SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
Well, kudos to you for admitting it Sean.
However, I fear your memory is a little wrong: I've only been on this 'site since about 2010, and you said it whilst I was on, and ISTR was one of the people who responded to it. It would probably have been four or five years ago.
Anyway May should resign just after sending in a letter revoking Article 50. Brexiteers can spend the next 5 years - or as long as it takes - working out a realistic plan for Brexit, taking into account what we have learnt from the last 3 years and then try and persuade people of its value. Or we might - perish the thought - work out a sensible European strategy.
Yeah, yeah - I know - Will of the People and all. But No Deal was not what what was offered in 2016. No-one knows what it means. No preparation has been done. Or not enough. And it will be the opposite of Taking Back Control. What will the People think when they realise we will be more - rather than less - dependant on the kindness of strangers? That immigration continues going up? That we are spending so much mitigating the effects of Brexit that the money for the NHS is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
So we need to take a deep breath, pause and do some hard thinking. Continuing on an uncertain and potentially dangerous course just because we’re too scared to admit that we don’t know what we’re doing is utter folly.
My prediction though is that we will continue with the folly out of fear and cowardice and ineptitude.
SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
Well, kudos to you for admitting it Sean.
However, I fear your memory is a little wrong: I've only been on this 'site since about 2010, and you said it whilst I was on, and ISTR was one of the people who responded to it. It would probably have been four or five years ago.
I think you may be remembering a debate about my prior and original remarks. I am happy to be disproved.
SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
Quite staggering then that you have subsequently thought to touch in such matters again only the other day and further demonstrate your ignorance. Not in quite the same extreme way, but still prejudiced enough to get Josias Jessop pretty pissed off. You are a very nice man, I am sure the Times must be very proud to have you as their correspondent.
Tugendhat would be our first French Prime Minister.
He's a Gonville and Caius old boy, top chaps. Ken Clarke is an old boy.
What is Tugendhat's path to Number Ten from outside the Cabinet? It can't be via LotO because then the bet would be lost to Diane Abbott (also Cambridge) as next PM.
So your bet must involve Tugendhat being appointed to the Cabinet in the near future. Have you spotted Chris Grayling in the JobCentre?
The mystery to me is why anyone would want to hire her given the shambles she presided over.
Perhaps she could not get a seat as a Labour MP......?
In the interests of political balance, could you not think of any leading Conservative MPs (anagram) currently presiding over a shambles?
I was thinking of Starmer. But yes Grayling’s time at Justice was utterly dire. That man should be nowhere in government. That he continues to be in Cabinet is a disgrace.
Tugendhat would be our first French Prime Minister.
He's a Gonville and Caius old boy, top chaps. Ken Clarke is an old boy.
What is Tugendhat's path to Number Ten from outside the Cabinet? It can't be via LotO because then the bet would be lost to Diane Abbott (also Cambridge) as next PM.
So your bet must involve Tugendhat being appointed to the Cabinet in the near future. Have you spotted Chris Grayling in the JobCentre?
He could do a David Davis, from (important) select committee chairman to the (shadow) cabinet.
Soon as he joins the cabinet his odds should tumble.
Edit - Actually that was the route for John Whittingdale as well.
SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
Well, kudos to you for admitting it Sean.
However, I fear your memory is a little wrong: I've only been on this 'site since about 2010, and you said it whilst I was on, and ISTR was one of the people who responded to it. It would probably have been four or five years ago.
I think you may be remembering a debate about my prior and original remarks. I am happy to be disproved.
Perhaps - and I'm in the middle of trying to assemble a chair and can't be bothered to do a trawl through the archives, but I think it was a comment you made at the time, not a response to an old one.
Anyway, an Allen key awaits! Then I need to lug the old, broken 50kg chair down the stairs...
But IMV anyone seeing that mural and not recognising anti-Jewish tropes and being concerned probably cannot say they're not anti-Semitic. Because if you don't recognise that, what other anti-Semitic tropes do you not recognise, or even use?
I think that's all very fair except the last para, which IMO strays into "everyone must surely see a picture the way I see it" territory. I've fortunately never really come across anti-semitism and haven't given thought to looking for tropes - basically if someone said something offensive about Jewish people, I'd tell them to stop talking rubbish, and that's all that's seemed necessary. (I didn't go to a school in the UK so can't comment on whether kids see lots of Nazi posters in history lessons - I certainly didn't in my American-curriculum school.)
Where I do part company with some on this issue is that I don't agree that (as a former Chief Rabbi apparently argued) people who don't support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state are by definition antisemitic. That seems to me to go too far, and to tar a category of people with no prejudices about Jews who think that religious/communal states are a bad thing and/or that it'd be better if Israel was a secular Jewish+Palestinian state. That view is hopelessly unrealistic, but it's not an inherently evil thought.
While I would agree in theory I think you need to make the distinction between what you might want if you were starting from a blank sheet - where you might take the position that states should not be based on a credal basis - and where you already have such a state and you are arguing for its destruction. Destroying a state very often involves the destruction or expulsion of its people and when that people is Jewish it is hard to see how that is not anti-semitic. The position of Hamas, for instance, is that there should be no Jews living anywhere between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.
Also, those who take the view that religious/communal states are bad things - like those arguing that Israel is ipso facto racist - are very rarely found arguing that other such religious/communal states like, say, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or others based on a credal culture should be destroyed or made secular.
So a cynic might suppose that this dislike of religious/communal states - when it is only and somewhat obsessively directed at one state - is possibly animated by something other than a love of secularism.
I don't think it's necessarily anti-Semitic to argue that Israel should never have been created. It's hard to see how calling for its destruction can be anything other than anti-Semitic.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
Stats on poverty are pretty depressing. Not that it would touch you (or indeed most anyone on PB) but people are getting (relatively - and by that I think the bar is around £12k) poorer.
I said our economy is doing “ok” - which it is. Certainly compared to some other European nations, let alone the real basket cases elsewhere. Could we do more and better? Do we have major problems? My god, yes. But Brexit is not turning us into a Venezuelan dystopia. Corbyn’s Labour will do that.
Who cares about "compared to some other European nations"? The point is, poverty is increasing in the UK and I'm sure that in our high-falutin' discussions about Brexit, we miss the fact that some element of the Leave vote was down to people who had nothing to lose and whose situation was and is worsening so actually for them we're not doing OK.
Signed TOPPING the SOCIALIST
Can you point to some stats?
Relative poverty is a very unhelpful concept.
Poverty is an important issue. So is inequality. But to combine them into a single measure reduces the ability to fight them effectively
It was in the news the other day. Agree about relative poverty but as mentioned, the figure they used is around £12k.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
Quite staggering then that you have subsequently thought to touch in such matters again only the other day and further demonstrate your ignorance. Not in quite the same extreme way, but still prejudiced enough to get Josias Jessop pretty pissed off. You are a very nice man, I am sure the Times must be very proud to have you as their correspondent.
Have you never said anything idiotic in anger?! You must be inhumanly restrained. Or very very very boring.
I stand by my opinion of Muslim migration: in this sad era of Islamic fundamentalism. I believe it has been a net negative for Europe, and should be severely restricted until Islam comes to its senses - an opinion shared by a majority of my fellow Europeans.
“Overall, across all 10 of the European countries an average of 55% agreed that all further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped, 25% neither agreed nor disagreed and 20% disagreed.“
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
Tugendhat would be our first French Prime Minister.
He's a Gonville and Caius old boy, top chaps. Ken Clarke is an old boy.
What is Tugendhat's path to Number Ten from outside the Cabinet? It can't be via LotO because then the bet would be lost to Diane Abbott (also Cambridge) as next PM.
So your bet must involve Tugendhat being appointed to the Cabinet in the near future. Have you spotted Chris Grayling in the JobCentre?
I think not being in this particular cabinet ought to be an advantage.
SeanT: Is it true what was alleged on here the other day that you suggested sometime ago that Muslims should be deported from the UK, or was that a misquote?
I can’t remember the details, but it is largely true. I either said Muslims should be deported or interned. I think I said it on another website (Harry’s Place?) but it was relayed here.
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
Well, kudos to you for admitting it Sean.
However, I fear your memory is a little wrong: I've only been on this 'site since about 2010, and you said it whilst I was on, and ISTR was one of the people who responded to it. It would probably have been four or five years ago.
To be fair he has said a few silly things when he has been on the "Singing Ginger".
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
Stats on poverty are pretty depressing. Not that it would touch you (or indeed most anyone on PB) but people are getting (relatively - and by that I think the bar is around £12k) poorer.
I said our economy is doing “ok” - which it is. Certainly compared to some other European nations, let alone the real basket cases elsewhere. Could we do more and better? Do we have major problems? My god, yes. But Brexit is not turning us into a Venezuelan dystopia. Corbyn’s Labour will do that.
Who cares about "compared to some other European nations"? The point is, poverty is increasing in the UK and I'm sure that in our high-falutin' discussions about Brexit, we miss the fact that some element of the Leave vote was down to people who had nothing to lose and whose situation was and is worsening so actually for them we're not doing OK.
Signed TOPPING the SOCIALIST
Can you point to some stats?
Relative poverty is a very unhelpful concept.
Poverty is an important issue. So is inequality. But to combine them into a single measure reduces the ability to fight them effectively
It was in the news the other day. Agree about relative poverty but as mentioned, the figure they used is around £12k.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
That would be 150% over and above prices.
I am surprised , I would have expected it to be a lot tougher for people at bottom end than when I was a boy. You could live well on a standard job in those days, most people were in council houses mind you and beer was cheap.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
Stats on poverty are pretty depressing. Not that it would touch you (or indeed most anyone on PB) but people are getting (relatively - and by that I think the bar is around £12k) poorer.
I said our economy is doing “ok” - which it is. Certainly compared to some other European nations, let alone the real basket cases elsewhere. Could we do more and better? Do we have major problems? My god, yes. But Brexit is not turning us into a Venezuelan dystopia. Corbyn’s Labour will do that.
Who cares about "compared to some other European nations"? The point is, poverty is increasing in the UK and I'm sure that in our high-falutin' discussions about Brexit, we miss the fact that some element of the Leave vote was down to people who had nothing to lose and whose situation was and is worsening so actually for them we're not doing OK.
Signed TOPPING the SOCIALIST
Can you point to some stats?
Relative poverty is a very unhelpful concept.
Poverty is an important issue. So is inequality. But to combine them into a single measure reduces the ability to fight them effectively
It was in the news the other day. Agree about relative poverty but as mentioned, the figure they used is around £12k.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
That would be 150% over and above prices.
I am surprised , I would have expected it to be a lot tougher for people at bottom end than when I was a boy. You could live well on a standard job in those days, most people were in council houses mind you and beer was cheap.
The fact that when you were a boy you were aware of the beer being cheap explains a lot about your current posting, Malcolm.
Is it me or has sentiment turned sharply against the Prime Minister in the last 24-36 hours? The expectation of a second heavy defeat on the WA is now coming into calculations and some are asking whether she can or indeed should survive such a humiliation.
It's beginning to look as those the last 8 weeks have achieved the sum total of bugger all and the EU, having said the WA wasn't up for renegotiation, have, to some people's surprise, meant it and not caved because the British have shouted at them.
We are then left with either having to go cap in hand grovelling for an extension or leaving without a Deal. The former is much more likely because the EU recognise the potential disaster that is No Deal for us as well as for them although they seem more prepared and relaxed about it than we do.
Parliament's impotence will be laid bare - having voted down the WA, all we can do is empower the PM to ask for an extension, the EU will decide if we get one and if we don't, the EU will have decided we leave without a Deal. I imagine the endgame will then be May's swift departure, the anointing of a new PM who will being the WA back at the beginning of the final week and get it passed.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
That would be 150% over and above prices.
I am surprised , I would have expected it to be a lot tougher for people at bottom end than when I was a boy. You could live well on a standard job in those days, most people were in council houses mind you and beer was cheap.
The fact that when you were a boy you were aware of the beer being cheap explains a lot about your current posting, Malcolm.
Still cheap for me Topping given I am extremely lucky and have no shortage of money nowadays. PS: I do think the country is much more unfair nowadays.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
That would be 150% over and above prices.
I am surprised , I would have expected it to be a lot tougher for people at bottom end than when I was a boy. You could live well on a standard job in those days, most people were in council houses mind you and beer was cheap.
The fact that when you were a boy you were aware of the beer being cheap explains a lot about your current posting, Malcolm.
Still cheap for me Topping given I am extremely lucky and have no shortage of money nowadays.
My point is sounds like you were at the sauce from a young age.
"Nearly all of the increase comes as growing numbers of working parents find it harder to earn enough money to pay for food, clothing and accommodation due to weak wage growth, an erosion of welfare support and tax credits and the rising cost of living."
However, the ONS' Timeseries of decile points of equivalised disposable household income, 1977-2017/18, UK (in 2017/18 prices) suggests otherwise.
2017/18 fell back slightly to 2016/17 levels, but since 2010, all reported income deciles saw their disposal income rise, with everyone on less than the median salary seeing a consistent rise of 6% (£857p.a.). People above the median saw less in % terms, though more in £ terms.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
I’ve got bad news for you Malcolm. You owe me some money.
As I have already noted on here, my family recently made the startling discovery that, via the Tremayne line, we are descended directly from William the Conqueror.
Well, since then, we have also discovered that we are very likely descended, directly, from this guy, your namesake: Malcolm II, Mael Coluim de Mackenneth, alias “The Destroyer”: King of Alba, Scotland, Ireland, Strathclyde and Lord of the Hebrides.
Given that I am your ancestral and feudal overlord, you must therefore be in arrears just for living on my land i.e. all of Scotland. You can pay me in oats.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
That would be 150% over and above prices.
I am surprised , I would have expected it to be a lot tougher for people at bottom end than when I was a boy. You could live well on a standard job in those days, most people were in council houses mind you and beer was cheap.
The fact that when you were a boy you were aware of the beer being cheap explains a lot about your current posting, Malcolm.
Still cheap for me Topping given I am extremely lucky and have no shortage of money nowadays.
My point is sounds like you were at the sauce from a young age.
Yes indeed, still enjoy it but go more for quality than quantity these days. I could not handle as much or recover as quick, don't want hangovers these days. PS : you could get 8 pints of lager for a pound in those days, 9 pints of Heavy and 10 pints of light.
You are absolutely correct. The left Corbyn is a part of never questions itself. It is impossible for it to be racist because it is anti-racist. And that’s that. It gets to decide. There is no uncertainty. No questioning. No self-doubt. No reflection. It is moral absolutism. And it is immoral, wrong and genuinely frightening. Corbyn never has the long black nights of the soul that all people in positions of power must have. Never trust a politician who never has a bad night’s sleep.
Very true. Would probably have saved us Blair as well.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
I’ve got bad news for you Malcolm. You owe me some money.
As I have already noted on here, my family recently made the startling discovery that, via the Tremayne line, we are descended directly from William the Conqueror.
Well, since then, we have also discovered that we are very likely descended, directly, from this guy, your namesake: Malcolm II, Mael Coluim de Mackenneth, alias “The Destroyer”: King of Alba, Scotland, Ireland, Strathclyde and Lord of the Hebrides.
Given that I am your ancestral and feudal overlord, you must therefore be in arrears just for living on my land i.e. all of Scotland. You can pay me in oats.
I think you will find that Malcolm II was not King of all Scotland and that there was a King of Strathclyde in those days who probably ruled Malcolm’s patch.
stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
Stats on poverty are pretty depressing. Not that it would touch you (or indeed most anyone on PB) but people are getting (relatively - and by that I think the bar is around £12k) poorer.
I said our economy is doing “ok” - which it is. Certainly compared to some other European nations, let alone the real basket cases elsewhere. Could we do more and better? Do we have major problems? My god, yes. But Brexit is not turning us into a Venezuelan dystopia. Corbyn’s Labour will do that.
Who cares about "compared to some other European nations"? The point is, poverty is increasing in the UK and I'm sure that in our high-falutin' discussions about Brexit, we miss the fact that some element of the Leave vote was down to people who had nothing to lose and whose situation was and is worsening so actually for them we're not doing OK.
Signed TOPPING the SOCIALIST
Can you point to some stats?
Relative poverty is a very unhelpful concept.
Poverty is an important issue. So is inequality. But to combine them into a single measure reduces the ability to fight them effectively
It was in the news the other day. Agree about relative poverty but as mentioned, the figure they used is around £12k.
I'm sorry if you find it boring Jezziah, but it is true, when people are furiously defending Corbyn and saying he has done no wrong or that things in labour are just fine and it is all just attacks on Corbyn, I think it reasonable to conclude they are Corbyn supporters, especially when they have JC for PM and other such things in their Twitter handles.
I'm sorry, but you just confuse me. It is possible to think the attacks on labour and Corbyn are overblown, out of proportion. But some people say it is all a smear. Corbyn says it is not just a smear. If that's not calling him a liar what is? Some claim the mural was not anti semitic or not obviously so. Corbyn had to say he didn't look at it properly so even if you or they dont think that, he clearly does.
Its all very well people defending themselves with certain lines. But Corbyn cannot be defended with lines if he has contradicted those lines.
Thst doesn't make every attack people make on him true. But it does make supporters of his, and they are supporters of his, who defend him for reasons that do not follow his words, calling him a liar. You don't like that, fine.
It's the Brown/Duffy incident. Many people insist what she said was bigoted. Let's say that is correct. But Brown himself said it wasn't and he was sorry. So anyone decending him for speaking truth is calling him a liar.
Should I believe Corbyn that he did not look at the moral properly? Or call him a liar, a liar who is pretending not to have looked at it, is lying about his regret, because what? He have in to the press?
Corbyn might not be as bad as many think. He has the backing of millions. But to suggest people defending him are not supporters of his? Youe lost it.
Dont want people who back him but contradict him.called out? Tell them to stop calling him a liar. I apparently have more respect for his honesty than you do.
TBH they are only calling him a liar if they share your strange binary logic which only ever presents two possibilities in any situation. It is the same reason you were accusing pro EU MPs of being in favour of no deal.
Clearly they weren't but you can't seem to get your head around the idea that people don't share your way of thinking. If Corbyn supporters thought like you they would be calling him a liar. Probably a good part of the reason they are Corbyn supporters in the first place is because they don't think like you.
You may think them illogical, although TBH they might have that impression of you but if you can't understand the way they think then you really can't assess what they must think. You believe that if people think x or y then they must also think Corbyn is a liar. Which works but you have to understand that these people don't necessarily think x or y like you do...
If they did they would have probably voted Tory in 2017 rather than being Corbyn supporters.
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
I’ve got bad news for you Malcolm. You owe me some money.
As I have already noted on here, my family recently made the startling discovery that, via the Tremayne line, we are descended directly from William the Conqueror.
Well, since then, we have also discovered that we are very likely descended, directly, from this guy, your namesake: Malcolm II, Mael Coluim de Mackenneth, alias “The Destroyer”: King of Alba, Scotland, Ireland, Strathclyde and Lord of the Hebrides.
Given that I am your ancestral and feudal overlord, you must therefore be in arrears just for living on my land i.e. all of Scotland. You can pay me in oats.
I think you will find that Malcolm II was not King of all Scotland and that there was a King of Strathclyde in those days who probably ruled Malcolm’s patch.
I was digging up my turnips there till I saw David's post.
I’m not a violent person but each time I see those “ removing no deal is betrayal “ signs I have a terrible urge to run upto the person holding that and headbutt them .
What sort of lunacy consumes these people who seek damage to their own country .
The very very strange thing in all this, is that despite the clown show of a government and the dismal panto of our political theatre, Britain’s economy is doing OK, the deficit is coming down, we are not at war, our environmental record is good, crime remains relatively low (despite these horrible stabbings), our universities thrive, we have the best thriller writers, and otters now live in every county in England.
Britain is still an enviably stable, sensible, prosperous nation - blessed with beautiful countryside and magnificent culture.
Yes Brexit is a shower of shyte. But Britain is not Brexit.
I was thinking much the same when I read a review of William Keegan's autobiography which details all the economic "disasters" the country has suffered since the 1960's, yet GDP per head is about 150% higher than it was in the year that I was born.
Yes but are prices/cost of living on same trajectory, I would expect most working people to be worse off except at the top end.
I’ve got bad news for you Malcolm. You owe me some money.
As I have already noted on here, my family recently made the startling discovery that, via the Tremayne line, we are descended directly from William the Conqueror.
Well, since then, we have also discovered that we are very likely descended, directly, from this guy, your namesake: Malcolm II, Mael Coluim de Mackenneth, alias “The Destroyer”: King of Alba, Scotland, Ireland, Strathclyde and Lord of the Hebrides.
Given that I am your ancestral and feudal overlord, you must therefore be in arrears just for living on my land i.e. all of Scotland. You can pay me in oats.
Sorry, Sean - you appear to have missed the deadline in the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Act 2000:
You have to claim it from the 'former vassal': the people who will be due to pay the feu duty on 27 November 2004 The Superior may claim compensation for feu duty within 2 years from 28 November 2004. The Act does not affect unpaid arrears of feu duty. Normally only arrears of unpaid feu duty from the last 5 years are claimable
Comments
The context is relevant but does not excuse. I said it - I think - on the day of the 7/7 bombings, when I was living in Bloomsbury and I heard that bus explode 200 yards from my flat.
What I said was highly emotional and reflexive, it was also utterly wrong and ridiculous. I remember the esteemed JackW making me look and feel a fool. Deservedly. I apologized for my words, and retracted them.
To give his full title 'The disgraced national security risk Liam Fox.'
However, I fear your memory is a little wrong: I've only been on this 'site since about 2010, and you said it whilst I was on, and ISTR was one of the people who responded to it. It would probably have been four or five years ago.
Yeah, yeah - I know - Will of the People and all. But No Deal was not what what was offered in 2016. No-one knows what it means. No preparation has been done. Or not enough. And it will be the opposite of Taking Back Control. What will the People think when they realise we will be more - rather than less - dependant on the kindness of strangers? That immigration continues going up? That we are spending so much mitigating the effects of Brexit that the money for the NHS is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
So we need to take a deep breath, pause and do some hard thinking. Continuing on an uncertain and potentially dangerous course just because we’re too scared to admit that we don’t know what we’re doing is utter folly.
My prediction though is that we will continue with the folly out of fear and cowardice and ineptitude.
Oh well.
Till later.
So your bet must involve Tugendhat being appointed to the Cabinet in the near future. Have you spotted Chris Grayling in the JobCentre?
Soon as he joins the cabinet his odds should tumble.
Edit - Actually that was the route for John Whittingdale as well.
Anyway, an Allen key awaits! Then I need to lug the old, broken 50kg chair down the stairs...
(The horrors of being a house-husband).
https://theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/04/four-million-british-workers-live-in-poverty-charity-says
https://jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2018
I stand by my opinion of Muslim migration: in this sad era of Islamic fundamentalism. I believe it has been a net negative for Europe, and should be severely restricted until Islam comes to its senses - an opinion shared by a majority of my fellow Europeans.
“Overall, across all 10 of the European countries an average of 55% agreed that all further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped, 25% neither agreed nor disagreed and 20% disagreed.“
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration
It’s a shame my opinion offends you, but the fact you choose to take offence is not my problem.
😝
It seems to be their argument is that withdrawal of tax credits is pushing people into poverty
I’m not sure why we should be subsidising employers to pay low wages
Is it me or has sentiment turned sharply against the Prime Minister in the last 24-36 hours? The expectation of a second heavy defeat on the WA is now coming into calculations and some are asking whether she can or indeed should survive such a humiliation.
It's beginning to look as those the last 8 weeks have achieved the sum total of bugger all and the EU, having said the WA wasn't up for renegotiation, have, to some people's surprise, meant it and not caved because the British have shouted at them.
We are then left with either having to go cap in hand grovelling for an extension or leaving without a Deal. The former is much more likely because the EU recognise the potential disaster that is No Deal for us as well as for them although they seem more prepared and relaxed about it than we do.
Parliament's impotence will be laid bare - having voted down the WA, all we can do is empower the PM to ask for an extension, the EU will decide if we get one and if we don't, the EU will have decided we leave without a Deal. I imagine the endgame will then be May's swift departure, the anointing of a new PM who will being the WA back at the beginning of the final week and get it passed.
PS: I do think the country is much more unfair nowadays.
Soon the masses will welcome their new enormo-haddock overlords!
Steven Swinford
Verified account @Steven_Swinford
21m21 minutes ago
New:
Hearing that PM may be flying to Strasbourg later *today* for last-ditch talks with Juncker.
Suggestion there is some kind of deal in the offing over alternative arrangements.
Nothing confirmed yet, but signals she could be bringing something new to the Commons tomorrow.
"Nearly all of the increase comes as growing numbers of working parents find it harder to earn enough money to pay for food, clothing and accommodation due to weak wage growth, an erosion of welfare support and tax credits and the rising cost of living."
However, the ONS' Timeseries of decile points of equivalised disposable household income, 1977-2017/18, UK (in 2017/18 prices) suggests otherwise.
2017/18 fell back slightly to 2016/17 levels, but since 2010, all reported income deciles saw their disposal income rise, with everyone on less than the median salary seeing a consistent rise of 6% (£857p.a.). People above the median saw less in % terms, though more in £ terms.
This is after tax and benefit changes.
As I have already noted on here, my family recently made the startling discovery that, via the Tremayne line, we are descended directly from William the Conqueror.
Well, since then, we have also discovered that we are very likely descended, directly, from this guy, your namesake: Malcolm II, Mael Coluim de Mackenneth, alias “The Destroyer”: King of Alba, Scotland, Ireland, Strathclyde and Lord of the Hebrides.
https://gw.geneanet.org/ebiechl?lang=en&pz=gabriela&nz=biechl&p=malcolm+ii+mael+coluim&n=de+mackenneth+the+destroyer+king+of+alba+scotland+ireland+hebridies+high+king
Given that I am your ancestral and feudal overlord, you must therefore be in arrears just for living on my land i.e. all of Scotland. You can pay me in oats.
PS : you could get 8 pints of lager for a pound in those days, 9 pints of Heavy and 10 pints of light.
Clearly they weren't but you can't seem to get your head around the idea that people don't share your way of thinking. If Corbyn supporters thought like you they would be calling him a liar. Probably a good part of the reason they are Corbyn supporters in the first place is because they don't think like you.
You may think them illogical, although TBH they might have that impression of you but if you can't understand the way they think then you really can't assess what they must think. You believe that if people think x or y then they must also think Corbyn is a liar. Which works but you have to understand that these people don't necessarily think x or y like you do...
If they did they would have probably voted Tory in 2017 rather than being Corbyn supporters.
What sort of lunacy consumes these people who seek damage to their own country .
You have to claim it from the 'former vassal': the people who will be due to pay the feu duty on 27 November 2004
The Superior may claim compensation for feu duty within 2 years from 28 November 2004.
The Act does not affect unpaid arrears of feu duty. Normally only arrears of unpaid feu duty from the last 5 years are claimable