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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    Hmm I now think we're at the point where 7 Tory remain "No confidencers" can't stop a March 29th exit as the GE would arrive too late.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500

    Mr. 1992, ha. Can't be as fun as the time I was the only man in an hour long seminar that was on menstruation.

    I hope on leaving you were heard to say "well that was a bloody waste of time...."
    A friend of my son's took a course on Women's Studies at Uni, largely, IIRC, for a dare. He infuriated the lecturer, largely because he was there, but also because he did what you're supposed to do at Uni, and argued his corner. Somewhat unsurprisingly she failed him which meant he got a Desmond.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmm I now think we're at the point where 7 Tory remain "No confidencers" can't stop a March 29th exit as the GE would arrive too late.

    I think that was the point of the two week delay.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    RH1992 said:

    Welcome to PB, Mr. 1992.

    Thanks, I've posted a couple of times before but it's particularly great procrastination while I'm bored in my masters seminars ha.
    Indeed, welcome!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmm I now think we're at the point where 7 Tory remain "No confidencers" can't stop a March 29th exit as the GE would arrive too late.

    I think that was the point of the two week delay.
    Perhaps, these little milestones are interesting to note however.
  • Mr. Mark, in retrospect, I feel slightly sorry for the ladies present as it must've been a little awkward for them too.

    On the plus side, I learnt the mingke[sp] whale is the only other animal that menstruates, lending credence to the aquatic ape theory.

    And that women collectively overestimate how many of them suffer PMS (via reported suffering compared to diaries they wrote themselves). Obviously pointing this out is not for the faint of heart.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622

    Mr. 1992, ha. Can't be as fun as the time I was the only man in an hour long seminar that was on menstruation.

    I hope on leaving you were heard to say "well that was a bloody waste of time...."
    A friend of my son's took a course on Women's Studies at Uni, largely, IIRC, for a dare. He infuriated the lecturer, largely because he was there, but also because he did what you're supposed to do at Uni, and argued his corner. Somewhat unsurprisingly she failed him which meant he got a Desmond.
    A Desmond - but ten thousand Bloke Points!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500

    Mr. Mark, in retrospect, I feel slightly sorry for the ladies present as it must've been a little awkward for them too.

    On the plus side, I learnt the mingke[sp] whale is the only other animal that menstruates, lending credence to the aquatic ape theory.

    And that women collectively overestimate how many of them suffer PMS (via reported suffering compared to diaries they wrote themselves). Obviously pointing this out is not for the faint of heart.

    Minke
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Yay, another British idiot giving the rest of us a bad name.

    What chance there’s way more to the actual story than the Grauniad are reporting?
  • King Cole, I didn't say anything, but one of the feminist lecturers did state (wrongly) that 'history' was indicative of male privilege etc, being 'his story'.

    It derives, of course, from the Latin historia. Which is a feminine noun.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Sandpit said:

    Yay, another British idiot giving the rest of us a bad name.

    What chance there’s way more to the actual story than the Grauniad are reporting?
    Apparently he's an Arsenal fan who lives in the West Midlands.

    Make of that what you will!
  • I'm not sure this real. From the Guardian


    'May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030

    May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

    She says the Irish government has suggested annual meetings, where both PMs and their ministers could come together to discuss issues.

    May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.'

    Did she really say this? And isn't she aware that the Scots and Welsh have FA'd off already?

    The idea of a UK - Ireland joint world cup bid with matches at grounds across both countries has been on the agenda for a long time. It is not new
    I thought it was the three home nations (without England) plus RoI.
    I wonder who suggested it to May!
    I assume TM has been aware of the plans for as long as they have been discussed

    It is a joint UK and Ireland bid to include all nations. Bit like the rugby but without France
    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.

    As far as I can see she was trying to smooth over waters but of course trying to explain to business why the backstop they had endorsed was now persona non grata was never a win situation.

    I am frustrated with the whole process and I am hoping the HOC will put direction into it next week and TM must then get on with it

    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
  • WigeonWigeon Posts: 11

    Wigeon said:

    Wigeon said:

    Hello, first post. A refugee from Order-Order. The site is a joke, too many weirdos and nasty people abound.

    Welcome. I hope we've less weirdos and nasties.
    Thank you OKC. Read this blog for ages and decided, to be honest, far more interesting and sociable. The language on OrderOrder is disgraceful and I consider myself a man of the world.
    Welcome to PB - It is virtually my first place for news these days. And such varied opinions
    Cheers Big G. Where about in North Wales, I know it well, at least every inch of the A55
  • New HMV has given up on the SW.

    Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Bath all closing.

    The Wurzels aren't selling like they used to.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500

    King Cole, I didn't say anything, but one of the feminist lecturers did state (wrongly) that 'history' was indicative of male privilege etc, being 'his story'.

    It derives, of course, from the Latin historia. Which is a feminine noun.

    That canard comes up every so often, doesn't it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip
  • Wigeon said:

    Wigeon said:

    Wigeon said:

    Hello, first post. A refugee from Order-Order. The site is a joke, too many weirdos and nasty people abound.

    Welcome. I hope we've less weirdos and nasties.
    Thank you OKC. Read this blog for ages and decided, to be honest, far more interesting and sociable. The language on OrderOrder is disgraceful and I consider myself a man of the world.
    Welcome to PB - It is virtually my first place for news these days. And such varied opinions
    Cheers Big G. Where about in North Wales, I know it well, at least every inch of the A55
    Llandudno, the Queen of Welsh resorts
  • King Cole, cheers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Mr. 1992, ha. Can't be as fun as the time I was the only man in an hour long seminar that was on menstruation.

    I hope on leaving you were heard to say "well that was a bloody waste of time...."
    A friend of my son's took a course on Women's Studies at Uni, largely, IIRC, for a dare. He infuriated the lecturer, largely because he was there, but also because he did what you're supposed to do at Uni, and argued his corner. Somewhat unsurprisingly she failed him which meant he got a Desmond.
    A friend of mine is Professor of Gender and Culture. She gets quite a few male students on her courses in feminist theory. In paeticular they tend to be international students.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500

    I'm not sure this real. From the Guardian


    'May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030

    May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

    She says the Irish government has suggested annual meetings, where both PMs and their ministers could come together to discuss issues.

    May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.'

    Did she really say this? And isn't she aware that the Scots and Welsh have FA'd off already?

    The idea of a UK - Ireland joint world cup bid with matches at grounds across both countries has been on the agenda for a long time. It is not new
    I thought it was the three home nations (without England) plus RoI.
    I wonder who suggested it to May!
    I assume TM has been aware of the plans for as long as they have been discussed

    It is a joint UK and Ireland bid to include all nations. Bit like the rugby but without France
    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.

    As far as I can see she was trying to smooth over waters but of course trying to explain to business why the backstop they had endorsed was now persona non grata was never a win situation.

    I am frustrated with the whole process and I am hoping the HOC will put direction into it next week and TM must then get on with it

    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
    Agree; we really need to get the matter sorted. Someone one said the other day that if you loaded a ship with cars this weeks they would not get to, for example South Korea for six weeks and what will the import rules be then?
    And, from family experience, the South Koreans are a touchy lot when it comes to standards and rules.
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Foxy said:

    Mr. 1992, ha. Can't be as fun as the time I was the only man in an hour long seminar that was on menstruation.

    I hope on leaving you were heard to say "well that was a bloody waste of time...."
    A friend of my son's took a course on Women's Studies at Uni, largely, IIRC, for a dare. He infuriated the lecturer, largely because he was there, but also because he did what you're supposed to do at Uni, and argued his corner. Somewhat unsurprisingly she failed him which meant he got a Desmond.
    A friend of mine is Professor of Gender and Culture. She gets quite a few male students on her courses in feminist theory. In paeticular they tend to be international students.
    Glad to hear it. My anecdote was from over 20 years ago so attitudes may well have moved on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    I'm not sure this real. From the Guardian


    'May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030

    May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

    She says the Irish government has suggested annual meetings, where both PMs and their ministers could come together to discuss issues.

    May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.'

    Did she really say this? And isn't she aware that the Scots and Welsh have FA'd off already?

    The idea of a UK - Ireland joint world cup bid with matches at grounds across both countries has been on the agenda for a long time. It is not new
    I thought it was the three home nations (without England) plus RoI.
    I wonder who suggested it to May!
    I assume TM has been aware of the plans for as long as they have been discussed

    It is a joint UK and Ireland bid to include all nations. Bit like the rugby but without France
    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.

    As far as I can see she was trying to smooth over waters but of course trying to explain to business why the backstop they had endorsed was now persona non grata was never a win situation.

    I am frustrated with the whole process and I am hoping the HOC will put direction into it next week and TM must then get on with it

    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
    Agree; we really need to get the matter sorted. Someone one said the other day that if you loaded a ship with cars this weeks they would not get to, for example South Korea for six weeks and what will the import rules be then?
    And, from family experience, the South Koreans are a touchy lot when it comes to standards and rules.
    Over the next month, a lot of lambs will be born in the UK, 70% normally are exported to the EU. 35% tarrif if no deal, I believe.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Sandpit said:

    Yay, another British idiot giving the rest of us a bad name.

    What chance there’s way more to the actual story than the Grauniad are reporting?
    Apparently he's an Arsenal fan who lives in the West Midlands.

    Make of that what you will!
    Even if he didn’t have perfect knowledge of the complicated political situation in the Gulf, he must surely have noticed from his experience of going to football matches that he was wearing the shirt of the team playing the host nation, that he was the *only* person wearing such shirt, and that people were offering him piles of cash for his ticket - as the local Emiratis were to anyone who looked like a tourist.

    Much more likely he was drunk and making a nuisance of himself.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Foxy said:

    I'm not sure this real. From the Guardian


    'May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030

    May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

    She says the Irish government has suggested annual meetings, where both PMs and their ministers could come together to discuss issues.

    May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.'

    Did she really say this? And isn't she aware that the Scots and Welsh have FA'd off already?

    The idea of a UK - Ireland joint world cup bid with matches at grounds across both countries has been on the agenda for a long time. It is not new
    I thought it was the three home nations (without England) plus RoI.
    I wonder who suggested it to May!
    I assume TM has been aware of the plans for as long as they have been discussed

    It is a joint UK and Ireland bid to include all nations. Bit like the rugby but without France
    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.

    As far as I can see she was trying to smooth over waters but of course trying to explain to business why the backstop they had endorsed was now persona non grata was never a win situation.

    I am frustrated with the whole process and I am hoping the HOC will put direction into it next week and TM must then get on with it

    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
    Agree; we really need to get the matter sorted. Someone one said the other day that if you loaded a ship with cars this weeks they would not get to, for example South Korea for six weeks and what will the import rules be then?
    And, from family experience, the South Koreans are a touchy lot when it comes to standards and rules.
    Over the next month, a lot of lambs will be born in the UK, 70% normally are exported to the EU. 35% tarrif if no deal, I believe.
    LibDems regain Montgomery?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Mr. 1992, ha. Can't be as fun as the time I was the only man in an hour long seminar that was on menstruation.

    I hope on leaving you were heard to say "well that was a bloody waste of time...."
    A friend of my son's took a course on Women's Studies at Uni, largely, IIRC, for a dare. He infuriated the lecturer, largely because he was there, but also because he did what you're supposed to do at Uni, and argued his corner. Somewhat unsurprisingly she failed him which meant he got a Desmond.
    A friend of mine is Professor of Gender and Culture. She gets quite a few male students on her courses in feminist theory. In paeticular they tend to be international students.
    Glad to hear it. My anecdote was from over 20 years ago so attitudes may well have moved on.
    Apparently it is often so they can write better grant applications to NGO's, though presumably some agree with the course objectives.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622
    nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    It's more astonishing that 500+ MPs haven't told them to do one.

    The country is being held hostage by several hundred Remainers who won't accept the result of the Referendum. The ERG are a sideshow.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    Liam Neeson! I honestly don't know what to say. Except what a good job he didn't actually slay any black men. That would have been hard to bounce back from.
  • Want to know just how ridiculous the swivel-eyed Buccaneer loons are?

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1092721982876147714?s=21
  • I'm not sure this real. From the Guardian


    'May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030

    May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

    The idea of a UK - Ireland joint world cup bid with matches at grounds across both countries has been on the agenda for a long time. It is not new
    I thought it was the three home nations (without England) plus RoI.
    I wonder who suggested it to May!
    I assume TM has been aware of the plans for as long as they have been discussed

    It is a joint UK and Ireland bid to include all nations. Bit like the rugby but without France
    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.

    As far as I can see she was trying to smooth over waters but of course trying to explain to business why the backstop they had endorsed was now persona non grata was never a win situation.

    I am frustrated with the whole process and I am hoping the HOC will put direction into it next week and TM must then get on with it

    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
    Agree; we really need to get the matter sorted. Someone one said the other day that if you loaded a ship with cars this weeks they would not get to, for example South Korea for six weeks and what will the import rules be then?
    And, from family experience, the South Koreans are a touchy lot when it comes to standards and rules.
    I visited Busan in South Korea a couple of years ago and it was just amazing. It looked as if they had highjacked all the worlds shipbuilding and ship maintenance and just ozzed manufacturing activity.

    There is no doubt the far east is the future for trade as the EU struggles as per the report today in the decline of Germany as it loses out across the board to China

    Not that I want a no deal, not under any circumstances
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. 1992, ha. Can't be as fun as the time I was the only man in an hour long seminar that was on menstruation.

    Femstruation, surely, if history is a phallocentric word?
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
  • Yet another poll showing a big Macron bounce in France ...

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1092826591435128833?s=21
  • Mr. Z, well, quite.

    My less politically correct creation Sir Edric occasionally (when people use idiotic terms like mansplaining) refers to femsterical people, or ovary-acting.

    This bizarre idea that (in everyday discourse) gender-based insults are a good thing is baffling to me. For comedians and the like, it's a different kettle of monkeys.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    edited February 2019

    I'm not sure this real. From the Guardian


    'May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030

    May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

    The idea of a UK - Ireland joint world cup bid with matches at grounds across both countries has been on the agenda for a long time. It is not new
    I thought it was the three home nations (without England) plus RoI.
    I wonder who suggested it to May!
    I assume TM has been aware of the plans for as long as they have been discussed

    It is a joint UK and Ireland bid to include all nations. Bit like the rugby but without France
    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.


    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
    Agree; we really need to get the matter sorted. Someone one said the other day that if you loaded a ship with cars this weeks they would not get to, for example South Korea for six weeks and what will the import rules be then?
    And, from family experience, the South Koreans are a touchy lot when it comes to standards and rules.
    I visited Busan in South Korea a couple of years ago and it was just amazing. It looked as if they had highjacked all the worlds shipbuilding and ship maintenance and just ozzed manufacturing activity.

    There is no doubt the far east is the future for trade as the EU struggles as per the report today in the decline of Germany as it loses out across the board to China

    Not that I want a no deal, not under any circumstances
    Agree, again. Not been to Korea, but one of my sons visits regularly selling British electronics. Apparently, from the commission he reports, successfully. It's a big market for his company.

    EDIT; Sorting predictive text!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Yet another poll showing a big Macron bounce in France ...

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1092826591435128833?s=21

    Now only at 66% disapproval ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    kinabalu said:

    Liam Neeson! I honestly don't know what to say. Except what a good job he didn't actually slay any black men. That would have been hard to bounce back from.

    We can add "Taken" to the method acted/directed movie list... (Includes Lolita and American Beauty...)
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    Yep. Either that or My Deal or Referendum.

    I suspect ERG would be delighted with My Deal or Revoke. They would vote down her deal and then spend five years screaming democratic betrayal, and Farage can start his new party.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Eagles,

    "That's nothing, I've worn Liverpool shirts in Manchester."

    You mad fool.

    A few years ago, I wore my Boston United replica shirt on a night out in Liverpool. On the piss-heads' train back (the last one) to Manchester Victoria (I get off at Rainhill), I got talking to a couple of Mancs who asked about the shirt. All very amiable until the Scousers' ears pricked up.

    When the men mentioned they were United fans, there was a sudden hush and a half dozen large and drunk gentlemen took a sudden interest. I did my boy-scout act by doing my best to protect them (Boston fans are a curiosity not a problem). I manged to keep them safe until the couple got off quickly at Huyton, where I suspect they called a taxi to go home.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    RobD said:

    Yet another poll showing a big Macron bounce in France ...

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1092826591435128833?s=21

    Now only at 66% disapproval ;)
    In the French 2 round system, that is nearly nailed on re election.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219

    nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    Takes all the pressure off the remainers to support her deal though, and there are probably more of those than ERGers ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,193
    A majority of the Commons voted against No Deal last month by 318 votes to 310.

    The question is if the Deal is defeated again but the Commons backs permanent Customs Union with Single Market elements on a similar margin to its rejection of No Deal would May accept that or there be a confrontation between the executive and legislature?
  • Pulpstar said:

    nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    Takes all the pressure off the remainers to support her deal though, and there are probably more of those than ERGers ;)
    Well, she got herself in this shit, ably assisted by her dysfunctional Party.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2019
    The German Social Democrats are still averaging 15% in the polls, although the AfD has declined recently and the Greens have become more popular.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    From the words she used, as reported, I think she thought it was her idea. But you think more highly of her than I do, so may be giving her the benefit of the doubt which I would not.
    On the subject of TM I really did not see the point in her speech in NI today.

    As far as I can see she was trying to smooth over waters but of course trying to explain to business why the backstop they had endorsed was now persona non grata was never a win situation.

    I am frustrated with the whole process and I am hoping the HOC will put direction into it next week and TM must then get on with it

    I cannot see anything but an extension now and with a move towards Norway but if that is the case we should just remain. In those circumstances TM would have to resign

    For now I am hoping she breaks through but boy, is it frustrating
    Agree; we really need to get the matter sorted. Someone one said the other day that if you loaded a ship with cars this weeks they would not get to, for example South Korea for six weeks and what will the import rules be then?
    And, from family experience, the South Koreans are a touchy lot when it comes to standards and rules.
    I visited Busan in South Korea a couple of years ago and it was just amazing. It looked as if they had highjacked all the worlds shipbuilding and ship maintenance and just ozzed manufacturing activity.

    There is no doubt the far east is the future for trade as the EU struggles as per the report today in the decline of Germany as it loses out across the board to China

    Not that I want a no deal, not under any circumstances
    I know this is a controversial view, but the clean break with the EU ecosystem that is no deal, represents the best chance of increasing trade with the growth markets in Asia. In the medium term (5-10 years) it will almost certainly be advantageous, as compared to still discussing a trade agreement with the EU while trapped in their CU backstop.

    The political questions are: can we mitigate sufficiently the short term impact of leaving with no deal, to realise the gains on the other side; and do we have sufficient dynamics in government and business to be able to take full advantage of the opportunity?

    The closest parallel is probably when we left the ERM in 1992 - it was with hindsight very good economically in the medium term, but disastrous politically for the government of the day to have lost control of events.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    AndyJS said:

    The German Social Democrats are still averaging 15% in the polls, although the AfD has declined recently and the Greens have become more popular.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Got to be churn, surely.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The latest lunacy is to remove all tariffs in the event of no deal .

    This would overnight destroy many sectors , a flood of cheap imports would render them unable to compete. It will also mean no country has any need to do a FTA.

  • This is getting more complex than Game of Thrones.
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253

    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'

    I agree that she will not allow No Deal. I have wobbled a bit on this but I am pretty sure now.

    However, I think her ultimate backstop if this parliament just refuses to play ball is not Revoke but get a new parliament - i.e. General Election.
  • kinabalu said:

    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'

    I agree that she will not allow No Deal. I have wobbled a bit on this but I am pretty sure now.

    However, I think her ultimate backstop if this parliament just refuses to play ball is not Revoke but get a new parliament - i.e. General Election.
    Given her performance so far, she will simply ask for an extension, say she is going to Brussels to negotiate a new WA, and keep that can heading down the road for another three months.
  • WigeonWigeon Posts: 11
    Probably a number of posters on here will disagree with the following but, it is actually what I think is happening.
    I have done my best to follow or at least try to follow the actions of T.May over the last few months, She has offered to the HoC a WA which she and her advisers knew, had no chance whatsoever of gaining approval, she knew 100% in December and 100% in January. Since then, from all reports I can glean she has moved towards modifying it by zero amount but with lots of flourishes added. So, without any massive changes, she is not going to shift the majority of that revolt of 230 MP’s as in the first vote. She also knows that the EU, according to Junkers et al, are not prepared to move on the agreed WA/Backstop. Unless there are some considerable changes to May’s offer, and I don’t mean fiddling with the edges, the next effort should give a similar resounding defeat for her.
    Why is she doing this?
    I don’t believe an intelligent woman who is surrounded by some, shall we say, inadvised MP’s, but also some highly respected MP’s and legal advisers, would travel in this direction without an agenda which is the ultimate target for her. I don’t now believe her target is to remain in the EU or even be conjoined to most if any of the major aspects of the EU. She must be aware of the feelings in the country and the inevitable resultant backlash in the event of not leaving or, delaying the EU exit. She and the Conservative party are going to loose so much if she does that.
    She has to reach her target by upsetting as few people, primarily us, to the extent that Corbyn does not have the opportunity of forming a government. She has to allow MP’s, Remainers, to keep hope of being able to foil us leaving in March, it keeps up her appearance of being a very stubborn woman, mainly to Brexiters, which keeps almost everyone on opposing sides at loggerheads and, most importantly, running down the clock.
    It may be she is playing a blinder and steering us towards a no deal Brexit on the 29th March this year.
    I hope I am right for many people’s sake and hope some contributors on here possibly agree with me because if I am right, Independence Day is the 29th March 2019.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    kinabalu said:

    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'

    I agree that she will not allow No Deal. I have wobbled a bit on this but I am pretty sure now.

    However, I think her ultimate backstop if this parliament just refuses to play ball is not Revoke but get a new parliament - i.e. General Election.
    I think No Deal is increasingly likely on March 29th. It is the default, and no one should overestimate the competence of our MPs.
  • kinabalu said:

    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'

    I agree that she will not allow No Deal. I have wobbled a bit on this but I am pretty sure now.

    However, I think her ultimate backstop if this parliament just refuses to play ball is not Revoke but get a new parliament - i.e. General Election.
    Wouldn't get enough votes in Parliament for that, would she? Her own MPs would be very unhappy about it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    New HMV has given up on the SW.

    Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Bath all closing.

    To be fair, they still think the gramophone is witchcraft down in those parts.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?
  • That's an excellent chart, I was planning to do something similar but it's a lot of work. Obviously the probabilities are just guesses, but it's easy to tweak them if you disagree.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    twitter.com/GatehouseAP/status/1092820341955743745

    This is getting more complex than Game of Thrones.
    Not enough sex for my liking, however. :D
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
    You think she would do it, Richard? I know the mechanics take us into it if nobody does anything, but she has the power to stop it with a Revoke letter.

    Parliament has the power to stop it by agreeing her Deal, subject possibly to some assistance from the EU in the form of relaxing the deadline.

    Personally I dont think she would allow No Deal. She might leave it to the last minute, but at the end of the day, if nobody else blinks, I think she will.

    You don't agree?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Congratulations Nick, may you have a very happy birthday!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    Pulpstar said:

    We can add "Taken" to the method acted/directed movie list... (Includes Lolita and American Beauty...)

    It is just like something out of a Liam Neeson film, isn't it!

    Sometimes people in their desire to appear courageously 'unPC' end up oversharing and I think this could be what has happened here. It's a form of virtue-signalling.

    An example that I particularly remember was Toby Young revealing how he liked to wank over pictures of starving African children.

    Now, OK, we all do it, but is there a need to go public with that? Not sure there is.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2019

    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Happy Birthday, Nick!

    I don't really share your cheer, though. It's fascinating in the sense that reading about the disintegration of civil society in France in 1940 is fascinating. I'd rather read about that kind of disaster in history books than live through it.
  • Foxy said:


    Over the next month, a lot of lambs will be born in the UK, 70% normally are exported to the EU. 35% tarrif if no deal, I believe.

    I am not advocating No Deal but the lamb trade is a poor example to use. In year to November 2018 we exported 73,860 tonnes of lamb but we imported 70,416 tonnes.
  • Happy birthday, Mr. Palmer.

    In 20 years, you'll still be younger than Enrico Dandolo when he masterminded the conquest of Constantinople.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:


    Over the next month, a lot of lambs will be born in the UK, 70% normally are exported to the EU. 35% tarrif if no deal, I believe.

    I am not advocating No Deal but the lamb trade is a poor example to use. In year to November 2018 we exported 73,860 tonnes of lamb but we imported 70,416 tonnes.
    I am sure that we can scoff them, the point that I was making is that it is difficult to sign off contracts in the current Brexit vacuum.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited February 2019

    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Oh absolutely: once one learns to stop worrying about things one cannot possibly influence and to embrace, even welcome, the insanity of it all then it makes for quite an engaging spectator sport. And it's certainly unpredictable: in my (very limited) history of gambling I've actually had more luck backing horses, and even football teams, than I have done trying to guess what on Earth will happen with politics.

    (Edit: Oh, and congrats for the birthday!)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2019

    Foxy said:


    Over the next month, a lot of lambs will be born in the UK, 70% normally are exported to the EU. 35% tarrif if no deal, I believe.

    I am not advocating No Deal but the lamb trade is a poor example to use. In year to November 2018 we exported 73,860 tonnes of lamb but we imported 70,416 tonnes.
    That's a naive view. First there is the seasonality difference (we export when meat is ready in the UK and import more at other times of year), and secondly there are big differences in the cuts of meat/offal imported and exported.

    https://projectblue.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/Imported Publication Docs/BLBitesize_190201_WEB.pdf
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253

    Wouldn't get enough votes in Parliament for that, would she? Her own MPs would be very unhappy about it.

    Not everyone agrees with me but I think she could if the choice was that or Revoke.

    I think Tory MPs would prefer the devil to the deep blue sea.
  • We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Many congrats!
  • nico67 said:

    The latest lunacy is to remove all tariffs in the event of no deal .

    This would overnight destroy many sectors , a flood of cheap imports would render them unable to compete. It will also mean no country has any need to do a FTA.

    Abolishing the corn laws will be a great result if it happens.
  • We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Many Happy Returns!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
    You think she would do it, Richard? I know the mechanics take us into it if nobody does anything, but she has the power to stop it with a Revoke letter.

    Parliament has the power to stop it by agreeing her Deal, subject possibly to some assistance from the EU in the form of relaxing the deadline.

    Personally I dont think she would allow No Deal. She might leave it to the last minute, but at the end of the day, if nobody else blinks, I think she will.

    You don't agree?
    Is May Varoufakis or is she Tsipras? In other words, is her threat of No Deal real or will she cave in at the death?

    If she 'does a Tsipras' we end up remaining.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253

    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Definitely! I am 'luving' it. Will be sorry when the deal finally gets passed. And HB!
  • Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Liam Neeson! I honestly don't know what to say. Except what a good job he didn't actually slay any black men. That would have been hard to bounce back from.

    We can add "Taken" to the method acted/directed movie list... (Includes Lolita and American Beauty...)
    "Unknown" is my guilty pleasure :)
  • New HMV has given up on the SW.

    Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Bath all closing.

    Stratford Westfield closed some months back. On the other hand Romford HMV still there.
  • nico67 said:

    The latest lunacy is to remove all tariffs in the event of no deal .

    This would overnight destroy many sectors , a flood of cheap imports would render them unable to compete. It will also mean no country has any need to do a FTA.

    Abolishing the Porn laws will be a great result if it happens.
    :innocent:
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
    You think she would do it, Richard? I know the mechanics take us into it if nobody does anything, but she has the power to stop it with a Revoke letter.

    Parliament has the power to stop it by agreeing her Deal, subject possibly to some assistance from the EU in the form of relaxing the deadline.

    Personally I dont think she would allow No Deal. She might leave it to the last minute, but at the end of the day, if nobody else blinks, I think she will.

    You don't agree?
    Yes I think she will. The one thing I think she will not do under any circumstances is revoke. I think she is too stubborn for that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,137

    New HMV has given up on the SW.

    Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Bath all closing.

    To be fair, they still think the gramophone is witchcraft down in those parts.
    I've been to Exeter. It's very nice. But it's on a 45 degree slope... :(
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Oooh, she can be told "No" by three people instead of two then?

    I'm sure she'll appreciate that.
  • viewcode said:

    New HMV has given up on the SW.

    Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Bath all closing.

    To be fair, they still think the gramophone is witchcraft down in those parts.
    I've been to Exeter. It's very nice. But it's on a 45 degree slope... :(
    But the station is pretty much level.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
    You think she would do it, Richard? I know the mechanics take us into it if nobody does anything, but she has the power to stop it with a Revoke letter.

    Parliament has the power to stop it by agreeing her Deal, subject possibly to some assistance from the EU in the form of relaxing the deadline.

    Personally I dont think she would allow No Deal. She might leave it to the last minute, but at the end of the day, if nobody else blinks, I think she will.

    You don't agree?
    Is May Varoufakis or is she Tsipras? In other words, is her threat of No Deal real or will she cave in at the death?

    If she 'does a Tsipras' we end up remaining.
    Given Tsipras is still in the big chair, and Varoufakis ain't, I think we could guess which one she will be motivated to emulate.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,137
    RobD said:

    twitter.com/GatehouseAP/status/1092820341955743745

    This is getting more complex than Game of Thrones.
    Not enough sex for my liking, however. :D
    Indeed. There are many things that can be said about Brexit but "it has a lot of tits and dragons" isn't one of them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
    You think she would do it, Richard? I know the mechanics take us into it if nobody does anything, but she has the power to stop it with a Revoke letter.

    Parliament has the power to stop it by agreeing her Deal, subject possibly to some assistance from the EU in the form of relaxing the deadline.

    Personally I dont think she would allow No Deal. She might leave it to the last minute, but at the end of the day, if nobody else blinks, I think she will.

    You don't agree?
    Yes I think she will. The one thing I think she will not do under any circumstances is revoke. I think she is too stubborn for that.
    Which is why it’s either a deal or no deal. And with the original deal as dead as a dodo, if the EU aren’t prepared to move towards her on the deal we could well be leaving without one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Oooh, she can be told "No" by three people instead of two then?

    I'm sure she'll appreciate that.
    It's so they can say it in different languages.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/GatehouseAP/status/1092820341955743745

    This is getting more complex than Game of Thrones.
    Not enough sex for my liking, however. :D
    Indeed. There are many things that can be said about Brexit but "it has a lot of tits and dragons" isn't one of them.
    Well dragons anyway. Plenty of tits on TV talking about it.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993

    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Interesting, but so far not good! - Just hope things take a turn for the better soon.

    Have always understood that "May you live in interesting tImes " was a blessing on the new born.

    Happy Birthday Nick

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    kle4 said:

    Oooh, she can be told "No" by three people instead of two then?

    I'm sure she'll appreciate that.
    It's so they can say it in different languages.
    - What did they say?
    - Nein, nein, nein.
    - We've got them on the run!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    Foxy said:

    I think No Deal is increasingly likely on March 29th. It is the default, and no one should overestimate the competence of our MPs.

    Perhaps I am being complacent but I simply cannot see a mature stable democracy such as ours deciding to move overnight from frictionless trade with our biggest market to bog basic WTO terms. And this is not to even mention the many & varied other issues, such as the Irish border, citizens rights, transport, security, etc etc.

    I still think (just) that the deal will get through - but if it doesn't IMO it will be article 50 extension for a general election.
  • timpletimple Posts: 123
    edited February 2019
    I know this is a controversial view, but the clean break with the EU ecosystem that is no deal, represents the best chance of increasing trade with the growth markets in Asia. In the medium term (5-10 years) it will almost certainly be advantageous, as compared to still discussing a trade agreement with the EU while trapped in their CU backstop.

    The political questions are: can we mitigate sufficiently the short term impact of leaving with no deal, to realise the gains on the other side; and do we have sufficient dynamics in government and business to be able to take full advantage of the opportunity?

    The closest parallel is probably when we left the ERM in 1992 - it was with hindsight very good economically in the medium term, but disastrous politically for the government of the day to have lost control of events.
    What prevents us from trading successfully with S Korea as a member of the EU? Especially since we have a FTA with S Korea via the EU (since 2015) unlike Mr Liam "40 trade deals by Brexit" Fox.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46917999
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,137

    We tend to be gloomy about all this, but on a cheerful note I turned 69 today and I've really NEVER found a more interesting time to follow politics. Interesting in the Chinese curse sense, maybe. But fascinating too, isn't it?

    Yes, but it's also annoying. It poses challenges in the sense it is a series of unfortunate events which must be navigated successfully and if possible overcome. So in the sense of keeping one's life muscles in, it is good practice. But it isn't a movie, it's IRL, and it will affect us, some badly. So in that sense, no. A tsunami looks different on the TV screen to those in its path.

    But having said that, happy birthday. 69 eh? Had anybody made the obvious joke yet?... :)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,902
    Wigeon said:

    Probably a number of posters on here will disagree with the following but, it is actually what I think is happening.
    I hope I am right for many people’s sake and hope some contributors on here possibly agree with me because if I am right, Independence Day is the 29th March 2019.

    Apologies for snipping most of your contribution but if you want someone to disagree with you, you've found him and, for your information, I voted LEAVE.

    There will be nothing to celebrate on 29/3/19 whether we leave with a Deal or not. The decision to LEAVE is an admission of failure, of our failure and the EU's failure as well.

    60 years of history and political direction weren't erased in a single night or by a single referendum. It was a long process withy many levels and factors.

    Our half-hearted, mean-spirited, rebate obsessed, opt-out driven travesty of a membership was a disaster both of us and from the EU. The only two coherent positions were all in or all out - instead, like the diner, we spent less time enjoying the food and more time wondering who was going to pay the bill.

    Yet the EU are far from blameless - the EEC, a community of nations bound by free trades, the EEC which aimed to bring forward the more economically backward and impoverished regions and help them, that was an organisation I could support.

    Yet the EU is the EU of the pernicious mechanism which is the Single Market which worships economic growth on the altar of cheap labour as more and more people are drawn like moths to the flame of the richer areas leaving so many areas behind.

    It's a mess - no two ways about it. Could it have been prevented? With political will on both sides, yes, but it was so much easier to get cheap votes defending the shape of bananas.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    Sandpit said:

    The closest parallel is probably when we left the ERM in 1992 - it was with hindsight very good economically in the medium term, but disastrous politically for the government of the day to have lost control of events.

    What parallel do you see in terms of the practical impact of No Deal versus leaving the ERM?
  • Wigeon said:

    Wigeon said:

    Wigeon said:

    Hello, first post. A refugee from Order-Order. The site is a joke, too many weirdos and nasty people abound.

    Welcome. I hope we've less weirdos and nasties.
    Thank you OKC. Read this blog for ages and decided, to be honest, far more interesting and sociable. The language on OrderOrder is disgraceful and I consider myself a man of the world.
    Welcome to PB - It is virtually my first place for news these days. And such varied opinions
    Cheers Big G. Where about in North Wales, I know it well, at least every inch of the A55
    Llandudno, the Queen of Welsh resorts
    I've been there by train, and I've done the Great Orme Tramway!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    stodge said:

    Yet the EU are far from blameless - the EEC, a community of nations bound by free trades, the EEC which aimed to bring forward the more economically backward and impoverished regions and help them, that was an organisation I could support.

    Yet the EU is the EU of the pernicious mechanism which is the Single Market which worships economic growth on the altar of cheap labour as more and more people are drawn like moths to the flame of the richer areas leaving so many areas behind.

    This is hysterical nonsense. The EEC always had free movement from its founding with the Treaty of Rome. As far as I can make out, if you object to anything concrete it's really the eastern expansion of the EU.
  • nico67 said:

    The best May will get is a codicil to the WA.

    At that point if she really cared about the UK she’d tell the ERG and DUP nutjobs to either accept that or she’ll revoke Article 50 and resign .

    It’s astonishing that the country is being held hostage by a at Max a 100 MPs out of 650.

    Ip

    I hope that next week the HOC gets their act together and takes no deal off the table

    That would focus minds
    I don't think she has to take ND off the table. She would never go there, so it is effectively off the table already.

    I agree that the point will come very soon when she can frankly and bluntly say as you propose - 'My Deal, or Revoke. You choose.'
    I am afraid those who think No Deal is off the table are sorely mistaken. No Deal is still what happens if Parliament cannot agree and pass a way forward that is acceptable to the EU. Until that happens No Deal remains the most likely outcome.
    You think she would do it, Richard? I know the mechanics take us into it if nobody does anything, but she has the power to stop it with a Revoke letter.

    Parliament has the power to stop it by agreeing her Deal, subject possibly to some assistance from the EU in the form of relaxing the deadline.

    Personally I dont think she would allow No Deal. She might leave it to the last minute, but at the end of the day, if nobody else blinks, I think she will.

    You don't agree?
    Is May Varoufakis or is she Tsipras? In other words, is her threat of No Deal real or will she cave in at the death?

    If she 'does a Tsipras' we end up remaining.
    Welcome, Yanis. We have been expecting you!
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