Brexiteers can complain about many, many things. But in the middle of the worst political crisis in over 50 years, complaining about others causing chaos is not one of them.
Nope. This is down to you I am afraid.
Did I take back control and didn't notice? I am sure I voted against this nonsense. The fact the Brexiteers have failed to come up with a credible, workable plan is no-ones fault but their own.
In case you missed it this whole affair has been run by a Remainer.
Yes this government is spectacularly useless. There is only one thing weaker. The Brexiters who put it there, supported it, led the negotiations and currently carp and complain about it, but when push comes to shove can't even find 48 people to back their cause.
When Brexit reared its ugly head, Brexiteers bravely turned and fled...
I was thinking of increasing my investment exposure to the UK, but fear of Boris holds me back.
Boris could benefit from the SNP effect, people vote to Remain in the Union out of fear of the economic damage of leaving then vote in a Leaver as First Minister/PM out of guilt to stand up for Scotland/The UK
I am staying in the club. The clue is in the flag....
In which case it is none of your business. And it proves you a liar since you spent plenty of time on here claiming you were not going to leave Britain.
I have not left Britain, unlike many Leavers who are either permanently abroad or already have done a runner. I will always be an EU citizen whether I stay in the UK or not.
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Labour's 2017 election manifesto categorically rejected a No Deal Brexit. If push comes tom shove that gives enough Labour MPs the cover to back May's deal over crashing out. But all other options need to be tested first. My guess is that the likeliest scenario is no election, no referendum, no new PM and a final May Deal or No Deal vote that will see the former option get through because the alternative is so much worse.
Why deliberately rule out a People's Vote? Rule out No Deal instead and vote on May or Remain.
We already voted on Remain and it lost. Now we should just be voting on the type of Leave we have. That seems the logical and reasonable way to proceed.
It does sound reasonable on the surface. However, as others have pointed out, leavers had different versions of Brexit in mind when they voted.
We have leavers telling us they would prefer remain to no deal and leavers telling us that they prefer remain to Mrs May's deal. It is probable that neither Brexit option commands a majority as I have yet to hear a remainer say they now prefer either Brexit option over remaining.
I can understand why you would want to restrict the choice but I can't see the justification for it. Trying to pretend there is a majority for either of the Brexit options by restricting the options won't resolve the issue.
So if Leavers had different versions of Leave in their mind then voting for the two extremes - No Deal or an incredibly soft deal - seems to be a perfectly reasonable position. Taking the opportunity to revisit the question of whether or not we leave is not.
Far better to have a Leave with Deal v Leave with No Deal question then put the winner of that up against Remain in a second question in a two part referendum
Nope. Remain should not get another shot. Well, unless you think we should revisit the same question again every 2 years for ever more. Of course the EU and the Remainiacs only want to repeat the question until they win as you showed earlier. You really must hate this country that you would plunge it into such chaos.
If voters change their mind then a referendum is likely and No Deal 'crash out' Brexit is a bit different from the promised 'easiest Deal in history'
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
He has fundamental misconceptions from worshipping at the altar of Richard North. The fact he doesn't think the backstop is necessary speaks volumes.
I find it astonishing that Corbyn is arguing that the EU will renegotiate “at the 11th hour” citing a history of doing so. Even if that were theoretically true, there is a complete difference between the usual 11th hour stuff where no deal = a fallback to the status quo. An 11th hour agreement to avert no deal Brexit will essentially retain all the negative consequences of nodeal Brexit because everyone will have already had to assume it will happen and taken action accordingly. If a deal isn’t in place soon, nobody will have made holiday plans post March, businesses will have stockpiled as much as they can to guarantee supplies for as long as they can, the pound will have fallen through the floor, Parliament will be in six pieces with everyone blaming each other etc. etc.
And largely, if you believe Labour, because the withdrawal agreement covering the temporary period until a proper trade deal is agreed doesn’t include provision for a permanent customs union.
Now somebody in favour of no deal may not mind that, but for somebody to be advocating that whilst asserting no deal will be a disaster and will be avoided at all costs...
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
He has fundamental misconceptions from worshipping at the altar of Richard North. The fact he doesn't think the backstop is necessary speaks volumes.
Not really. It depends on your position on Northern Ireland. I am of the view that it is an anachronistic state long overdue for separation from the UK if that is what its people want. Anything which actually makes that more likely in a peaceful way seems to me to be a good thing. It was the desire by unionists to keep N Ireland as part of the UK that made the backstop appealing to May.
Nor do I agree with all that Richard North says. But his basic position of a Brexit based on independence not on curtailing immigration seems very sound. He is still a cantankerous old sod who doesn't play well with others though.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
Brexiteers can complain about many, many things. But in the middle of the worst political crisis in over 50 years, complaining about others causing chaos is not one of them.
Nope. This is down to you I am afraid.
Did I take back control and didn't notice? I am sure I voted against this nonsense. The fact the Brexiteers have failed to come up with a credible, workable plan is no-ones fault but their own.
In case you missed it this whole affair has been run by a Remainer.
Which makes you wonder quite how much worse things would be if thIs process had been run by a member of the ERG - my conclusion is very much
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
Exorcising immigration from Brexit is definitely a good thing. Too late now. Sadly.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
This is the Hannanite position where you might represent 4% of the Leave vote, but you expect 100% of Remainers to back you up in order to constitute a majority in order to betray your own side.
I am staying in the club. The clue is in the flag....
In which case it is none of your business. And it proves you a liar since you spent plenty of time on here claiming you were not going to leave Britain.
I have not left Britain, unlike many Leavers who are either permanently abroad or already have done a runner. I will always be an EU citizen whether I stay in the UK or not.
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
Nope because you are happily proclaiming your rat hole where you can run if you don't like Brexit. The rest of us do not choose to have that opportunity.
Nope. Remain should not get another shot. Well, unless you think we should revisit the same question again every 2 years for ever more. Of course the EU and the Remainiacs only want to repeat the question until they win as you showed earlier. You really must hate this country that you would plunge it into such chaos.
On the other hand, remain is an obvious option in a referendum, and one that is wanted by a significant proportion of people (indeed, 48-odd% voted for it just two years ago). Not having it as an option could be seen as obviously undemocratic.
But as I've said before, I have doubts if the EU would really want us to remain given all the sh*t and trouble the Europhobes have caused them.
Also, I hate the idea of a three-way referendum, and cannot see it producing a result that would be conclusive.
And remain or leaver, that's what we need from another referendum: a definite conclusion, one way or the other.
When we have enacted the first referendum feel free to press for a rejoin. Until then you have no credibility.
Leave won the first referendum on a central lie - one that was pointed out at the time, and ignored. As such, it is essentially undeliverable - which is why we're in this mess now.
Continuing with something so fatally flawed could be seen as silly, if not insane given the damage it could do.
No they didn't. Much as you might wish it to be true it is still rubbish no matter how many times you might repeat it.
Why is it rubbish?
Because there was no central lie that won Brexit. It is just an excuse made up by Remainers who are desperate to find someway to overturn a democratic decision.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
I appreciate that although as I have mentioned before my past means that I would never be able to get into that position in the first place.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
The Brexit deal should always have been about what would get most support in the country, not what one set of Leave voters wanted.
I am staying in the club. The clue is in the flag....
In which case it is none of your business. And it proves you a liar since you spent plenty of time on here claiming you were not going to leave Britain.
I have not left Britain, unlike many Leavers who are either permanently abroad or already have done a runner. I will always be an EU citizen whether I stay in the UK or not.
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
Nope because you are happily proclaiming your rat hole where you can run if you don't like Brexit. The rest of us do not choose to have that opportunity.
I am not proclaiming any such thing. I am saying that I believe in people pulling together and doing their best to overcome problems and seeking a way forward united. You, on the other hand, apparently want to bury your head in some insular sand.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
So shaft working class Leavers without whom you would never have won the referendum now they have outlived their usefulness to get the Brexit you want? That only leads in one direction, a far Right resurgence.
May's Deal respects the Leave vote as far as possible including working class Leavers immigration concerns while still enabling a Deal with the EU to protect the economy
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
He may understand the economic issues, the political issues not so much. Maybe somebody like Gove could have successfully pursued a Norway Brexit solution. May, or any other remainer, not a chance.
Great to have Richard T back. The thinking man’s leaver. Even his abrasive ripostes are delivered with panache.
LOL. Thankyou. In all seriousness the other night the wife of a work colleague who had spoken to me on the phone a few times stated on her facebook page that I would be her number one choice to read her a bedtime story.
Thankfully her husband is a good bloke who took it in the right way otherwise things might have got a little difficult....
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
So shaft working class Leavers without whom you would never have won the referendum now they have outlived their usefulness to get the Brexit you want?
Hardly shafting them. You see things in stark black and white which is why you have bounced backwards and forwards being vehemently for or against Brexit over the last 2 years. Life is far more nuanced. Unfortunately you are far too similar to the ERG in your attitudes to this debate.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
The Brexit deal should always have been about what would get most support in the country, not what one set of Leave voters wanted.
Without that set of Leave voters Remain would have won
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
He may understand the economic issues, the political issues not so much. Maybe somebody like Gove could have successfully pursued a Norway Brexit solution. May, or any other remainer, not a chance.
Gove could never have done that because he conceived Brexit as a power play against the EU. He thought we could call the shots and effectively smash the existing European order.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
The Brexit deal should always have been about what would get most support in the country, not what one set of Leave voters wanted.
Great to have Richard T back. The thinking man’s leaver. Even his abrasive ripostes are delivered with panache.
LOL. Thankyou. In all seriousness the other night the wife of a work colleague who had spoken to me on the phone a few times stated on her facebook page that I would be her number one choice to read her a bedtime story.
Thankfully her husband is a good bloke who took it in the right way otherwise things might have got a little difficult....
Brexiteers can complain about many, many things. But in the middle of the worst political crisis in over 50 years, complaining about others causing chaos is not one of them.
Nope. This is down to you I am afraid.
Did I take back control and didn't notice? I am sure I voted against this nonsense. The fact the Brexiteers have failed to come up with a credible, workable plan is no-ones fault but their own.
In case you missed it this whole affair has been run by a Remainer.
Which makes you wonder quite how much worse things would be if thIs process had been run by a member of the ERG - my conclusion is very much
Depends how you define “worse”. With ERG in charge the Brexit process would have probably been abandoned months ago.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
So shaft working class Leavers without whom you would never have won the referendum now they have outlived their usefulness to get the Brexit you want?
Hardly shafting them. You see things in stark black and white which is why you have bounced backwards and forwards being vehemently for or against Brexit over the last 2 years. Life is far more nuanced. Unfortunately you are far too similar to the ERG in your attitudes to this debate.
I back a Deal which respects the fact immigration concerns were a key part of the referendum. Had Leave focused solely on an EFTA, single market alternative to the EU you may have a point but their posters on migrants show they did not and like it or not that has to be part of the Brexit we go to.
Though even I would prefer EFTA to No Deal or Remain if May's Deal is voted down
I am staying in the club. The clue is in the flag....
In which case it is none of your business. And it proves you a liar since you spent plenty of time on here claiming you were not going to leave Britain.
I have not left Britain, unlike many Leavers who are either permanently abroad or already have done a runner. I will always be an EU citizen whether I stay in the UK or not.
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
Nope because you are happily proclaiming your rat hole where you can run if you don't like Brexit. The rest of us do not choose to have that opportunity.
I am not proclaiming any such thing. I am saying that I believe in people pulling together and doing their best to overcome problems and seeking a way forward united. You, on the other hand, apparently want to bury your head in some insular sand.
I will leave you to it.
Apologies Beverley. One of the reasons I left PB for many months was because I was too quick to bite back at comments I disagreed with in a personal way. It is certainly not my way in real life and I thought it better to withdraw as it became the norm for me on here.
I do not wish to return to that style of debate so want to say sorry straight away.
Until next time I suspect when I will probably do the same thing again. PB really is very bad for me.
Great to have Richard T back. The thinking man’s leaver. Even his abrasive ripostes are delivered with panache.
Hear hear. He’s on a losing wicket, but handles himself better than celebrity Brexiteers on the telly.
In fairness, he was spot on with what to do about Brexit. He proposed EEA single market from Day One. Had we done that, we’d all be getting on with our lives by now.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
The Brexit deal should always have been about what would get most support in the country, not what one set of Leave voters wanted.
Without that set of Leave voters Remain would have won
So what? We all have to live with the consequences of Brexit, not just working class Leave voters.
I am staying in the club. The clue is in the flag....
In which case it is none of your business. And it proves you a liar since you spent plenty of time on here claiming you were not going to leave Britain.
I have not left Britain, unlike many Leavers who are either permanently abroad or already have done a runner. I will always be an EU citizen whether I stay in the UK or not.
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
Nope because you are happily proclaiming your rat hole where you can run if you don't like Brexit. The rest of us do not choose to have that opportunity.
I am not proclaiming any such thing. I am saying that I believe in people pulling together and doing their best to overcome problems and seeking a way forward united. You, on the other hand, apparently want to bury your head in some insular sand.
I will leave you to it.
Apologies Beverley. One of the reasons I left PB for many months was because I was too quick to bite back at comments I disagreed with in a personal way. It is certainly not my way in real life and I thought it better to withdraw as it became the norm for me on here.
I do not wish to return to that style of debate so want to say sorry straight away.
Until next time I suspect when I will probably do the same thing again. PB really is very bad for me.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
This is the Hannanite position where you might represent 4% of the Leave vote, but you expect 100% of Remainers to back you up in order to constitute a majority in order to betray your own side.
A few days prior to the referendum it was a question explicitly asked in a poll by Yougov. 42% of Leave voters said they would be happy with the EFTA/EEA option with continued freedom of movement.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
The contrast to May is stark. Whatever you think of her, her massive grasp of Brexit detail is completely unmatched by any of the other pretenders to the throne.
The contrast to May is stark. Whatever you think of her, her massive grasp of Brexit detail is completely unmatched by any of the other pretenders to the throne.
That much is true. She is woefully deficient in many ways but right now we do need someone with a grasp of the detail.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
I am staying in the club. The clue is in the flag....
In which case it is none of your business. And it proves you a liar since you spent plenty of time on here claiming you were not going to leave Britain.
I have not left Britain, unlike many Leavers who are either permanently abroad or already have done a runner. I will always be an EU citizen whether I stay in the UK or not.
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
Nope because you are happily proclaiming your rat hole where you can run if you don't like Brexit. The rest of us do not choose to have that opportunity.
I am not proclaiming any such thing. I am saying that I believe in people pulling together and doing their best to overcome problems and seeking a way forward united. You, on the other hand, apparently want to bury your head in some insular sand.
I will leave you to it.
Apologies Beverley. One of the reasons I left PB for many months was because I was too quick to bite back at comments I disagreed with in a personal way. It is certainly not my way in real life and I thought it better to withdraw as it became the norm for me on here.
I do not wish to return to that style of debate so want to say sorry straight away.
Until next time I suspect when I will probably do the same thing again. PB really is very bad for me.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
This is the Hannanite position where you might represent 4% of the Leave vote, but you expect 100% of Remainers to back you up in order to constitute a majority in order to betray your own side.
A few days prior to the referendum it was a question explicitly asked in a poll by Yougov. 42% of Leave voters said they would be happy with the EFTA/EEA option with continued freedom of movement.
So no, not 4%.
but still only 20-23% of all voters so likely to come 3rd or 4th were you to hold an all options AV vote...
Although given that no poll actually identified the final result I suspect that 42% misses out a lot of voters where immigration was the defining reason for their vote.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
This is the Hannanite position where you might represent 4% of the Leave vote, but you expect 100% of Remainers to back you up in order to constitute a majority in order to betray your own side.
A few days prior to the referendum it was a question explicitly asked in a poll by Yougov. 42% of Leave voters said they would be happy with the EFTA/EEA option with continued freedom of movement.
So no, not 4%.
but still only 20-23% of all voters so likely to come 3rd or 4th were you to hold an all options AV vote...
Surely most remainers would vote for it as a second choice in an AV vote? Would it not stand a decent chance of winning?
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
The contrast to May is stark. Whatever you think of her, her massive grasp of Brexit detail is completely unmatched by any of the other pretenders to the throne.
When one capitulates that hard and that often, one tends to get quite good at it.
And I'm sure Olly Robbins has been sure to keep May informed so she knows exactly what the EU has decided for us and why.
Con home commenters don’t seem so Leave friendly these days... The anti no deal press should be plastering their front page with the idiocies of the likes of Davis, Owen whatsizname and Raab to the exclusion of all else over the next few days. it might actually give us a chance...
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
But Brexit is not just for working class Leavers. It is for everyone. Hence the whole point of a compromise position.
This is the Hannanite position where you might represent 4% of the Leave vote, but you expect 100% of Remainers to back you up in order to constitute a majority in order to betray your own side.
A few days prior to the referendum it was a question explicitly asked in a poll by Yougov. 42% of Leave voters said they would be happy with the EFTA/EEA option with continued freedom of movement.
So no, not 4%.
but still only 20-23% of all voters so likely to come 3rd or 4th were you to hold an all options AV vote...
Although given that no poll actually identified the final result I suspect that 42% misses out a lot of voters where immigration was the defining reason for their vote.
Cameron should have had the referedum run as an exhaustive ballot of the options: Join Schengen/Euro; Remain as is; EFTA/EEA; Canada+; No Deal.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Genuinely coincidentally, I have happened upon the following article:
Working my way through the doc (Still) - Art 23 ii is a good one
By way of derogation from paragraph 1, the host State shall not be obliged to confer entitlement to social assistance during periods of residence on the basis of Article 6 or point (b) of Article 14(4) of Directive 2004/38/EC, nor shall it be obliged, prior to a person's acquisition of the right of permanent residence in accordance with Article 15 of this Agreement, to grant maintenance aid for studies, including vocational training, consisting in student grants or student loans to persons other than workers, self-employed persons, persons who retain such status or to members of their families.
Nope. Remain should not get another shot. Well, unless you think we should revisit the same question again every 2 years for ever more. Of course the EU and the Remainiacs only want to repeat the question until they win as you showed earlier. You really must hate this country that you would plunge it into such chaos.
On the other hand, remain is an obvious option in a referendum, and one that is wanted by a significant proportion of people (indeed, 48-odd% voted for it just two years ago). Not having it as an option could be seen as obviously undemocratic.
But as I've said before, I have doubts if the EU would really want us to remain given all the sh*t and trouble the Europhobes have caused them.
Also, I hate the idea of a three-way referendum, and cannot see it producing a result that would be conclusive.
And remain or leaver, that's what we need from another referendum: a definite conclusion, one way or the other.
When we have enacted the first referendum feel free to press for a rejoin. Until then you have no credibility.
Leave won the first referendum on a central lie - one that was pointed out at the time, and ignored. As such, it is essentially undeliverable - which is why we're in this mess now.
Continuing with something so fatally flawed could be seen as silly, if not insane given the damage it could do.
No they didn't. Much as you might wish it to be true it is still rubbish no matter how many times you might repeat it.
Why is it rubbish?
Because there was no central lie that won Brexit. It is just an excuse made up by Remainers who are desperate to find someway to overturn a democratic decision.
I was pointing out the lie before the referendum, so it was hardly in response to leave's win.
In fact, the lie is a major part of the reason I reluctantly voted for remain: it was clear that the two different visions of leave could not be reconciled, especially wrt major factors such as immigration.
54 Tory MPs now declared against the deal, not including all those who resigned last week. Let's call it a nice round -60 for May, shall we?
Tim Loughton is the idiot that organised the Rally for Leadsom.
Nuff said.
Another absolute nobody.
The thing about these 50-60 absolute nobodies is they're absolute nobodies who are going to bring down May's deal.
I doubt it will be anywhere near 50-60 by the end of it. I was thinking 30 over the weekend, now I think it won't be as many as 25. If they're not willing to get rid of May now then they have to vote for the deal.
Nope. Remain should not get another shot. Well, unless you think we should revisit the same question again every 2 years for ever more. Of course the EU and the Remainiacs only want to repeat the question until they win as you showed earlier. You really must hate this country that you would plunge it into such chaos.
On the other hand, remain is an obvious option in a referendum, and one that is wanted by a significant proportion of people (indeed, 48-odd% voted for it just two years ago). Not having it as an option could be seen as obviously undemocratic.
But as I've said before, I have doubts if the EU would really want us to remain given all the sh*t and trouble the Europhobes have caused them.
Also, I hate the idea of a three-way referendum, and cannot see it producing a result that would be conclusive.
And remain or leaver, that's what we need from another referendum: a definite conclusion, one way or the other.
When we have enacted the first referendum feel free to press for a rejoin. Until then you have no credibility.
Leave won the first referendum on a central lie - one that was pointed out at the time, and ignored. As such, it is essentially undeliverable - which is why we're in this mess now.
Continuing with something so fatally flawed could be seen as silly, if not insane given the damage it could do.
No they didn't. Much as you might wish it to be true it is still rubbish no matter how many times you might repeat it.
Why is it rubbish?
Because there was no central lie that won Brexit. It is just an excuse made up by Remainers who are desperate to find someway to overturn a democratic decision.
I was pointing out the lie before the referendum, so it was hardly in response to leave's win.
In fact, the lie is a major part of the reason I reluctantly voted for remain: it was clear that the two different visions of leave could not be reconciled, especially wrt major factors such as immigration.
The thing that unites those two visions, however, is the desire to choose one's own masters and make our own laws. Neither vision is possible within the EU. Out of it, we're free to make the case for the UK we'd like to live in, and have the elected government of the day carry that out.
VAT refunds available from EU countries till the end of the transition period. Important for businesses that do exhibitions abroad.
Art 51 - 3. By way of derogation from paragraph 2 and from Article 15 of Council Directive 2008/9/EC1,refund applications that relate to VAT which was paid in a Member State by a taxable person established in the United Kingdom, or which was paid in the United Kingdom by a taxable person established in a Member State, shall be submitted under the conditions of that Directive at the latest on 31 March 2021.
I'm amazed Boris got through all this so quickly. It's not just the 585 pages, every other sentence frequently refers to a whole raft of existing European Union law.
Nope. Remain should not get another shot. Well, unless you think we should revisit the same question again every 2 years for ever more. Of course the EU and the Remainiacs only want to repeat the question until they win as you showed earlier. You really must hate this country that you would plunge it into such chaos.
On the other hand, remain is an obvious option in a referendum, and one that is wanted by a significant proportion of people (indeed, 48-odd% voted for it just two years ago). Not having it as an option could be seen as obviously undemocratic.
But as I've said before, I have doubts if the EU would really want us to remain given all the sh*t and trouble the Europhobes have caused them.
Also, I hate the idea of a three-way referendum, and cannot see it producing a result that would be conclusive.
And remain or leaver, that's what we need from another referendum: a definite conclusion, one way or the other.
When we have enacted the first referendum feel free to press for a rejoin. Until then you have no credibility.
Leave won the first referendum on a central lie - one that was pointed out at the time, and ignored. As such, it is essentially undeliverable - which is why we're in this mess now.
Continuing with something so fatally flawed could be seen as silly, if not insane given the damage it could do.
No they didn't. Much as you might wish it to be true it is still rubbish no matter how many times you might repeat it.
Why is it rubbish?
Because there was no central lie that won Brexit. It is just an excuse made up by Remainers who are desperate to find someway to overturn a democratic decision.
I was pointing out the lie before the referendum, so it was hardly in response to leave's win.
In fact, the lie is a major part of the reason I reluctantly voted for remain: it was clear that the two different visions of leave could not be reconciled, especially wrt major factors such as immigration.
The thing that unites those two visions, however, is the desire to choose one's own masters and make our own laws. Neither vision is possible within the EU. Out of it, we're free to make the case for the UK we'd like to live in, and have the elected government of the day carry that out.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
He may understand the economic issues, the political issues not so much. Maybe somebody like Gove could have successfully pursued a Norway Brexit solution. May, or any other remainer, not a chance.
That's a reason which people are using as an excuse. Back when they thought they would get what they wanted harder Brexiteers had no problem with May, a remainer, leading things. Indeed, we had posts on here of people convincing themselves she had really been for leave all along.
Now, someone is bound to say how things have gone have proven it was incorrect to go with May, but the point still stands that a remainer supporting a harder stance was deemed acceptable, therefore it was certainly possible, and admitted by harder leavers to be possible, for a remainer to have done so.
Perhaps this is the limitation on sovereignty that so concerned Boris ?
Art 74 3. The United Kingdom shall ensure that cryptographic products that use classified cryptographic algorithms developed under the control of, and evaluated and approved by the Crypto Approval Authority of a Member State or of the United Kingdom, which have been approved by the Union by the end of the transition period and that are present in the United Kingdom, are not transferred to a third country.
No selling of any classified codebreaking devices to Russia...
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
The Brexit deal should always have been about what would get most support in the country, not what one set of Leave voters wanted.
Without that set of Leave voters Remain would have won
So what? We all have to live with the consequences of Brexit, not just working class Leave voters.
Yes and it was the consequences of their vote which got Leave to 52%
Yes, I dont think that they have the numbers for that either.
The May-Barnier plan will pass, and the wounded PM will limp on.
If TM wins this she is entitled to a huge amount of credit
If pushing through a bad technocratic deal through fear is your bag, then yes.
It would be a heck of a political achievement given the circumstances, I don't know why there is a need to be churlish about that. One can acknowledge the political achievement of something without liking it in the slightest or being totally neutral about it, for instance Corbyn doing impressively well in 2017, Macron's win and subsequent parliamentary majority and so on and so forth.
He should just **** off and join the Tories. No really, that's actually what he should do.
Why is that? It's not like even the LDs had a 100% remain voting electorate.
I'm aware of that, though I doubt Cable et al are. No, he's clearly in the wrong party. I might not be particularly keen on the deal - I'm still not sure what I'd do if I was an MP - but here is an MP who made a promise to the voters of Eastbourne and he's actually going to keep it.
He should just **** off and join the Tories. No really, that's actually what he should do.
Why is that? It's not like even the LDs had a 100% remain voting electorate.
I'm aware of that, though I doubt Cable et al are. No, he's clearly in the wrong party. I might not be particularly keen on the deal - I'm still not sure what I'd do if I was an MP - but here is an MP who made a promise to the voters of Eastbourne and he's actually going to keep it.
The Lib Dems are neither liberal nor democratic.
"...here is an MP who made a promise to the voters...and he's actually going to keep it."
Hardly a good fit for the Conservative Party then, is he?
Yes, I dont think that they have the numbers for that either.
The May-Barnier plan will pass, and the wounded PM will limp on.
Nah. If this passes I would not be surprised to see her either go at once, or shortly announce she intends a handover in time for Brexit day. That's if she can avoid a GE in those circumstances.
He should just **** off and join the Tories. No really, that's actually what he should do.
Why is that? It's not like even the LDs had a 100% remain voting electorate.
I'm aware of that, though I doubt Cable et al are. No, he's clearly in the wrong party. I might not be particularly keen on the deal - I'm still not sure what I'd do if I was an MP - but here is an MP who made a promise to the voters of Eastbourne and he's actually going to keep it.
The Lib Dems are neither liberal nor democratic.
"...here is an MP who made a promise to the voters...and he's actually going to keep it."
Hardly a good fit for the Conservative Party then, is he?
Perhaps not, but I was thinking he should go to them because it would wind up the Lib Dems no end.
Perhaps this is the limitation on sovereignty that so concerned Boris ?
Art 74 3. The United Kingdom shall ensure that cryptographic products that use classified cryptographic algorithms developed under the control of, and evaluated and approved by the Crypto Approval Authority of a Member State or of the United Kingdom, which have been approved by the Union by the end of the transition period and that are present in the United Kingdom, are not transferred to a third country.
No selling of any classified codebreaking devices to Russia...
He should just **** off and join the Tories. No really, that's actually what he should do.
Why is that? It's not like even the LDs had a 100% remain voting electorate.
I'm aware of that, though I doubt Cable et al are. No, he's clearly in the wrong party. I might not be particularly keen on the deal - I'm still not sure what I'd do if I was an MP - but here is an MP who made a promise to the voters of Eastbourne and he's actually going to keep it.
The Lib Dems are neither liberal nor democratic.
"...here is an MP who made a promise to the voters...and he's actually going to keep it."
Hardly a good fit for the Conservative Party then, is he?
Perhaps not, but I was thinking he should go to them because it would wind up the Lib Dems no end.
Ah, I see. I misinterpreted your original post.
I suspect the LDs will abstain, when push comes to shove.
NOTING that nothing in this Protocol prevents the United Kingdom from ensuring unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of the United Kingdom's internal market
Perhaps this is the limitation on sovereignty that so concerned Boris ?
Art 74 3. The United Kingdom shall ensure that cryptographic products that use classified cryptographic algorithms developed under the control of, and evaluated and approved by the Crypto Approval Authority of a Member State or of the United Kingdom, which have been approved by the Union by the end of the transition period and that are present in the United Kingdom, are not transferred to a third country.
No selling of any classified codebreaking devices to Russia...
I think this is about Galileo, the encryption for the secure military part of Galileo was developed by GCHQ.
Corbyn could just simply never negotiate a future relationship, and by virtue of ARTICLE 6
Single customs territory, movement of goods
1. Until the future relationship becomes applicable, a single customs territory between the Union and the United Kingdom shall be established ("the single customs territory"). Accordingly, Northern Ireland is in the same customs territory as Great Britain.
We are in his preferred "permanent customs union".
NOTING that nothing in this Protocol prevents the United Kingdom from ensuring unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of the United Kingdom's internal market
Depending on your definition of "Border".
Northern Irish producers will be subject to SM rules that Northern English producers will not.
To be fair, if Richard Tyndall had been doing the negotiating we would not be in the mess we are in now. Unlike David Davis, Dominic Raab, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries and the rest of the Buccaneers he actually understands the issues because he's pent some time trying to understand them. The kind of Brexit he proposed would have united the country, done very little damage and allowed everyone to move on. Unfortunately, instead of tacking tot he centre when she took over May turned right. Article 50 was invoked, the red lines were drawn and thus the rest was always going to happen.
Richard Tyndall wants an open borders single market Brexit, not sure many working class Leavers would have been happy with that
The Brexit deal should always have been about what would get most support in the country, not what one set of Leave voters wanted.
Without that set of Leave voters Remain would have won
So what? We all have to live with the consequences of Brexit, not just working class Leave voters.
Yes and it was the consequences of their vote which got Leave to 52%
This is a rather illogical argument.
One could just as easily say it was the 42% of Leave voters who were happy with EEA status who pushed the Leave vote up to 52%. Without either side you would not have had Brexit. So that accepted you then have to proceed on what is likely to be the most acceptable deal to the widest number of people. Which clearly was not a hard Brexit nor necessarily one which ended FoM. Instead May chose to put the whole thing at risk by supporting a position which only had the support of perhaps 23% of the electorate and which bound us to decisions that would make Brexit immeasurably harder.
Comments
Dear Britain, do you want to be...
1) Shot in the Head
2) Shot in the balls
3) Not shot**** (Option (3) whilst technically possible, you really couldn't handle it, so we removed it from you to protect your democratic rights.)
https://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8
And when he's walking a dark road
At night or strolling through the park
Fear of the Boris
So, are you big enough to apologise here, publicly, for calling me a liar?
And largely, if you believe Labour, because the withdrawal agreement covering the temporary period until a proper trade deal is agreed doesn’t include provision for a permanent customs union.
Now somebody in favour of no deal may not mind that, but for somebody to be advocating that whilst asserting no deal will be a disaster and will be avoided at all costs...
Nor do I agree with all that Richard North says. But his basic position of a Brexit based on independence not on curtailing immigration seems very sound. He is still a cantankerous old sod who doesn't play well with others though.
https://www.ft.com/content/73ac4a5c-d83f-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8
You may have misjudged Barnier.
I will leave you to it.
May's Deal respects the Leave vote as far as possible including working class Leavers immigration concerns while still enabling a Deal with the EU to protect the economy
Thankfully her husband is a good bloke who took it in the right way otherwise things might have got a little difficult....
Though even I would prefer EFTA to No Deal or Remain if May's Deal is voted down
I do not wish to return to that style of debate so want to say sorry straight away.
Until next time I suspect when I will probably do the same thing again. PB really is very bad for me.
In fairness, he was spot on with what to do about Brexit. He proposed EEA single market from Day One. Had we done that, we’d all be getting on with our lives by now.
Thank you
Welcome back sir.
So no, not 4%.
Although given that no poll actually identified the final result I suspect that 42% misses out a lot of voters where immigration was the defining reason for their vote.
54 Tory MPs now declared against the deal, not including all those who resigned last week. Let's call it a nice round -60 for May, shall we?
Nuff said.
And I'm sure Olly Robbins has been sure to keep May informed so she knows exactly what the EU has decided for us and why.
https://twitter.com/stevedouble/status/1064589443921838080
Is that another letter heading for Sir Graham?
By way of derogation from paragraph 1, the host State shall not be obliged to confer
entitlement to social assistance during periods of residence on the basis of Article 6 or point (b) of Article 14(4) of Directive 2004/38/EC, nor shall it be obliged, prior to a person's acquisition of the right of permanent residence in accordance with Article 15 of this Agreement, to grant maintenance aid for studies, including vocational training, consisting in student grants or student loans to persons other than workers, self-employed persons, persons who retain such status or to members of their families.
In fact, the lie is a major part of the reason I reluctantly voted for remain: it was clear that the two different visions of leave could not be reconciled, especially wrt major factors such as immigration.
Art 51 - 3. By way of derogation from paragraph 2 and from Article 15 of Council Directive 2008/9/EC1,refund applications that relate to VAT which was paid in a Member State by a taxable person established in the United Kingdom, or which was paid in the United Kingdom by a taxable person established in a Member State, shall be submitted under the conditions of that Directive at the latest on 31 March 2021.
Now, someone is bound to say how things have gone have proven it was incorrect to go with May, but the point still stands that a remainer supporting a harder stance was deemed acceptable, therefore it was certainly possible, and admitted by harder leavers to be possible, for a remainer to have done so.
Art 74 3. The United Kingdom shall ensure that cryptographic products that use classified
cryptographic algorithms developed under the control of, and evaluated and approved by the Crypto Approval Authority of a Member State or of the United Kingdom, which have been approved by the Union by the end of the transition period and that are present in the United Kingdom, are not transferred to a third country.
No selling of any classified codebreaking devices to Russia...
The Lib Dems are neither liberal nor democratic.
Hardly a good fit for the Conservative Party then, is he?
I suspect the LDs will abstain, when push comes to shove.
NOTING that nothing in this Protocol prevents the United Kingdom from ensuring unfettered
market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of the United Kingdom's internal market
Single customs territory, movement of goods
1. Until the future relationship becomes applicable, a single customs territory between the Union and the United Kingdom shall be established ("the single customs territory"). Accordingly, Northern Ireland is in the same customs territory as Great Britain.
We are in his preferred "permanent customs union".
Northern Irish producers will be subject to SM rules that Northern English producers will not.
One could just as easily say it was the 42% of Leave voters who were happy with EEA status who pushed the Leave vote up to 52%. Without either side you would not have had Brexit. So that accepted you then have to proceed on what is likely to be the most acceptable deal to the widest number of people. Which clearly was not a hard Brexit nor necessarily one which ended FoM. Instead May chose to put the whole thing at risk by supporting a position which only had the support of perhaps 23% of the electorate and which bound us to decisions that would make Brexit immeasurably harder.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46261059