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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,163
    edited January 2019
    Happy New Year PB. :)
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686
    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?
  • eekeek Posts: 20,186
    edited January 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    kle4 said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    Theresa who?
    The interim PM.
    :D:D
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    Bungee jumping?

    After doing one of those what could possibly ever be stressful again? :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,081
    Mr. Kinabalu, tried vaping?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    Drink
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    GIN1138 said:

    Happy New Year PB. :)

    Happy New Year GIN
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited January 2019
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes of the minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling. It is heading for the rocks and well deserved.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    You really have lost the plot with brexit. It is just a case of two sets of absolute donkeys talking out of their rear ends.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling. It is heading for the rocks and well deserved.
    Facts never were your strong point.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,367

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    Top trolling by Sadiq.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,308
    edited January 2019

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    I see no meltdown. I just see Mayor Sadiq being a bit of a wanker for the sake of indulging himself; hardly a surprise.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    Better to just go clean cut or maybe patches or something but if you really can't quit and it will significantly shorten the time you have left alive then smoking weed may actually help with this, not only did I always smoke less when I did smoke weed but weed helped me cut right down to the point where I no longer smoke cigarettes but just put a tiny amount of one in with some weed and smoke barely any tobacco. This still involved an effort to do so and I slowly weaned off the tobacco by putting less and less tobacco in a roll up.

    Although I only now that from personal experience and then anecdotal evidence about stoners saying they smoke less when stoned nothing proven medically that I know of. Just maybe worth a shot if a quickly approaching death is the only alternative you see.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,081
    Dr. Foxy/Mr. W, quite. Political leaders might want to spend more time being statesmanlike and less time trolling.

    Just a wild and crazy idea.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,443
    edited January 2019

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes of the minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    You’re arguments are incredibly tortured.

    My support of the Union is one of the (many) reasons I voted Remain. I see no need to weaken the Union for a policy which promises to make us poorer and weaker.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling. It is heading for the rocks and well deserved.
    You are off to a flying start I see....

    HNY Malcolm :D
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,752
    edited January 2019
    Foxy said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    Top trolling by Sadiq.

    At a time when we need to come together it was an unnecessary act of intimidation to brexiteers and even moderate leavers/ remainers. Divisive and not the message that shows any wisdom or desire to heal the country outside the London elite

    It just saddens me that so many politicians cannot see the likely consequences of their actions

    And to be fair Alastair, it was not a few sparklers - it was 8 tons of fireworks on prime time tv
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    GIN1138 said:

    Happy New Year PB. :)

    HNY!

    (I did post one last night, but what the heck.... ) ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686

    Mr. Kinabalu, tried vaping?

    I have. Did not hit the spot, unfortunately.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes of the minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    Your penultimate sentence contradicts your last sentence.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes of the minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    You’re arguments are incredibly tortured.

    My support of the Union is one of the (many) reasons I voted Remain. I see no need to weaken the Union for a policy which promises to make us poorer and weaker.
    Good for you dear boy. I voted Leave so that the laws which govern me were made by MPs I elected and to give our parliament and our economy the chance to benefit by repealing some of the costly and pointless EU laws.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship...
    ...which, if the 2014 referendum is any guide, Scotland is a member of voluntarily... :)

  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    viewcode said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes of the minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    Your penultimate sentence contradicts your last sentence.
    If that’s what you think that’s your privilege. Doesn’t read that way to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,001
    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    I sympathise.
    Giving up cigarettes took me about half a dozen goes. It can be done, and it gets a lot easier after the first fortnight... when you start realises you’re feeling a lot fitter (even if you don’t exercise, you get a uplift of around 20% in blood oxygen capacity by cutting out the carbon monoxide exposure), and the cravings die down.
  • malcolmg said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    You really have lost the plot with brexit. It is just a case of two sets of absolute donkeys talking out of their rear ends.
    The happiest of new years to you Malc. I trust you had a dram or two of the water of life
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686
    malcolmg said:

    Drink

    :-)

    And a fag, I'm afraid.

    Blasted things.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,001
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling...
    Don’t lose the plot, malcolm...
    (ducks)
  • Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling...
    Don’t lose the plot, malcolm...
    (ducks)
    He wont !!!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686

    Bungee jumping?

    After doing one of those what could possibly ever be stressful again? :)

    Great advice. Reckon that might work!

    If only I were not a world class coward.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,889
    edited January 2019
    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    I smoked a pack a day for much of my twenties, found chewing nicorette gum the best way to deal with my nicotine addiction, patches/vaping didn't work for me (though back then nobody really vaped, it was a pretty rare sight - now I understand people actually do it for fun!).

    Good luck kicking the habit!

    On that topic - really interesting article here about how Juul (who just signed up with big tobacco) are getting kids into smoking.

    https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/22/juul-me-twice-shame-on-you/

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930

    ...If that’s what you think that’s your privilege...

    Oh, thank you. I've always wanted one.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,094
    Perhaps we should let London secede from the UK? Then we can impose a blockade. Once the hungry ones have eaten the rest, they'll find there's plenty of housing. Only trying to help.

    But Happy New Year to all the Remainers. I bear them no ill-will, I've been married to one for 43 years.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Foxy said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    Top trolling by Sadiq.

    At a time when we need to come together it was an unnecessary act of intimidation to brexiteers and even moderate leavers/ remainers. Divisive and not the message that shows any wisdom or desire to heal the country outside the London elite

    It just saddens me that so many politicians cannot see the likely consequences of their actions

    And to be fair Alastair, it was not a few sparklers - it was 8 tons of fireworks on prime time tv
    Sadiq Khan is an elected politician. He is entitled to express his view on matters of concern to his constituents. Since fireworks were going to be lit anyway, he did so for free, and very effectively. His message will have been seen around the world.

    The real London elite has spent Christmas telling very elderly long term residents that they are at risk of deportation if they don’t shell out £65 and fill out an application form. I know which I consider more divisive.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling...
    Don’t lose the plot, malcolm...
    (ducks)
    I'm not sure it's wise to call him "ducks"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 18,986
    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Yikes!! I hope she is OK
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Fuck, hope she is okay man.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686

    Better to just go clean cut or maybe patches or something but if you really can't quit and it will significantly shorten the time you have left alive then smoking weed may actually help with this, not only did I always smoke less when I did smoke weed but weed helped me cut right down to the point where I no longer smoke cigarettes but just put a tiny amount of one in with some weed and smoke barely any tobacco. This still involved an effort to do so and I slowly weaned off the tobacco by putting less and less tobacco in a roll up.

    Although I only now that from personal experience and then anecdotal evidence about stoners saying they smoke less when stoned nothing proven medically that I know of. Just maybe worth a shot if a quickly approaching death is the only alternative you see.

    That's interesting. My set-up precludes weed, but yes I can imagine how that could possibly work.

    I'm just going to have to go cold turkey. Got to kick the actual drug, which is nicotine.

    I think if I kind of glamorize the struggle to myself, if I imagine that I'm a famous but tortured musician who has to 'clean up' in order to go back on tour, then that might help.

    Yes, I think it might.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    CD13 said:

    Perhaps we should let London secede from the UK? Then we can impose a blockade. Once the hungry ones have eaten the rest, they'll find there's plenty of housing. Only trying to help.

    But Happy New Year to all the Remainers. I bear them no ill-will, I've been married to one for 43 years.

    London should certainly secede. But why do Leavers immediately think that they should blockade a separate state? Is it some innate imperialism in them?

    I’m not sure what the currently heavily-subsidised regions would live off. Currently they’re essentially a remittance economy. But perhaps it’s time for them to stand on their own two feet.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,094
    Mr owls,

    Very sorry to hear that, it puts politics into perspective. Hope things go well.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Oh goddammit, that's bad. Major sympathies, BJO.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    I hope Mrs BJO recovers from this latest setback quickly.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    I sympathise.
    Giving up cigarettes took me about half a dozen goes. It can be done, and it gets a lot easier after the first fortnight... when you start realises you’re feeling a lot fitter (even if you don’t exercise, you get a uplift of around 20% in blood oxygen capacity by cutting out the carbon monoxide exposure), and the cravings die down.
    My mum beat her smoking by spending a two weeks in Intensive Care / HDU for pneumonia. After they brought her out of the induced coma / sedatives, her body had been leeched of nicotine and all the cravings were gone. She has stayed "clean" ever since.

    It is probably not going to be a popular method of quitting ....
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,094
    Mr Meeks,

    "I’m not sure what the currently heavily-subsidised regions would live off."

    Food. I know you're got a lot of vegans so you won't need much. You can probably grow it in your window boxes.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Very sorry to hear that BJO - wishing you both all the best.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    kinabalu said:

    Better to just go clean cut or maybe patches or something but if you really can't quit and it will significantly shorten the time you have left alive then smoking weed may actually help with this, not only did I always smoke less when I did smoke weed but weed helped me cut right down to the point where I no longer smoke cigarettes but just put a tiny amount of one in with some weed and smoke barely any tobacco. This still involved an effort to do so and I slowly weaned off the tobacco by putting less and less tobacco in a roll up.

    Although I only now that from personal experience and then anecdotal evidence about stoners saying they smoke less when stoned nothing proven medically that I know of. Just maybe worth a shot if a quickly approaching death is the only alternative you see.

    That's interesting. My set-up precludes weed, but yes I can imagine how that could possibly work.

    I'm just going to have to go cold turkey. Got to kick the actual drug, which is nicotine.

    I think if I kind of glamorize the struggle to myself, if I imagine that I'm a famous but tortured musician who has to 'clean up' in order to go back on tour, then that might help.

    Yes, I think it might.
    Cold Turkey would be best, if you could take up exercise and maybe something else to take the edge off. Could do vaping on 0% nicotine because the act of smoking itself is something you miss (or I would) or there are herbal alternatives to tobacco (not weed) taste and smell crappy and they are bad for you (like tobacco) but it isn't addictive so you could pass the nicotine addiction stage whilst still getting to do the smoking action.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930
    kinabalu said:

    A fair amount of health talk, I see. I guess this time of year encourages that.

    Not immune myself. Drink is not my problem (or no longer a problem, I should say, it used to be a big one) but smoking is. The coffin nails. Started at age 11 and the very 1st puff agreed with me. No coughing, no choking, just a lovely warm glow inside and the desire to continue. It was like I was born to smoke.

    Decades later here I am still doing it. No enjoyment now, that went long ago, but utterly hooked, both physically and psychologically.

    It's a bummer. I am now of an age where the expected shortening of my lifespan due to the ghastly habit starts to matter. 12 years off 60 left seems trivial. Nothing to fret about. But 12 off 25? Yikes. Very worrying, and I do. I worry a great deal and constantly. It stresses me out.

    And here's the kicker. It's funny in one sense, and in another is absolutely not. There is one thing, and one thing only, that seems to help me manage this stress.

    Can you guess what it is?

    I'm going to assume you live in England. So

    1) Go to this website and type in your postcode: https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/local-support-services-helplines
    2) Get the details of your local StopSmoking clinic.
    3) Contact them and ask to see somebody (if you need a referral, contact your GP).
    4) Listen to what they say and do it.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445

    CD13 said:

    Perhaps we should let London secede from the UK? Then we can impose a blockade. Once the hungry ones have eaten the rest, they'll find there's plenty of housing. Only trying to help.

    But Happy New Year to all the Remainers. I bear them no ill-will, I've been married to one for 43 years.

    London should certainly secede. But why do Leavers immediately think that they should blockade a separate state? Is it some innate imperialism in them?

    I’m not sure what the currently heavily-subsidised regions would live off. Currently they’re essentially a remittance economy. But perhaps it’s time for them to stand on their own two feet.
    If London didn’t control the purse strings they’d have a better chance.They can chuck £ 2 bn more for Crossrail but still not bother to electrify rail in the North.

    Strange you want to continue to pay billions to the EU but do nothing for your own countrymen.
  • Foxy said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    Top trolling by Sadiq.

    At a time when we need to come together it was an unnecessary act of intimidation to brexiteers and even moderate leavers/ remainers. Divisive and not the message that shows any wisdom or desire to heal the country outside the London elite

    It just saddens me that so many politicians cannot see the likely consequences of their actions

    And to be fair Alastair, it was not a few sparklers - it was 8 tons of fireworks on prime time tv
    Sadiq Khan is an elected politician. He is entitled to express his view on matters of concern to his constituents. Since fireworks were going to be lit anyway, he did so for free, and very effectively. His message will have been seen around the world.

    The real London elite has spent Christmas telling very elderly long term residents that they are at risk of deportation if they don’t shell out £65 and fill out an application form. I know which I consider more divisive.
    Everyone needs common sense and it was a new year celebration from the UK capital representing the whole country. Khan politicised it and it was unnecessary
  • Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    I am so sorry BJO and my wife and I send you and your good lady our love and best wishes at this difficult time
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Best wishes with this.

    My father in law had a non-fatal heart attack in his fifties. He is still going strong at 92.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,378

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Really sorry to hear that. Hope she recovers as quickly as possible.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Foxy said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    Top trolling by Sadiq.

    At a time when we need to come together it was an unnecessary act of intimidation to brexiteers and even moderate leavers/ remainers. Divisive and not the message that shows any wisdom or desire to heal the country outside the London elite

    It just saddens me that so many politicians cannot see the likely consequences of their actions

    And to be fair Alastair, it was not a few sparklers - it was 8 tons of fireworks on prime time tv
    Sadiq Khan is an elected politician. He is entitled to express his view on matters of concern to his constituents. Since fireworks were going to be lit anyway, he did so for free, and very effectively. His message will have been seen around the world.

    The real London elite has spent Christmas telling very elderly long term residents that they are at risk of deportation if they don’t shell out £65 and fill out an application form. I know which I consider more divisive.
    Everyone needs common sense and it was a new year celebration from the UK capital representing the whole country. Khan politicised it and it was unnecessary
    It was just another reminder that London’s mayor is an arch-mediocrity, as has been the case since 2008. Ken was dreadful for obvious reasons, but not for what he did as Mayor.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686
    kyf_100 said:

    I smoked a pack a day for much of my twenties, found chewing nicorette gum the best way to deal with my nicotine addiction, patches/vaping didn't work for me (though back then nobody really vaped, it was a pretty rare sight - now I understand people actually do it for fun!).

    Good luck kicking the habit!

    On that topic - really interesting article here about how Juul (who just signed up with big tobacco) are getting kids into smoking.

    Thank you.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,081
    Mr. Owls, really sorry to hear that. I hope she's ok.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686
    viewcode said:

    I'm going to assume you live in England. So

    1) Go to this website and type in your postcode: https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/local-support-services-helplines
    2) Get the details of your local StopSmoking clinic.
    3) Contact them and ask to see somebody (if you need a referral, contact your GP).
    4) Listen to what they say and do it.

    Thank you.

    Perhaps 2019 is the year.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686
    Nigelb said:

    I sympathise.
    Giving up cigarettes took me about half a dozen goes. It can be done, and it gets a lot easier after the first fortnight... when you start realises you’re feeling a lot fitter (even if you don’t exercise, you get a uplift of around 20% in blood oxygen capacity by cutting out the carbon monoxide exposure), and the cravings die down.

    Ah well I've only tried twice so hope for me yet.

    Wish they would make it illegal to be honest. That would stop me.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling. It is heading for the rocks and well deserved.
    Facts never were your strong point.
    Whilst intellect or reality was never yours
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    RoyalBlue said:

    Foxy said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    Top trolling by Sadiq.

    At a time when we need to come together it was an unnecessary act of intimidation to brexiteers and even moderate leavers/ remainers. Divisive and not the message that shows any wisdom or desire to heal the country outside the London elite

    It just saddens me that so many politicians cannot see the likely consequences of their actions

    And to be fair Alastair, it was not a few sparklers - it was 8 tons of fireworks on prime time tv
    Sadiq Khan is an elected politician. He is entitled to express his view on matters of concern to his constituents. Since fireworks were going to be lit anyway, he did so for free, and very effectively. His message will have been seen around the world.

    The real London elite has spent Christmas telling very elderly long term residents that they are at risk of deportation if they don’t shell out £65 and fill out an application form. I know which I consider more divisive.
    Everyone needs common sense and it was a new year celebration from the UK capital representing the whole country. Khan politicised it and it was unnecessary
    It was just another reminder that London’s mayor is an arch-mediocrity, as has been the case since 2008. Ken was dreadful for obvious reasons, but not for what he did as Mayor.
    This current guy does not even reach donkey status
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,889

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    Wishing you all the best and your wife a speedy recovery BJO.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686

    Cold Turkey would be best, if you could take up exercise and maybe something else to take the edge off. Could do vaping on 0% nicotine because the act of smoking itself is something you miss (or I would) or there are herbal alternatives to tobacco (not weed) taste and smell crappy and they are bad for you (like tobacco) but it isn't addictive so you could pass the nicotine addiction stage whilst still getting to do the smoking action.

    The good news is that I'm good on exercise. I do loads of that.

    Anyway, thanks, let's see if I can step up to the plate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    CD13 said:

    Perhaps we should let London secede from the UK? Then we can impose a blockade. Once the hungry ones have eaten the rest, they'll find there's plenty of housing. Only trying to help.

    But Happy New Year to all the Remainers. I bear them no ill-will, I've been married to one for 43 years.

    London should certainly secede. But why do Leavers immediately think that they should blockade a separate state? Is it some innate imperialism in them?

    I’m not sure what the currently heavily-subsidised regions would live off. Currently they’re essentially a remittance economy. But perhaps it’s time for them to stand on their own two feet.
    If London didn’t control the purse strings they’d have a better chance.They can chuck £ 2 bn more for Crossrail but still not bother to electrify rail in the North.

    Strange you want to continue to pay billions to the EU but do nothing for your own countrymen.
    On this we agree, he is a twat of the first order
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    People who bear the Union no goodwill will certainly use Brexit to try and break up the Union but they’ll use any good excuse to attack the Union. It doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed.

    Moreover, if the Union can only be kept intact by holding the majority hostage to the wishes ofthe minority then it’s not worth preserving.

    True supporters of the Union will promote it and defend it regardless of Brexit.
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling...
    Don’t lose the plot, malcolm...
    (ducks)
    Not a chance Nigel, I was being nice to him
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling...
    Don’t lose the plot, malcolm...
    (ducks)
    He wont !!!
    Evening G, Best wishes for A happy New Year to you and your family, hope it is a great one.
  • kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    I sympathise.
    Giving up cigarettes took me about half a dozen goes. It can be done, and it gets a lot easier after the first fortnight... when you start realises you’re feeling a lot fitter (even if you don’t exercise, you get a uplift of around 20% in blood oxygen capacity by cutting out the carbon monoxide exposure), and the cravings die down.

    Ah well I've only tried twice so hope for me yet.

    Wish they would make it illegal to be honest. That would stop me.
    When my eldest granddaughter was born 15 years ago my daughter told me that if I wanted to be near her I had to stop smoking. It was the kindest advice she ever gave me as I stopped in that moment, went through 3 months of purgatory, but emerged a non smoker and have not touched one since.

    Futhermore my practice nurse recently told me that it may just have saved my life as I developed moderate copd and smoking would have finished me off.

    It is something really worth doing and my only regret is that I ever started in the first place

    Good luck and be persistent

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    edited January 2019
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Drink

    :-)

    And a fag, I'm afraid.

    Blasted things.
    The fags are not good, much worse than the drink.

    PS: But nightmare to get off them
  • malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Well Brexit itself does not necessarily threaten the Union provided a Deal is done.

    However polling in Northern Ireland shows most voters would back a United Ireland if No Deal but the Union if Remain won an EUref2 or a Deal is confirmed with the EU. Similarly some polls in Scotland see Yes get over 50% if No Deal.

    No Deal could well see the UK break up leaving just England and Wales remaining, the latter having both voted Leave unlike Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland

    That's a fantasy. The UK is plenty strong enough to disengage fully with the mechanisms of the EU and remain intact. It has withstood far worse in its time. And if it isn't, there's no point in trying to hold it together with blu tack.
    I am sorry but No Dealers no full well the Union only stays because of the consent of all its components, if they insist on dragging Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland not only out of the EU but out of the Single Market and Customs Union too without even a transition period or trade deal with the EU, Sturgeon will inevitably call indyref2 with a good chance of winning it and if a hard border emerges in Ireland a majority would emerge for a United Ireland.

    The fact most English and Welsh polls show even voters there do not want No Deal shows how fanatical extremist No Dealers are. The Union can be broken up, the economy hit by a severe recession neither matter as long as Brexit is purer than pure
    Silly comment. You assume that Brexit is the only possible cause of either a severe recession or a break up ofthe Union. The events of 2007/8 and 2014 showed this is clearly not the case.

    Brexit,or rather trying to thwart Brexit which the majority of the U.K. voted for, has unhinged your judgement.
    Not quite, HYUFD is stating that the Brexit vote is likely to trigger further changes in the make up of the UK, given that 2 parts of the UK voted differently to the other 2 parts...
    There is no union it is a colonial dictatorship you half witted cretinous moronic dumpling...
    Don’t lose the plot, malcolm...
    (ducks)
    He wont !!!
    Evening G, Best wishes for A happy New Year to you and your family, hope it is a great one.
    Thanks Malc - we just need to keep taking the pills
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    malcolmg said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    You really have lost the plot with brexit. It is just a case of two sets of absolute donkeys talking out of their rear ends.
    The happiest of new years to you Malc. I trust you had a dram or two of the water of life
    Hello G, yes but have been very moderate over Christmas / new Year period. All ythe best to you and your family
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Happy New Year all. I must congratulate the Mayor of London on getting so much bang for his buck last night. His New Year message is getting talked about more than Theresa May’s.

    https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/1080042774060138496?s=21
    The same people who believe Britain would stoically endure major disruption to secure a no-deal Brexit are in meltdown about a few sparklers. It’s glorious.
    You really have lost the plot with brexit. It is just a case of two sets of absolute donkeys talking out of their rear ends.
    The happiest of new years to you Malc. I trust you had a dram or two of the water of life
    Hello G, yes but have been very moderate over Christmas / new Year period. All ythe best to you and your family
    Everything in moderation is a good maxim
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,686

    When my eldest granddaughter was born 15 years ago my daughter told me that if I wanted to be near her I had to stop smoking. It was the kindest advice she ever gave me as I stopped in that moment, went through 3 months of purgatory, but emerged a non smoker and have not touched one since.

    Futhermore my practice nurse recently told me that it may just have saved my life as I developed moderate copd and smoking would have finished me off.

    It is something really worth doing and my only regret is that I ever started in the first place

    Good luck and be persistent.

    So your daughter kind of did make it illegal (for you) in a sense, didn't she.

    Anyway, thank you and here's hoping.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,462
    edited January 2019
    There are more than 30 stars on mayor Khan's EU flag on the Eye.
    Wishful thinking.
  • kinabalu said:

    Better to just go clean cut or maybe patches or something but if you really can't quit and it will significantly shorten the time you have left alive then smoking weed may actually help with this, not only did I always smoke less when I did smoke weed but weed helped me cut right down to the point where I no longer smoke cigarettes but just put a tiny amount of one in with some weed and smoke barely any tobacco. This still involved an effort to do so and I slowly weaned off the tobacco by putting less and less tobacco in a roll up.

    Although I only now that from personal experience and then anecdotal evidence about stoners saying they smoke less when stoned nothing proven medically that I know of. Just maybe worth a shot if a quickly approaching death is the only alternative you see.

    That's interesting. My set-up precludes weed, but yes I can imagine how that could possibly work.

    I'm just going to have to go cold turkey. Got to kick the actual drug, which is nicotine.

    I think if I kind of glamorize the struggle to myself, if I imagine that I'm a famous but tortured musician who has to 'clean up' in order to go back on tour, then that might help.

    Yes, I think it might.
    I smoked for 7 years from the time I started university until I met my wife. The last 4 years of that I was offshore and by the time I decided to quit I was on 80 a day - offshore I was smoking a packet between getting up at 4am and starting shift at 6am.

    The only way I could stop was simply to regard it as an act of pure willpower and stop. About 8pm on December 26th 1990 in the Queen's Head in Newark. I had said I would stop at New Year and then realised how daft that was so stopped then and there. Threw my half a packet of fags in the bin and never smoked another one. I just made a virtue of 'choice'. At all times it was my choice not to smoke. On a number of occasions I had one in my mouth but never lit it. To this day I don't regard myself as an ex-smoker, rather a smoker who chooses not to smoke.

    Framed in those terms it was actually easier than I expected not to smoke. Made a right mess of my diet though.
  • kinabalu said:

    When my eldest granddaughter was born 15 years ago my daughter told me that if I wanted to be near her I had to stop smoking. It was the kindest advice she ever gave me as I stopped in that moment, went through 3 months of purgatory, but emerged a non smoker and have not touched one since.

    Futhermore my practice nurse recently told me that it may just have saved my life as I developed moderate copd and smoking would have finished me off.

    It is something really worth doing and my only regret is that I ever started in the first place

    Good luck and be persistent.

    So your daughter kind of did make it illegal (for you) in a sense, didn't she.

    Anyway, thank you and here's hoping.
    In a sense yes but of course I have 3 more grandchildren since and the thought of smoking near them appals me

    I really cannot express how important it is to stop smoking but also having experienced cold turkey it is a real test of will that needs to be won
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,081
    Mr. W, perhaps Diane Abbott did the counting?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,247
    edited January 2019

    Bad start to the New Year Mrs BJO had a heart attack this Morning.

    Early signs are it wasn't a massive one but will be under observation by the Hospital for at lest a further 24hrs

    Its been all downhill since Tunisian attack FFS

    So very sorry to hear that BJO. Hope she makes a full recovery.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,076
    @bigjohnowls

    Best wishes to you and Mrs Owls.
This discussion has been closed.