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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Coming up at 2100 GMT on Channel 4 – Brexit the movie

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%
  • dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    AndyJS said:

    Just decided to take a look at the spreadsheet which correctly predicted how 289 out of 326 districts in England would vote at the EU referendum.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0

    Was there anything systematic behind the one it didn't predict?
  • timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    Channel 4 revert to type in the last 30 seconds of the show

    'It wasn't fair!'

    Well it was obviously written by Remainers but Cumberbatch managed to give an excellent portrayal of Cummings despite being a Remainer himself
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    I'm watching on Channel 4 +1 so I'm only half-way through.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    I dont recall the driving bit and we can walk to our polling station if necessary
    That's you past 20,000 posts Big_G !
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2019
    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Just decided to take a look at the spreadsheet which correctly predicted how 289 out of 326 districts in England would vote at the EU referendum.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0

    Was there anything systematic behind the one it didn't predict?
    It was mainly due to places like Slough, Luton, Birmingham, Barking&Dagenham where I expected working-class EM voters to be more in favour of Remain whereas evidently a high proportion of them voted Leave.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    You'd never find a British author over 50 hitching up with a woman in her early 20s...

    Night all!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    Is Yann Moix another of SeanT's pseudonyms?
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    Not what they are saying on R5 at mom...they are saying that it would be a major problem as our Maps have already been pretty much written out..
  • Excellent production and some great acting.

    You don't have to buy into every single word to accept the central thesis that Leave won because of a superior campaign.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?

    What makes him think he is attractive enough to make any woman want to sleep with him?

    That is probably the root cause of his angst :D
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    I dont recall the driving bit and we can walk to our polling station if necessary
    Stop messing with my plans for taking over the UK...
    Sorry !!!!!

    And just past 20,000 posts . Amazing
    You clearly have too much time on your hands. Anyone would think you are retired ....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    tyson said:

    viewcode said:

    tyson said:

    AndyJS said:

    I'm finding the style of this programme difficult to watch.

    It's very Lindsey Andersen, he of "If" and "Oh Lucky Man"....

    Oh Christ: that bad?
    Wasn't Lindsey Anderson an ideological right-winger?


    I was criticising his style. There were a lot of state-of-the-nation British films in the 60s and 70s, whether kitchen-sink or experimental. His ones were lauded by the critics, but I found them self important and bathetic.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited January 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    Cyclefree said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?
    It tends to be the wallet of 50 year old men 25 year old women find attractive rather than their body, not that I can think of any PBers who might possibly be able to comment
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    Will it cover the whole 30 seconds Jeremy Corbyn spent campaigning for Remain? And the 29 seconds Theresa May did?

    Actually Theresa May made one speech for Remain that was informed and intelligent. She presumably disowns it now.
    Was that the one where she said she'd like to be able to ignore the European Court of Justice?
    I had forgotten about that.(Although I think you mean the European Court of Human Rights) A partially informed and intelligent speech, unlike any since Brexit.
  • Excellent production and some great acting.

    You don't have to buy into every single word to accept the central thesis that Leave won because of a superior campaign.

    Spoiler alert!!!!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    edited January 2019
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
  • timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256


    Expect a May GE.

    May may go in May?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited January 2019
    Things moving in the wrong direction still for the deal, it's remarkable some still think it will pass. The Brexiteers have really helped make the case for their counterparts in remain.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    edited January 2019
    Interestingly Boris seemed to be one of the few politicians Cummings had much time for, if No Deal maybe cometh the hour cometh the man, with Cummings in No 10 as an adviser
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    tyson said:

    AndyJS said:

    I'm finding the style of this programme difficult to watch.

    It's very Lindsey Andersen, he of "If" and "Oh Lucky Man"....

    I like both those films, and even his less well known Britannia Hospital.

    But very predictive of our dystophic post Brexit future:

    https://youtu.be/GJ1LG08ssaM
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Cyclefree said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?
    What makes you think he thinks they would?
  • timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    I am not so certain. You would think having a terrorist sympathiser and antisemite enabler as leader would do that, but had the opposite effect. We live in strange times.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163


    Expect a May GE.

    May may go in May?
    Maybe.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742


    Expect a May GE.

    May may go in May?
    She May do...

    But A50 needs extension or withdrawal first. She cannot be relied upon to keep her word, or be able to deliver her party to back one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Wait for the sequel.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    It was a truly dreadful film but so much money was sunk into it that it had to be hyped unto success.
  • dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    I dont recall the driving bit and we can walk to our polling station if necessary
    That's you past 20,000 posts Big_G !
    Amazing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    She can't buy it. I'd bet she would offer to just pass what they want and they'd say no, those mps do not want to take a stance on brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    It is a great film, which is why we remember it, unlike The Last Jedi
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    It's not like the movie that ends up being seen as better always wins Oscars, nor is every Oscar winner good.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    You must like bad direction, bad acting, and bad scriptwriting, Hyufd. The music was good though. And there was one very good scene when the lifeboats looked back on a tranquil sea as the boat began to sink. That was effectively done, and historically accurate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    It is a great film, which is why we remember it, unlike The Last Jedi
    A poor example perhaps- good and bad the various star wars films will have greater impact and memory than most.
  • Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    It is a great film, which is why we remember it, unlike The Last Jedi
    I remember it vividly as a waste of three hours.
  • Just looked up 1997 movies. The competition wasn’t exactly stellar, good will hunting probably being the other film that is still remembered.

    For me lost highway was the best from that year.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?
    What makes you think he thinks they would?
    Well... he is a man. They all seem to think they are Apollo or have the body of Hercules.... ;)
  • Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    It is a great film, which is why we remember it, unlike The Last Jedi
    I remember it vividly as a waste of three hours.
    My only recollection is of the cinema audience cheering at the end when DiCaprio sank into the icy depths.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    It is a great film, which is why we remember it, unlike The Last Jedi
    I enjoyed Last Jedi too, certainly more than most recent films in the Star Wars franchise.

    Titanic and Saving Private Ryan and Jurassic Park were great 1990s films but had to be seen in the cinema to have full effect
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    For some time the Oscar winners have been decided by overt marketing campaigns and covert threats and pressure from unscrupulous people. The awards are littered with egregious choices that don't otherwise make sense.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?
    What makes you think he thinks they would?
    Well... he is a man. They all seem to think they are Apollo or have the body of Hercules.... ;)
    A lot of older men confuse their wealth with good looks. Twas ever thus, I think.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Re Titanic.

    My great-grandfather warned everyone that the Titanic would sink. He screamed that the ship would sink, but nobody would listen.

    He was a brave man. He did not give up. He warned them again and again... until he was kicked out of the cinema
  • viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    For some time the Oscar winners have been decided by overt marketing campaigns and covert threats and pressure from unscrupulous people. The awards are littered with egregious choices that don't otherwise make sense.
    I blame brexit ;-)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think the voting age should be lowered to 60. Above that, it is obvious that brexitism becomes a serious issue and all sound judgement is lost
    I am 75 and voted remain and my wife is nearly 80 and voted remain.

    You are not going to disinfranchise us are you
    It will not be a problem. If you recall some months back, it was decided here on PB that you should not be driving. I recall your vigorous rearguard action defending car usage in rural Wales, but with Leavers confiscating your transport, my disenfranchisement of you will not be an issue since you cannot get to the polling station. Postal ballots are out since your local Maomentum Chapter will be faking your vote to keep JC in power.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788256

    French author Yann Moix says women over 50 'too old' to love

    A French writer is being criticised after saying he would be "incapable" of loving a woman aged 50 or above... despite being 50 himself.

    Yann Moix told Marie Claire magazine he found women of that age "too old".

    "I prefer younger women's bodies, that's all. End of. The body of a 25-year-old woman is extraordinary. The body of a woman of 50 is not extraordinary at all," he said.

    The comments have sparked an angry backlash on social media.

    He's obviously slept with the wrong sort of 50 year old woman.

    Anyway, what makes him think that a 25 year old would find the body of a 50 year old man attractive?
    What makes you think he thinks they would?
    Well... he is a man. They all seem to think they are Apollo or have the body of Hercules.... ;)
    *modestly* Well, I do try to keep in shape. :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    For some time the Oscar winners have been decided by overt marketing campaigns and covert threats and pressure from unscrupulous people. The awards are littered with egregious choices that don't otherwise make sense.
    I saw The Favourite last week. Pretty good, but not convinced an Oscar winner. I need to catch up on some of the other contenders.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Interestingly Boris seemed to be one of the few politicians Cummings had much time for, if No Deal maybe cometh the hour cometh the man, with Cummings in No 10 as an adviser

    How could he be so blind or deaf to the shorcomings of such a vile human being - as evidenced by his connections to the criminal fraternity exemplified by Darius Guppy?
  • timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
    Still no answer to how their lives will be better.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    You must like bad direction, bad acting, and bad scriptwriting, Hyufd. The music was good though. And there was one very good scene when the lifeboats looked back on a tranquil sea as the boat began to sink. That was effectively done, and historically accurate.
    I like good films, there are barely any blockbusters recently that can match up to Titanic, we just have endless repeats of franchises and superhero movies, so we have to look to movies like 3 Billboards outside Ebbing to bring some new interesting narrative. I did though like Mary Poppins Returns
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    You must like bad direction, bad acting, and bad scriptwriting, Hyufd. The music was good though. And there was one very good scene when the lifeboats looked back on a tranquil sea as the boat began to sink. That was effectively done, and historically accurate.
    I like good films, there are barely any blockbusters recently that can match up to Titanic, we just have endless repeats of franchises and superhero movies, so we have to look to movies like 3 Billboards outside Ebbing to bring some new interesting narrative. I did though like Mary Poppins Returns
    Dunkirk?
  • Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
    Still no answer to how their lives will be better.

    They won't, but you can't keep voting for a system that persistently craps on you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
    Still no answer to how their lives will be better.

    Well they wanted to reduce immigration and be able to at least elect MPs to are able to make more of our own laws, the votes for Brexit and for Corbyn were both votes against the Corporate and multi national elite
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
  • kle4 said:

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
    He will do the same as he did with trident.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interestingly Boris seemed to be one of the few politicians Cummings had much time for, if No Deal maybe cometh the hour cometh the man, with Cummings in No 10 as an adviser

    How could he be so blind or deaf to the shorcomings of such a vile human being - as evidenced by his connections to the criminal fraternity exemplified by Darius Guppy?
    Boris connects with people as he showed in the London Mayoral election and the EU referendum, he is not running for Pope, you did not even have a good word to say about Paddy Ashdown
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    stjohn said:

    Re Titanic.

    My great-grandfather warned everyone that the Titanic would sink. He screamed that the ship would sink, but nobody would listen.

    He was a brave man. He did not give up. He warned them again and again... until he was kicked out of the cinema

    LOL!
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    kle4 said:

    Well... he is a man. They all seem to think they are Apollo or have the body of Hercules.... ;)

    *modestly* Well, I do try to keep in shape. :)
    I prefer to let myself go which is why I now have lost all my teeth and weigh 73st.



    Not.

    :D
  • kle4 said:

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
    There a good line in the Channel4 film when Mandeleson points out he voted against the EU in 1975 and hasn't changed his mind about anything since.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
    There a good line in the Channel4 film when Mandeleson points out he voted against the EU in 1975 and hasn't changed his mind about anything since.

    He doesn't need to change his mind, just his position.

    Not even that really, just say he cannot do x so must y, where Y is what the members want any way.

  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    kle4 said:

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
    Corbyn doesn’t seem to be the kind to change his mind
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Roger said:

    stjohn said:

    Re Titanic.

    My great-grandfather warned everyone that the Titanic would sink. He screamed that the ship would sink, but nobody would listen.

    He was a brave man. He did not give up. He warned them again and again... until he was kicked out of the cinema

    LOL!
    Thanks Roger.

    :-)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
    Still no answer to how their lives will be better.

    They won't, but you can't keep voting for a system that persistently craps on you.
    I understand that, but I also understand that these angry folk with shit prospects are not going to be happy with what they get. Tories shouldnt count on their votes continuing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
    Corbyn doesn’t seem to be the kind to change his mind
    He won't. May probably hasn't changed her mind about remain being better than leaving, it doesn't prevent her also thinking she has to see us leave now.
  • HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    It is a great film, which is why we remember it, unlike The Last Jedi
    I enjoyed Last Jedi too, certainly more than most recent films in the Star Wars franchise.
    Shite screenplay!
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    timmo said:

    So what happens to the euro elections?
    If it's an extension, nothing.
    On the contrary, if we're still members on 23rd May we have to elect our 73 MEPs. In fact it has been suggested that our MEPs would remain in office even after the extension to Article 50 expired and the UK had left.

    A fine old mess, in other words!
    Yes, I think you are right on reflection.

    TMay is going to have to buy Labour abstention somehow and get her deal through.

    Expect a May GE.
    If Labour facilitates Brexit in any way shape or form, it is finished as an electoral force.
    This is the big unforeseen risk on the left. How many of the pro remain labour voters from 2017 will stay at home when they realise kind Grandpa Corbyn isn’t just very unkind about Jews but he doesn’t secretly want us to stay in the EU. If Corbynism goes out of fashion then Labour are screwed now that they have taken over the party mechanisms
    It's not just Labour voters, but the Labour membership that is strongly pro-remain.
    Which is Why he will change position. He probably would prefer we leave but he cannot help it happen other than through inaction. Not and keep the members happy. He's been in post long enough to have learned.
    There a good line in the Channel4 film when Mandeleson points out he voted against the EU in 1975 and hasn't changed his mind about anything since.

    He doesn't need to change his mind, just his position.

    Not even that really, just say he cannot do x so must y, where Y is what the members want any way.

    Yes, that's probably the best he can do, which is why he won't become a great Leader, or even PM.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
    Still no answer to how their lives will be better.

    They won't, but you can't keep voting for a system that persistently craps on you.
    I understand that, but I also understand that these angry folk with shit prospects are not going to be happy with what they get. Tories shouldnt count on their votes continuing.
    Those people in Clacton don't vote. They gave up voting long ago. They ought logically to be Labour voters, but they gave up believing in Labour long ago when Labour stopped believing in them.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interestingly Boris seemed to be one of the few politicians Cummings had much time for, if No Deal maybe cometh the hour cometh the man, with Cummings in No 10 as an adviser

    How could he be so blind or deaf to the shorcomings of such a vile human being - as evidenced by his connections to the criminal fraternity exemplified by Darius Guppy?
    Boris connects with people as he showed in the London Mayoral election and the EU referendum, he is not running for Pope, you did not even have a good word to say about Paddy Ashdown
    I made no critical comments re- Paddy Ashdown beyond saying I had not been a fan. Boris Johnson's connections to Darius Guppy ,however, can be reasonably questioned in the same way that Boothby was a friend of the Kray twins.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199
    edited January 2019
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Brexit - The Uncivil War' was very good I thought. Above all it captured how Dominic Cummings was able to target undecided and usual non voters by hammering home his 'take back control' and 'cost of the EU' message while letting Banks and Farage drive the immigration card for those voters most concerned about that (beyond the Turkey posters) thus creating the Coalition that got Leave to 52%

    It was well written, and got the gist of the campaign.

    Unleash King Mob...
    I think the kitchen conference call between Cameron, Mandelson and Craig Oliver got in one the reasons Remain lost, Cummings connected with people the establishment had ignored for too long as shown when he went to Canvey to a street Carswell barely knew existed to sign up an unemployed couple for Brexit who had not been contacted by a political party for years
    Yes, but in what way will their lives be better after Brexit? That much was obvious even in the scene.
    As was made clear they voted Leave as their lives were pretty shit anyway, uncontrolled globalisation and multinational corporations and an out of touch elite meant they felt they had nothing to lose by voting Leave and so they did
    Still no answer to how their lives will be better.

    They won't, but you can't keep voting for a system that persistently craps on you.
    I understand that, but I also understand that these angry folk with shit prospects are not going to be happy with what they get. Tories shouldnt count on their votes continuing.
    Plenty of unemployed and working class Leavers voted Leave in 2016, then for Corbyn in 2017, it was an anti establishment double whammy. Few are Tories
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    For some time the Oscar winners have been decided by overt marketing campaigns and covert threats and pressure from unscrupulous people. The awards are littered with egregious choices that don't otherwise make sense.
    I saw The Favourite last week. Pretty good, but not convinced an Oscar winner. I need to catch up on some of the other contenders.
    Maybe not. Thin year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Titanic did not win multiple Oscars as people did not know how it ended, it is how you tell the story that matters
    Films must have been really shit that year if that won multiple oscars.
    I enjoyed it, it was a real cinema experience when first seen on the big screen, however on the TV after multiple viewings it loses some of its impact
    You must like bad direction, bad acting, and bad scriptwriting, Hyufd. The music was good though. And there was one very good scene when the lifeboats looked back on a tranquil sea as the boat began to sink. That was effectively done, and historically accurate.
    I like good films, there are barely any blockbusters recently that can match up to Titanic, we just have endless repeats of franchises and superhero movies, so we have to look to movies like 3 Billboards outside Ebbing to bring some new interesting narrative. I did though like Mary Poppins Returns
    Dunkirk?
    Yes that was alright, though I went with a friend who fell asleep. Darkest Hour was also good if a bit of a Churchill hagiography
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interestingly Boris seemed to be one of the few politicians Cummings had much time for, if No Deal maybe cometh the hour cometh the man, with Cummings in No 10 as an adviser

    How could he be so blind or deaf to the shorcomings of such a vile human being - as evidenced by his connections to the criminal fraternity exemplified by Darius Guppy?
    Boris connects with people as he showed in the London Mayoral election and the EU referendum, he is not running for Pope, you did not even have a good word to say about Paddy Ashdown
    I made no critical comments re- Paddy Ashdown beyond saying I had not been a fan. Boris Johnson's connections to Darius Guppy ,however, can be reasonably questioned in the same way that Boothby was a friend of the Kray twins.
    I’d always imagined you were a big Boris fan ;-)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
    I caught the last 15 mins on Channel 4 plus 1. Not bad, although they do seem to have forgotten that it pissed down in London on referendum day. Was Cummings's testimony to the Commons word-for-word or edited-for-dramatic-effect?
  • AndyJS said:

    Just decided to take a look at the spreadsheet which correctly predicted how 289 out of 326 districts in England would vote at the EU referendum.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0

    That spreadsheet was the most impressive part of the entire referendum night.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
    I caught the last 15 mins on Channel 4 plus 1. Not bad, although they do seem to have forgotten that it pissed down in London on referendum day. Was Cummings's testimony to the Commons word-for-word or edited-for-dramatic-effect?
    It was made up completely, Cummings has never testified after the vote. One of the criticisms of the program.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
    I caught the last 15 mins on Channel 4 plus 1. Not bad, although they do seem to have forgotten that it pissed down in London on referendum day. Was Cummings's testimony to the Commons word-for-word or edited-for-dramatic-effect?
    It was made up completely, Cummings has never testified after the vote. One of the criticisms of the program.
    He did appear before the Treasury Select Committee but before the vote
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,732
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
    I caught the last 15 mins on Channel 4 plus 1. Not bad, although they do seem to have forgotten that it pissed down in London on referendum day. Was Cummings's testimony to the Commons word-for-word or edited-for-dramatic-effect?
    It was made up completely, Cummings has never testified after the vote. One of the criticisms of the program.
    He did appear before the Treasury Select Committee but before the vote
    Some heated exchanges with Andrew Tyrie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJjShkGCa4c
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,199

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
    I caught the last 15 mins on Channel 4 plus 1. Not bad, although they do seem to have forgotten that it pissed down in London on referendum day. Was Cummings's testimony to the Commons word-for-word or edited-for-dramatic-effect?
    It was made up completely, Cummings has never testified after the vote. One of the criticisms of the program.
    He did appear before the Treasury Select Committee but before the vote
    Some heated exchanges with Andrew Tyrie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJjShkGCa4c
    Tyrie obviously missed his part in tonight's drama
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Wind turbines generating 44% of UK energy, the highest I've noticed so far.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Damn. Any chance of a precis?
    No spoilers beyond the below, you need to watch the whole thing
    I'm going to have to chew my own food on this :( . Ok I assume there's some sort of Channel 4 catch-up thingy. I'll make notes.
    Cumberbatch was brilliant, watch it for his acting alone if you want to ignore the politics
    I caught the last 15 mins on Channel 4 plus 1. Not bad, although they do seem to have forgotten that it pissed down in London on referendum day. Was Cummings's testimony to the Commons word-for-word or edited-for-dramatic-effect?
    It was made up completely, Cummings has never testified after the vote. One of the criticisms of the program.
    Sad to hear it. We remember dramas, but they inevitably have to twist the facts for dramatic effect. We forget documentaries, but they're often more accurate.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Just decided to take a look at the spreadsheet which correctly predicted how 289 out of 326 districts in England would vote at the EU referendum.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0

    That spreadsheet was the most impressive part of the entire referendum night.
    Thanks Philip. I had no idea whether it would turn out to be reliable beforehand.
  • Excellent production and some great acting.

    You don't have to buy into every single word to accept the central thesis that Leave won because of a superior campaign.

    And a more powerful and convincing argument.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just saw the end . Was it all that bad?

    If you want to know how Leave won you need to watch this programme
    Leave won?!

    You could at least have put up a spoiler alert!
    Wait for the sequel.
    Titled "The Really Uncivil War".
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Just decided to take a look at the spreadsheet which correctly predicted how 289 out of 326 districts in England would vote at the EU referendum.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0

    That spreadsheet was the most impressive part of the entire referendum night.
    Thanks Philip. I had no idea whether it would turn out to be reliable beforehand.
    Perhaps, but it was the best guide available. So well done you.
This discussion has been closed.