Like I've said, the hard Leavers aren't really serious about Britain leaving.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think there are two factors.
1. They think that, as the EU and the UK will continually chafe, that if we don't leave now, we'll leave more utterly and finally at some point in the future. They fear that some kind of halfway house - not that the WA is actually like that, but you can't expect people to read documents - will end up being popular with voters (like the EEA is in Norway), and therefore they want to avoid it at all costs.
2. Sometimes I think they're sole pleasure in life is in bitching about the EU. It's great that somebody else is to blame. It means you don't have to think about whether the UK's welfare or education system is part of the problem. Much easier - in the words of MJ Hibbert - "to put the blame on agencies outside ourselves, not to take responsibility for ourselves". (Albeit he was talking about losing weight...)
I think it's more the second factor.
The first would require more strategic thought than the evidence to date suggests they're capable of.
Certainly they fear that a halfway house will never eventually transition to the vision of 1950s restored that they seem to have. But this is as much because it might at some point be reversed, because it isn't working well, as because it'll end up being popular. The hard leavers want to get us beyond the point of no return before the damage being inflicted becomes obvious.
Your second factor is surely right. The only thing worse than not having a dream is having your dream come true, railing against the EU is their life purpose.
Thirdly, it is worth noting that someone like Lilico who declares that we should have remained rather than gomfor a soft Brexit has, in their own mind at least, thereby escaped from taking any responsibility for the downsides of leaving the EU.
I see it as the basis of a long term consensus that can be built upon, but will be enduring.
I've tired of Andrew Lilico's ravings, which lash out in a multitude of inconsistent directions daily.
May's deal, if we're talking about the political declaration, wouldn't even form a consensus for the duration of the negotiations to turn it into a treaty. All of the essential trade-offs have been deferred.
I disagree. But, it looks unlikely we'll ever get there so we'll never know.
All the leavers I've spoke to in the real world (Brexit is getting mentioned plenty!) are well up for no deal
On the other hand, a good number of those I know who wavered and ultimately went for Remain have contacted me to say they back May's deal, and don't understand why Leavers arent.
No one in the staffroom pop up focus group wanted Mays Deal, it was one pole or the other.
It was the day after it was rejected by a record vote though, so perhaps just a recognition that it is dead, leaving only No Deal and Remain as possibilities.
I think you get very different response on Brexit when you discuss it in a group as opposed to personally on a 1:1.
At least, that's been my experience.
I stupidly agreed with Kwasi Kwarteng about the deal on Twitter, and got a pile of shit from ardent Remainers and Leavers. Apparently, it was in every way worse than remaining.
Which way? I asked.
The people of Northern Ireland, they responded.
So, I said, you'd be happy if we asked the people of Northern Ireland about the deal?
No, that won't be necessary. It is enough that we in the UK are horrified by the treatment of Northern Ireland, and therefore would rather we either stay in the EU or leave without any kind of agreement whatsoever.
It was utterly bizarre.
I think that we saw that with the vote on the Baron amendment getting only 25 for, and 600 against. NI is an excuse rather than an issue.
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
So, basically, we're pretty similar, except that - probably just as well in a doctor - you're a little more conscientious than I am.
Sometimes I smile when I see someone just miss the train I'm on. I don't know what that says about me.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
This is the substantive criticism (in the article): The British government had announced that India would have independence by June 1948. In the first week of June 1947, however, Mountbatten suddenly proclaimed that the transfer of power would happen on Aug. 15, 1947 — a “ludicrously early date,” as he himself blurted out. In July, a British lawyer named Cyril Radcliffe was entrusted with the task of drawing new boundaries of a country he had never previously visited....
So how big is this Trump news? Noise or significant?
It's a consistent drip, drip.
It won't lead to impeachment, but it will turn off just a few voters here or there.
Really, though, the biggest threat is the economy.
The government shutdown, which sees around 0.7% of people going without pay (1.3% of households have lost an income), will cause lower consumer spending. We haven't seen much of an impact of it yet. Some small businesses will shut, and people will lose their jobs.
And it will drag on the economy and on Trump's reputation for economic consequence.
If Donald Trump had delayed the tax cuts by a year, and avoided a government slowdown, then the 2020 election would have been held in a period of maximum economic growth.
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
So, basically, we're pretty similar, except that - probably just as well in a doctor - you're a little more conscientious than I am.
Sometimes I smile when I see someone just miss the train I'm on. I don't know what that says about me.
Mwhahahaha.
It's just a small step from that to deliberately destabilising Crossrail...
Like I've said, the hard Leavers aren't really serious about Britain leaving.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think there are two factors.
1. They think that, as the EU and the UK will continually chafe, that if we don't leave now, we'll leave more utterly and finally at some point in the future. They fear that some kind of halfway house - not that the WA is actually like that, but you can't expect people to read documents - will end up being popular with voters (like the EEA is in Norway), and therefore they want to avoid it at all costs.
2. Sometimes I think they're sole pleasure in life is in bitching about the EU. It's great that somebody else is to blame. It means you don't have to think about whether the UK's welfare or education system is part of the problem. Much easier - in the words of MJ Hibbert - "to put the blame on agencies outside ourselves, not to take responsibility for ourselves". (Albeit he was talking about losing weight...)
I think it's more the second factor.
The first would require more strategic thought than the evidence to date suggests they're capable of.
Certainly they fear that a halfway
Thirdly, it is worth noting that someone like Lilico who declares that we should have remained rather than gomfor a soft Brexit has, in their own mind at least, thereby escaped from taking any responsibility for the downsides of leaving the EU.
I see it as the basis of a long term consensus that can be built upon, but will be enduring.
I've tired of Andrew Lilico's ravings, which lash out in a multitude of inconsistent directions daily.
May's deal, if we're talking about the political declaration, wouldn't even form a consensus for the duration of the negotiations to turn it into a treaty. All of the essential trade-offs have been deferred.
I think that is a large part of why it was so unpopular. No one wants interminable negotiations (though that is nailed on whatever the way forward!) and that is what the Deal entails. Both No Dealers and Remainers just wanted the constant noise to stop. I think thats what people mean in vox pops when they say "just get on with it!". They are sick of it dominating the news and politics, whether we are in or out is almost a secondary consideration!
From David Cameron, who recklessly gambled his country’s future on a referendum in order to isolate some whingers in his Conservative party, to the opportunistic Boris Johnson, who jumped on the Brexit bandwagon to secure the prime ministerial chair once warmed by his role model Winston Churchill, and the top-hatted, theatrically retro Jacob Rees-Mogg, whose fund management company has set up an office within the European Union even as he vehemently scorns it, the British political class has offered to the world an astounding spectacle of mendacious, intellectually limited hustlers.
It 's a good example of how hard it is to write well about things you hate.
It is also a good example of how a significant percentage of the world sees Britain.
Doubtless they do.
In much the same way that lots of people have outdated stereotypes of other nations.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
Somewhat similar to the Brexit hardliners. People blame you for giving them what they demanded from you.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
Nobody forced her to pull the Article 50 trigger. The Brexiters really wanted her to and the EU side weren't prepared to start negotiating until she did, but she could at least have spent some time resolving the contradictions of what Britain wanted to do so that when the negotiations started they could spend the time negotiating with the EU instead of the British negotiating with themselves. And a more spirited strategy could potentially have done an end-run around the whole Article 50 thing.
Like I've said, the hard Leavers aren't really serious about Britain leaving.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think there are two factors.
1. They think that, as the EU and the UK will continually chafe, that if we don't leave now, we'll leave more utterly and finally at some point in the future. They fear that some kind of halfway house - not that the WA is actually like that, but you can't expect people to read documents - will end up being popular with voters (like the EEA is in Norway), and therefore they want to avoid it at all costs.
2. Sometimes I think they're sole pleasure in life is in bitching about the EU. It's great that somebody else is to blame. It means you don't have to think about whether the UK's welfare or education system is part of the problem. Much easier - in the words of MJ Hibbert - "to put the blame on agencies outside ourselves, not to take responsibility for ourselves". (Albeit he was talking about losing weight...)
It's something you typically see in children "if you don't give me everything I want, I'll have none of it, and that will show you."
Like I've said, the hard Leavers aren't really serious about Britain leaving.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think there are two factors.
1. They think that, as the EU and the UK will continually chafe, that if we don't leave now, we'll leave more utterly and finally at some point in the future. They fear that some kind of halfway house - not that the WA is actually like that, but you can't expect people to read documents - will end up being popular with voters (like the EEA is in Norway), and therefore they want to avoid it at all costs.
2. Sometimes I think they're sole pleasure in life is in bitching about the EU. It's great that somebody else is to blame. It means you don't have to think about whether the UK's welfare or education system is part of the problem. Much easier - in the words of MJ Hibbert - "to put the blame on agencies outside ourselves, not to take responsibility for ourselves". (Albeit he was talking about losing weight...)
It's something you typically see in children "if you don't give me everything I want, I'll have none of it, and that will show you."
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
So, basically, we're pretty similar, except that - probably just as well in a doctor - you're a little more conscientious than I am.
Sometimes I smile when I see someone just miss the train I'm on. I don't know what that says about me.
Mwhahahaha.
It's just a small step from that to deliberately destabilising Crossrail...
I think another GE gives May's deal (Or a Corbyn brexit) a better chance of passing than a 2nd red quite honestly. It might appeal to both front benches shortly.
On this week's result, Theresa May would need to win almost every seat in the house to get the vote through with just conservative votes. A majority of 230 wouldn't be enough.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
So, basically, we're pretty similar, except that - probably just as well in a doctor - you're a little more conscientious than I am.
Sometimes I smile when I see someone just miss the train I'm on. I don't know what that says about me.
Mwhahahaha.
It's just a small step from that to deliberately destabilising Crossrail...
Oi.
I wasn't going to say anything, but it does seem like Crossrail's problems are very - how to put this - recent, and coincide with your outbreak of misanthropy.
From David Cameron, who recklessly gambled his country’s future on a referendum in order to isolate some whingers in his Conservative party, to the opportunistic Boris Johnson, who jumped on the Brexit bandwagon to secure the prime ministerial chair once warmed by his role model Winston Churchill, and the top-hatted, theatrically retro Jacob Rees-Mogg, whose fund management company has set up an office within the European Union even as he vehemently scorns it, the British political class has offered to the world an astounding spectacle of mendacious, intellectually limited hustlers.
It 's a good example of how hard it is to write well about things you hate.
It is also a good example of how a significant percentage of the world sees Britain.
Doubtless they do.
In much the same way that lots of people have outdated stereotypes of other nations.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
Somewhat similar to the Brexit hardliners. People blame you for giving them what they demanded from you.
There’s still a large constituency in Indian politics today that pursues electoral success by blaming all the country’s ills on the British.
It’s not as big as the disinterested one that’s moved on and now has bigger fish to fry.
Yeah, 'cause Somerville served octopus ALL THE TIME.
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
There’s still a large constituency in Indian politics today that pursues electoral success by blaming all the country’s ills on the British.
It’s not as big as the disinterested one that’s moved on and now has bigger fish to fry.
But that does rather give the lie to the suggestion on these boards a couple of days ago that Brexiteers will get a nasty shock when we leave and they find everything isn't the fault of a bunch of third rate drunken wannabe federalists in Brussels.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
I would have thought it's quite hard to avoid eating with suckers in Oxford. In my experience place is full of them!
Are some Brexiteers addicted to disappointment and frustration? Do they so crave the righteous indignation that flows from being thwarted that they are actively trying to sabotage their own project? How else to explain the extraordinary strategic incompetence of Tory MPs who say they want Britain to leave the EU yet behave in a way that makes it increasingly likely that Britain will not do so?
There are many Conservative Members who, like me, voted to remain but accept, admittedly reluctantly and with some misgivings, that we are leaving the European Union. We have compromised at every stage of the process to try to find a way to make this work, and the deal before us is as far as I am prepared to go. If some of my colleagues want to blow this up in pursuit of an ideologically purist fantasy, fine—go ahead—but I am done. My patience and goodwill will be gone, along with the patience and goodwill of many other Conservative Members.
Yeah, 'cause Somerville served octopus ALL THE TIME.
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
“A” complaint. So one person didn’t like it and now no-one else can have it? What happened to, “if you don’t like it, you don’t have to eat it. Skip it or ask for an alternative choice.” Universities are supposed to be about new experience, exploring yourself and going slightly outside your comfort zone.
I suspect it’s clickbait anyway. Such a story gets the name of this “Baroness” into the headlines with the words “change the culture” and so will make her feel she’s doing something and that she’s being recognised for it, even though I’d argue whoever advised her that it was a very bad tip.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I don’t know what circles you mix in but I encounter a general friendliness, enquires about our football teams and the health of the Queen.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
And NYT readers can look down their noses at Britain.....wonderful displacement activity from their own predicament....
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
One would have thought that Americans, Asians, and Africans would also be used to arrogant, entitled, privately educated elitists as well.
I think another GE gives May's deal (Or a Corbyn brexit) a better chance of passing than a 2nd red quite honestly. It might appeal to both front benches shortly.
On this week's result, Theresa May would need to win almost every seat in the house to get the vote through with just conservative votes. A majority of 230 wouldn't be enough.
And I bet the Tory candidates sitting in the harder to win seats are on average more off the scale than those who got elected.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I don’t know what circles you mix in but I encounter a general friendliness, enquires about our football teams and the health of the Queen.
Have you met many Australians??
Views of the UK are complex and surprisingly sophisticated. Outside of the US, my experience is that people know a lot more about us than we know about them. That’s one of our problems, of course.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I don’t know what circles you mix in but I encounter a general friendliness, enquires about our football teams and the health of the Queen.
That too, but the idea that the Commonwealth is yearning for the good old days is for the birds.
They prefer their own unaccountable arrogant elites!
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I don’t know what circles you mix in but I encounter a general friendliness, enquires about our football teams and the health of the Queen.
On topic: who are the politicians on the far-left and far-right of the main thread header picture?
left is Tim Farron.. right is some ukip loon...
Tim who?
He has a chain of hairdressers in South Wales. Very well known he is there. You ask anyone "That Tim," they'll say, "he does a wonderful choirboy cut".
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
One would have thought that Americans, Asians, and Africans would also be used to arrogant, entitled, privately educated elitists as well.
Certainly get that in Thailand, which never had the dubious pleasure of British or other European control, (and is very proud of that.)
It is also a good example of how a significant percentage of the world sees Britain.
It's pretty much the view of Britain that my wife was taught in school in India and one you see repeatedly in the Indian media - especially in cinema and TV. The idea that the Commonwealth countries are waiting to welcome back Britain as the paterfamilias is, like everything else to do with Brexit, a retrograde fantasy.
The idea that's what everyone wants is a straw man fantasy to avoid any wider issues by focusing on something easy that makes them feel superior.
The Brexit game is patently not worth the thimble to be presented at the end of it. Yet in Theresa May’s humiliation on Tuesday, there were prizes for almost everybody else: a glimpse of opportunity for her rivals in cabinet; a revival of their sadomasochistic no-deal fantasies for the zealots; the hope of a second referendum for remainers; proof of the near-collapse of the Westminster order for nationalists; the hope of a general election for Jeremy Corbyn. But in truth nobody has won anything – it is a losing game all round.
If the choice between shooting oneself in the head or in the foot is the answer to Britain’s long-term problems, surely the wrong question is being asked.
European leaders have continually expressed exasperation that the British have really been negotiating not with them, but with each other. But perhaps it is time to recognise that there is a useful truth in this: Brexit is really just the vehicle that has delivered a fraught state to a place where it can no longer pretend to be a settled and functioning democracy.
Are some Brexiteers addicted to disappointment and frustration? Do they so crave the righteous indignation that flows from being thwarted that they are actively trying to sabotage their own project? How else to explain the extraordinary strategic incompetence of Tory MPs who say they want Britain to leave the EU yet behave in a way that makes it increasingly likely that Britain will not do so?
More likely they cannot see the potential consequences of their actions in much the way some remainer mps did not consider that starting the ticking clock meant the timer would end no matter what at done point. Both will express surprise and outrage at very obvious direct consequences to their obduracy.
Isnt it the case that Labour are ahead in the polls if you strip out Yougov? This suggests it is a house effect and give that Yougov didn't make a particularly great account of themselves in May-June 2017 I'm not sure how anyone is looking at the polls in the round and concluding that the Tories are ahead.
Mr. kle4, that makes me think: perhaps it's just like Labour and their leadership contest?
Some MPs, (including, again, many in Labour), simply didn't understand the very basic concept of what they were voting for. May does deserve much criticism, but she's not the only one.
Yeah, 'cause Somerville served octopus ALL THE TIME.
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
I read the book Other Minds last summer which is basically about octopuses. They are quite clever creatures. but they only live for about 2 years.
I think there is some truth in that article but to pretend that there isnt a lot of unhappiness with the EU in Britain as well is, I think, overly simplistic.
Incidentally the entrance into office of the far-right in Andalusia reminds me, I had been wondering whether the Spanish had their own 'Gammon' problem. So I was entertained to see that their leader is called Francisco Serrano, presumably after the florid ham.
Yeah, 'cause Somerville served octopus ALL THE TIME.
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
I read the book Other Minds last summer which is basically about octopuses. They are quite clever creatures. but they only live for about 2 years.
Yeah, 'cause Somerville served octopus ALL THE TIME.
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
“A” complaint. So one person didn’t like it and now no-one else can have it? What happened to, “if you don’t like it, you don’t have to eat it. Skip it or ask for an alternative choice.” Universities are supposed to be about new experience, exploring yourself and going slightly outside your comfort zone.
I suspect it’s clickbait anyway. Such a story gets the name of this “Baroness” into the headlines with the words “change the culture” and so will make her feel she’s doing something and that she’s being recognised for it, even though I’d argue whoever advised her that it was a very bad tip.
they do nice fish and chips at Somerville, pie beans and mash is pretty good too but not as good as LMHs - plebs could stick to the tasty stuff and leave yucky octopus to the poshos
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
Fun quiz, and I recognise the result for me with some qujite drastic scores. I suspect all the responses err on the side of being nice to the respondent:
openness to experience 33 out of 100 ("a little uncomfortably far left or right")
agreeableness 96 out of 100 ("The highly agreeable aren’t merely the people feeding the hungry and building community — they’re often the ones leading the organizations that do those things. ")
conscientiousness 58 out of 100 ("There are benefits and drawbacks to people on both ends of the spectrum, but if we had to choose a roommate, we’d pick you — someone in the middle.")
negative emotionality 0 out of 100 ("You whistle while you work, even if the rest of the office is glaring into their fourth cup of coffee. ")
extraversion 46 out of 100 ("Being in the middle ain’t so bad, really.")
I think there is some truth in that article but to pretend that there isnt a lot of unhappiness with the EU in Britain as well is, I think, overly simplistic.
Agreed. People not liking the EU was a big motivator behind the Leave vote. The bigger problem is that their Leave vote was a massive oversimplification. Saying "Don't like" isn't a solution to a problem.
If you are in a grunt job you hate, deciding to leave it on the basis that they will keep paying you anyway isn't a probable solution for you.
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
Fun quiz, and I recognise the result for me with some qujite drastic scores. I suspect all the responses err on the side of being nice to the respondent:
It had it's work cut out trying to do so with my high negative emotionally.
With the shadow cabinet I can quite believe that. The cabinet, in the same position, would recognise the two concerns but do nothing but leak to a journalist.
It would be interesting to see other PBers scores.
I wasn't asked about Goldsmith!
openness to experience 96 out of 100 Agreeableness 75 out of 100 Conscientiousness 67 out of 100 Negative emotionality 17 out of 100 Extraversion 67 out of 100
Fun quiz, and I recognise the result for me with some qujite drastic scores. I suspect all the responses err on the side of being nice to the respondent:
openness to experience 33 out of 100 ("a little uncomfortably far left or right")
agreeableness 96 out of 100 ("The highly agreeable aren’t merely the people feeding the hungry and building community — they’re often the ones leading the organizations that do those things. ")
conscientiousness 58 out of 100 ("There are benefits and drawbacks to people on both ends of the spectrum, but if we had to choose a roommate, we’d pick you — someone in the middle.")
negative emotionality 0 out of 100 ("You whistle while you work, even if the rest of the office is glaring into their fourth cup of coffee. ")
extraversion 46 out of 100 ("Being in the middle ain’t so bad, really.")
openness to experience 88 out of 100 agreeableness 17 out of 100 conscientiousness 63 out of 100 negative emotionality 46 out of 100 extraversion 54 out of 100
Surprised to score so highly (averagely) for extraversion, as I really am a bit of a lone wolf. Lots of people around, but very few I'd actually call friends.
The disagreeableness doesn't surprise me at all, I don't see it as a weakness (certainly not in my career, where being argumentative helps).
openness to experience 88 out of 100 agreeableness 58 out of 100 conscientiousness 58 out of 100 negative emotionality 29 out of 100 extraversion 38 out of 100
Isnt it the case that Labour are ahead in the polls if you strip out Yougov? This suggests it is a house effect and give that Yougov didn't make a particularly great account of themselves in May-June 2017 I'm not sure how anyone is looking at the polls in the round and concluding that the Tories are ahead.
overfocus on YouGov because they come out more often. Simple as.
Yeah, 'cause Somerville served octopus ALL THE TIME.
I can see why people might object to octopus - I know I would pass on that option. But not because it represents privilege - just because I don't want to eat things with suckers.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
“A” complaint. So one person didn’t like it and now no-one else can have it? What happened to, “if you don’t like it, you don’t have to eat it. Skip it or ask for an alternative choice.” Universities are supposed to be about new experience, exploring yourself and going slightly outside your comfort zone.
I suspect it’s clickbait anyway. Such a story gets the name of this “Baroness” into the headlines with the words “change the culture” and so will make her feel she’s doing something and that she’s being recognised for it, even though I’d argue whoever advised her that it was a very bad tip.
My wife went to Somerville (before it was mixed) from quite a poor background. Her view “feed them egg and chips and tell them to shut up”.
openness to experience 50 out of 100 agreeableness 79 out of 100 conscientiousness 50 out of 100 negative emotionality 8 out of 100 extraversion 58 out of 100
Osborne wasn’t worth listening to as Chancellor. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.
tim wasn't worth listening to as a "farmer" on here. Not sure why anyone would want to listen to him now.
Tim was sharp and very caustic. Ironically though Osborne was actually pretty good. With hindsight. Tim played the “how awful Osborne is”, around 2012 when it started to look a bit ropey. But in the years following many of his measures have shown to have been the right thing.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I don’t know what circles you mix in but I encounter a general friendliness, enquires about our football teams and the health of the Queen.
Have you met many Australians??
Views of the UK are complex and surprisingly sophisticated. Outside of the US, my experience is that people know a lot more about us than we know about them. That’s one of our problems, of course.
Lots. They are remarkably interested in UK culture and politics.
One recently mentioned to me they watch most of our TV shows and soaps, and the vast majority have British heritage, so they feel the same and are very interested.
Biggest difference I’ve noticed is an ambivalence towards the monarchy, albeit a good level of respect for HMQ, personally.
I've never truly understood the criticism of Britain over partition. Mountbatten tried to avoid it. Jinnah wouldn't have it.
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
I got as far as this:
Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit
Then stopped.
If the writer thinks the two year timetable was May's idea I suspect the rest of the article is equally misinformed....
I saw it as a lengthy hate filled rant against Britain, anything British, and anything a Briton or Britain has ever done to anyone, ever.
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
The image of an amateurish, entitled, arrogant British public school elite is one that I have encountered quite a bit on my travels in America, Africa, Asia and Australia, though strangely not in Europe apart from Ireland. Maybe its because in Europe they are used to arrogant elitists and that in itself is evidence of our Europeaness!
I don’t know what circles you mix in but I encounter a general friendliness, enquires about our football teams and the health of the Queen.
That too, but the idea that the Commonwealth is yearning for the good old days is for the birds.
They prefer their own unaccountable arrogant elites!
I’m not sure who’s arguing that they are.
I think they would be interested in greater foreign policy and defence cooperation, and freer movement of professionals.
Mr. 43, indeed. Still weird that Cameron didn't (and there was some, but not much, criticism of this at the time) require the official Leave campaign to put together an alternative prospectus. Would've helped his own side tremendously.
On topic: who are the politicians on the far-left and far-right of the main thread header picture?
left is Tim Farron.. right is some ukip loon...
Tim who?
The chap who whined about people asking his opinion on something during the election then admitted after the election he lied about his answer because of politics.
Are some Brexiteers addicted to disappointment and frustration? Do they so crave the righteous indignation that flows from being thwarted that they are actively trying to sabotage their own project? How else to explain the extraordinary strategic incompetence of Tory MPs who say they want Britain to leave the EU yet behave in a way that makes it increasingly likely that Britain will not do so?
There are many Conservative Members who, like me, voted to remain but accept, admittedly reluctantly and with some misgivings, that we are leaving the European Union. We have compromised at every stage of the process to try to find a way to make this work, and the deal before us is as far as I am prepared to go. If some of my colleagues want to blow this up in pursuit of an ideologically purist fantasy, fine—go ahead—but I am done. My patience and goodwill will be gone, along with the patience and goodwill of many other Conservative Members.
Comments
But really, we're amateurs:
https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/j5zywd/meet-dick-run-claire-the-woman-who-draws-dicks-with-running-apps
Mwhahahaha.
The British government had announced that India would have independence by June 1948. In the first week of June 1947, however, Mountbatten suddenly proclaimed that the transfer of power would happen on Aug. 15, 1947 — a “ludicrously early date,” as he himself blurted out. In July, a British lawyer named Cyril Radcliffe was entrusted with the task of drawing new boundaries of a country he had never previously visited....
It won't lead to impeachment, but it will turn off just a few voters here or there.
Really, though, the biggest threat is the economy.
The government shutdown, which sees around 0.7% of people going without pay (1.3% of households have lost an income), will cause lower consumer spending. We haven't seen much of an impact of it yet. Some small businesses will shut, and people will lose their jobs.
And it will drag on the economy and on Trump's reputation for economic consequence.
If Donald Trump had delayed the tax cuts by a year, and avoided a government slowdown, then the 2020 election would have been held in a period of maximum economic growth.
Now, not so much.
"Oxford college bans octopus from menu in bid to make disadvantaged students feel more 'comfortable'"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2019/01/17/oxford-college-bans-octopus-menu-bid-make-disadvantaged-students/
Maybe Congress would have preferred Britain to stay for a further five years to police a benign split but I don't remember much more from them during that period of history other than "Quit India".
So we did.
Somewhat similar to the Brexit hardliners. People blame you for giving them what they demanded from you.
Remainers will start to smell a rat......
The funny thing is that such people find welcoming audiences amongst our elites here.
Coincidence?
There’s still a large constituency in Indian politics today that pursues electoral success by blaming all the country’s ills on the British.
It’s not as big as the disinterested one that’s moved on and now has bigger fish to fry.
Experiencing new things is part of going to university. Some you will want to take up, some you won't. But just limiting things to your existing comfort zone is not the right way to approach things.
By trying to appear progressive, Somerville are just looking slightly patronising. There are bigger fish to fry - so to speak.
To keep them in their comfort zone, perhaps they should just spend 3 years doing their A-levels again? Whilst eating Coco Pops.....
There are many Conservative Members who, like me, voted to remain but accept, admittedly reluctantly and with some misgivings, that we are leaving the European Union. We have compromised at every stage of the process to try to find a way to make this work, and the deal before us is as far as I am prepared to go. If some of my colleagues want to blow this up in pursuit of an ideologically purist fantasy, fine—go ahead—but I am done. My patience and goodwill will be gone, along with the patience and goodwill of many other Conservative Members.
I suspect it’s clickbait anyway. Such a story gets the name of this “Baroness” into the headlines with the words “change the culture” and so will make her feel she’s doing something and that she’s being recognised for it, even though I’d argue whoever advised her that it was a very bad tip.
Fintan O'Toole
Brexit is just the vehicle by which a fractured state has come to realise that its politics are no longer fit for purpose"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/18/europe-brexit-britain-state-politics-fit-for-purpose
Views of the UK are complex and surprisingly sophisticated. Outside of the US, my experience is that people know a lot more about us than we know about them. That’s one of our problems, of course.
They prefer their own unaccountable arrogant elites!
Maybe the college will serve chicken McNuggets.
Going to reach the heady heights of 3C today.
Can anyone think of worse party leaders than May and Corbyn to be handling this?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/personality-quiz/?group=-LWUbpnsPGmGj00hx03A#result-charts
Fox and Pidcock.
Farage and Farron.
Goderich and Lamb.
If the choice between shooting oneself in the head or in the foot is the answer to Britain’s long-term problems, surely the wrong question is being asked.
European leaders have continually expressed exasperation that the British have really been negotiating not with them, but with each other. But perhaps it is time to recognise that there is a useful truth in this: Brexit is really just the vehicle that has delivered a fraught state to a place where it can no longer pretend to be a settled and functioning democracy.
Guto Bebb and Emma Dent Coad
Some MPs, (including, again, many in Labour), simply didn't understand the very basic concept of what they were voting for. May does deserve much criticism, but she's not the only one.
Somewhere out there is an octopus that knows how to sort out our Brexit mess.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6602153/Largest-great-white-shark-Deep-Blue-spotted-Hawaii.html
Have a good morning.
I bought one last summer for the barbeque and it only cost £1.50
openness to experience
33 out of 100 ("a little uncomfortably far left or right")
agreeableness
96 out of 100 ("The highly agreeable aren’t merely the people feeding the hungry and building community — they’re often the ones leading the organizations that do those things. ")
conscientiousness
58 out of 100 ("There are benefits and drawbacks to people on both ends of the spectrum, but if we had to choose a roommate, we’d pick you — someone in the middle.")
negative emotionality
0 out of 100 ("You whistle while you work, even if the rest of the office is glaring into their fourth cup of coffee. ")
extraversion
46 out of 100 ("Being in the middle ain’t so bad, really.")
If you are in a grunt job you hate, deciding to leave it on the basis that they will keep paying you anyway isn't a probable solution for you.
54/100
Agreeableness
54/100
Conscientiousness
33/100
Negative emotionally
92/100
Extraversion
13/100
I think I failed the test.
Apparently I suffered on both agreeableness and conscientiousness due to low trust and being disorganised.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote
88 out of 100
agreeableness
17 out of 100
conscientiousness
63 out of 100
negative emotionality
46 out of 100
extraversion
54 out of 100
Surprised to score so highly (averagely) for extraversion, as I really am a bit of a lone wolf. Lots of people around, but very few I'd actually call friends.
The disagreeableness doesn't surprise me at all, I don't see it as a weakness (certainly not in my career, where being argumentative helps).
openness to experience 88 out of 100
agreeableness 58 out of 100
conscientiousness 58 out of 100
negative emotionality 29 out of 100
extraversion 38 out of 100
50 out of 100
agreeableness
79 out of 100
conscientiousness
50 out of 100
negative emotionality
8 out of 100
extraversion
58 out of 100
One recently mentioned to me they watch most of our TV shows and soaps, and the vast majority have British heritage, so they feel the same and are very interested.
Biggest difference I’ve noticed is an ambivalence towards the monarchy, albeit a good level of respect for HMQ, personally.
I think they would be interested in greater foreign policy and defence cooperation, and freer movement of professionals.
Should we call you Dr Troll?
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/leo-varadkar-is-40-today-here-s-40-pearls-of-wisdom-he-really-should-know-1.3761829