I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
Maybe it's because I'm an old fogey or maybe it's because every time someone explains to me how blockchain works the words fizz in my ears and trickle out again like Otex, but I have yet to see what solutions it offers to existing problems that we haven't already solved through simpler means.
Maybe I’m thick but I don’t understand it either. Sometimes I make myself feel a bit better by rationalising to myself that some of those trying to explain it to me don’t either.
I don’t invest or trade in things I don’t understand.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
Maybe it's because I'm an old fogey or maybe it's because every time someone explains to me how blockchain works the words fizz in my ears and trickle out again like Otex, but I have yet to see what solutions it offers to existing problems that we haven't already solved through simpler means.
It's an attempt to create a trusted financial system without any central regulation. If it worked, it would be a great idea, but thus far, it doesn't.
Bitcoin, as a central idea, is terrible.
The technology, to implement the idea in practice, is awful.
Except, "Extending Article 50 to stop no deal" just delays no deal - unless in that extension you can find an answer that has so far eluded us in 2 years.....
Otherwise, it's the "let's dick around some more" option. Another opportunity to show the voters why MPs don't deserve re-electing.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
No. There is nothing 'blockchain' can do that a regular old database can't do.
Blockchain is a bullshit buzzword that solves no problem that couldn't already be solved by regular computing technology.
Doesn't it solve the problem of trust by creating Immutable records and using proof of stake to incentive participants to act honestly?
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
Mr. Eagles, a while ago I saw a tweet from Susie Dent (from Countdown's dictionary corner) saying we used to use terms like ruthful (I think ruth = mercy), and gorm meant wits, or something similar, but one side of the pairing just dropped from usage.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Because personal interests and socialism come into conflict. That is why I am not a socialist. People tend to be traditional and conservative about things they closely care about. To know what people believe as opposed to what they say you have to ignore words and look at actions. The shoe pinches of course when applied to oneself.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
In what way has it been a scandal?
Bitcoin has undergone several more-or-less identical boom and busts over the years. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the people who were tut tutting about the near-identical fall from 1200 to 350 in 2013-2014. And will probably be the same people groaning about the fall from 170k to 20k in 2022.
Bitcoin increases in scarcity at regular intervals (known as reward halvings), these kick off bull markets which result in the bubbles I have described above. You could actually say that these boom and bust cycles are baked into Bitcoin, a feature not a bug. There is no "scandal" at all here, just the pure economics of a more or less completely unregulated financial product (although regulations are now coming in, it is hard to see how things change dramatically).
Disagreed. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the same people who were moaning about the bubble as it passed 10k towards 20k. Most of them probably hadn't even heard of Bitcoin when it last crashed.
If you think it will reach 170k before 2022 then I have a bridge for sale.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
No. There is nothing 'blockchain' can do that a regular old database can't do.
Blockchain is a bullshit buzzword that solves no problem that couldn't already be solved by regular computing technology.
Doesn't it solve the problem of trust by creating Immutable records and using proof of stake to incentive participants to act honestly?
At a continuously escalating energy cost. And as we’ve seen, has failed to obviate the need for external regulation.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Seamus Milne went to Winchester, an Eton or Winchester education is an ideal route for a Marxist aspiring to a senior Labour Party role
No. Minor public school and Oxbridge = Labour (especially new Labour) Major public school and Oxbridge = Conservative and/or Russian spy Seamus Milne is an anomaly in this regard.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
No. There is nothing 'blockchain' can do that a regular old database can't do.
Blockchain is a bullshit buzzword that solves no problem that couldn't already be solved by regular computing technology.
Isn't there an actual gap in the bitcoin blockchain? Sure I read something about that.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
No. There is nothing 'blockchain' can do that a regular old database can't do.
Blockchain is a bullshit buzzword that solves no problem that couldn't already be solved by regular computing technology.
Doesn't it solve the problem of trust by creating Immutable records and using proof of stake to incentive participants to act honestly?
Lemme put the case for a blockchain, since everyone's taking the piss (which statistically is usually the right response to any given blockchain project you may run into.) Since this is a betting site, let's do a betting example.
Say you want to make a bet with some other poster on the site. Let's also assume you don't trust them, and you wouldn't trust any of the other shady buggers here with your money.
One thing you could do is go to a company that you both trust and make the bet through them. So you'd both make accounts with Betfair, and you'd both send your money to them, and one of you would make an order on Betfair, and the other one would fill it. The information about the bet would be stored in their database, and they'd put in the answer at the end, and hopefully the winner would get their money. That works OK as long is Betfair behave properly, but sometimes companies in charge of people's money turn out not to be trustworthy, as we saw with Intrade, which found itself financially embarrassed after their founder died while trying to climb Mount Everest. Also Betfair may have some regulatory requirements that end up creating costs for them that they have to pass on to you, or may be onerous to you. Finally, Betfair may just not be offering the market you want, and their UI might not be great, and nobody else can build a better UI because they don't have access to Betfair's database.
So the alternative is: What if you had a database that wasn't controlled by anyone? Not only that, what if the database records represented actual money, so that updating the database appropriately meant the right person had the money? That's what a blockchain can do. It's a database that (in theory) isn't controlled by anyone. You have a computer program that controls the rules of under what circumstances you can write data to the database, and writing data to the database allows you to control who gets the money.
The tricky part of this is that somebody somehow needs to tell the database the result of the bet, so the program controlling the money knows who should get it. There's a system called Augur that does this with a rather clever incentive system, which gets people to report on the result and makes it profitable for them to give the right answer. This system probably works, although who knows. So if you make your bet on Augur, you don't need to trust any single person, there's no company in charge of the thing, you can make whatever bet you like, and there shouldn't be a lot of fees.
There are lots of practical downsides to using a system like this, not least that if there's a bug in it you may lose all your money. It's all quite experimental, but the problems are mostly fixable, and if it works I think it's definitely useful.
PS. There's also a thing called a "permissioned blockchain" which companies are supposed to run internally. I've worked on a few systems like this, and they're 100% wank.
"Gate" is a road in Norse, but something that blocks a road in English. Hence Kingsgate Street in Winchester has a gate at the end of it, but Fishergate in Preston is simply the street of the fishermen.
Newark also has both examples. Appletongate and Carter Gate are both from the Norse gata. Millgate and Northgate are named for the actual gates that stood there.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
Does Eton offer a good education? Take Boris, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Cameron, the worst prime minister since Lord North, and Lord North. Are they evidence of good education or good networking?
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
I am not sure what you say is correct. No mental gymnastics are required for someone wanting to change the system, but having to use the current system until it is changed. I want more GPs and a better NHS service, but I am not going to abstain from using a GP or the NHS until that happens.
But when someone has denounced something like private education or private healthcare as actively harmful or unfair, it is clearly hypocritical and wrong to then sign up it.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
In what way has it been a scandal?
Bitcoin has undergone several more-or-less identical boom and busts over the years. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the people who were tut tutting about the near-identical fall from 1200 to 350 in 2013-2014. And will probably be the same people groaning about the fall from 170k to 20k in 2022.
Bitcoin increases in scarcity at regular intervals (known as reward halvings), these kick off bull markets which result in the bubbles I have described above. You could actually say that these boom and bust cycles are baked into Bitcoin, a feature not a bug. There is no "scandal" at all here, just the pure economics of a more or less completely unregulated financial product (although regulations are now coming in, it is hard to see how things change dramatically).
Disagreed. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the same people who were moaning about the bubble as it passed 10k towards 20k. Most of them probably hadn't even heard of Bitcoin when it last crashed.
If you think it will reach 170k before 2022 then I have a bridge for sale.
I think the chances are better than 50/50 and have chosen to put my money there, rather than in your bridge, thanks. It's a bet, but then again, this is a betting site.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
+1. I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
Mr. Eagles, a while ago I saw a tweet from Susie Dent (from Countdown's dictionary corner) saying we used to use terms like ruthful (I think ruth = mercy), and gorm meant wits, or something similar, but one side of the pairing just dropped from usage.
I have always wondered if there was once such a word as 'bauched' given that one can be debauched.
One of my colleagues in language teaching is a linguistic terrorist who invents new English language rules and them solemnly teaches them to his students.
eg #1: 'emoji' is plural and the singular is 'emojus' eg #2: the past participle of the verb 'to email' is 'emul'
Mr. Eagles, a while ago I saw a tweet from Susie Dent (from Countdown's dictionary corner) saying we used to use terms like ruthful (I think ruth = mercy), and gorm meant wits, or something similar, but one side of the pairing just dropped from usage.
I have always wondered if there was once such a word as 'bauched' given that one can be debauched.
You guys need to send John Rentoul a tweet. He spends hours on this kind of discussion.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
Bitcoin is one thing but blockchain might have legitimate uses, perhaps even in tracing supply chains over soft Irish borders.
No. There is nothing 'blockchain' can do that a regular old database can't do.
Blockchain is a bullshit buzzword that solves no problem that couldn't already be solved by regular computing technology.
Doesn't it solve the problem of trust by creating Immutable records and using proof of stake to incentive participants to act honestly?
It does -but (ironically) it can't scale without using incrementally larger amounts of computing resource. Blockchain is a classic case of a 'technology' solution to a very human problem: how do you solve the issue of 'trust' at scale? It's what Yuval Noah Harari's book 'Sapiens' largely told the story of. Humans tend to be able to operate trust networks up to the low hundreds ('The Dunbar number'). Humans invented systems like stories, religion, cash, governments, corporate brands to 'scale up' trust by having larger and larger tribes sign-up to something and follow certain rules to bake-in trust and allow societies to function effectively at scale without breaking down into smaller tribal units.
Blockchain tries to use a tech solution to build in 'implicit' trust at the biggest scale of all: the global Internet (so people don't waste time agonising over whether to trust a contract or transaction, because it's impossible to cheat people, as the 'chain' is incorruptible). The main problem is it's 'paid for' by vast amount of computing time and energy, and assumes no upper limit on both.
Also, those annoying humans who stay wedded to older forms of centralised control hobble 'pure' blockchain solutions through financial regulation which have the techies crying foul. Ultimately the only thing that has 'worked' on blockchain has been various get-rich-quick schemes because it turns out one of the most compelling human need...is greed.
We will find a real-world use for blockchain at some point. But it will be for something that emerges from our ongoing evolution as an always-connected species.
Still following the Betfair odds. I see the implied "Brexit on Schedule" probability has now moved into line with the "No Deal" probability in the low 20s (though the latter doesn't look like a very liquid market). The "Deal to pass Commons by Brexit date" probability is about 5% higher.
Do people have any thoughts on these figures? I have been assuming that if we don't leave on schedule the probability of subsequently leaving without a deal will be low. But on those figures the implication of that would be (say) 22% probability of No Deal in March, PLUS 27% probability of a deal being agreed by Brexit date but not implemented until later. That seems a bit wrong to me.
Some people use 'increased granularity' to mean more detailed. However to me thinking photography, 'increased granularity' means less detailed as the grain size is larger (a 'grainy' photo).
If the buzzword tossers just said 'more detailed' we'd all know what they meant.
Your headers are becoming more poetic. Now the bifurcation looks evitable and the country is going to cleave it's appropriate that our language should deconverge.
You have used the most interesting word in the English language and one I have never properly understood.
To 'Cleave' means to split or sever.
To 'Cleave to' means to stay very close to or to stick to.
Why? It makes no sense. They are almost exact opposites.
I think they come from different roots and it’s just a wonder of the English language that they look and sound the same
On the quiz show "Pointless" yesterday there was a section on contronyms; words that look the same but have opposite meanings. The examples they gave included Dust and Trim which can both mean to remove or add to and Screen, which can mean to show or to block.
Doesn't it solve the problem of trust by creating Immutable records and using proof of stake to incentive participants to act honestly?
It does -but (ironically) it can't scale without using incrementally larger amounts of computing resource. Blockchain is a classic case of a 'technology' solution to a very human problem: how do you solve the issue of 'trust' at scale? It's what Yuval Noah Harari's book 'Sapiens' largely told the story of. Humans tend to be able to operate trust networks up to the low hundreds ('The Dunbar number'). Humans invented systems like stories, religion, cash, governments, corporate brands to 'scale up' trust by having larger and larger tribes sign-up to something and follow certain rules to bake-in trust and allow societies to function effectively at scale without breaking down into smaller tribal units.
Blockchain tries to use a tech solution to build in 'implicit' trust at the biggest scale of all: the global Internet (so people don't waste time agonising over whether to trust a contract or transaction, because it's impossible to cheat people, as the 'chain' is incorruptible). The main problem is it's 'paid for' by vast amount of computing time and energy, and assumes no upper limit on both.
Also, those annoying humans who stay wedded to older forms of centralised control hobble 'pure' blockchain solutions through financial regulation which have the techies crying foul. Ultimately the only thing that has 'worked' on blockchain has been various get-rich-quick schemes because it turns out one of the most compelling human need...is greed.
We will find a real-world use for blockchain at some point. But it will be for something that emerges from our ongoing evolution as an always-connected species.
I think this is a pretty good take, but on the "computing resource" thing:
1) Nearly all the computing power being deployed by current systems is for proof-of-work, which is a barbarous relic. Proof-of-stake is more complex and harder to get right, but once you get it right all that goes away.
2) It's true that it's still an inefficient way to do computing, because lots of nodes in the network all compute the same thing to make sure it's right, but computation power is cheap and social coordination is expensive, so computing resource shouldn't be an inherent limit.
Lemme put the case for a blockchain, since everyone's taking the piss (which statistically is usually the right response to any given blockchain project you may run into.) Since this is a betting site, let's do a betting example.
There are a couple of p2p blockchain betting exchanges about to go live - seems a natural fit.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
I am not sure what you say is correct. No mental gymnastics are required for someone wanting to change the system, but having to use the current system until it is changed. I want more GPs and a better NHS service, but I am not going to abstain from using a GP or the NHS until that happens.
But when someone has denounced something like private education or private healthcare as actively harmful or unfair, it is clearly hypocritical and wrong to then sign up it.
I disagree. I remember Peter Jay being interviewed on the subject and answering it well. You may be against private health care, but if your child needs treatment and private is the way you have to go, would you not on principle?
I'm not in favour of private education and sent my son to a state school. It turned out he was exceptional. particularly at mathematics and was rather isolated from the other kids (he wasn't bullied and they were really nice, but he was considered an oddity). He was given a scholarship to go elsewhere where he could develop more appropriately. Should I have turned it down?
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
One of my colleagues in language teaching is a linguistic terrorist who invents new English language rules and them solemnly teaches them to his students.
eg #1: 'emoji' is plural and the singular is 'emojus' eg #2: the past participle of the verb 'to email' is 'emul'
Your headers are becoming more poetic. Now the bifurcation looks evitable and the country is going to cleave it's appropriate that our language should deconverge.
You have used the most interesting word in the English language and one I have never properly understood.
To 'Cleave' means to split or sever.
To 'Cleave to' means to stay very close to or to stick to.
Why? It makes no sense. They are almost exact opposites.
I think they come from different roots and it’s just a wonder of the English language that they look and sound the same
On the quiz show "Pointless" yesterday there was a section on contronyms; words that look the same but have opposite meanings. The examples they gave included Dust and Trim which can both mean to remove or add to and Screen, which can mean to show or to block.
Mr. Eagles, a while ago I saw a tweet from Susie Dent (from Countdown's dictionary corner) saying we used to use terms like ruthful (I think ruth = mercy), and gorm meant wits, or something similar, but one side of the pairing just dropped from usage.
I have always wondered if there was once such a word as 'bauched' given that one can be debauched.
And flowered isn't exactly the opposite of deflowered.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
In what way has it been a scandal?
Bitcoin has undergone several more-or-less identical boom and busts over the years. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the people who were tut tutting about the near-identical fall from 1200 to 350 in 2013-2014. And will probably be the same people groaning about the fall from 170k to 20k in 2022.
Bitcoin increases in scarcity at regular intervals (known as reward halvings), these kick off bull markets which result in the bubbles I have described above. You could actually say that these boom and bust cycles are baked into Bitcoin, a feature not a bug. There is no "scandal" at all here, just the pure economics of a more or less completely unregulated financial product (although regulations are now coming in, it is hard to see how things change dramatically).
Disagreed. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the same people who were moaning about the bubble as it passed 10k towards 20k. Most of them probably hadn't even heard of Bitcoin when it last crashed.
If you think it will reach 170k before 2022 then I have a bridge for sale.
I think the chances are better than 50/50 and have chosen to put my money there, rather than in your bridge, thanks. It's a bet, but then again, this is a betting site.
We will see and for your sake I hope you win your bet but I view it as unlikely.
The big difference between the last bubble and the one before it was the number of suckers who purchased Bitcoin because of the breathless reporting all over the media. Everyone from the BBC etc through to The Simpson, CSI and Big Bang Theory and more started banging on about it and how fast it was rising triggering people who had never heard of it to "invest" in it.
While blockchain may have a use in the same way as tulips have a use, Bitcoin itself is still overvalued.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
In this case the hypocrisy arises from the fact that he criticises Eton’s charitable status but is happy to benefit personally from it. It’s not quite the same as your analogy.
Hmm. A second referendum has lengthened from 2.5 to 3 on Ladbrokes. It's now only just behind leaving on time with no deal (3.5).
A strange response to Labour moving closer to promoting one.
Perhaps not, maybe it gives May something to rally her party against, oppose Corbyns second chance referendum. She can't be seen to be giving him victory.
Hmm. A second referendum has lengthened from 2.5 to 3 on Ladbrokes. It's now only just behind leaving on time with no deal (3.5).
A strange response to Labour moving closer to promoting one.
Interesting you read far fewer articles about the need for a People's Vote in the past week or so. It is almost as though pro-Remainn figures realise they would probably lose that vote as well...
I think this is a pretty good take, but on the "computing resource" thing:
1) Nearly all the computing power being deployed by current systems is for proof-of-work, which is a barbarous relic. Proof-of-stake is more complex and harder to get right, but once you get it right all that goes away.
2) It's true that it's still an inefficient way to do computing, because lots of nodes in the network all compute the same thing to make sure it's right, but computation power is cheap and social coordination is expensive, so computing resource shouldn't be an inherent limit.
If the truth of the chain is determined by the aggregate computing power of the participants then there is an implicit restriction on how much value can be stored on the chain connected to the value of energy burned by the computation. Too much value to too little computing resource and it becomes economical to attack the chain. So to store larger amounts of value you need to burn more energy - it is invariant to the cheapness of computing resources.
As for proof of stake it seems very much like the fusion power of block chain, always just around the corner. Except at least fusion power had a solid end goal, POS has a million different 'what it is, what it means' descriptions. And as ever it seema the most enthusiastic proponents are just looking to become the new middlemen they purport they are making obsolete.
Mr. Eagles, a while ago I saw a tweet from Susie Dent (from Countdown's dictionary corner) saying we used to use terms like ruthful (I think ruth = mercy), and gorm meant wits, or something similar, but one side of the pairing just dropped from usage.
I have always wondered if there was once such a word as 'bauched' given that one can be debauched.
You guys need to send John Rentoul a tweet. He spends hours on this kind of discussion.
Let's try and get John Rentoul and Susie Dent arguing with each other!
One of my colleagues in language teaching is a linguistic terrorist who invents new English language rules and them solemnly teaches them to his students.
eg #1: 'emoji' is plural and the singular is 'emojus' eg #2: the past participle of the verb 'to email' is 'emul'
I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
That is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is where you criticize other people for doing something that you do yourself.
So, for example, you send your kid to private school but argue against the existence of private schools? That is NOT hypocrisy.
You send your kid to a private school yet slag off others for doing same. That IS hypocrisy.
It is also not hypocritical to be successful in a capitalist economy yet be a socialist.
Neither is it hypocritical to have high moral standards that you don't always live up to.
Being a hypocrite is a go-to insult for the right to be employed against people on the left. When scrutinized against the genuine meaning of the word, the charge is usually groundless.
I have a theory (to do with the psyche of the typical right winger) as to why the H bomb is so popular with them, but that can wait for another day.
As for proof of stake it seems very much like the fusion power of block chain, always just around the corner. Except at least fusion power had a solid end goal, POS has a million different 'what it is, what it means' descriptions. And as ever it seema the most enthusiastic proponents are just looking to become the new middlemen they purport they are making obsolete.
I think that's overstating the case. It's true that Ethereum's proof-of-stake keeps getting put off, and that's the one everyone's waiting for, but there are working, deployed proof-of-stake systems out there - for example, NXT has been around for ages. So it's more like Molten Salt Reactors than Fusion Power - there are definitely working systems out there that prove the concept works, but there's nothing commercially successful to justify the enthusiasm of the enthusiasts.
I disagree. I remember Peter Jay being interviewed on the subject and answering it well. You may be against private health care, but if your child needs treatment and private is the way you have to go, would you not on principle?
I'm not in favour of private education and sent my son to a state school. It turned out he was exceptional. particularly at mathematics and was rather isolated from the other kids (he wasn't bullied and they were really nice, but he was considered an oddity). He was given a scholarship to go elsewhere where he could develop more appropriately. Should I have turned it down?
The world needs another ding-dong like a hole in the head.
My children are smart and would succeed in the private or state sector. I prefer the state sector for my children as IMO it does less harm to the child. I prefer my children to be part of the community and not to be taught they are special or different. I would certainly never board my children, not only would I miss them I beleive to grow up healthy and secure you need to be part of a family.
I can understand people choosing private education to meet a special talent or educational need not covered effectively by the state. But if you pay to hot house pupil X to deny a more talented pupil Y a place at uni that's a bit selfish IMO. If offered a scholarship I would turn it down, but respect you taking the alternative choice.
But if you had campaigned to deny that choice to others, I would not respect you.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
In what way has it been a scandal?
Bitcoin has undergone several more-or-less identical boom and busts over the years. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the people who were tut tutting about the near-identical fall from 1200 to 350 in 2013-2014. And will probably be the same people groaning about the fall from 170k to 20k in 2022.
Bitcoin increases in scarcity at regular intervals (known as reward halvings), these kick off bull markets which result in the bubbles I have described above. You could actually say that these boom and bust cycles are baked into Bitcoin, a feature not a bug. There is no "scandal" at all here, just the pure economics of a more or less completely unregulated financial product (although regulations are now coming in, it is hard to see how things change dramatically).
Disagreed. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the same people who were moaning about the bubble as it passed 10k towards 20k. Most of them probably hadn't even heard of Bitcoin when it last crashed.
If you think it will reach 170k before 2022 then I have a bridge for sale.
I think the chances are better than 50/50 and have chosen to put my money there, rather than in your bridge, thanks. It's a bet, but then again, this is a betting site.
We will see and for your sake I hope you win your bet but I view it as unlikely.
The big difference between the last bubble and the one before it was the number of suckers who purchased Bitcoin because of the breathless reporting all over the media. Everyone from the BBC etc through to The Simpson, CSI and Big Bang Theory and more started banging on about it and how fast it was rising triggering people who had never heard of it to "invest" in it.
While blockchain may have a use in the same way as tulips have a use, Bitcoin itself is still overvalued.
I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
That is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is where you criticize other people for doing something that you do yourself.
So, for example, you send your kid to private school but argue against the existence of private schools? That is NOT hypocrisy.
You send your kid to a private school yet slag off others for doing same. That IS hypocrisy.
It is also not hypocritical to be successful in a capitalist economy yet be a socialist.
Neither is it hypocritical to have high moral standards that you don't always live up to.
Being a hypocrite is a go-to insult for the right to be employed against people on the left. When scrutinized against the genuine meaning of the word, the charge is usually groundless.
I have a theory (to do with the psyche of the typical right winger) as to why the H bomb is so popular with them, but that can wait for another day.
Absolutely. And I don't think you need a psychological theory, it's a very straightforward tactic to police who is allowed to be left wing. Set the standard that you have to wear a hair shirt to be left wing and you've effectively silenced most of your opponents.
+1. I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
Yes, it's a question of balance - how far you attempt to promote your own interests, those around you, and wider society. The degree that you can affect it is relevant too - the literature on effective altruism argues (putting it crudely) that one may be best advised to make loadsa money by whatever dodgy means society still makes legal and then give it all away than to live frugally and buy fair trade coffee, the argument being that you're not making much difference by living frugally but you're transforming lives by making loads and giving it away.
Within reason, I wouldn't call people hypocritical for wanting change but trying to do their best for themselves and their families. It becomes morally very shaky when what you do actually harms others - hence your unwillingness to work for a cigarette company.
I was once offered a project to script a computer game based on The Fourth Protocol, a book that IMO disgustingly distorted Labour's proposals on nuclear disarmament at the time. I turned it down. Possibly I should have taken the job and given the proceeds to the Labour Party. But I'd have felt sleazy, and avoiding that is a relevant factor too.
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
That is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is where you criticize other people for doing something that you do yourself.
So, for example, you send your kid to private school but argue against the existence of private schools? That is NOT hypocrisy.
You send your kid to a private school yet slag off others for doing same. That IS hypocrisy.
It is also not hypocritical to be successful in a capitalist economy yet be a socialist.
Neither is it hypocritical to have high moral standards that you don't always live up to.
Being a hypocrite is a go-to insult for the right to be employed against people on the left. When scrutinized against the genuine meaning of the word, the charge is usually groundless.
I have a theory (to do with the psyche of the typical right winger) as to why the H bomb is so popular with them, but that can wait for another day.
Well thank you. That not only made me feel better about myself but was very logically put.
I have no idea where your last sentence is going and am intrigued.
I disagree. I remember Peter Jay being interviewed on the subject and answering it well. You may be against private health care, but if your child needs treatment and private is the way you have to go, would you not on principle?
I'm not in favour of private education and sent my son to a state school. It turned out he was exceptional. particularly at mathematics and was rather isolated from the other kids (he wasn't bullied and they were really nice, but he was considered an oddity). He was given a scholarship to go elsewhere where he could develop more appropriately. Should I have turned it down?
The world needs another ding-dong like a hole in the head.
My children are smart and would succeed in the private or state sector. I prefer the state sector for my children as IMO it does less harm to the child. I prefer my children to be part of the community and not to be taught they are special or different. I would certainly never board my children, not only would I miss them I beleive to grow up healthy and secure you need to be part of a family.
I can understand people choosing private education to meet a special talent or educational need not covered effectively by the state. But if you pay to hot house pupil X to deny a more talented pupil Y a place at uni that's a bit selfish IMO. If offered a scholarship I would turn it down, but respect you taking the alternative choice.
But if you had campaigned to deny that choice to others, I would not respect you.
FWIW there’s a tradition in the OE community of turning down scholarships if you don’t need them - they created a class of honorary scholarships (Oppidan Scholars vs King’s Scholars) to recognise people who gave the money back. All the returned funds were recirculated into academically bright kids who needed the financial contribution from the Foundation.
I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
That is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is where you criticize other people for doing something that you do yourself.
So, for example, you send your kid to private school but argue against the existence of private schools? That is NOT hypocrisy.
You send your kid to a private school yet slag off others for doing same. That IS hypocrisy.
It is also not hypocritical to be successful in a capitalist economy yet be a socialist.
Neither is it hypocritical to have high moral standards that you don't always live up to.
Being a hypocrite is a go-to insult for the right to be employed against people on the left. When scrutinized against the genuine meaning of the word, the charge is usually groundless.
I have a theory (to do with the psyche of the typical right winger) as to why the H bomb is so popular with them, but that can wait for another day.
Absolutely. And I don't think you need a psychological theory, it's a very straightforward tactic to police who is allowed to be left wing. Set the standard that you have to wear a hair shirt to be left wing and you've effectively silenced most of your opponents.
Not sure.
The right generally think people act in their own interests. They criticise people who act in their own interests while talking about a higher standard. It’s a simple saying one thing / doing another argument.
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
Happy birthday, Malcolm. I'd say "may all your turnips be white" but then they'd be swedes.
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
Happy birthday, Malcolm. I'd say "may all your turnips be white" but then they'd be swedes.
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
Happy birthday, Malcolm. I'd say "may all your turnips be white" but then they'd be swedes.
Let's not reopen the turnip/swede debate. Safer to stick to AV or Brexit!
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
I learned what 'Passable with Care' meant in a Ford Escort one Christmas about 15 years ago. I made the other side of the moor having just about worked out where the road edges were defined by the snow, but have never repeated it.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Disagree with your interpretation. Eton clearly offers a good education. I think that people who want society to improve nonetheless have to do their best in society the way it is. I want short waiting list and superb health care for everyone, but if a relative needed care desperately and the only way to get it in today's world was to pay for it, of course I would. Otherwise anyone who worries about world poverty should logically live in a shack on an average global income. I've heard of ONE person who did exactly that, but it's a lot to ask.
Totally disagree. Someone of his age who is good enough to get a scholarship to Eton does not need to go to Eton to fulfil his/her potential. We are not talking about an 11 year old child here. A genuine socialist would not of his/her free choice seek out and validate an institution that perpetuates privilege. He is a steaming hypocrite. Or he is not a socialist.
I'd be very interested in @Cyclefree's take on bitcoin and blockchain, which has been this generation's defining financial scandal, and so obviously a bubble even while it was inflating.
In what way has it been a scandal?
Bitcoin has undergone several more-or-less identical boom and busts over the years. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the people who were tut tutting about the near-identical fall from 1200 to 350 in 2013-2014. And will probably be the same people groaning about the fall from 170k to 20k in 2022.
Bitcoin increases in scarcity at regular intervals (known as reward halvings), these kick off bull markets which result in the bubbles I have described above. You could actually say that these boom and bust cycles are baked into Bitcoin, a feature not a bug. There is no "scandal" at all here, just the pure economics of a more or less completely unregulated financial product (although regulations are now coming in, it is hard to see how things change dramatically).
Disagreed. The same people moaning about the crash from 20k to 3.5k are the same people who were moaning about the bubble as it passed 10k towards 20k. Most of them probably hadn't even heard of Bitcoin when it last crashed.
If you think it will reach 170k before 2022 then I have a bridge for sale.
I think the chances are better than 50/50 and have chosen to put my money there, rather than in your bridge, thanks. It's a bet, but then again, this is a betting site.
We will see and for your sake I hope you win your bet but I view it as unlikely.
The big difference between the last bubble and the one before it was the number of suckers who purchased Bitcoin because of the breathless reporting all over the media. Everyone from the BBC etc through to The Simpson, CSI and Big Bang Theory and more started banging on about it and how fast it was rising triggering people who had never heard of it to "invest" in it.
While blockchain may have a use in the same way as tulips have a use, Bitcoin itself is still overvalued.
For me it's a simple risk/reward calculation. Based on past performance (we have observed four identical boom/bust cycles over the last decade, and have reasonable knowledge of when / how they start - the halving increasing scarcity), it is reasonable to stick a grand in on the chance of getting ten grand back if you think the chances of a x 10 rise are greater than 1 in 10.
Fwiw, my view is that the value of p2p currency is its resistance to censorship and dilution and that is still significantly undervalued, hence my bet.
I disagree. I remember Peter Jay being interviewed on the subject and answering it well. You may be against private health care, but if your child needs treatment and private is the way you have to go, would you not on principle?
I'm not in favour of private education and sent my son to a state school. It turned out he was exceptional. particularly at mathematics and was rather isolated from the other kids (he wasn't bullied and they were really nice, but he was considered an oddity). He was given a scholarship to go elsewhere where he could develop more appropriately. Should I have turned it down?
The world needs another ding-dong like a hole in the head.
My children are smart and would succeed in the private or state sector. I prefer the state sector for my children as IMO it does less harm to the child. I prefer my children to be part of the community and not to be taught they are special or different. I would certainly never board my children, not only would I miss them I beleive to grow up healthy and secure you need to be part of a family.
I can understand people choosing private education to meet a special talent or educational need not covered effectively by the state. But if you pay to hot house pupil X to deny a more talented pupil Y a place at uni that's a bit selfish IMO. If offered a scholarship I would turn it down, but respect you taking the alternative choice.
But if you had campaigned to deny that choice to others, I would not respect you.
I agree with your first paragraph completely. In fact if you look at an argument I had previously on here I am a firm advocate of the Comprehensive system and I don't believe in private education and normally would always choose a state school (my daughter goes to one).
My son wasn't hot housed, in fact he was the exact opposite, not needing to work hard. However he was exceptional and the state system could not really provide for him. There was nothing really available. I have a maths degree and was teaching him stuff at primary school age that he wouldn't do until A level and that was only because he asked, so the schooling he was getting was pointless and to their credit the school identified this also.
Under those circumstances would you still keep to your principles to detriment of your child?
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
malc
have a good one
and by the time youve sobered up you can start all over again for Burns night :-)
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
Happy birthday, Malcolm. I'd say "may all your turnips be white" but then they'd be swedes.
Thank you and it has started snowing.
Have a great birthday Malc - you are one up on me, I don't get one this year (leap year)
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
Happy birthday Malcolm. I was surprised on Sunday when I was going up to Inverness how little snow there was. There's more now! Its a wee while since I have driven in conditions like that but by the time I was down to Blairgowrie it had switched to sleet and there is no snow here this morning.
I was hearing from locals that the snow resorts at Aviemore are really, really struggling this year. The ski lift is broken and the Cairngorm gondola has not been working for much of the season either. With an absence of snow cover I fear that some of those businesses will not survive unless the season goes long.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
As ever with labour their commitment to a second referendum is a fudge. They want to negotiate a better deal first and then put it to a referendum. However, Sky reporting that no one is sure Corbyn would vote for it or whip it and in addition several of the shadow front bench would resign and 30 plus labour mps would vote against.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
I certainly fall into that definition of being a hypocrite and don't feel guilty about it at all. There is a big difference between doing what is right for society and your own personal life. It is a balance. I like to think I am a moral person and there are things I won't do even if legal. I don't think I could work for a tobacco company for instance, but equally I accept I live in the real world and do things personally that are for me, family or friends that are not helpful to the greater good.
That is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is where you criticize other people for doing something that you do yourself.
So, for example, you send your kid to private school but argue against the existence of private schools? That is NOT hypocrisy.
You send your kid to a private school yet slag off others for doing same. That IS hypocrisy.
It is also not hypocritical to be successful in a capitalist economy yet be a socialist.
Neither is it hypocritical to have high moral standards that you don't always live up to.
Being a hypocrite is a go-to insult for the right to be employed against people on the left. When scrutinized against the genuine meaning of the word, the charge is usually groundless.
I have a theory (to do with the psyche of the typical right winger) as to why the H bomb is so popular with them, but that can wait for another day.
Absolutely. And I don't think you need a psychological theory, it's a very straightforward tactic to police who is allowed to be left wing. Set the standard that you have to wear a hair shirt to be left wing and you've effectively silenced most of your opponents.
Not sure.
The right generally think people act in their own interests. They criticise people who act in their own interests while talking about a higher standard. It’s a simple saying one thing / doing another argument.
Yep - see the Conservative party, patriotism and Brexit.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
It's going to get up to 8C on Friday. Goodness knows how I'll cope with the soaring mercury.
I was pretty lucky to get through the Dromochter Pass last night. Blizzard conditions. If I'd been there half an hour later I would not have fancied my chances.
We are supposed to get high of 2 or 3 today. Snow inland but not here, I was hoping for a White Birthday.
Happy birthday, Malcolm. I'd say "may all your turnips be white" but then they'd be swedes.
Thank you and it has started snowing.
Have a great birthday Malc - you are one up on me, I don't get one this year (leap year)
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
My understanding is he also eats nice food whilst claiming children shouldn't go hungry in other countries the bastard.
Damn - I wrote paragraphs of stuff and that one sentence was so much better than all my waffle.
and just as nonsensical, I'd warrant.
Did you read it to find out.
Yes but it wasn't the same point that @TheJezzmeister was making.
Oh I'm now confused. Did you think I was talking nonsense earlier? if so why?
You have to give him credit for a pithy post.
Yes it's true it was a pithy post. But illogical in that he says that the bloke shouldn't be criticised and uses the analogy of how ridiculous it would be to criticise him for eating food while millions starve. But that is precisely what lefties like him do with Tories and foodbanks - criticise them for being rich toffs, while there are foodbanks in the country.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
My understanding is he also eats nice food whilst claiming children shouldn't go hungry in other countries the bastard.
Socialists do not actively seek out and then validate institutions which perpetuate wealth-based privilege.
Socialism is a political theory not a religion.
If he changes his criticism of it because of personal benefit then that would be hypocrisy, using the system that currently exists rather than punishing yourself out of opposition to it makes sense. You also have to acquire some power and resources within the current system to try and change the system.
If all socialists lived in some self induced poverty by refusing to engage in the capitalist system (or some variation) then they would have less chance of changing the world for the better.
Obviously there are lines and if you are crushing and killing the poor to 'liberate' them you've probably lost your way somewhere but this doesn't seem the crossing of the line.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
My understanding is he also eats nice food whilst claiming children shouldn't go hungry in other countries the bastard.
Socialists do not actively seek out and then validate institutions which perpetuate wealth-based privilege.
Socialism is a political theory not a religion.
If he changes his criticism of it because of personal benefit then that would be hypocrisy, using the system that currently exists rather than punishing yourself out of opposition to it makes sense. You also have to acquire some power and resources within the current system to try and change the system.
If all socialists lived in some self induced poverty by refusing to engage in the capitalist system (or some variation) then they would have less chance of changing the world for the better.
Obviously there are lines and if you are crushing and killing the poor to 'liberate' them you've probably lost your way somewhere but this doesn't seem the crossing of the line.
Eton is not in the state system, it is outside it - that is the whole point. The choice was not Eton or a bad education.
Why are Labour people such hypocrites when it comes to education?
A teenager from the East End of London has accepted a £76,000 scholarship to Eton despite calling the elite public school “absurd and corrupt”.
Hasan Patel became the youngest speaker at a party conference for one of the main political parties when he gave a rousing speech to Labour members last September at the age of 15.
He has 20,000 followers on Twitter as @CorbynistaTeen. Last August he tweeted: “Private schools such as Eton will save £522 million in tax over the next five years thanks to their absurd and corrupt charitable status. Meanwhile ‘peasants’ like me who attend ordinary state schools have teachers spending their own money on basic equipment such as glue sticks.”
Yet within weeks he was sitting the entrance exam and undergoing intensive interviews to win a place.
Comments
The technology, to implement the idea in practice, is awful.
Otherwise, it's the "let's dick around some more" option. Another opportunity to show the voters why MPs don't deserve re-electing.
Because personal interests and socialism come into conflict. That is why I am not a socialist. People tend to be traditional and conservative about things they closely care about. To know what people believe as opposed to what they say you have to ignore words and look at actions. The shoe pinches of course when applied to oneself.
If you think it will reach 170k before 2022 then I have a bridge for sale.
Doesn't mean he can't go there, maybe he can get a good education, go into politics and change it!
Or Jezza may beat him to it
And as we’ve seen, has failed to obviate the need for external regulation.
Minor public school and Oxbridge = Labour (especially new Labour)
Major public school and Oxbridge = Conservative and/or Russian spy
Seamus Milne is an anomaly in this regard.
https://twitter.com/bbcsport/status/1087638802947026944?s=21
Say you want to make a bet with some other poster on the site. Let's also assume you don't trust them, and you wouldn't trust any of the other shady buggers here with your money.
One thing you could do is go to a company that you both trust and make the bet through them. So you'd both make accounts with Betfair, and you'd both send your money to them, and one of you would make an order on Betfair, and the other one would fill it. The information about the bet would be stored in their database, and they'd put in the answer at the end, and hopefully the winner would get their money. That works OK as long is Betfair behave properly, but sometimes companies in charge of people's money turn out not to be trustworthy, as we saw with Intrade, which found itself financially embarrassed after their founder died while trying to climb Mount Everest. Also Betfair may have some regulatory requirements that end up creating costs for them that they have to pass on to you, or may be onerous to you. Finally, Betfair may just not be offering the market you want, and their UI might not be great, and nobody else can build a better UI because they don't have access to Betfair's database.
So the alternative is: What if you had a database that wasn't controlled by anyone? Not only that, what if the database records represented actual money, so that updating the database appropriately meant the right person had the money? That's what a blockchain can do. It's a database that (in theory) isn't controlled by anyone. You have a computer program that controls the rules of under what circumstances you can write data to the database, and writing data to the database allows you to control who gets the money.
The tricky part of this is that somebody somehow needs to tell the database the result of the bet, so the program controlling the money knows who should get it. There's a system called Augur that does this with a rather clever incentive system, which gets people to report on the result and makes it profitable for them to give the right answer. This system probably works, although who knows. So if you make your bet on Augur, you don't need to trust any single person, there's no company in charge of the thing, you can make whatever bet you like, and there shouldn't be a lot of fees.
There are lots of practical downsides to using a system like this, not least that if there's a bug in it you may lose all your money. It's all quite experimental, but the problems are mostly fixable, and if it works I think it's definitely useful.
PS. There's also a thing called a "permissioned blockchain" which companies are supposed to run internally. I've worked on a few systems like this, and they're 100% wank.
But when someone has denounced something like private education or private healthcare as actively harmful or unfair, it is clearly hypocritical and wrong to then sign up it.
eg #1: 'emoji' is plural and the singular is 'emojus'
eg #2: the past participle of the verb 'to email' is 'emul'
Blockchain tries to use a tech solution to build in 'implicit' trust at the biggest scale of all: the global Internet (so people don't waste time agonising over whether to trust a contract or transaction, because it's impossible to cheat people, as the 'chain' is incorruptible). The main problem is it's 'paid for' by vast amount of computing time and energy, and assumes no upper limit on both.
Also, those annoying humans who stay wedded to older forms of centralised control hobble 'pure' blockchain solutions through financial regulation which have the techies crying foul. Ultimately the only thing that has 'worked' on blockchain has been various get-rich-quick schemes because it turns out one of the most compelling human need...is greed.
We will find a real-world use for blockchain at some point. But it will be for something that emerges from our ongoing evolution as an always-connected species.
Do people have any thoughts on these figures? I have been assuming that if we don't leave on schedule the probability of subsequently leaving without a deal will be low. But on those figures the implication of that would be (say) 22% probability of No Deal in March, PLUS 27% probability of a deal being agreed by Brexit date but not implemented until later. That seems a bit wrong to me.
Some people use 'increased granularity' to mean more detailed. However to me thinking photography, 'increased granularity' means less detailed as the grain size is larger (a 'grainy' photo).
If the buzzword tossers just said 'more detailed' we'd all know what they meant.
1) Nearly all the computing power being deployed by current systems is for proof-of-work, which is a barbarous relic. Proof-of-stake is more complex and harder to get right, but once you get it right all that goes away.
2) It's true that it's still an inefficient way to do computing, because lots of nodes in the network all compute the same thing to make sure it's right, but computation power is cheap and social coordination is expensive, so computing resource shouldn't be an inherent limit.
There are a couple of p2p blockchain betting exchanges about to go live - seems a natural fit.
I'm not in favour of private education and sent my son to a state school. It turned out he was exceptional. particularly at mathematics and was rather isolated from the other kids (he wasn't bullied and they were really nice, but he was considered an oddity). He was given a scholarship to go elsewhere where he could develop more appropriately. Should I have turned it down?
But what about emulate ?
Also known as "Janus words" , after the two-faced Roman god.
https://www.thoughtco.com/janus-word-contranym-1691087
The big difference between the last bubble and the one before it was the number of suckers who purchased Bitcoin because of the breathless reporting all over the media. Everyone from the BBC etc through to The Simpson, CSI and Big Bang Theory and more started banging on about it and how fast it was rising triggering people who had never heard of it to "invest" in it.
While blockchain may have a use in the same way as tulips have a use, Bitcoin itself is still overvalued.
As for proof of stake it seems very much like the fusion power of block chain, always just around the corner. Except at least fusion power had a solid end goal, POS has a million different 'what it is, what it means' descriptions. And as ever it seema the most enthusiastic proponents are just looking to become the new middlemen they purport they are making obsolete.
So, for example, you send your kid to private school but argue against the existence of private schools? That is NOT hypocrisy.
You send your kid to a private school yet slag off others for doing same. That IS hypocrisy.
It is also not hypocritical to be successful in a capitalist economy yet be a socialist.
Neither is it hypocritical to have high moral standards that you don't always live up to.
Being a hypocrite is a go-to insult for the right to be employed against people on the left. When scrutinized against the genuine meaning of the word, the charge is usually groundless.
I have a theory (to do with the psyche of the typical right winger) as to why the H bomb is so popular with them, but that can wait for another day.
My children are smart and would succeed in the private or state sector. I prefer the state sector for my children as IMO it does less harm to the child. I prefer my children to be part of the community and not to be taught they are special or different. I would certainly never board my children, not only would I miss them I beleive to grow up healthy and secure you need to be part of a family.
I can understand people choosing private education to meet a special talent or educational need not covered effectively by the state. But if you pay to hot house pupil X to deny a more talented pupil Y a place at uni that's a bit selfish IMO. If offered a scholarship I would turn it down, but respect you taking the alternative choice.
But if you had campaigned to deny that choice to others, I would not respect you.
Within reason, I wouldn't call people hypocritical for wanting change but trying to do their best for themselves and their families. It becomes morally very shaky when what you do actually harms others - hence your unwillingness to work for a cigarette company.
I was once offered a project to script a computer game based on The Fourth Protocol, a book that IMO disgustingly distorted Labour's proposals on nuclear disarmament at the time. I turned it down. Possibly I should have taken the job and given the proceeds to the Labour Party. But I'd have felt sleazy, and avoiding that is a relevant factor too.
I have no idea where your last sentence is going and am intrigued.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1087348666283773959?ncid=newsletter-ukThe Waugh Zone 220119&utm_campaign=newsletter-The Waugh Zone 220119
The right generally think people act in their own interests. They criticise people who act in their own interests while talking about a higher standard. It’s a simple saying one thing / doing another argument.
EDIT: And Happy Birthday.
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/
Meanwhile, I have work to do.
Fwiw, my view is that the value of p2p currency is its resistance to censorship and dilution and that is still significantly undervalued, hence my bet.
My son wasn't hot housed, in fact he was the exact opposite, not needing to work hard. However he was exceptional and the state system could not really provide for him. There was nothing really available. I have a maths degree and was teaching him stuff at primary school age that he wouldn't do until A level and that was only because he asked, so the schooling he was getting was pointless and to their credit the school identified this also.
Under those circumstances would you still keep to your principles to detriment of your child?
have a good one
and by the time youve sobered up you can start all over again for Burns night :-)
And it is gently snowing
I was hearing from locals that the snow resorts at Aviemore are really, really struggling this year. The ski lift is broken and the Cairngorm gondola has not been working for much of the season either. With an absence of snow cover I fear that some of those businesses will not survive unless the season goes long.
'nothing has changed'
You have to give him credit for a pithy post.
Was my point.
If he changes his criticism of it because of personal benefit then that would be hypocrisy, using the system that currently exists rather than punishing yourself out of opposition to it makes sense. You also have to acquire some power and resources within the current system to try and change the system.
If all socialists lived in some self induced poverty by refusing to engage in the capitalist system (or some variation) then they would have less chance of changing the world for the better.
Obviously there are lines and if you are crushing and killing the poor to 'liberate' them you've probably lost your way somewhere but this doesn't seem the crossing of the line.