Having said that, it is actually one of the more sensible Brexit outcomes. Given there has to be checks somewhere in Ireland if the UK diverges from the EU, the Stranraer to Larne ferry is the obvious place to have them. It is localised to a couple of ferry ports, they have the time to do them, lorries are going through other checks anyway, it keeps the land border with 300 crossing points clean. Nortthen Ireland, which doesn't have much going for it economically, gets a free trade zone.
But they would be different and so the DUP will never accept it. Never! Never!
There’s no chance at all of the DUP ever accepting customs checks between the UK and the UK, especially not on the EU’s say-so once we’ve left.
The ERG are not going to agree to anything the DUP won’t agree to.
Mr. Foremain, the poll was of Muslims generally in the UK, not one specific set. My precise point is that if you polled *all* Christians you'd find far more with liberal and conservative views of their holy text and far fewer with fundamentalist and literalist views.
I also never mentioned 'fear'. Here's the original post I wrote:
"Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam."
Point taken, but what is your conclusion? It sounds to me that your unspoken conclusion is that people in the UK should fear them, rather in the manner that SeanT was rather more overt about in the previous thread. I've always rather liked you, so I do hope you do not share his views!
Having said that, it is actually one of the more sensible Brexit outcomes. Given there has to be checks somewhere in Ireland if the UK diverges from the EU, the Stranraer to Larne ferry is the obvious place to have them. It is localised to a couple of ferry ports, they have the time to do them, lorries are going through other checks anyway, it keeps the land border with 300 crossing points clean. Nortthen Ireland, which doesn't have much going for it economically, gets a free trade zone.
But they would be different and so the DUP will never accept it. Never! Never!
Seriously, I wonder if the DUP would ever come round to campaigning to remain. They can't trust any version of May's Deal because even if she is sincere in wanting to keep the Union together, there will always be others in her party who prioritise divergence of England from the EU.
Mr. Foremain, the poll was of Muslims generally in the UK, not one specific set. My precise point is that if you polled *all* Christians you'd find far more with liberal and conservative views of their holy text and far fewer with fundamentalist and literalist views.
I also never mentioned 'fear'. Here's the original post I wrote:
"Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam."
Point taken, but what is your conclusion? It sounds to me that your unspoken conclusion is that people in the UK should fear them, rather in the manner that SeanT was rather more overt about in the previous thread. I've always rather liked you, so I do hope you do not share his views!
Should we block anyone we don't like? Let's have a vote!
Having said that, it is actually one of the more sensible Brexit outcomes. Given there has to be checks somewhere in Ireland if the UK diverges from the EU, the Stranraer to Larne ferry is the obvious place to have them. It is localised to a couple of ferry ports, they have the time to do them, lorries are going through other checks anyway, it keeps the land border with 300 crossing points clean. Nortthen Ireland, which doesn't have much going for it economically, gets a free trade zone.
But they would be different and so the DUP will never accept it. Never! Never!
Seriously, I wonder if the DUP would ever come round to campaigning to remain. They can't trust any version of May's Deal because even if she is sincere in wanting to keep the Union together, there will always be others in her party who prioritise divergence of England from the EU.
Maybe they want to remain because otherwise what would they be for? They are far too thick to be able to comment upon much else!
Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam.
In the UK? Worldwide?
Either way, I don't think you're right.
Morris Dancer is taking “fundamentalist” to mean “I believe my Holy Book is literally the word of God, beginning to end”. In that respect he is surely right. The whole point of Islam is that you entirely believe in the words of the Prophet, as expressed in the Koran, in a way that is not true of, say, Christians and the Bible, post the Enlightenment
Right. There are some wobbles in Christian countries, see for example the evangelicals in the US, or 20th century Ireland, but in general there is secular government and bible interpretation. Though maybe non-Western Christianity is more literal, if one considers the tensions in the Anglican communion as an example.
I don't know enough about Islam to make specific judgements, but in general it's clear that they aren't as far down that road as Christianity is and, compared to when Turkey was established as an avowedly secular state, it seems as though Islam has become more fundamentalist rather than less.
That said, I worry about the future fire Christian minorities in Muslim countries when I hear people stating that there's no room for Muslims in Christian countries.
Indeed the Reformation and Enlightenment was a European/Christian thing and very divisive for it's time of course. Few Islamic nations had their own enlightenment and we almost hubristically act as if our post Enlightenment mores are going to be the same in the rest of the world. It's not.
It isn't discriminatory to look down on any pre enlightenment mythology.
And it should go without saying but doesn't sadly that is referring to the belief system and not all people who may or may not be believers.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
Mr. Foremain, I specifically said I didn't use the term pejoratively.
My point is that this is a significant difference between Islam and Christianity and we should be aware of it. Islam isn't just Christianity with a bit more praying and a bit less bacon. The general interpretation of the text is taken in a more literal way by more Muslims than Christians.
Greater understanding is a good thing.
Greater understanding of the correct use of religious terminology would also be nice. I'm a bit surprised, to be honest, that the only use of the term 'fundamentalist' it seems most here have encountered is pejoratively through news reports, but I suppose if others didn't do religious studies at school that would explain it.
My school was about 50% Asian Muslim. Except for Eid, it made practically no difference at all, and has proven quite useful for perspective. We also had one actual Christian (the rest of us had to pretend for assemblies, because atheism was, apparently, not acceptable) who was probably a fundamentalist himself (I once asked him, politely, if he thought I were going to Hell. He also answered politely, with a very civilised "Yes").
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
Ah, in your anxiety to express your antipathy toward those of a different faith you clearly overlooked the previous comment before hitting the keyboard. Keep taking the tablets.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
I saw one of them christians on the tv the other night snatch the Life Of Brian dvd out of the guy's hand and march off to burn it.
Having said that, it is actually one of the more sensible Brexit outcomes. Given there has to be checks somewhere in Ireland if the UK diverges from the EU, the Stranraer to Larne ferry is the obvious place to have them. It is localised to a couple of ferry ports, they have the time to do them, lorries are going through other checks anyway, it keeps the land border with 300 crossing points clean. Nortthen Ireland, which doesn't have much going for it economically, gets a free trade zone.
But they would be different and so the DUP will never accept it. Never! Never!
Seriously, I wonder if the DUP would ever come round to campaigning to remain. They can't trust any version of May's Deal because even if she is sincere in wanting to keep the Union together, there will always be others in her party who prioritise divergence of England from the EU.
Maybe they want to remain because otherwise what would they be for? They are far too thick to be able to comment upon much else!
They won't say it publicly these days but the DUP actually LIKE a hard border with the RoI. That border marks out Northern Ireland as a safe space for Protestant Unionists like themselves. It isn't simply an administrative demarcation, it defines Northern Ireland as what it is.
But they got carried away with enthusiasm for borders and forgot that the status quo is their friend.
Mr. Endillion, that doesn't include those who didn't express a view either way... I think that was circa 22%. Which would give a 20 points lead or so to those who wanted homosexuality banned.
Anyway, if you have any polling that shows a majority of Muslims don't believe the Quran to be literally/fundamentally true, I'd be glad to see it.
Sorry, not having that. If you don't have a view on something where your dogma says you should have one, you get automatically filed into the "not a fundamentalist" box.
As I responded to SeanT: there are (in my view; I'm extrapolating heavily here) a lot of religious people who will nominally claim to sign up to every word of their creed, but whom in practice - or when pressed - will privately admit either doubts or that they hadn't really thought about it properly. Your claim, as I understand it, is that Islam has fewer of those people. The survey you quoted, to my mind, indicates that for the UK at least this is not the case.
Mr. Foremain, the poll was of Muslims generally in the UK, not one specific set. My precise point is that if you polled *all* Christians you'd find far more with liberal and conservative views of their holy text and far fewer with fundamentalist and literalist views.
I also never mentioned 'fear'. Here's the original post I wrote:
"Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam."
Point taken, but what is your conclusion? It sounds to me that your unspoken conclusion is that people in the UK should fear them, rather in the manner that SeanT was rather more overt about in the previous thread. I've always rather liked you, so I do hope you do not share his views!
I don't believe that but I think our secular society was hard won and is very important. We should treat fundamentalist Muslims the same as fundamentalist Christians. A healthy level of mockery rather than respect would be good for that.
but Barnier made it clear that even if the ERG allows the deal to pass on the 12th there won't be enough time left for the EU to ratify, so an extension is unevitable and therefore the chances for Betfair settling the leave on 29th bets as winners are extremely slim, no? I beg to disagree with Mr Smithson and argue for a value being present in the no leave bets at the current odds of 1.17.
Mr. Foremain, I specifically said I didn't use the term pejoratively.
My point is that this is a significant difference between Islam and Christianity and we should be aware of it. Islam isn't just Christianity with a bit more praying and a bit less bacon. The general interpretation of the text is taken in a more literal way by more Muslims than Christians.
Greater understanding is a good thing.
Greater understanding of the correct use of religious terminology would also be nice. I'm a bit surprised, to be honest, that the only use of the term 'fundamentalist' it seems most here have encountered is pejoratively through news reports, but I suppose if others didn't do religious studies at school that would explain it.
My school was about 50% Asian Muslim. Except for Eid, it made practically no difference at all, and has proven quite useful for perspective. We also had one actual Christian (the rest of us had to pretend for assemblies, because atheism was, apparently, not acceptable) who was probably a fundamentalist himself (I once asked him, politely, if he thought I were going to Hell. He also answered politely, with a very civilised "Yes").
Indeed, and nice response if I may say. However, I do think there is a danger that many people want to equate radical Islamist violence with Islam, and this is a false interpretation.
I remember being at school and being told that because my mother was Irish and we were Catholic, I therefore supported the IRA. Ironic really as my father was in the Army! The point I tried to make is that in spite of the Quran's strict teaching on the face of it, there is in fact, a huge divergence of opinion on what makes a good Muslim.
A grannie giving out pro People’s Vote leaflets has been attacked by a man shouting anti EU abuse .
Probably egged on by the odious Mark Francois who seems to be appearing on every news broadcast and is happy to promote violence if the ERG nutjobs don’t get their way.
Mr. Foremain, I specifically said I didn't use the term pejoratively.
My point is that this is a significant difference between Islam and Christianity and we should be aware of it. Islam isn't just Christianity with a bit more praying and a bit less bacon. The general interpretation of the text is taken in a more literal way by more Muslims than Christians.
Greater understanding is a good thing.
Greater understanding of the correct use of religious terminology would also be nice. I'm a bit surprised, to be honest, that the only use of the term 'fundamentalist' it seems most here have encountered is pejoratively through news reports, but I suppose if others didn't do religious studies at school that would explain it.
My school was about 50% Asian Muslim. Except for Eid, it made practically no difference at all, and has proven quite useful for perspective. We also had one actual Christian (the rest of us had to pretend for assemblies, because atheism was, apparently, not acceptable) who was probably a fundamentalist himself (I once asked him, politely, if he thought I were going to Hell. He also answered politely, with a very civilised "Yes").
"My point is that this is a significant difference between Islam and Christianity "
There are many differences. That does not mean that Christianity is free from similar, if different, problems to the ones you mention in Islam.
For instance, the Pope's recent utterances about the problems within Catholicism went unnoticed on here by PB's crime correspondents (who pretend to care about girls and women).
The current Pope is far from perfect (in fact, you could argue he isn't infallible ), but he is trying to address what are, in my view at least, massively important issues. And it isn't just Catholicism: the CofE has had significant issues.
And there's another issues: the conflation of religion with culture, both by people outside and within. As an example, FGM is not an Islamic practice, yet people who want to justify or excuse it try to say it is (and therefore becomes a religious right). In fact, FGM is cultural, and occurs in non-Muslims in the same areas.
Indeed. Can May really survive another heavy defeat? There has to come a point when we conclude that if May is the answer we are asking the wrong question.
David Herdson said: A change of PM will not change the parliamentary/diplomatic maths and will waste precious time.
I say: That has been my view up to now but we have a PM who is utterly unpersuasive, could not build a consensus to save her life and just seems to have no chance of getting a perfectly respectable deal through a hostile Commons. Time for someone else to have a go.
Anyway, if you agree with me that the EU's tweets today show that the cavalry isn't coming in the form of a major concession and that the opponents of the deal aren't going to be sweet-talked by these gewgaws, the 1.22 that you can get on Betfair that the second meaningful vote will be lost looks very good value.
Anyway, if you agree with me that the EU's tweets today show that the cavalry isn't coming in the form of a major concession and that the opponents of the deal aren't going to be sweet-talked by these gewgaws, the 1.22 that you can get on Betfair that the second meaningful vote will be lost looks very good value.
It really is.
And I'm starting to like TM gone by July at around 8 or 9.
Accept Labour Brexit, Crash Out, REF2/Revoke - they all look like The End for her to me.
Indeed. Can May really survive another heavy defeat? There has to come a point when we conclude that if May is the answer we are asking the wrong question.
David Herdson said: A change of PM will not change the parliamentary/diplomatic maths and will waste precious time.
I say: That has been my view up to now but we have a PM who is utterly unpersuasive, could not build a consensus to save her life and just seems to have no chance of getting a perfectly respectable deal through a hostile Commons. Time for someone else to have a go.
Jezza
If he does he might just save her reputation in History. Her incompetence will be fully eclipsed and totally forgotten if the electorate is ever mad enough to give Mr Thicky the keys of No 10 !
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
The hardcore Protestants caused a fair amount of difficulty 40 years later.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
..and "us" Catholics also had a good go at the government of Mrs T in Brighton. "we" also killed a lot of British soldiers and civilians. As a Catholic I supported all of it, because that is what some people tell us. "Catholic, huh, must be a terrorist. Loyal to the Pope"
Mr. Jessop, on the Pope, I'd be inclined to repeat my condemnation for his idiotic and not nearly censured enough comment, after the Charlie Hebdo atrocity, that if someone insulted his mother he'd punch them in the face.
Mr. Jessop, on the Pope, I'd be inclined to repeat my condemnation for his idiotic and not nearly censured enough comment, after the Charlie Hebdo atrocity, that if someone insulted his mother he'd punch them in the face.
Populus are doing this study for the entire season.
Indeed. Can May really survive another heavy defeat? There has to come a point when we conclude that if May is the answer we are asking the wrong question.
David Herdson said: A change of PM will not change the parliamentary/diplomatic maths and will waste precious time.
I say: That has been my view up to now but we have a PM who is utterly unpersuasive, could not build a consensus to save her life and just seems to have no chance of getting a perfectly respectable deal through a hostile Commons. Time for someone else to have a go.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
..and "us" Catholics also had a good go at the government of Mrs T in Brighton. "we" also killed a lot of British soldiers and civilians. As a Catholic I supported all of it, because that is what some people tell us. "Catholic, huh, must be a terrorist. Loyal to the Pope"
Although 'you' Catholics were fighting for a United Ireland not a worldwide caliphate (political not religious - religious wars are the worst IMHO)
Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam.
In the UK? Worldwide?
Either way, I don't think you're right.
Morris Dancer is taking “fundamentalist” to mean “I believe my Holy Book is literally the word of God, beginning to end”. In that respect he is surely right. The whole point of Islam is that you entirely believe in the words of the Prophet, as expressed in the Koran, in a way that is not true of, say, Christians and the Bible, post the Enlightenment
Right. There are some wobbles in Christian countries, see for example the evangelicals in the US, or 20th century Ireland, but in general there is secular government and bible interpretation. Though maybe non-Western Christianity is more literal, if one considers the tensions in the Anglican communion as an example.
I don't think people outside the US realize just how extreme some American evangelicals are, especially the Dominionists. They're not a "wobble"; they're serious, well organized and they want to institute a "Christian" theocracy so extreme it'd make Atwood's Gilead look like Hoxha's Albania. There have been worryingly successful attempts by them in recent years to infiltrate the USAF. Why? Because the USAF run the missile silos and some strands of their thinking equate "Judgement Day" with all-out nuclear war.
They know not to be too open about their extremism though, so they still below most people's radar. The current VP maybe isn't quite as bonkers as some, but he's certainly the most extremist Christian fundamentalist to achieve high office in the US so far. One of the reasons I'm not sure I'd really like to see Trump impeached is that it would put Pence into the Oval Office.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
I saw one of them christians on the tv the other night snatch the Life Of Brian dvd out of the guy's hand and march off to burn it.
Mr. Mariner, divorcing religious and politics can sometimes be very difficult, though. The Albigensian Crusade stands out as a tricky example of trying to discern what was religious and what was political, and why everyone was called Raymond*.
*No, really, almost every nobleman was called Raymond. It's quite confusing.
but Barnier made it clear that even if the ERG allows the deal to pass on the 12th there won't be enough time left for the EU to ratify, so an extension is unevitable and therefore the chances for Betfair settling the leave on 29th bets as winners are extremely slim, no? I beg to disagree with Mr Smithson and argue for a value being present in the no leave bets at the current odds of 1.17.
Along these lines, I'm personally wondering if there would be huge value in the period between a meaningful vote being passed and this being realised.
A grannie giving out pro People’s Vote leaflets has been attacked by a man shouting anti EU abuse .
Probably egged on by the odious Mark Francois who seems to be appearing on every news broadcast and is happy to promote violence if the ERG nutjobs don’t get their way.
Mr. rpjs, there are some full-blown nutters out there. While ago since I heard about it, but Westboro Baptise Church rather stood out.
Arguably the Westboro "church" is just the seriously dysfunctional and psychologically damaged Phelps extended family. Their activities have died down somewhat since their paterfamilias died (ironically they excommunicated him not long before as he had a deathbed change of heart about his homophobia!) and many of the younger members managed to extricate themselves from the cult.
Is this going to change anyone's mind? My guess is no.
It makes a "blame the EU" narrative much harder.
Wanna bet?
Indeed. For many people, "failing and blaming" is not a bug, it's a feature
I think it's pretty much settled at this point that whatever is offered, the MPs will reject it and blame the EU. They could offer free gold and JRM would complain it's not platinum
I used the terms literalist/fundamentalist (correctly, as it happens) to refer to the majority Muslim view of the Quran. That's one of the key ways it's different to Christianity which has a conservative*/liberal majority.
*Journalist misuse the term 'conservative' in a religious sense all the time, speaking of things like "Conservative clerics from Iran". Conservative, religiously, just means that someone holds much, but not all, of the contents of a religious text to be literally true and believes that the whole text has at least implicit value (ie parables teaching important lessons).
It's fascinating, if tiring to repeat myself with what I thought was a straightforward statement, that so many here have apparently never heard that (correct) definition of 'fundamentalist' before. The term itself is not pejorative, it just refers to a literal or near literal view of a religious text.
That definition of 'religious fundamentalist' - holding the genuine belief that virtually every single word in the Koran, say, or the Bible is true - sounds perfectly valid to me.
But therefore it IS pejorative. Or at least it ought to be.
Mr. kinabalu, every textual interpretation has critics. Liberals get knocked on the basis that there's not much point having a holy book if you believe almost none of it actually happened.
but Barnier made it clear that even if the ERG allows the deal to pass on the 12th there won't be enough time left for the EU to ratify, so an extension is unevitable and therefore the chances for Betfair settling the leave on 29th bets as winners are extremely slim, no? I beg to disagree with Mr Smithson and argue for a value being present in the no leave bets at the current odds of 1.17.
Along these lines, I'm personally wondering if there would be huge value in the period between a meaningful vote being passed and this being realised.
It could well take a day or two before it’s realised.
Quick question. As many here know, I have £500 riding on a Mar 29 departure. It was placed as an insurance policy against "no deal". At the time I thought the probability of delay-followed-by-no-deal was negligible, but that appears to be an underestimate:despite @Big_G_NorthWales sanguinity. What bets are there that would enable me to hedge against delay-followed-by-no-deal?
but Barnier made it clear that even if the ERG allows the deal to pass on the 12th there won't be enough time left for the EU to ratify, so an extension is unevitable and therefore the chances for Betfair settling the leave on 29th bets as winners are extremely slim, no? I beg to disagree with Mr Smithson and argue for a value being present in the no leave bets at the current odds of 1.17.
Along these lines, I'm personally wondering if there would be huge value in the period between a meaningful vote being passed and this being realised.
Good point. Do you have any particular betting market in mind?
No, I don't like Self either but he's clever and Francois has the brainpower of amoeba, so hardly a fair fight.
Francois has tended to come over as a bit dense to me too. But I've just wikied him and it's History at Bristol Uni having gone to a standard Comp. Which is nothing whatsoever to sneeze at.
Perhaps he is just pretending to be thick in order to relate to his target section of the electorate.
fundamentalist has a specific meaning in religion, namely the view that a text (the Quran, in this case) is literally the Word of God. That the events within literally happened. (The difference between a literalist and fundamentalist is that the former believes every single thing is 100% right, and a fundamentalist will accept that there might be the odd errant comma and apostrophe due to human failing in copying the document).
Bit annoyed that I tracked down the polling from Trevor Phillips' programme a few years ago and it doesn't actually seem to ask about views on the Quran. Shame.
Mr. Charles, no. Excepting a bit of early Christian/Islamic stuff I've encountered in classical history I haven't read much at all on religion since school.
Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam.
How would we measure that?
First, there is the distinction between the cultural Muslims, and the actual Muslims. I have a number of friends who drink and cheerfully describe themselves as unbelieving of God. But who also tick "Islam" on forms asking for their religion.
Secondly, there are those who do believe in God, but aren't exactly that keen on all the rules, and might make it to the Mosque twice a year (usually to keep more religious parents happy). I went to a 60% Muslim school in Bedford, and I have a lot of Facebook friends who'd fall into that category. (And I suspect TSE is in it too.)
Thirdly, there are quite a few different strands of Islamic thought - Sufis, etc. - who don't fit neatly into the categories. The Islam that is practicised in many parts of the world is very different from the Wahhabi version. (I would argue that fundamentalist Islam has arrived as a global problem because Saudi Arabia got oil money and used it to spread their poison.) Simply, it's no coincidence Saudi Arabia is 1% of Muslims, but 50% of Muslim terrorists.
And finally, even among the fundamentalists, there are those who are violent and seek an Islamic celiphate, and those who just want to follow the rules in the Koran and provide for their families.
ON topic, I am in Nepal right now, doing a travel piece for The Times.
It’s a troubled country with amazing culture and horrible poverty and quite nice beer.
But my, oh my, what it does have is beautiful people. The men often look like young dashing Hussars, well built and athletic, the women are even better: generally exquisite, with a mix of sultry southern brown eyes, high Aryan cheekbones, and the rosy complexion of the steppes.
Having now travelled the entire world (apart from Moldova) I can now say with authority the best looking people in the world, on average, are the Nepalese.
They are also some of the poorest. There must be a profound lesson here, but I haven’t grasped it yet.
Nepal doesn't have any steppes.
The former chairman of my trustees does at lot of work with Nepal (his wife is one of the leading movers & shakers in leprosy). I agree with @seant. Nepalese girls are seriously cute - almost as cute as SoCal lasses
Having said that, it is actually one of the more sensible Brexit outcomes. Given there has to be checks somewhere in Ireland if the UK diverges from the EU, the Stranraer to Larne ferry is the obvious place to have them. It is localised to a couple of ferry ports, they have the time to do them, lorries are going through other checks anyway, it keeps the land border with 300 crossing points clean. Nortthen Ireland, which doesn't have much going for it economically, gets a free trade zone.
But they would be different and so the DUP will never accept it. Never! Never!
Add in that the exit can only be triggered with the consent of the people of NI...
Quick question. As many here know, I have £500 riding on a Mar 29 departure. It was placed as an insurance policy against "no deal". At the time I thought the probability of delay-followed-by-no-deal was negligible, but that appears to be an underestimate:despite @Big_G_NorthWales sanguinity. What bets are there that would enable me to hedge against delay-followed-by-no-deal?
The delay followed by no deal scenario almost certainly means a short delay in which we don't take part in the European elections, so if you can bet on the length of the extension or whether we take part in the elections that might be a way to hedge it.
Mr. rpjs, there are some full-blown nutters out there. While ago since I heard about it, but Westboro Baptise Church rather stood out.
Organisations like the Exclusive Brethren are more worrying, as they are much better at controlling much larger numbers of people.
Arguably the most worrying are the Prosperity Gospel types. Basically a way con men (almost all of them men), can extort money from the ignorant and infirm with full legal protection, under the banner of religion.
fundamentalist has a specific meaning in religion, namely the view that a text (the Quran, in this case) is literally the Word of God. That the events within literally happened. (The difference between a literalist and fundamentalist is that the former believes every single thing is 100% right, and a fundamentalist will accept that there might be the odd errant comma and apostrophe due to human failing in copying the document).
Bit annoyed that I tracked down the polling from Trevor Phillips' programme a few years ago and it doesn't actually seem to ask about views on the Quran. Shame.
According to this official government document, it's estimated that 4.7% of the female population of Southwark have been subjected to this practice, something I find quite shocking.
"1.3 The sub-committee chose this subject because FGM poses the risk of significant harm being done to Southwark girls. Southwark has the highest prevalence of FGM in the country. A report published in July 2015 by City University London & Equality Now found that the highest prevalence rates in were in London boroughs, with the highest number being 4.7% of women in Southwark. The estimated percentage of girls born to Southwark mothers who are FGM survivors is 10.4%."
Quick question. As many here know, I have £500 riding on a Mar 29 departure. It was placed as an insurance policy against "no deal". At the time I thought the probability of delay-followed-by-no-deal was negligible, but that appears to be an underestimate:despite @Big_G_NorthWales sanguinity. What bets are there that would enable me to hedge against delay-followed-by-no-deal?
Just lay off the bet; we aren't going to be leaving on Mar 29 and aren't going to be leaving without a deal.
Mr. Mariner, divorcing religious and politics can sometimes be very difficult, though. The Albigensian Crusade stands out as a tricky example of trying to discern what was religious and what was political, and why everyone was called Raymond*.
*No, really, almost every nobleman was called Raymond. It's quite confusing.
Can’t you tell Raymond de Blanc from Raymond de Bloise?
Mr. kinabalu, I'm not defending that position. Indeed, I'm an atheist. I'm above such petty squabbles.
Not like those cowardly fence-sitting agnostics.
Well I'm with you but not quite. I have no religious faith but I wish I did. Not in the 'fundamentalist' sense (which requires one to put one's brain in a pickle jar) but in the sense that with a religious faith comes a hope, indeed an expectation, of some sort of eternal and resolving afterlife. Without this (I find) one is constantly gripped by a feeling that everything, including oneself and all that one holds dear, is meaningless and absurd. This can be an ecstatic feeling, it can be very liberating, but is most of the time unpleasant, and on occasions deeply unpleasant, verging on nausea.
A faith would prevent this, and is also a win versus no lose proposition. The win is that one's life on this mortal coil would be made more tolerable. And it's no lose because by the time one is in a position to realize that it is all bollox, that there is in fact nothing else but this, one is dead as a dodo and therefore unable to be disappointed.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
It was a fawkes terrrorist. His hands were not Guyded properly.
fundamentalist has a specific meaning in religion, namely the view that a text (the Quran, in this case) is literally the Word of God. That the events within literally happened. (The difference between a literalist and fundamentalist is that the former believes every single thing is 100% right, and a fundamentalist will accept that there might be the odd errant comma and apostrophe due to human failing in copying the document).
Bit annoyed that I tracked down the polling from Trevor Phillips' programme a few years ago and it doesn't actually seem to ask about views on the Quran. Shame.
Mr. Thompson, the clear majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. I don't say that in a pejorative way, only in reference to their approach to religious books. Biblical fundamentalists (and literalists, who are almost identical) are in a minority compared to conservatives (a term which journalists abuse and misuse all the time...) and liberals. That is not true of Islam.
In the UK? Worldwide?
Either way, I don't think you're right.
Morris Dancer is taking “fundamentalist” to mean “I believe my Holy Book is literally the word of God, beginning to end”. In that respect he is surely right. The whole point of Islam is that you entirely believe in the words of the Prophet, as expressed in the Koran, in a way that is not true of, say, Christians and the Bible, post the Enlightenment
Right. There are some wobbles in Christian countries, see for example the evangelicals in the US, or 20th century Ireland, but in general there is secular government and bible interpretation. Though maybe non-Western Christianity is more literal, if one considers the tensions in the Anglican communion as an example.
I don't think people outside the US realize just how extreme some American evangelicals are, especially the Dominionists. They're not a "wobble"; they're serious, well organized and they want to institute a "Christian" theocracy so extreme it'd make Atwood's Gilead look like Hoxha's Albania. There have been worryingly successful attempts by them in recent years to infiltrate the USAF. Why? Because the USAF run the missile silos and some strands of their thinking equate "Judgement Day" with all-out nuclear war.
They know not to be too open about their extremism though, so they still below most people's radar. The current VP maybe isn't quite as bonkers as some, but he's certainly the most extremist Christian fundamentalist to achieve high office in the US so far. One of the reasons I'm not sure I'd really like to see Trump impeached is that it would put Pence into the Oval Office.
Smartest thing Trump has done, making the downright dangerous Pence his successor if he should fall under any shape of bus.....
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
It was a fawkes terrrorist. His hands were not Guyded properly.
"Life expectancy falls by six months in biggest drop in UK forecasts Decline in longevity in England and Wales ‘a trend as opposed to a blip’, experts say"
Mr. Foremain, in 2016, polling showed 12% of British Muslims tended to disagree and 35% strongly disagreed that homosexuals should be accepted as teachers (I happened to still have that poll up).
Also, 14% tended to disagree and 38% strongly disagreed that homosexuality should be legal.
I never said *all* Muslims believe anything. I said a clear majority had a fundamentalist view of the Quran. I'd welcome any polling links that confirm or deny that.
That's a weird result.
That means there are people who think homosexuality is (or should be) a criminal offence. But it's OK for those criminals to teach their kids.
"Life expectancy falls by six months in biggest drop in UK forecasts Decline in longevity in England and Wales ‘a trend as opposed to a blip’, experts say"
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
It was a fawkes terrrorist. His hands were not Guyded properly.
I’m sure he was wracked with guilt
Really? I thought they used the Duke of Exeter's Daughter.
Apparently she was notorious for her hard screwing.
Mr. Pulpstar, I learnt it at school (A-level in Religious Studies).
Don't have my school books to hand, as you might expect. Checking Wikipedia, this is under the Revelations section: "The Quran (literally, "Recitation") is viewed by Muslims as the final revelation and literal word of God..."
That's a literalist/fundamentalist perspective of the Quran and, I believe, the position held by the vast majority of Muslims.
Later, in the Sunni section: "Traditionalist theology is characterized by its adherence to a literal understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah, the belief in the Quran to be uncreated and eternal, and opposes reason (kalam) in religious matters"
Many Christians, particularly fundamentalists, believe in the literal truth of the Holy Bible, not just the New Testament, but also the old. Suggesting that all Muslims think homosexuals should be thrown off tall buildings is really as silly as suggesting large numbers of Christians believe blasphemers should be stoned.
However, there *are* plenty of muslims who will actively campaign against homosexuality in aggressive and intimidating ways. I don't think there are that many Christians who would campaign in like manner against taking God's name in vain.
I guess you don't remember when Monty Python brought out a film called "the Life of Brian" then?
Remember it well. All those members of the Methodists and the United Reformed Church blowing up parliament, beheading film stars and stabbing policemen. Who could possibly forget it.
The most celebrated attempt to blow up Parliament was by Catholic militants IIRC.
It was a fawkes terrrorist. His hands were not Guyded properly.
I’m sure he was wracked with guilt
Really? I thought they used the Duke of Exeter's Daughter.
Apparently she was notorious for her hard screwing.
I think you’re stretching the truth until it hangs by a thread. To draw it out, you’re giving it no quarter
Comments
The ERG are not going to agree to anything the DUP won’t agree to.
It isn't discriminatory to look down on any pre enlightenment mythology.
And it should go without saying but doesn't sadly that is referring to the belief system and not all people who may or may not be believers.
My point is that this is a significant difference between Islam and Christianity and we should be aware of it. Islam isn't just Christianity with a bit more praying and a bit less bacon. The general interpretation of the text is taken in a more literal way by more Muslims than Christians.
Greater understanding is a good thing.
Greater understanding of the correct use of religious terminology would also be nice. I'm a bit surprised, to be honest, that the only use of the term 'fundamentalist' it seems most here have encountered is pejoratively through news reports, but I suppose if others didn't do religious studies at school that would explain it.
My school was about 50% Asian Muslim. Except for Eid, it made practically no difference at all, and has proven quite useful for perspective. We also had one actual Christian (the rest of us had to pretend for assemblies, because atheism was, apparently, not acceptable) who was probably a fundamentalist himself (I once asked him, politely, if he thought I were going to Hell. He also answered politely, with a very civilised "Yes").
But they got carried away with enthusiasm for borders and forgot that the status quo is their friend.
one, you get automatically filed into the "not a fundamentalist" box.
As I responded to SeanT: there are (in my view; I'm extrapolating heavily here) a lot of religious people who will nominally claim to sign up to every word of their creed, but whom in practice - or when pressed - will privately admit either doubts or that they hadn't really thought about it properly. Your claim, as I understand it, is that Islam has fewer of those people. The survey you quoted, to my mind, indicates that for the UK at least this is not the case.
I remember being at school and being told that because my mother was Irish and we were Catholic, I therefore supported the IRA. Ironic really as my father was in the Army! The point I tried to make is that in spite of the Quran's strict teaching on the face of it, there is in fact, a huge divergence of opinion on what makes a good Muslim.
Probably egged on by the odious Mark Francois who seems to be appearing on every news broadcast and is happy to promote violence if the ERG nutjobs don’t get their way.
Mr. Foremain, thank you.
There are many differences. That does not mean that Christianity is free from similar, if different, problems to the ones you mention in Islam.
For instance, the Pope's recent utterances about the problems within Catholicism went unnoticed on here by PB's crime correspondents (who pretend to care about girls and women).
As an example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47134033
https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/11381/indian-catholic-priest-jailed-for-20-years-for-rape-
etc, etc.
The current Pope is far from perfect (in fact, you could argue he isn't infallible
And there's another issues: the conflation of religion with culture, both by people outside and within. As an example, FGM is not an Islamic practice, yet people who want to justify or excuse it try to say it is (and therefore becomes a religious right). In fact, FGM is cultural, and occurs in non-Muslims in the same areas.
I'm getting paid £420 to watch F1 races this season.
I was paid £50 to watch last season's British Grand Prix.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/1104012217178091520
And I'm starting to like TM gone by July at around 8 or 9.
Accept Labour Brexit, Crash Out, REF2/Revoke - they all look like The End for her to me.
Yep, it's definitely just a minority within the Labour. No doubt about it.
Most of the public really don’t give a fig if NI is treated differently . It already has different rules especially on animal checks between the UK .
The DUP should have been pushing for a softer Brexit , it was a disgrace to begin with they backed Leave given the history there .
Why are you getting paid for that?
Mr. Jessop, on the Pope, I'd be inclined to repeat my condemnation for his idiotic and not nearly censured enough comment, after the Charlie Hebdo atrocity, that if someone insulted his mother he'd punch them in the face.
https://www.populus.co.uk/case-studies/biometrics/
For every race I watch live I get paid £20.
They know not to be too open about their extremism though, so they still below most people's radar. The current VP maybe isn't quite as bonkers as some, but he's certainly the most extremist Christian fundamentalist to achieve high office in the US so far. One of the reasons I'm not sure I'd really like to see Trump impeached is that it would put Pence into the Oval Office.
*No, really, almost every nobleman was called Raymond. It's quite confusing.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1104034216365445121
Let’s get it done !
So we’ve lost all the previous vacuous nonsense and replaced it with this .
I think it's pretty much settled at this point that whatever is offered, the MPs will reject it and blame the EU. They could offer free gold and JRM would complain it's not platinum
But therefore it IS pejorative. Or at least it ought to be.
Not like those cowardly fence-sitting agnostics.
Perhaps he is just pretending to be thick in order to relate to his target section of the electorate.
That would be quite clever, if he is.
First, there is the distinction between the cultural Muslims, and the actual Muslims. I have a number of friends who drink and cheerfully describe themselves as unbelieving of God. But who also tick "Islam" on forms asking for their religion.
Secondly, there are those who do believe in God, but aren't exactly that keen on all the rules, and might make it to the Mosque twice a year (usually to keep more religious parents happy). I went to a 60% Muslim school in Bedford, and I have a lot of Facebook friends who'd fall into that category. (And I suspect TSE is in it too.)
Thirdly, there are quite a few different strands of Islamic thought - Sufis, etc. - who don't fit neatly into the categories. The Islam that is practicised in many parts of the world is very different from the Wahhabi version. (I would argue that fundamentalist Islam has arrived as a global problem because Saudi Arabia got oil money and used it to spread their poison.) Simply, it's no coincidence Saudi Arabia is 1% of Muslims, but 50% of Muslim terrorists.
And finally, even among the fundamentalists, there are those who are violent and seek an Islamic celiphate, and those who just want to follow the rules in the Koran and provide for their families.
http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s60750/FGM scrutiny draft report.pdf
"1.3 The sub-committee chose this subject because FGM poses the risk of
significant harm being done to Southwark girls. Southwark has the highest
prevalence of FGM in the country. A report published in July 2015 by City
University London & Equality Now found that the highest prevalence rates in
were in London boroughs, with the highest number being 4.7% of women in
Southwark. The estimated percentage of girls born to Southwark mothers
who are FGM survivors is 10.4%."
And Count Raymond of course
A faith would prevent this, and is also a win versus no lose proposition. The win is that one's life on this mortal coil would be made more tolerable. And it's no lose because by the time one is in a position to realize that it is all bollox, that there is in fact nothing else but this, one is dead as a dodo and therefore unable to be disappointed.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1842125834/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1842125834
https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1104080947354447872
Decline in longevity in England and Wales ‘a trend as opposed to a blip’, experts say"
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/07/life-expectancy-slumps-by-five-months
That means there are people who think homosexuality is (or should be) a criminal offence. But it's OK for those criminals to teach their kids.
Apparently she was notorious for her hard screwing.