No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
I've been teaching English, French and (some) Russian to corporate arseholes for over 10 years and, in my experience, being a native English speaker doesn't really confer any advantage in business. You can do just about any job (maybe law would be an exception) at CERF B2 competency as long your command of the domain specific vocabulary is good. The same applies to French.
Being a native Russian speaker is a different matter. Very, very few foreigners achieve true fluency due to very subtle conventions of vernacular emphasis. I lived in Russia for 9 years and on my very best day I still sound very much like a foreigner. I could maybe pass for Polish...
The primacy of English, this discussion and me are shortly going to be rendered redundant by ubiquitous machine translation anyway.
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian. Maybe my mind is still thinking of the positive side of not being able to converse with the in-laws! That said, the father-in-law was an Air Force pilot, so we once spent an evening and a bottle of vodka talking about flying planes in hand gestures!
I’ll welcome machine translation when it can understand the dozen or more meanings of “Insh’Allah” used in Arabia!
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods.
I wouldn’t claim to know much about job creation, and there are certainly more qualified people commenting here. I have however studied languages, and I think it is underestimated the importance of the English language. English is a convergence of the Northern European Germanic languages and Latin based Romance languages. This amongst other things has led to the international business language being English (much to the displeasure of the French). It is one of the reasons that explains why people travel through all of Europe to get to U.K. for new life through Asylum etc.
Now I’m not trying to hark back to Empire here like some of the Brexiteers - this is a structural advantage not related to but assisted by Empire and spread of English through commonwealth and US influence.
As such I think the role of London as an international business centre will probably remain
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Bloody hell, Roger - it's not fascist to believe that being a native English speaker confers business advantages. It's just misguided. Don't let true fascists off the hook by waving the term around so freely. You owe Mr Royale an apology.
Like you I work all over the world (32 countries at the last count) and I meet Colonel Blimps like Casino Royale all too often. My work is freelance and very competitive and thus a survival of those who can do their jobs well. The bane of my life is meeting clowns who think being from England alone makes them more gifted than the locals.
Totally agree. It is embarrassing, profoundly ignorant and incredibly annoying. But it is not fascism!!
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
I’m not going to drop this. The right wing nutters are in Britain first, and their ilk. They are not part of the Tories. Some newspapers talk about similar things but that is just the nature of tabloids. If you put their extreme propaganda next to a tabloid they would be much more extreme. You can hardly say Anna Soubry does not invite the criticism - there are other pro European MPs who do not court the media like she does. She gets criticism because of it, not that this is right where it is plain abusive or threats.
For clarity in Labour, and Momentum which I count as affiiliated, the extremists are in the movement after the £3 entry program. It is people lol Williamson on the front bench. For the Tories it is like your third cousin once removed being racist, for Labour it is like your fiancée being racist and you are getting married next week because you like their views.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Abusing someone for being an illiterate and innumerate hypocrite is not the same as abusing her because she’s black and female. Tory supporters dish out plenty of the former to Ms Abbott.
May's red lines have defined the parameters advice in advance of announcing them and how much notice she took of any advice she was given.
It is probably accurate to say that she took little advice and little heed of any advice she did receive. Hence Ivan Rogers departure and the painted corner we’re now in.
I think a soft Norway style arrangement, outside the governing structures but subject.
Norway was closed off by a campaign of xenophobic lies. Arguing for it now is the dishonest Leavers’ attempt to have their cake and eat it; just another group who want compromise on their own terms.
you have a very bad case on Adonisitis
see a doctor
It’s weird. A Norway style agreement is a reasonable compromise. Yet remainers and leavers reject it most forcefully. For the bulk of people, for the bulk of their experience, been in the EEA but out of the customs union will make little difference. A customs agreement at some level would need to be negotiated that facilitates trade with Ireland and the rest of the Eu. That can be put together through the the two years wa. In the EEA the uk gets to piggy back onents, it binds the uk and the rest of the Eu to honour free movement of labour and mutual recognition of rights.
The Eu keep us in their influence, they’ll be happy with that, citizens can rs that other member states will be putting up as soon as we are off. We can chase the magical unicorns of trade deals if we so wish.
It is Cakism, in the sense that that is what other states like Norway Iceland and Switzerland already have.
It also largely puts to bed the whole damn thing. Norway as an end point not a step on a journey.
May is dying in a ditch to end free movement when Labour, who have never met an immigrant they haven’t wanted to shower with money will abandon as soon as they take control.
It’s cakism because it is the polar opposite of what Leave campaigned for. But you like it so you hope everyone is going to forget that inconvenient fact.
Leave are not a government. They were a campaigning group. A group that no government should consider themselves bound by. The result was to leave, that’s it, leave. You can use whatever inference you want.
I voted leave, but made no assumption that we would be leaving the single market. I didn’t think any pm would be irresponsible enough to do so. I don’t like the EU, but I don’t want to stop buying and selling widgets with them as easily as we currently do. I never cheerleaded the leave campaign, supported them or delivered a leaflet for them.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
I've been teaching English, French and (some) Russian to corporate arseholes for over 10 years and, in my experience, being a native English speaker doesn't really confer any advantage in business. You can do just about any job (maybe law would be an exception) at CERF B2 competency as long your command of the domain specific vocabulary is good. The same applies to French.
Being a native Russian speaker is a different matter. Very, very few foreigners achieve true fluency due to very subtle conventions of vernacular emphasis. I lived in Russia for 9 years and on my very best day I still sound very much like a foreigner. I could maybe pass for Polish...
The primacy of English, this discussion and me are shortly going to be rendered redundant by ubiquitous machine translation anyway.
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian. Maybe my mind is still thinking of the positive side of not being able to converse with the in-laws! That said, the father-in-law was an Air Force pilot, so we once spent an evening and a bottle of vodka talking about flying planes in hand gestures!
I’ll welcome machine translation when it can understand the dozen or more meanings of “Insh’Allah” used in Arabia!
I discovered last night (while learning Hungarian) that Pasternak means parsnip. Doctor Zhivago will never seem quite the same.
No real interest either, I have something of a natural aversion to countries that are North and South (or East West but it seems rarer) from when I was young, why not be united, but then I would be more than happy for Ireland to be united within the UK and then happier still for us to all be united within a larger construct which is maybe somewhat the case in the EU.
I guess you must deplore that much of your leader's parliamentary career was hugely interested in, not to say obsessed with, the construct of Ireland as a nation. Of course as a late convert to political realism, Corbyn (as with so many other areas) has learned to keep his trap shut on the issue.
Some of what Britain did in N. Ireland was terrible and deserved attention, my natural lean would probably be for the country to be united but it isn't my number one issue.
Not sure why that would lead to me deploring him... Would you deplore the SNP if a few decades ago if it spent some time on an issue you sorta agreed with but wasn't your first priority?
You've mixed up leaders and parties in your comparison. Jim Sillars is (assuming he's still a member) on the left of the SNP, which I sorta agree with. He also supports Brexit being undemocratically imposed on Scotland. If he was SNP leader I'd deplore him even more than I do now.
You sorta agree with 'Brexit being undemocratically imposed on Scotland' it is happening a few decades ago and it isn't an issue you care too much about?
Just from the way you wrote it it doesn't sound like you do.... also Brexit is happening now not a couple of decades ago.
Imagine Nicola Sturgeon supported a plastic bag tax a couple of decades ago, you agree with the idea but it isn't an issue you care deeply about. Would you now deplore Nicola Sturgeon for that reason?!
It just doesn't make much sense, I didn't state earlier that I hate the idea of N. Ireland reunited with the rest of Ireland to clarify...
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
I've been teaching English, French and (some) Russian to corporate arseholes for over 10 years and, in my experience, being a native English speaker doesn't really confer any advantage in business. You can do just about any job (maybe law would be an exception) at CERF B2 competency as long your command of the domain specific vocabulary is good. The same applies to French.
Being a native Russian speaker is a different matter. Very, very few foreigners achieve true fluency due to very subtle conventions of vernacular emphasis. I lived in Russia for 9 years and on my very best day I still sound very much like a foreigner. I could maybe pass for Polish...
The primacy of English, this discussion and me are shortly going to be rendered redundant by ubiquitous machine translation anyway.
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian. Maybe my mind is still thinking of the positive side of not being able to converse with the in-laws! That said, the father-in-law was an Air Force pilot, so we once spent an evening and a bottle of vodka talking about flying planes in hand gestures!
I’ll welcome machine translation when it can understand the dozen or more meanings of “Insh’Allah” used in Arabia!
Have become fluent in French so I can understand my partner better and do ok in german, Farsi and chinese. It helps in business but not critical. It does help understand personality and culture.
The backstop represents an unusually favourable position for the UK, not one in which the EU would want us staying indefinitely, and its detail represents something of a negotiating success for the PM. It's her lack of strategy for landing the deal and her inability to involve and then sell to her colleagues (edit/ coupled with their intransigence, as Edmund says) that have led to the crisis, not any overreach by the EU. It is in all of our interests to make sure the settlement protects the fragile peace in Ireland and not consequential on some evil intent by our neighbours.
Therefore I don't buy Alastair's lead at all. Although the historical stuff about Turkey, about which I was broadly aware having read the Mandolin guy's other books, is interesting and little known.
This is one of the most frustrating things about the whole situation. If not framed universally as something that the EU desires that "traps" the UK into the customs union in perpetuity, it would be realised that the backstop is actually something far more desirable to the UK than the EU. It is in many ways only the fetish that "no deal is nothing to fear" that prevents this from being recognised.
Because May's "deal" is by no means the end state - there are significant negotiations on future trading relationships that still need to be done and have barely commenced. Without the backstop, the potential for no deal simply comes around again in 2-3 years time - with all the hard brexiteers claiming that the EU are offering us a shit deal and the whole current scenario repeating itself. The backstop takes no deal off the table, and allows sensible negotiations with a lesser threat of blackmail being played on both sides.
If this is the case how come an unwillingness to time limit it? That might be enough to save it.
Whether it
And by the way - what is the period attached to this "time limit" that would make it acceptable? 1 yr, 2yrs, 5yrs, 10?
I think it’s the indefinite aspect of it that makes it unpalatable to so many. We become tied into something with perpetuity.
There was a report the DUP could accept a 10 year limit, though usually the DUP deny reports they are softening. But given no one claims to want the backstop I truly do not understand why the EU won't bend on that point. I get it politically for those who look forward to no deal, but given everyone's comments about the border defending to the death a backstop which will cause what it's supposed to prevent just seems dumb. Why is it better to definitely go down that route than maybe in 10 years? Yes, cannot rely on a promise it'll be sorted out later and all that, but certain disaster now vs possibly a decade from now?
It is probably accurate to say that she took little advice and little heed of any advice she did receive. Hence Ivan Rogers departure and the painted corner we’re now in.
I think a soft Norway style arrangement, outside the governing structures but subject.
Norway was closed off by a campaign of xenophobic lies. Arguing for it now is the dishonest Leavers’ attempt to have their cake and eat it; just another group who want compromise on their own terms.
you have a very bad case on Adonisitis
see a doctor
It’s weird. A Norway style agreement is a reasonable compromise. Yet remainers and leavers reject it most forcefully. For the bulk of people, for the bulk of their experience, been in the EEA but out of the customs union will make little difference. A customs agreement at some level would need to be negotiated that facilitates trade with Ireland and the rest of the Eu. That can be put together through the the two years wa. In the EEA the uk gets to piggy back onents, it binds the uk and the rest of the Eu to honour free movement of labour and mutual recognition of rights.
The Eu keep us in their influence, they’ll be happy with that, citizens can rs that other member states will be putting up as soon as we are off. We can chase the magical unicorns of trade deals if we so wish.
It is Cakism, in the sense that that is what other states like Norway Iceland and Switzerland already have.
It also largely puts to bed the whole damn thing. Norway as an end point not a step on a journey.
May is dying in a ditch to end free movement when Labour, who have never met an immigrant they haven’t wanted to shower with money will abandon as soon as they take control.
It’s cakism because it is the polar opposite of what Leave campaigned for. But you like it so you hope everyone is going to forget that inconvenient fact.
Leave are not a government. They were a campaigning group. A group that no government should consider themselves bound by. The result was to leave, that’s it, leave. You can use whatever inference you want.
I voted leave, but made no assumption that we would be leaving the single market. I didn’t think any pm would be irresponsible enough to do so. I don’t like the EU, but I don’t want to stop buying and selling widgets with them as easily as we currently do. I never cheerleaded the leave campaign, supported them or delivered a leaflet for them.
Tough shit then. You’re as buggered as the rest of us by the Leave campaign but you were dumb enough to vote for it.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, it means that anyone who can speak English can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't be so utterly ridiculous. I travel extensively for my work - in the US, Europe and Asia. I am speaking from personal experience. We organise conferences in multiple countries - most recently in Brazil, China and Japan - and do do them all in English. Why? Because it is the language in our market that everyone speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
What happens if Ireland does nothing in the case of a No Deal and leaves the border as it is? Clearly it would make life easier for the Irish, but how would it help the UK in practical terms?
It would mean we could also agree to leave the border as it is, completely obviating the need for the backstop language in the Withdrawal Agreement.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situa
What's fascinating
I Asylum etc.
Now I influence.
As remain
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
English and may speak it it to a very high standard - even in France! I remember when I lived in Spain many years ago knowledge of English outside the big cities was almost non-existent. That has changed dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
No, it means that anyone who can speak English can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
In my experience being a native English speaker offers no advantage whatsoever. It is at best a mild curiosity. International English with all its grammar and accent quirks is the lingua Franca.
Wrong again. Another depressive talking down his country and the truth of how it's perceived.
No, my experience differs to yours. Maybe it’s an industry thing. But in my world native English is at most a mild curiosity.
Oh and this has nothing to do with country. Brits represent a minority of native English speakers.
British English carries a prestige (or Queen's English, if you prefer) over and above native speakers in Canada or Australia.
We might just have to agree to disagree on this.
Most non-native speakers cannot tell the difference between English accents. In fact, many non-English people struggle with it - just as you and I would struggle to differentiate between a Derry and a Belfast accent, but both would be as clear as day to Mr Brooke.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
What happens if Ireland does nothing in the case of a No Deal and leaves the border as it is? Clearly it would make life easier for the Irish, but how would it help the UK in practical terms?
I have no idea, the whole issue has hugely confused me, I am just going on the widely commented on negative impacts for us and them, which if they believe they don't seem to care about.
If they might well just leave it as is then the whole thing looks even more manufactured an outrage and thus even more reasonable to be flexible on.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Taken at face value, it is difficult to understand the Irish official position unless they don't believe no deal will happen. Because, sans the backstop, having a withdrawal agreement and transition period in place is obviously better for them than having neither. I don't think anyone disputes that, do they? So the position that it's "backstop" or no deal doesn't make logical sense (ignoring the political cost of backing down). The only other interpretation is that they don't really think the backstop is necessary to maintain the absence of a hard border in Northern Ireland, although that doesn't resolve the problem that a hard border with the rest of the UK causes them.
Oh and just glancing over at an ST article. Apparently we have plans for invoking martial law. Brexit really is going swimmingly.
*if* there is rioting in the streets
I would be very surprised - Brexit or no Brexit - if there wasn’t a contingency plan somewhere in a drawer on martial law to quell rioting
Especially how piss poor the authorities were with dealing with the rioting in 2010. There was clearly no real plans of how to deal with widespread disorder. I would have hoped the government / MET had since devised plans (regardless of brexit) in the case that there was some attempt at a repeat.
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
I’m not going to drop this. The right wing nutters are in Britain first, and their ilk. They are not part of the Tories. Some newspapers talk about similar things but that is just the nature of tabloids. If you put their extreme propaganda next to a tabloid they would be much more extreme. You can hardly say Anna Soubry does not invite the criticism - there are other pro European MPs who do not court the media like she does. She gets criticism because of it, not that this is right where it is plain abusive or threats.
For clarity in Labour, and Momentum which I count as affiiliated, the extremists are in the movement after the £3 entry program. It is people lol Williamson on the front bench. For the Tories it is like your third cousin once removed being racist, for Labour it is like your fiancée being racist and you are getting married next week because you like their views.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Did Labour explain their methodology for that stat?
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What I think is clear is that our present government and indeed our PM have done a very, very poor job to date. They have been disunited, secretive, incompetent, weak and unfocused. That cannot be the approach for the next stage. We need people in charge who have some concept of what they are doing. Finding people like that is not looking straightforward at the moment. If May moves on, as she surely must, is there a way back for Osborne? I would like a team of him and Mandelson to lead a technical team that negotiates our trade agreement. We will get a better deal and a better relationship with the EU going forward without the resentments that Alastair fears.
Mandelson might be a good idea but Osborne ???
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods.
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The thing about languages is that they can be learned and the fact that English is a universal language actually makes the fact we speak it a lot less important! Across the world young people are becoming familiar with English and may speak it it to a very high standard - even in France! I remember when I lived in Spain many years ago knowledge of English outside the big cities was almost non-existent. That has changed dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Ahh the inevitable ignorant commentm. Firstly not sure how you can understand the word ‘proper’ as meaning fascist. The reason so many come to work in service industries here is so that they can work and learn English. I have never met someone who has worked in the service industry abroad in order to improve their prospects in a career outside of hospitality. On the other hand I have met plenty of Europeans normally coming here to learn English but work in hospitality in order to improve their prospects in all forms of business
A hole in your education then. The Institute de francais in Villefranche invariably has American students who are aiming for a career in the diplomatic servce. Also a lesser number of Chinese and Japanese students with the same purpose. Even the Queen of Norway so obviously there are no limits to non-waiters who want to learn 'proper French'.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
What happens if Ireland does nothing in the case of a No Deal and leaves the border as it is? Clearly it would make life easier for the Irish, but how would it help the UK in practical terms?
I have no idea, the whole issue has hugely confused me, I am just going on the widely commented on negative impacts for us and them, which if they believe they don't seem to care about.
If they might well just leave it as is then the whole thing looks even more manufactured an outrage and thus even more reasonable to be flexible on.
My guess is that is where the fudge will be should push come to shove. The Irish will not do anything and will carry on as normal. In practical terms, that will help them, but it will not help us. We will still be facing all the problems that No Deal brings and we would still have to sign up to the backstop if we wanted to do a deal.
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
I’m not going to drop this. The right wing nutters are in Britain first, and their ilk. They are not part of the Tories. Some newspapers talk about similar things but that is just the nature of tabloids. If you put their extreme propaganda next to a tabloid they would be much more extreme. You can hardly say Anna Soubry does not invite the criticism - there are other pro European MPs who do not court the media like she does. She gets criticism because of it, not that this is right where it is plain abusive or threats.
For clarity in Labour, and Momentum which I count as affiiliated, the extremists are in the movement after the £3 entry program. It is people lol Williamson on the front bench. For the Tories it is like your third cousin once removed being racist, for Labour it is like your fiancée being racist and you are getting married next week because you like their views.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Abusing someone for being an illiterate and innumerate hypocrite is not the same as abusing her because she’s black and female. Tory supporters dish out plenty of the former to Ms Abbott.
Yes the silly Black woman is always getting laughed at like the other day when she claimed Labour weren't 6 points behind in the polls. Luckily the Tories were there to correct her with their excellent mathematical skills where the average involves ignoring all the other polls and just listening to the one with the big Tory lead.
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
I’m not going to drop this. The right wing nutters are in Britain first, and their ilk. They are not part of the Tories. Some newspapers talk about similar things but that is just the nature of tabloids. If you put their extreme propaganda next to a tabloid they would be much more extreme. You can hardly say Anna Soubry does not invite the criticism - there are other pro European MPs who do not court the media like she does. She gets criticism because of it, not that this is right where it is plain abusive or threats.
For clarity in Labour, and Momentum which I count as affiiliated, the extremists are in the movement after the £3 entry program. It is people lol Williamson on the front bench. For the Tories it is like your third cousin once removed being racist, for Labour it is like your fiancée being racist and you are getting married next week because you like their views.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Did Labour explain their methodology for that stat?
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
Labour?!
Is that a pet nickname you have for Amnesty International?
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
The EU in general and Ireland in particular seem to have made the same mistake in negotiating the terms of Brexit as Venizelos made. The best outcome is one that will actually stick, not the one with nominally the most favourable terms. It has been apparent for a very long time that Theresa May is not in secure control of Parliament and to proceed as if she is was reckless
You talk a lot of sense, by which I mean I agree. Though while I liked Cameron I'm not sure many would go for your last sentence in your header!
The EU is currently taking the line that it is for Britain to come up with a new position. Certainly Britain needs to do that
Thing is, backing.
I certainly share much of Mr Meeks' concern both at the prospect of a no deal on relations, for both sides (which makes the occasional person's glee that the EU is not sorting out our mess rather misplaced, since the point is not that it is good for us, but good for them for there to be a deal) and that even if the deal scrapes through it will be a long and bitter legacy.
But the bus.
Setting aside for the moment that the U.K. has not handled this process well
Do you not think it extraordinary that a group of mature western democracies cannot agree a mutually sensible separation?
Politicians should be able to look beyond the “but they told us to fuck off” line some on here like
The fundamental strategic interest of the West is having a close relationship between the EU and the U.K. with both being prosperous. The EU (and Ireland - internal politics with Varadker worrying about being outflanked by SF - is hugely to blame for this possible mess).
May's red lines have defined the parameters within which discussions have taken place. She ruled out a lot of creative thinking by stating in advance there were certain things that the UK would not contemplate. I wonder if she took advice in advance of announcing them and how much notice she took of any advice she was given.
I think she took the advice of EU leaders.
For about 9 months after the referendum result all we heard from Europe was that the four freedoms were indivisible and we couldn't be in the Single Market and end FoM. May decided that honouring the result meant ending FoM and therefore on EU leaders red lines that meant leaving the SM.
If EU leaders were more flexible and willing to consider having a Single Market without FoM then May would have probably acted differently. But they didn't.
I want a unicorn, unfortunately nature hasn't been flexible and willing enough to give me one.
The backstop represents an unusually favourable position for the UK, not one in which the
Therefore I don't buy Alastair's lead at all. Although the historical stuff about Turkey, about which I was broadly aware having read the Mandolin guy's other books, is interesting and little known.
This is one of the most frustrating things about the whole situation. If not framed universally as something that the EU desires that "traps" the UK into the customs union in perpetuity, it would be realised that the backstop is actually something far more desirable to the UK than the EU. It is in many ways only the fetish that "no deal is nothing to fear" that prevents this from being recognised.
Because May's "deal" is by no means the end state - there are significant negotiations on future trading relationships that still need to be done and have barely commenced. Without the backstop, the potential for no deal simply comes around again in 2-3 years time - with all the hard brexiteers claiming that the EU are offering us a shit deal and the whole current scenario repeating itself. The backstop takes no deal off the table, and allows sensible negotiations with a lesser threat of blackmail being played on both sides.
If this is the case how come an unwillingness to time limit it? That might be enough to save it.
Whether it
And by the way - what is the period attached to this "time limit" that would make it acceptable? 1 yr, 2yrs, 5yrs, 10?
I think it’s the indefinite aspect of it that makes it unpalatable to so many. We become tied into something with perpetuity.
There was a report the DUP could accept a 10 year limit, though usually the DUP deny reports they are softening. But given no one claims to want the backstop I truly do not understand why the EU won't bend on that point. I get it politically for those who look forward to no deal, but given everyone's comments about the border defending to the death a backstop which will cause what it's supposed to prevent just seems dumb. Why is it better to definitely go down that route than maybe in 10 years? Yes, cannot rely on a promise it'll be sorted out later and all that, but certain disaster now vs possibly a decade from now?
Especially as a government could easily extend it quietly in 10 years. That, to me, suggests they see it as a trump card in trade negotiations (as Macron carelessly let slip)
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods.
I wouldn’t claim to know much about job creation, and there are certainly more qualified people commenting here. I have however studied languages, and I think it is underestimated the importance of the English language. English is a convergence of the Northern European Germanic languages and Latin based Romance languages. This amongst other things has led to the international business language being English (much to the displeasure of the French). It is one of the reasons that explains why people travel through all of Europe to get to U.K. for new life through Asylum etc.
Now I’m not trying to hark back to Empire here like some of the Brexiteers - this is a structural advantage not related to but assisted by Empire and spread of English through commonwealth and US influence.
As such I think the role of London as an international business centre will probably remain
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Bloody hell, Roger - it's not fascist to believe that being a native English speaker confers business advantages. It's just misguided. Don't let true fascists off the hook by waving the term around so freely. You owe Mr Royale an apology.
Like you I work all over the world (32 countries at the last count) and I meet Colonel Blimps like Casino Royale all too often. My work is freelance and very competitive and thus a survival of those who can do their jobs well. The bane of my life is meeting clowns who think being from England alone makes them more gifted than the locals.
Lol. You're the biggest prat on the website, and profoundly ignorant.
But, like I said, we just pity you. Noone takes a word you say seriously.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
What I think is clear is that our present government and indeed our PM have done a very, very poor job to date. They have been disunited, secretive, incompetent, weak and unfocused. That cannot be the approach for the next stage. We need people in charge who have some concept of what they are doing. Finding people like that is not looking straightforward at the moment. If May moves on, as she surely must, is there a way back for Osborne? I would like a team of him and Mandelson to lead a technical team that negotiates our trade agreement. We will get a better deal and a better relationship with the EU going forward without the resentments that Alastair fears.
Mandelson might be a good idea but Osborne ???
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
Osborne ran the UK government through the coalition and then Tory majority ruthlessly and efficiently. Of course not everything went right but considering what he inherited the results were little short of astonishing. If you think that happened without any attention to details, well, you're welcome to your opinion.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
Dare I suggest that the truth is somewhere between your two extreme positions?
The most important thing in business dealings is to understand and be understood, even when what’s under discussion is very complex and detailed.
Why would I be upset that Labour does not condone racism against BAME groups? I wish that were the case.
Why would an anti-racist party allow Chris Williamson to sit on its benches in the Commons or allow Jim Sheridan to remain a member?
Why would it allow all those MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy?
For Why?
Look, a squirrel.
Can you name me any Labour MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy? I agree that all those who did should be thrown out of the party.
Why is Jim Sheridan still a member of the Labour party? Why is Chris Williamson still a Labour MP. Why was Jenny Rathbone allowed back into Labour?
It is true that I would love an anti-racist Labour party and that I opposed Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in 2015 and 2016 - and continue to oppose it now - because he has stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for decades. I make absolutely no apologies for that. I would have no problem at all with an anti-racist Labour leader who wanted to nationalise the railways and other utilities. But if you want to pretend otherwise, so be it.
Why do you support so passionately some of the MPs who didn't oppose racist legislation and oppose so passionately those who supported it?
It is almost as if this racism thing is a cover, you actively want people back in charge who were happy to see racist legislation pass that deeply affect many people's lives because you disagree with the politics of those who oppose the racism and now use racism as an excuse.
Look if stopping the left is more important to you than opposing racism then fair enough it just isn't a very moral argument. I myself couldn't support racism in such a way which is why I only started voting for Labour in 2017.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
Dare I suggest that the truth is somewhere between your two extreme positions?
The most important thing in business dealings is to understand and be understood, even when what’s under discussion is very complex and detailed.
Well, indeed. I am not sure how my position is extreme, though.
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Bloody hell, Roger - it's not fascist to believe that being a native English speaker confers business advantages. It's just misguided. Don't let true fascists off the hook by waving the term around so freely. You owe Mr Royale an apology.
Like you I work all over the world (32 countries at the last count) and I meet Colonel Blimps like Casino Royale all too often. My work is freelance and very competitive and thus a survival of those who can do their jobs well. The bane of my life is meeting clowns who think being from England alone makes them more gifted than the locals.
Lol. You're the biggest prat on the website, and profoundly ignorant.
But, like I said, we just pity you. Noone takes a word you say seriously.
How about a break and a nice cup of tea? You're better than this.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG. By proposing a Withdrawal Agreement with no backstop they will not only not get a new Deal from the EU nor quite possibly even the No Deal they say they would be happy with but the Commons voting for a an extension of Article 50 and a permanent Customs Union or even a Remain v Deal referendum and the EU agreeing to that which would be an utter disaster for the ERG and hard Brexiteers
What I think is clear is that our present government and indeed our PM have done a very, very poor job to date. They have been disunited, secretive, incompetent, weak and unfocused. That cannot be the approach for the next stage. We need people in charge who have some concept of what they are doing. Finding people like that is not looking straightforward at the moment. If May moves on, as she surely must, is there a way back for Osborne? I would like a team of him and Mandelson to lead a technical team that negotiates our trade agreement. We will get a better deal and a better relationship with the EU going forward without the resentments that Alastair fears.
Mandelson might be a good idea but Osborne ???
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
Osborne ran the UK government through the coalition and then Tory majority ruthlessly and efficiently. Of course not everything went right but considering what he inherited the results were little short of astonishing. If you think that happened without any attention to details, well, you're welcome to your opinion.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
An interesting story doing the rounds today on nuclear power - Bill Gates offering $1bn of his own cash and $1bn of other private investment for development of small-scale molten salt reactors.
There’s a great opportunity there to get in at the bottom of this technology if, as expected, the US Congress can’t agree on it (because they can’t agree on anything).
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian.
Very few native English speakers get anywhere in Russian without classroom instruction and tutoring. You're coming from English which has almost no declension to a strongly declined language with a different alphabet, no present tense of the verb "to be" (with a few exceptions) and no definite or indefinite articles.
If you really want to learn it do a total immersion course. After my Iraq PTSD meltdown I did 12 weeks Russian language immersion in SPb for something to do and I ended up staying Russia for nearly a decade . It was very good and AFAICR pretty cheap.
Why would I be upset that Labour does not condone racism against BAME groups? I wish that were the case.
Why would an anti-racist party allow Chris Williamson to sit on its benches in the Commons or allow Jim Sheridan to remain a member?
Why would it allow all those MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy?
For Why?
Look, a squirrel.
Can you name me any Labour MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy? I agree that all those who did should be thrown out of the party.
Why is Jim Sheridan still a member of the Labour party? Why is Chris Williamson still a Labour MP. Why was Jenny Rathbone allowed back into Labour?
It is true that I would love an anti-racist Labour party and that I opposed Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in 2015 and 2016 - and continue to oppose it now - because he has stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for decades. I make absolutely no apologies for that. I would have no problem at all with an anti-racist Labour leader who wanted to nationalise the railways and other utilities. But if you want to pretend otherwise, so be it.
Why do you support so passionately some of the MPs who didn't oppose racist legislation and oppose so passionately those who supported it?
It is almost as if this racism thing is a cover, you actively want people back in charge who were happy to see racist legislation pass that deeply affect many people's lives because you disagree with the politics of those who oppose the racism and now use racism as an excuse.
Look if stopping the left is more important to you than opposing racism then fair enough it just isn't a very moral argument. I myself couldn't support racism in such a way which is why I only started voting for Labour in 2017.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
My eyes and ears are fully open. I just have very different experiences to you and object to the arrogance with which you assert you are right.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG. By proposing a Withdrawal Agreement with no backstop they will not only not get a new Deal from the EU nor quite possibly even the No Deal they say they would be happy with but the Commons voting for a an extension of Article 50 and a permanent Customs Union or even a Remain v Deal referendum and the EU agreeing to that which would be an utter disaster for the ERG and hard Brexiteers
Is that really unicornism? Looks like pretty basic stupidity to me.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods.
Now I’m not trying to hark back to Empire here like some of the Brexiteers - this is a structural advantage not related to but assisted by Empire and spread of English through commonwealth and US influence.
As such I think the role of London as an international business centre will probably remain
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Bloody hell, Roger - it's not fascist to believe that being a native English speaker confers business advantages. It's just misguided. Don't let true fascists off the hook by waving the term around so freely. You owe Mr Royale an apology.
Like you I work all over the world (32 countries at the last count) and I meet Colonel Blimps like Casino Royale all too often. My work is freelance and very competitive and thus a survival of those who can do their jobs well. The bane of my life is meeting clowns who think being from England alone makes them more gifted than the locals.
Totally agree. It is embarrassing, profoundly ignorant and incredibly annoying. But it is not fascism!!
I thought he might be offended if I called him 'Embrrassing profoundly ignorant and incredibly annoying'!.
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
I’m not going to drop this. The right wing nutters are in Britain first, and their ilk. They are not part of the Tories. Some newspapers talk about similar things but that is just the nature of tabloids. If you put their extreme propaganda next to a tabloid they would be much more extreme. You can hardly say Anna Soubry does not invite the criticism - there are other pro European MPs who do not court the media like she does. She gets criticism because of it, not that this is right where it is plain abusive or threats.
For clarity in Labour, and Momentum which I count as affiiliated, the extremists are in the movement after the £3 entry program. It is people lol Williamson on the front bench. For the Tories it is like your third cousin once removed being racist, for Labour it is like your fiancée being racist and you are getting married next week because you like their views.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Did Labour explain their methodology for that stat?
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
Labour?!
Is that a pet nickname you have for Amnesty International?
I’ve only seen Labour politicians refer to the claim that Abbott gets more than half the abuse aimed at all women MPs (sounds like carefully selecting your sample).
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Bloody hell, Roger - it's not fascist to believe that being a native English speaker confers business advantages. It's just misguided. Don't let true fascists off the hook by waving the term around so freely. You owe Mr Royale an apology.
Like you I work all over the world (32 countries at the last count) and I meet Colonel Blimps like Casino Royale all too often. My work is freelance and very competitive and thus a survival of those who can do their jobs well. The bane of my life is meeting clowns who think being from England alone makes them more gifted than the locals.
Lol. You're the biggest prat on the website, and profoundly ignorant.
But, like I said, we just pity you. Noone takes a word you say seriously.
How about a break and a nice cup of tea? You're better than this.
Roger's insults are like water off a duck's back; I just enjoy telling him how much I don't care.
My experience of PB is that only SeanT does personal insults well - and then only in those fleeting moments when the booze has electrified his brain rather than consumed it!! The rest of us are just not very good at it because we do not have his skills as a writer.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods.
Now I’m not trying to hark back to Empire here like some of the Brexiteers - this is a structural advantage not related to but assisted by Empire and spread of English through commonwealth and US influence.
As such I think the role of London as an international business centre will probably remain
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The dramatically.
Nonsense. It means English people can communicate and get work or do business anywhere in the world. That is a big advantage for us.
Being a native speaker of "proper" English also carries prestige and weight.
If you need the 'prestige and weight' of speaking "proper English" then you are a sad human being almost certainly without talent.
Oh ...and a fascist to boot.
Bloody hell, Roger - it's not fascist to believe that being a native English speaker confers business advantages. It's just misguided. Don't let true fascists off the hook by waving the term around so freely. You owe Mr Royale an apology.
Like you I work all over the world (32 countries at the last count) and I meet Colonel Blimps like Casino Royale all too often. My work is freelance and very competitive and thus a survival of those who can do their jobs well. The bane of my life is meeting clowns who think being from England alone makes them more gifted than the locals.
Totally agree. It is embarrassing, profoundly ignorant and incredibly annoying. But it is not fascism!!
I thought he might be offended if I called him 'Embrrassing profoundly ignorant and incredibly annoying'!.
I don't find anything you say offensive.
I can only be offended by serious people who have a modicum of perception and competence.
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian.
Very few native English speakers get anywhere in Russian without classroom instruction and tutoring. You're coming from English which has almost no declension to a strongly declined language with a different alphabet, no present tense of the verb "to be" (with a few exceptions) and no definite or indefinite articles.
If you really want to learn it do a total immersion course. After my Iraq PTSD meltdown I did 12 weeks Russian language immersion in SPb for something to do and I ended up staying Russia for nearly a decade . It was very good and AFAICR pretty cheap.
Yes, I’ve heard similar from others that the only way is to completely immerse yourself in it for a period of time.
I think the break point for me will be if we are blessed with a family in the future, then I’ll have to understand or the wife and child will have their own secret way of talking!
What I think is clear is that our present government and indeed our PM have done a very, very poor job to date. They have been disunited, secretive, incompetent, weak and unfocused. That cannot be the approach for the next stage. We need people in charge who have some concept of what they are doing. Finding people like that is not looking straightforward at the moment. If May moves on, as she surely must, is there a way back for Osborne? I would like a team of him and Mandelson to lead a technical team that negotiates our trade agreement. We will get a better deal and a better relationship with the EU going forward without the resentments that Alastair fears.
Mandelson might be a good idea but Osborne ???
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
Osborne ran the UK government through the coalition and then Tory majority ruthlessly and efficiently. Of course not everything went right but considering what he inherited the results were little short of astonishing. If you think that happened without any attention to details, well, you're welcome to your opinion.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
An interesting story doing the rounds today on nuclear power - Bill Gates offering $1bn of his own cash and $1bn of other private investment for development of small-scale molten salt reactors.
There’s a great opportunity there to get in at the bottom of this technology if, as expected, the US Congress can’t agree on it (because they can’t agree on anything).
To me the truly incredible story in energy over the last 15 years has been the growth of renewables. Solar and wind have gone from being nice if expensive gestures to something that is capping the price at which oil and gas can be sold. I think that this has further to go in both waves and tides and the test for any other energy source is whether it is going to be competitive with them in 10-20 years time. Its a test that Hinkley fails quite spectacularly.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG.
Why would I be upset that Labour does not condone racism against BAME groups? I wish that were the case.
Why would an anti-racist party allow Chris Williamson to sit on its benches in the Commons or allow Jim Sheridan to remain a member?
Why would it allow all those MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy?
For Why?
Look, a squirrel.
Can you name me any Labour MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy? I agree that all those who did should be thrown out of the party.
Why is Jim Sheridan still a member of the Labour party? Why is Chris Williamson still a Labour MP. Why was Jenny Rathbone allowed back into Labour?
It is true that I would love an anti-racist Labour party and that I opposed Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in 2015 and 2016 - and continue to oppose it now - because he has stood shoulder to shoulder with anti-Semites for decades. I make absolutely no apologies for that. I would have no problem at all with an anti-racist Labour leader who wanted to nationalise the railways and other utilities. But if you want to pretend otherwise, so be it.
Why do you support so passionately some of the MPs who didn't oppose racist legislation and oppose so passionately those who supported it?
It is almost as if this racism thing is a cover, you actively want people back in charge who were happy to see racist legislation pass that deeply affect many people's lives because you disagree with the politics of those who oppose the racism and now use racism as an excuse.
Look if stopping the left is more important to you than opposing racism then fair enough it just isn't a very moral argument. I myself couldn't support racism in such a way which is why I only started voting for Labour in 2017.
Which MPs do I support passionately?
Who did you vote for before 2017 out of interest?
Those on the right of the party but I could imagine you doing some work for others in order to get the party rightwards, Smith maybe at a guess.
Abstention back till 2005 (said 2010 once on here I think which was wrong)
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Did Labour explain their methodology for that stat?
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
Labour?!
Is that a pet nickname you have for Amnesty International?
I’ve only seen Labour politicians refer to the claim that Abbott gets more than half the abuse aimed at all women MPs (sounds like carefully selecting your sample).
If it’s Amnesty then my question still stands
I couldn't tell you their exact methodology, you'd have to look it up. It is more to go on than Tories claiming it is Labour's fault or somehow the left are more abusive to woman on just their say so or by right wing headlines.
Also on foreign experience, I find that the people most interested in Brexit are Germans. Most are pretty anti, they are worried that losing the UK from the EU will be bad for the pro-market agenda. The conclusion for most Germans seems to be that brexit will leave both sides weaker and less relevant globally. The EU loses a nuclear power and UN security council member, the UK loses the heft of the EU to push it's diplomatic agenda. Another concern is that once the UK does take up WTO membership and gets seats on standards setting boards it will no longer just acquiesce to EU requirements and may push for more global alignment with the US.
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian.
Very few native English speakers get anywhere in Russian without classroom instruction and tutoring. You're coming from English which has almost no declension to a strongly declined language with a different alphabet, no present tense of the verb "to be" (with a few exceptions) and no definite or indefinite articles.
If you really want to learn it do a total immersion course. After my Iraq PTSD meltdown I did 12 weeks Russian language immersion in SPb for something to do and I ended up staying Russia for nearly a decade . It was very good and AFAICR pretty cheap.
Yes, I’ve heard similar from others that the only way is to completely immerse yourself in it for a period of time.
I think the break point for me will be if we are blessed with a family in the future, then I’ll have to understand or the wife and child will have their own secret way of talking!
My wife arrived in Russia from India not speaking one word of Russian but she studied like a demon and then, 9 months later, began a Dentistry degree taught in Russian. It can be dome!
Having said that Russian dental techniques are a close cousin to those of dry stone walling so perhaps a completely encompassing understanding of the language wasn't necessary.
Why would I be upset that Labour does not condone racism against BAME groups? I wish that were the case.
Why would an anti-racist party allow Chris Williamson to sit on its benches in the Commons or allow Jim Sheridan to remain a member?
Why would it allow all those MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy?
For Why?
Look, a squirrel.
Can you name me any Labour MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy? I agree that all those who did should be thrown out of the party.
Why is Jim Sheridan still a member of the Labour party? Why is Chris Williamson still a Labour MP. Why was Jenny Rathbone allowed back into Labour?
It iso be it.
Why do you support so passionately some of the MPs who didn't oppose racist legislation and oppose so passionately those who supported it?
It is almost as if this racism thing is a cover, you actively want people back in charge who were happy to see racist legislation pass that deeply affect many people's lives because you disagree with the politics of those who oppose the racism and now use racism as an excuse.
Look if stopping the left is more important to you than opposing racism then fair enough it just isn't a very moral argument. I myself couldn't support racism in such a way which is why I only started voting for Labour in 2017.
Which MPs do I support passionately?
Who did you vote for before 2017 out of interest?
Those on the right of the party but I could imagine you doing some work for others in order to get the party rightwards, Smith maybe at a guess.
Abstention back till 2005 (said 2010 once on here I think which was wrong)
Passionate support for Owen Smith!!! Seriously??? Wonderful stuff.
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG.
It's both (and May and Corbyn too)
Given Juncker's backing for a permanent Customs Union last night though and the fact 301 MPs voted for one last year a Corbyn style Brexit is probably the likeliest outcome now
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
My eyes and ears are fully open. I just have very different experiences to you and object to the arrogance with which you assert you are right.
Your lack of self-knowledge is one of the true joys of this site.
What I think is clear is that our present government and indeed our PM have done a very, very poor job to date. They have been disunited, secretive, incompetent, weak and unfocused. That cannot be the approach for the next stage. We need people in charge who have some concept of what they are doing. Finding people like that is not looking straightforward at the moment. If May moves on, as she surely must, is there a way back for Osborne? I would like a team of him and Mandelson to lead a technical team that negotiates our trade agreement. We will get a better deal and a better relationship with the EU going forward without the resentments that Alastair fears.
Mandelson might be a good idea but Osborne ???
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
Osborne ran the UK government through the coalition and then Tory majority ruthlessly and efficiently. Of course not everything went right but considering what he inherited the results were little short of astonishing. If you think that happened without any attention to details, well, you're welcome to your opinion.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
You're talking about short term tactics not long term strategies with their effects.
Policies such as student tuition fees, triple lock pensions and help to raise house prices helped the Conservatives tactically in the short term but are deeply damaging for the country (and the Conservatives) in the long term.
That's exactly the mentality we don't need in EU negotiations.
As to nuclear power stations, Osborne's fingerprints are all over it - google George Osborne Hinkley for evidence such as:
' The chancellor used his visit to China to secure support from Chinese investors despite reservations on the cost-effectiveness of the power plant '
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG. By proposing a Withdrawal Agreement with no backstop they will not only not get a new Deal from the EU nor quite possibly even the No Deal they say they would be happy with but the Commons voting for a an extension of Article 50 and a permanent Customs Union or even a Remain v Deal referendum and the EU agreeing to that which would be an utter disaster for the ERG and hard Brexiteers
Is that really unicornism? Looks like pretty basic stupidity to me.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
Osborne ran the UK government through the coalition and then Tory majority ruthlessly and efficiently. Of course not everything went right but considering what he inherited the results were little short of astonishing. If you think that happened without any attention to details, well, you're welcome to your opinion.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
An interesting story doing the rounds today on nuclear power - Bill Gates offering $1bn of his own cash and $1bn of other private investment for development of small-scale molten salt reactors.
There’s a great opportunity there to get in at the bottom of this technology if, as expected, the US Congress can’t agree on it (because they can’t agree on anything).
To me the truly incredible story in energy over the last 15 years has been the growth of renewables. Solar and wind have gone from being nice if expensive gestures to something that is capping the price at which oil and gas can be sold. I think that this has further to go in both waves and tides and the test for any other energy source is whether it is going to be competitive with them in 10-20 years time. Its a test that Hinkley fails quite spectacularly.
Absolutely, although there’s been a fair amount of subsidy and taxes on O&G to get there, we are now at the point where renewables are able to provide significant energy at low marginal cost and new developments can work without the subsidies.
Solar and nuclear are both going big in this part of the world, where they want to export what comes out of the ground, and the peak load is for air conditioning during the day rather than heating at night.
With hindsight Hinckley was the wrong project, I’m much more interested in Gates’ idea of molten salt and the town-scale reactors that Rolls-Royce have been working on, based on military naval technology.
Why would I be upset that Labour does not condone racism against BAME groups? I wish that were the case.
Why would an anti-racist party allow Chris Williamson to sit on its benches in the Commons or allow Jim Sheridan to remain a member?
Why would it allow all those MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy?
For Why?
Look, a squirrel.
Can you name me any Labour MPs who voted for the hostile environment policy? I agree that all those who did should be thrown out of the party.
Why is Jim Sheridan still a member of the Labour party? Why is Chris Williamson still a Labour MP. Why was Jenny Rathbone allowed back into Labour?
It iso be it.
Why do you support so passionately some of the MPs who didn't oppose racist legislation and oppose so passionately those who supported it?
It is almost as if this racism thing is a cover, you actively want people back in charge who were happy to see racist legislation pass that deeply affect many people's lives because you disagree with the politics of those who oppose the racism and now use racism as an excuse.
Look if stopping the left is more important to you than opposing racism then fair enough it just isn't a very moral argument. I myself couldn't support racism in such a way which is why I only started voting for Labour in 2017.
Which MPs do I support passionately?
Who did you vote for before 2017 out of interest?
Those on the right of the party but I could imagine you doing some work for others in order to get the party rightwards, Smith maybe at a guess.
Abstention back till 2005 (said 2010 once on here I think which was wrong)
Passionate support for Owen Smith!!! Seriously??? Wonderful stuff.
Who did you vote for before 2005?
Read it again, those on the right of the party but I could imagine you doing some work for others ...... , Smith maybe. Not your a passionate supporter of but you would assist to beat Corbyn.
I voted in 2005, Lib Dem, before that didn't vote.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s totalad5
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
My eyes and ears are fully open. I just have very different experiences to you and object to the arrogance with which you assert you are right.
Your lack of self-knowledge is one of the true joys of this site.
My self-awareness is unmatched (I make much more money betting than you do) and my knowledge more extensive than yours.
Not my fault you can't bring yourself to admit it.
But if that fantasy brings some joy to you, I'm happy. You desperately need some in your life.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Did Labour explain their methodology for that stat?
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
Labour?!
Is that a pet nickname you have for Amnesty International?
I’ve only seen Labour politicians refer to the claim that Abbott gets more than half the abuse aimed at all women MPs (sounds like carefully selecting your sample).
If it’s Amnesty then my question still stands
I couldn't tell you their exact methodology, you'd have to look it up. It is more to go on than Tories claiming it is Labour's fault or somehow the left are more abusive to woman on just their say so or by right wing headlines.
I’d be very sceptical with regards to the abuse Abbott receives. I’ve seen plenty of criticism that she can’t add up and is incompetent - I think that is fairly accurate. I’ve also seen people claim it is because she is woman and black. If Labour frequently sent a white man to say exactly the same innumerate drivel I am sure they would see the same criticism. Abbott is the Grayling of the Left
Also on foreign experience, I find that the people most interested in Brexit are Germans. Most are pretty anti, they are worried that losing the UK from the EU will be bad for the pro-market agenda. The conclusion for most Germans seems to be that brexit will leave both sides weaker and less relevant globally. The EU loses a nuclear power and UN security council member, the UK loses the heft of the EU to push it's diplomatic agenda. Another concern is that once the UK does take up WTO membership and gets seats on standards setting boards it will no longer just acquiesce to EU requirements and may push for more global alignment with the US.
My experience is that most people are bemused and/or amused.
Cooper on Marr is it? I wonder if she'll have a decent answer as to why after this much time they won't be able to reach a conclusion on Brexit but yet more time means they will. Thoroughly dishonest person. Remain is an honourable position to hold, just state it openly, not this remain by the backdoor business.
I’m still trying and failing badly to learn Russian.
Very few native English speakers get anywhere in Russian without classroom instruction and tutoring. You're coming from English which has almost no declension to a strongly declined language with a different alphabet, no present tense of the verb "to be" (with a few exceptions) and no definite or indefinite articles.
If you really want to learn it do a total immersion course. After my Iraq PTSD meltdown I did 12 weeks Russian language immersion in SPb for something to do and I ended up staying Russia for nearly a decade . It was very good and AFAICR pretty cheap.
Yes, I’ve heard similar from others that the only way is to completely immerse yourself in it for a period of time.
I think the break point for me will be if we are blessed with a family in the future, then I’ll have to understand or the wife and child will have their own secret way of talking!
My wife arrived in Russia from India not speaking one word of Russian but she studied like a demon and then, 9 months later, began a Dentistry degree taught in Russian. It can be dome!
Having said that Russian dental techniques are a close cousin to those of dry stone walling so perhaps a completely encompassing understanding of the language wasn't necessary.
Ha, I’ve been to a Russian dentist and concur wholly with that sentiment.
I can also confirm that Russian training aircraft work the same as western ones - they stall and spin, and can be recovered in the same standard ways from those upsets. At least I think that was what the father-in-law was saying past the empty bottle of vodka in the middle of the table!
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
Good for him. I'm sure when everyone in France talks about May and Brexit they always remember to point out May is leading in some polls, level or only just behind in others.
Osborne ran the UK government through the coalition and then Tory majority ruthlessly and efficiently. Of course not everything went right but considering what he inherited the results were little short of astonishing. If you think that happened without any attention to details, well, you're welcome to your opinion.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
You're talking about short term tactics not long term strategies with their effects.
Policies such as student tuition fees, triple lock pensions and help to raise house prices helped the Conservatives tactically in the short term but are deeply damaging for the country (and the Conservatives) in the long term.
That's exactly the mentality we don't need in EU negotiations.
As to nuclear power stations, Osborne's fingerprints are all over it - google George Osborne Hinkley for evidence such as:
' The chancellor used his visit to China to secure support from Chinese investors despite reservations on the cost-effectiveness of the power plant '
Note that he manages to spell Hinkley wrong in that tweet.
And a Shadow Chancellor who was caught unawares by the recession does not do attention to detail.
So few anticipated the 2008 crash that they made a rather brilliant film about it. Keeping our housing market relatively stable was an absolutely essential element of keeping our banks solvent thereafter. If house prices had fallen 30% after 2010 no bank would have survived without further capital inputs from the State. Latterly his tax policies made BTL much less attractive which is desirable if home ownership is to be more widespread.
The policy of encouraging foreign investment when we were struggling to make adequate investment ourselves made sense if you wished to keep the economy growing/stable which he did. Had we done that internally there would have been a major reduction in consumption leading to a significant recession and loss of employment. You can make the argument that that is something we needed to do but no one can argue that Osborne's pro-employment policies have not worked beyond his wildest dreams. The terms of that investment were of course a matter for the decision makers at the time.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
Prospering is not the right word. They have fallen behind Brexit Britain in terms of economic growth, industry is sclerotic and the one major success story they have (Renault/Nissan) is about to be dismantled by the Japanese government. Macron overreached by claiming to be the force against populism, given that he really only beat Le Pen. Since his election European politics has fractured even more.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG.
It's both (and May and Corbyn too)
Given Juncker's backing for a permanent Customs Union last night though and the fact 301 MPs voted for one last year a Corbyn style Brexit is probably the likeliest outcome now
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s totalad5
You could argue that point both ways though, if a lot of jobs are being created despite the highly unstable political situation and uncertain Brexit outcome, then perhaps even in the event of no deal they will be required.
What's o me.
Iin
Yep - London and the SE East will be fine post-Brexit.
The tdramatically.
Nonsense.
No, world.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
My eyes and ears are fully open. I just have very different experiences to you and object to the arrogance with which you assert you are right.
Your lack of self-knowledge is one of the true joys of this site.
My self-awareness is unmatched (I make much more money betting than you do) and my knowledge more extensive than yours.
Not my fault you can't bring yourself to admit it.
But if that fantasy brings some joy to you, I'm happy. You desperately need some in your life.
It is no coincidence that they go for much the same people the right wing press go for which are for all intents and purposes the Tories (or their supporters) Anna Soubry and others starting to get the same negative attention many Labour MPs suffer is no coincidence. Some of the biggest nutters and the ones who take action usually have no direct links themselves but they share the same opponents.
Anna Soubry is not the only Tory MP who gets abused. Any Tory MP, especially a woman, gets a lot of abuse.
Diane Abbott tops the list of abused woman MPs, a favourite target of the Tory supporters in right wing press and a favourite of the threatening far right types...
Another complete coincidence I'm sure....
Did Labour explain their methodology for that stat?
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
Labour?!
Is that a pet nickname you have for Amnesty International?
I’ve only seen Labour politicians refer to the claim that Abbott gets more than half the abuse aimed at all women MPs (sounds like carefully selecting your sample).
If it’s Amnesty then my question still stands
I couldn't tell you their exact methodology, you'd have to look it up. It is more to go on than Tories claiming it is Labour's fault or somehow the left are more abusive to woman on just their say so or by right wing headlines.
I’d be very sceptical with regards to the abuse Abbott receives. I’ve seen plenty of criticism that she can’t add up and is incompetent - I think that is fairly accurate. I’ve also seen people claim it is because she is woman and black. If Labour frequently sent a white man to say exactly the same innumerate drivel I am sure they would see the same criticism. Abbott is the Grayling of the Left
Yes but using the same measure plenty of people deserve the criticism they recieve, more so those in government who actually massively affect people's lives. Also Diane can't add up as much as Hammond and the many other MPs who have made mistakes with numbers on air.
Venezuela's top military representative to the US has defected from Nicolás Maduro's government. Col José Luis Silva says he now recognises opposition leader Juan Guaidó as president instead.
Also on foreign experience, I find that the people most interested in Brexit are Germans. Most are pretty anti, they are worried that losing the UK from the EU will be bad for the pro-market agenda. The conclusion for most Germans seems to be that brexit will leave both sides weaker and less relevant globally. The EU loses a nuclear power and UN security council member, the UK loses the heft of the EU to push it's diplomatic agenda. Another concern is that once the UK does take up WTO membership and gets seats on standards setting boards it will no longer just acquiesce to EU requirements and may push for more global alignment with the US.
My experience is that most people are bemused and/or amused.
I find disappointment to be the most common reaction from Europeans. From everyone else it's usually "who really cares".
No real interest either, I have something of a natural aversion to countries that are North and South (or East West but it seems rarer) from when I was young, why not be united, but then I would be more than happy for Ireland to be united within the UK and then happier still for us to all be united within a larger construct which is maybe somewhat the case in the EU.
I guess you must deplore that much of your leader's parliamentary career was hugely interested in, not to say obsessed with, the construct of Ireland as a nation. Of course as a late convert to political realism, Corbyn (as with so many other areas) has learned to keep his trap shut on the issue.
Some of what Britain did in N. Ireland was terrible and deserved attention, my natural lean would probably be for the country to be united but it isn't my number one issue.
Not sure why that would lead to me deploring him... Would you deplore the SNP if a few decades ago if it spent some time on an issue you sorta agreed with but wasn't your first priority?
You've mixed up leaders and parties in your comparison. Jim Sillars is (assuming he's still a member) on the left of the SNP, which I sorta agree with. He also supports Brexit being undemocratically imposed on Scotland. If he was SNP leader I'd deplore him even more than I do now.
You sorta agree with 'Brexit being undemocratically imposed on Scotland' it is happening a few decades ago and it isn't an issue you care too much about?
Just from the way you wrote it it doesn't sound like you do.... also Brexit is happening now not a couple of decades ago.
Imagine Nicola Sturgeon supported a plastic bag tax a couple of decades ago, you agree with the idea but it isn't an issue you care deeply about. Would you now deplore Nicola Sturgeon for that reason?!
It just doesn't make much sense, I didn't state earlier that I hate the idea of N. Ireland reunited with the rest of Ireland to clarify...
No reason you should know much about Sillars (apart from him starting as a Lab mp), but when he was an elected pol he was in favour of Scottish Indy within the EU. First principle is that the people who live, work and vote in Scotland should decide its future, whether it's EU membership, Brexit or keeping a bunch of over bred aristos as heads of state. I certainly deplore those who abandon first principles as they sink into reactionary senescence.
Not really sure what your plastic bag analogy is about. Scotland (with Sturgeon as FM) introduced the bag tax in 2014 which I approve of. If she'd started to backtrack or kept quiet about it to appease Mail readers, I'd certainly hold her in contempt.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
Indeed, Macron is doing well and sitting very pretty in what is a likely run-off against perennial losers the FN.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
There are friends of mine in France who now strongly support Macron.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
He in particular seems to very eager to have no deal, I hope for Ireland's sake it is not as bad as feared because he sure doesn't care if it hits them.
Coventry said he would back an extension of Article 50, Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union for the whole UK yesterday.
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
What they say is not as important as what they do, and they are as guilt of unicornism as us. They might get lucky but it's not certain and then they will have to face up that they helped choose no deal. As for wgreeing a delay thats still pointless until we agree an outcome.
In some respects it is not the EU who are guilty of unicornism but the ERG.
It's both (and May and Corbyn too)
Given Juncker's backing for a permanent Customs Union last night though and the fact 301 MPs voted for one last year a Corbyn style Brexit is probably the likeliest outcome now
Why do you think May will propose it?
May won't propose it, Corbyn will and given a permanent Customs Union was rejected by just 307 votes to 301 by MPs last summer and Juncker backed a permanent Customs Union last night it takes less than 10 MPs to switch for the Commons to vote for a permanent Customs Union.
May will then either have to accept the Commons decision or set up a constitutional crisis and a clash between the executive and the legislature and probably the resignation of half her Cabinet and her Chancellor given Hammond has reportedly already proposed a permanent Customs Union to her
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
Indeed, Macron is doing well and sitting very pretty in what is a likely run-off against perennial losers the FN.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
There are friends of mine in France who now strongly support Macron.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
Macron is basically a Cleggite LD, Clegg even attended Macron's London rally
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
Indeed, Macron is doing well and sitting very pretty in what is a likely run-off against perennial losers the FN.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
There are friends of mine in France who now strongly support Macron.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
Macron is a former banker and essentially an economic neo-liberalist coupled with neo-conservative diplomatic policy. If he were British then he'd most certainly be a Tory.
I can only be offended by serious people who have a modicum of perception and competence.
I have read many of your postings on various subject, but I had never noticed until this particular thread, that you are in fact a deluded arrogant arsehole. I hope this demonstrates sufficient perception for you to take offence.
I can only be offended by serious people who have a modicum of perception and competence.
I have read many of your postings on various subject, but I had never noticed until this particular thread, that you are in fact a deluded arrogant arsehole. I hope this demonstrates sufficient perception for you to take offence.
Although it does seem that I have demonstrated a lack of competence in using blockquotes....
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
Indeed, Macron is doing well and sitting very pretty in what is a likely run-off against perennial losers the FN.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
There are friends of mine in France who now strongly support Macron.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
Macron is a former banker and essentially an economic neo-liberalist coupled with neo-conservative diplomatic policy. If he were British then he'd most certainly be a Tory.
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
Indeed, Macron is doing well and sitting very pretty in what is a likely run-off against perennial losers the FN.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
There are friends of mine in France who now strongly support Macron.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
Macron is a former banker and essentially an economic neo-liberalist coupled with neo-conservative diplomatic policy. If he were British then he'd most certainly be a Tory.
No, he would be an Orange Book LD. Macron is also a social liberal and very pro EU so not a natural Tory, the Tories sister party remains Les Republicans not En Marche but he could certainly have been in the Cameron and Clegg Coalition government and Osborne is also a big fan of him like Clegg
She'd take it over N O D E A L. Using her formidable powers of self-interestd barefaced lying she could characterise it as a temporary transition.
I think she wants to engineer a situation where she can paint Labour and the EU as the enemy of Brexit, while kicking the can at least a year down the road and valiantly fighting to deliver on the will of the people.
In the third quarter of last year, 51% of the country’s total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) was with the rest of the EU. The figures for exports were 46% for total trade and 49% for goods. That’s a lot of trade to risk with barriers.
No, being a native speaker carries considerable advantages.
If t Chinese.
It
Don't speaks.
I am not denigrating the UK by pointing this out. It is a statement of fact.
You take the worst possible interpretation of any possible event, turn it up to eleven, and then put turboboosters under it and raise it to the power of ten. It's your "thing", it's what YOU DO and I bet makes you a nightmare to live with too.
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
I am afraid that not agreeing with you does not make me wrong. If you do travel extensively for work, it's clear to me that you do so with your eyes and ears closed. I am not sure what your personal abuse of me achieves, but clearly it makes you feel better, so who am I to complain?
Dare I suggest that the truth is somewhere between your two extreme positions?
The most important thing in business dealings is to understand and be understood, even when what’s under discussion is very complex and detailed.
I think this is probably the truth. In some areas it will matter more in some less. I am still not sure what CR meant by proper, and it probably doesn’t matter. Again if having the right accent and school tie matters it is probably not his fault!
I can only be offended by serious people who have a modicum of perception and competence.
I have read many of your postings on various subject, but I had never noticed until this particular thread, that you are in fact a deluded arrogant arsehole. I hope this demonstrates sufficient perception for you to take offence.
Although it does seem that I have demonstrated a lack of competence in using blockquotes....
If we're talking about overseas experiences, I currently spend about 10% of my existence in airports (going for that GGL status!). The rule has generally becomes the first person to mention the B word outside of meetings does a shot of whatever local spirit there is. Repeat offenders get time in the naughty corner.
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
It's rather sad. Two years ago it was a hot topic in France. Now it seems of no interest to anyone. Even the pitiful expressions have gone. France seems to be prospering and despite what we hear even Macron seems liked well enough. A letting agent told me that the Americans are now their biggest customers. Whether for the ambience or to get away from Trump I don't know
File under things you won't see reported in the UK ...
Indeed, Macron is doing well and sitting very pretty in what is a likely run-off against perennial losers the FN.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
There are friends of mine in France who now strongly support Macron.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
Macron is a former banker and essentially an economic neo-liberalist coupled with neo-conservative diplomatic policy. If he were British then he'd most certainly be a Tory.
I think that is a correct reading of Macron's political situation.
The Gilets Jaunes has now been taken over by extremists, but at outset it was a spontaneous working class protest movement, much like Solidarnosc or the Rebecca Rioters or the Peterloo Protests.
So few anticipated the 2008 crash that they made a rather brilliant film about it. Keeping our housing market relatively stable was an absolutely essential element of keeping our banks solvent thereafter. If house prices had fallen 30% after 2010 no bank would have survived without further capital inputs from the State. Latterly his tax policies made BTL much less attractive which is desirable if home ownership is to be more widespread.
The policy of encouraging foreign investment when we were struggling to make adequate investment ourselves made sense if you wished to keep the economy growing/stable which he did. Had we done that internally there would have been a major reduction in consumption leading to a significant recession and loss of employment. You can make the argument that that is something we needed to do but no one can argue that Osborne's pro-employment policies have not worked beyond his wildest dreams. The terms of that investment were of course a matter for the decision makers at the time.
I see you can't defend triple lock pensions and student tuition fees David
And are you really trying to say that the nuclear power stations fiasco was about 'encouraging foreign investment' ?
Osborne was behind the game in 2008 - you know that, I know that, we all know that - and that despite the warning signs in the economic data being there from when he became Shadow Chancellor ** and then the rather high profile case of a British bank collapsing.
There was never any danger of a 30% fall in house prices after 2010 but Osborne was more than happy to boost house prices to keep the oldies feeling affluent and voting Conservative.
** household borrowing at £100bn per year while home ownership was falling, government borrowing rising towards the end of an economic cycle, house prices soaring while share prices stagnated, falling industrial production but rapidly rising retail sales and trade deficit.
Comments
I’ll welcome machine translation when it can understand the dozen or more meanings of “Insh’Allah” used in Arabia!
I voted leave, but made no assumption that we would be leaving the single market. I didn’t think any pm would be irresponsible enough to do so. I don’t like the EU, but I don’t want to stop buying and selling widgets with them as easily as we currently do.
I never cheerleaded the leave campaign, supported them or delivered a leaflet for them.
Just from the way you wrote it it doesn't sound like you do.... also Brexit is happening now not a couple of decades ago.
Imagine Nicola Sturgeon supported a plastic bag tax a couple of decades ago, you agree with the idea but it isn't an issue you care deeply about. Would you now deplore Nicola Sturgeon for that reason?!
It just doesn't make much sense, I didn't state earlier that I hate the idea of N. Ireland reunited with the rest of Ireland to clarify...
I would be very surprised - Brexit or no Brexit - if there wasn’t a contingency plan somewhere in a drawer on martial law to quell rioting
I travel extensively too and you offer no unique or special insights. People probably blithely agree with you to save themselves the trouble, and then skink off to the pub together later without inviting you, whilst you nurse the bottle by yourself in your own hotel room.
If they might well just leave it as is then the whole thing looks even more manufactured an outrage and thus even more reasonable to be flexible on.
I suspect they conflate “criticism” with “abuse”.
For example is “you’re an idiot, how could you believe something so stupid” - is that abuse or criticism?
The EU, probably correctly, actually thinks the Commons will vote for a more BINO Brexit than May's Deal rather than No Deal given Parliament may well vote to extend Article 50 and rule out No Deal this week and 301 MPs voted for a permanent Customs Union last year
Osborne doesn't do proper preparation or attention to details **.
Look at Osborne's attempt at playing big international businessman with nuclear power stations as an example.
** Though that makes him no different to the rest of Westminster and Whitehall.
The French appear to have been rioting every weekend for 2-3 months.
Is that a pet nickname you have for Amnesty International?
But, like I said, we just pity you. Noone takes a word you say seriously.
In so far as nuclear power stations are concerned it was May that signed up to the Hinkley Point scheme that is going to undermine manufacturing competitiveness in this country for decades, not Osborne.
The most important thing in business dealings is to understand and be understood, even when what’s under discussion is very complex and detailed.
It is almost as if this racism thing is a cover, you actively want people back in charge who were happy to see racist legislation pass that deeply affect many people's lives because you disagree with the politics of those who oppose the racism and now use racism as an excuse.
Look if stopping the left is more important to you than opposing racism then fair enough it just isn't a very moral argument. I myself couldn't support racism in such a way which is why I only started voting for Labour in 2017.
If Paddy Ashdown was still with us then he might have been a contender.
Labour ..... errr....
Any HoL options?
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Bill-Gates-comes-to-Washington-selling-the-13561705.php
There’s a great opportunity there to get in at the bottom of this technology if, as expected, the US Congress can’t agree on it (because they can’t agree on anything).
If you really want to learn it do a total immersion course. After my Iraq PTSD meltdown I did 12 weeks Russian language immersion in SPb for something to do and I ended up staying Russia for nearly a decade . It was very good and AFAICR pretty cheap.
Who did you vote for before 2017 out of interest?
Overall I find most people give no fucks outside of official business.
We severely overestimate the impact of Brexit in the rest of the world, it's gone from being something of mild interest to being "call me when it's done".
While we've been navel gazing for the last three years, the rest of the world outside of Europe has moved on and completely lost interest.
If it’s Amnesty then my question still stands
I can only be offended by serious people who have a modicum of perception and competence.
I think the break point for me will be if we are blessed with a family in the future, then I’ll have to understand or the wife and child will have their own secret way of talking!
Abstention back till 2005 (said 2010 once on here I think which was wrong)
Having said that Russian dental techniques are a close cousin to those of dry stone walling so perhaps a completely encompassing understanding of the language wasn't necessary.
Who did you vote for before 2005?
Policies such as student tuition fees, triple lock pensions and help to raise house prices helped the Conservatives tactically in the short term but are deeply damaging for the country (and the Conservatives) in the long term.
That's exactly the mentality we don't need in EU negotiations.
As to nuclear power stations, Osborne's fingerprints are all over it - google George Osborne Hinkley for evidence such as:
' The chancellor used his visit to China to secure support from Chinese investors despite reservations on the cost-effectiveness of the power plant '
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/25/george-osborne-presses-on-with-hinkley-power-station-despite-criticism
or this:
https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/798415847379374080
Note that he manages to spell Hinkley wrong in that tweet.
And a Shadow Chancellor who was caught unawares by the recession does not do attention to detail.
Solar and nuclear are both going big in this part of the world, where they want to export what comes out of the ground, and the peak load is for air conditioning during the day rather than heating at night.
With hindsight Hinckley was the wrong project, I’m much more interested in Gates’ idea of molten salt and the town-scale reactors that Rolls-Royce have been working on, based on military naval technology.
I voted in 2005, Lib Dem, before that didn't vote.
Not my fault you can't bring yourself to admit it.
But if that fantasy brings some joy to you, I'm happy. You desperately need some in your life.
https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1089209667497152512
I can also confirm that Russian training aircraft work the same as western ones - they stall and spin, and can be recovered in the same standard ways from those upsets. At least I think that was what the father-in-law was saying past the empty bottle of vodka in the middle of the table!
The policy of encouraging foreign investment when we were struggling to make adequate investment ourselves made sense if you wished to keep the economy growing/stable which he did. Had we done that internally there would have been a major reduction in consumption leading to a significant recession and loss of employment. You can make the argument that that is something we needed to do but no one can argue that Osborne's pro-employment policies have not worked beyond his wildest dreams. The terms of that investment were of course a matter for the decision makers at the time.
As you say, you wouldn’t believe it from what you read, among the nasty Francophobe PBers and the blimps and bumpkins in the rightwing press.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089468556302012416
Please make it stop. You are embarrassing yourself today.
Not really sure what your plastic bag analogy is about. Scotland (with Sturgeon as FM) introduced the bag tax in 2014 which I approve of. If she'd started to backtrack or kept quiet about it to appease Mail readers, I'd certainly hold her in contempt.
What a shame. I hoped you'd been banned for good. You were an utterly toxic presence on this site.
Let's hope you've learned your lesson.
They were former Gaullists.
Macron has 30 per cent of the vote. But, it would be interested to understand how much of that vote is former Socialists (the party that Macron ostensibly supported before En Marche) and how much Gaullists.
Friends of mine in France who used to support the Socialists can't abide Macron.
You are certainly deluded if you believe Macron is "left wing".
May will then either have to accept the Commons decision or set up a constitutional crisis and a clash between the executive and the legislature and probably the resignation of half her Cabinet and her Chancellor given Hammond has reportedly already proposed a permanent Customs Union to her
Although it does seem that I have demonstrated a lack of competence in using blockquotes....
Lol!!
The Gilets Jaunes has now been taken over by extremists, but at outset it was a spontaneous working class protest movement, much like Solidarnosc or the Rebecca Rioters or the Peterloo Protests.
And are you really trying to say that the nuclear power stations fiasco was about 'encouraging foreign investment' ?
Osborne was behind the game in 2008 - you know that, I know that, we all know that - and that despite the warning signs in the economic data being there from when he became Shadow Chancellor ** and then the rather high profile case of a British bank collapsing.
There was never any danger of a 30% fall in house prices after 2010 but Osborne was more than happy to boost house prices to keep the oldies feeling affluent and voting Conservative.
** household borrowing at £100bn per year while home ownership was falling, government borrowing rising towards the end of an economic cycle, house prices soaring while share prices stagnated, falling industrial production but rapidly rising retail sales and trade deficit.