If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
No Deal is not a coherent negotiating stance when you cannot get your own Cabinet to back it.
Its like trying to bluff at cards sitting in a hall of mirrors wearing mirrored glasses.
No Deal is not and never was a coherent negotiating strategy. No country would want to No Deal, unless, perhaps, they had around a decade to get ready.
That the majority of Tory supporters prefer a No Deal is alarming.
Most Tory supporters want a trade deal with the EU similar to the one Canada has with the EU but with no backstop which is both in offer from the EU, it is only really UKIP supporters who are straight to No Dealers.
Malik was also a deserving winner - in a pretty uneven film - it was impressive how his relatively slight figure dominated the stage in the same way the beefier Freddie did....
I don't begrudge Malik his win. I said it was Oscar-worthy after I came out the screening. But that is in the context where in recent years, the best actor Oscar has been the preserve of biopic portayals. It has been won by Churchill, Lincoln, Harvey Milk, Ray Charles, Truman Capote, Idi Amin, Stephen Hawking and King George VI.
Where are the strong fictional characters that someone crafts from scratch to dominate the screen with? Where are the likes of Vito Corleone, of Popeye Doyle, of Gordon Gekko, even a Hannibal Lector? I don't want great karaoke performances emulating the original song, note for note - I want someone who gives me a whole new song.
Angry Brexiteers, I expect. Boris has got form for heaving bricks through windows. Or Corbynistas. Or bored kids. Or passing ne'er do wells wanting to break in.
I reckon the local police chief must be married to an estate agent if their advice is to move whenever a window is broken.
The ERG and Corbynistas are two cheeks of the same arse.
Haha. I would have put them all right in the centre of that particular part of the anatomy! It is the only time either group could be described as centrists. I wonder what the collective noun is for a bunch of arseholes?
Actually it would not greatly surprise me if the antisemitic nutters are being stirred up by Russian or even Tory mischief-makers along the lines of the three quidders.
That's a great conspiracy theory.....
Deranged. As required for a good conspiracy theory.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
This is the problem for all fanatics. They believe in win/lose. It is an old fashioned view of the world that has mainly served mankind badly. They don't like the centrist ideals of win/win, and the pragmatic compromises that are required.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Exactly . We’ve been told we’re citizens of nowhere , accused of being traitors , told to just suck it up you lost and now we’re being told apparently that no deal was always what Leave meant .
Leavers want to avoid any responsibility and just use Remainers as a scapegoat , if Brexit is turning into a train wreck it’s because it’s a bad idea to begin with. No amount of polish can turn the Brexit turd into Sunny Uplands !
Malik was also a deserving winner - in a pretty uneven film - it was impressive how his relatively slight figure dominated the stage in the same way the beefier Freddie did....
I don't begrudge Malik his win. I said it was Oscar-worthy after I came out the screening. But that is in the context where in recent years, the best actor Oscar has been the preserve of biopic portayals. It has been won by Churchill, Lincoln, Harvey Milk, Ray Charles, Truman Capote, Idi Amin, Stephen Hawking and King George VI.
Where are the strong fictional characters that someone crafts from scratch to dominate the screen with? Where are the likes of Vito Corleone, of Popeye Doyle, of Gordon Gekko, even a Hannibal Lector? I don't want great karaoke performances emulating the original song, note for note - I want someone who gives me a whole new song.
But that's just me.
I agree, and listening to the fake Coleman affected luvvie acceptance speech was vomit inducing.
Actually it would not greatly surprise me if the antisemitic nutters are being stirred up by Russian or even Tory mischief-makers along the lines of the three quidders.
That's a great conspiracy theory.....
Deranged. As required for a good conspiracy theory.
Tell that to the FBI. It is not a deranged conspiracy theory that Moscow is using social media to advance it's foreign policy agenda of destabilising and polarising the West. Anyone who thinks that is unlikely is quite frankly naïve in extremis. Anyone who thinks that Moscow would invest what it has done in this black art if it didn't think it would work is equally stupid.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Exactly . We’ve been told we’re citizens of nowhere , accused of being traitors , told to just suck it up you lost and now we’re being told apparently that no deal was always what Leave meant .
Leavers want to avoid any responsibility and just use Remainers as a scapegoat , if Brexit is turning into a train wreck it’s because it’s a bad idea to begin with. No amount of polish can turn the Brexit turd into Sunny Uplands !
Brexit isn't turning into a train wreck.The MPe standing obstructing in Parliament aren't Leavers they are Remainers.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
Oddly, the nominal winners of that referendum can't agree among themselves what "respecting the 2016 result" looks like.
Obviously, it isn't crashing out of the EU with no deal. We were all told repeatedly that the deal could be wrapped up in half an afternoon before the referendum.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Remainers have had to remind Brexiters of the fact we live in a parliamentary democracy governed by the rule of law.
Inconvenient for the Brexiters, sure.
As for No Deal, it is not and never was a legitimate negotiating tactic because it’s a transparent bluff.
It has achieved no leverage with the EU, and all that leaving it on the table has done is led the Japanese to de-invest in the country at the cost of 1000s of jobs.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
Oddly, the nominal winners of that referendum can't agree among themselves what "respecting the 2016 result" looks like.
Obviously, it isn't crashing out of the EU with no deal. We were all told repeatedly that the deal could be wrapped up in half an afternoon before the referendum.
It could be if we were prepared to leave without a deal.
They're not real conspiracy theorists; they are Russian trolls.
Controlled by Mossad from the new Israeli moon-base.
Actually it would not greatly surprise me if the antisemitic nutters are being stirred up by Russian or even Tory mischief-makers along the lines of the three quidders. Same with Brexit, mutatis mutandis.
The Lansman interview this morning managed to suggest that joining Labour has been a sensible idea for anyone who would feel nicely at home in Stalin's Russia or 1930s Germany, and that anyone else might find it a trifle odd. It's a bit worrying that there are any apparently sane people left in the party following the testimony of Luciana Berger and others. I hope the Hilary Benns and Yvette Coopers have a cunning plan for the future. Anyone any idea what it might be?
PS Regarding DL Sayers conversation overnight, Nine Tailors is even better than Gaudy Night, though it doesn't help with finding out what a Gaudy is.
Actually it would not greatly surprise me if the antisemitic nutters are being stirred up by Russian or even Tory mischief-makers along the lines of the three quidders.
That's a great conspiracy theory.....
Deranged. As required for a good conspiracy theory.
Tell that to the FBI. It is not a deranged conspiracy theory that Moscow is using social media to advance it's foreign policy agenda of destabilising and polarising the West. Anyone who thinks that is unlikely is quite frankly naïve in extremis. Anyone who thinks that Moscow would invest what it has done in this black art if it didn't think it would work is equally stupid.
It's also an extremely easy get-out for those who refuse to own their problems.
"It was the Russian anti-semites. No home-grown problems here...."
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Exactly . We’ve been told we’re citizens of nowhere , accused of being traitors , told to just suck it up you lost and now we’re being told apparently that no deal was always what Leave meant .
Leavers want to avoid any responsibility and just use Remainers as a scapegoat , if Brexit is turning into a train wreck it’s because it’s a bad idea to begin with. No amount of polish can turn the Brexit turd into Sunny Uplands !
Brexit isn't turning into a train wreck.The MPe standing obstructing in Parliament aren't Leavers they are Remainers.
Comedy gold !
So you’ve ignored the ERG . There’s a big majority for a soft Brexit which is a fair compromise given the 52/48 result .
I've no problems with Remainers refusing to accept the referendum result, that's what all bad losers do. I've seldom had the government of my choice and I'm usually grumpy too. But it's when MPs are emboldened to act against UK negotiators, that the real problems start.
Mr's May is one of our worst ever PMs but she has a good excuse for failure. Her own Parliament are a bunch of squabbling school children. Ask the voters what they think. It might be extreme here in the North, but I suspect it's not much better down South.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
What tripe.
Besides which, the antics of Brexiters during the campaign and subsequently guarantee that “respect” is the last thing they’re likely to get.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
Oddly, the nominal winners of that referendum can't agree among themselves what "respecting the 2016 result" looks like.
Obviously, it isn't crashing out of the EU with no deal. We were all told repeatedly that the deal could be wrapped up in half an afternoon before the referendum.
It could be if we were prepared to leave without a deal.
Off topic - overhead line failure just outside Leeds. My train hasn't moved for 45 minutes and no sign of when it might be sorted. Should have worked from home today!
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Exactly . We’ve been told we’re citizens of nowhere , accused of being traitors , told to just suck it up you lost and now we’re being told apparently that no deal was always what Leave meant .
Leavers want to avoid any responsibility and just use Remainers as a scapegoat , if Brexit is turning into a train wreck it’s because it’s a bad idea to begin with. No amount of polish can turn the Brexit turd into Sunny Uplands !
Brexit isn't turning into a train wreck.The MPe standing obstructing in Parliament aren't Leavers they are Remainers.
Comedy gold !
So you’ve ignored the ERG . There’s a big majority for a soft Brexit which is a fair compromise given the 52/48 result .
I'm not ignoring the ERG. The ERG votes to back a deal on 29/1 unlike the real headbangers like Grieve and the opposition.
Britain’s fine weather is the calm before the storm, the Met Office has warned, with the run-up to Brexit likely to be preceded by strong winds and torrential rain
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
Oddly, the nominal winners of that referendum can't agree among themselves what "respecting the 2016 result" looks like.
Obviously, it isn't crashing out of the EU with no deal. We were all told repeatedly that the deal could be wrapped up in half an afternoon before the referendum.
It could be if we were prepared to leave without a deal.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
'Perpetual servitude' is equal nonsense.
It is that's why we oppose being subjugated to it.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
off the scale.
Yes those Remainer MPs who have rejected every type of deal while claiming to be against no deal are off the scale.
If they're not supposedly trying to ignore the referendum result, they're not backing any deal and they're not backing no deal then what are they doing?
Mr Thompson, your blind loyalty to your cause is almost admirable. You don't think it is a train wreck (or car crash if you prefer?)? You are so deluded by this pointless charade that you still believe it is going well? How bad does it have to get before you think it is maybe not such a good idea? This is charge of the Light Brigade stuff. It makes the invasion of Suez look like a cunning plan. Nothing by way of optimistic outcome has come to pass since 52% of the British electorate were persuaded that this was a jolly good jape that the silly furriners would have to fall into line with; the easiest deal in history etc. It is the biggest foreign policy failure of modern times. "Train wreck" is not a metaphor strong enough for this catastrophe that has been perpetrated on a gullible public
Ranting about “perpetual servitude” while blaming the “Remainers” for everything is casebook paranoia.
It shows why the Tories are heading to the same pass as the Corbynistas, and it is not such a stretch from complaining about “citizens of nowhere” to rather darker mutterings.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
off the scale.
Yes those Remainer MPs who have rejected every type of deal while claiming to be against no deal are off the scale.
If they're not supposedly trying to ignore the referendum result, they're not backing any deal and they're not backing no deal then what are they doing?
They are backing versions of a deal.
If May were to agree permanent CU then she could pass her deal with Labour votes.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
As has been made abundantly clear, there is no deal without the backstop, and claiming that you back something which simply doesn't exist is entirely characteristic of that pair of groupuscles.
As has been pointed out ad nauseam, it is perfectly reasonable to take on trust EU assurances that they have an equal desire to exit the backstop. In the unlikely event that your paranoia proves true, and they are lying, it still remains entirely within the power of the UK to exit the agreement unilaterally - with pretty well the same effect as no deal - but with as much time as we might wish to prepare for it.
A majority of the country did not vote to empower a couple of small groups of fanatics to dictate the terms of Brexit - and even if they had, the EU would not accommodate them.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
What utter balls. Blaming everyone else but themselves has been a constant refrain from leave advocates. The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
The ERG and DUP object to the disgrace and undemocratic backstop idea of perpetual servitude where we are obliged to follow laws and regulations we have no way in shaping. No shock there.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
off the scale.
Yes those Remainer MPs who have rejected every type of deal while claiming to be against no deal are off the scale.
If they're not supposedly trying to ignore the referendum result, they're not backing any deal and they're not backing no deal then what are they doing?
Perhaps they feel they are representing the 48% (now 55%). Or are we supposed to shrivel up and die?
Taking a step back from the May is crap and the UK negotiating team are rubbish, they are using the threat of no deal in getting concessions from the EU. If the Guardian is correct then the EU is talking about a 21 month extension with everything staying the same and us paying our subs. Totally ditching the WDA. This is almost a 180 degree turn around by the EU which before has always been the only deal is the WDA there is nothing else line. I have said that the EU should lock in their trade surplus with us and then lock in political co-operation, looks like they are starting to show that. Clever ERGers.
Britain’s fine weather is the calm before the storm, the Met Office has warned, with the run-up to Brexit likely to be preceded by strong winds and torrential rain
The Met office couldn't even predict that tomorrow will be Tuesday.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Leavers have never sought to make any kind of consensus or reconciliation with Remainers, preferring instead to seek to grind them into the dust. And now they wonder why Remainers are being disobliging.
What exactly do Leavers think that Remainers who have yet to be persuaded of the wisdom of Leave (currently pretty much all of them) should be doing at this stage, bearing in mind that Leavers still have no internal consensus themselves about what Leave should look like?
Respecting the 2016 referendum result. That is what they should be doing.
Oddly, the nominal winners of that referendum can't agree among themselves what "respecting the 2016 result" looks like.
Obviously, it isn't crashing out of the EU with no deal. We were all told repeatedly that the deal could be wrapped up in half an afternoon before the referendum.
It could be if we were prepared to leave without a deal.
BTW Sandy, took a trip on a Pacer last week, from Preston to Cherry Tree. They're certainly an interesting ride, and I'll miss them. Then again, I don't have to travel on them regularly ...
Rail in the north seems in rude health: I took six or seven trains over four days, and none were more than a minute or so late. None were totally overcrowded, and the connections were good. Though I understand this might not be the case for everyone ...
And yes, it's a shame Skipton to Colne isn't still there.
Actually it would not greatly surprise me if the antisemitic nutters are being stirred up by Russian or even Tory mischief-makers along the lines of the three quidders.
That's a great conspiracy theory.....
Deranged. As required for a good conspiracy theory.
Tell that to the FBI. It is not a deranged conspiracy theory that Moscow is using social media to advance it's foreign policy agenda of destabilising and polarising the West. Anyone who thinks that is unlikely is quite frankly naïve in extremis. Anyone who thinks that Moscow would invest what it has done in this black art if it didn't think it would work is equally stupid.
It's also an extremely easy get-out for those who refuse to own their problems.
"It was the Russian anti-semites. No home-grown problems here...."
Yeah, right.
No, not Russian antisemites but Russian agents provocateurs stirring up home-grown hate, whether Brexit or antisemitism. It's what they do. The cop out is to imagine Russia only interferes with excitable foreigners like Trump or the Italians (as was revealed just a couple of days ago) and not our robust British democracy.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
Breakfast time, David, you need some calories in you.
For all Theresa May's undoubted failings, only a complete moron would even contemplate inflicting or allowing no deal on their country. OK for disappointingly idiotic PB-ers to fantasise about it, but not if you are PM or in any way connected to government.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
I see the Stab in the Back myth is being written already. Good to see that on this at least the Leavers have a coherent strategy.
Taking a step back from the May is crap and the UK negotiating team are rubbish, they are using the threat of no deal in getting concessions from the EU. If the Guardian is correct then the EU is talking about a 21 month extension with everything staying the same and us paying our subs. Totally ditching the WDA. This is almost a 180 degree turn around by the EU which before has always been the only deal is the WDA there is nothing else line. I have said that the EU should lock in their trade surplus with us and then lock in political co-operation, looks like they are starting to show that. Clever ERGers.
Yes. They planned this. Obviously. It's not a case of them arsing around and not agreeing to any deal if the EU are involved. It's a cunning plan to stay in the EU for nearly two extra years because reasons. Phew. I was worried there for a bit.
If I were negotiating on behalf of the EU. I would feel no compulsion whatsoever to move on the backstop or anything. We're in a strong position with the UK Parliament on our side. Why would I give on anything? They will veto a no-deal themselves.
Even better, they'll beg for a delay, the very thing we want if (and we do) we'd prefer them to stay in an eventual humiliating climb-down.
Even the fanatical Remainers realise this but they don't care, and for the MPs, it shows the voters who's in charge. When even sensible Remainers, such as Mr Meeks was once, liken voting for an option in a democratic referendum to a death cult such as ISIS, we know all their critical faculties have been scrambled.
They need pity, I suppose, rather than condemnation, but it's a sad indictment on British democracy. Maybe it isn't such a loss after all. The Chelsea of politics.
Indeed. Throughout the process the remainer majority has sought to undermine the UK position with the objective of leaving the UK with no viable option but to remain. The next stage is to remove no deal from the table completely. After all, that removal is bound to help May get any changes she is asking for to the backstop isn't it? All sensible people go into negotiations with the possibility of saying anything other than yes removed, stands to reason.
I see the Stab in the Back myth is being written already. Good to see that on this at least the Leavers have a coherent strategy.
For some Leavers (not all, and not even a majority, but definitely some) the objective is not to achieve, it is to blame the EU for absolutely everything, everywhere, everytime. No sparrow falls nor flower rot but at the hand of Teh Evil EUSSR. It's cheap, quick and emotionally satisfying. Why achieve something when failing and blaming is just as good and requires less effort?
Off topic - overhead line failure just outside Leeds. My train hasn't moved for 45 minutes and no sign of when it might be sorted. Should have worked from home today!
Comments
Where are the strong fictional characters that someone crafts from scratch to dominate the screen with? Where are the likes of Vito Corleone, of Popeye Doyle, of Gordon Gekko, even a Hannibal Lector? I don't want great karaoke performances emulating the original song, note for note - I want someone who gives me a whole new song.
But that's just me.
Deranged. As required for a good conspiracy theory.
Leavers want to avoid any responsibility and just use Remainers as a scapegoat , if Brexit is turning into a train wreck it’s because it’s a bad idea to begin with. No amount of polish can turn the Brexit turd into Sunny Uplands !
Obviously, it isn't crashing out of the EU with no deal. We were all told repeatedly that the deal could be wrapped up in half an afternoon before the referendum.
The two biggest obstacles to a successful outcome for the leave project have been the efforts of the ERG and the DUP minority groupings in parliament to block anything May has been able to come up with, and the incompetence of the leavers in the cabinet.
Inconvenient for the Brexiters, sure.
As for No Deal, it is not and never was a legitimate negotiating tactic because it’s a transparent bluff.
It has achieved no leverage with the EU, and all that leaving it on the table has done is led the Japanese to de-invest in the country at the cost of 1000s of jobs.
PS Regarding DL Sayers conversation overnight, Nine Tailors is even better than Gaudy Night, though it doesn't help with finding out what a Gaudy is.
"It was the Russian anti-semites. No home-grown problems here...."
Yeah, right.
So you’ve ignored the ERG . There’s a big majority for a soft Brexit which is a fair compromise given the 52/48 result .
Mr's May is one of our worst ever PMs but she has a good excuse for failure. Her own Parliament are a bunch of squabbling school children. Ask the voters what they think. It might be extreme here in the North, but I suspect it's not much better down South.
Remove the backstop and the ERG and DUP have voted to back the rest of the deal. The real extremists are the likes of Grieve and the opposition MPs playing party politics who oppose the deal with or without a backstop.
Besides which, the antics of Brexiters during the campaign and subsequently guarantee that “respect” is the last thing they’re likely to get.
If they're not supposedly trying to ignore the referendum result, they're not backing any deal and they're not backing no deal then what are they doing?
It shows why the Tories are heading to the same pass as the Corbynistas, and it is not such a stretch from complaining about “citizens of nowhere” to rather darker mutterings.
If May were to agree permanent CU then she could pass her deal with Labour votes.
Perfect metaphor for Brexit. I wonder if May has seen it and what she thought of the lesbian sex scenes.
As has been pointed out ad nauseam, it is perfectly reasonable to take on trust EU assurances that they have an equal desire to exit the backstop.
In the unlikely event that your paranoia proves true, and they are lying, it still remains entirely within the power of the UK to exit the agreement unilaterally - with pretty well the same effect as no deal - but with as much time as we might wish to prepare for it.
A majority of the country did not vote to empower a couple of small groups of fanatics to dictate the terms of Brexit - and even if they had, the EU would not accommodate them.
If the Guardian is correct then the EU is talking about a 21 month extension with everything staying the same and us paying our subs. Totally ditching the WDA.
This is almost a 180 degree turn around by the EU which before has always been the only deal is the WDA there is nothing else line.
I have said that the EU should lock in their trade surplus with us and then lock in political co-operation, looks like they are starting to show that.
Clever ERGers.
Rail in the north seems in rude health: I took six or seven trains over four days, and none were more than a minute or so late. None were totally overcrowded, and the connections were good. Though I understand this might not be the case for everyone ...
And yes, it's a shame Skipton to Colne isn't still there.
Least, I hope not....
For all Theresa May's undoubted failings, only a complete moron would even contemplate inflicting or allowing no deal on their country. OK for disappointingly idiotic PB-ers to fantasise about it, but not if you are PM or in any way connected to government.