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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If it’s any consolation to LAB – the last CON 10%+ leads were

SystemSystem Posts: 12,172
edited February 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If it’s any consolation to LAB – the last CON 10%+ leads were in the days before GE2017 – and we know what happened then

The overnight YouGov poll giving the Conservatives an 11% lead was the worst for LAB since the 2017 general election. I like to look at polls in context which is why above there there is the full Wikipedia list of all GB voting intention polls this year.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited February 2019
    First like leave with no deal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Second like Leave
  • Labour are all over the place this morning. Tom Watson trying to deal with it by looks of things. Talking about "sovereignty of the current shadow cabinet."

    Who is actually running Labour this morning?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    tlg86 said:

    First like leave with no deal.

    So you've accidentally posted the first response.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Unlike 2017, Labour can't now keep its coalition of Remainers and Leavers together. As we are seeing from the anger of Labour-Leave seat MPs.

    Plus there are plenty of folk in 2017 who lent their vote to Labour. Before it was exposed as a cesspit of anti-semitism. OGH, for exapmle. (Although to be fair, Corbyn's strong showing on the back of borrowed votes has emboldened these leftist anti-semites to crawl out the woodwork.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited February 2019
    No, that should be of no consolation to Labour at all.

    Not least because people being asked now know how they voted last time, whereas when they were asked in 2017 they didn't yet know how the campaign would unfold. People don't re-set to how they were thinking before an election once polls close.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724

    Labour are all over the place this morning. Tom Watson trying to deal with it by looks of things. Talking about "sovereignty of the current shadow cabinet."

    Who is actually running Labour this morning?

    Who is actually running Labour this morning is just a minor skirmish in the larger battle: who will be running Labour in the future.

    Let's hope it's the sane brigade rather than the anti-Semites and those who excuse the anti-Semites ...
  • Yeah we know what happened - Labour ended up 55 seats behind the Tories. Remember, seats matter, not votes!
  • Labour are all over the place this morning. Tom Watson trying to deal with it by looks of things. Talking about "sovereignty of the current shadow cabinet."

    Who is actually running Labour this morning?

    Labour all over the place; Conservatives all over the place; Brexit all over the place.
  • Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    FPT

    Being a British politician at national level today is less consequential and worse in terms of opportunity cost than at any time in the last 300 years. It’s no surprise that the calibre of MPs and ministers is in decline.
  • Mr. Blue, entirely agree. The media scrutiny alone must put off a large number of people who'd do a better job than the likes of Corbyn, May, Grayling, or Abbott.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    I fear we're going to be faced with lots of interviews where she says she's been hard done by, that she did nothing wrong in the first place, how she has been let down by others, and how she's the victim in all this ...
  • Labour are all over the place this morning. Tom Watson trying to deal with it by looks of things. Talking about "sovereignty of the current shadow cabinet."

    Who is actually running Labour this morning?

    Corbyn has lost control of the narrative. It seems that the fear factor that has held MPs back for the last two years is, for the moment at least, lifting. Whether this is permanent or not remains to be seen. But if the non-Unite unions are turning against the leadership it will be very hard for the Morning Star Brexiteers to restore the dominant position they had before the TIGs left.

  • RoyalBlue said:

    FPT

    Being a British politician at national level today is less consequential and worse in terms of opportunity cost than at any time in the last 300 years. It’s no surprise that the calibre of MPs and ministers is in decline.

    MPs are underpaid and under-resourced.

    That said, it is hard to credit the lack of professionalism and even intellectual curiosity to produce recent gaffes like: not knowing Dover is on the way to France; thinking Slovenia was run from Moscow; not knowing about Nationalists and Loyalists in Northern Ireland.

    And that is betting without those who've spent decades campaigning to leave the EU without ever wondering what life outside should look like.

    What a shower!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724
    tlg86 said:
    Heh. I'm glad I travelled on that line several times last week, not this one. :)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    OK, so we have a Tory PM struggling to get the Tory Brexit through parliament and drifting towards having to make a politically fiendish choice between No Deal, accept Labour Brexit policy, offer REF2 or call a GE. All of which are great for Labour. Meaning surely that Labour sit on their hands and let things unfold. It is not their problem after all. Brexit is Tory and the Tories are Brexit. It's a Tory mess. Why on earth offer lifelines.

    And yet Labour have done so by supporting REF2 without a GE. Instead of making sure that the only way to get another referendum is via a Labour government, this opens up the possibility of TM being forced into it and able to stay on, blaming the 'betrayal' of REF1 on the opposition.

    Crazy politics from Labour, albeit not a surprise. Why have they done it? Why are they acting in the national interest rather than for narrow partisan advantage? The answer, needless to say, is that Jeremy has been bullied into it. No party leader, not even Britain's finest, puts the national interest over their own if they can possibly help it. He has done this to stem rebellion amongst the group of Labour MPs for whom remaining in the EU is far more important than replacing a Tory government with a Labour one. The size of this group is JC's biggest problem. Far bigger than his negative poll ratings. He needs to do something about it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    I fear we're going to be faced with lots of interviews where she says she's been hard done by, that she did nothing wrong in the first place, how she has been let down by others, and how she's the victim in all this ...
    I fear we are going to see her voting on Brexit.

    Maybe she'll join the TIGs first.....
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,276
    edited February 2019

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    How long does Fi have to appeal?

    This is strange:

    She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice in December.

    The solicitor general reviewed the sentence after a complaint it was too lenient, but found it was not.

    The MP was found guilty of lying to police about a speeding ticket and handed a three-month jail term at the Old Bailey in January.

    The attorney general's office confirmed it would be reviewing the case after it "received a request for the case of Fiona Onasanya to be considered under the unduly lenient sentence scheme".


    I thought reviews were limited to the likes of rape and murder.

    I would expect it to be rejected on the basis of "procedure does not apply". Can we see the evaluation report?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    kinabalu said:

    OK, so we have a Tory PM struggling to get the Tory Brexit through parliament and drifting towards having to make a politically fiendish choice between No Deal, accept Labour Brexit policy, offer REF2 or call a GE. All of which are great for Labour. Meaning surely that Labour sit on their hands and let things unfold. It is not their problem after all. Brexit is Tory and the Tories are Brexit. It's a Tory mess. Why on earth offer lifelines.

    And yet Labour have done so by supporting REF2 without a GE. Instead of making sure that the only way to get another referendum is via a Labour government, this opens up the possibility of TM being forced into it and able to stay on, blaming the 'betrayal' of REF1 on the opposition.

    Crazy politics from Labour, albeit not a surprise. Why have they done it? Why are they acting in the national interest rather than for narrow partisan advantage? The answer, needless to say, is that Jeremy has been bullied into it. No party leader, not even Britain's finest, puts the national interest over their own if they can possibly help it. He has done this to stem rebellion amongst the group of Labour MPs for whom remaining in the EU is far more important than replacing a Tory government with a Labour one. The size of this group is JC's biggest problem. Far bigger than his negative poll ratings. He needs to do something about it.

    A GE election great for Labour? Run that one by me again.....
  • tlg86 said:
    No contingency plans to remove or relieve passengers. The SoS should demand ... oh, hold on, it's him isn't it.

    Anyone looking for a use for the internet of things could note foreign railways (and perhaps our own) using internet connected remote sensors to monitor trains and rail infrastructure.

  • Both major party leaders have lost all semblance of control over their MPs. That is extraordinary.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Unlike 2017, Labour can't now keep its coalition of Remainers and Leavers together. As we are seeing from the anger of Labour-Leave seat MPs.

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100307168530706432

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100321393206534144
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,276
    edited February 2019

    RoyalBlue said:

    FPT

    Being a British politician at national level today is less consequential and worse in terms of opportunity cost than at any time in the last 300 years. It’s no surprise that the calibre of MPs and ministers is in decline.

    MPs are underpaid and under-resourced.

    With a basic salary package some way north of £100k, plus all the extra responsibility, redundancy etc payments and gewgaws, that claim is a bit of a stretch, John.
  • What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    Labour are all over the place this morning. Tom Watson trying to deal with it by looks of things. Talking about "sovereignty of the current shadow cabinet."

    Who is actually running Labour this morning?

    We are back to Labour having no policy on Brexit. (Schrödingers Brexit is not a policy).
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    I'm sat on a global conference call, I can't hear the person from Germany due to a poor quality line but the person I can hear the person from Nigeria perfectly...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    RoyalBlue said:

    FPT

    Being a British politician at national level today is less consequential and worse in terms of opportunity cost than at any time in the last 300 years. It’s no surprise that the calibre of MPs and ministers is in decline.

    The problem at the heart of the system of MPs is that the high opportunity cost you mention only applies to one sub-category of would-be politicians.

    Let's take two fantastic candidates:

    Public School + Oxbridge + lawyer = high opportunity cost
    Bog standard comp + technical college or apprenticeship + Union convener = low opportunity cost
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    tlg86 said:
    No contingency plans to remove or relieve passengers. The SoS should demand ... oh, hold on, it's him isn't it.

    Anyone looking for a use for the internet of things could note foreign railways (and perhaps our own) using internet connected remote sensors to monitor trains and rail infrastructure.

    It's the North, innit. Failing doesn't give a .......
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261
    A warning for those who expect Mueller to indict Trump:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/us/politics/andrew-goldstein-mueller-investigation.html

    “He was very much measure 10 times, cut once,” said Kan M. Nawaday, a prosecutor who worked with Mr. Goldstein in the corruption unit. “Nine times out of 10, you do a lot of investigation, and you realize the conduct is pretty terrible and foul. But since you’re here to do justice, it isn’t a crime, and you walk away.”…

    …Now that Mr. Mueller’s work could soon be public, Mr. Goldstein’s record, Mr. Bharara said, is a reminder of what the investigation’s limits might be.

    “You want to have people who have had experience not only bringing high-profile cases, but in walking away from them because it’s the right thing to do,” he said. “The fact that you have a person who’s comfortable saying there’s nothing here, even though there’s a lot of clamor for it, is exactly the kind of person you want.”
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    On Fiona Onsanya, did she get 3 points and a fixed penalty notice? Or does she get away with it?
  • RoyalBlue said:

    FPT

    Being a British politician at national level today is less consequential and worse in terms of opportunity cost than at any time in the last 300 years. It’s no surprise that the calibre of MPs and ministers is in decline.

    Scientists are underpaid and under-resourced.

    Corrected it for you!

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,276
    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    tlg86 said:
    No contingency plans to remove or relieve passengers. The SoS should demand ... oh, hold on, it's him isn't it.

    Anyone looking for a use for the internet of things could note foreign railways (and perhaps our own) using internet connected remote sensors to monitor trains and rail infrastructure.

    Yeah, because railways are definitely something we want to let terrorists hack into and take control of.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724

    tlg86 said:
    No contingency plans to remove or relieve passengers. The SoS should demand ... oh, hold on, it's him isn't it.

    Anyone looking for a use for the internet of things could note foreign railways (and perhaps our own) using internet connected remote sensors to monitor trains and rail infrastructure.

    Urrrm, may I ask what you're referring to wrt Internet of Tat monitoring trains?
  • Scott_P said:

    Unlike 2017, Labour can't now keep its coalition of Remainers and Leavers together. As we are seeing from the anger of Labour-Leave seat MPs.

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100307168530706432

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100321393206534144
    But on the Scottish point there is already a Left of Centre Remain party there - the one that Labour need to take seats away from. Moving to a Remain position this late in the day is unlikely to draw any of those Remain voters away from an established and consistently Remain supporting party.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    As was the case all along Brexit will only implode if the ERG overplay their hand. I expect a climb down with some warm words from the EU and a thumping speech from the AG Cox providing the suitable ladder .

    Game over for the ERG .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Scott_P said:

    Unlike 2017, Labour can't now keep its coalition of Remainers and Leavers together. As we are seeing from the anger of Labour-Leave seat MPs.

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100307168530706432

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100321393206534144
    Tell their MPs, Rob. They are the ones pissed off... One assumes they know rather more about their electorates than you?
  • Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    What reason is there not to attempt to pervert the course of justice with punishments like that?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    tlg86 said:

    On Fiona Onsanya, did she get 3 points and a fixed penalty notice? Or does she get away with it?

    Doesn't, from Wikipedia, look as though she got a penalty. Of course they might well not have recorded a fixed penalty.
  • nico67 said:

    As was the case all along Brexit will only implode if the ERG overplay their hand. I expect a climb down with some warm words from the EU and a thumping speech from the AG Cox providing the suitable ladder .

    Game over for the ERG .

    It may be too late.

    Imagine you're a Conservative MP who voted Remain in the referendum and reluctantly voted for the deal. In fact, let's put some names on this - Paul Masterton and Antoinette Sandbach, for example. You did your duty in January. You made it clear that you were doing this to honour the referendum mandate. But your ERG colleagues decided to shoot the whole thing down.

    You now have a new option - to approve the deal, contingent on a referendum being held to ratify it. If that's what it takes to get this whole process over the line, might you take it?

    I think if I were them I might.
  • Mr. Observer, we live in extraordinary times.

    Again.

    It's not that long ago we had a financial crisis and the worst recession in British history.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    If a solicitor is convicted of an offence they should self-report. She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice so has (pending appeal) clearly breached the first listed of the SRA Code of Conduct principles to "uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice" which is a ground for self-reporting under the Code of Conduct. She won't have done so yet as to do so would prejudice her appeal against the conviction. I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    What reason is there not to attempt to pervert the course of justice with punishments like that?
    Who steals my purse steals trash. Who steals my good name......

    And her good name has probably gone for ever. Political career, legal career etc.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    If a solicitor is convicted of an offence they should self-report. She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice so has (pending appeal) clearly breached the first listed of the SRA Code of Conduct principles to "uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice" which is a ground for self-reporting under the Code of Conduct. She won't have done so yet as to do so would prejudice her appeal against the conviction. I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
    If she had just taken the points. I got my first and only fixed penalty 3 days after starting my training contract - when I called the Law Society (before the SRA took over regulation) practically in tears the guy on the end of the line almost burst out laughing, essentially saying that if they took action against every solicitor with a driving infraction we wouldn't have a legal profession.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,276
    Here's a non-working solicitor who was struck off last November, for badmouthing the SRA, and several offences - drunk driving, drug possession etc. I really can't tell whether for a solicitor's professional position that is more or less serious than offenses of dishonesty on oath.


    A solicitor who embarked on a foul-mouthed email tirade against the Solicitors Regulation Authority, former colleagues and third parties has been banned from the legal profession.

    Luke Stephen Venton, 39, also ran up three separate convictions from 2014 to 2017 for drink-driving, possession of cannabis and possession of a knife in a public place. He was alleged to have failed to notify the SRA about the first two of these convictions. He has not worked as a solicitor since November 2015.

    The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal heard Venton responded to one SRA notification of a fine and rebuke that the regulator could ‘stick your adjudication invoice up you’re [sic] a**e you f*****g w****r’.

    Asked to explain his response and language, he emailed the SRA supervisor and stated: ‘Here’s another one for you, you f*****g bent c**t(s). The SRA will never regulate me and that is it.’ Venton then threatened to bin any future adjudication invoice before signing off: ‘F*****g w****r – f**k off! Regards, Luke.’

    The SRA opted on this occasion to take no further action, but emails continued with the regulator either the main recipient or copied into correspondence with other solicitors and third parties.

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/sweary-solicitor-who-told-the-sra-you-will-never-regulate-me-is-struck-off/5068373.article
  • Getting rid of Black Strafford didn't work out too well for Charles I, as Jeremy Corbyn will no doubt remember.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    edited February 2019
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MattW said:

    Here's a non-working solicitor who was struck off last November, for badmouthing the SRA, and several offences - drunk driving, drug possession etc. I really can't tell whether for a solicitor's professional position that is more or less serious than offenses of dishonesty on oath.


    A solicitor who embarked on a foul-mouthed email tirade against the Solicitors Regulation Authority, former colleagues and third parties has been banned from the legal profession.

    Luke Stephen Venton, 39, also ran up three separate convictions from 2014 to 2017 for drink-driving, possession of cannabis and possession of a knife in a public place. He was alleged to have failed to notify the SRA about the first two of these convictions. He has not worked as a solicitor since November 2015.

    The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal heard Venton responded to one SRA notification of a fine and rebuke that the regulator could ‘stick your adjudication invoice up you’re [sic] a**e you f*****g w****r’.

    Asked to explain his response and language, he emailed the SRA supervisor and stated: ‘Here’s another one for you, you f*****g bent c**t(s). The SRA will never regulate me and that is it.’ Venton then threatened to bin any future adjudication invoice before signing off: ‘F*****g w****r – f**k off! Regards, Luke.’

    The SRA opted on this occasion to take no further action, but emails continued with the regulator either the main recipient or copied into correspondence with other solicitors and third parties.

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/sweary-solicitor-who-told-the-sra-you-will-never-regulate-me-is-struck-off/5068373.article

    Perverting the course of justice is about as serious as it gets for an officer of the court. As I say below, it breaches the first principle of the Code of Conduct to uphold the administration of justice. If this gets to the SDT if/when her appeal is turned down then she's gone.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    edited February 2019
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    If a solicitor is convicted of an offence they should self-report. She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice so has (pending appeal) clearly breached the first listed of the SRA Code of Conduct principles to "uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice" which is a ground for self-reporting under the Code of Conduct. She won't have done so yet as to do so would prejudice her appeal against the conviction. I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
    If she had just taken the points. I got my first and only fixed penalty 3 days after starting my training contract - when I called the Law Society (before the SRA took over regulation) practically in tears the guy on the end of the line almost burst out laughing, essentially saying that if they took action against every solicitor with a driving infraction we wouldn't have a legal profession.
    The General Pharmaceutical Council takes a much tougher line with people who don't tell them about such things than with those who do

    And Fiona Onsanya serves about the same proportion of her sentence behind bars as Chris Huhne and Vicky Price. Two months out of eight..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261

    Getting rid of Black Strafford didn't work out too well for Charles I, as Jeremy Corbyn will no doubt remember.
    You might just be overrating Corbyn's historical expertise ?

    Cambridge educated Yorkshireman, btw.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    If a solicitor is convicted of an offence they should self-report. She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice so has (pending appeal) clearly breached the first listed of the SRA Code of Conduct principles to "uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice" which is a ground for self-reporting under the Code of Conduct. She won't have done so yet as to do so would prejudice her appeal against the conviction. I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
    If she had just taken the points. I got my first and only fixed penalty 3 days after starting my training contract - when I called the Law Society (before the SRA took over regulation) practically in tears the guy on the end of the line almost burst out laughing, essentially saying that if they took action against every solicitor with a driving infraction we wouldn't have a legal profession.
    But the case history was that there had been multiple points sent to that address, each time the driver was named as someone abroad and uncontactable. This time they got lucky and managed to contact the named driver. Therefore, rightly, they decided to act.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261
    nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    Well the next set of opinion polls should demonstrate whether the Corbyn U-turn was successful.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261

    Mr. Observer, we live in extraordinary times.

    Again.

    It's not that long ago we had a financial crisis and the worst recession in British history.


    Records are made to be broken...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261
    MattW said:

    Here's a non-working solicitor who was struck off last November, for badmouthing the SRA, and several offences - drunk driving, drug possession etc. I really can't tell whether for a solicitor's professional position that is more or less serious than offenses of dishonesty on oath.


    A solicitor who embarked on a foul-mouthed email tirade against the Solicitors Regulation Authority, former colleagues and third parties has been banned from the legal profession.

    Luke Stephen Venton, 39, also ran up three separate convictions from 2014 to 2017 for drink-driving, possession of cannabis and possession of a knife in a public place. He was alleged to have failed to notify the SRA about the first two of these convictions. He has not worked as a solicitor since November 2015.

    The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal heard Venton responded to one SRA notification of a fine and rebuke that the regulator could ‘stick your adjudication invoice up you’re [sic] a**e you f*****g w****r’.

    Asked to explain his response and language, he emailed the SRA supervisor and stated: ‘Here’s another one for you, you f*****g bent c**t(s). The SRA will never regulate me and that is it.’ Venton then threatened to bin any future adjudication invoice before signing off: ‘F*****g w****r – f**k off! Regards, Luke.’

    The SRA opted on this occasion to take no further action, but emails continued with the regulator either the main recipient or copied into correspondence with other solicitors and third parties.

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/sweary-solicitor-who-told-the-sra-you-will-never-regulate-me-is-struck-off/5068373.article

    The 'Regards' was a nice touch.
  • Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    Well the next set of opinion polls should demonstrate whether the Corbyn U-turn was successful.
    Not really. It could easily be a short term gain for long term torment as the balance of power shifts and encourages factionalism.
  • Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    Well the next set of opinion polls should demonstrate whether the Corbyn U-turn was successful.
    Not really. It could easily be a short term gain for long term torment as the balance of power shifts and encourages factionalism.
    Yup, or vice versa. We're not quite into the endgame.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    If a solicitor is convicted of an offence they should self-report. She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice so has (pending appeal) clearly breached the first listed of the SRA Code of Conduct principles to "uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice" which is a ground for self-reporting under the Code of Conduct. She won't have done so yet as to do so would prejudice her appeal against the conviction. I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
    If she had just taken the points. I got my first and only fixed penalty 3 days after starting my training contract - when I called the Law Society (before the SRA took over regulation) practically in tears the guy on the end of the line almost burst out laughing, essentially saying that if they took action against every solicitor with a driving infraction we wouldn't have a legal profession.
    But the case history was that there had been multiple points sent to that address, each time the driver was named as someone abroad and uncontactable. This time they got lucky and managed to contact the named driver. Therefore, rightly, they decided to act.
    Wasn't the conviction for perverting the course because she said someone else was driving on a single occasion though? If she had just coughed up to that one fine she would certainly have been in a lot less bother than she ended up in.
  • nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    Absolutely

    Mann is a thickie
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    Of course it is.
    As it was prior to the last election.
    I believe I introduced (or stole) the phrase “‘mile wide and inch deep” to describe the Maymania of that period.

    Both parties have been held in place - like two corpses leaning against each other - by the stasis introduced by Brexit.

    If, for example, Corbyn stood down and was replaced by someone sentient - say, Thornberry, May and the Tories would be crushed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,276
    edited February 2019
    Well, the SRA have a good Twitter service. 8 minute turnaround.

    https://twitter.com/sra_solicitors/status/1100338565073063937
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited February 2019
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    Here's a non-working solicitor who was struck off last November, for badmouthing the SRA, and several offences - drunk driving, drug possession etc. I really can't tell whether for a solicitor's professional position that is more or less serious than offenses of dishonesty on oath.


    A solicitor who embarked on a foul-mouthed email tirade against the Solicitors Regulation Authority, former colleagues and third parties has been banned from the legal profession.

    Luke Stephen Venton, 39, also ran up three separate convictions from 2014 to 2017 for drink-driving, possession of cannabis and possession of a knife in a public place. He was alleged to have failed to notify the SRA about the first two of these convictions. He has not worked as a solicitor since November 2015.

    The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal heard Venton responded to one SRA notification of a fine and rebuke that the regulator could ‘stick your adjudication invoice up you’re [sic] a**e you f*****g w****r’.

    Asked to explain his response and language, he emailed the SRA supervisor and stated: ‘Here’s another one for you, you f*****g bent c**t(s). The SRA will never regulate me and that is it.’ Venton then threatened to bin any future adjudication invoice before signing off: ‘F*****g w****r – f**k off! Regards, Luke.’

    The SRA opted on this occasion to take no further action, but emails continued with the regulator either the main recipient or copied into correspondence with other solicitors and third parties.

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/sweary-solicitor-who-told-the-sra-you-will-never-regulate-me-is-struck-off/5068373.article

    Perverting the course of justice is about as serious as it gets for an officer of the court. As I say below, it breaches the first principle of the Code of Conduct to uphold the administration of justice. If this gets to the SDT if/when her appeal is turned down then she's gone.
    It may have been suggested by a number of people, that the whole reasoning behind her appeal is to try and prevent action being taken by the SRA and a recall ballot in Peterborough.

    Meanwhile, she’s earned £6k while she’s been in prison, hope every journalist she speaks to asks her if she’s donating it to a road safety charity.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MattW said:

    Well, the SRA have a good Twitter service. 8 minute turnaround.

    https://twitter.com/sra_solicitors/status/1100338565073063937

    Hah! I didn't even know they had an account! God, I'm getting old. Nice one.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    TOPPING said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    FPT

    Being a British politician at national level today is less consequential and worse in terms of opportunity cost than at any time in the last 300 years. It’s no surprise that the calibre of MPs and ministers is in decline.

    The problem at the heart of the system of MPs is that the high opportunity cost you mention only applies to one sub-category of would-be politicians.

    Let's take two fantastic candidates:

    Public School + Oxbridge + lawyer = high opportunity cost
    Bog standard comp + technical college or apprenticeship + Union convener = low opportunity cost

    This is false, as there are a lot of public school educated numpties stinking out the benches at Westminster.

    The right equation is:

    Talented, smart person regardless of background = high opportunity cost.

    Absolute dunce who couldn’t start a fire in a firecracker factory = low opportunity cost.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Getting rid of Black Strafford didn't work out too well for Charles I, as Jeremy Corbyn will no doubt remember.
    Maybe as a last resort the Queen needs to step in and dissolve parliament Stuart style! They aren't actually achieving much at present.

    And of course Charles's son eventually pardoned the Earl of Strafford and his property and lands were restored to his heirs - no doubt on condition they were rented out forever more on the 17th century equivalent of air bnb!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
    If she had just taken the points. I got my first and only fixed penalty 3 days after starting my training contract - when I called the Law Society (before the SRA took over regulation) practically in tears the guy on the end of the line almost burst out laughing, essentially saying that if they took action against every solicitor with a driving infraction we wouldn't have a legal profession.
    The General Pharmaceutical Council takes a much tougher line with people who don't tell them about such things than with those who do

    And Fiona Onsanya serves about the same proportion of her sentence behind bars as Chris Huhne and Vicky Price. Two months out of eight..
    There are a number of significant differences - Huhne did, eventually, plead guilty and he resigned his seat. The Dishonourable Member for Peterborough didn't plead guilty, she hasn't resigned and was given a lenient sentence. Whether or not it counted as unduly lenient, there is no doubt in my mind that she got away with a very light sentence given the nature of her crime and her position in society as a solicitor and an elected representative.

    It is intolerable that she is allowed to return to Parliament and vote on weighty matters. We need to change the law so such things are never allowed to happen again.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    Absolutely

    Mann is a thickie
    True and interestingly the amount of Tory voters saying wrong to leave now clearly outweighs Labour voters saying right to leave . Tory wrong to leave 27 versus Labour right to leave 18.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253

    A GE election great for Labour? Run that one by me again.....

    Cos they might win!

    Certainly they can't win one if there isn't one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    matt said:

    Fiona's been sprung.

    Disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya has been released from prison less than four weeks after she was convicted of lying to police over a speeding ticket.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47369669

    If she’s not struck off, the SRA will need to grow a pair.
    For a strike-off they have to prosecute before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. She doesn't hold a practicing certificate at the moment so they may not think it in the public interest to prosecute. I'm not sure what their attitude to prosecution is where the solicitor is listed as no-practicing. If she applies for a new practicing certificate I certainly think they would act at that point, if only to refuse one.
    Have they actually had a cogent complaint?
    If a solicitor is convicted of an offence they should self-report. She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice so has (pending appeal) clearly breached the first listed of the SRA Code of Conduct principles to "uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice" which is a ground for self-reporting under the Code of Conduct. She won't have done so yet as to do so would prejudice her appeal against the conviction. I would imagine the SRA would also wait until the criminal appeal process has concluded before prosecuting before the SDT.
    If she had just taken the points. I got my first and only fixed penalty 3 days after starting my training contract - when I called the Law Society (before the SRA took over regulation) practically in tears the guy on the end of the line almost burst out laughing, essentially saying that if they took action against every solicitor with a driving infraction we wouldn't have a legal profession.
    But the case history was that there had been multiple points sent to that address, each time the driver was named as someone abroad and uncontactable. This time they got lucky and managed to contact the named driver. Therefore, rightly, they decided to act.
    Wasn't the conviction for perverting the course because she said someone else was driving on a single occasion though? If she had just coughed up to that one fine she would certainly have been in a lot less bother than she ended up in.
    Of course, the case concerned one incident only. Because there is only evidence of a single crime.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited February 2019



    There are a number of significant differences - Huhne did, eventually, plead guilty and he resigned his seat. The Dishonourable Member for Peterborough didn't plead guilty, she hasn't resigned and was given a lenient sentence. Whether or not it counted as unduly lenient, there is no doubt in my mind that she got away with a very light sentence given the nature of her crime and her position in society as a solicitor and an elected representative.

    It is intolerable that she is allowed to return to Parliament and vote on weighty matters. We need to change the law so such things are never allowed to happen again.

    It is not our place to determine who is the elected representative of a constituency. That is a matter for the people of Peterborough who can use the recall legislation to force an election or wait until the next general election.

    Were the recall legislation not to exist I could understand your argument but with it in place, there are enough legal means within the law for an MP to be removed should the people the MP represents wish to have a replacement representative.
  • brendan16 said:

    Getting rid of Black Strafford didn't work out too well for Charles I, as Jeremy Corbyn will no doubt remember.
    Maybe as a last resort the Queen needs to step in and dissolve parliament Stuart style! They aren't actually achieving much at present.

    And of course Charles's son eventually pardoned the Earl of Strafford and his property and lands were restored to his heirs - no doubt on condition they were rented out forever more on the 17th century equivalent of air bnb!
    On what constitutional basis do you think the Queen might do that, bearing in mind the provisions of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011?

    Mind you, if we are going to hark back to the 1640s, perhaps we should think of pb as the equivalent of the Putney Debates.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    I would disagree in normal times but the past two years has potentially changed British politics for a long time. Maybe permanently. At a guess I'd say the Tory vote is harder because it's older but...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    kinabalu said:

    A GE election great for Labour? Run that one by me again.....

    Cos they might win!

    Certainly they can't win one if there isn't one.
    Or they might actually get pulverised this time!
  • On topic, yes, but Corbyn has soiled himself in the last few months the same way that Theresa May did during and after her manifesto launch.

    So, it’s unlikely that lightning will strike twice for him again.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    eek said:


    It is not our place to determine who is the elected representative of a constituency. That is a matter for the people of Peterborough who can use the recall legislation to force an election or wait until the next general election.

    I think it is perfectly legitimate to require any MP who is convicted and sentenced to prison to immediately lose their seat.

    Personally I would make that a lifelong ban from holding any elected office - if you break the law (and are sentenced to prison time) whilst being a sitting MP, you have no right to ever sit in Parliament again.

    And yes, I would extend that members of the Lords.

    A conviction prior to standing for Parliament is a different matter - but it must be declared on all relevant election literature.

    We should hold elected representatives to a higher standard. We are never going to have a political cohort free from any blemish - but it is still absolutely wrong that this convicted liar is allowed to sit as MP for any constituency.
  • What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    It’s anti Corbyn and (most of it) is pro Brexit.

    If the former goes and the later fades away, everything is up for grabs, and the Conservatives could also sink to 30%.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    Nigelb said:

    Well the next set of opinion polls should demonstrate whether the Corbyn U-turn was successful.

    Yes. But if this crisis gets resolved without a GE where they are in the polls is no more than quite interesting.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    Of course it is.
    As it was prior to the last election.
    I believe I introduced (or stole) the phrase “‘mile wide and inch deep” to describe the Maymania of that period.

    Both parties have been held in place - like two corpses leaning against each other - by the stasis introduced by Brexit.

    If, for example, Corbyn stood down and was replaced by someone sentient - say, Thornberry, May and the Tories would be crushed.
    In the last GE both Labour and the Tories increased their vote.
  • Scott_P said:

    In both cases, division of the opinion in the party reflected divisions of opinion within the country.

    It wasn’t just to appease the unique peculiarities and idiosyncrasies of the more eccentric members who happened to populate the benches in the Commons at the time.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    But this just can't be true.

    Take Blaenau Gwent. Labour vote share in 2017 was 58 per cent. Tory and UKIP vote share was 17.8 per cent.

    Leave won with 62 per cent of the vote.

    A majority of the Leave vote must have come from parties other than Tory and UKIP.

    There are just not enough Tory/UKIP voters in Blaenau Gwent to make up the enormous Leave vote..
  • What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    It’s anti Corbyn and (most of it) is pro Brexit.

    If the former goes and the later fades away, everything is up for grabs, and the Conservatives could also sink to 30%.
    There's a quarter of the Conservative vote that thinks Leaving is the wrong idea. Losing that by itself would take the Conservatives down to 30%, and that's assuming they kept on board all their Leave supporters with the final form of Brexit.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    eek said:

    Were the recall legislation not to exist I could understand your argument but with it in place, there are enough legal means within the law for an MP to be removed should the people the MP represents wish to have a replacement representative.

    The recall legislation is too weak at present.

    I think it should be a form of strict liability. Prison time for a crime committed whilst a sitting MP results in immediate loss of seat. The 1 year rule for automatic forfeiture of the seat is unacceptable.

    And if there is an appeal, it should be expedited so that Parliament can be rid of an convicted criminal as quickly as possible.

    We need to clean up politics as much as we can. Allowing someone who has perverted the course of justice (whilst also being an officer of the court) to participate in Parliament is a just not acceptable.
  • nico67 said:

    As was the case all along Brexit will only implode if the ERG overplay their hand. I expect a climb down with some warm words from the EU and a thumping speech from the AG Cox providing the suitable ladder .

    Game over for the ERG .

    The ERG won’t climb down. Even if Mogg belatedly (and somewhat reluctantly) wakes up and personally backs the Government there are still those enough in his caucus that’ll ignore him and sink it.

    May needs every single vote. She won’t get them.
  • What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    It’s anti Corbyn and (most of it) is pro Brexit.

    If the former goes and the later fades away, everything is up for grabs, and the Conservatives could also sink to 30%.
    There's a quarter of the Conservative vote that thinks Leaving is the wrong idea. Losing that by itself would take the Conservatives down to 30%, and that's assuming they kept on board all their Leave supporters with the final form of Brexit.
    Yes, there will be churn, but on balance Corbyn going and Brexit failing is very unlikely to be conducive to a good polling position for the Conservatives.
  • felix said:
    So did I. In December they announced that the settlement scheme would apply even in case of a No Deal.

    That said if they have not or if there is some clever ruse to make it problematic then Costa is absolutely right.
  • felix said:

    What we've discovered in the last few days is that a fair chunk of Labour support was very soft. It seems quite likely to me, all things considered, that the same is true of the Conservatives. Perhaps we'll see soon enough.

    Of course it is.
    As it was prior to the last election.
    I believe I introduced (or stole) the phrase “‘mile wide and inch deep” to describe the Maymania of that period.

    Both parties have been held in place - like two corpses leaning against each other - by the stasis introduced by Brexit.

    If, for example, Corbyn stood down and was replaced by someone sentient - say, Thornberry, May and the Tories would be crushed.
    In the last GE both Labour and the Tories increased their vote.
    It would be surprising if either one of them managed that next time around.
  • nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    So Mann should disregard the rest of his constituents?

    Are people who aren't Labour voters unpersons?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261

    nico67 said:

    Labour wrong to leave 74 , right to leave 18.

    Mann and the rest need to stop peddling nonsense . Even in Leave Labour seats a majority of Labour voters voted to Remain .

    But this just can't be true.

    Take Blaenau Gwent. Labour vote share in 2017 was 58 per cent. Tory and UKIP vote share was 17.8 per cent.

    Leave won with 62 per cent of the vote.

    A majority of the Leave vote must have come from parties other than Tory and UKIP.

    There are just not enough Tory/UKIP voters in Blaenau Gwent to make up the enormous Leave vote..
    That is hardly a constituency where a change in Brexit policy is likely to threaten Labour, though.
  • I propose a brand new Labour splinter group:

    Labour Friends of Corbyn :lol:
This discussion has been closed.