I'm only in my mid thirties and I must say it feels strange for so many people to be interested in politics. Older posters - have there been other instances where politics feels as visceral and as mainstream as now? What was it like?
In the 80's we had the Miners' Strike and - God help me - Threads. People don't remember how much Margaret Thatcher was genuinely hated in some areas, and loved in others.
And I haven't even covered the Troubles, a Muslim Iran, Gulf War 1 & 2, the extraordinary change in the roles of women, increased LGTBQ acceptance, etc
Millennials come in for a lot of undeserved flak, but one accurate charge is that they genuinely don't bellyfeel how bad things can get.
Good point, but honestly even all that is nothing compared to the first half of the 20th century when you have two world wars, revolutions galore, the great depression, and Spanish flu.
We live in an extremely peaceful and pleasant era by comparison. Despite the whinging there has genuinely never been a better time to live.
Perhaps you're using a different definition of asset, one I haven't heard before?
I do not expect you to support TM. As I have said before do you ever think you are wrong
No, I just think that your bizarre attachment to Mrs May was inexplicable when she was actually functioning in some capacity. Now she just stumbles from humiliation to failure and back again on a daily basis, achieving nothing but leading us ever closer to no deal disaster, your attachment to her is idiotic and, frankly, regrettable.
Good point, but honestly even all that is nothing compared to the first half of the 20th century when you have two world wars, revolutions galore, the great depression, and Spanish flu.
We live in an extremely peaceful and pleasant era by comparison. Despite the whinging there has genuinely never been a better time to live.
The 20th century was anomolusly brutal even by human standards. The two world wars seem to have put us right off the idea of Proper War.
Perhaps you're using a different definition of asset, one I haven't heard before?
I do not expect you to support TM. As I have said before do you ever think you are wrong
No, I just think that your bizarre attachment to Mrs May was inexplicable when she was actually functioning in some capacity. Now she just stumbles from humiliation to failure and back again on a daily basis, achieving nothing but leading us ever closer to no deal disaster, your attachment to her is idiotic and, frankly, regrettable.
Who do you think you are judging me.
I am too polite to respond in kind but merely refer to the 47% of the Country who look on her favourably
Just off out for a pre-Christmas get-together with our neighbours. Dare I mention the 'B' word?
I have a rule never ever to raise politics unless someone else chooses to. On the same lines I never put political posts on my facebook. (Actually I did once only which was the day after the Brexit vote). I really do find it tiresome to read political posts on FB and keep all my online political discussion for here.
The exact same here. I muted those few Facebook friends who posted incessantly on politics during the election.
Last night I was out for a dinner with a client and contacts. The subject came up. Despite this client being based in one of the less glamorous shires, there was a strikingly confident assumption, without having any particular advance information, by three of those present that everyone else would definitely have voted Remain. And they were right (at least in what people professed to have voted).
I’m intrigued. Which shire and is there a league table of glamour (Staffordshire and Lincolnshire would vie for relegation to the Surrey division one fears)?
There is a complex matrix involving the availability of country suppers or failing that Michelin starred restaurants, golf courses, schools and hunts. I’m afraid I have to be a bit vague on the exact county but it balances mad Conservative MPs with a distressingly high level of manufacturing.
Leicestershire, then. You’re implying Oxfordshire but that’s not even a contender.
Leics has only one starred Michelin restaurant, the entertainingly weird John's House.
We do well on the barking mad Tory MP quotient though.
TM has improved her standing with voters with some 47% viewing her as brave and sticks to her principles. It is the highrst rating since she became PM in 2016
And there is the reason why the consevative poll ratings are holding up
She is a clear asset to the party and the party would struggle if she was replaced
Big G, Mrs May won't be leading the Tories into the next election.
She has now ONE job, to get her deal through Parliament.
How well do you think that's going?
Depends if it is in the next three months
She has a near impossible job but it looks like the voters trusts everyone else a lot less
Mrs May has one job to do. Get her deal through Parliament. A job she is failing at prodigiously. And, since she cannot do her one job, that's a very... nebulous... defintion of "asset" you're using.
Surely an "asset" wouldn't be being humiliated by the EU every time they met An "asset" wouldn't have lost the confidence of over half her backbenchers An "asset" wouldn't have mobilised a nearly 300-strong majority against her in Parliament before running away in terror at the last moment. An "asset" wouldn't have betrayed and alienated the very coalition partners she relies on for a majority An "asset" wouldn't have lied to her party that she could "renegotiate" the withdrawal agreement An "asset" wouldn't been running down the clock to try to blackmail the UK into accepting a deal while she has a gun pointed at the head of the UK economy An "asset" wouldn't have been forced to PROMISE to never, ever lead another Tory election campaign not to get sacked. An "asset" wouldn't have turned the UK so decisively against her deal that three times as many people would rather either remain or crash out into economic chaos than vote for anything she'd negotiated. An "asset" wouldn't be clinging to power by their fingertips, with the overpowering stench of poltitical death hanging about them saying NOTHING HAS CHANGED NOTHING HAS CHANGED like a mentally damaged dalek.
Perhaps you're using a different definition of asset, one I haven't heard before?
I do not expect you to support TM. As I have said before do you ever think you are wrong
@Grabcoque is never wrong. He's just a nonlinear Metatron of the GAYS and Chief Chaos Magician of contrarian Leave voters.
Good point, but honestly even all that is nothing compared to the first half of the 20th century when you have two world wars, revolutions galore, the great depression, and Spanish flu.
We live in an extremely peaceful and pleasant era by comparison. Despite the whinging there has genuinely never been a better time to live.
The 20th century was anomolusly brutal even by human standards. The two world wars seem to have put us right off the idea of Proper War.
Was it Churchill who said it's good war is awful else we'd do it more often?
TM has improved her standing with voters with some 47% viewing her as brave and sticks to her principles. It is the highrst rating since she became PM in 2016
And there is the reason why the consevative poll ratings are holding up
She is a clear asset to the party and the party would struggle if she was replaced
Big G, Mrs May won't be leading the Tories into the next election.
She has now ONE job, to get her deal through Parliament.
How well do you think that's going?
Depends if it is in the next three months
She has a near impossible job but it looks like the voters trusts everyone else a lot less
Mrs May has one job to do. Get her deal through Parliament. A job she is failing at prodigiously. And, since she cannot do her one job, that's a very... nebulous... defintion of "asset" you're using.
Surely an "asset" wouldn't be being humiliated by the EU every time they met An "asset" wouldn't have lost the confidence of over half her backbenchers An "asset" wouldn't have mobilised a nearly 300-strong majority against her in Parliament before running away in terror at the last moment. An "asset" wouldn't have betrayed and alienated the very coalition partners she relies on for a majority An "asset" wouldn't have lied to her party that she could "renegotiate" the withdrawal agreement An "asset" wouldn't been running down the clock to try to blackmail the UK into accepting a deal while she has a gun pointed at the head of the UK economy An "asset" wouldn't have been forced to PROMISE to never, ever lead another Tory election campaign not to get sacked. An "asset" wouldn't have turned the UK so decisively against her deal that three times as many people would rather either remain or crash out into economic chaos than vote for anything she'd negotiated. An "asset" wouldn't be clinging to power by their fingertips, with the overpowering stench of poltitical death hanging about them saying NOTHING HAS CHANGED NOTHING HAS CHANGED like a mentally damaged dalek.
Perhaps you're using a different definition of asset, one I haven't heard before?
I do not expect you to support TM. As I have said before do you ever think you are wrong
@Grabcoque is never wrong. He's just a nonlinear Metatron of the GAYS and Chief Chaos Magician of contrarian Leave voters.
Is that the same as us oldies would say ' he is a know all '
Basically the Tories completely forgot that Ireland existed until about six months after they invoked Article 50, and apparently that counts as some kind of "error".
Basically the Tories completely forgot that Ireland existed until about six months after they invoked Article 50, and apparently that counts as some kind of "error".
If they could have waited a decade or so a reunited Ireland would have saved a lot of hassle.
Just off out for a pre-Christmas get-together with our neighbours. Dare I mention the 'B' word?
I have a rule never ever to raise politics unless someone else chooses to. On the same lines I never put political posts on my facebook. (Actually I did once only which was the day after the Brexit vote). I really do find it tiresome to read political posts on FB and keep all my online political discussion for here.
The exact same here. I muted those few Facebook friends who posted incessantly on politics during the election.
Last night I was out for a dinner with a client and contacts. The subject came up. Despite this client being based in one of the less glamorous shires, there was a strikingly confident assumption, without having any particular advance information, by three of those present that everyone else would definitely have voted Remain. And they were right (at least in what people professed to have voted).
I’m intrigued. Which shire and is there a league table of glamour (Staffordshire and Lincolnshire would vie for relegation to the Surrey division one fears)?
There is a complex matrix involving the availability of country suppers or failing that Michelin starred restaurants, golf courses, schools and hunts. I’m afraid I have to be a bit vague on the exact county but it balances mad Conservative MPs with a distressingly high level of manufacturing.
Leicestershire, then. You’re implying Oxfordshire but that’s not even a contender.
Leics has only one starred Michelin restaurant, the entertainingly weird John's House.
We do well on the barking mad Tory MP quotient though.
Yes I know. Leicester makes the difference on the thieving, dim Labour MP quotient though.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Perhaps more importantly for you though, is that most of the PLP think he's a gobshite too.
They’d rather have a brain dead, Momentum worshipping Corbynista I suppose. Lucky for Streatham that Umunna is still there then.
Corbyn is many things. A joke. A waste of space. A national embarassment. He's not, however, a gobshite. Unlike Umunna, at least he has the decency to believe the drivel he spouts.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Basically the Tories completely forgot that Ireland existed until about six months after they invoked Article 50, and apparently that counts as some kind of "error".
If they could have waited a decade or so a reunited Ireland would have saved a lot of hassle.
The point on serving A50 is that 498 mps authorised TM to serve it
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
I personally wouldn't trust Jeremy Hunt to lead us to economic prosperity.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
He has said that many times. He said it some months ago
Perhaps more importantly for you though, is that most of the PLP think he's a gobshite too.
They’d rather have a brain dead, Momentum worshipping Corbynista I suppose. Lucky for Streatham that Umunna is still there then.
Corbyn is many things. A joke. A waste of space. A national embarassment. He's not, however, a gobshite. Unlike Umunna, at least he has the decency to believe the drivel he spouts.
And your logic for saying that is ? Or is it just vitriolic abuse.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
I personally wouldn't trust Jeremy Hunt to lead us to economic prosperity.
Perhaps more importantly for you though, is that most of the PLP think he's a gobshite too.
They’d rather have a brain dead, Momentum worshipping Corbynista I suppose. Lucky for Streatham that Umunna is still there then.
Corbyn is many things. A joke. A waste of space. A national embarassment. He's not, however, a gobshite. Unlike Umunna, at least he has the decency to believe the drivel he spouts.
Your usage of "gobshite" is unusual. I thought habitually spouting drivel was sufficient to qualify. Agreed with the characterisation of Umunna, though.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
He has said that many times. He said it some months ago
I mean, he was a charlatan a month ago too. Nothing Has Changed.
I still can't believe the Tories would elect a man who both acts and, with his beady little eyes, looks, like a rat.
But hey, it's the Tories. We're well past ascribing sanity to anything they do.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Perhaps more importantly for you though, is that most of the PLP think he's a gobshite too.
They’d rather have a brain dead, Momentum worshipping Corbynista I suppose. Lucky for Streatham that Umunna is still there then.
Corbyn is many things. A joke. A waste of space. A national embarassment. He's not, however, a gobshite. Unlike Umunna, at least he has the decency to believe the drivel he spouts.
I think that's broadly right. Corbyn believes what he says. Where as if necessery PM Umunna would give hectoring speeches in the hemicycle on how the EU needed to set Phasers to Wakanda.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Hear hear. He's another David Cameron, he believes only in self advancement and his own genius. Totally unfit for high political office.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Big G, nothing has changed, to coin a phrase.
There are still way, WAAAY to many variables to truly predict what will happen, but both the numbers and the clock have always been against a 2nd ref, and neither are getting any friendlier.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Hear hear. He's another David Cameron, he believes only in self advancement and his own genius. Totally unfit for high political office.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Hear hear. He's another David Cameron, he believes only in self advancement and his own genius. Totally unfit for high political office.
Yep - been a disaster in every office he’s ever held.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
Labour seems to have 150-200 seats that are absolubtely impervious to any realistic national result. Not even the Tories have this luxury.
The Tories may have 200 seats that are in that category. In 1997 and 2001 it was 165 and 166 respectively, but the boundary changes since then may have given them an extra 30 or 40 seats.
Perhaps you're using a different definition of asset, one I haven't heard before?
I do not expect you to support TM. As I have said before do you ever think you are wrong
No, I just think that your bizarre attachment to Mrs May was inexplicable when she was actually functioning in some capacity. Now she just stumbles from humiliation to failure and back again on a daily basis, achieving nothing but leading us ever closer to no deal disaster, your attachment to her is idiotic and, frankly, regrettable.
No, the valid point here is that Mrs M's performance looks better the less closely you pay attention. This explains the polls.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
It is possible. The BBC are very pro referendum but it does seem as if it is less likely tonight. It will be interesting to see the media pressure on labour now Angela Rayner has so publically refuted one
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Hear hear. He's another David Cameron, he believes only in self advancement and his own genius. Totally unfit for high political office.
Like Boris then
Exactly. The trail of wreckage left by Boris and Dave shows why such arrogant, vacuous chancers should not get the top jobs in politics.
Reads like it was. Leave really didn't take account of Ireland, and nor, to b fair, did Remain. The far right of the Tory Party still believes that the DUP are the Ulster Unionists of the 40's.
Just out:Only 25% of voters thinks Jeremy Corbyn is decisive, according to a survey, down from 31% in October. The Labour leader’s fall to his lowest score at any point since the 2017 general election came despite most voters seeing the Tory party as divided following a week of Brexit infighting. Corbyn also recorded his lowest score for being trustworthy and someone that sticks to his principles, according to an Opinium poll of 2,016 adults online on 13 and 14 December, falling below the prime minister.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
Which is interesting. Suppose the Tories propose a referendum. Labour oppose, or, more likely abstain, on "will of the people" grounds. Bolstering their Leaver credentials. Then support Remain in the vote. Win win. While the Tories split on both issues.
Just catching up on the Federal judge ruling the Affordable Care Act unconstitutional.
A truly astounding twisting of judicial reasoning, in now beats out Shelby County as the worst ruling of the last decade.
The reasoning of the decision goes aginst the judicial philosophy of every Conservative justice on the Supreme Court and will surly be struck down when it gets to SCOTUS unless they are truly are all about legislating from the bench.
Just off out for a pre-Christmas get-together with our neighbours. Dare I mention the 'B' word?
I have a rule never ever to raise politics unless someone else chooses to. On the same lines I never put political posts on my facebook. (Actually I did once only which was the day after the Brexit vote). I really do find it tiresome to read political posts on FB and keep all my online political discussion for here.
The exact same here. I muted those few Facebook friends who posted incessantly on politics during the election.
Last night I was out for a dinner with a client and contacts. The subject came up. Despite this client being based in one of the less glamorous shires, there was a strikingly confident assumption, without having any particular advance information, by three of those present that everyone else would definitely have voted Remain. And they were right (at least in what people professed to have voted).
I’m intrigued. Which shire and is there a league table of glamour (Staffordshire and Lincolnshire would vie for relegation to the Surrey division one fears)?
There is a complex matrix involving the availability of country suppers or failing that Michelin starred restaurants, golf courses, schools and hunts. I’m afraid I have to be a bit vague on the exact county but it balances mad Conservative MPs with a distressingly high level of manufacturing.
Leicestershire, then. You’re implying Oxfordshire but that’s not even a contender.
Leics has only one starred Michelin restaurant, the entertainingly weird John's House.
We do well on the barking mad Tory MP quotient though.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
I don't think they are going to plump for another remainer, however much he says the opposite now. He is also on record as warning about the dangers of hard Brexit.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
It is possible. The BBC are very pro referendum but it does seem as if it is less likely tonight. It will be interesting to see the media pressure on labour now Angela Rayner has so publically refuted one
It is still the only real option though that, as of today, resolves the current parliamentary state of play... and, on that basis, nothing has really changed.....
Just catching up on the Federal judge ruling the Affordable Care Act unconstitutional.
A truly astounding twisting of judicial reasoning, in now beats out Shelby County as the worst ruling of the last decade.
The reasoning of the decision goes aginst the judicial philosophy of every Conservative justice on the Supreme Court and will surly be struck down when it gets to SCOTUS unless they are truly are all about legislating from the bench.
It's not even the worst ruling in the history of ACA litigation - remember that the Supreme Court ruled the individual mandate simultaneously a tax and not a tax.
All a bit tenuous, hinging on one sentence by Angela in the heat of Question Time, plus a tweet from Lord Falconer. I have no iunside information but I don't think anything has changed.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
It is possible. The BBC are very pro referendum but it does seem as if it is less likely tonight. It will be interesting to see the media pressure on labour now Angela Rayner has so publically refuted one
It is still the only real option though that, as of today, resolves the current parliamentary state of play... and, on that basis, nothing has really changed.....
I think the story from labour tonight is a game changer if true. The Independent are suggesting that labour could support the deal to stop a referendum
The impact on labour would be huge but they are going to have to declare their position sooner rather than later
All a bit tenuous, hinging on one sentence by Angela in the heat of Question Time, plus a tweet from Lord Falconer. I have no iunside information but I don't think anything has changed.
It was more than one sentence. I listened to it in astonishment as it was clear and certain labour will not back a referendum
Perhaps you're using a different definition of asset, one I haven't heard before?
I do not expect you to support TM. As I have said before do you ever think you are wrong
No, I just think that your bizarre attachment to Mrs May was inexplicable when she was actually functioning in some capacity. Now she just stumbles from humiliation to failure and back again on a daily basis, achieving nothing but leading us ever closer to no deal disaster, your attachment to her is idiotic and, frankly, regrettable.
No, the valid point here is that Mrs M's performance looks better the less closely you pay attention. This explains the polls.
There is a lot of sympathy for Mays plight, especially amongst women. My wife said how pleased she was that May had seen off the challenge "from all those men". But this is the kind of sympathy that is aroused when a furry animal is being torn apart by hyenas - there is nothing that can be done to prevent it and the victim is probably partly responsible for the dire situation in which it finds itself. People feel sorry for May but this does not mean they think she is doing a good job or that they would vote for the Tories if anelection was called.
Just catching up on the Federal judge ruling the Affordable Care Act unconstitutional.
A truly astounding twisting of judicial reasoning, in now beats out Shelby County as the worst ruling of the last decade.
The reasoning of the decision goes aginst the judicial philosophy of every Conservative justice on the Supreme Court and will surly be struck down when it gets to SCOTUS unless they are truly are all about legislating from the bench.
It's not even the worst ruling in the history of ACA litigation - remember that the Supreme Court ruled the individual mandate simultaneously a tax and not a tax.
The mental contortions over the mandate were tortuous but you could get there.
With this one the entire history and framework around severability have been chucked out the window. If the 2017 Congress zeroed out the mandate that was their intent. They didn't go back in time and change the 2010 congress's intent.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
It is possible. The BBC are very pro referendum but it does seem as if it is less likely tonight. It will be interesting to see the media pressure on labour now Angela Rayner has so publically refuted one
It is still the only real option though that, as of today, resolves the current parliamentary state of play... and, on that basis, nothing has really changed.....
I think the story from labour tonight is a game changer if true. The Independent are suggesting that labour could support the deal to stop a referendum
The impact on labour would be huge but they are going to have to declare their position sooner rather than later
If that's true, it will materially damage a substantial proportion of the Labour party's support base IMHO.... would infuriate many of my Labour voting friends
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
I don't think they are going to plump for another remainer, however much he says the opposite now. He is also on record as warning about the dangers of hard Brexit.
He is also hated by most people who work in the NHS...
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
It is possible. The BBC are very pro referendum but it does seem as if it is less likely tonight. It will be interesting to see the media pressure on labour now Angela Rayner has so publically refuted one
It is still the only real option though that, as of today, resolves the current parliamentary state of play... and, on that basis, nothing has really changed.....
I think the story from labour tonight is a game changer if true. The Independent are suggesting that labour could support the deal to stop a referendum
The impact on labour would be huge but they are going to have to declare their position sooner rather than later
If that's true, it will materially damage a substantial proportion of the Labour party's support base IMHO.... would infuriate many of my Labour voting friends
Angela Rayner's comments on question time are documented and amazed me. The Independent article gives credence to it but I am only the messenger and like you am a bit sceptical but do not see why she made the statement. I can only assume their own polling in leave areas is very anti referendum
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Hear hear. He's another David Cameron, he believes only in self advancement and his own genius. Totally unfit for high political office.
Like Boris then
Exactly. The trail of wreckage left by Boris and Dave shows why such arrogant, vacuous chancers should not get the top jobs in politics.
Hunt in the Telegraph burnishing his hard leave credentials for the coming leadership battle. "UK will 'flourish and prosper' if it walks away from the EU without a deal,"
Hunt is a complete charlatan without principle. He blows with the wind.
Hear hear. He's another David Cameron, he believes only in self advancement and his own genius. Totally unfit for high political office.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
I don't think they are going to plump for another remainer, however much he says the opposite now. He is also on record as warning about the dangers of hard Brexit.
He is also hated by most people who work in the NHS...
Sure is judging by what goes on in my family. I’ve got 9 NHS workers in my family and my sisters, In 2015 8 voted Tory and I LibDem. In 2017, 5 voted Labour, 3 voted LIbDem and 1 voted Tory. Next election, I reckon 8 Labour and I no vote - all thanks to Hunt.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
It is possible. The BBC are very pro referendum but it does seem as if it is less likely tonight. It will be interesting to see the media pressure on labour now Angela Rayner has so publically refuted one
It is still the only real option though that, as of today, resolves the current parliamentary state of play... and, on that basis, nothing has really changed.....
I think the story from labour tonight is a game changer if true. The Independent are suggesting that labour could support the deal to stop a referendum
The impact on labour would be huge but they are going to have to declare their position sooner rather than later
If that's true, it will materially damage a substantial proportion of the Labour party's support base IMHO.... would infuriate many of my Labour voting friends
Angela Rayner's comments on question time are documented and amazed me. The Independent article gives credence to it but I am only the messenger and like you am a bit sceptical but do not see why she made the statement. I can only assume their own polling in leave areas is very anti referendum
My guess? They've seen a bit too pro remain in the past few weeks so the party is counterbalancing with more leave friendly rumours, so they don't appear to have been committed
Starmer would surely quit if remain were taken off the table.
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
I don't think they are going to plump for another remainer, however much he says the opposite now. He is also on record as warning about the dangers of hard Brexit.
He is also hated by most people who work in the NHS...
Sure is judging by what goes on in my family. I’ve got 9 NHS workers in my family and my sisters, In 2015 8 voted Tory and I LibDem. In 2017, 5 voted Labour, 3 voted LIbDem and 1 voted Tory. Next election, I reckon 8 Labour and I no vote - all thanks to Hunt.
Dr Foxy has said he was not the worst health secretary we've had, though I don't doubt you are right nevertheless.
Of course he (I believe he's some sort of sleb or other) may be an ironist rather than a fuckwit.
Some surprising people favour no deal due to not in spite of it's negative impact, from leavers who think it ensures the cleanest break to rejoiners who think it will hasten that end .
The Commons could back a Brexit referendum, but could Theresa May? I'm figuring she couldn't, and that betting on her leaving Number Ten before 1 April is similar to betting on a referendum.
It looks as if things are moving away from a referendum. TM has always been opposed but tonight labour are moving away as well and Hunt repeating his previous comments that we would flourish if we walked away
Hunt may be offering himself as a replacement non-ERGer poster boy for the ERG instead of Boris. Listening to BBC radio today I got the impression they were talking up the possibility of a referendum almost to the level of inevitability.
I don't think they are going to plump for another remainer, however much he says the opposite now. He is also on record as warning about the dangers of hard Brexit.
He is also hated by most people who work in the NHS...
Sure is judging by what goes on in my family. I’ve got 9 NHS workers in my family and my sisters, In 2015 8 voted Tory and I LibDem. In 2017, 5 voted Labour, 3 voted LIbDem and 1 voted Tory. Next election, I reckon 8 Labour and I no vote - all thanks to Hunt.
Dr Foxy has said he was not the worst health secretary we've had, though I don't doubt you are right nevertheless.
Takes a lot to be worse than Lansley or Burnham but Hunt succeeded with flying colours. Junior doctors will never forgive him.
Hunt is an absolute idiot. This is why, whatever you think of his politics, you have to admire someone like Ken Clarke, who is conviction led and sticks to his views. Could have easily been Tory leader and PM if he dialled back or hidden his pro-EU views
All a bit tenuous, hinging on one sentence by Angela in the heat of Question Time, plus a tweet from Lord Falconer. I have no iunside information but I don't think anything has changed.
No. The overwhelming majority of Labour Party members favour a new referendum. The momentum, and Momentum, behind this is very strong and a throwaway remark on question time makes little difference. The believe that Brexit can be stopped is growing, and will continue to grow.
If all the media rumours are to be believed, leading Tories are warming to a referendum just as leading Labour goes cold. Perhaps Labour only wanted to back the idea if it never came to pass. There is still nevertheless close to a majority in Parliament for it, particularly if it has some sort of cabinet backing.
Just off out for a pre-Christmas get-together with our neighbours. Dare I mention the 'B' word?
I have a rule never ever to raise politics unless someone else chooses to. On the same lines I never put political posts on my facebook. (Actually I did once only which was the day after the Brexit vote). I really do find it tiresome to read political posts on FB and keep all my online political discussion for here.
The exact same here. I muted those few Facebook friends who posted incessantly on politics during the election.
Last night I was out for a dinner with a client and contacts. The subject came up. Despite this client being based in one of the less glamorous shires, there was a strikingly confident assumption, without having any particular advance information, by three of those present that everyone else would definitely have voted Remain. And they were right (at least in what people professed to have voted).
I’m intrigued. Which shire and is there a league table of glamour (Staffordshire and Lincolnshire would vie for relegation to the Surrey division one fears)?
There is a complex matrix involving the availability of country suppers or failing that Michelin starred restaurants, golf courses, schools and hunts. I’m afraid I have to be a bit vague on the exact county but it balances mad Conservative MPs with a distressingly high level of manufacturing.
Leicestershire, then. You’re implying Oxfordshire but that’s not even a contender.
Leics has only one starred Michelin restaurant, the entertainingly weird John's House.
We do well on the barking mad Tory MP quotient though.
Hambleton Hall is, or was, in Leicestershire. Seem to remember it having a Michelin star.
Just off out for a pre-Christmas get-together with our neighbours. Dare I mention the 'B' word?
I have a rule never ever to raise politics unless someone else chooses to. On the same lines I never put political posts on my facebook. (Actually I did once only which was the day after the Brexit vote). I really do find it tiresome to read political posts on FB and keep all my online political discussion for here.
The exact same here. I muted those few Facebook friends who posted incessantly on politics during the election.
Last night I was out for a dinner with a client and contacts. The subject came up. Despite this client being based in one of the less glamorous shires, there was a strikingly confident assumption, without having any particular advance information, by three of those present that everyone else would definitely have voted Remain. And they were right (at least in what people professed to have voted).
I’m intrigued. Which shire and is there a league table of glamour (Staffordshire and Lincolnshire would vie for relegation to the Surrey division one fears)?
There is a complex matrix involving the availability of country suppers or failing that Michelin starred restaurants, golf courses, schools and hunts. I’m afraid I have to be a bit vague on the exact county but it balances mad Conservative MPs with a distressingly high level of manufacturing.
Leicestershire, then. You’re implying Oxfordshire but that’s not even a contender.
Leics has only one starred Michelin restaurant, the entertainingly weird John's House.
We do well on the barking mad Tory MP quotient though.
Hambleton Hall is, or was, in Leicestershire. Seem to remember it having a Michelin star.
We're trying to work out the safest way to visit the family in Ireland for Easter. Worst-case scenario no flights, so then it's a question of ferry routes.
Scotland to Northern Ireland has the benefit of being intra-UK, but then we have to go through [the riots in] Belfast, or the long way round to another border crossing and then across the border somewhere quiet, with luck. The wife is not enamoured of this option.
So that leaves the Wales to Ireland routes. I think from a regulatory point of view these are more likely to be running than the planes, but I'm wondering whether the Irish Ferries ships will have been redeployed to run to France to break the British blockade. Stena Line then? They're based in Sweden, so they could also be part of the EU relief effort for Ireland.
To top it all I have to remember to stock up on pistachio nuts so that I can try a new idea for Simnel cake this year.
Comments
We live in an extremely peaceful and pleasant era by comparison. Despite the whinging there has genuinely never been a better time to live.
I am too polite to respond in kind but merely refer to the 47% of the Country who look on her favourably
We do well on the barking mad Tory MP quotient though.
Not surprising his Labour colleagues are having none of it.
Man's a gobshite.
1) Theresa May is useless.
2) Brexit is hard
Therefore, Theresa May will fuck up Brexit royally. QED.
TELL ME I'M WRONG.
'How Ireland Outmaneuvered Britain on Brexit
Irish diplomats set the terms of the Brexit talks long before the British caught on. Here’s how they pulled it off.'
https://tinyurl.com/y8zo2rg2
Which he is.
Perhaps more importantly for you though, is that most of the PLP think he's a gobshite too.
I still can't believe the Tories would elect a man who both acts and, with his beady little eyes, looks, like a rat.
But hey, it's the Tories. We're well past ascribing sanity to anything they do.
There are still way, WAAAY to many variables to truly predict what will happen, but both the numbers and the clock have always been against a 2nd ref, and neither are getting any friendlier.
Win win.
While the Tories split on both issues.
A truly astounding twisting of judicial reasoning, in now beats out Shelby County as the worst ruling of the last decade.
The reasoning of the decision goes aginst the judicial philosophy of every Conservative justice on the Supreme Court and will surly be struck down when it gets to SCOTUS unless they are truly are all about legislating from the bench.
Chelsea fans took flag with SS death’s head to Budapest for Vidi game
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/15/chelsea-fans-flag-ss-deaths-head-budapest
The impact on labour would be huge but they are going to have to declare their position sooner rather than later
With this one the entire history and framework around severability have been chucked out the window. If the 2017 Congress zeroed out the mandate that was their intent. They didn't go back in time and change the 2010 congress's intent.
https://twitter.com/antmiddleton/status/1073661776724680704
Of course he (I believe he's some sort of sleb or other) may be an ironist rather than a fuckwit.
Starmer would surely quit if remain were taken off the table.
TM attacks Tony Blair for insulting the Office of Prime Minister by interfering in the brexit process
Doesn't look as if she is going to support a referendum
Trumpton IS Biff Tannen. Someone needs to go back 50 years and steal his book.
TB is the best communicator in modern politics. May is one of the worst.
I must have been mistaken.
Scotland to Northern Ireland has the benefit of being intra-UK, but then we have to go through [the riots in] Belfast, or the long way round to another border crossing and then across the border somewhere quiet, with luck. The wife is not enamoured of this option.
So that leaves the Wales to Ireland routes. I think from a regulatory point of view these are more likely to be running than the planes, but I'm wondering whether the Irish Ferries ships will have been redeployed to run to France to break the British blockade. Stena Line then? They're based in Sweden, so they could also be part of the EU relief effort for Ireland.
To top it all I have to remember to stock up on pistachio nuts so that I can try a new idea for Simnel cake this year.