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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bernie Sanders, 77, decides to take the plunge and moves to th

SystemSystem Posts: 12,172
edited February 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bernie Sanders, 77, decides to take the plunge and moves to third in the nomination betting

I must admit that I cannot see either 76 year old Joe Biden or 77 Bernie winning the nomination in eighteen months time. The former has yet to decide while Bernie, who ran Hillary close at WH2016, announced today that he’s going for it.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    First. Probably unlike the Bern.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    Bern baby Bern.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Can't help thinking that you can't really say this kind of thing in public if you haven't already made up your mind to go.
    Not quite the same thing, but didn't Gove and some other Cabinet Members say similar 'thinking about it' or 'no comment' kind of things when speculation was rife they were going to resign.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    _Anazina_ said:

    nico67 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    DeClare said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    ITV reports the IS bride is to be stripped of her British nationality

    Good!
    That eless.
    I don't think it depends. She chose to fight against her own country and has no regrets about it.
    The 'dim.
    Anyone know what would have happened to a woman who ran away to Germany in 1938 because she admired Hitler.
    Married an SS man who was employed at say Treblinka came back to Britain with a baby after her husband had been captured in 1945.
    Said in an interview that she still thought that the Nazis were right and that their victims deserved it?
    (I know that any Briton who actually took part in the Holocaust would have probably been hanged but what about the wives of such people?)
    Well quite. She is a British citizen so should be tried (and punished, if convicted) here - the rest is utter reactionary tabloid crap. I’m saddened that so many on PB seem to think it right.
    Not just PB,the majority in the country if you go by comments and probably polls.
    Trial by the mob.

    To my point.
    Exactly . It’s not for the public to force actions outside of the law . If Javid is acting within the law that’s fine but if he’s trying to ingratiate himself to the Tory party membership by acting outside of that then that is completely unacceptable.
    Even if it is within the law, it’s wrong. If she only had single citizenship (a la Ian Brady etc) we would have to handle the case here, quite rightly. Javid is a disgrace. Just playing to the gallery I’m afraid.
    I think it is going a bit far to call it a disgrace if it is a power that has been exercised in such a manner for nearly 4 decades - if it was so much a disgrace to have the power I'd think at least one government in that time would have gotten rid of it.

    Whether it was appropriate in the circumstances or not is a different, more complicated question, and given that complexity I don't think it fair to call the decision a disgrace, nor to call a disgrace anyone taking an alternate view.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    That Sky poll is pure voodoo I guess?

    Calling a poll voodoo is a very serious charge on here. People have been banned for less :o
    Would hoodoo be acceptable?
  • FPT:
    IanB2 said:

    I don’t see that much evidence that ‘Blairism’ is that much in demand amongst the public.

    Faced with the ERG and the Corbynistas, some calm rational and competent politics is very much in demand. Just so long as you don't attach Blair's name to it.
    I don’t think it’s just Blair’s name that’s the problem. There quite a few beliefs among those who themselves centrists - e.g. support for academies and free schools, or foreign interventionism - that don’t seem to be that much popular among the public.
  • FPT

    TIGs can only get better?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited February 2019
    Goodbye many other defectors
    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not sure how you Baxter that, but it must be carnage for Labour?
    Baxter has a Labour Split option; putting TIG votes in there gives:
    Con 317
    Lab 208
    SNP 50
    LD 27
    TIG 26

    ... which does seem optimistic for the Tiggers to me.
    Flavible calculates a bit differently.

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1097925600000520192?s=19
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.
  • It would be easier to list those that aren’t standing for POTUS...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Jonathan said:

    Bern baby Bern.

    It's Beto's turn, though!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    kle4 said:

    Goodbye many other defectors

    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not sure how you Baxter that, but it must be carnage for Labour?
    Baxter has a Labour Split option; putting TIG votes in there gives:
    Con 317
    Lab 208
    SNP 50
    LD 27
    TIG 26

    ... which does seem optimistic for the Tiggers to me.
    Flavible calculates a bit differently.

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1097925600000520192?s=19
    NCP? Isn’t that the car park company? :p
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.
  • Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    That Sky poll is pure voodoo I guess?

    Calling a poll voodoo is a very serious charge on here. People have been banned for less :o
    Would hoodoo be acceptable?
    Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw wot moved to Haiti?

    He became a Voodoo Pole!

    (I thank you!)
  • Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited February 2019
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Goodbye many other defectors

    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not sure how you Baxter that, but it must be carnage for Labour?
    Baxter has a Labour Split option; putting TIG votes in there gives:
    Con 317
    Lab 208
    SNP 50
    LD 27
    TIG 26

    ... which does seem optimistic for the Tiggers to me.
    Flavible calculates a bit differently.

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1097925600000520192?s=19
    NCP? Isn’t that the car park company? :p
    No, Number Cruncher Politics.
  • Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Goodbye many other defectors

    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not sure how you Baxter that, but it must be carnage for Labour?
    Baxter has a Labour Split option; putting TIG votes in there gives:
    Con 317
    Lab 208
    SNP 50
    LD 27
    TIG 26

    ... which does seem optimistic for the Tiggers to me.
    Flavible calculates a bit differently.

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1097925600000520192?s=19
    NCP? Isn’t that the car park company? :p
    My head says "New Centrist Party", but my heart is firmly set on "Nice but Counter Productive".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited February 2019

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    Compare Javid to the leader of the opposition who helped get an Isis fund raiser out of jail....for
    Christmas!
  • AndyJS said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
    I agree, it’ll be popular. But my Tory base comment was more in reference to his leadership ambitions. But as I said, given that he’s a Ayn Rand guy he’s probably quite right wing anyway.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    No
    Corbyn
    Party
  • MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    So she can mooch off our benefits system and live a life of luxury whilst showing absolutely no remorse for her actions and being a danger to the public. She's an actual traitor and the fact that we have a way to ensure she can't return it needs to be used.

    Hopefully Javid gives Trump permission to accidentally dump all the British jihadis caught by our allies in the ocean on the way back.

    There is nothing to be gained by letting any of them back in the country. These are people who pushed gay people off buildings, stoned women to death and sold thousands of women and girls into a life of sexual slavery. There is no redemption. They do not deserve a chance of it.

    I'm honestly surprised that so many on the left are getting upset about this.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    kle4 said:


    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.


    They've been doing this for something like 12-15 years with Isis/Al Qaeda "volunteers", whenever it's possible because of dual citizenship. I don't know how many, but it's certainly in the many dozens.
  • Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    She also has Bangladeshi citizenship.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    kle4 said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
    Indeed. Next time he's abroad revoke Piers Morgan's citizenship. That should be worth a percent or two.
  • Freggles said:

    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).

    Chrome, via the vanilla forums.
  • kle4 said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
    That’s what worries me about this - once the precedent is set, how will it be used in the future? It’s better for her to come back here and for her to be in HM Prison under our watch then establish this precedent.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    kle4 said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
    Any crimes she committed were in Iraq or Syria. I'm entirely happy for her to face justice in their courts.
  • Andrew said:

    kle4 said:


    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.


    They've been doing this for something like 12-15 years with Isis/Al Qaeda "volunteers", whenever it's possible because of dual citizenship. I don't know how many, but it's certainly in the many dozens.
    Over 100 according to the BBC...
  • The Sky poll isn't a voodoo poll, it is a proper poll by a pollster that is a BPC member.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).

    Chrome, via the vanilla forums.
    Yes, the login seems to be sticking. Many thanks.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    As far as Dianne Abbott's potential powers over who is and isn't a UK citizen go, I'm vastly more concerned about the former than the latter.
  • The Sky poll isn't a voodoo poll, it is a proper poll by a pollster that is a BPC member.

    Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw wot moved to Yorkshire?

    He became a Proper Pole!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Owen Smith High
    Peter Kyle High
    Ian Murray High
    Ruth Smeeth Medium
    Alison McGovern Medium
    Ian Austin Medium
    Siobhain McDonagh Medium
    Joan Ryan Low
    Liz Kendall Low
    Stephen Kinnock Low
    Siobhain McDonagh Low
    Wes Streeting Low
    Neil Coyle Low
    Stephen Twigg Low
    Emma Reynolds Low
    Toby Perkins Low
    Ben Bradshaw Low

    According to Guido.

    I reckon Kyle Hodge Murray Austin Ryan are more or less certain to go

    I think Smith Kendall Bradshaw Perkins will stay.
  • Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    We have better things to spend the authorities money on than looking after this evil woman for the rest of her life. She made her choice freely, good riddance and goodbye.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    The Sky poll isn't a voodoo poll, it is a proper poll by a pollster that is a BPC member.

    They do only poll Sky customers though, so it might not be fully representative.
  • I have to say, I thought Liverpool would be playing better than this vs Bayern.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
    That’s what worries me about this - once the precedent is set, how will it be used in the future? It’s better for her to come back here and for her to be in HM Prison under our watch then establish this precedent.
    Except it is not setting a precedent if this power has been in existence for decades, it is not establishing the power in anyway it already exists. Any precedents already exist, and it seems to be something decided on a case by case basis.

    It doesn't make me less wary, or thinking it should be bandied about easily or indiscriminately, but I do think the idea the fact of the power is a disgrace or even that the decision in this case is a disgrace does not hold up since it must have happened before many times and I don't recall this level of outrage.

    But it seems entirely unfair to suggest anyone disagreeing with the decision is supportive of terrorists.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    I have to say, I thought Liverpool would be playing better than this vs Bayern.

    They've been a bit off since the beginning of January to be honest, even if in the league it has only seen a few chokes and no losses but to City. They seem to have lost a bit of their edge in front of goal, and their defence has reverted to the nervous, jumpy defence of the last few seasons.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it. If that is the case, it means millions are potentially affected by this.

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).

    Chrome, via the vanilla forums.
    Yes, the login seems to be sticking. Many thanks.
    It's a cookie settings thing. By default, Apple's browsers prevent third-party code (e.g. Vanilla) embedded on other sites (politicalbetting.com) from setting cookies. If you go straight to Vanilla then the issue doesn't arise.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).

    Chrome, via the vanilla forums.
    Yes, the login seems to be sticking. Many thanks.
    Chrome works via the main site for me too.
    Using Vanilla forums is just weird.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I don't

    Probably the most popular decision a politician has made in many a year.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    A separate angle on Miss ISIS 2019: given that we would probably have to have taken her child away from her on arrival (to prevent her radicalising him), is the child better off being with his mother in Bangladesh (or wherever), or in care in the UK? Should this be/have been a consideration in the decision whether to revoke her nationality? Was she aware that this would probably have been a precondition were she to have been allowed back?
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it. If that is the case, it means millions are potentially affected by this.

    Except it is not setting a precedent, as kle4 just said.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Freggles said:

    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).

    Chrome, via the vanilla forums.
    I use my iPad regularly to post here. It's an up and down experience. Sometimes (for days af a time) everything works fine with Chrome and the normal website. Sometimes (for days at a time) I repetedly get logged out and the only way to log back in is to reset my password. At other times the comments don't show and I have to go into Vanilla Forums to contribute.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    kle4 said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
    That’s what worries me about this - once the precedent is set, how will it be used in the future? It’s better for her to come back here and for her to be in HM Prison under our watch then establish this precedent.

    kle4 said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    I'm fine with her facing the authorities somewhere else. But I do hope that the power Home Secretaries have has some very set criteria that have been developed over the years to ensure it is not an easy decision to get positive headlines.

    And I imagine it will be very popular. That doesn't automatically make a decision right, but I very much doubt only Tories will approve.
    That’s what worries me about this - once the precedent is set, how will it be used in the future? It’s better for her to come back here and for her to be in HM Prison under our watch then establish this precedent.
    The precedent was set long ago. If it's lawful to leave her in Syria, we should do so.
  • kle4 said:

    I have to say, I thought Liverpool would be playing better than this vs Bayern.

    They've been a bit off since the beginning of January to be honest, even if in the league it has only seen a few chokes and no losses but to City. They seem to have lost a bit of their edge in front of goal, and their defence has reverted to the nervous, jumpy defence of the last few seasons.
    True, they kept on drawing vs teams they’ve should have won against. I really did think in December they’d win the league but now I think it’s likely City will do it. Bayern have been poor in the Bundesliga this season and aren’t what they were so I thought Liverpool would do better against them.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    roughly two thirds of the country are the tory base?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it. If that is the case, it means millions are potentially affected by this.

    Except it is not setting a precedent, as kle4 just said.

    I admire your faith in politicians. I am not sure recent experience justifies it, but there you go.

  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it. If that is the case, it means millions are potentially affected by this.

    It’s also the first time I’ve heard of this power as well. I didn’t know it had been used before. Wow....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    Forgot Corbyn, Brexit and other nasty politics. Watch this, switch off a five the one you love a hug.

    https://twitter.com/disneypixar/status/1096061508017156096?s=21
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    I have to say, I thought Liverpool would be playing better than this vs Bayern.

    They've been a bit off since the beginning of January to be honest, even if in the league it has only seen a few chokes and no losses but to City. They seem to have lost a bit of their edge in front of goal, and their defence has reverted to the nervous, jumpy defence of the last few seasons.
    True, they kept on drawing vs teams they’ve should have won against. I really did think in December they’d win the league but now I think it’s likely City will do it. Bayern have been poor in the Bundesliga this season and aren’t what they were so I thought Liverpool would do better against them.
    Even though Liverpool have only lost one, and City four, when you see City play they look so much better than anyone else. Liverpool really are reliant on them having another few off days while they scrape through despite being technically worse, a bit like Leicester to Tottenham a few years back.
  • Floater said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    roughly two thirds of the country are the tory base?

    See my comments after that post.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Owen Smith High
    Peter Kyle High
    Ian Murray High
    Ruth Smeeth Medium
    Alison McGovern Medium
    Ian Austin Medium
    Siobhain McDonagh Medium
    Joan Ryan Low
    Liz Kendall Low
    Stephen Kinnock Low
    Siobhain McDonagh Low
    Wes Streeting Low
    Neil Coyle Low
    Stephen Twigg Low
    Emma Reynolds Low
    Toby Perkins Low
    Ben Bradshaw Low

    According to Guido.

    I reckon Kyle Hodge Murray Austin Ryan are more or less certain to go

    I think Smith Kendall Bradshaw Perkins will stay.

    Owen Smith can't possibly be in the mix. They'd have to turn him away.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    kle4 said:

    I think it is going a bit far to call it a disgrace if it is a power that has been exercised in such a manner for nearly 4 decades - if it was so much a disgrace to have the power I'd think at least one government in that time would have gotten rid of it.

    Whether it was appropriate in the circumstances or not is a different, more complicated question, and given that complexity I don't think it fair to call the decision a disgrace, nor to call a disgrace anyone taking an alternate view.

    ICBW but I thought the power to strip British citizenship so long as doing so does not cause statelessness was first enacted in 2006. Previously, up until the early 20th century it was taken as an axiom of customary international law that a woman marrying a man of another nationality automatically gained his citizenship and lost her birth citizenship on marriage, but with women’s emancipation this has long fallen into desuetude.

    BTW, any British citizen born in Northern Ireland or with a parent born anywhere in Ireland is automatically[1] a citizen of the Republic of Ireland and so could be deprived of their British citizenship by fiat of the Home Secretary.

    [1] Irish nationality law changed in the early 2000s tor abolish automatic jus soli if neither parent was lawfully resident in Ireland, but it’s unlikely very many people born in Ireland without Irish citizenship have had children yet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    FPT:

    IanB2 said:

    I don’t see that much evidence that ‘Blairism’ is that much in demand amongst the public.

    Faced with the ERG and the Corbynistas, some calm rational and competent politics is very much in demand. Just so long as you don't attach Blair's name to it.
    I don’t think it’s just Blair’s name that’s the problem. There quite a few beliefs among those who themselves centrists - e.g. support for academies and free schools, or foreign interventionism - that don’t seem to be that much popular among the public.
    You seem to have forgotten that the LibDems were almost alone in opposing Iraq. And foreign intervention is out of fashion, now, and won't be an issue with the diminished status we are heading for. Is anyone proposing actually to abolish academy or free schools?
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    IanB2 said:

    Freggles said:

    I've asked this before but don't remember getting an answer, apols if I'm mistaken.

    Is anyone able to post on here via iPad and if so, which browser do you use? I can browse but can't seem to post properly (currently on desktop).

    Chrome, via the vanilla forums.
    I use my iPad regularly to post here. It's an up and down experience. Sometimes (for days af a time) everything works fine with Chrome and the normal website. Sometimes (for days at a time) I repetedly get logged out and the only way to log back in is to reset my password. At other times the comments don't show and I have to go into Vanilla Forums to contribute.
    Strange. I use iPad and Chrome on the normal website. I have never experienced such problems.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Oh right, Sanders.

    Yesterday's man.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    IanB2 said:

    I don’t see that much evidence that ‘Blairism’ is that much in demand amongst the public.

    Faced with the ERG and the Corbynistas, some calm rational and competent politics is very much in demand. Just so long as you don't attach Blair's name to it.
    I don’t think it’s just Blair’s name that’s the problem. There quite a few beliefs among those who themselves centrists - e.g. support for academies and free schools, or foreign interventionism - that don’t seem to be that much popular among the public.
    You seem to have forgotten that the LibDems were almost alone in opposing Iraq. And foreign intervention is out of fashion, now, and won't be an issue with the diminished status we are heading for. Is anyone proposing actually to abolish academy or free schools?
    Corbyn McDonnell Cook Ken Clarke
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Omnium said:

    Owen Smith High
    Peter Kyle High
    Ian Murray High
    Ruth Smeeth Medium
    Alison McGovern Medium
    Ian Austin Medium
    Siobhain McDonagh Medium
    Joan Ryan Low
    Liz Kendall Low
    Stephen Kinnock Low
    Siobhain McDonagh Low
    Wes Streeting Low
    Neil Coyle Low
    Stephen Twigg Low
    Emma Reynolds Low
    Toby Perkins Low
    Ben Bradshaw Low

    According to Guido.

    I reckon Kyle Hodge Murray Austin Ryan are more or less certain to go

    I think Smith Kendall Bradshaw Perkins will stay.

    Owen Smith can't possibly be in the mix. They'd have to turn him away.
    Streeting has tied himself to Labour - career before principle, despite his stand against anti-semitism - and he won't jump until it is obvious Labour is sinking.

    Kendall would be wise to think seriously about jumping early - she is one of the few that could claim leadership of the whole thing.
  • kle4 said:

    Oh right, Sanders.

    Yesterday's man.

    Peak Corbyn has passed.

    It isn't 2016 anymore.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Owen Smith High
    Peter Kyle High
    Ian Murray High
    Ruth Smeeth Medium
    Alison McGovern Medium
    Ian Austin Medium
    Siobhain McDonagh Medium
    Joan Ryan Low
    Liz Kendall Low
    Stephen Kinnock Low
    Siobhain McDonagh Low
    Wes Streeting Low
    Neil Coyle Low
    Stephen Twigg Low
    Emma Reynolds Low
    Toby Perkins Low
    Ben Bradshaw Low

    According to Guido.

    I reckon Kyle Hodge Murray Austin Ryan are more or less certain to go

    I think Smith Kendall Bradshaw Perkins will stay.

    Short of publicly announcing that you have been roaming the streets to kill blacks (vide Liam Neeson), joining TIG is the next best guaranteed way to end your career.

    The careerists like Owen Smith & Stephen Kinnock will all stay. They are just putting down markers for a few years time, when the pendulum swings back (as it always does).

    The only people who will go are (i) those who are likely to lose their seats anyhow because they will be deselected or because their majority is very slender, (ii) those who were planning to retire anyhow and (iii) those who mistakenly believe they are charismatic and have a huge personal vote.

    My guess is all of the 7 Tiggers will lose their seats. If they really thought they would retain them, they would fight by-elections now.

    It is telling that the UKIP defectors, Reckless and Carswell, correctly resigned and fought by elections.

    Who would have thought we would live to see the day that Reckless has more credibility than Chuka & Co.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

    But if the Syrian Govt said we want her to face justice for being a member of ISIS in our courts, then the lefties would be up in outrage about nasty Assad, no human rights in prison, etc.
  • Jonathan said:

    Forgot Corbyn, Brexit and other nasty politics. Watch this, switch off a five the one you love a hug.

    https://twitter.com/disneypixar/status/1096061508017156096?s=21

    I'm cuddling my baby daughter.

    Bliss.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    IanB2 said:

    I don’t see that much evidence that ‘Blairism’ is that much in demand amongst the public.

    Faced with the ERG and the Corbynistas, some calm rational and competent politics is very much in demand. Just so long as you don't attach Blair's name to it.
    I don’t think it’s just Blair’s name that’s the problem. There quite a few beliefs among those who themselves centrists - e.g. support for academies and free schools, or foreign interventionism - that don’t seem to be that much popular among the public.
    You seem to have forgotten that the LibDems were almost alone in opposing Iraq. And foreign intervention is out of fashion, now, and won't be an issue with the diminished status we are heading for. Is anyone proposing actually to abolish academy or free schools?
    Corbyn McDonnell Cook Ken Clarke
    Of course, there were rebels. Only the LibDems (and some other smaller parties) opposed Iraq en masse. The OP may have had a point in associating moderate Labourism with Iraq (although very many Iraq-supporters remain within Labour) but was wrong to try and tie this to centrism. Not least because the Tories were almost all cheerleaders.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    kle4 said:

    Oh right, Sanders.

    Yesterday's man.

    I quite like his new Chicken coating
  • IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    IanB2 said:

    I don’t see that much evidence that ‘Blairism’ is that much in demand amongst the public.

    Faced with the ERG and the Corbynistas, some calm rational and competent politics is very much in demand. Just so long as you don't attach Blair's name to it.
    I don’t think it’s just Blair’s name that’s the problem. There quite a few beliefs among those who themselves centrists - e.g. support for academies and free schools, or foreign interventionism - that don’t seem to be that much popular among the public.
    You seem to have forgotten that the LibDems were almost alone in opposing Iraq. And foreign intervention is out of fashion, now, and won't be an issue with the diminished status we are heading for. Is anyone proposing actually to abolish academy or free schools?
    My point was, what many self declared centrists see as ‘sensible’ and ‘rational’ are not neccessarily what the public see as those things. I used foreign interventionism and education policy as examples.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

    But if the Syrian Govt said we want her to face justice for being a member of ISIS in our courts, then the lefties would be up in outrage about nasty Assad, no human rights in prison, etc.

    So what?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,621
    AndyJS said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
    And if they were honest, the other 30-40% wouldn't want her as a neighbour......
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MaxPB said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    Surprised to see you defending an IS member.
    I want her to come back here and face British authorities.
    So she can mooch off our benefits system and live a life of luxury whilst showing absolutely no remorse for her actions and being a danger to the public. She's an actual traitor and the fact that we have a way to ensure she can't return it needs to be used.

    Hopefully Javid gives Trump permission to accidentally dump all the British jihadis caught by our allies in the ocean on the way back.

    There is nothing to be gained by letting any of them back in the country. These are people who pushed gay people off buildings, stoned women to death and sold thousands of women and girls into a life of sexual slavery. There is no redemption. They do not deserve a chance of it.

    I'm honestly surprised that so many on the left are getting upset about this.
    I'm not surprised at all. The New Left is obsessed with the culpability of the West (and especially the US, UK and Israel) for all the evils of the world, and with the manifest righteousness of all the most uncompromising and extreme anti-Western Islamists, on the basis that my enemy's enemy is my friend.

    It's why they love Hamas, Hezbollah and the Iranian theocracy so very, very much. I doubt whether one in ten of them give a flying wotsit about gay people being strung up from cranes or thrown off tall buildings, and those who do don't like talking about it very much since (a) a few dead gays is irrelevant compared to the fight to destroy liberal democracy, and (b) it prompts the inevitable reminder that their sainted leader was more than happy to pocket the Ayatollahs' blood money to present a chat show on their propaganda mouthpiece (a TV station so crooked that it was banned from the airwaves by Ofcom, a fate avoided even by Russia Today.)

    Thank you for posting this remark. Whilst it is frustrating that one has no power to influence the situation, it probably does no harm to be reminded of why the contemporary Labour Party is toxic radioactive filth and why we should, therefore, fervently hope that it never manages to lay a hand on the levers of power again.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

    No, she made herself.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

    I hope you're not suggesting her Muslim upbringing has anything to do with all this.
  • AndyJS said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
    And if they were honest, the other 30-40% wouldn't want her as a neighbour......

    I have no time for Begum whatsoever, but if you give politicians the right to take away citizenship do not imagine they will always use it in ways you agree with.
  • AndyJS said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
    And if they were honest, the other 30-40% wouldn't want her as a neighbour......

    I have no time for Begum whatsoever, but if you give politicians the right to take away citizenship do not imagine they will always use it in ways you agree with.
    +1.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Right Q is what the ERG are playing at.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

    She was clearly made in London.

    We have to listen to endless trumpeting on pb about how much we are all indebted to London and its many wonders.

    We have had lectures from preening Londoners about how Londoners are not born, but are made. They are made strong and bold in the glistening furnace of London.

    So, send some Londoners to risk their lives getting her out, and when she is returned, confine her to London.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    EU sources expressed frustration that they were having to “re-educate” Cox, who is new to the talks, about the lack of realism in the central demands made by May.

    That irritation has been shared in Berlin. Michael Roth, Germany’s minister for Europe, said new “realistic suggestions” were needed from Downing Street to allow the negotiations to progress.

    “There is no point in abstractly demanding changes or to make demands, which are completely unacceptable for us,” Roth said. “There can be no limit to the backstop, there can’t be an automatic expiration of the backstop.

    “Right now I do not see the necessary willingness to budge on the part of the British and this doesn’t make things easier because time is running out.”

    EU sources said Barnier and his deputy, Sabine Weyand, had been “forensic” in their dismantling of the Malthouse compromise on Monday. Barnier told Barclay that suspending EU law on the border was not a viable solution to the problem. Weyand later privately lamented that the EU was having to repeat arguments to Cox first made in August 2017.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Too old. Somebody should have a word.

    Somebody should also have a word with the increasingly risible Sajid Javed.

    Lol, look at all of you defending the terrorists. It's bloody brilliant that she can't come back to this country. Javid has played a blinder here.

    Why is it defending terrorists to believe a politician should not have the right to revoke someone’s British citizenship? If you’re fine with Dianne Abbott or another far left Labour Home Secretary potentially having the power to revoke the UK citizenship of people they consider dangerous, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.‬
    I'm not surprised people are wary of a politician having this power, however awful the person it is used on. I'm surprised that you are acting like this is the first you have heard of this power.

    It is and I’m genuinely shocked. It seems she may not have Bangladeshi citizenship, just the potential right to claim it.

    That was the line that jumped out in BBC story for me. 'She is believed to be of Bangladeshi heritage but when asked by the BBC, she said did not have a Bangladesh passport and had never been to the country'. Seems like that really needs looking into since you cannot do this based on assumptions.

    Although as we've seen from the dual citizenship troubles in Australian politics in the last few years, turns out you can hold citizenship of other nations without even realising it in some instances, depending on what the law is with the other nation.

    Can't imagine Bangladesh would be happy with being dumped with the woman though.

    She was clearly made in Britain. We should take responsibility for her if she is not tried for any crimes she commited while abroad.

    I hope you're not suggesting her Muslim upbringing has anything to do with all this.
    No, it's Britain, France, German and other cultures of Europe that are the cause. Not the ideology of hatred of other religions and kaffar...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:
    To be in the future relationship not the WA. Which will take till a meteor hits the planet to sort out !


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    EU sources expressed frustration that they were having to “re-educate” Cox, who is new to the talks, about the lack of realism in the central demands made by May.

    That irritation has been shared in Berlin. Michael Roth, Germany’s minister for Europe, said new “realistic suggestions” were needed from Downing Street to allow the negotiations to progress.

    “There is no point in abstractly demanding changes or to make demands, which are completely unacceptable for us,” Roth said. “There can be no limit to the backstop, there can’t be an automatic expiration of the backstop.

    “Right now I do not see the necessary willingness to budge on the part of the British and this doesn’t make things easier because time is running out.”

    EU sources said Barnier and his deputy, Sabine Weyand, had been “forensic” in their dismantling of the Malthouse compromise on Monday. Barnier told Barclay that suspending EU law on the border was not a viable solution to the problem. Weyand later privately lamented that the EU was having to repeat arguments to Cox first made in August 2017.

    Boohoo to them. They were so bloody pleased at beating us in the negotiations to the point they never cared if it did be agreed or not (And no, May saying it would is not convincing, they are not dumb enough to think it would go through just because May said so)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    @KateEMcCann: NEW: Just had a chat with Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay who confirmed the UK WILL take new legal proposals out to EU tomorrow, prepared by the Att Gen Geoffrey Cox. Also confirmed Malthouse Compromise alt arrangements will form part of future relationship discussions only.
  • AndyJS said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
    And if they were honest, the other 30-40% wouldn't want her as a neighbour......

    I have no time for Begum whatsoever, but if you give politicians the right to take away citizenship do not imagine they will always use it in ways you agree with.
    As I said on the previous thread, in my view stripping people of citizenship - which is only possible for dual citizens - creates two classes of British citizen (permanent and contingent) and so aids those who wish to sow division. But certainly, allowing a politician to wield this power over people convicted of no crime without any kind of effective judicial oversight is insane. It is a power that is asking to be abused; I would be surprised if it hasn't been yet and I am certain that it will be in the future.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited February 2019
    IanB2 said:

    EU sources expressed frustration that they were having to “re-educate” Cox, who is new to the talks, about the lack of realism in the central demands made by May.

    That irritation has been shared in Berlin. Michael Roth, Germany’s minister for Europe, said new “realistic suggestions” were needed from Downing Street to allow the negotiations to progress.

    “There is no point in abstractly demanding changes or to make demands, which are completely unacceptable for us,” Roth said. “There can be no limit to the backstop, there can’t be an automatic expiration of the backstop.

    “Right now I do not see the necessary willingness to budge on the part of the British and this doesn’t make things easier because time is running out.”

    EU sources said Barnier and his deputy, Sabine Weyand, had been “forensic” in their dismantling of the Malthouse compromise on Monday. Barnier told Barclay that suspending EU law on the border was not a viable solution to the problem. Weyand later privately lamented that the EU was having to repeat arguments to Cox first made in August 2017.

    You could write that the other way round. We are tired of explaining why the numptees keep insisting on the same undeliverable WA.

    The fact that both sides are intransigent means both are experiencing the same frustrations. It shows both parties in the same light.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:
    Plan R is the same as Plan Q. There is no alternative...

    (repeat until Parliamentary panic capitulation in about a month)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU sources expressed frustration that they were having to “re-educate” Cox, who is new to the talks, about the lack of realism in the central demands made by May.

    That irritation has been shared in Berlin. Michael Roth, Germany’s minister for Europe, said new “realistic suggestions” were needed from Downing Street to allow the negotiations to progress.

    “There is no point in abstractly demanding changes or to make demands, which are completely unacceptable for us,” Roth said. “There can be no limit to the backstop, there can’t be an automatic expiration of the backstop.

    “Right now I do not see the necessary willingness to budge on the part of the British and this doesn’t make things easier because time is running out.”

    EU sources said Barnier and his deputy, Sabine Weyand, had been “forensic” in their dismantling of the Malthouse compromise on Monday. Barnier told Barclay that suspending EU law on the border was not a viable solution to the problem. Weyand later privately lamented that the EU was having to repeat arguments to Cox first made in August 2017.

    Boohoo to them. They were so bloody pleased at beating us in the negotiations to the point they never cared if it did be agreed or not (And no, May saying it would is not convincing, they are not dumb enough to think it would go through just because May said so)
    Quite - if only they were as good at parliamentary arithmetic as they are at leaking after talks...
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    AndyJS said:

    Javid is simply desperate to appeal to the Tory base. Then again, he is a guy who likes Ayn Rand so this is probably just where he’s at politically.

    The polls will probably show at least 60-70% of people agreeing with this decision. That isn't the Tory base.
    And if they were honest, the other 30-40% wouldn't want her as a neighbour......

    I have no time for Begum whatsoever, but if you give politicians the right to take away citizenship do not imagine they will always use it in ways you agree with.
    As I said on the previous thread, in my view stripping people of citizenship - which is only possible for dual citizens - creates two classes of British citizen (permanent and contingent) and so aids those who wish to sow division. But certainly, allowing a politician to wield this power over people convicted of no crime without any kind of effective judicial oversight is insane. It is a power that is asking to be abused; I would be surprised if it hasn't been yet and I am certain that it will be in the future.
    But the opposite to your argument is true as well. People being allowed dual citizenship creates two classes of citizens and sows division.

    I have read here multiple times, not from you I hasten to add, from dual citizens that they will use their non-British citizenship to gain some advantage that sole British citizens would not be eligible for. Usually accompanied by the sucker emoji.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    I was expecting the EU to be really positive as usual.
This discussion has been closed.