I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
We hold all the aces, they need us more than we need them, and no deal is better than a bad deal.
I don't personally agree with any of those points, but I find it odd you are using it to mock those who do, since you agree with the last one as well (on the basis a short sharp shock from it is a necessary thing), as do a great many people, remainer and leaver, which is why they come close to outright lying while saying how bad no deal would be, while being perfectly content to risk it. Indeed, one of the few people who does not believe that last one is May, and she gets a lot of shit for it, deservedly or not.
Yes. Probably both, definitely Labour. Perhaps I'm cynical but it doesn't look like it is falling apart, just that more are noticing they are claiming to be all things on the issue. But if no one is leaving the party over it then it's immaterial.
Labour is fortunate that it is not in power, and is very unlikely to be in power before March 2019. As such, its internal contradictions on Brexit policy don't really matter. That may change once it does matter - in an election or, even more, in office - but for the time being, as long as they're largely politically powerless on the issue, they'll get away with it.
Indeed so. Tories clinging to the haphazard nature of Labour's positioning are really pinning a lot more on it than they should.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
We hold all the aces, they need us more than we need them, and no deal is better than a bad deal.
I don't personally agree with any of those points, but I find it odd you are using it to mock those who do, since you agree with the last one as well (on the basis a short sharp shock from it is a necessary thing), as do a great many people, remainer and leaver, which is why they come close to outright lying while saying how bad no deal would be, while being perfectly content to risk it. Indeed, one of the few people who does not believe that last one is May, and she gets a lot of shit for it, deservedly or not.
The Democrats will be encouraged by winning governorships and Senate and House races in key midwest states like Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania but in 2020 they will need a candidate who appeals to them too. Scranton and rustbelt raised Biden or the populist Sanders are more likely to do so than the coastal elite Harris and Warren
The Democrats will be encouraged by winning governorships and Senate and House races in key midwest states like Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania but in 2020 they will need a candidate who appeals to them too. Scranton and rustbelt raised Biden or the populist Sanders are more likely to do so than the coastal elite Harris and Warren
Biden as candidate with Beto as VP would be the ultimate candidacy that would cover all wings of the party, but I can’t see the Dems allowing an all-male ticket.
Plus Beto really needs to become a Senator or Governor first
Plus in a delicious irony IScotland wouldn't have been in the EU nor the single market and customs unions, so we'd have insisted on inspections check.
There's a danger that iScotland would have lowered standards.
Well, yes, but that isn't splitting up Scotland - or saying "there must not be a hard border between England and Scotland or else there'll be a hard border between England and Scotland."
I suppose Faslane might have been interesting - but that would have been our problem, not their's.
It's not the exit they are making difficult, it is the post-exit relationship they are playing hard-ball over.
Indeed so - and that's DESPITE the fact that we've already agreed to pay them megabucks to which they have no clear legal right. 'Bad faith' describes it very well, but they are clearly over-playing their hand.
As for those criticising Mrd May for triggering Article 50 too early, it's an absurd criticism. She waited nearly a year, for heaven's sake, and repeatedly requested the EU to open preliminary negotiations to discuss the future relationship . They refused point-blank, so what would have been gained by delaying yet further?
Getting our ducks in a row with non-EU relationships.
Nothing much could (or indeed can now) be done on that without knowing the shape of our final relationship with the EU.
Preparations should have been made on the basis of no deal, the government would be in a much better position now if they had.
Plus in a delicious irony IScotland wouldn't have been in the EU nor the single market and customs unions, so we'd have insisted on inspections check.
There's a danger that iScotland would have lowered standards.
Well, yes, but that isn't splitting up Scotland - or saying "there must not be a hard border between England and Scotland or else there'll be a hard border between England and Scotland."
I suppose Faslane might have been interesting - but that would have been our problem, not their's.
I could publish my treatise why an iScotland's plans for the Bank of England being the lender of last resort would have been Scotland's biggest mistake since the Darien scheme.
On the "The EU are trying to take a chunk of our country" thing - all we have to do is resolve (our own) Northern Ireland question without relying on key elements of our mutual EU membership with Ireland (as in the various freedoms of movement, which we've already said we don't want overall).
That's the only reason for the Northern Ireland backstop: we just have to sort out a replacement Good Friday agreement without such free movement across the border (treating it as an external border, which is what it should be when we leave) and get full agreement to it from all parties without restarting the Troubles.
Without that, this would all be much simpler - but it really is our problem rather than someone else's. It's fair enough that another party (Ireland) who hasn't chosen to shake the kaleidoscope doesn't want a negative outcome for themselves.
It's not the exit they are making difficult, it is the post-exit relationship they are playing hard-ball over.
Indeed so - and that's DESPITE the fact that we've already agreed to pay them megabucks to which they have no clear legal right. 'Bad faith' describes it very well, but they are clearly over-playing their hand.
As for those criticising Mrd May for triggering Article 50 too early, it's an absurd criticism. She waited nearly a year, for heaven's sake, and repeatedly requested the EU to open preliminary negotiations to discuss the future relationship . They refused point-blank, so what would have been gained by delaying yet further?
Getting our ducks in a row with non-EU relationships.
Nothing much could (or indeed can now) be done on that without knowing the shape of our final relationship with the EU.
Preparations should have been made on the basis of no deal, the government would be in a much better position now if they had.
But many Leavers said No Deal was Project Fear, they'd have stymied the government for even proposing such an action.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
We hold all the aces, they need us more than we need them, and no deal is better than a bad deal.
I don't personally agree with any of those points, but I find it odd you are using it to mock those who do, since you agree with the last one as well (on the basis a short sharp shock from it is a necessary thing), as do a great many people, remainer and leaver, which is why they come close to outright lying while saying how bad no deal would be, while being perfectly content to risk it. Indeed, one of the few people who does not believe that last one is May, and she gets a lot of shit for it, deservedly or not.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Is funny reading the comments from August/September 2014.
The desire might have been there (though I'd have hoped not) but can anyone envisage London's negotiators suddenly turning into good negotiators when we've now seen what they're capable of?
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Is funny reading the comments from August/September 2014.
The desire might have been there (though I'd have hoped not) but can anyone envisage London's negotiators suddenly turning into good negotiators when we've now seen what they're capable of?
Good evening, everybody.
In that instance, RUK would have held all the aces just the way the EU does with us.
We're the supplicants now, just like iScotland would be.
It's not the exit they are making difficult, it is the post-exit relationship they are playing hard-ball over.
Indeed so - and that's DESPITE the fact that we've already agreed to pay them megabucks to which they have no clear legal right. 'Bad faith' describes it very well, but they are clearly over-playing their hand.
As for those criticising Mrd May for triggering Article 50 too early, it's an absurd criticism. She waited nearly a year, for heaven's sake, and repeatedly requested the EU to open preliminary negotiations to discuss the future relationship . They refused point-blank, so what would have been gained by delaying yet further?
Getting our ducks in a row with non-EU relationships.
Nothing much could (or indeed can now) be done on that without knowing the shape of our final relationship with the EU.
Preparations should have been made on the basis of no deal, the government would be in a much better position now if they had.
But many Leavers said No Deal was Project Fear, they'd have stymied the government for even proposing such an action.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
We might very well behave like that, but I think the need for defence co-operation with an independent Scotland would make that unwise.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
The point remains that that we might well act the same way as the EU if the boot were on the other foot doesn't magically make those actions good, or the most effective at achieving their own aims.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Is funny reading the comments from August/September 2014.
The desire might have been there (though I'd have hoped not) but can anyone envisage London's negotiators suddenly turning into good negotiators when we've now seen what they're capable of?
If there wasn't so much attention being paid to Brexit by the world, people would be noticing a very sharp slowdown in the EU. At least we've got a reason for the slowdown here, companies are putting off investment because the government have yet to make clear what the situation is going to be in march re no deal. There seems to be no real reason for the EU slowdown but no one is asking questions because all the attention is on brexit.
I would have thought the trade war between USA and China was a good reason for the slowdown...
From an export perspective, the EU is the world's biggest exporter - by a large margin - of capital goods. That is, the things that make things.
China has bought enormous quantities of German machines for its factories. It's bought Siemens power stations, and Spanish or German wind turbines.
Because domestic demand remains weak in the EU*, it's super sensitive to a slowdown in external demand - particularly from China.
Now, a smart German government would recognise this, and attempt to stimulate domestic demand. Unfortunately, we don't have a smart German government**.
* Or, to put it another way, because savings rates remain at elevated/excessive levels ** If the German household savings rate were to return to its 50 year average over the next five years, it would add almost one percent annually to GDP growth
It's not the exit they are making difficult, it is the post-exit relationship they are playing hard-ball over.
Indeed so - and that's DESPITE the fact that we've already agreed to pay them megabucks to which they have no clear legal right. 'Bad faith' describes it very well, but they are clearly over-playing their hand.
As for those criticising Mrd May for triggering Article 50 too early, it's an absurd criticism. She waited nearly a year, for heaven's sake, and repeatedly requested the EU to open preliminary negotiations to discuss the future relationship . They refused point-blank, so what would have been gained by delaying yet further?
Getting our ducks in a row with non-EU relationships.
Nothing much could (or indeed can now) be done on that without knowing the shape of our final relationship with the EU.
Preparations should have been made on the basis of no deal, the government would be in a much better position now if they had.
But many Leavers said No Deal was Project Fear, they'd have stymied the government for even proposing such an action.
The time to kick that off was before invoking A50. At that point, May was still riding high, she easily had the political capital to do it
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
There's plenty of despair (though mine is more about the partisan incompetence that is so prevalent at the very top), but so much outrage takes too much energy. We're in the middle of darkness induced apathy right now.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
We might very well behave like that, but I think the need for defence co-operation with an independent Scotland would make that unwise.
Unless Scotland becomes Putin's best mate that is not imperative
If there wasn't so much attention being paid to Brexit by the world, people would be noticing a very sharp slowdown in the EU. At least we've got a reason for the slowdown here, companies are putting off investment because the government have yet to make clear what the situation is going to be in march re no deal. There seems to be no real reason for the EU slowdown but no one is asking questions because all the attention is on brexit.
I would have thought the trade war between USA and China was a good reason for the slowdown...
From an export perspective, the EU is the world's biggest exporter - by a large margin - of capital goods. That is, the things that make things.
China has bought enormous quantities of German machines for its factories. It's bought Siemens power stations, and Spanish or German wind turbines.
Because domestic demand remains weak in the EU*, it's super sensitive to a slowdown in external demand - particularly from China.
Now, a smart German government would recognise this, and attempt to stimulate domestic demand. Unfortunately, we don't have a smart German government**.
* Or, to put it another way, because savings rates remain at elevated/excessive levels ** If the German household savings rate were to return to its 50 year average over the next five years, it would add almost one percent annually to GDP growth
How would Germany stimulate that demand (and don't say housing as a lot of the people I know are moving from Munich / Berlin to cheaper places as they can usually telecommute)..
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
The point remains that that we might well act the same way as the EU if the boot were on the other foot doesn't magically make those actions good, or the most effective at achieving their own aims.
That does not prevent them being the likeliest outcome
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
The point remains that that we might well act the same way as the EU if the boot were on the other foot doesn't magically make those actions good, or the most effective at achieving their own aims.
That does not prevent them being the likeliest outcome
I never said it didn't, in fact I said the opposite.
If there wasn't so much attention being paid to Brexit by the world, people would be noticing a very sharp slowdown in the EU. At least we've got a reason for the slowdown here, companies are putting off investment because the government have yet to make clear what the situation is going to be in march re no deal. There seems to be no real reason for the EU slowdown but no one is asking questions because all the attention is on brexit.
I would have thought the trade war between USA and China was a good reason for the slowdown...
From an export perspective, the EU is the world's biggest exporter - by a large margin - of capital goods. That is, the things that make things.
China has bought enormous quantities of German machines for its factories. It's bought Siemens power stations, and Spanish or German wind turbines.
Because domestic demand remains weak in the EU*, it's super sensitive to a slowdown in external demand - particularly from China.
Now, a smart German government would recognise this, and attempt to stimulate domestic demand. Unfortunately, we don't have a smart German government**.
* Or, to put it another way, because savings rates remain at elevated/excessive levels ** If the German household savings rate were to return to its 50 year average over the next five years, it would add almost one percent annually to GDP growth
How would Germany stimulate that demand (and don't say housing as a lot of the people I know are moving from Munich / Berlin to cheaper places as they can usually telecommute)..
Given they will run a significant budget surplus this year, the government could cut taxes or spend more. If they were to combine that with removing some of the subsidies on savings, that would have a big positive effect.
No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
But I thought the Union was a precious, noble thing based on shared history and culture, rather than the transient utilitarian EU? I'm shocked & disappointed.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
But I thought the Union was a precious, noble thing based on shared history and culture, rather than the transient utilitarian EU? I'm shocked & disappointed.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
Yet again your complete failure to understand monarchy and tradition not free market liberalism is the epitome of conservatism either if neither are socialism
All those conservatives in America love their monarch of course.
Don't be a numpty.
Trump is a nationalist not a conservative.
Conservatives in Australia, New Zealand and Canada and Japan are also all monarchist and conservatism arose in Europe in defence of the monarchy and landed classes, it was liberalism that arose from support for the free market and merchant classes
The USA is a Republic France is a Republic Germany is Republic
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
Calm down, I know Dave would have quit.
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Can anyone think of any franchise where the fourth or subsequent film was among the best? often, it can be an absolute shocker, following on from a very good third.
Batman Begins and subsequent films were better than the previous Batman movies.
"Brexit has cost you your strength! Victory has defeated you!"
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
We won't run out of food here in the boonies. Might be tricky in the cities of course. The living will doubtless envy the dead.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
We won't run out of food here in the boonies. Might be tricky in the cities of course. The living will doubtless envy the dead.
Jamie's Italian will take on a whole new meaning post Brexit. The signature dish will be liver served with a nice chianti.
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
Almost certainly Osborne or Hague. Probably the latter if he had stood.
More likely, the Tandridge & Redhill Co-Prosperity Sphere, whose shock troops will occupy Westerham in a pre-dawn raid.
Further north, the M25 will take on a new meaning as the new Surrey Empire erects toll booths at either end of the county and charges non-Surrey residents £25 to drive through the county. Within a month, income tax for Surrey Residents has been abolished and foreign tax exiles occupy properties in St George's Hill and Stoke D'Abernon vacated by those fleeing the new State for the relative safety of England.
Now that Arizona looks near-certain to be a Democrat win, and with very close results elsewhere and a good showing in the House and Governors' races, the overall picture for the Democrats does look rather better than it seemed to be in the immediate aftermath of the elections. Even so, it's not such a good result that the Democrats can conclude that voters as a whole are sick of Trump and the Republicans generally. Fairly neutral overall in terms of indicating whether Trump might get re-elected, I'd say.
Agreed. In particular don't be swayed by the total votes - the Dems now have a shedload of "wasted" votes in California and the mix of states voting was skewed to the Dems. The Dems wet dream is that the electorate as a whole will be a pissed off with Trump as they are themselves. But they are not yet to any great extent in the states that matter. The Left under-rated Reagan and Bush junior seeing them as thick, and paid for it. I sense the same patronizing tone about Trump. If his position does become dodgy, pretty sure he will cut and run and say that he has succeeded and so can retire
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
Osborne, Hague, or May would have probably succeeded Dave, all of whom would have done their best to keep the coalition together.
Scotland would have still sent MPs to Westminster in 2015 and that would have annoyed England and Wales especially if it was an SNP tsunami.
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
That's absurd. Dogs are so scrawny for the most part, not nearly enough to sustain through the Brexit hunger.
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
Cameron would have gone down as the worst PM since Lord North instead of the worst PM since Lord North two years later.
The coalition would have shattered, the Tories would have swung right, waved (what was left of) the Union Jack and proposed to leave the EU.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
The Tories won 329 out of 591 seats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland at General Election 2015, a majority of 67.
Most likely had Cameron resigned after Scotland voted for independence Osborne or Davis would have replaced them and won a majority in a 'screw the Scots' platform
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
Cameron would have gone down as the worst PM since Lord North instead of the worst PM since Lord North two years later.
The coalition would have shattered, the Tories would have swung right, waved (what was left of) the Union Jack and proposed to leave the EU.
He was not the worst PM since North. FFS, have you lot never heard of Lord Goderich, Lord Rosebery and Viscount Melbourne?
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
The Tories won 329 out of 591 seats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland at General Election 2015, a majority of 67.
Most likely had Cameron resigned after Scotland voted for independence Osborne or Davis would have replaced them and won a majority in a 'screw the Scots' platform
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
That's absurd. Dogs are so scrawny for the most part, not nearly enough to sustain through the Brexit hunger.
You've a sick mind. Dogs are good hunters. What on earth were you thinking! Get a couple of good retrievers and eat like a King. Or a pitbull and eat a king.
My cat will get me through the hunger. I am already planning mice and pigeon korma.
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
Actually, it's a counterfactual worth thinking about and a prospective entry on alternatehistory.com.
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
Osborne, Hague, or May would have probably succeeded Dave, all of whom would have done their best to keep the coalition together.
Scotland would have still sent MPs to Westminster in 2015 and that would have annoyed England and Wales especially if it was an SNP tsunami.
There was no Article 50 needed for Scotland, it could have declared independence immediately although talks on the divorce and future relationship would have taken time
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
That's absurd. Dogs are so scrawny for the most part, not nearly enough to sustain through the Brexit hunger.
You've a sick mind. Dogs are good hunters. What on earth were you thinking! Get a couple of good retrievers or a pitbull and eat like a King.
My cat will get me through the hunger. I am already planning mice and pigeon korma.
But if you have a dog a la the Aztecs, you can say korma's a bitch.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
Osborne, Hague, or May would have probably succeeded Dave, all of whom would have done their best to keep the coalition together.
Scotland would have still sent MPs to Westminster in 2015 and that would have annoyed England and Wales especially if it was an SNP tsunami.
Interesting, I find it hard to believe Scottish MPs would have remained as they were though those elected in 2010 would have served out their time.
I suppose constitutionally Scotland is still part of the UK but it seems odd to have an election with the newly independent State less than a year away. That would be one for the constitutional lawyers and the divorce negotiators.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
Yet again your complete failure to understand monarchy and tradition not free market liberalism is the epitome of conservatism either if neither are socialism
All those conservatives in America love their monarch of course.
Don't be a numpty.
Trump is a nationalist not a conservative.
Conservatives in Australia, New Zealand and Canada and Japan are also all monarchist and conservatism arose in Europe in defence of the monarchy and landed classes, it was liberalism that arose from support for the free market and merchant classes
The USA is a Republic France is a Republic Germany is Republic
Monarchy = jobs for life = Socialism!
That does not change the fact free market liberalism is not conservatism, indeed conservative parties have often supported tariffs and protectionism. Socialism is not conservatism but not is conservatism liberalism.
French and German conservative parties were for the monarchy before they became republics, Trump's Republicans are now a nationalist party not a conservative party and the Democrats are liberals
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
The Swans in Swansea?
The Cards in Cardiff.
The bangs in Bangor.
The worse in Worcester.
Arsenal is only a tube station. And as for Penistone and Shitterton...
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
But I thought the Union was a precious, noble thing based on shared history and culture, rather than the transient utilitarian EU? I'm shocked & disappointed.
It is but if Scots vote to end the Union it will have been their decision not an English one and the English will then inevitably have no desire whatsoever to do Scotland any favours
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
The Swans in Swansea?
The Cards in Cardiff.
The bangs in Bangor.
The worse in Worcester.
The Woke of Woking.
The duh of Dover.
The exes of Exeter (curiously that is where I broke up with my ex).
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
I fully expected the EU to behave like a bunch of arrogant arseholes during the Brexit negotiations. Just one of the reasons I voted Leave.
What baffles me is why Remainers want to stay in a union run by these tw@ts?
It's logical enough to remain within an organisation you don't like if you think they'll give you a hard time if you try to leave.
The EU are acting in the same way the UK would have acted towards Scotland once they voted for Independence.
Yes, we probably would have, and that would have been self defeating and wrong of us.
If Scotland votes for independence after No Deal we would behave in exactly the same way, we would also be able to hit them harder as they would have no single market access to England and not even a trade deal either. No Deal Brexit would damage us economically, we would seek to ensure Scots suffer even more from.a Yes vote in indyref2 (though the Scots in turn will try and claim North Sea Oil)
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
I would hope we would not, and that more rational heads would prevail in negotiations, but it does seem unlikely.
How can anyone read these threads and not be in a state of utter despair and outrage. Lazy nationalism has broken our country and could yet do worse.
We got a new puppy yesterday. I read these threads and marvel at the angst. We don't know what's going to happen; I doubt if even Barnier and May really know how things will turn out. No point in burning adrenaline on might-bes and oh-noes.
How lovely, a new puppy. A fountain of love, fun and companionship this year and source of food after Mar 29.
We won't run out of food here in the boonies. Might be tricky in the cities of course. The living will doubtless envy the dead.
On the positive side, the post Brexit Venezuelan diet will do wonders for the health of the nation.
If Scotland had voted for independence in September 2014 there would have been a general election in just over 8 months time.
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
Heaven help us, we're back to this nonsense.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
If that last bit comes true I'll seek independence from Surrey.
The People's Republic of Godalming?
The Dorks in Dorking
The Chefs in Sheffield.
Surely you can cook up a better pun than that. How about the Leaders in Leeds?
Comments
Ed Miliband has said a Labour government at Westminster would consider building border posts if Scotland voted for independence.
The Labour leader said he "would have to look at the issue of a border" if the Scottish government achieved its goal of a looser immigration policy.
His comments came during a lunch with journalists in Edinburgh.
Scottish ministers said border checks between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK would not be necessary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28053031
Plus in a delicious irony IScotland wouldn't have been in the EU nor the single market and customs unions, so we'd have insisted on inspections check.
There's a danger that iScotland would have lowered standards.
I'll get my coat...
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1004560302875336704
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jo-johnson-on-theresa-mays-brexit-plans-the-mood-is-shifting-against-the-pm-a3987621.html
I suppose Faslane might have been interesting - but that would have been our problem, not their's.
PS - Their's?
That's the only reason for the Northern Ireland backstop: we just have to sort out a replacement Good Friday agreement without such free movement across the border (treating it as an external border, which is what it should be when we leave) and get full agreement to it from all parties without restarting the Troubles.
Without that, this would all be much simpler - but it really is our problem rather than someone else's. It's fair enough that another party (Ireland) who hasn't chosen to shake the kaleidoscope doesn't want a negative outcome for themselves.
The English would swiftly turn from treating Scots as fellow Brits with friendly rivalry to yet more 'bloody foreigners' much as many Europeans will now treat us post Brexit
Good evening, everybody.
We're the supplicants now, just like iScotland would be.
The point remains that that we might well act the same way as the EU if the boot were on the other foot doesn't magically make those actions good, or the most effective at achieving their own aims.
China has bought enormous quantities of German machines for its factories. It's bought Siemens power stations, and Spanish or German wind turbines.
Because domestic demand remains weak in the EU*, it's super sensitive to a slowdown in external demand - particularly from China.
Now, a smart German government would recognise this, and attempt to stimulate domestic demand. Unfortunately, we don't have a smart German government**.
* Or, to put it another way, because savings rates remain at elevated/excessive levels
** If the German household savings rate were to return to its 50 year average over the next five years, it would add almost one percent annually to GDP growth
You saw how popular the prospect of sending English money to Scotland was in that election.
Now just imagine how popular it would be in the context of Scotland leaving.
If he's at the debates, which is no sure thing, then he will be enormously entertaining. And he will steal the limelight,
I doubt anyone is offering odds on him as Democratic nominee, but he might be worth £5, if you can get north of 250-1.
Not much of anybody else though.
Also, Mortgage Interest Tax Relief.
They love Abba too.
Had the Scots voted for independence, Cameron would have quit immediately - it's not good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party to lose part of the Union (the clue's in the name and the fixation on "our precious Union").
A new Conservative leader would have had to take on the negotiations for separation and then call a GE for the Rest of the UK (RUK is to me a channel covering horse racing) before May 2015. That would have been a very different GE to the one we experienced.
Now, apparently if we crash out of the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and probably Surrey will all vote to leave the United Kingdom which won't look good for the leader of the Conservative & Unionist Party.
France is a Republic
Germany is Republic
Monarchy = jobs for life = Socialism!
That's why I said the election would have been different in the context of Scotland leaving.
RIP
Who would have inherited had Cameron resigned - Boris wasn't an MP in 2014 - May ? Gove ? What would the internal Conservative response to all this have been?
Does the Coalition survive without Cameron or does the new Conservative leader end it and govern as a minority until the 2015 election?
As you say, it's a very different election - would the LD vote hold up, the notion of MIliband in Salmond's pocket wouldn't exist - what of UKIP and the referendum pledge ?
Further north, the M25 will take on a new meaning as the new Surrey Empire erects toll booths at either end of the county and charges non-Surrey residents £25 to drive through the county. Within a month, income tax for Surrey Residents has been abolished and foreign tax exiles occupy properties in St George's Hill and Stoke D'Abernon vacated by those fleeing the new State for the relative safety of England.
The Dems wet dream is that the electorate as a whole will be a pissed off with Trump as they are themselves. But they are not yet to any great extent in the states that matter. The Left under-rated Reagan and Bush junior seeing them as thick, and paid for it. I sense the same patronizing tone about Trump.
If his position does become dodgy, pretty sure he will cut and run and say that he has succeeded and so can retire
Scotland would have still sent MPs to Westminster in 2015 and that would have annoyed England and Wales especially if it was an SNP tsunami.
The coalition would have shattered, the Tories would have swung right, waved (what was left of) the Union Jack and proposed to leave the EU.
Most likely had Cameron resigned after Scotland voted for independence Osborne or Davis would have replaced them and won a majority in a 'screw the Scots' platform
My cat will get me through the hunger. I am already planning mice and pigeon korma.
I suppose constitutionally Scotland is still part of the UK but it seems odd to have an election with the newly independent State less than a year away. That would be one for the constitutional lawyers and the divorce negotiators.
Surrey serves one purpose; to put a decent distance between London and Sussex.
The bangs in Bangor.
The worse in Worcester.
French and German conservative parties were for the monarchy before they became republics, Trump's Republicans are now a nationalist party not a conservative party and the Democrats are liberals
And as for Penistone and Shitterton...
The exes of Exeter (curiously that is where I broke up with my ex).
After all, Scotland would have had the nukes in the negotiations.