I'm trying to piece together how this progresses based on today's vote and May's Tuesday night statement:
1. Today's vote: technical vote acknowledging and agreeing drivers for extension, but not forcing it. Amendment to full blown vote then rejection .possible. 2. SIs removing No Deal default as much as practicable from UK legislation. (Gov whip for, poss Fri sitting?) 3. MV3, acknowledging change of circumstances by removal of no deal 4. If MV3 fails, indicative rule in/out votes on extension reasons - e.g further negotiation around current WA, switch to CU, Second Referendum on current options. Preferred option selected. (Here by 21/3!!!) 5. Ask EU for extension, if fails..... 6. MV4: explicitly stating that revocation will be result of MV4 failure. 7. If MV4 passes, second request for technical extension. Surely granted!!
I'm trying to piece together how this progresses based on today's vote and May's Tuesday night statement:
1. Today's vote: technical vote acknowledging and agreeing drivers for extension, but not forcing it. Amendment to full blown vote then rejection .possible. 2. SIs removing No Deal default as much as practicable from UK legislation. (Gov whip for, poss Fri sitting?) 3. MV3, acknowledging change of circumstances by removal of no deal 4. If MV3 fails, indicative rule in/out votes on extension reasons - e.g further negotiation around current WA, switch to CU, Second Referendum on current options. Preferred option selected. (Here by 21/3!!!) 5. Ask EU for extension, if fails..... 6. MV4: explicitly stating that revocation will be result of MV4 failure. 7. If MV4 passes, second request for technical extension. Surely granted!!
Thoughts?
Maybe. But I suspect 2 won't happen until something's changed at A50 level.
And while the reality of the situation (ie May still thinks the deal is alive) might dictate such a timetable, I remain to be convinced that losses of 200+ and 149 are overturnable. Even if 70 MPs are willing to come up with a convincing excuse for 180deg turn, will another 5 - without a remainer leak at the other end?
Sky reporting they are surprised how many are saying to their reporters how much they support TM and affirming that she is the only grown up in this
Also seeing this on the doorstep.
Explains how the Tory poll rating holds up.
Most socialists I’ve met find Corbyn’s position laughable. Seriously.
Yes, anecdotally I often hear the same. From a distance she is a decent woman struggling in an almost impossible position. Her strategic misjudgements are only really apparent to those following the story closely.
The logic being of course that if the Tories turf her out they might be in for a shock from the polls following.
I lost any respect for her last night. From giving a free vote on the No Deal motion and stating she'd vote against No Deal, to whipping for No Deal as soon as her weasel words were removed...
No. I used to think that when push came to shove, she'd choose whatever she saw as best for the country over best for her Party. Now, I do not. I have no doubt she believes No Deal would be disruptive, painful, catastrophic to a significant chunk of her people, but that she sees the alternative as catastrophic for her Party. And now I believe she'll choose her Party over her people.
The likeliest Brexit outcome now is probably the Commons votes for extension and SM and Customs Union BINO, in which case Boris might be needed to stop Tory Leavers leaking to the Brexit Party and UKIP
For about the thousandth time, you do not get to “SM,CU and BINO” without voting for the withdrawal agreement. The WA is the WA, the rest is the future trading Agreement.
You do if extension and the EU makes the appropriate tweaks to the WA to accept the fact the Commons has voted to stay in the single market and Customs Union with free movement etc (EU immigration has fallen since the vote anyway)
I'm trying to piece together how this progresses based on today's vote and May's Tuesday night statement:
1. Today's vote: technical vote acknowledging and agreeing drivers for extension, but not forcing it. Amendment to full blown vote then rejection .possible. 2. SIs removing No Deal default as much as practicable from UK legislation. (Gov whip for, poss Fri sitting?) 3. MV3, acknowledging change of circumstances by removal of no deal 4. If MV3 fails, indicative rule in/out votes on extension reasons - e.g further negotiation around current WA, switch to CU, Second Referendum on current options. Preferred option selected. (Here by 21/3!!!) 5. Ask EU for extension, if fails..... 6. MV4: explicitly stating that revocation will be result of MV4 failure. 7. If MV4 passes, second request for technical extension. Surely granted!!
Thoughts?
Maybe. But I suspect 2 won't happen until something's changed at A50 level.
And while the reality of the situation (ie May still thinks the deal is alive) might dictate such a timetable, I remain to be convinced that losses of 200+ and 149 are overturnable. Even if 70 MPs are willing to come up with a convincing excuse for 180deg turn, will another 5 - without a remainer leak at the other end?
I wondered where to put the SIs, I plumped for early in the end as I thought they might represent a mind focusser for MV3.
Playing devils advocate, if that included trade deal negotiations then in theory you could get away with running with this rather than agreeing the WA and The Backstop Of Doom, surely?
Mr. Glenn, he did say that, and many people (including me) pointed out that was an insane perspective (not least because he'd be advocating a course of action diametrically opposing that for which he was actually campaigning).
And yet without that reflexive response to Cameron's renegotiation - "Vote Leave to show them we're serious" - the campaign might have panned out very differently.
I'm trying to piece together how this progresses based on today's vote and May's Tuesday night statement:
1. Today's vote: technical vote acknowledging and agreeing drivers for extension, but not forcing it. Amendment to full blown vote then rejection .possible. 2. SIs removing No Deal default as much as practicable from UK legislation. (Gov whip for, poss Fri sitting?) 3. MV3, acknowledging change of circumstances by removal of no deal 4. If MV3 fails, indicative rule in/out votes on extension reasons - e.g further negotiation around current WA, switch to CU, Second Referendum on current options. Preferred option selected. (Here by 21/3!!!) 5. Ask EU for extension, if fails..... 6. MV4: explicitly stating that revocation will be result of MV4 failure. 7. If MV4 passes, second request for technical extension. Surely granted!!
Thoughts?
Maybe. But I suspect 2 won't happen until something's changed at A50 level.
And while the reality of the situation (ie May still thinks the deal is alive) might dictate such a timetable, I remain to be convinced that losses of 200+ and 149 are overturnable. Even if 70 MPs are willing to come up with a convincing excuse for 180deg turn, will another 5 - without a remainer leak at the other end?
I wondered where to put the SIs, I plumped for early in the end as I thought they might represent a mind focusser for MV3.
To be honest, I suspect "I wonder where to put the SIs" is probably a common refrain round Whitehall at the moment
Even with a tech extension, I hope someone's pressed the FF button on the usual pace of government!
This is absolute tosh but presumably it makes you feel better about being undemocratic.
Stopping a No Deal Brexit honours the referendum result.
My piece on Sunday has over 100 links to Vote Leave saying No Deal wouldn’t happen.
No it doesn't. The vote was to leave. The argument is or should be how and on what terms not if.
I don't want a no deal Brexit but it reflects the vote far more than remaining. It is absurd to say otherwise. Your logic is that people were unable to recognise that there was a risk that we would be unable to come to a satisfactory deal with the EU. I just don't believe that. They may have thought the risk was much smaller than it has turned out but they must have realised that nothing was guaranteed except leaving.
No, the vote was advisory. That's what the Act says, and obiter dicta from anyone during the campaign don't alter that fact. Ignoring the advice altogether would dishonour the result, but that hasn't happened. Everyone has thought about nothing else for nearly three years so there is no case for saying it hasn't been carefully considered. "Sorry we've thought long and hard and concluded it can't be done" is now a perfectly sensible and democratic position to take.
Except that it could have been done. It could have been done fairly easily - just not after the Leave campaign and what it decided to major on, though.
Step one - agree to leave to EEA/EFTA and negotiate a temporary customs agreement to sort out Northern Ireland. If necessary, that we'd remain in the Customs Union until and only until we sort out a technological solution for the NI border.
Could have been agreed in months. We then action it and at that point, we'd have been out of the EU. Well ahead of the two year deadline (remember, A50 says "when an agreement is signed OR two years have elapsed").
Gets us out of the ECJ, huge swathes of the EU acquis, reduces payments a long way, permanently takes us out of ever-closer-union, gives us a straightforward route to other trade deals... but involves keeping Freedom of Movement. After the Leave campaign, the latter was off the table, and we were led by someone obsessed with immigration, so we ended up stuck where we are.
Without the standards alignment and regulatory scrutiny alignment of the Single Market, the border issue in NI becomes orders of magnitude more difficult, and this is why the issue is so intractable.
We know, for instance, that some in the ERG, appear to be so purist/idiotic (take your pick, I know which one i’d go for) as to just keep voting against The Deal whether it means a long delay, no Brexit, the Earth crashing into the sun or whatever. I’m thinking Francois, how many others - maybe 10 in all?
So that instantly wipes the Tory majority and with the DUP 10 voting against pretty much acts as a blocker. Would the odd Labour MP supporting mitigate for this? I’m doubtful. They only got 3 last time, but I guess it depends how much minds are concentrated.
The key to unlocking all this seems to be somehow getting the DUP to at least abstain. Erm, answers on a postcard how Mrs May does that?
^This. I still don't see where the numbers are for (This) Deal.
And after the No Deal and Extension votes, I suspect some BINO/remainers may peel off the other end too.
2.8 for a GE in 2019 looks to me like one of the best bets out there. There are so many different ways in which it could come about.
Though the application of common sense, the active enthusiasm of the voters, the wide choice of wise and balanced alternative governments and the ability of a GE to solve any of the Brexit conundrums are not among them.
Hard to know whether a four-year extension would destroy Labour or the Conservatives first. The Lib Dems and TIG would love it.
It would destroy the Conservatives. There aren't enough true labour brexiteers in parliament for it to be a major issue, but there are plenty of Tories.
Leavers ringing up radio stations saying MPs wanting to leave with a deal are betraying the public . So people not wanting to harm the country are now public enemy number one . Some MPs being called traitors for supporting Mays deal . It’s astonishing , now an orderly exit isn’t good enough and for some only complete carnage and a total rupture with the EU will do .
And apparently this is what they voted for in 2016 , which is a disgraceful revisioning and clearly now the ERG death cult has instructed its followers they have followed like Borg drones trying to take the country over the cliff .
And people wonder why Remainers might be just a little pissed off . Yes fine leave but for heavens sake do it sensibly with a deal.
Not exactly - this was Peter Ustinov... "World government is not only possible, it is inevitable, and when it comes, it will appeal to patriotism in its truest, in its only sense, the patriotism of men who love their national heritages so deeply that they wish to preserve them in safety for the common good"
Playing devils advocate, if that included trade deal negotiations then in theory you could get away with running with this rather than agreeing the WA and The Backstop Of Doom, surely?
And they have said no additional sums to the £39 billion in the extension period....
Playing devils advocate, if that included trade deal negotiations then in theory you could get away with running with this rather than agreeing the WA and The Backstop Of Doom, surely?
Hard to know whether a four-year extension would destroy Labour or the Conservatives first. The Lib Dems and TIG would love it.
It would destroy the Conservatives. There aren't enough true labour brexiteers in parliament for it to be a major issue, but there are plenty of Tories.
It’s not so much a formal leave/remain split that could do for Labour.
Corbyn is desperate to move on from Brexit and get on to his redistribution agenda. A four year extension means no moving on.
At that point, what’s the point of Corbyn? Corbynites can’t get anywhere on their policy issues because Brexit still dominates. Moderates can’t get anywhere on Brexit because Corbyn is the leader.
So we end up with either a serious leadership contest (think Yvette Cooper rather than Owen Smith), or more TIG-type defections, or a party dwindling further into irrelevance.
We know, for instance, that some in the ERG, appear to be so purist/idiotic (take your pick, I know which one i’d go for) as to just keep voting against The Deal whether it means a long delay, no Brexit, the Earth crashing into the sun or whatever. I’m thinking Francois, how many others - maybe 10 in all?
So that instantly wipes the Tory majority and with the DUP 10 voting against pretty much acts as a blocker. Would the odd Labour MP supporting mitigate for this? I’m doubtful. They only got 3 last time, but I guess it depends how much minds are concentrated.
The key to unlocking all this seems to be somehow getting the DUP to at least abstain. Erm, answers on a postcard how Mrs May does that?
^This. I still don't see where the numbers are for (This) Deal.
And after the No Deal and Extension votes, I suspect some BINO/remainers may peel off the other end too.
Quite, they as good as said so. Late coming ERGers and labour backers (no laughter please) may find it's not enough.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
But I have to admit there are aspects of all of this that are very funny indeed.
John Oliver had an amusing take on his own horror at Trump on the same basis, that he still finds a lot of things Trump says or does objectively funny and whether he should be mad for finding him so even now.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
A lot of people in 1979. It was regarded completely differently and as not particularly serious if the victims were boys,
That might have been the view in the circles David Steel moved in but for much of the country it would have got the perpetrator labelled as a nonce and his head would have been kicked in.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
A 1986 memo, written by Eliza Manningham-Buller, who later became director general of MI5, disclosed that she had met Morrison socially and discussed the allegations against him. She reported: “The prime minister was aware of it and was supporting Peter.”
Ken Clarke is such a fine example to people like Adonis, Blair and others on how to lay out a sensible compromise and is very much a remainer, but does not antagonise people
He would be a very good interim leader though it will not happen
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
Mr. Eagles, Savile had suspicions about him wide enough that I (and others my age) at primary school thought he was a kiddy fiddler. Shocking nothing was done about it.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
A lot of people in 1979. It was regarded completely differently and as not particularly serious if the victims were boys,
Exactly. There were all sorts of rumours about all sorts of people but it was not seen as a very serious issue. Jokes about priests and choirboys were commonplace, the idea that there was a massive cover-up is misplaced, everyone knew it went on but it was not deliberately covered up, it was just not seen as worthy of much attention unless it was particularly egregious. The modern contention that this kind of abuse has a permanent, lifetime impact would not have been given much credence.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
Takes us pass the 2022 general election allowing a party to win GE2022 on a Remain pledge.
Works for me.
And me lol! I think she will use that to try and budge the ERG. The DUP will still be shouting "no surrender", but many people of a remain disposition might think of a mechanism where that can be delivered.
After all, it has taken 2 years, why not another 4? It might give Liam Fox an opportunity to find at least one trade deal, maybe with Putin as he likes Brexit so much.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
A lot of people in 1979. It was regarded completely differently and as not particularly serious if the victims were boys,
That might have been the view in the circles David Steel moved in but for much of the country it would have got the perpetrator labelled as a nonce and his head would have been kicked in.
Attitudes were different then. The activities of national treasures like David Bowie, John Peel and perhaps a few others in the music business in the Sixties would be much less tolerated nowadays.
Scoutmasters, vicars and school teachers molesting boys were frequent topics of jokes back in the day. We have become less liberal in somethings over time, and appropriately so in this case.
Could Mrs May be an accidental Lt Columbo? Accidental in that she really doesn't know what she's doing, but stumbles on the only way out of this impasse?
Her treaty passes, the EU acts in good faith and she is the heroine of the decade. The sun shines, and the flying pigs supply shade.
She's impossible to read bit I think it's entirely possible that she knows exactly what she's doing. Remorselessly pushing every stupid thing that's demanded of her to its remorselessly stupid conclusion, then stretching out the moment of every failure until everyone can see how badly it's failed and how it couldn't possibly have worked. Meanwhile her party is still mostly intact, Labour is still at war, and her internal enemies look more ridiculous by the day.
However this is obviously all reliant on her having a non-catastrophic endgame...
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
A lot of people in 1979. It was regarded completely differently and as not particularly serious if the victims were boys,
Exactly. There were all sorts of rumours about all sorts of people but it was not seen as a very serious issue. Jokes about priests and choirboys were commonplace, the idea that there was a massive cover-up is misplaced, everyone knew it went on but it was not deliberately covered up, it was just not seen as worthy of much attention unless it was particularly egregious. The modern contention that this kind of abuse has a permanent, lifetime impact would not have been given much credence.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
A lot of people in 1979. It was regarded completely differently and as not particularly serious if the victims were boys,
Exactly. There were all sorts of rumours about all sorts of people but it was not seen as a very serious issue. Jokes about priests and choirboys were commonplace, the idea that there was a massive cover-up is misplaced, everyone knew it went on but it was not deliberately covered up, it was just not seen as worthy of much attention unless it was particularly egregious. The modern contention that this kind of abuse has a permanent, lifetime impact would not have been given much credence.
Anybody that gave a moment's consideration to the idea of boys being buggered by the mountain of lard that was Cyril Smith might just have come to the view that yes, that would fucking well scar you for life.
I hope in another existence, David Steel gets fastened by a chain to Jabba the Hutt, to be his carnal plaything for all eternity.
Until Brexit is resolved a general election solves nothing and an election campaign takes us well past Brexit day and the Commons had to make a decision both on an extension and as the EU will demand what it wants to do with an extension of Article 50 before then
Agree - a GE just now is impossible with neither of the two main parties having a settled view on brexit
Morning G, FPT, all is well though weather still windy with alternating sunshine and downpours. A day for indoors for sure.
Ken Clarke is such a fine example to people like Adonis, Blair and others on how to lay out a sensible compromise and is very much a remainer, but does not antagonise people
He would be a very good interim leader though it will not happen
Sadly not. Be nice to see though, and particularly the looks on the faces of the ERG thickheads if it happened.
What the Conservative Party needs to think about very seriously is who their candidates are going to be for that GE. Re-electing the same idiots will, even if they win, produce the same result. This government had a policy on Brexit. It was not a very good policy but it was theirs and it reflected their manifesto. MPs who have consistently voted against that policy should not be allowed to stand for the party. Its really as simple as that.
3 who were not willing to do so have had the honesty to depart to the Tiggers. Good riddance. But many, many more need to be removed from both the Grieve wing and the ERG wing (pretty much en masse). If the Tories are to form the next government they need to be a coherent party. Right now they are not.
Steel finally admitting what everyone knew shows up how devious and nasty these politicians are and always have been, everything they do is for self gain and climbing greasy pole in the party and conceal anything that can hurt them/party.
Until Brexit is resolved a general election solves nothing and an election campaign takes us well past Brexit day and the Commons had to make a decision both on an extension and as the EU will demand what it wants to do with an extension of Article 50 before then
Agree - a GE just now is impossible with neither of the two main parties having a settled view on brexit
Morning G, FPT, all is well though weather still windy with alternating sunshine and downpours. A day for indoors for sure.
How do the SNP do if theres a GE this year? I know polls are not massively different in Scotland but it's been volatile there and surely the Tory vote would suffer if no deal occurs for instance?
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
A lot of people in 1979. It was regarded completely differently and as not particularly serious if the victims were boys,
Exactly. There were all sorts of rumours about all sorts of people but it was not seen as a very serious issue. Jokes about priests and choirboys were commonplace, the idea that there was a massive cover-up is misplaced, everyone knew it went on but it was not deliberately covered up, it was just not seen as worthy of much attention unless it was particularly egregious. The modern contention that this kind of abuse has a permanent, lifetime impact would not have been given much credence.
"modern contention"???!
Recognition would seem a better word than contention. Makes it sound like modern society is just over sensitive!
4 years? can't see it being longer than 3 months! Obvious extension would be until Euro elections in May and then it's deal or no deal and parliament are going to have to sort their shit out for the final time.
Ken Clarke is such a fine example to people like Adonis, Blair and others on how to lay out a sensible compromise and is very much a remainer, but does not antagonise people
He would be a very good interim leader though it will not happen
Ken Clarke is such a fine example to people like Adonis, Blair and others on how to lay out a sensible compromise and is very much a remainer, but does not antagonise people
He would be a very good interim leader though it will not happen
What the Conservative Party needs to think about very seriously is who their candidates are going to be for that GE. Re-electing the same idiots will, even if they win, produce the same result. This government had a policy on Brexit. It was not a very good policy but it was theirs and it reflected their manifesto. MPs who have consistently voted against that policy should not be allowed to stand for the party. Its really as simple as that.
3 who were not willing to do so have had the honesty to depart to the Tiggers. Good riddance. But many, many more need to be removed from both the Grieve wing and the ERG wing (pretty much en masse). If the Tories are to form the next government they need to be a coherent party. Right now they are not.
Steel finally admitting what everyone knew shows up how devious and nasty these politicians are and always have been, everything they do is for self gain and climbing greasy pole in the party and conceal anything that can hurt them/party.
Hmm, not all politicians are unpleasant, anymore than all Scottish Nationalists throw bricks through peoples' windows.
Is there anyone in the SNP who has anything to hide do you think? Anyone who might have covered up the wrong doings of a senior colleague? (waits for incoherent torrent of abuse lol)
How do the SNP do if theres a GE this year? I know polls are not massively different in Scotland but it's been volatile there and surely the Tory vote would suffer if no deal occurs for instance?
It depends on who is blamed for no deal but I just do not see it
As I said on the last thread, Gina Miller has said that the EU have a legal duty to prevent no deal and she was highly critical of labour and the EU
But I have to admit there are aspects of all of this that are very funny indeed.
Yes. I keep thinking about the two years we couldn't be told anything because it would give away our negotiating position.........and then bursting into uncontrollable laughter.
But I have to admit there are aspects of all of this that are very funny indeed.
Yes. I keep thinking about the two years we couldn't be told anything because it would give away our negotiating position.........and then bursting into uncontrollable laughter.
Last night mps were saying removing no deal as an option would undermine the negotiating position, while also in backing the deal saying negotiation is over. Figure that one out.
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
I'm surprised that's never become a bigger scandal.
it's about to be. How many more escaped scrutiny?
Hopefully it is not too late to get at least a rough picture of whether (how many) of these people were actually paedophiles.
The rumours and allegations were reported long ago in Gyles Brandreth's diaries. In 1991, Brandreth's constituents alleged to him that Morrison was 'a disgusting pervert' who was 'into little boys'. It couldn't be clearer could it? I assume this would have been edited out, had Morrison not died before the diaries were published.
Mr. G, Clarke backed us joining the single currency. That was never going to fly.
Yes he did but that is not relevant now. He is the wise man in this and it is hard not to admire his sensible attitude to brexit, so far removed from zealots like Adonis and Blair
I wonder if this might be a final straw that does for the LibDem brand - so they throw their lot in with the TIGs?
What sort of person just turns a blind eye to child abuse???
Seriously
So did Thatcher apparently.
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
I'm surprised that's never become a bigger scandal.
it's about to be. How many more escaped scrutiny?
Hopefully it is not too late to get at least a rough picture of whether (how many) of these people were actually paedophiles.
The rumours and allegations were reported long ago in Gyles Brandreth's diaries. In 1991, Brandreth's constituents alleged to him that Morrison was 'a disgusting pervert' who was 'into little boys'. It couldn't be clearer could it? I assume this would have been edited out, had Morrison not died before the diaries were published.
How many more?
Are there any still being covered for, today, in 2019? If not, what changed?
But I have to admit there are aspects of all of this that are very funny indeed.
Mark Francois vs Will Self May's "Lucky" Coat Everything Marina Hyde has written about it Boris' "Back to Prep School" haircut Steve Baker being JRM's Power Bottom The TIGs in Nando's pretending they are normal people & c.
How do the SNP do if theres a GE this year? I know polls are not massively different in Scotland but it's been volatile there and surely the Tory vote would suffer if no deal occurs for instance?
It depends on who is blamed for no deal but I just do not see it
As I said on the last thread, Gina Miller has said that the EU have a legal duty to prevent no deal and she was highly critical of labour and the EU
The Scots are waiting to see what happens. There is an air of disbelief. No one here believes a no deal Brexit will occur. If it does it would be a poll tax moment for the tories. English tories again would be seen to imposing an unwanted change on Scotland.
If the wa passes I am not sure what will be the outcome. Getting fishing back is important but losing freedom of movement is not wanted here and the Scottish tories have already stated they want a £20k not £30k salary requirement
How do the SNP do if theres a GE this year? I know polls are not massively different in Scotland but it's been volatile there and surely the Tory vote would suffer if no deal occurs for instance?
It depends on who is blamed for no deal but I just do not see it
As I said on the last thread, Gina Miller has said that the EU have a legal duty to prevent no deal and she was highly critical of labour and the EU
The Scots are waiting to see what happens. There is an air of disbelief. No one here believes a no deal Brexit will occur. If it does it would be a poll tax moment for the tories. English tories again would be seen to imposing an unwanted change on Scotland.
If the wa passes I am not sure what will be the outcome. Getting fishing back is important but losing freedom of movement is not wanted here and the Scottish tories have already stated they want a £20k not £30k salary requirement
I think the party should reduce the salary requirement to £20,000 - £30,000 is too high
As noted yesterday, (Tory MP) Daniel Kawczynski did the same thing at a conference in Poland last week, which i note was rebuffed by the Polish FM yesterday.
Comments
And while the reality of the situation (ie May still thinks the deal is alive) might dictate such a timetable, I remain to be convinced that losses of 200+ and 149 are overturnable. Even if 70 MPs are willing to come up with a convincing excuse for 180deg turn, will another 5 - without a remainer leak at the other end?
From giving a free vote on the No Deal motion and stating she'd vote against No Deal, to whipping for No Deal as soon as her weasel words were removed...
No. I used to think that when push came to shove, she'd choose whatever she saw as best for the country over best for her Party. Now, I do not.
I have no doubt she believes No Deal would be disruptive, painful, catastrophic to a significant chunk of her people, but that she sees the alternative as catastrophic for her Party. And now I believe she'll choose her Party over her people.
""Sorry we've thought long and hard and concluded it can't be done" is now a perfectly sensible and democratic position to take."
I'd like to see you try that on the Scots if they won an independence referendum. At least you could say it's 300 years and not 40.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmagenda/OP190314.pdf
8 amendments
Please...just make it stop....
Works for me.
Even with a tech extension, I hope someone's pressed the FF button on the usual pace of government!
It could have been done fairly easily - just not after the Leave campaign and what it decided to major on, though.
Step one - agree to leave to EEA/EFTA and negotiate a temporary customs agreement to sort out Northern Ireland. If necessary, that we'd remain in the Customs Union until and only until we sort out a technological solution for the NI border.
Could have been agreed in months. We then action it and at that point, we'd have been out of the EU. Well ahead of the two year deadline (remember, A50 says "when an agreement is signed OR two years have elapsed").
Gets us out of the ECJ, huge swathes of the EU acquis, reduces payments a long way, permanently takes us out of ever-closer-union, gives us a straightforward route to other trade deals... but involves keeping Freedom of Movement. After the Leave campaign, the latter was off the table, and we were led by someone obsessed with immigration, so we ended up stuck where we are.
Without the standards alignment and regulatory scrutiny alignment of the Single Market, the border issue in NI becomes orders of magnitude more difficult, and this is why the issue is so intractable.
And after the No Deal and Extension votes, I suspect some BINO/remainers may peel off the other end too.
But I have to admit there are aspects of all of this that are very funny indeed.
"World government is not only possible, it is inevitable, and when it comes, it will appeal to patriotism in its truest, in its only sense, the patriotism of men who love their national heritages so deeply that they wish to preserve them in safety for the common good"
Yeah, right.....
Corbyn is desperate to move on from Brexit and get on to his redistribution agenda. A four year extension means no moving on.
At that point, what’s the point of Corbyn? Corbynites can’t get anywhere on their policy issues because Brexit still dominates. Moderates can’t get anywhere on Brexit because Corbyn is the leader.
So we end up with either a serious leadership contest (think Yvette Cooper rather than Owen Smith), or more TIG-type defections, or a party dwindling further into irrelevance.
https://order-order.com/2019/03/14/steel-facing-disciplinary-investigation-paedo-cover/
The report last night made me so fecking angry
Seriously
https://twitter.com/Motorsport/status/1106110412863479808
Margaret Thatcher personally protected a senior Conservative MP who was under suspicion of abusing children, according to MI5 files disclosed to a public inquiry.
Sir Peter Morrison featured in a series of internal Security Service memos written during 1986-87 about his alleged “interest in small boys”.
Despite MI5’s concerns — which were primarily about any risk to national security rather than the welfare of children — the MP for Chester served as a junior minister, then Tory party deputy chairman and eventually Mrs Thatcher’s parliamentary private secretary.
Five documents about Morrison, who died in 1995, were found in MI5 files during a trawl of archives for information relevant to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA).
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c1bad844-4450-11e9-bfd2-5b366418ffd1
A 1986 memo, written by Eliza Manningham-Buller, who later became director general of MI5, disclosed that she had met Morrison socially and discussed the allegations against him. She reported: “The prime minister was aware of it and was supporting Peter.”
He would be a very good interim leader though it will not happen
'Witnesses said Cali's killer shot him at least six times and then ran him over before fleeing the scene.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47566382
After all, it has taken 2 years, why not another 4? It might give Liam Fox an opportunity to find at least one trade deal, maybe with Putin as he likes Brexit so much.
Scoutmasters, vicars and school teachers molesting boys were frequent topics of jokes back in the day. We have become less liberal in somethings over time, and appropriately so in this case.
However this is obviously all reliant on her having a non-catastrophic endgame...
Hopefully it is not too late to get at least a rough picture of whether (how many) of these people were actually paedophiles.
I hope in another existence, David Steel gets fastened by a chain to Jabba the Hutt, to be his carnal plaything for all eternity.
Is there anyone in the SNP who has anything to hide do you think? Anyone who might have covered up the wrong doings of a senior colleague? (waits for incoherent torrent of abuse lol)
As I said on the last thread, Gina Miller has said that the EU have a legal duty to prevent no deal and she was highly critical of labour and the EU
Are there any still being covered for, today, in 2019? If not, what changed?
May's "Lucky" Coat
Everything Marina Hyde has written about it
Boris' "Back to Prep School" haircut
Steve Baker being JRM's Power Bottom
The TIGs in Nando's pretending they are normal people
& c.
The comedy never ends...
If the wa passes I am not sure what will be the outcome. Getting fishing back is important but losing freedom of movement is not wanted here and the Scottish tories have already stated they want a £20k not £30k salary requirement
https://twitter.com/cjayanetti/status/1105920444555776001?s=21
https://twitter.com/cjayanetti/status/1105922344672026629?s=21