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  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mildly amused a post in which I flagged up a potential hedge for anyone who had backed under 200 MPs supporting May's deal in the vote has been considered off-topic by someone. Assume that's fat finger syndrome.

    A spot of Twitter chuntering I saw earlier today suggested that Mercedes may have made an initial misstep with the 2019 engine, but might just be silly season nonsense.

    A betting post? Na, that’s as off topic as it gets.

    Does anyone even use the off topic button? Is this the modern manifestation of the nonexistent ignore button that some PB snowflakes used to claim to use in days of yore?
    Mainly fat finger stndrome. As for ignore, it wasn’t a button, rather a browser extension.
    Oh dear – that some people would go to such lengths on an anonymous internet forum is depressing!
    Never used it myself, but you yourself have pointed out that some posters can be rather tedious.

    I was hoping for an extension that highlighted all references to AV and pineapple pizza, since that’s mainly why I’m here. :D
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389


    Do you believe pupils in private schools are inherently more able?

    If not, then forcing Oxbridge and others to accept only 7% of their intake from the private sector would be fair.

    No I believe the standard of teaching is generally (although obviously not always) better and things like smaller class sizes and better paid teachers make a huge difference.

    The point is that you are trying to deal with the issue by getting universities to pick less academically suitable students rather than dealing with the issue of lack of mobility in the general education system. It is one reason why I prefer the grammar school system.

    By the time Oxbridge are looking at which students to pick it is already too late. You need to address this problem much earlier.
    The whole idea is absurd. You might just as well say that only 30% of A Level passes will be allocated to middle class children, or only 30% of places in law and medical schools will go to them, regardless of their academic scores.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1071058178367021056

    At the moment, my bet on the 11 December vote passing is looking heroically optimistic. The bet on a second referendum before the end of 2019 is looking a bit more promising.

    You’re going to win both.
    You think it’ll pass on the first attempt?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
  • malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
  • I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
  • Mr. Glenn, not sure I see how that would work. If the deal gets passed, why would there be a second referendum?

    Mr. Punter, I had equal stakes, so overall may still end up green. If there's under 200 MPs backing the deal I'll make a little there too.
  • malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    https://twitter.com/ManusBlessing/status/1070945448540758017
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    edited December 2018

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    I can remember when we were both in Hertsmere Conservatives when she would criticise the rest of us for our reactionary opinions.

    Too many people treat politics as a pissing contest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    That's before we get on to the question of nearby friendly nations in a no deal Brexit scenario...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
  • RobD said:

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1071058178367021056

    At the moment, my bet on the 11 December vote passing is looking heroically optimistic. The bet on a second referendum before the end of 2019 is looking a bit more promising.

    You’re going to win both.
    You think it’ll pass on the first attempt?
    Will they change the law that we leave on March 29th 2019?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    So in summary.

    EU threats to UK = good

    Uk threats to EU = bad



  • RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mildly amused a post in which I flagged up a potential hedge for anyone who had backed under 200 MPs supporting May's deal in the vote has been considered off-topic by someone. Assume that's fat finger syndrome.

    A spot of Twitter chuntering I saw earlier today suggested that Mercedes may have made an initial misstep with the 2019 engine, but might just be silly season nonsense.

    A betting post? Na, that’s as off topic as it gets.

    Does anyone even use the off topic button? Is this the modern manifestation of the nonexistent ignore button that some PB snowflakes used to claim to use in days of yore?
    Mainly fat finger stndrome. As for ignore, it wasn’t a button, rather a browser extension.
    Oh dear – that some people would go to such lengths on an anonymous internet forum is depressing!
    Never used it myself, but you yourself have pointed out that some posters can be rather tedious.

    I was hoping for an extension that highlighted all references to AV and pineapple pizza, since that’s mainly why I’m here. :D
    You are an intellectual then eh.
  • Looks like Friedrich Merz might beat AKK in Germany. Certainly v close
  • Pro-Brexit government aides have told Theresa May they are planning a series of resignations on Tuesday unless there are major changes to her deal, the Guardian has learned.

    Mike Wood, the parliamentary private secretary (PPS) to the trade secretary, Liam Fox, said he would quit his post and join leave-supporting backbenchers unless changes were made to the backstop.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/government-aides-tell-may-they-plan-to-quit-over-her-brexit-deal-mike-wood?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
  • RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    Medicines travel both ways across the border as well. People on the Continent get ill too.
  • Sean_F said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    I can remember when we were both in Hertsmere Conservatives when she would criticise the rest of us for our reactionary opinions.

    Too many people treat politics as a pissing contest.
    I know someone who knew John Bercow in his younger days, says the transformation is mind blowing.

    Although he's still a pompous prick.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    That's before we get on to the question of nearby friendly nations in a no deal Brexit scenario...
    USA and Ukraine?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    Medicines travel both ways across the border as well. People on the Continent get ill too.
    Yep, both parties are affected but when you are in negotiation, you sometimes have to remind the other side what the consequences are for their side of particular outcomes.
  • Mr. Evershed, there was a segment on the BBC News at Ten a few nights ago indicating the UK imported something like £18bn of medicine and exported about £12bn to the EU.

    No agreement whatsoever is in nobody's interest.
  • RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    We're the ones who voted for this.

    Like thick as mince Dominic Raab who doesn't know how close Dover is to France.

    The EU have said they'll do their best to ensure a supply of meds and food to the UK but the hold up will be on the UK end.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    TGOHF said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    So in summary.

    EU threats to UK = good

    Uk threats to EU = bad



    There’s a distinction between using something as leverage, as she is cited as suggesting, and stating consequences in order to prepare for them. The former suggests a threat to make the problem as bad as possible if we don’t get what we want, the latter simply reflects the fact that reality tends to have an anti-Brexit bias.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    Well, yes in a modern economy people like to eat stuff that isn't necessarily grown locally to them. Ireland is a net food exporter though, is it not? The UK isn't.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited December 2018

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    They'll export plenty too though.

    If it really came to a battle of food autarky then the outcome would be different to previous centuries.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Pro-Brexit government aides have told Theresa May they are planning a series of resignations on Tuesday unless there are major changes to her deal, the Guardian has learned.

    Mike Wood, the parliamentary private secretary (PPS) to the trade secretary, Liam Fox, said he would quit his post and join leave-supporting backbenchers unless changes were made to the backstop.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/government-aides-tell-may-they-plan-to-quit-over-her-brexit-deal-mike-wood?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Well. That should finally make her think again.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Polruan said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    TGOHF said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    So in summary.

    EU threats to UK = good

    Uk threats to EU = bad



    There’s a distinction between using something as leverage, as she is cited as suggesting, and stating consequences in order to prepare for them. The former suggests a threat to make the problem as bad as possible if we don’t get what we want, the latter simply reflects the fact that reality tends to have an anti-Brexit bias.
    So you!can’t state potential consequences if you want someone to change their mind?
  • malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    https://twitter.com/ManusBlessing/status/1070945448540758017
    Some food for Ireland currently comes through Dover and then across to Holyhead or Fishguard to Ireland - so two friction borders.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Polruan said:

    Pro-Brexit government aides have told Theresa May they are planning a series of resignations on Tuesday unless there are major changes to her deal, the Guardian has learned.

    Mike Wood, the parliamentary private secretary (PPS) to the trade secretary, Liam Fox, said he would quit his post and join leave-supporting backbenchers unless changes were made to the backstop.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/government-aides-tell-may-they-plan-to-quit-over-her-brexit-deal-mike-wood?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Well. That should finally make her think again.
    This is crazy grandstanding, the backstop can't bloody well be changed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    Sean_F said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    I can remember when we were both in Hertsmere Conservatives when she would criticise the rest of us for our reactionary opinions.

    Too many people treat politics as a pissing contest.
    I know someone who knew John Bercow in his younger days, says the transformation is mind blowing.

    Although he's still a pompous prick.
    I knew John Bercow in his younger days. And, you're right.
  • El_SidEl_Sid Posts: 145

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    Imported stuff tends to be higher value per kg/calories - so eg avocados and mangos are more expensive than spuds and turnips.
  • RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    TGOHF said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    So in summary.

    EU threats to UK = good

    Uk threats to EU = bad



    There’s a distinction between using something as leverage, as she is cited as suggesting, and stating consequences in order to prepare for them. The former suggests a threat to make the problem as bad as possible if we don’t get what we want, the latter simply reflects the fact that reality tends to have an anti-Brexit bias.
    So you!can’t state potential consequences if you want someone to change their mind?
    There's a difference between saying

    'You're getting too close to the ledge, you might fall off'

    and

    'I'm going to push you off'
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    TGOHF said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    So in summary.

    EU threats to UK = good

    Uk threats to EU = bad



    There’s a distinction between using something as leverage, as she is cited as suggesting, and stating consequences in order to prepare for them. The former suggests a threat to make the problem as bad as possible if we don’t get what we want, the latter simply reflects the fact that reality tends to have an anti-Brexit bias.
    So you!can’t state potential consequences if you want someone to change their mind?
    I wouldn’t immediately read ‘use x as leverage in negotiations’ as being the same as ‘state that x is one of the potential consequences of one’s negotiating partner’s position’ - do you think they are the same thing in this particular case?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    We're the ones who voted for this.

    Like thick as mince Dominic Raab who doesn't know how close Dover is to France.

    The EU have said they'll do their best to ensure a supply of meds and food to the UK but the hold up will be on the UK end.
    But it’s the EU which insisted on a deal that is unpalatable, and those are the consequences of that deal not passing.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited December 2018

    Mr. Evershed, also, higher intelligence has a high comorbidity with psychological conditions.


    As shown by PB posters?
  • People's Vote = Remain/Leave? With no more understanding than in 2016 of what Leave means?

    We can't have a full undrstanding of what Remain means either looking 5 or 10 years ahead, unless you believe Clegg that there would be no change.
    For the time being, the differing visions of Leave are a lot more different from each other than different version of Remain.
  • rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    Well, yes in a modern economy people like to eat stuff that isn't necessarily grown locally to them. Ireland is a net food exporter though, is it not? The UK isn't.
    Okay this is just weird (and completely off topic).

    I went looking for the import/export numbers for Irish foodstuffs and found this:

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-exports/

    Apparently Ireland's most valuable export product in 2017 was.... blood fractions. Worth $19.9 billion
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    TGOHF said:

    I'll say it again, some Leavers are mentally ill.

    This cancer of British Euroscepticism needs to be removed.

    Using food as a deliberate weapon to starve people is a war crime.

    Lock her up. LOCK HER UP.
    So in summary.

    EU threats to UK = good

    Uk threats to EU = bad



    There’s a distinction between using something as leverage, as she is cited as suggesting, and stating consequences in order to prepare for them. The former suggests a threat to make the problem as bad as possible if we don’t get what we want, the latter simply reflects the fact that reality tends to have an anti-Brexit bias.
    So you!can’t state potential consequences if you want someone to change their mind?
    There's a difference between saying

    'You're getting too close to the ledge, you might fall off'

    and

    'I'm going to push you off'
    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504

    Mr. Evershed, there was a segment on the BBC News at Ten a few nights ago indicating the UK imported something like £18bn of medicine and exported about £12bn to the EU.

    No agreement whatsoever is in nobody's interest.

    Very little of this since the calling of the referendum has actually been in anyone's interest. Let alone since the referendum.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Pulpstar said:

    Polruan said:

    Pro-Brexit government aides have told Theresa May they are planning a series of resignations on Tuesday unless there are major changes to her deal, the Guardian has learned.

    Mike Wood, the parliamentary private secretary (PPS) to the trade secretary, Liam Fox, said he would quit his post and join leave-supporting backbenchers unless changes were made to the backstop.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/government-aides-tell-may-they-plan-to-quit-over-her-brexit-deal-mike-wood?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Well. That should finally make her think again.
    This is crazy grandstanding, the backstop can't bloody well be changed.
    Even at the cost of losing LIAM FOX’S PPS? Nothing is sacrosanct, it seems.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    They'll export plenty too though.

    If it really came to a battle of food autarky then the outcome would be different to previous centuries.
    Oh I agree. Like I say I am not condoning Patel.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,290
    edited December 2018

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    https://twitter.com/ManusBlessing/status/1070945448540758017
    The thought that trying to use it as an 'incentive' is anything but imbecilic is indeed exclusive. To Patel.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited December 2018
    El_Sid said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    Imported stuff tends to be higher value per kg/calories - so eg avocados and mangos are more expensive than spuds and turnips.
    My point is in a no deal Brexit scenario, Ireland is going to be waaaaaaaaaay more food secure than us.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    We're the ones who voted for this.

    Like thick as mince Dominic Raab who doesn't know how close Dover is to France.

    The EU have said they'll do their best to ensure a supply of meds and food to the UK but the hold up will be on the UK end.
    But it’s the EU which insisted on a deal that is unpalatable, and those are the consequences of that deal not passing.
    We voted to Leave knowing No Deal is a consequence.

    The EU came up with a deal that avoids all of this, a deal that acceptable to our Prime Minister and leading Leavers like Michael Gove.

    If we reject then this is on your head not mine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    We're the ones who voted for this.

    Like thick as mince Dominic Raab who doesn't know how close Dover is to France.

    The EU have said they'll do their best to ensure a supply of meds and food to the UK but the hold up will be on the UK end.
    But it’s the EU which insisted on a deal that is unpalatable, and those are the consequences of that deal not passing.
    We voted to Leave knowing No Deal is a consequence.

    The EU came up with a deal that avoids all of this, a deal that acceptable to our Prime Minister and leading Leavers like Michael Gove.

    If we reject then this is on your head not mine.
    I’m totally behind the current deal!
  • Scott_P said:
    I would rather watch BBC Parliament of an empty chamber than that
  • RobD said:


    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.

    It is Patel's inference that she wants to push Ireland off.
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    It's fine for the EU to make these threats, encouraged even, all because we deserve it for voting to leave. But if we try and do anything similar then it's absolutely outrageous.

    That's the mindset of the EU supporters unfortunately.
  • Well done Priti Patel, I didn't think you'd ever be able to top your idiotic support for the death penalty, but you've managed it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    A No Deal Brexit would be very damaging for Ireland, but as I've pointed out before, it's cold comfort to damage others if you're being damaged in turn.

    We have a route forward which avoids such damage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:


    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.

    It is Patel's inference that she wants to push Ireland off.
    I read it as reminding them of what will happen if this thing doesn’t pass.
  • To be fair to Ms Patel, her actual words as quoted by the newspaper which ran this story were:

    “This paper [a UK government report] appears to show the government were well aware Ireland will face significant issues in a no-deal scenario. Why hasn’t this point been pressed home during negotiations? There is still time to go back to Brussels and get a better deal.”

    That's not a threat, it's a statement of the obvious point that No Deal is unthinkable for both sides.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Xenon said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    It's fine for the EU to make these threats, encouraged even, all because we deserve it for voting to leave. But if we try and do anything similar then it's absolutely outrageous.

    That's the mindset of the EU supporters unfortunately.
    I’m not sure that the refusal of the Eu to change the rules of the EU to mitigate the consequences of us ceasing to be members of the EU counts as a threat, but perhaps I’m missing something.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    Well, yes in a modern economy people like to eat stuff that isn't necessarily grown locally to them. Ireland is a net food exporter though, is it not? The UK isn't.
    Okay this is just weird (and completely off topic).

    I went looking for the import/export numbers for Irish foodstuffs and found this:

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-exports/

    Apparently Ireland's most valuable export product in 2017 was.... blood fractions. Worth $19.9 billion
    Aren't biologic drugs - a subsection of pharmaceuticals - included in that? (I could be wrong, but Ireland is a centre of pharmaceutical manufacture, so it makes sense.)

  • Mr. Evershed, also, higher intelligence has a high comorbidity with psychological conditions.

    Perhaps the more intelligent posters on PB can explain the following to us:

    High intelligence: A risk factor for psychological and physiological overexcitabilities
    Ruth I.KarpinskiaAudrey M.Kinase KolbabNicole A.TetreaultcThomas B.Borowski

    Highlights
    A potential association between a hyperbrain (high IQ) and a hyperbody was examined.
    Those with high IQ had higher risk for psychological disorders (RR 1.20 - 223.08).
    High IQ was associated with higher risk for physiological diseases (RR 1.84 - 4.33).
    Findings lend substantial support to a hyper brain/hyper body theory.

    Abstract

    High intelligence is touted as being predictive of positive outcomes including educational success and income level. However, little is known about the difficulties experienced among this population. Specifically, those with a high intellectual capacity (hyper brain) possess overexcitabilities in various domains that may predispose them to certain psychological disorders as well as physiological conditions involving elevated sensory, and altered immune and inflammatory responses (hyper body). The present study surveyed members of American Mensa, Ltd. (n = 3715) in order to explore psychoneuroimmunological (PNI) processes among those at or above the 98th percentile of intelligence. Participants were asked to self-report prevalence of both diagnosed and/or suspected mood and anxiety disorders, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), autism spectrum disorder (ASD), and physiological diseases that include environmental and food allergies, asthma, and autoimmune disease. High statistical significance and a remarkably high relative risk ratio of diagnoses for all examined conditions were confirmed among the Mensa group 2015 data when compared to the national average statistics. This implicates high IQ as being a potential risk factor for affective disorders, ADHD, ASD, and for increased incidence of disease related to immune dysregulation. Preliminary findings strongly support a hyper brain/hyper body association which may have substantial individual and societal implications and warrants further investigation to best identify and serve this at-risk population.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mildly amused a post in which I flagged up a potential hedge for anyone who had backed under 200 MPs supporting May's deal in the vote has been considered off-topic by someone. Assume that's fat finger syndrome.

    A spot of Twitter chuntering I saw earlier today suggested that Mercedes may have made an initial misstep with the 2019 engine, but might just be silly season nonsense.

    A betting post? Na, that’s as off topic as it gets.

    Does anyone even use the off topic button? Is this the modern manifestation of the nonexistent ignore button that some PB snowflakes used to claim to use in days of yore?
    Mainly fat finger stndrome. As for ignore, it wasn’t a button, rather a browser extension.
    Oh dear – that some people would go to such lengths on an anonymous internet forum is depressing!
    Never used it myself, but you yourself have pointed out that some posters can be rather tedious.

    I was hoping for an extension that highlighted all references to AV and pineapple pizza, since that’s mainly why I’m here. :D
    Indeed, I await an extension that filters out posts that fail to include a reference to the classic action movie Die Hard.

    (I was in junior high, dickhead)
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:


    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.

    It is Patel's inference that she wants to push Ireland off.
    I read it as reminding them of what will happen if this thing doesn’t pass.
    Just as well you’re in America, in the event of food and med shortages it’s going to be grim for people who voted Leave.

    Everyday will become punch a leaver day.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    To be fair to Ms Patel, her actual words as quoted by the newspaper which ran this story were:

    “This paper [a UK government report] appears to show the government were well aware Ireland will face significant issues in a no-deal scenario. Why hasn’t this point been pressed home during negotiations? There is still time to go back to Brussels and get a better deal.”

    That's not a threat, it's a statement of the obvious point that No Deal is unthinkable for both sides.

    I’m shocked people haven’t actually read the quote.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Polruan said:

    Xenon said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    It's fine for the EU to make these threats, encouraged even, all because we deserve it for voting to leave. But if we try and do anything similar then it's absolutely outrageous.

    That's the mindset of the EU supporters unfortunately.
    I’m not sure that the refusal of the Eu to change the rules of the EU to mitigate the consequences of us ceasing to be members of the EU counts as a threat, but perhaps I’m missing something.
    We're part of a wider community of European nations than simply 'the EU'. NATO, the UN and so on. If they want to treat us as if we've just popped up in the channel like some fecking Icelandic volcano, that's fine by me, but let's not drool with admiration at their rigidity; it'll do for 'em in the end.
  • Mr. Evershed, interesting, I hadn't heard of a high correlation between high intelligence and physiological problems before. That said, I'd class hyperactivity/autism as psychological, so it seems to be reinforcing my original point to an extent.

    A sci-fi I sketched out but never wrote featured a society that had stopped trying to clone, and amp up the intellect of, geniuses because they kept being either totally insane or psychopaths. One plan was for a Tesla clone to be an ineffable genius who invented incredible weapons but was scared of Tuesdays.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited December 2018

    Mr. Evershed, also, higher intelligence has a high comorbidity with psychological conditions.

    Perhaps the more intelligent posters on PB can explain the following to us:

    High intelligence: A risk factor for psychological and physiological overexcitabilities
    Ruth I.KarpinskiaAudrey M.Kinase KolbabNicole A.TetreaultcThomas B.Borowski

    Highlights
    A potential association between a hyperbrain (high IQ) and a hyperbody was examined.
    Those with high IQ had higher risk for psychological disorders (RR 1.20 - 223.08).
    High IQ was associated with higher risk for physiological diseases (RR 1.84 - 4.33).
    Findings lend substantial support to a hyper brain/hyper body theory.

    Abstract

    High intelligence is touted as being predictive of positive outcomes including educational success and income level. However, little is known about the difficulties experienced among this population. Specifically, those with a high intellectual capacity (hyper brain) possess overexcitabilities in various domains that may predispose them to certain psychological disorders as well as physiological conditions involving elevated sensory, and altered immune and inflammatory responses (hyper body). The present study surveyed members of American Mensa, Ltd. (n = 3715) in order to explore psychoneuroimmunological (PNI) processes among those at or above the 98th percentile of intelligence. Participants were asked to self-report prevalence of both diagnosed and/or suspected mood and anxiety disorders, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), autism spectrum disorder (ASD), and physiological diseases that include environmental and food allergies, asthma, and autoimmune disease. High statistical significance and a remarkably high relative risk ratio of diagnoses for all examined conditions were confirmed among the Mensa group 2015 data when compared to the national average statistics. This implicates high IQ as being a potential risk factor for affective disorders, ADHD, ASD, and for increased incidence of disease related to immune dysregulation. Preliminary findings strongly support a hyper brain/hyper body association which may have substantial individual and societal implications and warrants further investigation to best identify and serve this at-risk population.
    Using MENSA as an indicator of high IQ people is very misleading. They are a strange subset of that group.
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471
    edited December 2018
    Polruan said:

    Xenon said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    It's fine for the EU to make these threats, encouraged even, all because we deserve it for voting to leave. But if we try and do anything similar then it's absolutely outrageous.

    That's the mindset of the EU supporters unfortunately.
    I’m not sure that the refusal of the Eu to change the rules of the EU to mitigate the consequences of us ceasing to be members of the EU counts as a threat, but perhaps I’m missing something.
    And they're just pointing out the deal is unacceptable and the consequences of that on one of their members.

    Not that the backstop is one of their rules anyway.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    To be fair to Ms Patel, her actual words as quoted by the newspaper which ran this story were:

    “This paper [a UK government report] appears to show the government were well aware Ireland will face significant issues in a no-deal scenario. Why hasn’t this point been pressed home during negotiations? There is still time to go back to Brussels and get a better deal.”

    That's not a threat, it's a statement of the obvious point that No Deal is unthinkable for both sides.

    Then why is she not only thinking it , but openly advocating it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mildly amused a post in which I flagged up a potential hedge for anyone who had backed under 200 MPs supporting May's deal in the vote has been considered off-topic by someone. Assume that's fat finger syndrome.

    A spot of Twitter chuntering I saw earlier today suggested that Mercedes may have made an initial misstep with the 2019 engine, but might just be silly season nonsense.

    A betting post? Na, that’s as off topic as it gets.

    Does anyone even use the off topic button? Is this the modern manifestation of the nonexistent ignore button that some PB snowflakes used to claim to use in days of yore?
    Mainly fat finger stndrome. As for ignore, it wasn’t a button, rather a browser extension.
    Oh dear – that some people would go to such lengths on an anonymous internet forum is depressing!
    Never used it myself, but you yourself have pointed out that some posters can be rather tedious.

    I was hoping for an extension that highlighted all references to AV and pineapple pizza, since that’s mainly why I’m here. :D
    Indeed, I await an extension that filters out posts that fail to include a reference to the classic action movie Die Hard.

    (I was in junior high, dickhead)
    Ho ho ho. :D
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Mr. Evershed, interesting, I hadn't heard of a high correlation between high intelligence and physiological problems before. That said, I'd class hyperactivity/autism as psychological, so it seems to be reinforcing my original point to an extent.

    A sci-fi I sketched out but never wrote featured a society that had stopped trying to clone, and amp up the intellect of, geniuses because they kept being either totally insane or psychopaths. One plan was for a Tesla clone to be an ineffable genius who invented incredible weapons but was scared of Tuesdays.

    I think it was Orson Scott Card's 'Xenocide' that described a society of hyper-intelligent administrators who were genetically engineered to have crippling OCD. I hasten to add that this wasn't the main thrust of the novel, but it was an interesting concept.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    John_M said:

    Polruan said:

    Xenon said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    It's fine for the EU to make these threats, encouraged even, all because we deserve it for voting to leave. But if we try and do anything similar then it's absolutely outrageous.

    That's the mindset of the EU supporters unfortunately.
    I’m not sure that the refusal of the Eu to change the rules of the EU to mitigate the consequences of us ceasing to be members of the EU counts as a threat, but perhaps I’m missing something.
    We're part of a wider community of European nations than simply 'the EU'. NATO, the UN and so on. If they want to treat us as if we've just popped up in the channel like some fecking Icelandic volcano, that's fine by me, but let's not drool with admiration at their rigidity; it'll do for 'em in the end.
    Neither of those are communities of European nations though, and all of the forms of leaving on offer involve us being treated like other members of those communities are treated by members of the EU.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited December 2018
    Big Ipsos MORI info-dump contains very little joy for May.

    62% of voters think May's deal will be bad for the UK.

    image

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/six-ten-think-withdrawal-deal-would-be-bad-uk-public-cant-agree-what-should-happen-next
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471

    RobD said:

    RobD said:


    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.

    It is Patel's inference that she wants to push Ireland off.
    I read it as reminding them of what will happen if this thing doesn’t pass.
    Just as well you’re in America, in the event of food and med shortages it’s going to be grim for people who voted Leave.

    Everyday will become punch a leaver day.
    When the EU army is up and running it will be carrying out orders on behalf of people like this.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    There is another judgment in a Brexit legal case due next week.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2018-0080.html

    This is the Scottish case as to whether The UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (Scotland) Bill is within the powers of the Scottish Parliament.

    Judgment is due on Thursday 13 December.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Xenon said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:


    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.

    It is Patel's inference that she wants to push Ireland off.
    I read it as reminding them of what will happen if this thing doesn’t pass.
    Just as well you’re in America, in the event of food and med shortages it’s going to be grim for people who voted Leave.

    Everyday will become punch a leaver day.
    When the EU army is up and running it will be carrying out orders on behalf of people like this.
    Oh come on, they'll all have died from old age before that happens.
  • Mr. M, it is interesting that psychological conditions correlate with high intelligence.

    A while ago I read a theory this was actually an evolutionary advantage for a species. Psychopath leaders, bipolar creative people advancing culture, that sort of thing.

    Of course, that also means you get serial killers and people who suffer tremendously with phobias, OCD, and so on.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    New thread, I refrained from nabbing the 1st.
  • dixiedean said:

    To be fair to Ms Patel, her actual words as quoted by the newspaper which ran this story were:

    “This paper [a UK government report] appears to show the government were well aware Ireland will face significant issues in a no-deal scenario. Why hasn’t this point been pressed home during negotiations? There is still time to go back to Brussels and get a better deal.”

    That's not a threat, it's a statement of the obvious point that No Deal is unthinkable for both sides.

    Then why is she not only thinking it , but openly advocating it?
    She's advocating that we point it out to the EU, in the hope of getting the EU to modify or drop the backstop which threatens the deal. All perfectly logical as far as it goes, and certainly not reprehensible (it would be reprehensible to drop into No Deal without pointing it out), but unfortunately it won't work because the EU won't budge. And they won't budge because they realise we will, as a look at the parliamentary numbers will confirm.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,176
    TGOHF said:

    Have we left yet ?

    May still PM ?

    No.

    For a few days.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,744

    Big Ipsos MORI info-dump contains very little joy for May.

    62% of voters think May's deal will be bad for the UK.

    May's personal ratings are up, so voters clearly distinguish May from the grisly project she's being forced to deliver.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    RobD said:


    Doesn’t the latter imply you want them to fall off? I don’t think that’s the case here.

    It is Patel's inference that she wants to push Ireland off.
    I read it as reminding them of what will happen if this thing doesn’t pass.
    Just as well you’re in America, in the event of food and med shortages it’s going to be grim for people who voted Leave.

    Everyday will become punch a leaver day.
    I assume Leavers will be forced to wear some form of identifying mark so they can be appropriately punished?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,744
    AKK is the new leader of the CDU.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    philiph said:

    New thread, I refrained from nabbing the 1st.

    Truly a scholar and a gentleman.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,176

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    How low can the Tories get , they are beyond the gutter and now about to be lower than the sewers
    I think Patel is just pointing out that a friction border could cause problems both sides of the border - so there is also an incentive for the EU to compromise on the Backstop.
    Funny that there is no outrage at the use of potential medicines shortages to push the UK government in a particular direction.
    We're the ones who voted for this.

    More childishness. Specific punishments of is are still a choice for others to decide upon, 'you started it' is not a moral defence even on the playground
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Can't see this upthread, but Highland Council reports that
    'Following the resignation of Councillor Kate Stephen in Ward 5 (Wester Ross, Strathpeffer and Lochalsh), a by-election was held on Thursday 6 December 2018Voting was by the single transferable vote and Alexander MacInnes - Scottish National Party (SNP) emerged as the winner at the 8th stage of the count.

    The turnout was 40.65%'

    SNP gain from LD. but look at the turnout!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T Here's one for all you privately educated PBers who are so committed to equal opportunities to explain:

    Oxbridge 'over-recruits from eight schools'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46470838

    "The report shows the imbalance in admissions:
    7% of all UK pupils attend private schools
    18% of those taking A-levels are at private school
    34% of Oxbridge applications are from private school
    42% of Oxbridge places go to private school pupils"

    You're making a very compelling case for abolitioning the Department for Education & LEAs and privatising the school system.

    Instead of spending so much money on schools and wages we give the parents of every child school vouchers and they can choose where they send their kids.
    Equal opportunities not really high on your list is it TSE?
    It is, is why I'm an egalitarian, is why I'm favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    etc.
    That would be unjust. People who perform well at A Level would be penalised because of their social background. People who perform badly would get in regardless.
    Which do you think it the greater achievement: getting an 'A*' A-level at Eton or a 'B' at an inner-city comprehensive?

    Well, if you have a better way to change our education system so that 'not very bright but well-educated numpties' stroll into well-paid influential jobs, I'd like to hear it.
    Prosecute employers who only consider Oxbridge graduates.
    Are there any? I'd be surprised.
    I knew a department manager who only wanted to recruit from his old university. FCGI
    As I said: 'not very bright but well-educated numpties stroll into well-paid influential jobs'.
    Any evidence that 'not very bright' students get into Oxbridge?
    I suspect that until circa 1950 that was true of many of the entrants who obtained 'places' rather than Scholarships or Exhibitions.Very few Grammar School applicants were able to afford the fees associated with a mere 'place' , and as a result Oxbridge was widely seen as a Finishing School for the public schools. Many of those from feepaying schools who obtained a place in that period would be unlikely to have gained entry from circa 1960 onwards.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,012
    edited December 2018
    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    5.7m hectares in Scotland, more than I would have thought.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    Not in any way condoning Patel's comments but according to the Irish Independent Ireland imports 50% of its food. Although they put it in a strange way of 50% of Irish food spend is on imported goods. Not sure if that is quite the same thing.
    Well, yes in a modern economy people like to eat stuff that isn't necessarily grown locally to them. Ireland is a net food exporter though, is it not? The UK isn't.
    Okay this is just weird (and completely off topic).

    I went looking for the import/export numbers for Irish foodstuffs and found this:

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-exports/

    Apparently Ireland's most valuable export product in 2017 was.... blood fractions. Worth $19.9 billion
    CSL Behring the world leader in blood fractionation is a $100bn business. Not sure who has a site in Ireland but there are huge economies of scale
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527


    Any evidence that 'not very bright' students get into Oxbridge?

    Not very bright students get into Oxford.

    For example David Miliband got in with a D and 3 Bs.

    Cambridge let in Prince Charles with a B & C.
    Miliband's B grades from the early 1980s would equate to a good A grade today.
    Charles took his A levels in mid-1960s - his results would easily be worth 2 A grades nowadays.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679


    Only “deal” and “no deal” are within the gift of the British electorate.

    And since Parliament seems to plan to ignore them on the former, why should we expect any different on the latter?

    I don't see how No Deal could ever be on a ballot paper. For one thing, Parliament will never agree to implement it, so could not risk it being an option.

    Secondly, it'd never pass the electoral commission's clarity tests, since it's not clear to anyone what No Deal actually means and what the consequences are.

    The referendum will be Remain vs May Deal, Brexiteers will boycott it by their millions, Remain will win by a landslide, UK will remain but on a referendum with zero legitimacy.
    "Secondly, it'd never pass the electoral commission's clarity tests, since it's not clear to anyone what No Deal actually means and what the consequences are."

    Er... How did 'Leave' get on the 2016 ballot then?
    Many of us voted on the assumption that there was a plan in place for the implementation of that option. If you want to complain about an abuse of democracy, the decision not to prepare for one of the outcomes is the one you should be gunning for.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Pulpstar said:


    Force a potato famine in Ireland?

    Could work.
    Yes, wasn't she talked about as a future leader at one point?
    What an idiot.
    This threat is not only in terrible taste it is also ridiculous, Ireland is more food secure than the UK; it's not an Irish lumper pototato monoculture any more.

    Agricultural land:

    Ireland: 4.4 million hectares, 4.8 million people
    UK: 17.2 million hectares, 66 million people.
    And if we hadn't mishandled the food supply situation on the island of Ireland in the past, the population of Ireland today could be 20 million plus and the UK could be the biggest economy in the EU. I don't think we'd hear much about Brexit if things had panned out that way.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Can't see this upthread, but Highland Council reports that
    'Following the resignation of Councillor Kate Stephen in Ward 5 (Wester Ross, Strathpeffer and Lochalsh), a by-election was held on Thursday 6 December 2018Voting was by the single transferable vote and Alexander MacInnes - Scottish National Party (SNP) emerged as the winner at the 8th stage of the count.

    The turnout was 40.65%'

    SNP gain from LD. but look at the turnout!

    That's is surely mistake? 40 percent for a local government by election in December?
  • Whether withdrawal of article is possible and whether it is politically possible are two different things. 84% of votes at the 2017 general election were for parties that said they would respect the 2016 referendum result including all Conservative and Labour MP's. It is now clear they had no intention of doing so and that they lied to achieve election. Parliament is in contempt of the people. We have a parliament with no moral authority to make any decision at all on leaving the EU or anything else for that matter. Time for a wager on the next general election having the lowest turn out in history as million of voters disengage from a political class that has shown them total disregard.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Whether withdrawal of article is possible and whether it is politically possible are two different things. 84% of votes at the 2017 general election were for parties that said they would respect the 2016 referendum result including all Conservative and Labour MP's. It is now clear they had no intention of doing so and that they lied to achieve election. Parliament is in contempt of the people. We have a parliament with no moral authority to make any decision at all on leaving the EU or anything else for that matter. Time for a wager on the next general election having the lowest turn out in history as million of voters disengage from a political class that has shown them total disregard.

    Get yourself over to the other thread; it's where all the action is.
This discussion has been closed.