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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’re really talking about Brexit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’re really talking about Brexit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it
    Brexit means Brexit!

    Nothing has changed!
  • This Telegraph report from July 2010:

    ' Doncaster, Barnsley and Grimsby have the worst employment prospects of any major towns in the UK, according to an independent analysis.

    A study by the Work Foundation found the three Northern cities were the hardest hit from the recession, with "very low" levels of employment in growth sectors combined with relatively low-skilled populations.

    All three areas also rely heavily on public sector jobs, meaning they will take a further hit when the Government sheds hundreds of thousands of state workers to bring down the country's deficit. '

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7871466/Revealed-UK-towns-where-its-hardest-to-find-a-job.html

    makes an interesting contrast this month's Guardian:

    ' South Yorkshire and Merseyside recorded the strongest levels of jobs growth in the decade since the financial crisis, according to a report that also finds low-income households have benefited more than richer ones.

    The rise in the national employment rate to 75.7%, the highest level on record, has been driven by comparatively low-employment areas of the UK “catching up” over the past decade, according to the Resolution Foundation.

    While it is often assumed that job creation is centred on London, the thinktank’s report found that the biggest regional increase in the employment rate since the 2008 financial crash was in South Yorkshire. Employment rose by 6.5 percentage points to 71.7% in the region, which contains Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley. '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/uk-jobs-boom-strongest-in-south-yorkshire-and-merseyside-thinktank-finds

    The number of new private sector jobs created must be very significant.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
  • Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    viewcode said:

    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
    We like guys who don't crash, right folks?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,281

    This Telegraph report from July 2010:

    ' Doncaster, Barnsley and Grimsby have the worst employment prospects of any major towns in the UK, according to an independent analysis.

    A study by the Work Foundation found the three Northern cities were the hardest hit from the recession, with "very low" levels of employment in growth sectors combined with relatively low-skilled populations.

    All three areas also rely heavily on public sector jobs, meaning they will take a further hit when the Government sheds hundreds of thousands of state workers to bring down the country's deficit. '

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7871466/Revealed-UK-towns-where-its-hardest-to-find-a-job.html

    makes an interesting contrast this month's Guardian:

    ' South Yorkshire and Merseyside recorded the strongest levels of jobs growth in the decade since the financial crisis, according to a report that also finds low-income households have benefited more than richer ones.

    The rise in the national employment rate to 75.7%, the highest level on record, has been driven by comparatively low-employment areas of the UK “catching up” over the past decade, according to the Resolution Foundation.

    While it is often assumed that job creation is centred on London, the thinktank’s report found that the biggest regional increase in the employment rate since the 2008 financial crash was in South Yorkshire. Employment rose by 6.5 percentage points to 71.7% in the region, which contains Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley. '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/uk-jobs-boom-strongest-in-south-yorkshire-and-merseyside-thinktank-finds

    The number of new private sector jobs created must be very significant.

    There was some discussion about this on the BBC stats program More or Less today.

    Contrary to popular belief, the employment growth figures are not skewed by disproportionate growth in low hours or zero hours contract work.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,281
    viewcode said:

    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
    Not evolution.

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    viewcode said:

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(


    To be fair, Ann Coulter is very much on the howling-at-the-moon wing of the party. She makes even the nuttiest pols we've got here look like geniuses.
  • This Telegraph report from July 2010:

    ' Doncaster, Barnsley and Grimsby have the worst employment prospects of any major towns in the UK, according to an independent analysis.

    A study by the Work Foundation found the three Northern cities were the hardest hit from the recession, with "very low" levels of employment in growth sectors combined with relatively low-skilled populations.

    All three areas also rely heavily on public sector jobs, meaning they will take a further hit when the Government sheds hundreds of thousands of state workers to bring down the country's deficit. '

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7871466/Revealed-UK-towns-where-its-hardest-to-find-a-job.html

    makes an interesting contrast this month's Guardian:

    ' South Yorkshire and Merseyside recorded the strongest levels of jobs growth in the decade since the financial crisis, according to a report that also finds low-income households have benefited more than richer ones.

    The rise in the national employment rate to 75.7%, the highest level on record, has been driven by comparatively low-employment areas of the UK “catching up” over the past decade, according to the Resolution Foundation.

    While it is often assumed that job creation is centred on London, the thinktank’s report found that the biggest regional increase in the employment rate since the 2008 financial crash was in South Yorkshire. Employment rose by 6.5 percentage points to 71.7% in the region, which contains Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley. '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/uk-jobs-boom-strongest-in-south-yorkshire-and-merseyside-thinktank-finds

    The number of new private sector jobs created must be very significant.

    UC reforms to make work pay are working. That is much better for people to be in work and able to support themselves than relying upon a broken benefits system.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    This Telegraph report from July 2010:

    ' Doncaster, Barnsley and Grimsby have the worst employment prospects of any major towns in the UK, according to an independent analysis.

    A study by the Work Foundation found the three Northern cities were the hardest hit from the recession, with "very low" levels of employment in growth sectors combined with relatively low-skilled populations.

    All three areas also rely heavily on public sector jobs, meaning they will take a further hit when the Government sheds hundreds of thousands of state workers to bring down the country's deficit. '

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7871466/Revealed-UK-towns-where-its-hardest-to-find-a-job.html

    makes an interesting contrast this month's Guardian:

    ' South Yorkshire and Merseyside recorded the strongest levels of jobs growth in the decade since the financial crisis, according to a report that also finds low-income households have benefited more than richer ones.

    The rise in the national employment rate to 75.7%, the highest level on record, has been driven by comparatively low-employment areas of the UK “catching up” over the past decade, according to the Resolution Foundation.

    While it is often assumed that job creation is centred on London, the thinktank’s report found that the biggest regional increase in the employment rate since the 2008 financial crash was in South Yorkshire. Employment rose by 6.5 percentage points to 71.7% in the region, which contains Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley. '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/uk-jobs-boom-strongest-in-south-yorkshire-and-merseyside-thinktank-finds

    The number of new private sector jobs created must be very significant.

    UC reforms to make work pay are working. That is much better for people to be in work and able to support themselves than relying upon a broken benefits system.
    It is excellent news that so many people have found work.
  • Nigelb said:

    This Telegraph report from July 2010:

    ' Doncaster, Barnsley and Grimsby have the worst employment prospects of any major towns in the UK, according to an independent analysis.

    A study by the Work Foundation found the three Northern cities were the hardest hit from the recession, with "very low" levels of employment in growth sectors combined with relatively low-skilled populations.

    All three areas also rely heavily on public sector jobs, meaning they will take a further hit when the Government sheds hundreds of thousands of state workers to bring down the country's deficit. '

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7871466/Revealed-UK-towns-where-its-hardest-to-find-a-job.html

    makes an interesting contrast this month's Guardian:

    ' South Yorkshire and Merseyside recorded the strongest levels of jobs growth in the decade since the financial crisis, according to a report that also finds low-income households have benefited more than richer ones.

    The rise in the national employment rate to 75.7%, the highest level on record, has been driven by comparatively low-employment areas of the UK “catching up” over the past decade, according to the Resolution Foundation.

    While it is often assumed that job creation is centred on London, the thinktank’s report found that the biggest regional increase in the employment rate since the 2008 financial crash was in South Yorkshire. Employment rose by 6.5 percentage points to 71.7% in the region, which contains Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley. '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/uk-jobs-boom-strongest-in-south-yorkshire-and-merseyside-thinktank-finds

    The number of new private sector jobs created must be very significant.

    There was some discussion about this on the BBC stats program More or Less today.

    Contrary to popular belief, the employment growth figures are not skewed by disproportionate growth in low hours or zero hours contract work.

    The number of involuntary temporary and part-time workers seems to have peaked early in 2013 and fallen steadily since (although still higher than before the recession):

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    viewcode said:

    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
    Ann Coulter is mad as a hatter.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    Nigelb said:



    There was some discussion about this on the BBC stats program More or Less today.

    Contrary to popular belief, the employment growth figures are not skewed by disproportionate growth in low hours or zero hours contract work.

    I'm a big fan of More or Less - really lucid and doesn't dumb down with silly examples like some science programmes. But a more common critique of the employment figures is that they reflect employers drawing on an abundance of very cheap labour and the economy as a whole is under-productive. High employment is clearly better than the reverse. But in a really healthy economy, employers automate and people upskill, though it's very difficult to make that work smoothly.
  • Whatever the solution may be, a wall certainly isn't it. It didn't work in Hadrian's time, and it sure as hell won't work now.

    Ask the Vatican to take down their walls then - or those surrounding many a gated community occupied by opponents of Donald Trump.
  • Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,281

    Nigelb said:



    There was some discussion about this on the BBC stats program More or Less today.

    Contrary to popular belief, the employment growth figures are not skewed by disproportionate growth in low hours or zero hours contract work.

    I'm a big fan of More or Less - really lucid and doesn't dumb down with silly examples like some science programmes. But a more common critique of the employment figures is that they reflect employers drawing on an abundance of very cheap labour and the economy as a whole is under-productive. High employment is clearly better than the reverse. But in a really healthy economy, employers automate and people upskill, though it's very difficult to make that work smoothly.
    There is likely truth in that, but the picture is again not quite as clearcut as thought:
    https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2018/12/10/narrower-productivity-figures/

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2019

    Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???

    If someone is employed for 2 or 3 days a week, does that mean they're not included in the unemployment figures? Interesting question.
  • AndyJS said:

    Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???

    If someone is employed for 2 or 3 days a week, does that mean they're not included in the unemployment figures? Interesting question.
    They would be counted as employed part time and as involuntary part-time if they wanted a full time job.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,732
    Nice pun.
    image
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
    Which is exactly the policy governments follow all across the world.

    Its a lot easier for a millionaire or a brain surgeon to migrate to another country than a poverty stricken peasant.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
    Which is exactly the policy governments follow all across the world.

    Its a lot easier for a millionaire or a brain surgeon to migrate to another country than a poverty stricken peasant.
    Yes, the irony is that @roger, @tyson and myself will all effectively keep FOM, as will the Dysons and Moggs of the world, but the Leavers who formerly retired to the Costas lose it.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
    Which is exactly the policy governments follow all across the world.

    Its a lot easier for a millionaire or a brain surgeon to migrate to another country than a poverty stricken peasant.
    Yes, the irony is that @roger, @tyson and myself will all effectively keep FOM, as will the Dysons and Moggs of the world, but the Leavers who formerly retired to the Costas lose it.
    They'll keep it as well.

    To retire to the Costas you need money.

    For that matter you need money if you retire to Clacton or Cleethorpes.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    AndyJS said:

    Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???

    If someone is employed for 2 or 3 days a week, does that mean they're not included in the unemployment figures? Interesting question.
    If you work just one hour a week and if you work unpaid for family, such as caring for a family member, you appear to be classified as employed and therefore not included in the unemployment figures.


    "The number of people in employment in the UK is measured by the Labour Force Survey (LFS) and consists of people aged 16 and over who did one hour or more of paid work per week (as an employee or self-employed), those who had a job that they were temporarily away from, those on government-supported training and employment programmes, and those doing unpaid family work."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/methodologies/aguidetolabourmarketstatistics#employment
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
    Ann Coulter is mad as a hatter.
    But...she did go on the record to say that Trump would become President - to mighty guffaws and mocking.

    "Well," to quote Bob Monkhouse "they're not laughing now..."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC9Pch4__M8
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Cyclefree said:
    He joins the long, long list of people on all sides of the Brexit shitfest that really need to be beaten around the head with an inflated puffer fish until they come to their senses.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    More than two-thirds of voters in Mark Francois's constituency voted for him at the last election.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_and_Wickford_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    BudG said:

    AndyJS said:

    Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???

    If someone is employed for 2 or 3 days a week, does that mean they're not included in the unemployment figures? Interesting question.
    If you work just one hour a week and if you work unpaid for family, such as caring for a family member, you appear to be classified as employed and therefore not included in the unemployment figures.


    "The number of people in employment in the UK is measured by the Labour Force Survey (LFS) and consists of people aged 16 and over who did one hour or more of paid work per week (as an employee or self-employed), those who had a job that they were temporarily away from, those on government-supported training and employment programmes, and those doing unpaid family work."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/methodologies/aguidetolabourmarketstatistics#employment
    Thanks BudG.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    BudG said:

    AndyJS said:

    Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???

    If someone is employed for 2 or 3 days a week, does that mean they're not included in the unemployment figures? Interesting question.
    If you work just one hour a week and if you work unpaid for family, such as caring for a family member, you appear to be classified as employed and therefore not included in the unemployment figures.


    "The number of people in employment in the UK is measured by the Labour Force Survey (LFS) and consists of people aged 16 and over who did one hour or more of paid work per week (as an employee or self-employed), those who had a job that they were temporarily away from, those on government-supported training and employment programmes, and those doing unpaid family work."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/methodologies/aguidetolabourmarketstatistics#employment
    Correction: Unpaid family work means working for a family business unpaid.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Nigelb said:



    There was some discussion about this on the BBC stats program More or Less today.

    Contrary to popular belief, the employment growth figures are not skewed by disproportionate growth in low hours or zero hours contract work.

    I'm a big fan of More or Less - really lucid and doesn't dumb down with silly examples like some science programmes. But a more common critique of the employment figures is that they reflect employers drawing on an abundance of very cheap labour and the economy as a whole is under-productive. High employment is clearly better than the reverse. But in a really healthy economy, employers automate and people upskill, though it's very difficult to make that work smoothly.
    One of the best programmes on radio IMO. Thinking Allowed is good too.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
    Ann Coulter is mad as a hatter.
    But...she did go on the record to say that Trump would become President - to mighty guffaws and mocking.

    "Well," to quote Bob Monkhouse "they're not laughing now..."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC9Pch4__M8
    Amusingly, I'm actually heading out with Ann Coulter this evening, as we are both guests of Bill Maher.
  • AndyJS said:

    More than two-thirds of voters in Mark Francois's constituency voted for him at the last election.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_and_Wickford_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s

    Cameron must have rated him highly as he was Shadow Minister for Europe and then had government jobs until May sacked him:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Francois

    I wonder if he is personally bitter towards May ?

    This seems to be a strange government job:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Portsmouth

    Have any other towns had their own ministers ?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
    Which is exactly the policy governments follow all across the world.

    Its a lot easier for a millionaire or a brain surgeon to migrate to another country than a poverty stricken peasant.
    Yes, the irony is that @roger, @tyson and myself will all effectively keep FOM, as will the Dysons and Moggs of the world, but the Leavers who formerly retired to the Costas lose it.
    They'll keep it as well.

    To retire to the Costas you need money.

    For that matter you need money if you retire to Clacton or Cleethorpes.
    Our Brexit-voting nextdoor neighbours are not wealthy but did put their savings into a flat in southern Spain. They thought retiring there would be cheap because of free healthcare etc. It'll be interesting to see if they still make a go of it.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    George HW Bush? The WWII naval aviator who survived a crash into the Pacific? Former CIA head George HW Bush? The President who won a war so convincingly that they paused the bombing because they were killing too many enemy troops? That George HW Bush???

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(
    Ann Coulter is mad as a hatter.
    Or mad as a Mogg, as they say these days.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Look out for an extraordinary VI poll tomorrow night.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Look out for an extraordinary VI poll tomorrow night.

    If it's extraordinary I won't have to look out for it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    Look out for an extraordinary VI poll tomorrow night.

    hmmm. Pretty sure we have heard this before.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    Nice pun.
    image

    Ouch!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Andrew said:

    viewcode said:

    What do they teach Republicans these days? Smh... :(


    To be fair, Ann Coulter is very much on the howling-at-the-moon wing of the party. She makes even the nuttiest pols we've got here look like geniuses.
    She is not a politician, she is selling a product, nothing more. And she is very successful at what she does. I'd like to be that mad.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited January 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The Donald may have lost but Melania's won some money off the Telegraph.

    We apologise unreservedly to The First Lady and her family for any embarrassment caused by our publication of these allegations. As a mark of our regret we have agreed to pay Mrs Trump substantial damages as well as her legal costs.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/26/melania-trump-apology/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,505

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited January 2019


    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.

    It's all very well carping and complaining but I don't see you coming up with any better solutions.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    edited January 2019


    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.

    It's all very well carping and complaining but I don't see you coming up with any better solutions.
    Don’t need a solution to the Monarchy, it knits state and democracy together very nicely, certainly better than an elected president in the role, who could be some hands on extremist. Other alternative to elected presidency would be to expand and beef up the office of commons speaker, giving them extra responsibilities and power. Ha! Nuff said? We love our Queen.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    edited January 2019
    Things are a darn sight clearer than this time last week. The Murrison amendment passes, the Gov, DUP, ERG and Dublin and EU then start working together getting creative with backstop mechanics and clever words effectively putting up ladders to help brexit MPs down from the lofty positions they built for themselves, help down to ensure May’s deal gets through. And it will. We will exit EU this spring or early summer based on May’s deal, once the Murrison amendment is passed, because it lights a path forward where May’s deal passes parliament all the other scenario, no deal crash out, peoples vote, Norway models will all be dead in the water.

    Maybe not early as Tuesday evening but certainly before end of coming week, betting markets will show brexit as near certain to happen in coming months. And if you really don’t like what I am saying, and consider this crazy, see you here same time next week. 😁

    This is a betting blog, here’s an interesting bet. When we brexit without CU this spring early summer, how long until we are back in the customs union? Nothing to stop parties adding this to their GE manifesto’s. A majority, perhaps plurality of voters would be in favour, so its not going to harm anyone’s chances of winning a GE with that in their manifesto. But I cant see it in any Conservative manifesto any time soon, so there’s clear water between them and other parties. It would be interesting to see on what grounds the Torys fight it, they cant use disrespecting the 2016 vote because we will have brexited based on 2016 vote, hence whole new ball game, fair play for parties to add it to their manifestos and fight GE on signing up to the CU.

    I reckon not much more than 8 years, that’s two GE, perhaps even less. 🤔
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    dots said:


    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.

    It's all very well carping and complaining but I don't see you coming up with any better solutions.
    Don’t need a solution to the Monarchy, it knits state and democracy together very nicely, certainly better than an elected president in the role, who could be some hands on extremist. Other alternative to elected presidency would be to expand and beef up the office of commons speaker, giving them extra responsibilities and power. Ha! Nuff said? We love our Queen.
    I was thinking of a solution to the current brexit zugzwang. I'm perfectly prepared to consider options that *don't* involve Her Majesty faking her own death and starting a new life in Penang, but I want to hear about the specifics.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    I wonder what those damages amounted to...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/26/melania-trump-apology/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited January 2019

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    RobD said:
    Quite a lot by the look of it.

    Morning everybody!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    RobD said:


    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image

    I think it's implicit in @Dura_Ace's post that there's support for the monarchy with the current Queen. I wouldn't go so far as to extrapolate that to all eternity like @Casino_Royale does but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708


    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

    The Church of England seems to have survived it on a few occasions in the past...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Any experts on Dutch working practices ?

    According to the ONS the countries with the highest levels of part time employment are those with the lowest levels of unemployment:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    So its 25% in the UK, 26% in Germany and 27% in Austria but the Netherlands has 50% part time employment ???

    In France of course 100% of people work part time.

    And in Greece nobody worked at all until 2008 - we know this because their tax returns said so.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

    I expect a small drop, but probably only temporary. The end of the second Elizabethan age will be something to reflect upon. The Britain and Empire of 1953 was a lifetime ago, and a very diferent country.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Seem to recall a poll somewhere which suggested that the Crown should skip a generation and pass straight from Elizabeth II to William V.

    Which, given the actuarial probabilities, it might yet.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’ve continually argued that? Did nobody point out that EEA countries already take part and have observers on the management board?

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/who-we-are/management-board
    In the past I’ve said “associate” members.

    Fundamentally it makes sense for the IK to play a full role in the EMA. The EU has rejected that. As with Galileo it’s a silly short-sighted decision
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’re really talking about Brexit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it
    No I’m really not.

    I’m talking about the EMA.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited January 2019



    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

    I don't think anyone is too fucked about that apart from, perhaps, a certain amount of bemusement at his choices.

    He is a conceited fucker who can't keep his mouth shut. He will be acutely aware that he has been The Man Who Would be King for a very long time and may not have a very long reign as active monarch. He will want to make his mark and secure his historical legacy. Calamity will ensue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    While it is unlikely Charles would be a good, popular or long lasting king, I doubt if he would be fatal for the monarchy. One, his age makes it improbable any head of steam could be built up for a republic during what will almost certainly be the short time he is king. Two, his sons are more popular - especially William - and if there were a crisis Charles' abdication in his favour would almost certainly resolve it. Three, there is an awful lot of other stuff to unpick - remember Her Maj is the queen or Head of State of the UK, sixteen other countries, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man - and throwing them into involuntary chaos would be unpopular just at the moment we're grovelling for trade deals. I don't see us abolishing the monarchy until at least Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Jamaica have.

    The real problem is not only that republicans are a minority and a very small if very vocal one, but that bluntly there are more urgent constitutional issues out there than the monarchy. Shall we start with the House of Lords, the emasculation of local government partly through these daft unitary authorities the size of postage stamps, the decolutionary imbalance and the absurdity of the Speaker being MP for a specific constituency? I don't see anyone pushing for fundamental reform of the Head of State role until these have been sorted out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited January 2019
    Dura_Ace said:



    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

    I don't think anyone is too fucked about that apart from, perhaps, a certain amount of bemusement at his choices.

    He is a conceited fucker who can't keep his mouth shut. He will be acutely aware that he has been The Man Who Would be King for a very long time and may not have a very long reign as active monarch. He will want to make his mark and secure his historical legacy. Calamity will ensue.
    Very amusing! But still improbable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’ve continually argued that? Did nobody point out that EEA countries already take part and have observers on the management board?

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/who-we-are/management-board
    In the past I’ve said “associate” members.

    Fundamentally it makes sense for the IK to play a full role in the EMA. The EU has rejected that. As with Galileo it’s a silly short-sighted decision
    Surely it makes sense for an EU organisation to a) have only EU members as full members and b) to be based in an EU member country.

    And, IIRC the UK decided to leave, as a consequence of Brexit. Like Euratom.
  • Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

    I expect a small drop, but probably only temporary. The end of the second Elizabethan age will be something to reflect upon. The Britain and Empire of 1953 was a lifetime ago, and a very diferent country.
    Look we know Charles is someone who will break his marriage vows for his own degenerate pleasures, a man like that will break his coronation oath to the country for similar reasons, then country really will be in a bad place.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

    The Church of England was created because the monarch at the time was an adulterer and fornicator. Didn't crash Henry VIII's numbers....
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

    I expect a small drop, but probably only temporary. The end of the second Elizabethan age will be something to reflect upon. The Britain and Empire of 1953 was a lifetime ago, and a very diferent country.
    Look we know Charles is someone who will break his marriage vows for his own degenerate pleasures, a man like that will break his coronation oath to the country for similar reasons, then country really will be in a bad place.
    You mean it will be like last time? Will there be some kind of break with a powerful and corrupt trans-European organisation determined on stamping out dissent, but we keep everything the same except the blue passports, er, Head of the Church?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’ve continually argued that? Did nobody point out that EEA countries already take part and have observers on the management board?

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/who-we-are/management-board
    In the past I’ve said “associate” members.

    Fundamentally it makes sense for the IK to play a full role in the EMA. The EU has rejected that. As with Galileo it’s a silly short-sighted decision
    Surely it makes sense for an EU organisation to a) have only EU members as full members and b) to be based in an EU member country.

    And, IIRC the UK decided to leave, as a consequence of Brexit. Like Euratom.
    Something like the EMA works well in no small part thanks to the contribution of the MHRA. There are no benefits to public health of fragmenting the approval of drugs and regulatory standards. There are no sovereignty implications of the U.K. remaining a member post Brexit.

    In a rational world the authorities would create an associate membership for the U.K.

    As for moving location, it’s a plum asset so of course I can understand why the EU relocated it. However something like 40% of the staff have resigned - that is going to slow down drug approvals until they are replaced and result in a loss of institutional knowledge. In my view that is deleterious to public health.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    There is however a problem with that argument and that is it seems unlikely to function effectively in Amsterdam either. One quarter of their staff have left, and most of the big research centres are still in the UK.

    It's like everything else with Brexit - it's been rushed and therefore it's been bungled.

    Strangely however I am not too worried about that one as after all the US FDA does an awful lot of the actual work on these things. If however the EBA is similarly damaged the world economy is in for a very bumpy ride.
  • Dadge said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
    Which is exactly the policy governments follow all across the world.

    Its a lot easier for a millionaire or a brain surgeon to migrate to another country than a poverty stricken peasant.
    Yes, the irony is that @roger, @tyson and myself will all effectively keep FOM, as will the Dysons and Moggs of the world, but the Leavers who formerly retired to the Costas lose it.
    They'll keep it as well.

    To retire to the Costas you need money.

    For that matter you need money if you retire to Clacton or Cleethorpes.
    Our Brexit-voting nextdoor neighbours are not wealthy but did put their savings into a flat in southern Spain. They thought retiring there would be cheap because of free healthcare etc. It'll be interesting to see if they still make a go of it.

    They need to get their skates on. When the UK becomes a third country, third country immigration rules will apply to UK citizens.

    https://www.realista.com/resources/spanish-residence-visa-permits/

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Seem to recall a poll somewhere which suggested that the Crown should skip a generation and pass straight from Elizabeth II to William V.

    Which, given the actuarial probabilities, it might yet.
    We could ease into a republic gently by saying the monarch has to be someone in the royal family, but the voters get to pick which one.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    I don’t think any of the Remainers who gave responded on this topic have actually read my post.

    I’ve said (a) it was inevitable and (b) it is a bad thing for public health

    You could engage with the substance. But I guess it’s easier to take cheap shots instead of debating whether if not the EU is acting in a sensible way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    As for moving location, it’s a plum asset so of course I can understand why the EU relocated it. However something like 40% of the staff have resigned - that is going to slow down drug approvals until they are replaced and result in a loss of institutional knowledge. In my view that is deleterious to public health.

    The industry puts the figure at 24%:

    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/more-ema-staff-expected-to-move-to-amsterdam/20205789.article?firstPass=false

    I'm not quite sure if that includes the loss of 150 temporary workers or not though. If it doesn't the figure would be around 32%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Seem to recall a poll somewhere which suggested that the Crown should skip a generation and pass straight from Elizabeth II to William V.

    Which, given the actuarial probabilities, it might yet.
    We could ease into a republic gently by saying the monarch has to be someone in the royal family, but the voters get to pick which one.
    Er, no. I thought about that as a possible compromise once, but the risk of Prince Andrew becoming King is simply too high.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    Yes, who would have thought that leaving the EU would mean no longer hosting EU bodies?

    It rather reminds me of this classic poll finding on Freedom of Movement:

    https://twitter.com/osheaf01/status/1087045757725753344
    While there's a hefty dollop of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy in that there is also a certain logic.

    British people who move to other European countries tend to work in better jobs and/or be more affluent than the locals whereas people who migrate to Britain from other European countries tend to work in lower level jobs and/or be poorer.

    And people generally are happier with rich and highly skilled migrants rather than poor and lower skilled migrants.
    Quite right, rich people should have rights to Freedom of movement that poor people should not. Those poor folk should stay where they belong.
    Which is exactly the policy governments follow all across the world.

    Its a lot easier for a millionaire or a brain surgeon to migrate to another country than a poverty stricken peasant.
    Yes, the irony is that @roger, @tyson and myself will all effectively keep FOM, as will the Dysons and Moggs of the world, but the Leavers who formerly retired to the Costas lose it.
    They'll keep it as well.

    To retire to the Costas you need money.

    For that matter you need money if you retire to Clacton or Cleethorpes.

    To retire to the Costas currently you need the price of an air fare, enough money to pay your rent and to live on day to day. You need money, but you don't have to be rich. Not for much longer.

    To work on the Costas - as many tens of thousands of very ordinary Brits do either full-time or seasonally - you just need UK citizenship. Not for much longer.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    As for moving location, it’s a plum asset so of course I can understand why the EU relocated it. However something like 40% of the staff have resigned - that is going to slow down drug approvals until they are replaced and result in a loss of institutional knowledge. In my view that is deleterious to public health.

    The industry puts the figure at 24%:

    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/more-ema-staff-expected-to-move-to-amsterdam/20205789.article?firstPass=false

    I'm not quite sure if that includes the loss of 150 temporary workers or not though. If it doesn't the figure would be around 32%.
    “Redundancy is not being offered to staff who don’t want to move to Amsterdam”

    I’m sure that under our ever so lax UK employment regulations you can’t force a employee to move country...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    edited January 2019

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Seem to recall a poll somewhere which suggested that the Crown should skip a generation and pass straight from Elizabeth II to William V.

    Which, given the actuarial probabilities, it might yet.
    We could ease into a republic gently by saying the monarch has to be someone in the royal family, but the voters get to pick which one.
    I hesitate to suggest any historical parallel with a distinguished historian about, but isn't that what the Saxons did before those wretched European Normans took over the Government?

    Of course it wasn't his country then! Or, arguably, mine!
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    I don’t think any of the Remainers who gave responded on this topic have actually read my post.

    I’ve said (a) it was inevitable and (b) it is a bad thing for public health

    You could engage with the substance. But I guess it’s easier to take cheap shots instead of debating whether if not the EU is acting in a sensible way.

    The EU was acting in the only way open to it - as the approach of a No Deal Brexit demonstrates.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited January 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Er, no. I thought about that as a possible compromise once, but the risk of Prince Andrew becoming King is simply too high.

    Or come at the compromise from the opposite end: The monarchy passes in a direct line through the Royal Family as now, but every year the monarch rolls 3 dice, and if they all come up sixes we elect a new family.
  • ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    There is however a problem with that argument and that is it seems unlikely to function effectively in Amsterdam either. One quarter of their staff have left, and most of the big research centres are still in the UK.

    It's like everything else with Brexit - it's been rushed and therefore it's been bungled.

    Strangely however I am not too worried about that one as after all the US FDA does an awful lot of the actual work on these things. If however the EBA is similarly damaged the world economy is in for a very bumpy ride.

    The approach of a No Deal Brexit shows that the decision to rush was exactly right.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.
    You’ve continually argued that? Did nobody point out that EEA countries already take part and have observers on the management board?

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/who-we-are/management-board
    In the past I’ve said “associate” members.

    Fundamentally it makes sense for the IK to play a full role in the EMA. The EU has rejected that. As with Galileo it’s a silly short-sighted decision
    Of course it would have been more sensible to Remain, but that ship has sailed.

    We have regained sovereignty over medicines, though will now exercise that by rubber stamping edicts from Amsterdam.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    As for moving location, it’s a plum asset so of course I can understand why the EU relocated it. However something like 40% of the staff have resigned - that is going to slow down drug approvals until they are replaced and result in a loss of institutional knowledge. In my view that is deleterious to public health.

    The industry puts the figure at 24%:

    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/more-ema-staff-expected-to-move-to-amsterdam/20205789.article?firstPass=false

    I'm not quite sure if that includes the loss of 150 temporary workers or not though. If it doesn't the figure would be around 32%.
    “Redundancy is not being offered to staff who don’t want to move to Amsterdam”

    I’m sure that under our ever so lax UK employment regulations you can’t force a employee to move country...
    Mr Eagles would know more than this given he's been affected, but my understanding of UK law is that if you relocate, you are obliged to offer your staff the chance to move with you. However, if they do not wish to move, you are not then obliged to assist them further and can hold them to have resigned.

    Responsible, flexible and humane employers wouldn't behave like that, of course, but the EU are not responsible, are completely inflexible and prize abstract principles above employees (except Selmayr) so that doesn't apply.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    As for moving location, it’s a plum asset so of course I can understand why the EU relocated it. However something like 40% of the staff have resigned - that is going to slow down drug approvals until they are replaced and result in a loss of institutional knowledge. In my view that is deleterious to public health.

    The industry puts the figure at 24%:

    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/more-ema-staff-expected-to-move-to-amsterdam/20205789.article?firstPass=false

    I'm not quite sure if that includes the loss of 150 temporary workers or not though. If it doesn't the figure would be around 32%.
    “Redundancy is not being offered to staff who don’t want to move to Amsterdam”

    I’m sure that under our ever so lax UK employment regulations you can’t force a employee to move country...
    IIRC the staff were asked if they wanted to go. There's also the question of the agency work carried out by our own MHRA, which may or may not continue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Seem to recall a poll somewhere which suggested that the Crown should skip a generation and pass straight from Elizabeth II to William V.

    Which, given the actuarial probabilities, it might yet.
    We could ease into a republic gently by saying the monarch has to be someone in the royal family, but the voters get to pick which one.
    I hesitate to suggest any historical parallel with a distinguished historian about, but isn't that what the Saxons did before those wretched European Normans took over the Government?

    Of course it wasn't his country then! Or, arguably, mine!
    Only if there was no clear heir, as under Edward the Confessor. But that applied under the Normans too - cf Stephen, Henry II, and Henry VII, not to mention James I and George I.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’s unnecessary in the sense that the staff don’t want it, the FDA doesn’t like it, the pharma companies don’t want it and patients will suffer. But the EU commission can go and buff their nails and feel good about themselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    There is however a problem with that argument and that is it seems unlikely to function effectively in Amsterdam either. One quarter of their staff have left, and most of the big research centres are still in the UK.

    It's like everything else with Brexit - it's been rushed and therefore it's been bungled.

    Strangely however I am not too worried about that one as after all the US FDA does an awful lot of the actual work on these things. If however the EBA is similarly damaged the world economy is in for a very bumpy ride.

    The approach of a No Deal Brexit shows that the decision to rush was exactly right.

    No deal Brexit is approaching because everything has been done too fast. So actually it tends to undermine your point.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    You are kidding me right?

    Two or three days ago, the Express was telling us anyone who was not a No Deal Brexit -let's launch the dambusters-at-Germany again - swine - was a traitor.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1088922351675363328

    Is she planning to drop dead? Because that is the only thing she could do that would temporarily unite the nation. Even me and my fellow small R republicans would be happy because the monarchy is not going to survive C&C.
    It's worth a shot - I bet the EU would grant an extension if TMay said everybody was busy with state funerals and things.

    She doesn't have to actually die necessarily - she could fake it and change her identity and have a proper retirement away from all that monarchying business.
    Couple of disgusting posts here.

    Republicans showing their true nastiness and illustrating why Britain will never be a Republic.
    The people agree with you :D (at least, back in 2013 :p )

    image
    Those numbers will collapse once Charles becomes King.

    He’s an adulterer and fornicator for starters which is incompatible with his role as Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
    Seem to recall a poll somewhere which suggested that the Crown should skip a generation and pass straight from Elizabeth II to William V.

    Which, given the actuarial probabilities, it might yet.
    We could ease into a republic gently by saying the monarch has to be someone in the royal family, but the voters get to pick which one.
    I hesitate to suggest any historical parallel with a distinguished historian about, but isn't that what the Saxons did before those wretched European Normans took over the Government?

    Of course it wasn't his country then! Or, arguably, mine!
    Only if there was no clear heir, as under Edward the Confessor. But that applied under the Normans too - cf Stephen, Henry II, and Henry VII, not to mention James I and George I.
    I thought Henry VII was 'right of conquest', battlefield coronation and so on. And hadn't George I been designated ever since Anne's surviving child died?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    I don't see us abolishing the monarchy until at least Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Jamaica have.

    The Australians, possibly with one eye on the Brexit fiasco, are going for a two referendum model. The first will be a Yes/No republic question and the second will decide the replacement as head of state. Labor (currently 1.1 odds to win the imminent election) are going to create a cabinet minister for Quexit to oversee the process with a view to completing it within the term of the government.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    edited January 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    As for moving location, it’s a plum asset so of course I can understand why the EU relocated it. However something like 40% of the staff have resigned - that is going to slow down drug approvals until they are replaced and result in a loss of institutional knowledge. In my view that is deleterious to public health.

    The industry puts the figure at 24%:

    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/more-ema-staff-expected-to-move-to-amsterdam/20205789.article?firstPass=false

    I'm not quite sure if that includes the loss of 150 temporary workers or not though. If it doesn't the figure would be around 32%.
    “Redundancy is not being offered to staff who don’t want to move to Amsterdam”

    I’m sure that under our ever so lax UK employment regulations you can’t force a employee to move country...
    Mr Eagles would know more than this given he's been affected, but my understanding of UK law is that if you relocate, you are obliged to offer your staff the chance to move with you. However, if they do not wish to move, you are not then obliged to assist them further and can hold them to have resigned.

    Responsible, flexible and humane employers wouldn't behave like that, of course, but the EU are not responsible, are completely inflexible and prize abstract principles above employees (except Selmayr) so that doesn't apply.
    Surely it’s our liability since we’re kicking out the EU.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’sthemselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    There is however a problem with that argument and that is it seems unlikely to function effectively in Amsterdam either. One quarter of their staff have left, and most of the big research centres are still in the UK.

    It's like everything else with Brexit - it's been rushed and therefore it's been bungled.

    Strangely however I am not too worried about that one as after all the US FDA does an awful lot of the actual work on these things. If however the EBA is similarly damaged the world economy is in for a very bumpy ride.

    The approach of a No Deal Brexit shows that the decision to rush was exactly right.

    No deal Brexit is approaching because everything has been done too fast. So actually it tends to undermine your point.

    Not really. It is approaching because Mrs May triggered Article 50. It was only then that the EMA gave notice of its departure.

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/united-kingdoms-withdrawal-european-union-brexit

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited January 2019

    I thought Henry VII was 'right of conquest', battlefield coronation and so on. And hadn't George I been designated ever since Anne's surviving child died?

    Yes, but according to primogeniture he was from the junior line, not the senior line. The Act of Settlement however disinherited all his older cousins including James II's son and settled the crown on the only other Protestant, Sophia of Hanover (whose son George was).

    And the reason Henry was able to claim the crown or even win the battle was because the nobles, most importantly Stanley and Northumberland, backed him as King ahead of Richard. Something to do with Richard's nephews having vanished...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We are very likely to leave the EU on a No Deal basis. How on earth would the EMA have functioned in the UK in that scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    There is however a problem with that argument and that is it seems unlikely to function effectively in Amsterdam either. One quarter of their staff have left, and most of the big research centres are still in the UK.

    It's like everything else with Brexit - it's been rushed and therefore it's been bungled.

    Strangely however I am not too worried about that one as after all the US FDA does an awful lot of the actual work on these things. If however the EBA is similarly damaged the world economy is in for a very bumpy ride.

    The approach of a No Deal Brexit shows that the decision to rush was exactly right.

    No deal Brexit is approaching because everything has been done too fast. So actually it tends to undermine your point.
    That timetable was set when we took back control by invoking A50. The movement of the Agency was inevitably triggered by that.

    This is just one of many ways our influence on world affairs is diminished by Brexit, but should surprise no one.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    I am sure a Brexiteer will be along in a minute to tell us that

    1) this never happened. It is all EU lies
    or
    2) this is a great victory for Britain
    or
    3) All of the above...
    It’s a shame, unnecessary and a net negative to world health. But the EU has chosen to do it. I note that they are not highlighting how many EMA staff have chosen to stay in London and work for the MHRA...
    Unnecessary? Seriously delusional. We voted to leave. You support it. What on Earth do you expect?
    I’ve continually argued that the EU and U.K. would benefit from opening up the EMA to non EU members.

    It’sthemselves.

    I think it’s outrageous the Commission itself is not in Norway.

    You may be happy with the institution you support taking actions that will damage public health. I would not be, if I in your shoes.

    It was always going to happen. That doesn’t make it a good thing.

    The EMA is an EU institution that quite obviously should be located within a territory where EU law is sovereign and will remain so.

    We scenario?

    The EMA leaving is the inevitable consequence of the decision voters such as yourself took in June 2016.
    There is however a problem with that argument and that is it seems unlikely to function effectively in Amsterdam either. One quarter of their staff have left, and most of the big research centres are still in the UK.

    It's like everything else with Brexit - it's been rushed and therefore it's been bungled.

    Strangely however I am not too worried about that one as after all the US FDA does an awful lot of the actual work on these things. If however the EBA is similarly damaged the world economy is in for a very bumpy ride.

    The approach of a No Deal Brexit shows that the decision to rush was exactly right.

    No deal Brexit is approaching because everything has been done too fast. So actually it tends to undermine your point.

    Not really. It is approaching because Mrs May triggered Article 50. It was only then that the EMA gave notice of its departure.

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/united-kingdoms-withdrawal-european-union-brexit

    It’s bizarre how Brexiteers can’t handle the inevitable consequences of Brexit.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    When you hear Trump talking to his country as if they're simpletons it's difficult not to think of them like that. A bit like you do with the studio audience of Britain's Got Talent
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