"What happens if you can't support yourself? Freedom of movement means you can't be deported. Curious."
No it doesn't.
In theory if you become a burden on the host state you can be deported - Belgium has had a record of being tough on this. Even people entitled to welfare but who don't claim have had their status threatened - as well as low paid workers who get injured at work and need healthcare/can't work for some time.
By contrast Portugal actively encourages EU retirees with tax incentives.
"Brexit, viewed from Europe, is looking to many like a particularly British mess. But what if we’re the baddies?
It’s an unpopular idea on this side of the Channel. But the Brexit impasse is not British Prime Minister Theresa May’s fault. Rather, it’s the negotiation process itself that set us up for failure — and the blame for that lies first and foremost with Brussels."
"There are political and reputational risks as well. As the negotiation process disintegrates, most of the world will turn to Brussels and ask why, once again, the EU appears unable to reach a speedy and efficient resolution to its problems."
!Luckily, there is an alternative: Go back to the drawing board and declare the Withdrawal Agreement successfully concluded — without the Irish question.!!
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
The Queen is effectively powerless because her powers are exercised by the PM and Ministers. Quite rightly.
If the PM says to veto a bill then constitutionally the Queen must do so or she is acting on her own accord and not on the advice of the PM.
I see IATA are loudly pointing out the thing that I was pointing out about the no-deal Brexit flights deal that has been signed. Fuck loads of flights will be cancelled.
The flights haven't been allocated yet, so they can't be cancelled.
Perhaps there will be fewer flights than there would have been - I'm not even sure how we would know.
Jet2, for example, are definitely selling tickets for their expanded summer timetable. In the event of no deal Brexit many of those tickets are going to be cancelled.
I think Harris has a shot at the nomination especially with her home state voting earlier with its large number of delegates but in the general election she will find it tougher, it is Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc the Democrats need to make inroads in the Electoral College not California which is already safely in their column.
O/T My father's bowel surgery seems to have gone OK and he is now out of theatre, thanks again to those who sent messages last Friday evening
Missed that news @HYUFD - thinking of you and your family.
"What happens if you can't support yourself? Freedom of movement means you can't be deported. Curious."
No it doesn't.
In theory if you become a burden on the host state you can be deported - Belgium has had a record of being tough on this. Even people entitled to welfare but who don't claim have had their status threatened - as well as low paid workers who get injured at work and need healthcare/can't work for some time.
By contrast Portugal actively encourages EU retirees with tax incentives.
"How much are the EU charging for the same arrangement?"
Perhaps we should compare what you have to do when you move there initially. Here a job offer - and not even that - is all you need and then its full access to the UK welfare and NHS without the need to register with the local police or local authority. Here is what the Spanish require - and they are not unusual. I expect all that paperwork and registration and travel to the authorities (as it cant be done online) costs more than £65!
"A guide for EU, EEA and Swiss citizens – and their family members – coming to live, work or study in Spain.
EU, EEA and Swiss citizens have the right to live and work in Spain without a visa or permit.
If you’re staying longer than three months, however, you will have to register with the authorities and obtain a residence certificate, which requires you to prove you can support yourself financially and have healthcare insurance.
EU/EEA/Swiss nationals moving to Spain Within three months of your arrival in Spain, you have to go in person to a Foreigners’ Office (Oficina de Extranjero) or local police station to register and be added to the Central Register of Foreign Nationals. You will need to have a valid passport or ID document and be able to show documentation to prove that you can support yourself (and any dependants), and you may also be asked to show evidence that you have private or public healthcare insurance.
This documentation you’ll need will vary according to your own circumstances, but can include:
a declaration or certificate of employment, or evidence of self-employment (such as registration on the Mercantile Registry – Registro Mercantil); evidence of healthcare insurance (or European Health Insurance Card if valid for the duration of the stay); proof of sufficient financial resources (through income, assets, etc); proof of enrolment at an educational institution. If everything is in order, you will be given a residence certificate (Certificado de registro como residente comunitario), which will include your name, address, nationality and your Foreigner’s Identity Number (NIE). This number is essential for all financial and administrative matters in Spain.
You should carry your certificate, along with your passport or national ID document, at all times."
What happens if you can't support yourself? Freedom of movement means you can't be deported. Curious.
Yes you can. Freedom of Movement means you can move to a European state but if you do not have a job or sufficient means to support yourself you can be deported after 3 months.
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
No it certainly wouldn't. Not with well over a million foreigners having come here since the referendum.
Gosh, really?
Maybe we shouldn't have had a referendum then, if it's caused a lot of (spits) foreigners to come here.
I think Harris has a shot at the nomination especially with her home state voting earlier with its large number of delegates but in the general election she will find it tougher, it is Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc the Democrats need to make inroads in the Electoral College not California which is already safely in their column.
O/T My father's bowel surgery seems to have gone OK and he is now out of theatre, thanks again to those who sent messages last Friday evening
Missed that news @HYUFD - thinking of you and your family.
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
This is the great irony previously noted. Theresa May is dying in a ditch to end FoM yet no-one in government or business wants actually to curb immigration.
Really? Good grief! If only Cameron had known that he could just have told people, instead of going through all that business of renegotiations, referendums, resignations and so on.
Those weren't about curbing migration. We care about sovereignty not your twisted concerns about keeping out in your words "a lot of (spits) foreigners".
"What happens if you can't support yourself? Freedom of movement means you can't be deported. Curious."
No it doesn't.
In theory if you become a burden on the host state you can be deported - Belgium has had a record of being tough on this. Even people entitled to welfare but who don't claim have had their status threatened - as well as low paid workers who get injured at work and need healthcare/can't work for some time.
By contrast Portugal actively encourages EU retirees with tax incentives.
It's almost like we didn't need to leave the EU to control immigration and stop the 'spongers' misusing the NHS and out benefits system.
Not many countries have the following all in operation - even Ireland has charges for healthcare and a public services card now and in eastern and central Europe housing benefit doesn't exist. And beyond the EHIC 3 month period many nations require you to have private medical insurance - as access to the national healthcare scheme is not automatic.
Universal health care free at the point of use a non contributory benefits system - where need not length of residency or contributions determine entitlements a tax credit system which tops up the pay of employers paying low wages a housing benefit system which provides free or subsidised housing to those who cannot afford their rent an effectively unregulated labour market - just get an NI number online and off you go lack of controls over residency i.e. no requirement to register with your local police or council no national ID card or residency card to confirm entitlement to access public services and welfare and finally the English language which most learn at school
If we had had more such controls in place Windrush might never have happened - as those entitled to be here would have had an ID or public services card long term even if they lacked other proof of residency. Even Ireland has a public services card now - it didn't exist in 2012 but now 75% of the population has one.
Free for all employment laws, free healthcare at the point of use (with little or no follow up on those who should be paying but don't as its 'immoral'), lack of ID cards in whatever form and a generous non contributory welfare system which does not differentiate between those who have paid in for 30 years as opposed to 30 days is what has caused our issues. And weak politicians of course!
"Brexit, viewed from Europe, is looking to many like a particularly British mess. But what if we’re the baddies?
It’s an unpopular idea on this side of the Channel. But the Brexit impasse is not British Prime Minister Theresa May’s fault. Rather, it’s the negotiation process itself that set us up for failure — and the blame for that lies first and foremost with Brussels."
"There are political and reputational risks as well. As the negotiation process disintegrates, most of the world will turn to Brussels and ask why, once again, the EU appears unable to reach a speedy and efficient resolution to its problems."
!Luckily, there is an alternative: Go back to the drawing board and declare the Withdrawal Agreement successfully concluded — without the Irish question.!!
!Luckily, there is an alternative: Go back to the drawing board and declare the Withdrawal Agreement successfully concluded — without the Irish question.!!
It's odd, because Article 50 actually says the EU shall "negotiate and conclude" a Withdrawal Agreement with the member state in question - not just offer one.
If we leave without a deal, to all appearances the Union will be in breach of its obligation under the treaty.
The ECJ has already ruled that paragraph 3 should really have said "or unless the Member State revokes its notification". The whole thing seems to have been very sloppily worded.
"A second security alert is underway in Londonderry after a Royal Mail van was hijacked at gunpoint and abandoned.
Police are currently at the scene of a security alert in the Circular Road area of Londonderry, while another security alert is taking place less than a mile away on Southway."
All worth it to reinstate properly bendy bananas.
You really think this is Brexit related?
No, after over a decade of relative calm, the resurgence of violence and bombs in N. Ireland at the time of intense political discord between the UK and Ireland, and the potential re-introduction of the border, is a complete coincidence.
Non-sarcastic response: I do.
Because hijacking a Royal Mail van is all about a hard border in Ireland..... non-sarcastic eye-roll.
Much more likely to be about where the border between one drugs gang and another is.
48 hours after a bomb goes off outside a courthouse, and is linked to dissident republicans.
It might be a coincidence, but flat out denial that's it's a possibility because you support Brexit is truly worth of an eye-roll.
You think dissident republicans arrived with Brexit?
Eye-roll.....
There are no tanks in Baghdad.
There are no points in your comments.....
You should however consider applying to be a government press spokesman in the event that we do end up leaving with no deal. As Comical Mark you could keep us all entertained.
Indeed. All we need is some kind of large circus tent in which to hold it. Sort of like a mar[Yes we got it - Ed]
!Luckily, there is an alternative: Go back to the drawing board and declare the Withdrawal Agreement successfully concluded — without the Irish question.!!
It's odd, because Article 50 actually says the EU shall "negotiate and conclude" a Withdrawal Agreement with the member state in question - not just offer one.
If we leave without a deal, to all appearances the Union will be in breach of its obligation under the treaty.
The ECJ has already ruled that paragraph 3 should really have said "or unless the Member State revokes its notification". The whole thing seems to have been very sloppily worded.
So why not just take the Irish section out completely - a deal passes in the Uk.
Can kicked - who could argue with it bar the ultra Remainers ?
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
This is the great irony previously noted. Theresa May is dying in a ditch to end FoM yet no-one in government or business wants actually to curb immigration.
Really? Good grief! If only Cameron had known that he could just have told people, instead of going through all that business of renegotiations, referendums, resignations and so on.
Those weren't about curbing migration. We care about sovereignty not your twisted concerns about keeping out in your words "a lot of (spits) foreigners".
The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now.
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
Surely HM could at least get The Duke of Edinburgh to give TM a lift home.
"A second security alert is underway in Londonderry after a Royal Mail van was hijacked at gunpoint and abandoned.
Police are currently at the scene of a security alert in the Circular Road area of Londonderry, while another security alert is taking place less than a mile away on Southway."
All worth it to reinstate properly bendy bananas.
You really think this is Brexit related?
No, after over a decade of relative calm, the resurgence of violence and bombs in N. Ireland at the time of intense political discord between the UK and Ireland, and the potential re-introduction of the border, is a complete coincidence.
Non-sarcastic response: I do.
Because hijacking a Royal Mail van is all about a hard border in Ireland..... non-sarcastic eye-roll.
Much more likely to be about where the border between one drugs gang and another is.
48 hours after a bomb goes off outside a courthouse, and is linked to dissident republicans.
It might be a coincidence, but flat out denial that's it's a possibility because you support Brexit is truly worth of an eye-roll.
You think dissident republicans arrived with Brexit?
Eye-roll.....
There are no tanks in Baghdad.
There are no points in your comments.....
You should however consider applying to be a government press spokesman in the event that we do end up leaving with no deal. As Comical Mark you could keep us all entertained.
Indeed. All we need is some kind of large circus tent in which to hold it. Sort of like a mar[Yes we got it - Ed]
You want me to be the Ringmaster, to the clown troupe that is the rest of you?
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
No it certainly wouldn't. Not with well over a million foreigners having come here since the referendum.
Gosh, really?
Maybe we shouldn't have had a referendum then, if it's caused a lot of (spits) foreigners to come here.
Only for small-minded ignoramuses like yourself.
??????
I was responding to your post about "well over a million foreigners having come here since the referendum". Are you suffering from short-term memory loss, perhaps?
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
This is the great irony previously noted. Theresa May is dying in a ditch to end FoM yet no-one in government or business wants actually to curb immigration.
Really? Good grief! If only Cameron had known that he could just have told people, instead of going through all that business of renegotiations, referendums, resignations and so on.
Those weren't about curbing migration. We care about sovereignty not your twisted concerns about keeping out in your words "a lot of (spits) foreigners".
The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now.
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
In the absence of reforming our non contributory welfare/housing benefit and tax credits system - which is seemingly a no no.
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
In the absence of reforming our non contributory welfare/housing benefit and tax credits system - which is seemingly a no no.
I do think there's some validity to this argument, but I certainly didn't get the impression it was the motivation for a significant proportion of Leave voters.
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
This is the great irony previously noted. Theresa May is dying in a ditch to end FoM yet no-one in government or business wants actually to curb immigration.
Really? Good grief! If only Cameron had known that he could just have told people, instead of going through all that business of renegotiations, referendums, resignations and so on.
Cameron did know. Look at the immigration figures while he was at Number 10.
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
Of course. Hence the prominence given to the prospect of large numbers of Turks, Syrians and Iraqis coming to the UK. Almost entirely ... white Europeans!
I think Harris has a shot at the nomination especially with her home state voting earlier with its large number of delegates but in the general election she will find it tougher, it is Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc the Democrats need to make inroads in the Electoral College not California which is already safely in their column.
O/T My father's bowel surgery seems to have gone OK and he is now out of theatre, thanks again to those who sent messages last Friday evening
Missed that news @HYUFD - thinking of you and your family.
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
"A second security alert is underway in Londonderry after a Royal Mail van was hijacked at gunpoint and abandoned.
Police are currently at the scene of a security alert in the Circular Road area of Londonderry, while another security alert is taking place less than a mile away on Southway."
All worth it to reinstate properly bendy bananas.
You really think this is Brexit related?
No, after over a decade of relative calm, the resurgence of violence and bombs in N. Ireland at the time of intense political discord between the UK and Ireland, and the potential re-introduction of the border, is a complete coincidence.
Non-sarcastic response: I do.
Because hijacking a Royal Mail van is all about a hard border in Ireland..... non-sarcastic eye-roll.
Much more likely to be about where the border between one drugs gang and another is.
48 hours after a bomb goes off outside a courthouse, and is linked to dissident republicans.
It might be a coincidence, but flat out denial that's it's a possibility because you support Brexit is truly worth of an eye-roll.
You think dissident republicans arrived with Brexit?
Eye-roll.....
There are no tanks in Baghdad.
There are no points in your comments.....
You should however consider applying to be a government press spokesman in the event that we do end up leaving with no deal. As Comical Mark you could keep us all entertained.
Indeed. All we need is some kind of large circus tent in which to hold it. Sort of like a mar[Yes we got it - Ed]
You want me to be the Ringmaster, to the clown troupe that is the rest of you?
OK. Enjoy the pie-fight....!
I've always found the word "ringmaster" to be indelibly pervy...
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
Of course. Hence the prominence given to the prospect of large numbers of Turks, Syrians and Iraqis coming to the UK. Almost entirely ... white Europeans!
So you think we should prioritise highly skilled Slovakian waitresses and Bulgarian car washers for immigration to the UK over Iraqi doctors and Syrian engineers? Because of course post Brexit we can prioritise the latter over the former (assuming of course we end freedom of movement as it currently operates)?
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
Perhaps but who knows what the next few weeks will bring
I think Harris has a shot at the nomination especially with her home state voting earlier with its large number of delegates but in the general election she will find it tougher, it is Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc the Democrats need to make inroads in the Electoral College not California which is already safely in their column.
O/T My father's bowel surgery seems to have gone OK and he is now out of theatre, thanks again to those who sent messages last Friday evening
Missed that news @HYUFD - thinking of you and your family.
May seemingly has an infinite capacity to disappoint.
I know what you mean. I kick myself for believing that next time she will come up with something innovative, or clever, or novel. But she just does and says the same thing, over and over again. She is the most boring, uninventive politician in living memory. She has a very dull mind.
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
Of course. Hence the prominence given to the prospect of large numbers of Turks, Syrians and Iraqis coming to the UK. Almost entirely ... white Europeans!
So you think we should prioritise highly skilled Slovakian waitresses and Bulgarian car washers for immigration to the UK over Iraqi doctors and Syrian engineers? Because of course post Brexit we can prioritise the latter over the former (assuming of course we end freedom of movement as it currently operates)?
I'm just pointing out what utter drivel you're talking when you say Leave was campaigning against white European immigration. Don't insult people's intelligence.
He could theoretically run for both but it would detract from his chances in both, so I would doubt that very much. The Dems won big in the midterms (on a national equivalent vote basis; obviously they actually lost Senate seats).
Well played for being green/neutral already! Have limited Beto losses, but still think in his shoes I'd go for senate and set myself up as a front-runner for 2024/2028. A Dem who can deliver Texas is the dream. Also think he is more moderate than people realise at present, which may be a disadvantage this time.
Overall, I'm very green on some longshots like Brown, Hickenlooper, Castro and Bullock. Otherwise the book is moderately red with Trump (implied as I have bets he won't finish his term) and Sanders my worst results. I'm fine with being deep red on Oprah and Michele, I dont think they will run.
The main criticisms of Theresa May's position come down to people complaining that she continues to refuse to say that the impossible is possible. So, yes, nothing has changed, because the reality hasn't changed.
That this simple, self-evident truth needs to be repeated so often beggars belief. Fair enough to have to drill it into the thick skulls of MPs. But this is PB where we should know better.
She will not revoke A50, which would take No Deal off the table. If MPs do wish to revoke A50, then they can vote her out of office.
Well I still think (ha haha hahahahaha) that the deal will get through. I mean it seems impossible. The DUP won't all of a sudden change their minds, and nor it seems and despite the appeals today, will a significant number of Lab MPs. Cons headbangers on both sides won't either.
And yet.
The deal is the only possible iteration of Brexit. There simple INA.
So the next few days and weeks will be nothing if not exciting. But we know the ending. The deal.
You vastly overestimate the willingness of hundreds of career politicians to put the good of the country first.
It's bonkers, but, simply, we cannot leave with a question mark over the Irish border. Leaving without a backstop is doing exactly that. No PM could ever ( @Philip_Thompson pls note) lead us onto a path, one consequence of which is a return to the Troubles. Even May, useless and falling short as she is and does, realises that (or perhaps a favoured adviser has had to tell her). So for all her undoubted many ills, she is rightly holding on to that. And once that is an immovable object, the rest has to fall into place around it.
A pre application to WTO to get a ruling that a special situation applies in Ireland would be a solution that might have worked
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
Perhaps but who knows what the next few weeks will bring
May will be obdurate, Corbyn will be duplicitous. MPs will be headless chickens, the EU will do what it said it was going to do. Bonus points if somebody tries to bypass the Comission by going directly to one or more national leader.
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
Perhaps but who knows what the next few weeks will bring
Yes, I suppose it's the kind of rule that's true until it isn't. Still, it has the ring of fanfiction about it. Same goes for talk of a government of national unity
It does increasingly seem that May wants the HoC to dictate the way forward to her if this Guardian report of her exchange with Cooper is anything to go by:
Labour’s Yvette Cooper challenges May to hold votes on her red lines, such as staying out of the customs union.
May says there will be a debate next week, and MPs will be able to table amendments.
It's the perfect cover I suppose. She gets progress without owning in.
Have you suffered a ban Anazina/_Anazina_? I must have missed that.
I think there should be a public announcement of each ban, including the misdemeanour!
The first rule of ban club, is no one talks of ban club.
For clarity, I haven't been banned. I got caught in the PB spam trap which was my own fault and for reasons I explained and immediately apologised for at the weekend.
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
Perhaps but who knows what the next few weeks will bring
May will be obdurate, Corbyn will be duplicitous. MPs will be headless chickens, the EU will do what it said it was going to do. Bonus points if somebody tries to bypass the Comission by going directly to one or more national leader.
I don't see the EU budging or any national EU leader, the interesting thing will be what the Cooper and Boles and Grieve amendments produce
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
Of course. Hence the prominence given to the prospect of large numbers of Turks, Syrians and Iraqis coming to the UK. Almost entirely ... white Europeans!
So you think we should prioritise highly skilled Slovakian waitresses and Bulgarian car washers for immigration to the UK over Iraqi doctors and Syrian engineers? Because of course post Brexit we can prioritise the latter over the former (assuming of course we end freedom of movement as it currently operates)?
We can let in as many Iraqi doctors and Syrian engineers as we want to now. We just choose not to. FoM is a reciprocal right, widely used by many Britons in a number of ways. Once we’ve left the EU that is going to become a lot more apparent.
FFS. I was pretty sure this would happen. The public get told that no more Romanians and Latvians will be coming and then we open the gates to migrants from South Asia etc etc.
This aint gonna end well.
Project Fear.
I'm sure there are plenty of people eager to fly over from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to pick berries for us.
I don't know...there are bloody millions of them willing to pull pints in London pubs and be Deliveroo riders...
There you are then. Pulling pints ... picking berries ... essentially the same hand action. They won't even need retraining.
I honestly don't really see the issue. They had a temporary work visa scheme just like this until quite recently, that appeared to work fine.
Of course. The only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen.
No it certainly wouldn't. Not with well over a million foreigners having come here since the referendum.
Gosh, really?
Maybe we shouldn't have had a referendum then, if it's caused a lot of (spits) foreigners to come here.
Only for small-minded ignoramuses like yourself.
??????
I was responding to your post about "well over a million foreigners having come here since the referendum". Are you suffering from short-term memory loss, perhaps?
Which I was saying as a good thing in response to your inane " only problem would be if people took it into their heads that we didn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here, or something like that. But that would never happen."
Only your small mindedness made the leap from foreigners to "(spit)" and it being viewed as bad.
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
Perhaps but who knows what the next few weeks will bring
Yes, I suppose it's the kind of rule that's true until it isn't. Still, it has the ring of fanfiction about it. Same goes for talk of a government of national unity
The question will be if Parliament votes for something which is not May's Deal but is an alternative to No Deal what will the executive do?
I’ve always thought it would be good for the monarch to symbolically veto a bill (a meaningless one like the Outlawries) once a year at the State opening of Parliament, just to keep the power in use
The monarch is powerless and that is as it should be. Anything that so much as suggests that she has any command over our democracy should be ruthlessly prevented.
It should be remembered though that power in this country lies in the Crown in Parliament, the PM and Cabinet are merely servants of the Crown, constitutionally they are not the executive the monarch is, they just do the day to day job of exercising the monarch's power.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
To be honest, any time anyone mentions the word "Queen" in a political discussion it seems to be a sure sign that the conversation has drifted off into the realms of complete fantasy.
Perhaps but who knows what the next few weeks will bring
Yes, I suppose it's the kind of rule that's true until it isn't. Still, it has the ring of fanfiction about it. Same goes for talk of a government of national unity
The question will be if Parliament votes for something which is not May's Deal but is an alternative to No Deal what will the executive do?
I don't know, but I strongly suspect it'd be political, rather than constitutional, forces which would determine that.
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
In the absence of reforming our non contributory welfare/housing benefit and tax credits system - which is seemingly a no no.
I do think there's some validity to this argument, but I certainly didn't get the impression it was the motivation for a significant proportion of Leave voters.
I think there might be about some validity for the people that post here. In any event a comfort blanket.
However, one the streets of [deleted] the campaigners were all about foreigners stealing jobs. That the campaigners were by and large retired is beside the point.
The main criticisms of Theresa May's position come down to people complaining that she continues to refuse to say that the impossible is possible. So, yes, nothing has changed, because the reality hasn't changed.
That this simple, self-evident truth needs to be repeated so often beggars belief. Fair enough to have to drill it into the thick skulls of MPs. But this is PB where we should know better.
She will not revoke A50, which would take No Deal off the table. If MPs do wish to revoke A50, then they can vote her out of office.
Well I still think (ha haha hahahahaha) that the deal will get through. I mean it seems impossible. The DUP won't all of a sudden change their minds, and nor it seems and despite the appeals today, will a significant number of Lab MPs. Cons headbangers on both sides won't either.
And yet.
The deal is the only possible iteration of Brexit. There simple INA.
So the next few days and weeks will be nothing if not exciting. But we know the ending. The deal.
You vastly overestimate the willingness of hundreds of career politicians to put the good of the country first.
It's bonkers, but, simply, we cannot leave with a question mark over the Irish border. Leaving without a backstop is doing exactly that. No PM could ever ( @Philip_Thompson pls note) lead us onto a path, one consequence of which is a return to the Troubles. Even May, useless and falling short as she is and does, realises that (or perhaps a favoured adviser has had to tell her). So for all her undoubted many ills, she is rightly holding on to that. And once that is an immovable object, the rest has to fall into place around it.
A pre application to WTO to get a ruling that a special situation applies in Ireland would be a solution that might have worked
The "Security Exception" has ordinarily applied to war time situations whereby nations apply for exemption on the assumption that arms and materiel is being imported.
"What happens if you can't support yourself? Freedom of movement means you can't be deported. Curious."
No it doesn't.
In theory if you become a burden on the host state you can be deported - Belgium has had a record of being tough on this. Even people entitled to welfare but who don't claim have had their status threatened - as well as low paid workers who get injured at work and need healthcare/can't work for some time.
By contrast Portugal actively encourages EU retirees with tax incentives.
It's almost like we didn't need to leave the EU to control immigration and stop the 'spongers' misusing the NHS and out benefits system.
Not many countries have the following all in operation - even Ireland has charges for healthcare and a public services card now and in eastern and central Europe housing benefit doesn't exist. And beyond the EHIC 3 month period many nations require you to have private medical insurance - as access to the national healthcare scheme is not automatic.
Universal health care free at the point of use a non contributory benefits system - where need not length of residency or contributions determine entitlements a tax credit system which tops up the pay of employers paying low wages a housing benefit system which provides free or subsidised housing to those who cannot afford their rent an effectively unregulated labour market - just get an NI number online and off you go lack of controls over residency i.e. no requirement to register with your local police or council no national ID card or residency card to confirm entitlement to access public services and welfare and finally the English language which most learn at school
If we had had more such controls in place Windrush might never have happened - as those entitled to be here would have had an ID or public services card long term even if they lacked other proof of residency. Even Ireland has a public services card now - it didn't exist in 2012 but now 75% of the population has one.
Free for all employment laws, free healthcare at the point of use (with little or no follow up on those who should be paying but don't as its 'immoral'), lack of ID cards in whatever form and a generous non contributory welfare system which does not differentiate between those who have paid in for 30 years as opposed to 30 days is what has caused our issues. And weak politicians of course!
Yes, yes, yes! May could have sold Norway option with a promise to do all that... I’m fact David Cameron could have promised to do all that also...
I was dead set against ID cards, I think they are distinctly unbritish, however with the nature of free movement, they are sadly needed.
The main criticisms of Theresa May's position come down to people complaining that she continues to refuse to say that the impossible is possible. So, yes, nothing has changed, because the reality hasn't changed.
That this simple, self-evident truth needs to be repeated so often beggars belief. Fair enough to have to drill it into the thick skulls of MPs. But this is PB where we should know better.
She will not revoke A50, which would take No Deal off the table. If MPs do wish to revoke A50, then they can vote her out of office.
Well I still think (ha haha hahahahaha) that the deal will get through. I mean it seems impossible. The DUP won't all of a sudden change their minds, and nor it seems and despite the appeals today, will a significant number of Lab MPs. Cons headbangers on both sides won't either.
And yet.
The deal is the only possible iteration of Brexit. There simple INA.
So the next few days and weeks will be nothing if not exciting. But we know the ending. The deal.
You vastly overestimate the willingness of hundreds of career politicians to put the good of the country first.
It's bonkers, but, simply, we cannot leave with a question mark over the Irish border. Leaving without a backstop is doing exactly that. No PM could ever ( @Philip_Thompson pls note) lead us onto a path, one consequence of which is a return to the Troubles. Even May, useless and falling short as she is and does, realises that (or perhaps a favoured adviser has had to tell her). So for all her undoubted many ills, she is rightly holding on to that. And once that is an immovable object, the rest has to fall into place around it.
A pre application to WTO to get a ruling that a special situation applies in Ireland would be a solution that might have worked
The "Security Exception" has ordinarily applied to war time situations whereby nations apply for exemption on the assumption that arms and materiel is being imported.
"A second security alert is underway in Londonderry after a Royal Mail van was hijacked at gunpoint and abandoned.
Police are currently at the scene of a security alert in the Circular Road area of Londonderry, while another security alert is taking place less than a mile away on Southway."
All worth it to reinstate properly bendy bananas.
You really think this is Brexit related?
No, after over a decade of relative calm, the resurgence of violence and bombs in N. Ireland at the time of intense political discord between the UK and Ireland, and the potential re-introduction of the border, is a complete coincidence.
Non-sarcastic response: I do.
Because hijacking a Royal Mail van is all about a hard border in Ireland..... non-sarcastic eye-roll.
Much more likely to be about where the border between one drugs gang and another is.
48 hours after a bomb goes off outside a courthouse, and is linked to dissident republicans.
It might be a coincidence, but flat out denial that's it's a possibility because you support Brexit is truly worth of an eye-roll.
You think dissident republicans arrived with Brexit?
Eye-roll.....
There are no tanks in Baghdad.
There are no points in your comments.....
You should however consider applying to be a government press spokesman in the event that we do end up leaving with no deal. As Comical Mark you could keep us all entertained.
Indeed. All we need is some kind of large circus tent in which to hold it. Sort of like a mar[Yes we got it - Ed]
Comments
No it doesn't.
In theory if you become a burden on the host state you can be deported - Belgium has had a record of being tough on this. Even people entitled to welfare but who don't claim have had their status threatened - as well as low paid workers who get injured at work and need healthcare/can't work for some time.
By contrast Portugal actively encourages EU retirees with tax incentives.
https://www.euronews.com/2016/03/11/belgium-says-jobless-europeans-not-welcome
"Brexit, viewed from Europe, is looking to many like a particularly British mess. But what if we’re the baddies?
It’s an unpopular idea on this side of the Channel. But the Brexit impasse is not British Prime Minister Theresa May’s fault. Rather, it’s the negotiation process itself that set us up for failure — and the blame for that lies first and foremost with Brussels."
"There are political and reputational risks as well. As the negotiation process disintegrates, most of the world will turn to Brussels and ask why, once again, the EU appears unable to reach a speedy and efficient resolution to its problems."
!Luckily, there is an alternative: Go back to the drawing board and declare the Withdrawal Agreement successfully concluded — without the Irish question.!!
If the PM says to veto a bill then constitutionally the Queen must do so or she is acting on her own accord and not on the advice of the PM.
Of course Parliament could No Confidence the PM.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1087400419003895813
(Not on the Befair exchange at the moment.)
If it isn't going to be Trump, I think he'd be interested, and in with a chance.
Universal health care free at the point of use
a non contributory benefits system - where need not length of residency or contributions determine entitlements
a tax credit system which tops up the pay of employers paying low wages
a housing benefit system which provides free or subsidised housing to those who cannot afford their rent
an effectively unregulated labour market - just get an NI number online and off you go
lack of controls over residency i.e. no requirement to register with your local police or council
no national ID card or residency card to confirm entitlement to access public services and welfare
and finally the English language which most learn at school
If we had had more such controls in place Windrush might never have happened - as those entitled to be here would have had an ID or public services card long term even if they lacked other proof of residency. Even Ireland has a public services card now - it didn't exist in 2012 but now 75% of the population has one.
Free for all employment laws, free healthcare at the point of use (with little or no follow up on those who should be paying but don't as its 'immoral'), lack of ID cards in whatever form and a generous non contributory welfare system which does not differentiate between those who have paid in for 30 years as opposed to 30 days is what has caused our issues. And weak politicians of course!
It doesn't.
She is wasting time and can kicking for another week.
For the love of God will Parliament take control of this fiasco?
If we leave without a deal, to all appearances the Union will be in breach of its obligation under the treaty.
The ECJ has already ruled that paragraph 3 should really have said "or unless the Member State revokes its notification". The whole thing seems to have been very sloppily worded.
Can kicked - who could argue with it bar the ultra Remainers ?
OK. Enjoy the pie-fight....!
I was responding to your post about "well over a million foreigners having come here since the referendum". Are you suffering from short-term memory loss, perhaps?
Clearly she is receiving an Odyssean education!
No doubt working on Gove's manifesto
'The referendum wasn't about curbing migration? You're pulling my leg now'
It was about being able to exercise controls over it - and defacto treating people equally irrespective of where they come from based on their skills and qualifications or their likelihood of being net contributors rather than their nationality. aka not giving priority to almost entirely white Europeans!
In the absence of reforming our non contributory welfare/housing benefit and tax credits system - which is seemingly a no no.
Thanks also to Morris Dancer, Anazina, Nigel B and Mortimer for your comments below
Seriously, why's the debate next week? Can we not, y'know, get a sense of urgency about this going?
He would have an opinion on the Queen and Ringmasters.
"Don't smoke, then"
"You want me to give in to the cancer?!"
That's when deals get done. When 27 countries start going "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-IT! Those crazy Brits - they're serious!!! They ain't swerving......."
https://youtu.be/l1dnqKGuezo
Overall, I'm very green on some longshots like Brown, Hickenlooper, Castro and Bullock.
Otherwise the book is moderately red with Trump (implied as I have bets he won't finish his term) and Sanders my worst results. I'm fine with being deep red on Oprah and Michele, I dont think they will run.
She'll postpone.
Only your small mindedness made the leap from foreigners to "(spit)" and it being viewed as bad.
the freighterBrexit.Despite having cheated, May will be awarded a commendation for "original thinking".
Oops. I used that analogy with three Germans I spoke to last week.
😖
Guys: I meant between NI and GB and that it was *not a good thing that the EU was demanding it*
Normal Parliamentary service will be resumed on 30th March. (Wot? If Parliament doesn't like it, Parliament must ask itself why it passed it....)
However, one the streets of [deleted] the campaigners were all about foreigners stealing jobs. That the campaigners were by and large retired is beside the point.
(At the risk of triggering @_Anazina_ )
Not applicable in this instance.
I was dead set against ID cards, I think they are distinctly unbritish, however with the nature of free movement, they are sadly needed.
But in the real world I would be more than surprised if the Cooper no deal amendment didn't sail past
He seemed to think - yep - 0% fall........