If you gave Davis the benefit of the doubt, maybe he expects no deal (despite the name) to be the backstop to the WA, thereby giving us a transition and an opportunity to negotiate Super Canada.
If you gave Davis the benefit of the doubt, maybe he expects no deal (despite the name) to be the backstop to the WA, thereby giving us a transition and an opportunity to negotiate Super Canada.
May's deal has a transition period, the final deal is very much up for grabs after that. The backstop is customs union without single market for GB so far as I can tell - not something the EU would like us to be in for too long.
If you gave Davis the benefit of the doubt, maybe he expects no deal (despite the name) to be the backstop to the WA, thereby giving us a transition and an opportunity to negotiate Super Canada.
May's deal has a transition period, the final deal is very much up for grabs after that. The backstop is customs union without single market for GB so far as I can tell - not something the EU would like us to be in for too long.
Well you know that and I know that Pulpstar - I was just trying to put Davis' best foot forward as he seems incapable of splitting the WA and the long term partnership up in his head.
Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.
I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.
Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right.
Not for those of us with shares in May's survival till year end it isn't !
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right.
Not for those of us with shares in May's survival till year end it isn't !
She'd probably remain leader in the meantime, though.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
Have they claimed that? I think they've just ignored it, and hoped no-one would notice.
Of all the possible futures being considered, the one where Boris Johnson takes over as PM from Theresa May is one of the most improbable. He's not up and coming, he hasn't got an image of experience and competence, a lot of people would be pleased if the last thing they did in politics was to ensure he didn't get the job, and he'd never get past the "War Book 2". (Disclosure: he's the only one of the main possible contenders for the Tory leadership I'm red on, but I'm very happy with that.)
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right.
Not for those of us with shares in May's survival till year end it isn't !
She'd probably remain leader in the meantime, though.
Yes but best to string out and delay that vote as long as possible. Hopefully they'll be plenty of time for debate as well as amendments being attempted to be put forward. Bercow should oblige us on that front I'd hope ?
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
Have they claimed that? I think they've just ignored it.
Not in the last few weeks but it was a common claim at the beginning of the year.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view. Not in that they have been not very accommodating (of course they fight hard in a negotiation), but because I think their tactics have contributed to making a deal less likely and their official position is they want a deal.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
You don't fight stupid with more stupid. Unless you're on Question Time I suppose.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown. Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view. Not in that they have been not very accommodating, but because I think it made a deal less likely and their official position is they want a deal.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
I think you are right. Hence my reluctant support for the Deal.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
Time to start arresting Leavers for treason.
Time to start arresting Remainers calling for the arrest of the majority.
I’ve always made the distinction between those who voted Leave and those who said it would easy, that we held all the aces and there was only sunlit uplands to Brexit.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotiate a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
On day one, there wouldn’t. We would soon have to agree terms to avoid one though, and we’d be in a weaker negotiating position.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.
I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.
Just for fun I would be interested on polling between a JRM Tory party and a Corbyn led Labour party!
I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.
I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
As the head of the CBI said earlier in this Country we have zero employment yet politicians from all sides are willing to put this at risk just for some mad political dogma/posturing.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
He probably will not be feeling so smart if that happens, no. It might happen. I don't see how that helps us in our present predicament, however, as framed by Tory rebels and Labour, that Barnier and co will change things up.
It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.
I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.
Just for fun I would be interested on polling between a JRM Tory party and a Corbyn led Labour party!
I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.
I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
I think I vote for the Moggster in that scenario, then X the Labour box in blood at the next GE if they get someone more sensible to lead. It's truly an awful choice though.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown. Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
Davis should be writing to thank Gina Miller that May can't just get on a plane to Brussels with her signing pen....
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
Davis should be writing to thank Gina Miller that May can't just get on a plane to Brussels with her signing pen....
Very important case, that, and a worthy one whichever side people fell in the Brexit divide.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
It is of course worrying that one of these people will be negotiating the final deal. I would go for Rudd then, um, then...er...and...hmm...ah....Hunt perhaps.
I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.
Just for fun I would be interested on polling between a JRM Tory party and a Corbyn led Labour party!
I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.
I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
What a gruesome game of "would you rather..."
I refuse to contemplate that I, together with the country, might soon be confronted with that choice.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown. Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
Labour obviously thinks if anyone can, it can
If the Brexiteers think May's deal is a capitulation, they ain't seen nothing yet.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
I wonder what price the EU would extract for agreeing to revocation.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
On day one, there wouldn’t. We would soon have to agree terms to avoid one though, and we’d be in a weaker negotiating position.
The stronger position would be the side that cared less. Not sure where that would lie - UK or Eire population-wise.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
"View: The oil price is now controlled by just three men
OPEC has lost what control of the oil market it ever had. The actions (or tweets) of three men — President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman — will determine the course of oil prices in 2019 and beyond. But of course they each want different things."
Another public school educated Thames Valley Tory is the last thing theTories need. None of those 6 is particularly worthwhile. All blow with the wind and none has a worthwhile track record. They badly need new talent from the back benches untarnished by the failures of the last few years.
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
I'm glad to see some are trying to make a decision on the deal rather than avoid one, well done him.
Davis should be writing to thank Gina Miller that May can't just get on a plane to Brussels with her signing pen....
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.
Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
Is it mad to think that once EU pretty much agree deal, May will announce that firm commitment to 'no new referendum' was a necessary ruse to get EU concentrating on what to negotiate if we do leave. Had referendum been announced before EU would give bad terms to persuade us to stay, so ruse of saying no new referendum was necessary. Once a deal of some sort has been negotiated, she can now say the public's information has changed on what brexit deal will be then the public should get a new say on what is to happen.
May has form for this sort of thing, but that didn't work out too well last time.
The people this would really annoy are those saying 'get on with it' but that seems to me like saying 'don't want a new referendum because we might lose'. That seems like it should be easy to marginalise as trying to do something against current will of the people.
Not sure if this would be seen as coup for May, or more like snatching respite from jaws of defeat, or something else? (Probably more like politically impossible for reasons I can't see, so feel free to enlighten me.)
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
They have gone stark, staring mad. It's like all the Brexiters have gone to school camp, have had 10 nights without sleep, and then been told to cross a river using only twigs and some baler twine. They've lost all powers of rational thought.
Is it mad to think that once EU pretty much agree deal, May will announce that firm commitment to 'no new referendum' was a necessary ruse to get EU concentrating on what to negotiate if we do leave. Had referendum been announced before EU would give bad terms to persuade us to stay, so ruse of saying no new referendum was necessary. Once a deal of some sort has been negotiated, she can now say the public's information has changed on what brexit deal will be then the public should get a new say on what is to happen.
May has form for this sort of thing, but that didn't work out too well last time.
The people this would really annoy are those saying 'get on with it' but that seems to me like saying 'don't want a new referendum because we might lose'. That seems like it should be easy to marginalise as trying to do something against current will of the people.
Not sure if this would be seen as coup for May, or more like snatching respite from jaws of defeat, or something else? (Probably more like politically impossible for reasons I can't see, so feel free to enlighten me.)
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.
Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
If the Brexit loons (and the non-Brexit loons) could cool their ardour for 5 mins they could bring themselves to admit that (a) we need a transition period and (b) the NI situation requires something akin to a backstop, then they could suck May's deal up, and Brexit will then happen with a modicum of national pride intact. The May deal is the only game in town - if we end up on the bonfire the only people we can rightly blame are MPs.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
I'm not sure, the EU seem to have annoyed Spain somewhat. So the talk of complete capitulation is overblown. Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
Labour obviously thinks if anyone can, it can
If the Brexiteers think May's deal is a capitulation, they ain't seen nothing yet.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.
Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
If the Brexit loons (and the non-Brexit loons) could cool their ardour for 5 mins they could bring themselves to admit that (a) we need a transition period and (b) the NI situation requires something akin to a backstop, then they could suck May's deal up, and Brexit will then happen with a modicum of national pride intact. The May deal is the only game in town - if we end up on the bonfire the only people we can rightly blame are MPs.
But a deal without a guaranteed route the UK Govt. can itself trigger is no deal. And so we get No Deal.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
Amazing how quickly things change. Not long ago the Leavers were building giant effigies of Theresa on the cliffs of Dover. Now they seem more inclined to throw her off.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Labour will abstain in a second vote. For the first vote I suspect they would vote against the plan - as its the best approach to ramp up the pressure and see what gives / blows
But a deal without a guaranteed route the UK Govt. can itself trigger is no deal. And so we get No Deal.
Which, of course, we can trigger.
We can't get no deal - I will say this right up until we get, er, no deal.
But modern day, pragmatic, no alternative, politics means that we will get a deal and the backstop will be a part of it. Perhaps all we will get will be the backstop now there's a thought.
I'm so glad no one is peddling simple solutions to this anymore, we've come so far in two years.
It is a stupid comment by Davis but no more dumb than the EU trying to claim that, in the event of No Deal on the WA, there would be no hard border in Ireland.
The EU have not gone about things in a particularly good manner in my view.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
The backstop. Barnier thought he was so clever manoeuvering the UK government so they went blundering into his Northern Ireland elephant trap.
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
Barnier's CV will has as its final entry:
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
How did such deluded people as the above posters end up steering this country onto the pyre of self-immolation?
When May's deal fails, it will be the fault of the backstop. The backstop was Barnier's idea. So it'll be perfectly fair to pin a chunk of the blame on him and his desire to try to be too clever for his own good.
Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
If the Brexit loons (and the non-Brexit loons) could cool their ardour for 5 mins they could bring themselves to admit that (a) we need a transition period and (b) the NI situation requires something akin to a backstop, then they could suck May's deal up, and Brexit will then happen with a modicum of national pride intact. The May deal is the only game in town - if we end up on the bonfire the only people we can rightly blame are MPs.
But a deal without a guaranteed route the UK Govt. can itself trigger is no deal. And so we get No Deal.
Which, of course, we can trigger.
Would that I could be confident such common sense prevails
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Labour will abstain in a second vote. For the first vote I suspect they would vote against the plan - as its the best approach to ramp up the pressure and see what gives / blows
Abstaining would make less sense than voting against. Either the deal is terrible for the country or it isn't (isn't in this context could include 'bad, but better than any other option').
I appreciate that tweet quite a lot. It's extreme, but is open that rejecting the deal might lead to a number of different outcomes, not just someone's preferred, mythical outcome.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO
Tories own BREXIT
BTW Vince is playing with himself isnt he.
Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Labour will abstain in a second vote. For the first vote I suspect they would vote against the plan - as its the best approach to ramp up the pressure and see what gives / blows
Abstaining would make less sense than voting against. Either the deal is terrible for the country or it isn't (isn't in this context could include 'bad, but better than any other option').
I appreciate that tweet quite a lot. It's extreme, but is open that rejecting the deal might lead to a number of different outcomes, not just someone's preferred, mythical outcome.
It's amazing how collectively the ERG/Brexiteers have lost their mind that NO BREXIT is better.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO
Tories own BREXIT
Why do you only seem to care who 'owns' Brexit. Labour have the ability to categorically prevent no deal. There is an argument that they should not vote for the deal in order to prevent that because other no deal options are available (how realistically is up for debate) but screwing the Tories, or having them screw themselves, should not matter in the slightest. If it was deal or no deal Labour will be crucial, and whoever puts them in that position Labour will be accountable for their own choice.
At present they are rejecting the choice as being that binary, which certainly makes it simpler for them. But the Tories getting all or most blame hardly matters here.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO
Tories own BREXIT
BTW Vince is playing with himself isnt he.
Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
He certainly is, I've had to quit the party over his reckless threat to vote down the deal. Which is a shame because I the local Lib Dems round here are a great bunch.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO
Tories own BREXIT
BTW Vince is playing with himself isnt he.
Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
He certainly is, I've had to quit the party over his reckless threat to vote down the deal. Which is a shame because I the local Lib Dems round here are a great bunch.
My guess is that LD MPs will end up voting for the deal.
The great irony would be if the courts rule we can revoke Article 50.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotaite a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
For precisely this reason the ECJ are going to rule it is only revocable by agreement.
Well of course they are. Another bit of stupidity by Remainers, putting their faith in an option that was never going to fly.
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
They need to go with Mickey Fab's plan. It is the last chance to save a hard as nails Brexit. Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
Mickey Fab's Plan. Get May out when it fails in the House. Then install Geoffrey Cox, for a couple of years. Have a far less febrile contest before a 2022 election.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Corbyn won't have the brains to work out that he should abstain. It's 4D chess that's being played by the EU and May here, Corbyn is playing Tiddlywinks.
Grand Master stuff from Jezza IMO
Tories own BREXIT
Why do you only seem to care who 'owns' Brexit. Labour have the ability to categorically prevent no deal. There is an argument that they should not vote for the deal in order to prevent that because other no deal options are available (how realistically is up for debate) but screwing the Tories, or having them screw themselves, should not matter in the slightest. If it was deal or no deal Labour will be crucial, and whoever puts them in that position Labour will be accountable for their own choice.
At present they are rejecting the choice as being that binary, which certainly makes it simpler for them. But the Tories getting all or most blame hardly matters here.
Rubbish. The Tories themselves are saying that a better deal can be achieved so why on earth wouldn't Labour advance the argument that if there is a better deal to be had, they are the ones who should be charged to achieve it?
Comments
Then invoke it again.
Call the first Brexit a mulligan.
Meanwhile David Davis is calling for a Commons vote on May's proposed WA before she meets EU27 leaders. He's right, and I hope the opposition parties join the call.
I am not alone in the Cons party to think like this but I appreciate that there are a lot of complete fkin idiots out there who would love JRM or Boris in place.
He’s either very thick or a shit Manchurian candidate.
However that just makes our own beliefs they suddenly will go about things differently, at a desperate last stage, for Labour or new Tory PM, a pile of shash.
You don't fight stupid with more stupid. Unless you're on Question Time I suppose.
Almost as if neither side gets everything it wants in a negotiation.
So a new PM can revoke the current one - then issue a new Article 50 notice, with a new two year window to negotiate a deal that isn't as shite as May's....
Will he be feeling so smart when it's the same backstop that means the UK parliament rejects the entire deal?
TWO YEARS of hard work down the pan so Barnier could feel smug and superior to the British negotiators.
I personally think Johnson or JRM would be a terrible PM, just like I think Corbyn would be disastrous. I used to be a member of the Tories but decided my life was moving in a direction that membership of the Tories had become irrelevant.
I do think Hunt or Rudd as leader is the only viable option in the short to medium term for the Tories. I was amused by the story yesterday about David Cameron coming back as leader as advocated by one of his former minions. I actually wonder if the Tories are at a point where a replacement party with similar qualities without the Eurosceptics is required.
"and screwed up Brexit, so that we all had a No Deal."
Led by an impartial panel of judges: Gary Lineker, James O'Brien and Joanne Rowling.
Glad now, that I didn't throw my Amber Rudd betting slip in the bin.
https://twitter.com/josephmdurso/status/1064525632187625472
For all the shite that ERG are getting right now, they look like strategic titans compared to Remainers.
I refuse to contemplate that I, together with the country, might soon be confronted with that choice.
Edit: Hardcore Brexiteers on Twitter seem to be worried with Mickey Fab's plan that the vote might actually get through with Labour help. An unfounded worry right now I think.
https://twitter.com/LawDavF/status/1064497069426135040
OPEC has lost what control of the oil market it ever had. The actions (or tweets) of three men — President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman — will determine the course of oil prices in 2019 and beyond. But of course they each want different things."
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/view-the-oil-price-is-now-controlled-by-just-three-men/articleshow/66680773.cms
Anyway, they'll be melting him down by the end of the week. Once he's finished counting the DExEU paperclips.
Also, May for agreeing to it. May should NEVER have agreed to the backstop. It was the one moment that doomed this deal more than all of her other failures combined.
May has form for this sort of thing, but that didn't work out too well last time.
The people this would really annoy are those saying 'get on with it' but that seems to me like saying 'don't want a new referendum because we might lose'. That seems like it should be easy to marginalise as trying to do something against current will of the people.
Not sure if this would be seen as coup for May, or more like snatching respite from jaws of defeat, or something else? (Probably more like politically impossible for reasons I can't see, so feel free to enlighten me.)
I think that must be simply name recognition. Can't see the (Parliamentary) party backing Boris.
I really can't see it getting through without a Labour 3-line whip to abstain though. No sign of that - yet. But it's what I'd do if I was Labour. Let the Tories tear themselves to bits over "their" Brexit.
Golden rule of Tory elections.
Which, of course, we can trigger.
But modern day, pragmatic, no alternative, politics means that we will get a deal and the backstop will be a part of it. Perhaps all we will get will be the backstop now there's a thought.
Worboys to stay in jail.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/19/john-worboys-must-stay-in-prison-says-parole-board
Tories own BREXIT
Even has one of his handful of MPs backing May Fookup
At present they are rejecting the choice as being that binary, which certainly makes it simpler for them. But the Tories getting all or most blame hardly matters here.