one. I don't think he will win - he'll probably lose, in fact - but unlike most TIGers, he has a sniff. I also reckon that Luciana Berger would have a decent shout in somewhere like Hendon or Bury South.
For the first time Faisal Islam on Sky confirmed the need to take part in the EU elections for a referendum, extension, or GE
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
I wonder how many people have put their children's names on there? Do you have to be over 18?
I wonder what proportion of the biggest pro-Brexit petition did the same? That got 141k signatures in six months.
I hope you're not implying online petitions are some sort of virility test? Probably not that many given the respective ages of brexiteers versus remainers! An online petition is rather silly when you've had a referendum and a general election. But as I say the 'People's Vote' are much more comfortable lobbying MPs than talking to their fellow citizens. And comfort is what seems to matter nowadays.
It is a good indicator of changing views though. It shows greater sense of purpose and motivation, therefore is a reversal of 2016. It will be remainers/rejoiners who are the agitators now. If leavers are so convinced they have the majority of the population behind them they should welcome a re-endorsement, and who, knows they might get it, if they actually had the guts to push for it. If they continue to obstruct it is greater ammunition to the Rejoin movement.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
Well, as we aren't allowed to take the rather obvious step of *asking* people what they want and think because {bad mannered hand wavy shoutiness}, secondary sources like Ms Phillips are the best we can do.
Nope. We already asked them. Once we have enacted that first instruction we can ask them again. Its called democracy.
The more I think about it the harder it is to see how we avoid a No Deal. Should we get to that point, it is essential that a dyed-in-the-wool ERG loon takes control of the government so that it is owned totally by those who have advocated it as the solution. Given that Johnson has made himself so utterly ridiculous that surely not even the Conservative party could want him in charge, Dominic Raab is the man for me. Especially now that he knows Britain is an island off the coast of France.
I favour the most politically sustainable eurosceptical relationship with the EU.
The situation you describe would likely lead to us reentering the EU with bells and whistles within 5 years, and joining the euro.
I doubt that, but it would probably put the Tories out of power for a very, very long time once Corbyn has gone.
It would be a condition of us rejoining. We’d take it and put off the decision until the time was ripe.
It’s very possible a charismatic centre left leader could succeed in taking us in.
I think that is a very real possibility. If Brexit does cause the damage that many of us fear, it will only take a Blair like figure (without the war mongering bit) to take the helm of Labour and make the case as to why things were much better when we were in the EU. EURef2 will be the one that takes us in with full membership of the Euro, and genuine "ever-closer union".
The "winner takes all, tough titty to you" mentality will be turned on its head. Boy, I will laugh. Leavers will wish they had shown a little more magnanimity in victory back in 2016.
You're assuming the EU would want us back. I think they may want a couple of decades on the naughty step first.
I think you may be right. We will have Macron saying "Non", while we beg for re-entry. Still 20 years will only make me 74ish, so hopefully if the NHS hasn't gone into post-brexit meltdown and Corbyn hasn't crashed the economy, I might be alive and well enough to have a good old septuagenarian giggle!
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
If they don’t like her she will lose her seat.
Only if she joins TIG
My guess is that she is one of the small number of MPs who has a large personal vote. But she’d certainly struggle to hold on if she did leave Labour. I expect all the TIG MPs to lose their seats except, perhaps, Allen, Wollaston and Gapes.
Gapes will lose for sure up against Labour in Ilford South. Allen will hold for sure, unless the LibDems run against her, and even then stands a good chance. Same for Wollaston.
It depends who Labour picks against Gapes. A Corbyn apparatchik would give him a chance. He's been an MP there for a long time, has built his majority considerably and the constituency is a Remain one. I don't think he will win - he'll probably lose, in fact - but unlike most TIGers, he has a sniff. I also reckon that Luciana Berger would have a decent shout in somewhere like Hendon or Bury South.
He's a diligent enough guy, but one who spends most of his time sitting on committees and off on foreign affairs trips. He isn't hugely popular in his constituency, and actively unpopular with the left and many of his Muslim voters who haven't forgiven his strong support for the Iraq war. Labour will put up either a leading local Muslim or the Sikh current council leader. Gapes doesn't stand a chance.
But he may not stand - his health is variable and he was rumoured to be resigning next time anyway. The fact that he jumped tends to confirm this.
A Remainer became PM. She cut out her Brexit [ugly word...] secretaries and buggered the negotiations herself. The Commons is mostly pro-EU by a large margin.
You can certainly argue the ERG have been idiotic. And they're, what, 30 MPs?
Blaming Leavers as a group when not one of them has led the shambolic government just seems odd to me. I wanted to leave the EU. I still do. And if I'd been negotiating on behalf of the UK, I'd accept your criticism. But as you've blamed Leave-voters generally, I'm curious what you think I should've done differently.
Before, and immediately after, the result my own view on leaving was very flexible. The only 'red line' I had was no membership of the customs union.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
Well, as we aren't allowed to take the rather obvious step of *asking* people what they want and think because {bad mannered hand wavy shoutiness}, secondary sources like Ms Phillips are the best we can do.
Nope. We already asked them. Once we have enacted that first instruction we can ask them again. Its called democracy.
I am sure had the vote been the other way around Nigel Farage, and most people who share your views might not have been advancing that argument.
Good to see it sinking in. This is probably the only absolutely non-negotiable EU red line. If we don’t return MEPs we’re out, no ifs no buts no maybes. Without our MEPs with us still a member the Parliament isn’t properly constituted and the whole law making process stops.
Yes, this could turn out to be extremely important. Westminster has not cottoned onto this as yet.
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
The petition is slowing down, as one would expect. There were probably some people at the march who hadnt heard about it and signed when they got home, which kept the rate up yesterday. It would be suspicious if it didn't slow down now!
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
Some of my friends are suffering from severe Brexititis and have turned off all R4 and TV news. They'd not heard of the petition until I phoned them just now. I think people like this plus their friends and relatives will keep the petition going up by maybe 100,000s per day, but surely it'll level off rapidly. It would be extraordinary if it reached 8-10M.
Obviously I have some partiality in this as a Remainer, but I'm not sure about that. Its opponents were predicting a ceiling of around 6-8 million only last week, and it's already reaching the lower end of that. I don't think it's diverged from between about half a million and one a half million a day since it started, although someone may be able to correct me.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
It looks like it’s plateauing out to me, but i don’t know what the ceiling would be. I’d be very surprised if it got to 8 million.
I don't think it will reach 7 million. Might just be able to reach 6 million.
At the current rate it will reach 6 million by midday tomorrow - let's say by the end of tomorrow to recognise the rate is not the same overnight.
Has anybody else been afflicted by Brexit Madness to the same degree as Andrew Adonis? He used to be regarded as a "wise man", now he's gone full moonbat.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
Well, as we aren't allowed to take the rather obvious step of *asking* people what they want and think because {bad mannered hand wavy shoutiness}, secondary sources like Ms Phillips are the best we can do.
Nope. We already asked them. Once we have enacted that first instruction we can ask them again. Its called democracy.
Ms Phillips is doing what I would expect her to do, as an 'old-fashioned', honourable constituency MP; use the specialist knowledge she has gained as an MP to represent the best interests of her constituents, regardless of whether it is what they, from time to time, agree with.
I am sure she will take the opportunity to tell them that not only are they wrong in what they think but in fact they don't think that at all.
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
Well, as we aren't allowed to take the rather obvious step of *asking* people what they want and think because {bad mannered hand wavy shoutiness}, secondary sources like Ms Phillips are the best we can do.
Nope. We already asked them. Once we have enacted that first instruction we can ask them again. Its called democracy.
On that basis we cannot have another GE until these Tory manifesto pledges are delivered...
I don't think it will reach 7 million. Might just be able to reach 6 million.
I think it will almost certainly get to 6 million but most likely not get to 7 million, based on the first and second derivatives of the number of signatures.
Comments
Re ; a query on the earlier thread about the petition, it seems to have settled into a pattern of about a million a day for the moment - probably hitting the six million mark by the end of today, I think.
It could have been pulled because May has been pushed into coming out for full on no deal (which seems very unlikely).
It could have been pulled because the government realises that Cooper/Letwin is inevitable and they want to avoid the humiliation of their own plan being replaced by the MPs' plan. Which seems more likely than either of the above.
Or, possibly, that Boles and Co. have kicked up a fuss about Common Market 2 not being in their list, and they are having an urgent rethink.
Sometimes the personal does matter more than the political
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/102767/labour-general-secretary-jennie-formby-diagnosed
Why do we have law makers which can't follow simple logic progression, and seemingly have a different reality to the rest of us?
I don't think the EU elections in themselves is a critical issue - a long extension creates big political problems for the Tories, elections or no. Hence why May was stopped from asking for it when she wanted to. It is, however, what we need and starting to look very likely. So the Tories are going to have to face their demons sooner or later. Meaning sooner.
https://twitter.com/JamesOBonkers/status/1110101469020254208
Absolute scenes.
[Possible she didn't, I don't know, but the vast majority of MPs did].
I am happy with May’s Deal and the aspirations of the FTA political declaration.
He won’t now be impeached and the fundamentals for his reelection campaign couldn’t be better for him.
I think what will determine its final numbers is its level of urgency people perceive in relation events this week, and how things turn out.
Incidentally:
Moses syndrome
(1) A delusion characterized by uncritical belief in the promises of others to lead one to the Promised Land, e.g., to beauty, youth, wealth, power, peace of mind, or happiness. (2) A delusion characterized by the belief that one has been chosen by a god, destiny, or history to lead others to the Promised Land, e.g., some goal such as "putting the sciences on a firm foundation" (Descartes) or belief in such things as "the eternal law of nature that gives Germany as the stronger power the right before history to subjugate these peoples of inferior race, to dominate them and to coerce them into performing useful labors" (Hitler).
That's far better than the I'm voting this way as my constituents are asking me to (that excuse to me is a grade A cop-out)...
Aren't we all lucky to have MPs to let us know what we really want and think.
Very, very sad
(Edit...typo)
However, there was a referendum held with the public being told the electorate's decision would decide the matter. That referendum had a majority in the Commons and a large majority also backed triggering Article 50.
Asking the electorate to decide something and then deciding to ignore them is a very dangerous game to play.
Getting 400 odd a minute atm, was 600 yesterday evening
It’s very possible a charismatic centre left leader could succeed in taking us in.
Yes, sorry, I meant since its publicity went nuclear last week. Since then it's seemed pretty steady. It may seem disproportionate to spend so long discussing it, but as others have mentioned, whether it seems stuck at a ceiling one would associate with certain parts of the country, or moves beyond that, in the current febrile political climate could have some impact.
Most of the most enthusiastic have now already signed, and it will start to Peter out.
https://twitter.com/danieljhannan/status/1110120816597975040?s=21
But if there’s a second referendum, it’ll (again) be won or lost on Facebook.
"Majestic Wine has announced plans to revamp its business by closing some of its 200 stores"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47691075
This is one of the reasons I think the Dems should run KLOBUCHAR: She knows how to respond to trolling with trolling, but also anchor her message in folksy real-world stories that make the distractions look like distractions.
The "winner takes all, tough titty to you" mentality will be turned on its head. Boy, I will laugh. Leavers will wish they had shown a little more magnanimity in victory back in 2016.
https://twitter.com/bexin2d/status/1110111515208749057
But he may not stand - his health is variable and he was rumoured to be resigning next time anyway. The fact that he jumped tends to confirm this.
A Remainer became PM. She cut out her Brexit [ugly word...] secretaries and buggered the negotiations herself. The Commons is mostly pro-EU by a large margin.
You can certainly argue the ERG have been idiotic. And they're, what, 30 MPs?
Blaming Leavers as a group when not one of them has led the shambolic government just seems odd to me. I wanted to leave the EU. I still do. And if I'd been negotiating on behalf of the UK, I'd accept your criticism. But as you've blamed Leave-voters generally, I'm curious what you think I should've done differently.
Before, and immediately after, the result my own view on leaving was very flexible. The only 'red line' I had was no membership of the customs union.
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110121231037149184
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/21/seven-manifesto-pledges-theresa-may-had-axe-queens-speech-election/
Equally May's Deal hasn't a hope in hell (well a 0.0001% at best) chance of winning a vote..
So what do you do when the best option isn't available and the other favourite / default option is a gamble too far...