I think Gove or Lidington have what it takes. The latter is more likely to be acceptable to a broader cross-party spectrum, and stabilise the Conservative image.
Gove isn't trusted as much and has too much baggage, but no doubt will have creative solutions.
Gove has the Nixon in a China advantage - he is better placed to tell some hard truths about the long extension and the Euro elections. Lidlington doing the same would be in a more precarious position.
We haven’t left yet , and everyone I speak to just wants the vote honoured and done . It’s called democracy and parliament has tried to thwart it and block the clear instruction given by the people’s vote, You might be happy to sell your country’s sovereignty out the window to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels but most of us like to hold those we lend power to , to be accountable to us
You keep repeating this tosh, I'll keep replying that: 1. Parliament has not tried to thwart the referendum result. It's spent the last 2+ years trying to work out how to enact that result. There was a vote a few days ago regarding a 2nd referendum and it was heavily defeated. 2. Britain remains a sovereign nation. One safeguard of this is that our government selects our EU commissioner, rather than his being elected. The fact that he is unelected does not equate to a lack of democracy.
I refer to my previous posting of the excellent speech by Tony Benn (and I am not a socialist)about the lack of democracy in Brussels https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U
From those I've spoken to who also attended the big anti Iraq war march in 2003 reckon that this was on about the same scale if not a bit more. Just fewer Socialist Worker sellers
So what , the silent majority just vote peacefully in the ballot box and don’t shout or march because they lost. What we need right now is TM to resign, a new PM who actually campaigned to leave the EU and a fresh General Election , to get a decent majority to get brexit through and purge parliament of the Tiggers and the sour grapes remainers
How did that go last time? LOL!
Last time we had a PM who'd actually campaigned to leave the EU? I don't know, do you?
Technically, 2005 (assuming you are not asking for someone who campaigned to leave Europe whilst Prime Minister): he was first elected on a manifesto to leave the EEC in 1983 (although to be fair, he may not have "actually campaigned" in support of that manifesto commitment). I don't think there has ever been a sitting PM who has campaigned, whilst PM, to leave Europe (by which I mean EEC, EC or EU).
From those I've spoken to who also attended the big anti Iraq war march in 2003 reckon that this was on about the same scale if not a bit more. Just fewer Socialist Worker sellers
So what , the silent majority just vote peacefully in the ballot box and don’t shout or march because they lost. What we need right now is TM to resign, a new PM who actually campaigned to leave the EU and a fresh General Election , to get a decent majority to get brexit through and purge parliament of the Tiggers and the sour grapes remainers
How did that go last time? LOL!
Last time we had a PM who'd actually campaigned to leave the EU? I don't know, do you?
Technically, 2005 (assuming you are not asking for someone who campaigned to leave Europe whilst Prime Minister): he was first elected on a manifesto to leave the EEC in 1983 (although to be fair, he may not have "actually campaigned" in support of that manifesto commitment). I don't think there has ever been a sitting PM who has campaigned, whilst PM, to leave Europe (by which I mean EEC, EC or EU).
It won't work, given she won the confidence vote late last year May cannot be challenged again until December. If she goes before then it will be entirely down to her and as we know she is as stubborn as a mule
She can't be deposed as leader but she can be deposed as PM.
Tory MPs are not going to VONC the government now and risk Corbyn as PM which would ensure SM and/or CU BINO or EUref2
Interim leader kinda makes sense - none of the real candidates want the mess to stick to them, and the caretaker can try appear somewhat apolitical wrt Brexity stuff.
ps didn't someone here have Lidders at ~ ten billion to one?
His price has collapsed to less than 8/1 as next PM in the last few minutes.
If I were Alastair I would lay off some profit. A shame to see a great bet go down the pan if the Mail on Sunday is right.
It won't work, given she won the confidence vote late last year May cannot be challenged again until December. If she goes before then it will be entirely down to her and as we know she is as stubborn as a mule
She can't be deposed as leader but she can be deposed as PM.
Um, can she? She can't be forced to resign. Historically the process is:
a) PM loses a VONC or GE. b) Somebody else commands the confidence of the house c) PM resigns d) That somebody else is appointed PM by HMQ
Are we really going to put the Queen in a position where she has to appoint somebody whose ability to command the house is at the very least unproven?
Theresa May could head off the coup by backing a second referendum.
Whilst simultaneously completely finishing off her credibility by still being PM whilst the country goes to the EU Parliament elections despite her pretty much saying that she'd never do that as PM? Well, I suppose she's shrugged off worse.
I really don't think the Tory members and backbenchers will stand for this.
They'll be threats of the whole government being VONC if there's not a full leadership contest IMO.
The idea is that there will be a contest...but after someone sorts out the next fortnight's business. Either of Lidlington, Hunt or Gove stands more chance of doing so than the current PriMino.
How can they install anyone as interim leader? The Tory leadership rules are clear and they do not allow for any such arrangement. If May resigns as leader a new leadership election is triggered.
He means interim PM
Well that would be a novelty! The worst crisis since 1945 and the Tories offer us a temp! If a new PM wins a vote of confidence - quite a big if I would think - then they are in the job until the Commons or the electorate decides differently. Interim PM indeed - the idea is preposterous and an insult to the electorate. If the Tories are unable to govern in the usual way then they should resign and give the opposition a chance.
We haven’t left yet , and everyone I speak to just wants the vote honoured and done . It’s called democracy and parliament has tried to thwart it and block the clear instruction given by the people’s vote, You might be happy to sell your country’s sovereignty out the window to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels but most of us like to hold those we lend power to , to be accountable to us
There are a lot of unsupported assumptions in this post. I’m not sure where to start. Everyone I speak to wants the whole thing called off as a disaster. We move in very different circles it seems.
I’d remind you that the current elected Parliament has a fresher deomocratic mandate than the referendum. Parliament is made up of its members, who are ultimately responsible to their constituents and their constituents alone. They don’t like what they are doing then they will remove them. That’s how a parliamentary democracy in our system works. My home town of Canterbury had a Brexiteer MP form30 years and a Tory MP forever, the remain voters threw him out in 2017 to thwart Brexit. That’s democracy. An MP for Aberdeen should not be bound by voters from Acton. If they don’t like what he does they’ll remove him. You want a different system of direct democracy, then propose it and work for it.
In any event most HAVE been working for Brexit. Just not the version you regard as real. Micheal Gove, Nigel Farafe and Boris Johnson each disagree as to what Brexit means? How should Parliament then decide what this “instruction” is? Leaving without a deal was ruled out by the official Leave campaign. There’s a way out of the EU, however, the but leaver MPs refuse to take it. Their problem and yours - not mine.
I don’t like the way the EU works, and would be delighted with an EEA/EFTA Brexit (which I appreciate you don’t regard as Brexit at all for some reason), but while bills through our Parliament require the consent of the House of Lords and the Queen, you might want to be careful where you pitch those “undemocratic” stones.
Nevertheless if people clearly have changed their minds, it would makes no sense to go through with the original decision regardless, particularly since it wasn't accompanied by any actual plan.
It was clear there was no plan when the people voted for it. It was inevitable some would change their minds. The government, knowing both of these outcomes were inevitable in the event of a yes vote, made it clear they would follow through regardless of said trifles.
It won't work, given she won the confidence vote late last year May cannot be challenged again until December. If she goes before then it will be entirely down to her and as we know she is as stubborn as a mule
She can't be deposed as leader but she can be deposed as PM.
Um, can she? She can't be forced to resign. Historically the process is:
a) PM loses a VONC or GE. b) Somebody else commands the confidence of the house c) PM resigns d) That somebody else is appointed PM by HMQ
Are we really going to put the Queen in a position where she has to appoint somebody whose ability to command the house is at the very least unproven?
One of the anachronisms of the FTPA is that we have reverted to the 19th century. Loss of a VoC puts us into a process potentially leading to an election but it neither necessarily results in the fall of the Government or the PM. The PM could carry on, throw some more wonga across the Irish Sea, and ask for a re-vote: she's got form in that regard. Alternatively, she could resign. This would not necessarily constitute the resignation of the Government. But an outgoing PM's final role is to advise Her Majesty for whom she should call. These days, typically, it is the incoming winner of the leadership election. But that has not always been the case. No PM would do anything to embarass the Queen - so, for example, she would not resign whilst there was no obvious alternative. In the present case, it is quite clear that Mr Corbyn could not command the confidence of the House and it would embarass the Queen if Mrs May were to advise that she should call for Mr Corbyn. So one is left with two options: Mrs May continues in office until the time period expires; or she does what happened in the past and provides Her Majesty with her best advice, which in this case is that the Queen should call for a senior minister to act, in effect, as a 'caretaker' (although he or she would be PM-in-full, because there is no such concept as an "acting PM"). In practical terms, it would be better if the nominee were the agreed choice of the Cabinet. Moreover, given that a leadership election will follow, it would help party management if the proposed PM were to publically state that he or she had no intention of running for leader and, upon the election of a successor, would (if still PM) resign and advise Her Majesty to call for the winning candidate, thereby preventing allegations of a chosen candidate's being given a head start.
Weirdly, I dreamed through this scenario last night.
There are a lot of unsupported assumptions in this post. I’m not sure where to start. Everyone I speak to wants the whole thing called off as a disaster. We move in very different circles it seems.
I’d remind you that the current elected Parliament has a fresher deomocratic mandate than the referendum. Parliament is made up of its members, who are ultimately responsible to their constituents and their constituents alone. They don’t like what they are doing then they will remove them. That’s how a parliamentary democracy in our system works. My home town of Canterbury had a Brexiteer MP form30 years and a Tory MP forever, the remain voters threw him out in 2017 to thwart Brexit. That’s democracy. An MP for Aberdeen should not be bound by voters from Acton. If they don’t like what he does they’ll remove him. You want a different system of direct democracy, then propose it and work for it.
In any event most HAVE been working for Brexit. Just not the version you regard as real. Micheal Gove, Nigel Farafe and Boris Johnson each disagree as to what Brexit means? How should Parliament then decide what this “instruction” is? Leaving without a deal was ruled out by the official Leave campaign. There’s a way out of the EU, however, the but leaver MPs refuse to take it. Their problem and yours - not mine.
I don’t like the way the EU works, and would be delighted with an EEA/EFTA Brexit (which I appreciate you don’t regard as Brexit at all for some reason), but while bills through our Parliament require the consent of the House of Lords and the Queen, you might want to be careful where you pitch those “undemocratic” stones.
Doug, what your post ignores - and I realise that may be because you attach no weight to it whereas I do - is that a large majority of those MPs who were elected in 2017 stood on both personal and party manifestos that were explicit that they would honour the result of the referendum. Now I do realise we tend to excuse party manifestos, though to be honest I don't think we should, but personal manifestos cannot be excused so easily. With the honourable exception of Ken Clarke and the SNP, practically every notable Remain campaigner had a statement in their personal manifestos that they would support Brexit. That includes all three of the TIG Tories.
So I would suggest that even if we say that they are at liberty to ignore their manifestos, the 2017 democratic mandate you mention was clearly based upon promises from all those MPs that they would vote in Parliament for us to Leave the EU.
I do however agree with you about the preferred destination.
Comments
https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U
But, I understand from his twitter feed that Shippers has spoken to nearly a dozen cabinet ministers today who've all said the same thing.
I'm already very red on both though (and JRM) so I don't have much headroom to trade.
They'll be threats of the whole government being VONC if there's not a full leadership contest IMO.
a) PM loses a VONC or GE.
b) Somebody else commands the confidence of the house
c) PM resigns
d) That somebody else is appointed PM by HMQ
Are we really going to put the Queen in a position where she has to appoint somebody whose ability to command the house is at the very least unproven?
NEW THREAD
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It would make me sick to put any money on Gove, but I might have to.
Bet only with your head.
I’d remind you that the current elected Parliament has a fresher deomocratic mandate than the referendum. Parliament is made up of its members, who are ultimately responsible to their constituents and their constituents alone. They don’t like what they are doing then they will remove them. That’s how a parliamentary democracy in our system works. My home town of Canterbury had a Brexiteer MP form30 years and a Tory MP forever, the remain voters threw him out in 2017 to thwart Brexit. That’s democracy. An MP for Aberdeen should not be bound by voters from Acton. If they don’t like what he does they’ll remove him. You want a different system of direct democracy, then propose it and work for it.
In any event most HAVE been working for Brexit. Just not the version you regard as real. Micheal Gove, Nigel Farafe and Boris Johnson each disagree as to what Brexit means? How should Parliament then decide what this “instruction” is? Leaving without a deal was ruled out by the official Leave campaign. There’s a way out of the EU, however, the but leaver MPs refuse to take it. Their problem and yours - not mine.
I don’t like the way the EU works, and would be delighted with an EEA/EFTA Brexit (which I appreciate you don’t regard as Brexit at all for some reason), but while bills through our Parliament require the consent of the House of Lords and the Queen, you might want to be careful where you pitch those “undemocratic” stones.
Weirdly, I dreamed through this scenario last night.
I'll get my coat and banner ..
So I would suggest that even if we say that they are at liberty to ignore their manifestos, the 2017 democratic mandate you mention was clearly based upon promises from all those MPs that they would vote in Parliament for us to Leave the EU.
I do however agree with you about the preferred destination.