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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:
    If Matt Frei wants to give his opinions, fine. But don't make up a story to provide cover for doing so.
    Why shouldn't he? James Joyce could have said: "the relationship between fathers and sons is complicated".

    Instead he wrote Ulysses.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    TOPPING said:



    Osborne wasn’t worth listening to as Chancellor. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.

    It's not really Osborne, but a sharp-tongued centre-left commentator, "tim", who despised Osborne and dislikes Corbyn. He used to feud here with SeanT regularly until Sean intrusively published tim's real-life name (Sean has apologised), after which tim's partner asked him to stop posting here.
    tim was of course a prince amongst posters, very sensible left wing, funny, incisive and acute (you are very lucky, for example, Nick that he is no longer posting here). SeanT was jealous so broke the 4th wall, so to speak.
    Agreed. Tim is a true PB legend. Arguably the best poster ever on this site – he ran rings around the PB Tories and the Labour hard lefties. Sean has apologised several times for what he did, however, so it's probably fair to leave that there. Indeed Sean has also asked several times that Tim return but sadly I think those days are over. The site is much the weaker without him.
  • UK, please stay with us.

    'Brexit: High-profile Germans plead with UK to stay in EU'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46918009

    Shame Bowie, as an honorary Berliner, isn't around to sign the letter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Scott_P said:
    Overheard by bakers, as I filed my copy on my mobile phone.....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    TOPPING said:
    It is plausible except for the Berlin bit - all he needed was to use London instead.

    Separately and far more bluntly

    https://twitter.com/NadiaShireen/status/1086206307827441664
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:



    Osborne wasn’t worth listening to as Chancellor. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.

    It's not really Osborne, but a sharp-tongued centre-left commentator, "tim", who despised Osborne and dislikes Corbyn. He used to feud here with SeanT regularly until Sean intrusively published tim's real-life name (Sean has apologised), after which tim's partner asked him to stop posting here.
    tim was of course a prince amongst posters, very sensible left wing, funny, incisive and acute (you are very lucky, for example, Nick that he is no longer posting here). SeanT was jealous so broke the 4th wall, so to speak.
    Agreed. Tim is a true PB legend. Arguably the best poster ever on this site – he ran rings around the PB Tories and the Labour hard lefties. Sean has apologised several times for what he did, however, so it's probably fair to leave that there. Indeed Sean has also asked several times that Tim return but sadly I think those days are over. The site is much the weaker without him.
    He was well informed and effective but his certainty was maddening.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:
    It is plausible except for the Berlin bit - all he needed was to use London instead.

    Separately and far more bluntly

    https://twitter.com/NadiaShireen/status/1086206307827441664
    Riz Ahmed is a god.

    Do I want him involved in politics? Ideally not but rather him than a thousand Eddie Izzards (in politics).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:



    Osborne wasn’t worth listening to as Chancellor. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.

    It's not really Osborne, but a sharp-tongued centre-left commentator, "tim", who despised Osborne and dislikes Corbyn. He used to feud here with SeanT regularly until Sean intrusively published tim's real-life name (Sean has apologised), after which tim's partner asked him to stop posting here.
    tim was of course a prince amongst posters, very sensible left wing, funny, incisive and acute (you are very lucky, for example, Nick that he is no longer posting here). SeanT was jealous so broke the 4th wall, so to speak.
    Agreed. Tim is a true PB legend. Arguably the best poster ever on this site – he ran rings around the PB Tories and the Labour hard lefties. Sean has apologised several times for what he did, however, so it's probably fair to leave that there. Indeed Sean has also asked several times that Tim return but sadly I think those days are over. The site is much the weaker without him.
    He was well informed and effective but his certainty was maddening.
    As was his misogyny....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "Children inherit their intelligence from their mother not their father, say scientists

    Genes for cleverness are carried on the X chromosome and may be deactivated if they come from the father"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/children-intelligence-iq-mother-inherit-inheritance-genetics-genes-a7345596.html
  • eek said:

    TOPPING said:
    It is plausible except for the Berlin bit - all he needed was to use London instead.

    Separately and far more bluntly

    https://twitter.com/NadiaShireen/status/1086206307827441664
    Frei was born in Germany of German parents, so it's quite conceivable he'd be in a Berlin bakery.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:
    It is plausible except for the Berlin bit - all he needed was to use London instead.

    Separately and far more bluntly

    https://twitter.com/NadiaShireen/status/1086206307827441664
    Frei was born in Germany of German parents, so it's quite conceivable he'd be in a Berlin bakery.
    Surely someone has him on findmyphone?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:
    It is plausible except for the Berlin bit - all he needed was to use London instead.

    Separately and far more bluntly

    https://twitter.com/NadiaShireen/status/1086206307827441664
    Yeah, sure....because so many will die, crossing the M25 to seek sanctuary.....

    Good call, Remainers, belittling a million deaths at Partition to make a trite little point. But it's what we expect of you.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited January 2019
    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?
  • Nigelb said:

    There was some discussion yesterday around our European partners being utterly fed up with us, and glad to see us go.

    I wasn't convinced, and apparently neither are the Germans:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/jan/18/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-merkels-probable-successor-and-other-leading-germans-urge-uk-to-change-its-mind-and-stay-politics-live
    Sir, Without your great nation, this continent would not be what it is today: a community defined by freedom and prosperity. After the horrors of the second world war, Britain did not give up on us. It has welcomed Germany back as a sovereign nation and a European power. This we, as Germans, have not forgotten and we are grateful.

    Because we realise that the freedom we enjoy as Europeans today has in many ways been built and defended by the British people, we want Britons to know that we respect their choice. And should Britain wish to leave the European Union for good, it will always have friends in Germany and Europe. But Britons should equally know that we believe that no choice is irreversible. Our door will always remain open: Europe is home.

    Britain has become part of who we are as Europeans. And therefore we would miss Britain. We would miss the legendary British black humour and going to the pub after work hours to drink an ale. We would miss tea with milk and driving on the left-hand side of the road. And we would miss seeing the panto at Christmas. But more than anything else, we would miss the British people — our friends across the Channel. We would miss Britain as part of the European Union, especially in these troubled times. Therefore Britons should know: from the bottom of our hearts, we want them to stay.

    This is very much the view of German friends of mine. It is very sad that there are people in our country that wish to trash our international reputation and treat our closest allies with so much rudeness and disdain. No wonder they like Trump and Putin so much. These so-called Brexiteer nationalists are not patriots.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:
    If Matt Frei wants to give his opinions, fine. But don't make up a story to provide cover for doing so.
    Why shouldn't he? James Joyce could have said: "the relationship between fathers and sons is complicated".

    Instead he wrote Ulysses.
    Just dont.

    Ive tried 3 times to read Ulysses and the best Ive done is page 7, cant get in to it at all.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:
    If Matt Frei wants to give his opinions, fine. But don't make up a story to provide cover for doing so.
    Why shouldn't he? James Joyce could have said: "the relationship between fathers and sons is complicated".

    Instead he wrote Ulysses.
    Just dont.

    Ive tried 3 times to read Ulysses and the best Ive done is page 7, cant get in to it at all.
    Start at page one.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:
    If Matt Frei wants to give his opinions, fine. But don't make up a story to provide cover for doing so.
    Why shouldn't he? James Joyce could have said: "the relationship between fathers and sons is complicated".

    Instead he wrote Ulysses.
    Just dont.

    Ive tried 3 times to read Ulysses and the best Ive done is page 7, cant get in to it at all.
    Start at page one.
    I was skip reading:-)
  • I have been saying for months that there are approx 18 labour mps opposed to a second referendum and not believed by some. However, this mornings news that there are many more labour mps anti a second referendum does demonstrate how much labour are split

    Lucy Powell on 5 live this morning suggested labour is not split but have several shades of grey on the issue. She is taking us for fools if she thinks anyone believes that.

    The interesting issue is where is Keir Starmer. In the HOC he has looked tortured and of course he has been promoting the second referendum which is clearly not going to be supported by labour. Indeed I would suggest that, with the real split in labour and a max of 30 conservative mps supporting a referendum, it is not likely to happen.

    Boris and Davis resigned over policy, why is Starmer still in post when he is so much at odds with the leadership
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Pulpstar said:

    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?

    I think that's probably right. If you want the stature that comes with a correspondent/presenter position, you have to be seen to be impartial. It's why people get upset with Andrew Neil because he does let his views come through on This Week.

    What annoys me more, however, is when the likes of Flanders or Mason do an editor job to build up a profile and then come back as opinion makers. I think if you've done a correspondent/editor job on the BBC, you shouldn't be allowed back on the BBC to give an opinion (unless elected to office - like the SNP bloke who lost to Swinson last year).
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    It's a JOKE ffs and quite a good one - if I overheard it in a bakery I'd probably pass it off as my own. It really doesn't matter whether it's true or not.

    Next on PB, scandalous suggestion that Matt cartoons portray imaginary events which never actually happened.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,012
    edited January 2019

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:
    It is plausible except for the Berlin bit - all he needed was to use London instead.

    Separately and far more bluntly

    https://twitter.com/NadiaShireen/status/1086206307827441664
    Yeah, sure....because so many will die, crossing the M25 to seek sanctuary.....

    Good call, Remainers, belittling a million deaths at Partition to make a trite little point. But it's what we expect of you.
    Deserve punishment beatings for making such a trite comparison.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Ishmael_Z said:

    It's a JOKE ffs and quite a good one - if I overheard it in a bakery I'd probably pass it off as my own. It really doesn't matter whether it's true or not.

    Next on PB, scandalous suggestion that Matt cartoons portray imaginary events which never actually happened.

    Yes, I'd pass it off as my own. But that's the point, he can't and in fact I'd suggest he's done the opposite.

    No, it really doesn't matter, I probably shouldn't have bitten.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    It's a JOKE ffs and quite a good one - if I overheard it in a bakery I'd probably pass it off as my own. It really doesn't matter whether it's true or not.

    Next on PB, scandalous suggestion that Matt cartoons portray imaginary events which never actually happened.

    Have Matt & Matt Frei ever been seen in the same room?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    DavidL said:

    Why is this man not in charge of this? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46913484/rory-stewart-brexit-red-lines-could-shift

    Actually, I increasingly feel the words "of this" are superfluous.

    It is one of the wonders of the modern world that he is not in Cabinet.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    edited January 2019
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?

    I think that's probably right. If you want the stature that comes with a correspondent/presenter position, you have to be seen to be impartial. It's why people get upset with Andrew Neil because he does let his views come through on This Week.

    What annoys me more, however, is when the likes of Flanders or Mason do an editor job to build up a profile and then come back as opinion makers. I think if you've done a correspondent/editor job on the BBC, you shouldn't be allowed back on the BBC to give an opinion (unless elected to office - like the SNP bloke who lost to Swinson last year).
    Jesus Christ.

    WHO CARES????
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,285
    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Anazina, it matters because those seeking to be seen as objective reporters can't have their cake and eat it. You can express a personal view or attempt to be seen as neutral, favouring neither one side nor the other.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    So no deal now comes with Hammond and Rudd stepping down ?

    Looking more and more tempting.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    Nigelb said:

    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
    Her logic is mangled.

    It is only when the EU believe that No Deal is better, that they will then negotiate a deal. Why?

    If they really believed No Deal was better, they would leave us to leave with No Deal.

    I suppose she might be trying to say it is only when the EU believe that No Deal is better for the UK than the EU, that they will agree a deal.

    Still, this MP is a known to be less than accurate as she is the one who claimed we could not veto Turkey into the EU.
  • Nigelb said:

    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
    Indeed. Even the fabled German car manufacturers are said to believe that it is better to lose some of their business to the UK than to damage the whole integrity of the EU. Wake up idiots, they do NOT need us more than we need them
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    What is it with PP and giving away money on Bercow? In October they offered 1/10 he'd make it to Christmas, now it's 1/10 that he makes it to April. He will leave at some point, maybe even this year. But before Brexit? Why on earth would he do that, and how on earth could people force him to?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:
    If Matt Frei wants to give his opinions, fine. But don't make up a story to provide cover for doing so.
    Why shouldn't he? James Joyce could have said: "the relationship between fathers and sons is complicated".

    Instead he wrote Ulysses.
    Just dont.

    Ive tried 3 times to read Ulysses and the best Ive done is page 7, cant get in to it at all.
    :smile:

    There are plenty of guides to it now - the most notable of course being The Odyssey. But well worth giving it another go.

    My recommendation? I'd read The Odyssey and then just jump in and read Ulysses letting the language wash over you and enjoy whatever you get out of it, what do they say about some books which are not able to be read they can only be re-read?

    I would be a liar not fit to grace PB if I said I had got further than p.7 of Finnegan's Wake, however.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Foremain, if we do end up leaving it'll be interesting to see how the EU and the member-states relationships to it and one another evolve.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.
  • I have been saying for months that there are approx 18 labour mps opposed to a second referendum and not believed by some. However, this mornings news that there are many more labour mps anti a second referendum does demonstrate how much labour are split

    Lucy Powell on 5 live this morning suggested labour is not split but have several shades of grey on the issue. She is taking us for fools if she thinks anyone believes that.

    The interesting issue is where is Keir Starmer. In the HOC he has looked tortured and of course he has been promoting the second referendum which is clearly not going to be supported by labour. Indeed I would suggest that, with the real split in labour and a max of 30 conservative mps supporting a referendum, it is not likely to happen.

    Boris and Davis resigned over policy, why is Starmer still in post when he is so much at odds with the leadership

    Boris and Davis didn't really resign over policy. Boris flounced because he thought it was a good way of appealing to thicky Brexit obsessed activists, and Davis realised he might have to do some work if he stayed on.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Meeks, interesting. I also noticed he was favourite, now 6 on Ladbrokes. But does he have sufficient MP support?
  • That's inferring a reasonably complex thought process before one reaches the point of becoming a bellowing QT audience member.
  • Yes, a vast proportion of the population have been brainwashed. Do we need the misery, hardship and destruction of a No Deal to shake them out of this mania? Of course, a few poor souls who didn't countenance it may also lose their homes/jobs/lives etc., but I guess we'll just have to write them off as collateral damage as we cure this appalling national sickness.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    Well quite. He's also extremely competent, a conservative and a good communicator.

    Not many tick those 3 boxes in the current cabinet. Maybe Hunt, maybe..
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2019

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    I see the logic of this -- but I also thought the same thing before the 2016 leadership contest, yet he royally cocked it up that time, so can we be sure he wouldn't this time?
  • Mr. Foremain, if we do end up leaving it'll be interesting to see how the EU and the member-states relationships to it and one another evolve.

    Without our counterbalance, I suggest it will be a little more "ever-closer", whatever that means. If the US or Britain go into isolationist mode, very few citizens of the world benefit. Sadly both are doing so simultaneously.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    DavidL said:

    Why is this man not in charge of this? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46913484/rory-stewart-brexit-red-lines-could-shift

    Actually, I increasingly feel the words "of this" are superfluous.

    It is one of the wonders of the modern world that he is not in Cabinet.
    As a non-Tory, long term him and Mordaunt are the ones who concern me. Whatever his merits, Gove has repeatedly shown he's a liability with voters.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?

    I think that's probably right. If you want the stature that comes with a correspondent/presenter position, you have to be seen to be impartial. It's why people get upset with Andrew Neil because he does let his views come through on This Week.

    What annoys me more, however, is when the likes of Flanders or Mason do an editor job to build up a profile and then come back as opinion makers. I think if you've done a correspondent/editor job on the BBC, you shouldn't be allowed back on the BBC to give an opinion (unless elected to office - like the SNP bloke who lost to Swinson last year).
    Jesus Christ.

    WHO CARES????
    Lol. From the 'bloke on the internet' who keeps banging on about Laura K!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,859

    Nigelb said:

    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
    Indeed. Even the fabled German car manufacturers are said to believe that it is better to lose some of their business to the UK than to damage the whole integrity of the EU. Wake up idiots, they do NOT need us more than we need them
    I believe we need them more than they need us. But I also believe tht it is FUCKING IDIOTIC to go into a negotiation explicitly saying that no deal is not an option. You are basically saying you will take any terms you are offered.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Danny565 said:

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    I see the logic of this -- but I also thought the same thing before the 2016 leadership contest, yet he royally cocked it up that time, so can we be sure he wouldn't this time?
    I'm not saying he'll do it. It's easy to see how the winner could be some numpty like Dominic Raab. I am saying that Michael Gove is not too short-priced at present.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?

    I think that's probably right. If you want the stature that comes with a correspondent/presenter position, you have to be seen to be impartial. It's why people get upset with Andrew Neil because he does let his views come through on This Week.

    What annoys me more, however, is when the likes of Flanders or Mason do an editor job to build up a profile and then come back as opinion makers. I think if you've done a correspondent/editor job on the BBC, you shouldn't be allowed back on the BBC to give an opinion (unless elected to office - like the SNP bloke who lost to Swinson last year).
    Jesus Christ.

    WHO CARES????
    Lol. From the 'bloke on the internet' who keeps banging on about Laura K!
    I very nearly cited her as a very good example of an impartial editor (though I don't look at what she Tweets unless posted on here).
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Pulpstar said:

    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?

    It's entirely possible it was actually said in a Berlin bakery, allowing for poetic licence on "overheard". Berliners have a good sense of humour and it's the kind of joke that appeals to the German sense of the ridiculous.

    Not that it really matters whether it was said though ...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:
    If Matt Frei wants to give his opinions, fine. But don't make up a story to provide cover for doing so.
    Why shouldn't he? James Joyce could have said: "the relationship between fathers and sons is complicated".

    Instead he wrote Ulysses.
    Just dont.

    Ive tried 3 times to read Ulysses and the best Ive done is page 7, cant get in to it at all.
    :smile:

    There are plenty of guides to it now - the most notable of course being The Odyssey. But well worth giving it another go.

    My recommendation? I'd read The Odyssey and then just jump in and read Ulysses letting the language wash over you and enjoy whatever you get out of it, what do they say about some books which are not able to be read they can only be re-read?

    I would be a liar not fit to grace PB if I said I had got further than p.7 of Finnegan's Wake, however.
    Ive nothing aginst long novels

    I raced through the 1000+ pages of the Good Soldier Svejk only to be gobsmacked by the last page.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,285

    Nigelb said:

    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
    Her logic is mangled.

    It is only when the EU believe that No Deal is better, that they will then negotiate a deal. Why?

    If they really believed No Deal was better, they would leave us to leave with No Deal.

    I suppose she might be trying to say it is only when the EU believe that No Deal is better for the UK than the EU, that they will agree a deal....
    That is, of course, what she intended to say.

    It is a measure of how stupid she is that she was not only unable to do so, but also that her misstatement managed to express a truth which rebutted her intended argument.
  • Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
    Indeed. Even the fabled German car manufacturers are said to believe that it is better to lose some of their business to the UK than to damage the whole integrity of the EU. Wake up idiots, they do NOT need us more than we need them
    I believe we need them more than they need us. But I also believe tht it is FUCKING IDIOTIC to go into a negotiation explicitly saying that no deal is not an option. You are basically saying you will take any terms you are offered.
    Even though I think the whole process pointless, I can't disagree with your logic. We are already negotiating from a very weak position. I blame the "will-o-the-people". Whoever they are. They gave us a very marginal vote to leave, and then at a following GE removed the majority of the governing party. The British are known for black humour, but this about tops it! Putin must be pissing his pants with glee.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:



    Osborne wasn’t worth listening to as Chancellor. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.

    It's not really Osborne, but a sharp-tongued centre-left commentator, "tim", who despised Osborne and dislikes Corbyn. He used to feud here with SeanT regularly until Sean intrusively published tim's real-life name (Sean has apologised), after which tim's partner asked him to stop posting here.
    tim was of course a prince amongst posters, very sensible left wing, funny, incisive and acute (you are very lucky, for example, Nick that he is no longer posting here). SeanT was jealous so broke the 4th wall, so to speak.
    Agreed. Tim is a true PB legend. Arguably the best poster ever on this site – he ran rings around the PB Tories and the Labour hard lefties. Sean has apologised several times for what he did, however, so it's probably fair to leave that there. Indeed Sean has also asked several times that Tim return but sadly I think those days are over. The site is much the weaker without him.
    He was very intelligent and very nasty. He got several temporary bans for personal attacks on other posters.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "Children inherit their intelligence from their mother not their father, say scientists

    Genes for cleverness are carried on the X chromosome and may be deactivated if they come from the father"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/children-intelligence-iq-mother-inherit-inheritance-genetics-genes-a7345596.html

    The lede already undermines the headline with that 'may' .
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BoZo on the air claiming we can still catch a unicorn before the 29th March...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    The EU do believe that... just not in quite the way which Ms Mordaunt means - which is why they are refusing to renegotiate what they have agreed.
    Indeed. Even the fabled German car manufacturers are said to believe that it is better to lose some of their business to the UK than to damage the whole integrity of the EU. Wake up idiots, they do NOT need us more than we need them
    I believe we need them more than they need us. But I also believe tht it is FUCKING IDIOTIC to go into a negotiation explicitly saying that no deal is not an option. You are basically saying you will take any terms you are offered.
    Even though I think the whole process pointless, I can't disagree with your logic. We are already negotiating from a very weak position. I blame the "will-o-the-people". Whoever they are. They gave us a very marginal vote to leave, and then at a following GE removed the majority of the governing party. The British are known for black humour, but this about tops it! Putin must be pissing his pants with glee.
    Which Failed negotiation position is actually worse for the EU? As revoking and potentially vetoing everything as it comes across the table or As leaving the EU without a deal..

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    Danny565 said:

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    I see the logic of this -- but I also thought the same thing before the 2016 leadership contest, yet he royally cocked it up that time, so can we be sure he wouldn't this time?
    I'm not saying he'll do it. It's easy to see how the winner could be some numpty like Dominic Raab. I am saying that Michael Gove is not too short-priced at present.
    When Raab became Dexit Sec my first thought was how much more impressive he seemed than David Davis. It now appears he's pretty mad, if intelligent and completely ignorant. Not knowing how important the Dover crossing is? Nearly 3 years after the referendum.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    edited January 2019
    A win for the Brexiteers!

    The major trading nation, the Faroe Islands, is due to sign a free trade agreement with the UK immediately after Brexit.

    The report comes from a Greenland newspaper and is in Danish, so our friendly translator Nick Palmer can help get the right nuances.

    https://sermitsiaq.ag/node/210813

    Probably the Faroes just want our fish.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257
    edited January 2019

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    Yes. IMO he is a great choice in any case, but his position right now is particularly powerful and I can see it becoming more so.

    His biggest weakness is perhaps that he does not score well on the 'sort of chap I'd like to have a pint with' scale - many people would down it in one if they saw him coming over - but this should not matter too much in the event of him taking over in situ as next PM.

    By the time he has to fight a general election he will have had the chance to endear himself to the general public and I sense he is capable of that. Not saying that he will ever be loved - difficult to envisage "One Michael Gove, there's only one Michael Gove" chants breaking out on a regular basis outside of party conference - but I can see him becoming well-liked.

    That said, 6/1 looks a touch short now, so I have laid some of mine back.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Brooke, aye, not sure it's terribly clever to be making a cartoon of that nature. Knocking politicians is one thing, making light of the Duke's RTA is another.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Mr. Brooke, aye, not sure it's terribly clever to be making a cartoon of that nature. Knocking politicians is one thing, making light of the Duke's RTA is another.

    Morris he would be the first to laugh at it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Mr. Brooke, aye, not sure it's terribly clever to be making a cartoon of that nature. Knocking politicians is one thing, making light of the Duke's RTA is another.

    RTC.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    edited January 2019
    Scott_P said:
    It's surprising that Boris is welding himself so strongly to No Deal. Perhaps he's calculating that if there is a deal, he'll then be well placed to cry 'Betrayal' as part of his leadership bid. And if we don't get a deal... well, what's left of the country won't be worth ruling anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    felix said:

    DrCanard said:

    Isnt it the case that Labour are ahead in the polls if you strip out Yougov? This suggests it is a house effect and give that Yougov didn't make a particularly great account of themselves in May-June 2017 I'm not sure how anyone is looking at the polls in the round and concluding that the Tories are ahead.

    YouGov got GE2017 bang on.
    Its constituency model which it hasn't been replicating did.

    Its regular polling which it is doing didn't.

    If we wanted to go on who got the 2017 election we'd use survation.

    For some reason, beyond me, YouGov seems to be the only one that counts.
    On here people tend to go largely on the most recent poll as Gospel. Pretty stupid for a supposedly sophisticated group. I'd say the parties are virtually level pegging.
    None so unsophisticated as those who think the are sophisticated. And the more one focuses on politics the less one seems to know.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. 86, ha, fair enough.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Mr. Brooke, aye, not sure it's terribly clever to be making a cartoon of that nature. Knocking politicians is one thing, making light of the Duke's RTA is another.

    ❄️
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    UK, please stay with us.

    'Brexit: High-profile Germans plead with UK to stay in EU'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46918009

    Shame Bowie, as an honorary Berliner, isn't around to sign the letter.

    Nice sentiment but they'd just bitch and moan at us for bitching and moaning all the time if we stayed so its a bit misplaced. They don't want us to stay, they want an idealised version of the UK to stay.
  • It is indeed. People were injured in that crash
  • Scott_P said:
    It's surprising that Boris is welding himself so strongly to No Deal. Perhaps he's calculating that if there is a deal, he'll then be well placed to cry 'Betrayal' as part of his leadership bid. And if we don't get a deal... well, what's left of the country won't be worth ruling anyway.
    Greater stupidity hath no man than this; that he lay down his credibility for his career
  • It is indeed. People were injured in that crash
    Since when were political cartoons supposed to be tasteful? Faux outrage alert
  • Scott_P said:
    It's surprising that Boris is welding himself so strongly to No Deal. Perhaps he's calculating that if there is a deal, he'll then be well placed to cry 'Betrayal' as part of his leadership bid. And if we don't get a deal... well, what's left of the country won't be worth ruling anyway.
    “I am in blood stepped in so far that should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er.”
  • It is indeed. People were injured in that crash
    Since when were political cartoons supposed to be tasteful? Faux outrage alert
    Yes, but one might hope they'd be funny.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    It is indeed. People were injured in that crash
    Since when were political cartoons supposed to be tasteful? Faux outrage alert
    Yes, but one might hope they'd be funny.
    That's the better objection. Tasteless is fine if it's funny, but this is just feeble. Matt Frei's bakery quip along the same lines is much better.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Brooke, aye, not sure it's terribly clever to be making a cartoon of that nature. Knocking politicians is one thing, making light of the Duke's RTA is another.

    ❄️
    💤
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is @MattFrei using a fake anecdote to express his views on Brexit because his job as a broadcast journalist requires a large degree of impartiality ?

    I think that's probably right. If you want the stature that comes with a correspondent/presenter position, you have to be seen to be impartial. It's why people get upset with Andrew Neil because he does let his views come through on This Week.

    What annoys me more, however, is when the likes of Flanders or Mason do an editor job to build up a profile and then come back as opinion makers. I think if you've done a correspondent/editor job on the BBC, you shouldn't be allowed back on the BBC to give an opinion (unless elected to office - like the SNP bloke who lost to Swinson last year).
    Jesus Christ.

    WHO CARES????
    Lol. From the 'bloke on the internet' who keeps banging on about Laura K!
    I very nearly cited her as a very good example of an impartial editor (though I don't look at what she Tweets unless posted on here).
    The fact that Laura K is merely a mundane conduit is of importance because she is the political editor of the BBC. Her neutrality is not the issue, it is that she just parrots the lines she is fed.

    If you want a proper national TV hack, go for Peston. He's a risk taker and not always right but at least he works hard to get behind the official line, which means he often provides insights and even scoops that are beyond LK, who is just a bit rubbish.

    What Matt Frei says or doesn't say in a German bakehouse is utterly trivial.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    It is indeed. People were injured in that crash
    Since when were political cartoons supposed to be tasteful? Faux outrage alert
    Yes, but one might hope they'd be funny.
    That's the better objection. Tasteless is fine if it's funny, but this is just feeble. Matt Frei's bakery quip along the same lines is much better.
    It's in the finest, Brant-ish tradition of medium- to unfunny political cartoons and is to the point and topical.

    I'm a fan.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Scott_P said:
    It's surprising that Boris is welding himself so strongly to No Deal. Perhaps he's calculating that if there is a deal, he'll then be well placed to cry 'Betrayal' as part of his leadership bid. And if we don't get a deal... well, what's left of the country won't be worth ruling anyway.
    It's either a bid for next leader of the opposition. Or he is on a bet to become the most unpopular prime minister in history.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    The advantage of Tory and Labour MPs coming together to do it is that they both provide the cover for each other.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Dawning, he wants to remain in the public eye and jumping the other way would sink his hopes.

    As ever, ambition is the sun around which Boris' actions revolve.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    TGOHF said:

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    Well quite. He's also extremely competent, a conservative and a good communicator.

    Not many tick those 3 boxes in the current cabinet. Maybe Hunt, maybe..
    But someone on here did say a few weeks ago that ' even his friends know he is a cnut'.
  • justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    Well quite. He's also extremely competent, a conservative and a good communicator.

    Not many tick those 3 boxes in the current cabinet. Maybe Hunt, maybe..
    But someone on here did say a few weeks ago that ' even his friends know he is a cnut'.
    Gove or Hunt?

    I imagine both!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    Well quite. He's also extremely competent, a conservative and a good communicator.

    Not many tick those 3 boxes in the current cabinet. Maybe Hunt, maybe..
    But someone on here did say a few weeks ago that ' even his friends know he is a cnut'.
    Gove or Hunt?

    I imagine both!
    Gove.
  • Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:



    Osborne wasn’t worth listening to as Chancellor. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.

    It's not really Osborne, but a sharp-tongued centre-left commentator, "tim", who despised Osborne and dislikes Corbyn. He used to feud here with SeanT regularly until Sean intrusively published tim's real-life name (Sean has apologised), after which tim's partner asked him to stop posting here.
    tim was of course a prince amongst posters, very sensible left wing, funny, incisive and acute (you are very lucky, for example, Nick that he is no longer posting here). SeanT was jealous so broke the 4th wall, so to speak.
    Agreed. Tim is a true PB legend. Arguably the best poster ever on this site – he ran rings around the PB Tories and the Labour hard lefties. Sean has apologised several times for what he did, however, so it's probably fair to leave that there. Indeed Sean has also asked several times that Tim return but sadly I think those days are over. The site is much the weaker without him.
    He was very intelligent and very nasty. He got several temporary bans for personal attacks on other posters.
    They both sound like kernts, site must be better without, Shirley
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Scott_P said:
    It's surprising that Boris is welding himself so strongly to No Deal. Perhaps he's calculating that if there is a deal, he'll then be well placed to cry 'Betrayal' as part of his leadership bid. And if we don't get a deal... well, what's left of the country won't be worth ruling anyway.
    Greater stupidity hath no man than this; that he lay down his credibility for his career
    He'll need to make more than such a meagre offering if he really wishes to get on.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've just done the Five Thirty Eight personality test.

    I would have done much better on "respect for others", but it asked me about Zac Goldsmith.

    Here's my result: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/personality-quiz/?group=-LWUbpnsPGmGj00hx03A

    It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.

    Surprisingly similar
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/personality-quiz/?group=-LWUbpnsPGmGj00hx03A#result-charts
    Mine came out same as well
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Unusually I'm not betting against the favourite for next Conservative leader at present. That's not because of Michael Gove's undoubtedly rousing speech on Wednesday (it's almost irrelevant) but because as of now he is just about the only conceivable hingepoint between the wings of the Conservative party that could keep it held together.

    Well quite. He's also extremely competent, a conservative and a good communicator.

    Not many tick those 3 boxes in the current cabinet. Maybe Hunt, maybe..
    But someone on here did say a few weeks ago that ' even his friends know he is a cnut'.
    Gove or Hunt?

    I imagine both!
    Gove.
    I thought Hunt would be the next Tory leader the day after GE 2017, and nothing I've seen has changed my mind since. Hunt might be seen as a 'bastard', but Gove is seen as being just a bit too 'weird' and, ultimately, he's not PLU enough for the Tory Party grandees.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Brooke, aye, not sure it's terribly clever to be making a cartoon of that nature. Knocking politicians is one thing, making light of the Duke's RTA is another.

    Morris he would be the first to laugh at it.
    Best one I saw was with webcam footage showing Corgi driving, very funny.
This discussion has been closed.