If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.
The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.
Sure, people shouldn’t have expected parliament to actually do what it was told by the public.
Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament. I thought people wanted our parliament to be sovereign?
There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.
The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.
I admit that I am amazed at the behaviour of people like Christopher Chope, Mark Francois, Andrea Jenkyns. I thought that they would be willing to take Yes for an answer.
As Raphael Behr has written well, many people have refused to accept that Brexit would have to be a process, rather than a permanent "cause". Once the cause had to turned into a process by necessity, it was no longer the absolute, pure, thing and cause, leaving people either to withdraw from it, or persist with the illusion of purer moral certainty being located somewhere just over the hill.
Self-obsessed posturing is so much easier and more fun than constructive work.
Lord only knows. The only safe prediction is that Theresa Mat will say nothing has changed and that There Is No Alternative to her deal.
The other important point to note is that the EU are going to be no more reassured that parliament is capable of deciding on anything than they were before. No Deal exit on 29th March is therefore still a significant risk.
It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
And you'd have to hand it to her if she does. It's no coincidence the Tories are surging in the polls. Much of the country I think respects what she's trying to do.
And the Tories want shut of her, with no credible alternative waiting in the wings!
There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament.
Both Labour and Conservative manifestos included a pledge to implement Brexit. Now ERG and Labour MPs are doing the exact opposite.
Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
You are underestimating him again.
Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
I think the shine has worn off, but the past three years have shown he is a formidable campaigner with a hide like a rhinoceros.
There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
You are underestimating him again.
Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament.
Both Labour and Conservative manifestos included a pledge to implement Brexit. Now ERG and Labour MPs are doing the exact opposite.
Give over. You know that our system is inherently dishonest in the fact many people would have voted Tory or Labour regardless of what their manifestos said as anything else is more often than not a wasted vote.
There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
In some alternate universe there was no Dementia Tax, no slip-ups, just a handful of easy-to-understand populist policies... May won big and Brexit was done and dusted a long time ago.
There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
Cannot say I expected that outcome. Well, Parliament has spoken, which everyone supports of course. Unless we rerun this one before we rerun the MV - everyone gets 2 or 3 goes I guess.
Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
You are underestimating him again.
Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
I think the shine has worn off, but the past three years have shown he is a formidable campaigner with a hide like a rhinoceros.
Unfortunately for the country he has a brain that goes with the same animal
There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
In some alternate universe there was no Dementia Tax, no slip-ups, just a handful of easy-to-understand populist policies... May won big and Brexit was done and dusted a long time ago.
Sigh.
yup
the tories just cant get their heads round looking after the voters
Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
You are underestimating him again.
Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament.
Both Labour and Conservative manifestos included a pledge to implement Brexit. Now ERG and Labour MPs are doing the exact opposite.
Give over. You know that our system is inherently dishonest in the fact many people would have voted Tory or Labour regardless of what their manifestos said as anything else is more often than not a wasted vote.
Hard to argue with that. Especially when people, even MPs, get mad at others for following official policy!
Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
You are underestimating him again.
Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
How many times have you been wrong so far.
Lab leadership 1 & 2
GE 2017
How many times has the far left been wrong? Too many times to count, and yet they keep hanging around like a bad smell...
We just came within one Government defection of a fundamental constitutional question, and quite possibly the final outcome of Brexit, being decided by the vote of a convicted perjurer who is only out of prison because her mitigation included the likelihood of losing her MP status, and the casting vote of the most partisan speaker in living memory.
Just delaying the inevitable, if Parliament votes for extension of Article 50 tonight but still refuses to back May's Deal or No Deal the EU will want an indication of what Parliament will back before a significant extension is granted. 2 votes is also a closer margin than the previous Benn amemdments
It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
The DUP will inevitably fall into line. If May could find it in herself to give Parliament some say in the negotiation of the final deal with the EU, a number of Labour MPs would get her over the line.
"As Western civilization declines or at least frays at the edges, the ways our culture has developed to deal with the gap in the attractiveness distribution are receding and dying. Young people enter the equality-inducing institution of monogamy later and later or not at all, spending more time in a chaotically unequal polygynous dating world. Monogamy itself is weaker, as divorce becomes easier and even married people often report encountering “dead bedrooms” in which one or both spouses feel no obligation to give a partner who they do not regard as sufficiently attractive access to sexual experiences. Religious belief is in constant decline, and with it declines the belief in the dignity of celibacy or the importance of anything other than hedonism (sexual or otherwise). Even fairy tales that for centuries helped us understand how to live charitably with each other are disavowed and cultural tastemakers like Time Magazine and the BBC denigrate them as sexist.
The result of these cultural changes is that the highly unequal social structures of the prehistoric savanna homo sapiens are reasserting themselves, and with them the dissatisfactions of the unattractive “sexually underprivileged” majority are coming back. It is ironic that the progressives who cheer on the decline of religion and the weakening of “outdated” institutions like monogamy are actually acting as the ultimate reactionaries, returning us to the oldest and most barbaric, unequal animal social structures that have ever existed. In this case it is the conservatives who are cheering for the progressive ideal of “sexual income redistribution” through a novel invention: monogamy."
You're in denial. The article is scientifically correct. The sort of society being supported by progressives is making life less equal for many, if not most, people.
ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol
Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?
And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.
We are led by imbeciles.
Think yourself lucky we haven't got 650 Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezs
Why? – nowt wrong with AOC. She has got serious game and would one considered a centre-left moderate were she European.
AOC is no 'centre-left moderate' she has trashed Reagan and wants a 70% top income tax rate, she is far left even by UK standards and practically Communist by US standards
It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
The DUP will inevitably fall into line. If May could find it in herself to give Parliament some say in the negotiation of the final deal with the EU, a number of Labour MPs would get her over the line.
For the first, that's been predicted before. For the second, yes, opening up to the same mess we're in right now will be very popular with May I am sure.
If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.
The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.
You consider that the only plausible Leave position is for unconditional support for any version including May's deal. That incomplete agreement would tie the UK even closer to the EU than it is now since the A50 has disappeared in perpetuity, with even less decision making influence, having already thrown away all our best cards for the conclusions of the meat of any future trade agreement such that we are held hostage in general or face the break up of the UK.
I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
We just came within one Government defection of a fundamental constitutional question, and quite possibly the final outcome of Brexit, being decided by the vote of a convicted perjurer who is only out of prison because her mitigation included the likelihood of losing her MP status, and the casting vote of the most partisan speaker in living memory.
Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
You are underestimating him again.
Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
How many times have you been wrong so far.
Lab leadership 1 & 2
GE 2017
He lost the GE. Maybe you didn't notice.
You thought he would gain seats wipe out the Tory majority and increase the Lab vote by largest amount since 1945?
I think your wishful thinking may let you down again sometime soon.
If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.
The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.
For better or worse depending on your viewpoint, you do have my position absolutely right. That said even my imagination would be strained by what we have now.
I had fully expected that my preferred course of EFTA/EEA would be defeated as it is not one that is widely popular - or at least wasn't.
I had been prepared for either a softer or harder Brexit depending on who had the upper hand and (oh foolish me) the best arguments.
I had been prepared for a No Deal Brexit which, although I don't believe would be anywhere near as bad as claimed, would still not be great and would certainly be disruptive.
I had even understood that someone, somehow, would be able to engineer things so we didn't actually leave. Though I thought that one very unlikely.
But, even as someone who regards politicians somewhere between dog crap and discarded chewing gum, I had not believed they could make such a complete and utter clusterf*ck of things as they have. When both die hard remainers and die hard leavers (as well as Diehard Christmas movie fans) are looking on in mutual disbelief at the mess these people are making of it, you know there is something seriously wrong with our Parliamentarians as a species. .
If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.
The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.
You consider that the only plausible Leave position is for unconditional support for any version including May's deal. That incomplete agreement would tie the UK even closer to the EU than it is now since the A50 has disappeared in perpetuity, with even less decision making influence, having already thrown away all our best cards for the conclusions of the meat of any future trade agreement such that we are held hostage in general or face the break up of the UK.
I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
If you remain now then in effect you Remain forever.
If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.
The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.
You consider that the only plausible Leave position is for unconditional support for any version including May's deal. That incomplete agreement would tie the UK even closer to the EU than it is now since the A50 has disappeared in perpetuity, with even less decision making influence, having already thrown away all our best cards for the conclusions of the meat of any future trade agreement such that we are held hostage in general or face the break up of the UK.
I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
If you remain now then in effect you Remain forever.
That's a risk but I'm not sure leaving without enough care of attention only to have little choice but to beg to go back in is a better option...
It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
And you'd have to hand it to her if she does. It's no coincidence the Tories are surging in the polls. Much of the country I think respects what she's trying to do.
And the Tories want shut of her, with no credible alternative waiting in the wings!
Utter bollox, it is just that they are all thicker than mince and have no clue what they are doing. It has nothing to do with the clusterfcuk that she has produced. I know what the only thing I would hand to her is.
You're in denial. The article is scientifically correct. The sort of society being supported by progressives is making life less equal for many, if not most, people.
The basic thrust - excuse the phrasing - of the article is that there are two separate economies for dating, a man will mostly date any woman while for most women, the bottom 80% of men are invisible.
Ignore the headline, the truly fascinating thing buried in that article is that the historical norm is for five women to reproduce for every one man. The last couple of hundred years have been a deviation from the historical norm.
You're in denial. The article is scientifically correct. The sort of society being supported by progressives is making life less equal for many, if not most, people.
The basic thrust - excuse the phrasing - of the article is that there are two separate economies for dating, a man will mostly date any woman while for most women, the bottom 80% of men are invisible.
Ignore the headline, the truly fascinating thing buried in that article is that the historical norm is for five women to reproduce for every one man. The last couple of hundred years have been a deviation from the historical norm.
Except the evidence of our eyes is that even the least promising of men in terms of ugliness, lack of character or personality manage to reproduce, albeit often without any long term relationship. You see it all the time. Clearly a lot of women have pretty low standards!
Comments
It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
The other important point to note is that the EU are going to be no more reassured that parliament is capable of deciding on anything than they were before. No Deal exit on 29th March is therefore still a significant risk.
And the Tories want shut of her, with no credible alternative waiting in the wings!
Which isn't unknown from our politicians.
Lab leadership 1 & 2
GE 2017
We know Labour voters are mostly for Remain.
Sigh.
the tories just cant get their heads round looking after the voters
Bryant withdraws
Oh dear.
But it won't be her problem, so why not?
I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
I think your wishful thinking may let you down again sometime soon.
Especially if Shit Tory BREXIT passes
I had fully expected that my preferred course of EFTA/EEA would be defeated as it is not one that is widely popular - or at least wasn't.
I had been prepared for either a softer or harder Brexit depending on who had the upper hand and (oh foolish me) the best arguments.
I had been prepared for a No Deal Brexit which, although I don't believe would be anywhere near as bad as claimed, would still not be great and would certainly be disruptive.
I had even understood that someone, somehow, would be able to engineer things so we didn't actually leave. Though I thought that one very unlikely.
But, even as someone who regards politicians somewhere between dog crap and discarded chewing gum, I had not believed they could make such a complete and utter clusterf*ck of things as they have. When both die hard remainers and die hard leavers (as well as Diehard Christmas movie fans) are looking on in mutual disbelief at the mess these people are making of it, you know there is something seriously wrong with our Parliamentarians as a species. .
This is a return to the historical norm.
https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success
Ignore the headline, the truly fascinating thing buried in that article is that the historical norm is for five women to reproduce for every one man. The last couple of hundred years have been a deviation from the historical norm.