Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s approval ratings fall from from a net minus 3% to a n

SystemSystem Posts: 12,172
edited January 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s approval ratings fall from from a net minus 3% to a net minus 32% in just one year

Opinium

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    First!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    The fence isn't as healthy a place as originally thought!
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    No surprises, Corbyn has tried to be ambiguous on Brexit for so long.

    The day was always going to come when he needed to take a position and upset a lot of people
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Hmm.

    Obviously not good for him, but Labour is far more tribal than the Conservatives. Support may not dip as much as it would were these stats for a Conservative leader.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    I went to a local Lib Dem meeting last night. Genuinely surprised at the unanimity that (a) the party needs a new leader and (b) it should be Layla Moran. Ok, this is Oxfordshire so home advantage, but even so I was expecting a bit more equivocation.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Lots of his own MP's loathe him.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752

    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.
    I think the proportion of food we import is about one third, not 80%.
    About half and slowly rising
    It's probably not that we can't produce the food ourselves, just that it's cheaper to import it at the moment.
    The 'probably' in that sentence is doing a lot of work.

    We could feed ourselves at pinch. The free market is an amazingly efficient way of organising production and consumption. I don't think we'd like the results much though.
    we eat 20% too much and throw away 30% of the food we buy uneaten

    nobody is going to starve though supermarkets might sell less.

    I must have missed the "Vote Leave - You Probably Won't Starve" campaign.
    at any other time - outside the Brexit prism - worthy types like yourself would be advocating eating less ( save the NHS ) or stopping food waste. Now youve turned it all on its head just to feed a scare story. Brexit is driving you mad.
    Perhaps we can all agree that half the population has lost its senses.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.
    I think the proportion of food we import is about one third, not 80%.
    About half and slowly rising
    It's probably not that we can't produce the food ourselves, just that it's cheaper to import it at the moment.
    The 'probably' in that sentence is doing a lot of work.

    We could feed ourselves at pinch. The free market is an amazingly efficient way of organising production and consumption. I don't think we'd like the results much though.
    we eat 20% too much and throw away 30% of the food we buy uneaten

    nobody is going to starve though supermarkets might sell less.

    I must have missed the "Vote Leave - You Probably Won't Starve" campaign.
    at any other time - outside the Brexit prism - worthy types like yourself would be advocating eating less ( save the NHS ) or stopping food waste. Now youve turned it all on its head just to feed a scare story. Brexit is driving you mad.
    Perhaps we can all agree that half the population has lost its senses.
    No about 99% have
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    the talent pool below Nicola is somewhat depleted.

    It's barely a puddle
    Scotland is lucky. Sturgeon, Salmond and Davidson are substantial figures (like or loathe them).

    Have you seen the talent we have got in Wales in any of the three main parties ?

    Barely enough for a tear.

    Weep for Wales.
    Mind you 49% of Welsh voters voted against even having a Welsh Assembly in 1997 compared to just 25% of Scots who voted against having a Scottish Parliament and the independence movement has always been stronger in Scotland than in Wales.

    Hence more heavyweight figures in Scotland decide to build careers at Holyrood rather than Westminster than heavyweight figures in Wales decide to build a career at Cardiff Bay than Westminster
    The Scottish Parliament was held in some disregard until Salmond became FM.

    Whatever ones own personal opinion of the man, there is no doubt that Salmond turned that around when he stood as an MSP and then relinquished the B&B Westminster seat.

    There is no future for Wales until there is a realistic prospect of altering the one-party state. At the moment, there is the worst gerrymander in the Western world where Labour get 50 per cent of the seats on 30 per cent of the vote and Labour pipsqueaks preside over grotesque national decline.

    There is bloody reckoning coming for Welsh Labour, although probably not till Labour are in charge of Westminster again.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    I went to a local Lib Dem meeting last night. Genuinely surprised at the unanimity that (a) the party needs a new leader and (b) it should be Layla Moran. Ok, this is Oxfordshire so home advantage, but even so I was expecting a bit more equivocation.

    They would be wise to equivocate. Moran may be better than a tired Cable, but somehow embodies how we got into the Brexit mess. A bit preachy and remote.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited January 2019
    As I say on the previous thread ...

    "Unfortunately, with 'Ol Bonehead in charge, the best they can hope for is a hung Parliament."

    Why, tis only a flesh wound. Once the three week campaign starts, the manhole cover coveter will surge ahead.

    A re-run referendum will solve nothing but cause more bitterness, a GE will be indecisive, but a definite date for a leave date from the EU will help solve some issues. So, we can rule that out for sure.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited January 2019
    Mr Capitano,

    A new leader will get a 'new manager bounce'. Even if you took over. But on my shallow examination, she's neither new enough or attractive enough for it to be permanent.
  • German retail sales for December 2018.

    Down 4.3% on the month
    Down 2.1% on the year

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/PressServices/Press/pr/2019/01/PE19_035_45212.html

    Imagine the headlines if that had happened in this country.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,747

    Hmm.

    Obviously not good for him, but Labour is far more tribal than the Conservatives. Support may not dip as much as it would were these stats for a Conservative leader.

    Long-term Labour voters are also more inclined to abstain than Tories. Corbyn's Labour won nearly 12.9m votes in 2017: that's an awfully high base to start from (only 750k short of what Blair won in 1997 and 2.1m more than he won in 2001).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,274

    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.
    I think the proportion of food we import is about one third, not 80%.
    About half and slowly rising
    It's probably not that we can't produce the food ourselves, just that it's cheaper to import it at the moment.
    The 'probably' in that sentence is doing a lot of work.

    We could feed ourselves at pinch. The free market is an amazingly efficient way of organising production and consumption. I don't think we'd like the results much though.
    we eat 20% too much and throw away 30% of the food we buy uneaten

    nobody is going to starve though supermarkets might sell less.

    I must have missed the "Vote Leave - You Probably Won't Starve" campaign.
    at any other time - outside the Brexit prism - worthy types like yourself would be advocating eating less ( save the NHS ) or stopping food waste. Now youve turned it all on its head just to feed a scare story. Brexit is driving you mad.
    No, I'm pointing out that spinning the positives of disruption isn't an answer to the charge that we were promised no disruption.
    Your ad hominem is just distraction.

    I look forward to your worthy dietary tips.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Dura_Ace said:

    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.

    Don't you mean May can screw up an election so badly that people voted for the other side.

    Mind you I do think most people vote for the least worst option which means that for most voters parties don't win them the other party gifts / loses them due to a policy / policies that voter hates. And the Social care death tax was a great example of that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    Polls are utterly irrelevant.

    We have no idea what post Brexit politics looks like.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I have pointed out for some time just how dangerous Brexit is for Jeremy Corbyn.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,747
    edited January 2019
    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Dura_Ace said:

    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.

    That's crap. You've got it the wrong way round. Voting numbers are largely irrelevant compared with leader ratings.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can understand other companies warning about delays to imports but the amusing thing about the supermarkets and fast food companies is they have spent years banging on about their fresh 100% British produce. How long is McDonald's 100% British Beef going to spend stuck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produce does not mean that it is. As long as it was processed in the UK at one point, it can be labelled as British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.

    I can uck at Calais?

    ;)

    I believe just because something is advertised as being British produ British regardless of source.

    The UK imports around 80% of its food, including 50% of meat. The largest source of meat is Irish beef.
    I think the proportion of food we import is about one third, not 80%.
    About half and slowly rising
    It's probably not that we can't produce the food ourselves, just that it's cheaper to import it at the moment.
    The 'probably' in that sentence is doing a lot of work.

    We could feed ourselves at pinch. The free market is an amazingly efficient way of organising production and consumption. I don't think we'd like the results much though.
    we eat 20% too much and throw away 30% of the food we buy uneaten

    nobody is going to starve though supermarkets might sell less.

    I must have missed the "Vote Leave - You Probably Won't Starve" campaign.
    at any other time - outside the Brexit prism - worthy types like yourself would be advocating eating less ( save the NHS ) or stopping food waste. Now youve turned it all on its head just to feed a scare story. Brexit is driving you mad.
    No, I'm pointing out that spinning the positives of disruption isn't an answer to the charge that we were promised no disruption.
    Your ad hominem is just distraction.

    I look forward to your worthy dietary tips.
    and Im simply pointing out that pumping ridiculous scare mongering isnt actually going to change anything.

    my best tip is keep lots of stock or bouillon in the house. I hardly throw any food away since I make it into soup before it goes off. You can also freeze it,
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited January 2019

    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    The Tory campaign won't be as bad as the last time. It was destroyed by the Social Care "Death" tax which won't be part of any future manifesto.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Brooke,

    If the worst comes to the worst, we can eat Remainers, they'll probably think it's a mercy-killing.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Dura_Ace said:

    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.

    That's crap. You've got it the wrong way round. Voting numbers are largely irrelevant compared with leader ratings.
    I suspect what @Dura_Ace is getting at is that Labour won't move to get rid of Corbyn as long as the VI figures hold up - and even then he's probably safe as he made up a 20 point gap last time.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    CD13 said:

    Mr Brooke,

    If the worst comes to the worst, we can eat Remainers, they'll probably think it's a mercy-killing.

    do they come in baby size portions ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,274
    FPT
    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tlg86 said:
    Right down to a ten thousandth of a penny.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Jonathan said:

    Polls are utterly irrelevant.

    We have no idea what post Brexit politics looks like.

    Woolton Pie.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    eek said:

    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    The Tory campaign won't be as bad as the last time. It was destroyed by the Social Care "Death" tax which won't be part of any future manifesto.
    That is very unfortunate.

    Because there does need to be some more money put into Social Care, other than from the Unicorn Bank.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    tlg86 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.

    That's crap. You've got it the wrong way round. Voting numbers are largely irrelevant compared with leader ratings.
    I suspect what @Dura_Ace is getting at is that Labour won't move to get rid of Corbyn as long as the VI figures hold up - and even then he's probably safe as he made up a 20 point gap last time.
    The members want Corbyn to fight the next election, I am not sure what it would take in terms of polling to change that... I don't think any polling would change that. Wouldn't for me.

    As it is based on the polling, the situation and everything that comes with an election campaign I'd feel pretty confident about going into the next election.
  • On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    Labour were able to pick up lots of votes from students in 2017 with their tuition fees promises.

    If those students are already in the VI numbers then Labour wont be able to gain them a second time.

    The positive scenario for Labour is that they're not in the present VI but will return to Labour at a GE.

    The negative scenario for Labour is that they're already in the present VI but don't turn out at a GE.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,747
    Dura_Ace said:

    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.

    That's a very dangerous assumption to make.

    The classic case study is the 2011 Scottish Holyrood election, when Iain Gray's Labour had comfortable double-digit leads early in 2011, despite Alex Salmond enjoying much better leadership ratings. During the election, the VI completely switched around, to such an extent that the SNP won by 14% and gained an outright majority.

    The only extent to which I would say that there's a massive variable in the pipeline is in that there's a fair chance of a new Tory leader before the next GE, providing that the election isn't this Spring (which it might be if the DUP withdraw support from the Tories over the WA). But if it's later, Corbyn will be facing not May but a different PM. That may benefit Labour; alternatively, it very much might not.

  • eek said:

    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    The Tory campaign won't be as bad as the last time. It was destroyed by the Social Care "Death" tax which won't be part of any future manifesto.
    They're quite capable of putting in something else as bad or worse.

    The WFA change was a vote loser in 2017 as well.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited January 2019
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    Much of the turmoil in the European car industry is related to the diesel scandal and electric cars, with a lot of regulatory unknowns such as proposed city centre bans for certain cars.

    This is causing problems for JLR, who had something like 90% diesel sales in Europe only a couple of years ago and can’t get their electric model out of the factory bar a couple of press demonstrators. Most of the European ‘premium’ brands have similar problems. Tesla’s game-changing mass-market Model 3 is about to land in Europe too, and has the potential to screw up the market completely. It’s been the best selling car in the USA for the past six months as their factory ramps up production.

    At the top end of the car industry in the U.K. though, business is booming. Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin and McLaren can’t build cars quick enough and all have long waiting lists for new models.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    eek said:

    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    The Tory campaign won't be as bad as the last time. It was destroyed by the Social Care "Death" tax which won't be part of any future manifesto.
    It would be quite some achievement to make it a worse campaign. I'm struggling to think of what antics one could do to achieve that. My mind is boggling.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2019
    Looking at the table, how do people collect enough information to approve or disapprove of Cable? What has he done to merit more than a resigned, “meh”. It’s akin to having a strong opinion on pelargoniums.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited January 2019
    Jezza's focus is undiminished I see, according to the Guardian's Politics Live agenda for today:

    "10.15am: Jeremy Corbyn holds a meeting in Ilkeston focusing on bus services."
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    matt said:

    Looking at the table, how do people collect enough information to approve or disapprove of Cable? What has he done to merit more than a resigned, “meh”. It’s akin to having a strong opinion on pelargoniums.

    "Oh.. he's still going? That's nice. What about Willie Rushton?"
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
  • Scott_P said:
    "He was a man of principles (sic) until he broke them all", is pretty amusing. I actually think he is a man of principle, but is also an inveterate liar at the same time. His principle is socialism. He thinks that any lies or obfuscations and possibly even illegal activity that advance that cause are justified, and even to be applauded. In that regard he is little different form right wing Brexiteers. Hopefully it wont be long before people are saying "we have all had enough of extremists"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,190
    The US has a President as Head of State, constitutionally May as PM is really the equivalent of Pelosi, leader of the largest party in the lower House so party intentions matter more than individual approval ratings here
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    tlg86 said:



    I suspect what @Dura_Ace is getting at is that Labour won't move to get rid of Corbyn as long as the VI figures hold up - and even then he's probably safe as he made up a 20 point gap last time.

    That's what I'm getting at. The Corbyn Situation defies conventional empirical analysis as he shouldn't be in charge of absolutely anything at all never mind the country and yet he's pretty close to being PM.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,729

    Dura_Ace said:

    This means fuck all until the voting intention poll rating drops. Then that will mean fuck all because Corbo has show he can claw back a massive lead over the course of a campaign. He is going nowhere until Labour lose another GE. The only question is whether they win one first.

    That's crap. You've got it the wrong way round. Voting numbers are largely irrelevant compared with leader ratings.
    I thought the point was that any bad polls can be dismissed by his cult following until he loses badly in a real election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,274
    HYUFD said:

    The US has a President as Head of State, constitutionally May as PM is really the equivalent of Pelosi, leader of the largest party in the lower House so party intentions matter more than individual approval ratings here

    Not for the purpose of predicting likely electoral outcomes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622
    A lesson from history: want to end global warming? Then kill all the farmers.....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47063973
  • Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    How are you today, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf?
  • Jezza's focus is undiminished I see, according to the Guardian's Politics Live agenda for today:

    "10.15am: Jeremy Corbyn holds a meeting in Ilkeston focusing on bus services."

    He is doing what he likes to do. Campaign. Another similarity to trump. Much prefer to be doing the rally of their greatest hits than anything else.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    eek said:

    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    The Tory campaign won't be as bad as the last time. It was destroyed by the Social Care "Death" tax which won't be part of any future manifesto.
    That is very unfortunate.

    Because there does need to be some more money put into Social Care, other than from the Unicorn Bank.
    +1. Social care needs a serious looking at, on a cross-party basis and without the divisive language of an election campaign.

    If Parliament wants to redeem itself for their collective behaviour over the past few months, it might like to start talking about this issue when the Brexit legislation is done and dusted.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    eek said:

    On topic, I agree with Mike.

    Corbynistas will no doubt (rightly) point out that Corbyn's ratings were also bad - worse, indeed - before the 2017 campaign and improved hugely in the month leading up to the vote but in doing so, they ignore two things. Firstly, the Tory campaign cannot be guaranteed to be so singularly dreadful again (though if may is still leader, it might be); and secondly, voters who gave Corbyn a second chance in 2017 - remember, Labour was level-pegging with the Tories under Corbyn, while Cameron was PM - might be disinclined to give him a third one, no matter how well he campaigns.

    The Tory campaign won't be as bad as the last time. It was destroyed by the Social Care "Death" tax which won't be part of any future manifesto.
    That is the popular view, that the death tax killed the Tories, but I do not believe it. Lynton Crosby's dreadful campaign lost it, even though afterwards he spun it as being down to Nick & Fiona's death tax, a proposal quickly dropped and that I do not recall Labour focussing on, though with targeted advertising these days, it is hard to be sure what messages parties are pumping out on social media. Crosby imposed a presidential campaign with Theresa May front and centre and the rest of the Cabinet locked in a cupboard, completely overlooking that Theresa May is rotten on the stump. Labour made a similar mistake a decade back when failing to adjust their campaigning when Brown replaced Blair.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,190
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    The US has a President as Head of State, constitutionally May as PM is really the equivalent of Pelosi, leader of the largest party in the lower House so party intentions matter more than individual approval ratings here

    Not for the purpose of predicting likely electoral outcomes.
    Not necessarily, on personal approval ratings Callaghan would have beaten Thatcher in 1979
  • A lesson from history: want to end global warming? Then kill all the farmers.....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47063973

    Brexit will do that anyway, even though so many of them voted for it
  • Scott_P said:
    "He was a man of principles (sic) until he broke them all", is pretty amusing. I actually think he is a man of principle, but is also an inveterate liar at the same time. His principle is socialism. He thinks that any lies or obfuscations and possibly even illegal activity that advance that cause are justified, and even to be applauded. In that regard he is little different form right wing Brexiteers. Hopefully it wont be long before people are saying "we have all had enough of extremists"
    Jezzas world view hasn’t altered for 40 years. Everything has to be seen through his unwavering commitment to the view that proper socialism will cure all the worlds ills.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622

    Jezza's focus is undiminished I see, according to the Guardian's Politics Live agenda for today:

    "10.15am: Jeremy Corbyn holds a meeting in Ilkeston focusing on bus services."

    When I was a kid, Il'sun (as it was pronounced by the locals) was as Labour as you could get. The idea of having to campaign for Labour votes there would have been laughed at.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337

    I have pointed out for some time just how dangerous Brexit is for Jeremy Corbyn.

    I thought he might get away with the fence-sitting (and I still believe the govt will mostly carry the can for any disruption). But now we're in "parliament taking control - or failing to" mode, he will be seen as lacking in leadership if he doesn't step up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,622

    A lesson from history: want to end global warming? Then kill all the farmers.....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47063973

    Brexit will do that anyway, even though so many of them voted for it
    Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Prat.
  • I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    The GE predictions were not an underestimation of Corbyn. It was an overestimation of May. Corbyn apologists also forget one thing, even though May was inept, he still lost.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:



    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    I'm only an expert in giving them money but the industry is, without doubt, in the midst of massive disruptive change away from ICE.

    At my Porsche dealer, where I am a regular ordering bits for old 911s, their Taycan allocation sold out in a day and a half before the customers even knew what the specs or RRP would be. That is way faster than they shifted other fabulously desirable cars like the GT3RS and GT2. There's something happening here...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    How are you today, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf?
    I realise Im meant to rise to the bait, but really I just cant be arsed

    have a nice morning
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,747
    HYUFD said:

    The US has a President as Head of State, constitutionally May as PM is really the equivalent of Pelosi, leader of the largest party in the lower House so party intentions matter more than individual approval ratings here

    Do you have any evidence for that? This is psephology, not constitutional theory.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    I love the way Corbyn's main concern about Brexit is about our inability to unilaterally withdraw from the backstop now :D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,274

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    What do JLR mean by 'battery assembly centre' ?
  • Scott_P said:
    "He was a man of principles (sic) until he broke them all", is pretty amusing. I actually think he is a man of principle, but is also an inveterate liar at the same time. His principle is socialism. He thinks that any lies or obfuscations and possibly even illegal activity that advance that cause are justified, and even to be applauded. In that regard he is little different form right wing Brexiteers. Hopefully it wont be long before people are saying "we have all had enough of extremists"
    Jezzas world view hasn’t altered for 40 years. Everything has to be seen through his unwavering commitment to the view that proper socialism will cure all the worlds ills.
    Indeed. It is a twisted mind set that thinks the failings of socialism will be fixed by more socialism. Again, it is similar to other dogmatic beliefs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited January 2019

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    The problem for the tories is there is a significant number of people who don’t feel the current globalised liberal economy works for them, hence brexit. Jezzas, like trump, the superficial message is attractive and the tories appear to zero new ideas while also unable to illustrate the benefits of the globalised capitalist system.

    For the past 20 years, all the political parties and the media have been onboard the current system (give or take an extra bit of tax being redirected). But pro globalism, pro large scale immigration, etc etc etc, but stoke man doesn’t think it is doing much for them.
  • Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    How are you today, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf?
    I realise Im meant to rise to the bait, but really I just cant be arsed

    have a nice morning
    +1 :)
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    Some of his policies poll quite well, if the proposition is that the right wing media instead of making him out to be the devil talk about his policies I would be happier. Obviously there will be a negative slant on it but it will still get it out there.

    Corbyn's internal Labour critics actually abandoned the strategy of attacking him on policy and have more gone the same route as the right wing papers because attacking him on policy largely failed, the EU is one recent exception to this to a degree.

    In an ideal world elections would be about policies anyway IMO.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    matt said:

    Looking at the table, how do people collect enough information to approve or disapprove of Cable? What has he done to merit more than a resigned, “meh”. It’s akin to having a strong opinion on pelargoniums.

    John Bercow put his finger on the LibDem's problem, which is not Vince Cable. As the Speaker reminds a noisy House when Blackford is on his feet, the SNP is our third largest party. The broadcasters know it too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    FPT:


    I was gobsmacked yesterday when one of the Labour lot ( Rachel Reeves from memory ) said we had until the 29 March to decide. Nuts.

    The levels of incomprehension on all sides of the debate in parliament are staggering.
  • I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    Some of his policies poll quite well, if the proposition is that the right wing media instead of making him out to be the devil talk about his policies I would be happier. Obviously there will be a negative slant on it but it will still get it out there.

    Corbyn's internal Labour critics actually abandoned the strategy of attacking him on policy and have more gone the same route as the right wing papers because attacking him on policy largely failed, the EU is one recent exception to this to a degree.

    In an ideal world elections would be about policies anyway IMO.
    His policies are as incoherent as they are stupid. Like the man himself.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    Corbyn's policies are very popular. The reason they weren't examined is that the Tory campaign team knew that taking endlessly about your opponent's popular policies is not a recipe for success.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,747
    edited January 2019

    I have pointed out for some time just how dangerous Brexit is for Jeremy Corbyn.

    I thought he might get away with the fence-sitting (and I still believe the govt will mostly carry the can for any disruption). But now we're in "parliament taking control - or failing to" mode, he will be seen as lacking in leadership if he doesn't step up.
    I think Corbyn will, to a large extent, get away with Brexit in as far as blame for the outcome goes. What he may struggle more with, and what I was trying to get across in my weekend piece, was that he may struggle to avoid having a policy (as opposed to a process) afterwards.

    The country as a whole is fed up with Brexit but that doesn't go for Labour members and activists, and won't do once we leave. Labour members have a disproportionate number of FBPE types and are concentrated in London. There will be a lot of pressure to commit to rejoining. Labour can avoid the question for the moment, while they're in opposition; they can't avoid the question in their next manifesto, particularly as the Lib Dems - probably under new leadership by then - will have it as a centrepiece of their own manifesto.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    What do JLR mean by 'battery assembly centre' ?
    they assemble batteries ( power packs )

    the rest of the electic drive units will be built at their new factory in Wolverhampton
  • Pulpstar said:

    I love the way Corbyn's main concern about Brexit is about our inability to unilaterally withdraw from the backstop now :D

    Someone told him to say it, because the simpleton couldn't have worked it out for himself, particularly as he hasn't read the document.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,274
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    I'm only an expert in giving them money but the industry is, without doubt, in the midst of massive disruptive change away from ICE...
    That's my concern - the disruption coincides with Brexit, and that will colour major investment decisions, not to our advantage (as today's figures perhaps suggest).
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I have pointed out for some time just how dangerous Brexit is for Jeremy Corbyn.

    There does appear to be a certain amount of disquiet in the ranks...

    https://twitter.com/sunnysingh_n6/status/1090899683889897473

    https://twitter.com/sunnysingh_n6/status/1090900417138081797

    https://twitter.com/sunnysingh_n6/status/1090901105624657920
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,274
    edited January 2019

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    What do JLR mean by 'battery assembly centre' ?
    they assemble batteries ( power packs )
    But will they manufacture the batteries themselves ?
    (Power packs contain thousands of them.)
  • Lots of his own MP's loathe him.

    But fewer than did so before the 2017 GE. My own MP changed from signing letters demanding Corbyn's resignation in 2016 to becoming the worst sort of prating Jezza loyalist. Of course any electoral setback for Labour will encourage the flexible types to examine their own interests once again.
  • Scott_P said:

    I have pointed out for some time just how dangerous Brexit is for Jeremy Corbyn.

    There does appear to be a certain amount of disquiet in the ranks...

    twitter.com/sunnysingh_n6/status/1090899683889897473

    twitter.com/sunnysingh_n6/status/1090900417138081797

    twitter.com/sunnysingh_n6/status/1090901105624657920
    Poor Owen, he got it in the neck for not being a true believer, then goes all in on the cult and now getting it in the neck for being a cultist.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219

    Pulpstar said:

    I love the way Corbyn's main concern about Brexit is about our inability to unilaterally withdraw from the backstop now :D

    Someone told him to say it, because the simpleton couldn't have worked it out for himself, particularly as he hasn't read the document.
    Has a select comittee grilled Corbyn (In the way Raab was, who I thought came off much better than Twitter reckoned yesterday) about the detail of Brexit ?
    It could be an instructive exercise (well it won't be, but y'know)
  • Jezza's focus is undiminished I see, according to the Guardian's Politics Live agenda for today:

    "10.15am: Jeremy Corbyn holds a meeting in Ilkeston focusing on bus services."

    Lots of people use buses and its a service with difficulties:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47045872

    Bus usage gets very little media attention (or government money) compared to say London based rail lines.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    The GE predictions were not an underestimation of Corbyn. It was an overestimation of May. Corbyn apologists also forget one thing, even though May was inept, he still lost.
    I am not a Corby apologist, or a Tory.

    But, if I was up against Corby, I would be very, very wary. He can make promises (e.g., on tuition fees or social care) that are highly seductive even if not properly costed.

    And, his basic point -- that the UK has become more unequal over the last twenty years -- is right.

    There are empty second homes and and there are people living the streets. It is very seductive to say let's house the people in the empty homes.

    As always, if moderate politicians don't listen and don't fix the problems, then voters move to the extremes.

    In that sense, Corby is the same story as Brexit. And, though the moderaes can't understand it, Brexit won. I can easily envisage Corby winning.

    On Brexit, I think Corby has played a blinder. He just needs to continue getting Leavers and Remainers to believe he is on their side until March 29th.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    What do JLR mean by 'battery assembly centre' ?
    they assemble batteries ( power packs )
    But will they manufacture the batteries themselves ?
    (Power packs contain thousands of them.)
    yes, thats their intention. The UK has quite a lot riding on powertrain as we produce way more diesel and petrol engines than cars. its one of the positives on our BoP
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    Jezza's focus is undiminished I see, according to the Guardian's Politics Live agenda for today:

    "10.15am: Jeremy Corbyn holds a meeting in Ilkeston focusing on bus services."

    Lots of people use buses and its a service with difficulties:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47045872

    Bus usage gets very little media attention (or government money) compared to say London based rail lines.
    Jezza is touring marginals raising issues that it will be easy to say the Tories don't give a fig about even though they effect local people. The Tory party would be wise not to underestimate him, given last GE.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Richard, aye.

    Crossrail being delayed a year didn't exactly get huge amounts of sympathy up here.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    What do JLR mean by 'battery assembly centre' ?
    they assemble batteries ( power packs )
    But will they manufacture the batteries themselves ?
    (Power packs contain thousands of them.)
    I didn’t realise until recently that at the Tesla gigafactory, Tesla don’t make the battieres it is panasonic. Tesla just put them together into packs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,729

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    The GE predictions were not an underestimation of Corbyn. It was an overestimation of May. Corbyn apologists also forget one thing, even though May was inept, he still lost.
    It was an underestimation of how divisive May and Brexit were. May got more votes than Blair in 1997, but she also managed to unite all the opposition against her (helped by an inept performance from Tim Farron).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    Leave on time now at 4.1 on BF
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    matt said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barclays is moving €190bn (£166bn) of assets to Dublin because it "cannot wait any longer" to implement its Brexit contingency plan. The High Court, which has approved the move, says the move involves 5,000 clients. However, few jobs in London are expected to be affected.

    The business amounts to around 15% of the bank's £1.2 trillion in total assets and was previously conducted in the UK through branches across the EU.
    The plans will be in place by 29 March. The bank's Dublin operation is expected to double in size to 300 people as a result of the business being channelled though the Irish capital.

    So hang on, few jobs lost in London, but 300 extra in Dublin. Are these jobs being lost in "branches across the [non-UK] EU then?
    Perhaps more significant is the massive drop in investment in the motor industry ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
    How much of that is related to their entire business model seems to be in turmoil and new vehicles aren’t being launched because of a lack of regulatory certainty?
    A very good question - perhaps our resident motor industry experts would like to weigh in ?

    My own uninformed guess is that quite a lot of the drop in investment is 'business model in turmoil' related.

    But no one seems to be planning battery plants here, as opposed to Europe.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1NE0K5

    And, of course, Dyson, who aspires to be a player, has refocussed on Asia.
    JLR announced a battery factory this month in Warwickshire, Nissan UK already has a facility. UK activities are driven through a research centre in Coventry,
    What do JLR mean by 'battery assembly centre' ?
    they assemble batteries ( power packs )
    But will they manufacture the batteries themselves ?
    (Power packs contain thousands of them.)
    I didn’t realise until recently that at the Tesla gigafactory, Tesla don’t make the battieres it is panasonic. Tesla just put them together into packs.
    Interesting ! I suspect Tesla is far more vertically integrated than almost every other car company though. One negative of Brexit is that in the long term he probably won't open a factory here.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    Corbyn's policies are very popular. The reason they weren't examined is that the Tory campaign team knew that taking endlessly about your opponent's popular policies is not a recipe for success.
    I am not talking about the Tory campaign team. I am talking about the media.

    It literally takes 2 minutes to demonstrate that you can't fund a National Care Servixe for 3 billion pounds (the number in the manifesto). 2 minutes, and the ability to do some mental arithmetic.

    It is a claim on a par with 350 million for the NHS every week if we Brexit.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Re cars, at the next election Labour might have a problem in London when Sadiq's new emission charges hit more people than expected.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    The US has a President as Head of State, constitutionally May as PM is really the equivalent of Pelosi, leader of the largest party in the lower House so party intentions matter more than individual approval ratings here

    Not for the purpose of predicting likely electoral outcomes.
    Not necessarily, on personal approval ratings Callaghan would have beaten Thatcher in 1979
    Not correct. Maggie went into GE1979 with positive MORI numbers while Callaghan was in in minus territory

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/political-monitor-satisfaction-ratings-1977-1987
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219

    Re cars, at the next election Labour might have a problem in London when Sadiq's new emission charges hit more people than expected.

    I'm hoping this view persists amongst bettors closer to the time for more bank of Sadiq top ups, he is the biggest lock in political betting right now.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    The GE predictions were not an underestimation of Corbyn. It was an overestimation of May. Corbyn apologists also forget one thing, even though May was inept, he still lost.
    I am not a Corby apologist, or a Tory.

    But, if I was up against Corby, I would be very, very wary. He can make promises (e.g., on tuition fees or social care) that are highly seductive even if not properly costed.

    And, his basic point -- that the UK has become more unequal over the last twenty years -- is right.

    There are empty second homes and and there are people living the streets. It is very seductive to say let's house the people in the empty homes.

    As always, if moderate politicians don't listen and don't fix the problems, then voters move to the extremes.

    In that sense, Corby is the same story as Brexit. And, though the moderaes can't understand it, Brexit won. I can easily envisage Corby winning.

    On Brexit, I think Corby has played a blinder. He just needs to continue getting Leavers and Remainers to believe he is on their side until March 29th.
    yup

    while the mainstream MPs have been pratting about and making themselves look inept Corbyn has been sticking to the bread and butter issues. Hes trying to fatten the pig before market day.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,747

    I think it would be stupid to underestimate Corby.

    Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, Smith, the Blairites, May and the Tory Manifesto writers all did.

    I do think last time the mainstream media didn't think Corby could win and so he did benefit from little serious examination of his policies. He'll get more next critical examination time.

    But, does serious examination of policies actually move many votes?

    Most voters are not rational. They vote out of a combination of emotion and self-interest.

    So, my guess is (especially if he is up against May or a Vanilla Tory), Corby could do it again.

    The problem for the tories is there is a significant number of people who don’t feel the current globalised liberal economy works for them, hence brexit. Jezzas, like trump, the superficial message is attractive and the tories appear to zero new ideas while also unable to illustrate the benefits of the globalised capitalist system.

    For the past 20 years, all the political parties and the media have been onboard the current system (give or take an extra bit of tax being redirected). But pro globalism, pro large scale immigration, etc etc etc, but stoke man doesn’t think it is doing much for them.
    All else being equal, the next election would be a Tory slam dunk. The economy is recovering, austerity is easing off, unemployment is low, real wages are rising, and Labour is led by an incompetent lefty. It's the 1987 election but with Eric Heffer rather than Neil Kinnock.

    Problem is that Brexit means that things are very much not equal.
This discussion has been closed.