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  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Does anyone have any experience of being a Citzens Advice Bureau advisor?

    I'm thinking of volunteering now I have retired - seem like an interesting way to help others and make a small difference.

    I have a relative who does. Rewarding, often eye-opening, real opportunity to help people who basically don’t know their way around The System. She’s done it for years and remains keen.

    On the flipside, I get the impression CAB want it done their way (ie follow the flowchart rather than innovate). Reasonable enough, given the range of skills volunteers have and issues brought to them, but possibly frustrating if you’re used to senior-level problem solving. And as with any such organisation there can be, shall we say, differences of focus - between trustees/paid staff/volunteers and between the local organisations and national HQ. There seems to be a hybrid of national and local support contracts, funding (always tight) and reporting lines which can cause issues - ie local authorities supporting a branch to deal with X while national CAB deals with DWP over Y - which group do they prioritise?

    But despite the relative lengths of my pro and con paragraphs, I’m sure it’s generally a force for much good and volunteering is to be commended.
    I think that is a good summary of how CAB works.

    The flowchart route is to ensure universal standards and any customers problem in my experience is run past senior advice advocates. So the help being offered does usually have a reasonable standard of quality.
  • IanB2 said:


    So which laws specifically have got you so annoyed?

    Much of the environmental policy which has devastated our farmland. I have posted on here often enough about it in the past.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/23/eu-in-state-of-denial-over-destructive-impact-of-farming-on-wildlife

    The fishing policy which means that our Marine Protection Areas are more overfished than the non protected areas.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/20/marine-life-worse-off-inside-protected-areas-analysis-reveals

    Right down to stupid laws like the colour of fire extinguishers which makes them more difficult to identify in an emergency than the old colour system.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Headline article: Polls can say what they like, won't happen.

    Jim Mattis: Just as a note, a number of GOP 'operatives' sought to get him to stand in 2016 as a way of knocking Trump out. And when I say sought, as in had contact with Mattis directly.

    The GOP dissidents people are looking for either a challenger or a spoiler if Trump actually runs again. They will go back to Mattis.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 29,082

    From earlier discussion -

    Found online:

    Kordum: Son or Daughter In Laws Father
    Kordmuni: Son or Daughter In Laws Mother

    https://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/punjabi-kinship-terms-who-are-your-relatives.26627/

    Hence:

    (1) Kords - brightly coloured trousers that you would only tolerate being worn my s relative

    And (2) Korma - inoffensive Fish traditionally cooked when introducing your parents to your parents in law for the first time
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:




    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    As you are such a fan of how the Celtic tiger runs their economy should we copy the real austerity they went through?

    Talk to people from Ireland Foxy - you might be surprised by what you hear.
    I think that there is a good case that the short sharp austerity in Ireland, Iceland, Spain etc is a better way of managing than the long term grinding austerity that the UK chose.
    So you would have supported Osborne taking that approach to the UK economy in 2010 and replicating Howe’s approach in his 1981 budget would you ?
    Yes, and I think that I posted here in that line at the time. I am socially liberal and internationalist in outlook, but dry as dust on financial matters. I hate debt and think it offensive to overspend now and send the bill to our children.
    Well, you can’t have capitalism without credit and therefore without debt, but I too thought Osborne should have taken a much more robust line to the deficit like how did. If you are going to cut, cut deep. The recovery post 1981 was very quick and I think it would have been had Osborne been brave enough to cut hard.
    I don't think the LD would have supported deep cuts., if it had been just a Tory government then maybe deeper cuts would have resulted. Much is made of the Thatcher Government but austerity in 1981 was no more severe than 2011 IIRC. Indeed, the whole program of austerity had ended by now on a comparative time frame whereas we still live in a society where austerity is preferentially pursued by HM Gov.

    I think cutting any deeper would have contributed to more government spending being wasteful by this I mean cancelling contracts and incurring penalty fees for axing a project or investment commitment.


  • There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    O/T Can anyone summarise for me what going on in the US right now re this mooted shutdown?

    Trump is predicatbly blaming the democrats but it doesn't look like the Replican Senate is voting for his $5.7bn Mexican Wall folly atm.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/dec/21/trump-government-shutdown-border-wall-latest-live

    There are last minute talks going on. Pence & reportedly Kushner are representing the White House to get some kind of way to get out of this hole.

    His own party aren't all buying in because they don't feel they can just do as he wants on this.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,296

    Does anyone have any experience of being a Citzens Advice Bureau advisor?

    I'm thinking of volunteering now I have retired - seem like an interesting way to help others and make a small difference.

    I became a CAB adviser in early 2015 and have found it to be a satisfying experience. You can expect to be presented with a wide range of problems - Benefits - Debt - Housing - Consumer Advice - Family & Relationship matters - Employment - Immigration - Legal Advice (Civil and Criminal). The training is pretty good and you could expect to see clients Face to Face as well as receiving telephone calls. The Citizens Advice website is very good.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 29,082

    Does anyone have any experience of being a Citzens Advice Bureau advisor?

    I'm thinking of volunteering now I have retired - seem like an interesting way to help others and make a small difference.

    From memory @OldKingCole
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,035

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Amber Rudd: 'Ghastly' Jean-Claude Juncker should be under investigation for sexual misconduct

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/21/amber-rudd-ghastly-jean-claude-juncker-should-investigation/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 29,082
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
  • There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,035

    Amber Rudd: 'Ghastly' Jean-Claude Juncker should be under investigation for sexual misconduct

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/21/amber-rudd-ghastly-jean-claude-juncker-should-investigation/

    She's outmanoeuvring Hunt and Javid.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,296

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    And maybe Anglia-Wessex-Mercia - Northumbria - and Cornwall.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,035

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.
    English nationalism drove the Brexit vote. Listen to Mrs Duffy:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36373649/gillian-duffy-i-don-t-want-to-be-a-european
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,296

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.

    It could also be argued that Wessex, Anglia & Mercia can impose laws on Northumbria and Yorkshire etc!
  • kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    I always think a fixation on genealogy is somewhat bourgeois. Of course British aristocracy may be somewhat bourgeois.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Amber Rudd: 'Ghastly' Jean-Claude Juncker should be under investigation for sexual misconduct

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/21/amber-rudd-ghastly-jean-claude-juncker-should-investigation/

    She's outmanoeuvring Hunt and Javid.
    Indeed, I think you are right.

    Less than a year until May can be VONC again!
  • Does anyone have any experience of being a Citzens Advice Bureau advisor?

    I'm thinking of volunteering now I have retired - seem like an interesting way to help others and make a small difference.

    I have a relative who does. Rewarding, often eye-opening, real opportunity to help people who basically don’t know their way around The System. She’s done it for years and remains keen.

    On the flipside, I get the impression CAB want it done their way (ie follow the flowchart rather than innovate). Reasonable enough, given the range of skills volunteers have and issues brought to them, but possibly frustrating if you’re used to senior-level problem solving. And as with any such organisation there can be, shall we say, differences of focus - between trustees/paid staff/volunteers and between the local organisations and national HQ. There seems to be a hybrid of national and local support contracts, funding (always tight) and reporting lines which can cause issues - ie local authorities supporting a branch to deal with X while national CAB deals with DWP over Y - which group do they prioritise?

    But despite the relative lengths of my pro and con paragraphs, I’m sure it’s generally a force for much good and volunteering is to be commended.
    I think that is a good summary of how CAB works.

    The flowchart route is to ensure universal standards and any customers problem in my experience is run past senior advice advocates. So the help being offered does usually have a reasonable standard of quality.
    I agree entirely. But I think it’s a worthwhile warning for a former lawyer/management consultant/CEO/headteacher that they’re not entirely there on the basis of their ability to fix the world single-handed :)
  • There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.
    English nationalism drove the Brexit vote. Listen to Mrs Duffy:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36373649/gillian-duffy-i-don-t-want-to-be-a-european
    No it really didn't. No matter how much you might want it to be the case.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,960

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.
    English nationalism drove the Brexit vote. Listen to Mrs Duffy:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36373649/gillian-duffy-i-don-t-want-to-be-a-european
    No it really didn't. No matter how much you might want it to be the case.
    Lots of factors made up the 52%. Some noble aims, some not so noble, some quite dark.
  • justin124 said:

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.

    It could also be argued that Wessex, Anglia & Mercia can impose laws on Northumbria and Yorkshire etc!
    Well since there is no mass movement arguing that case it hardly matters. If they were moved enough to argue for self determination then they should have the right to do so. But since they don't it is a complete straw man argument.
  • Corbyn: Brexit would happen even if Labour won snap election

    When are the cult going to realise his position on brexit...
  • Jonathan said:

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.
    English nationalism drove the Brexit vote. Listen to Mrs Duffy:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36373649/gillian-duffy-i-don-t-want-to-be-a-european
    No it really didn't. No matter how much you might want it to be the case.
    Lots of factors made up the 52%. Some noble aims, some not so noble, some quite dark.
    Which is a very, very long way from the claim that English Nationalism drove the vote.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,960

    Jonathan said:

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.
    English nationalism drove the Brexit vote. Listen to Mrs Duffy:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36373649/gillian-duffy-i-don-t-want-to-be-a-european
    No it really didn't. No matter how much you might want it to be the case.
    Lots of factors made up the 52%. Some noble aims, some not so noble, some quite dark.
    Which is a very, very long way from the claim that English Nationalism drove the vote.
    It did for some. Certainly nationalism. Maybe enough to be the difference between 49% and 52%.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 16,349

    Gatwick has reopened very quickly this time. Suggests to me that the authorities might have nabbed someone or brought the thing down.

    Or there was no drone but the pilot saw something (a bird) that they thought was a drone because everyonr's ben banging on about drones for the last 36 hours.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,010
    Alistair said:

    Gatwick has reopened very quickly this time. Suggests to me that the authorities might have nabbed someone or brought the thing down.

    Or there was no drone but the pilot saw something (a bird) that they thought was a drone because everyonr's ben banging on about drones for the last 36 hours.
    Pundit on Sky just said the drone flew right up to the control tower this evening.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 16,349

    Alistair said:

    Gatwick has reopened very quickly this time. Suggests to me that the authorities might have nabbed someone or brought the thing down.

    Or there was no drone but the pilot saw something (a bird) that they thought was a drone because everyonr's ben banging on about drones for the last 36 hours.
    Pundit on Sky just said the drone flew right up to the control tower this evening.
    It's an owl. Guarantee it.


    Disguised as a drone.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,619

    Does anyone have any experience of being a Citzens Advice Bureau advisor?

    I'm thinking of volunteering now I have retired - seem like an interesting way to help others and make a small difference.

    I have a relative who does. Rewarding, often eye-opening, real opportunity to help people who basically don’t know their way around The System. She’s done it for years and remains keen.

    On the flipside, I get the impression CAB want it done their way (ie follow the flowchart rather than innovate). Reasonable enough, given the range of skills volunteers have and issues brought to them, but possibly frustrating if you’re used to senior-level problem solving. And as with any such organisation there can be, shall we say, differences of focus - between trustees/paid staff/volunteers and between the local organisations and national HQ. There seems to be a hybrid of national and local support contracts, funding (always tight) and reporting lines which can cause issues - ie local authorities supporting a branch to deal with X while national CAB deals with DWP over Y - which group do they prioritise?

    But despite the relative lengths of my pro and con paragraphs, I’m sure it’s generally a force for much good and volunteering is to be commended.
    I think that is a good summary of how CAB works.

    The flowchart route is to ensure universal standards and any customers problem in my experience is run past senior advice advocates. So the help being offered does usually have a reasonable standard of quality.
    I agree entirely. But I think it’s a worthwhile warning for a former lawyer/management consultant/CEO/headteacher that they’re not entirely there on the basis of their ability to fix the world single-handed :)
    This is all great feedback everyone, many thanks, much appreciated!

    I can well understand the need for a standard 'flowchart' by-the-book approach and also the frustration that that approach will engender at times.

    It does feel like I could do something useful though - hopefully I'm not being too arrogant there. Anyway I have applied, so we'll see if they are interested.

    Thanks once again
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973
    This is not news - We know his position

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,070
    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    It's not where you've come from that matters, it's where you are going.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,619
    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    Haha - well said!

    Truly we must all be related to all six of those... not maybe as direct descendants but certainly as nth cousins m times removed.
  • Floater said:

    This is not news - We know his position

    Yes, but many of his supporters don't seem to.
  • Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    Haha - well said!

    Truly we must all be related to all six of those... not maybe as direct descendants but certainly as nth cousins m times removed.
    If I discovered I was a close relative of one of the royals (other than that Meghan lass) I’d be disappointed. I could handle 212th cousin 157 times removed.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 48,490
    Good old Corbs... the absolute boy.
  • Putting things in perspective, the UK has its problems, but at least we're not on the brink of stopping all salary payments to civil servants...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,962
    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    Awfully judgemental again. Now people are not permitted to take pride in knowing their lineage? Speaking as someone who does not know their lineage, how incredibly petty would I have to be to criticise someone for having pride because they do know theirs?

    Perhaps you might let us know are we allowed to be proud because we are distantly related to someone famous, or because we are all descended from proud working class yorkshiremen (and yorshirewomen), or because we have a diverse ethnic background, that our parents did missionary work, or any other things which are nothing to do with us as individuals but are accidents of birth?

    I am truly baffled at such tremendous negativity. Charles can defend himself, but who the hell cares what he takes pride in about his family history? And who is to say is even a point of pride? Maybe it's just an interesting family fact, not for pride or not pride. No it doesn't matter, but that's precisely the point, since it doesn't matter why judge others for it? Oh,a nd your use of 'jesus wept' demeans you.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,986

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    Look on the bright side though. This is the one thing which could winkle him out as leader.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 48,490

    Putting things in perspective, the UK has its problems, but at least we're not on the brink of stopping all salary payments to civil servants...

    A regular occurrence in the US. :p
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,962

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    I thought the policy at conference was that Labour would seek a GE to renegotiate Brexit, and if that failed all options would be on the table. So party policy was not to stop Brexit, it was to not rule our stopping Brexit? Fine distinction perhaps, depending on whether saying it would go ahead now is merely talk, along the lines of 'no deal is better than a bad deal' from May.
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    It's not where you've come from that matters, it's where you are going.
    Very true. Knowing where you've come from is merely interesting, but, no longer, truly a matter of concern. So there's no need to get all 'jesus wept' and judge people for it either. But then whoever said that we should not judge, eh?

    Good night everybody
  • dixiedean said:

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    Look on the bright side though. This is the one thing which could winkle him out as leader.
    Didn't last time.

    It's like the two main parties are both led by the political equivalent of MRSA. Both proving very difficult to shift.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,010

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    'The resolution being circulated'

    So you can't even come up with your own Remoaner resolutions, you have to parrot whatever wibble some bunch of chumps is peddling round to CLPs. We had the same crap ahead of conference, and my previous CLP was pathetic enough to pass the motion.

    Sorry to come across a bit twattish, but this is something that gets me narked.

    Our MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to carry out Brexit. We have 6 tests. If there is a deal that fulfils them then we are duty bound to approve it.
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    Haha - well said!

    Truly we must all be related to all six of those... not maybe as direct descendants but certainly as nth cousins m times removed.
    If I discovered I was a close relative of one of the royals (other than that Meghan lass) I’d be disappointed. I could handle 212th cousin 157 times removed.
    That says more about you than them.

    If I discovered that I would find it an interesting conversation piece for maybe 5 minutes but then life goes on. Wouldn't bother me either way.
  • Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    'The resolution being circulated'

    So you can't even come up with your own Remoaner resolutions, you have to parrot whatever wibble some bunch of chumps is peddling round to CLPs. We had the same crap ahead of conference, and my previous CLP was pathetic enough to pass the motion.

    Sorry to come across a bit twattish, but this is something that gets me narked.

    Our MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to carry out Brexit. We have 6 tests. If there is a deal that fulfils them then we are duty bound to approve it.
    The 6 tests can't be fulfilled and you know it. They're mutually incompatible.

    Remaining in the EU would fail the 6 tests.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,010

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    'The resolution being circulated'

    So you can't even come up with your own Remoaner resolutions, you have to parrot whatever wibble some bunch of chumps is peddling round to CLPs. We had the same crap ahead of conference, and my previous CLP was pathetic enough to pass the motion.

    Sorry to come across a bit twattish, but this is something that gets me narked.

    Our MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to carry out Brexit. We have 6 tests. If there is a deal that fulfils them then we are duty bound to approve it.
    The 6 tests can't be fulfilled and you know it. They're mutually incompatible.

    Remaining in the EU would fail the 6 tests.
    It is quite straightforward. The 6 tests have been passed when Sir Keir Starmer says that they've been passed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 35,146
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Gatwick has reopened very quickly this time. Suggests to me that the authorities might have nabbed someone or brought the thing down.

    Or there was no drone but the pilot saw something (a bird) that they thought was a drone because everyonr's ben banging on about drones for the last 36 hours.
    Pundit on Sky just said the drone flew right up to the control tower this evening.
    It's an owl. Guarantee it.


    Disguised as a drone.
    Anyone used the headline Game of Drones yet?
  • Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    'The resolution being circulated'

    So you can't even come up with your own Remoaner resolutions, you have to parrot whatever wibble some bunch of chumps is peddling round to CLPs. We had the same crap ahead of conference, and my previous CLP was pathetic enough to pass the motion.

    Sorry to come across a bit twattish, but this is something that gets me narked.

    Our MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to carry out Brexit. We have 6 tests. If there is a deal that fulfils them then we are duty bound to approve it.
    And there isn't. May's deal doesntd. Corbyn's proposed "deal" would be laughed at for the 5 minutes his meeting with Barnier would last for.

    The only deal that passes our 6 tests is the deal we currently have.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,745
    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    Awfully judgemental again. Now people are not permitted to take pride in knowing their lineage? Speaking as someone who does not know their lineage, how incredibly petty would I have to be to criticise someone for having pride because they do know theirs?

    Perhaps you might let us know are we allowed to be proud because we are distantly related to someone famous, or because we are all descended from proud working class yorkshiremen (and yorshirewomen), or because we have a diverse ethnic background, that our parents did missionary work, or any other things which are nothing to do with us as individuals but are accidents of birth?

    I am truly baffled at such tremendous negativity. Charles can defend himself, but who the hell cares what he takes pride in about his family history? And who is to say is even a point of pride? Maybe it's just an interesting family fact, not for pride or not pride. No it doesn't matter, but that's precisely the point, since it doesn't matter why judge others for it? Oh,a nd your use of 'jesus wept' demeans you.

    And those four in the “Quadruple Crown” are sufficiently far back that almost everyone of white British descent is probably descended from all four, Just most of us can’t prove it.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,745

    Putting things in perspective, the UK has its problems, but at least we're not on the brink of stopping all salary payments to civil servants...

    Only a quarter, although a pretty vital quarter, including airport security and border patrol. There’s about seven separate bills Congress has to pass each year to authorize and fund various bits of the US govt. Six are done and signed into law. This is the last one.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091



    And there isn't. May's deal doesntd. Corbyn's proposed "deal" would be laughed at for the 5 minutes his meeting with Barnier would last for.

    The only deal that passes our 6 tests is the deal we currently have.

    However, that deal was rejected by the public in 2016, and in my view would most likely still be rejected if people were asked again, especially by the group of people Labour needs to win in order to get an election victory (I still can't get over how some people say on the one hand Corbyn is only interested in "preaching to the choir" and that he should reach out beyond the Labour "true believers" more, yet at the same time criticise him for trying to reach beyond the Labour "true believers" on Brexit).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,010

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    'The resolution being circulated'

    So you can't even come up with your own Remoaner resolutions, you have to parrot whatever wibble some bunch of chumps is peddling round to CLPs. We had the same crap ahead of conference, and my previous CLP was pathetic enough to pass the motion.

    Sorry to come across a bit twattish, but this is something that gets me narked.

    Our MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to carry out Brexit. We have 6 tests. If there is a deal that fulfils them then we are duty bound to approve it.
    And there isn't. May's deal doesntd. Corbyn's proposed "deal" would be laughed at for the 5 minutes his meeting with Barnier would last for.

    The only deal that passes our 6 tests is the deal we currently have.
    We have to exhaust the process. This is how McDonnell described it yesterday. For one thing, we don't want to galvanise the far right.

    If, we can't get the Tories to come up with an acceptable deal, then we try and get a GE. If we can't get a GE then we try and get a referendum.

    Assuming a referendum, what will the question be? If the only Leave options on offer are unacceptable, then and only then should we swing behind Remain as the least worst option (or as some would see it the preferred option).

    I think that is where we will end up. But my preference is still a Labour Brexit.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    'The resolution being circulated'

    So you can't even come up with your own Remoaner resolutions, you have to parrot whatever wibble some bunch of chumps is peddling round to CLPs. We had the same crap ahead of conference, and my previous CLP was pathetic enough to pass the motion.

    Sorry to come across a bit twattish, but this is something that gets me narked.

    Our MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to carry out Brexit. We have 6 tests. If there is a deal that fulfils them then we are duty bound to approve it.
    And there isn't. May's deal doesntd. Corbyn's proposed "deal" would be laughed at for the 5 minutes his meeting with Barnier would last for.

    The only deal that passes our 6 tests is the deal we currently have.
    Yes but they were designed so Labour wouldn't have to support a tory brexit

    Those tests will disappear if its Labours turn to negotiate
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973
    RobD said:

    Good old Corbs... the absolute boy.

    A different type of politics

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973

    Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    Watch out for ice picks mate ;-)

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973

    Floater said:

    This is not news - We know his position

    Yes, but many of his supporters don't seem to.
    Well, this is what happens when you don't pay attention.

    Him and McIRA have a plan and have been telling us where this journey goes if they get a chance.

    Labour supporters can only blame themselves if it comes to pass.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Jesus wept. Being related to someone who happened to be a premium welfare recipient through accident of birth should not be a point of pride (or 4.5 points of pride).
    It's not where you've come from that matters, it's where you are going.
    Well said that man

  • Fucking Corbyn.

    We're about to find out how many members are still in the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma. The majority of members want to stop BREXIT. It's party policy. Passed at conference. And yet Fucking Corbyn thinks he can make it up by himself.

    My CLP this Monday passed the resolution being circulated demanding a special conference in January to re-state policy and hold Fucking Corbyn to it. I proposed the motion, lobbied my fellow Exec Committee members to fast track the emergency neemeet to debate it then formally moved the motion in the meeting.

    If Fucking Corbyn thinks his popularity with the membership nesnzhe can ignore the views of the membership he has another thing coming.

    To quote Danny Dyer: Twat

    What's a nesnzhe? Is it like covfefe?

    Also, isn't an emergency conference in January a bit short notice to organise? Is there really anything that the Labour voluntary party can do in formal terms before the vote in less than 4 weeks? I'd have thought that logistical considerations made it impossible?
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,896
    edited December 2018
    -------------------------------------------
    "In his party conference speech, Corbyn surprised some activists by saying Labour could back the prime minister’s deal if she secured a permanent customs union and offered stronger assurances on workers’ rights and environmental standards.

    He said that offer remains open. “It’s there: at no stage since I made that in October has the government been in touch with us at all.”
    -------------------------------------------


    That's the route for May: ERG + DUP + Labour remainers vote against, Labour frontbench abstains. It's then very tight, and would come down to a group of 50/60ish Tory backbench moderate leavers - she needs about a net +10 from this group to pass.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,477
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rpjs said:

    Mind you the Republic would be so badly damaged by a No Deal Brexit that they couldn't afford to take on the additional burden of Northern Ireland. It really would be a Lose-Lose-Lose-Lose scenario: for the UK, the EU generally, the Republic, and NI.

    True, but for similar reasons to why many Brexiteers feel Brexit is worth any price, a lot of Irish people would have a similar attitude.

    Plus much of the country would qualify for all that lovely Objective 1 EU funding again!
    Who is going to pay that out once the EU loses the U.K. contributions. There is already a budget row between contributor nations and recipient over that.
    Brexiteers should be able to understand that it is not just about money. Voting for a result that makes people poorer is far from impossible.

    Maybe what NI needs is a good dose of the Celtic tiger economy.
    Great - but withthe ROI debt burden, EU regulation increasing and focus on “the project” and a shrinking world economy that seems unlikely.
    The Irish economy is growing rapidly:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-forecast-to-record-highest-gdp-growth-in-europe-this-year-1.3562629?mode=amp

    It is time the subsidy junkies in the North mended their ways.
    Isn’t it mostly down to accounting tricks? Like all those airplanes that are registered in Ireland. Not really adding GDP, but they show up in the books.
    And ironically increase Ireland's contribution to the EU's budget.
    There is a huge investment in new pharmaceutical plants in Ireland. This is real business not just accounting trick

    Thanks to very dubious tax planning

    I first understood it when Eli Lilly, a US corporation, bought Imclone Systems, another US company through its Irish sub. I was curious so I asked a friend of mine on the executive committee.

    The answer was extraordinary and perturbing
    Ireland also homes Intel’s largest chip fab outside of the US, and Intel have been there for 25 years, so it must be fairly long term planning.

    And Shire, for example, move to Ireland a decade ago thanks to UK tax policy under Labour.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 32,667
    Nigelb said:

    Ireland also homes Intel’s largest chip fab outside of the US, and Intel have been there for 25 years, so it must be fairly long term planning.

    And Shire, for example, move to Ireland a decade ago thanks to UK tax policy under Labour.

    Having the fab there also means that Apple, Dell and Lenovo all assemble PCs and laptops in the area...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,477
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ireland also homes Intel’s largest chip fab outside of the US, and Intel have been there for 25 years, so it must be fairly long term planning.

    And Shire, for example, move to Ireland a decade ago thanks to UK tax policy under Labour.

    Having the fab there also means that Apple, Dell and Lenovo all assemble PCs and laptops in the area...
    The tax has something to do with it for them too - and as the recent Apple tax case showed, Ireland sometimes gets to win both ways...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 32,667
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ireland also homes Intel’s largest chip fab outside of the US, and Intel have been there for 25 years, so it must be fairly long term planning.

    And Shire, for example, move to Ireland a decade ago thanks to UK tax policy under Labour.

    Having the fab there also means that Apple, Dell and Lenovo all assemble PCs and laptops in the area...
    The tax has something to do with it for them too - and as the recent Apple tax case showed, Ireland sometimes gets to win both ways...
    Of course: but also remember that an Intel microprocessor depreciates 0.15-0.20% per day. And that is by far the most expensive component in a computer. Saving a week of inventory makes a massive difference.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ireland also homes Intel’s largest chip fab outside of the US, and Intel have been there for 25 years, so it must be fairly long term planning.

    And Shire, for example, move to Ireland a decade ago thanks to UK tax policy under Labour.

    Having the fab there also means that Apple, Dell and Lenovo all assemble PCs and laptops in the area...
    Are you sure Dell assemble PC's and Laptops in Ireland? As I understand it Dell closed all manufacturing in 2009 and moved it to Poland.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    And that is how you deal with some aggressive illegal immigrants.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Y0kel said:

    And that is how you deal with some aggressive illegal immigrants.

    As long as we now prosecute them and send then back home. But knowing our legal system they will be allowed asylum.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 5,482
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I do wish people would stop using the term 're-unification' so horrendously inaccurately.

    Re-unification would mean - and can only mean - the current Republic of Ireland becoming part of the UK once again.

    If, and it's a big if, Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and joins Eire, that would represent *at best* a Unification. Not a Re-Unification. Unless one considers the scant pre-9th century historical records that are extant to be not only accurate but comprehensive. Which would be pretty fucking retarded.

    What are you talking about!

    We rely on the accuracy of those records to prove our descent from Brian Boru!

    🤔
    Are you frequently challenged to prove your descent to 10th century Irish kings? Boy, the (near) aristocracy really are different from the rest of us.
    There’s a game called Quadruple Crown...

    Brian Boru
    David of Scotland
    Llewellyn the Great
    Edward the Confessor

    are each worth 1 point while St Louis and Mark of Kernow are each worth half a point

    We are only on 4.5 (can’t prove Mark).
    Don't forget 2 points for being Mollie Sugden's bridesmaid.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 32,667

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ireland also homes Intel’s largest chip fab outside of the US, and Intel have been there for 25 years, so it must be fairly long term planning.

    And Shire, for example, move to Ireland a decade ago thanks to UK tax policy under Labour.

    Having the fab there also means that Apple, Dell and Lenovo all assemble PCs and laptops in the area...
    Are you sure Dell assemble PC's and Laptops in Ireland? As I understand it Dell closed all manufacturing in 2009 and moved it to Poland.
    The plant is technically a Flextronics one, but (when I was last there) it was close to 100% Dell.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,922
    edited December 2018
    Y0kel said:

    And that is how you deal with some aggressive illegal immigrants.



    They've been detained under the Immigration Act - I assume Piracy is still on the statute books?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 48,490

    Y0kel said:

    And that is how you deal with some aggressive illegal immigrants.



    They've been detained under the Immigration Act - I assume Piracy is still on the statute books?
    the Piracy Act 1837 is still on the statue books.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,296

    justin124 said:

    There is no other organisation I can think of, of which we are a member, that can impose new laws on our country which we do not have the right to veto. Not NATO, not the UN, not the IMF or any other of those organisations often cited as comparable.

    I know you see your country as England, not the UK, so tell me how England can veto a law imposed by the UK parliament?
    Nope. My country currently is the UK. I would just like it to be separate countries if that is what the Scots, Welsh and Irish want. Indeed the start of this conversation was all about how I find it strange for someone to be a Scots Nationalist but pro-EU. For someone living in Scotland who believes in self determination the two questions (and answers) should be exactly the same
    What about what the English, which is what you are, want? Doesn't England have the unilateral right to be a nation state?
    If it wants then yes of course. But the whole system is so weighted towards the English in the UK at the moment that there is little call for it. Certainly nothing like the almost parity in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And the way things are weighted, the English MPs can impose laws on the Scots or Irish. If I were a Scot I would definitely be a Nationalist.

    It could also be argued that Wessex, Anglia & Mercia can impose laws on Northumbria and Yorkshire etc!
    Well since there is no mass movement arguing that case it hardly matters. If they were moved enough to argue for self determination then they should have the right to do so. But since they don't it is a complete straw man argument.
    We have seen a few Yorkshire First candidates in recent years, and ,of course, Merbyon Kernow in Cornwall has been with us for quite some time. I believe some fringe Wessex candidates have also come forward. Whilst I have no wish to see such movements firmly take root, maybe the seeds have been set!
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Putting things in perspective, the UK has its problems, but at least we're not on the brink of stopping all salary payments to civil servants...

    The idea of "government shutdowns" seems entirely ludicrous to me, and suggests a major design flaw of the US constitution.
  • RobD said:

    Y0kel said:

    And that is how you deal with some aggressive illegal immigrants.



    They've been detained under the Immigration Act - I assume Piracy is still on the statute books?
    the Piracy Act 1837 is still on the statue books.
    Looks like it was in territorial waters:

    Since this definition is restricted to the high seas, piracy in British territorial waters would today be treated as robbery, assault or attempted murder under the Territorial Waters Jurisdiction Act 1878, or as hijacking under the Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990 (which can also be applied to piracy on the high seas).

    In 1998 the mandatory death penalty was abolished, and the sentence is now up to life imprisonment.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1837

    The phrase 'pour encourager les autres' springs to mind.....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,973
    Hey Rochdale....

    "In his heart, he wants the Brexit referendum Leave vote to be honoured. For he has held a longtime antipathy towards Brussels — having voted in the 1975 referendum for Britain to pull out of the Common Market.

    In fact, Corbyn is convinced that he cannot achieve his dream of creating a socialist Britain while we belong to the EU.

    Above all, he is keen to avoid a second referendum — despite the Labour Party conference in September passing a motion that backed another referendum if all other options become exhausted."

    Been telling you all this for ages.....


  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,620
    Let's hope this is the end of this. But the potential for copycats/similar groups is very high - all round the globe.

    And you can pass as many laws as you like, it won't stop people who want to cause disruption. The illegality of the act does not work as a deterrence.
  • Let's hope this is the end of this. But the potential for copycats/similar groups is very high - all round the globe.

    And you can pass as many laws as you like, it won't stop people who want to cause disruption. The illegality of the act does not work as a deterrence.
    No, but a couple of five year sentences and unlimited damages might....
  • TMay should call a snap election, see if Labour activists want to go door-to-door out in the cold for Brexit.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,620

    Let's hope this is the end of this. But the potential for copycats/similar groups is very high - all round the globe.

    And you can pass as many laws as you like, it won't stop people who want to cause disruption. The illegality of the act does not work as a deterrence.
    No, but a couple of five year sentences and unlimited damages might....
    A lot will depend on the motivation of those involved in this particular incident. A couple of years in prison might be a price worth paying for them to make whatever point they were seeking to make.

    Some people are happy to play the martyr.

    Legal sanctions will not deter those determined on a particular course of action.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,620

    TMay should call a snap election, see if Labour activists want to go door-to-door out in the cold for Brexit.
    And he still doesn't address the fact that he admits that the EU won't renegotiate the deal whilst at the same time saying that he will negotiate a better deal with people who won't negotiate again on this issue.
  • Let's hope this is the end of this. But the potential for copycats/similar groups is very high - all round the globe.

    And you can pass as many laws as you like, it won't stop people who want to cause disruption. The illegality of the act does not work as a deterrence.
    No, but a couple of five year sentences and unlimited damages might....
    A lot will depend on the motivation of those involved in this particular incident. A couple of years in prison might be a price worth paying for them to make whatever point they were seeking to make.

    Some people are happy to play the martyr.

    Legal sanctions will not deter those determined on a particular course of action.
    Yes, but it might deter copycats...
  • Only if you haven’t been paying attention:

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,381

    Putting things in perspective, the UK has its problems, but at least we're not on the brink of stopping all salary payments to civil servants...

  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    Only if you haven’t been paying attention:

    Interesting that John Harris thinks a route to "remain" is the only way out of the crisis
  • NEW THREAD
  • Did the pollsters pop down to Eire and ask them if they wanted NI to join them?

    NI currently produces about £11bn less in taxes than the government spends there. That is 5% of Eire GDP. Where is that coming from?

    I trust Eire would also be asked to take on an appropriate proportion of the UK national debt with any change.

    Do the politicians in Eire want to add a fourth sizeable block of MPs who will probably hold the balance of power?

    At present many people make a nice living out of exploiting the differences in tax / VAT across the border.

    It might not be as simple as you try to make out!
This discussion has been closed.