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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another poll has CON getting much closer to LAB

SystemSystem Posts: 11,730
edited October 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another poll has CON getting much closer to LAB

Chart showing trend in TNS-BMRB polls this year pic.twitter.com/tWzf0RHUTf

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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,060
    edited October 2013
    Ignore - wrong sort of outcome.

    Lab maj nailed on. Cameron sat on this poll for 3 months and only releasing it now to divert from his role in the alleged framing of a Tory politician.

    Pigeon!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SAMPLING! WEIGHTING! MARGINALS!
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    Not excitable - just having a josh, a laugh and a giggle at the anti-reaction...

    You take it seriously if you wish...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    That's a colossal movement in 1 poll.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    THROBBING GREAT ASHCROFTS.

    Like
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    WATO leading on Plebgate......still no mention of Cameron's "suppression" of the CCTV.....Robinson "there's good reason to trust Mitchell's word, rather than the word of the police"....
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's all False Conscientiousness.

    These aren't real polls - they're outliers, figments of our imagination, caused by Global Warming, a reaction to The Right Wing Press...

    Have I missed anything here?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Skip Licker is on top form today

    Iain Duncan Smith MP @IDS_MP
    Ed Miliband has updated his Facebook pic.twitter.com/fW9NsRJlps
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    So two polls today putting the combined Tory/UKIP share on 47%, compared to 40% in 2010.
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    2015 is an election the Tories *should* win. The economy is undoubtedly on the up, Labour have a poor leader and not much of a message. However, at this stage it still looks like a Hung Parliament to me.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.

    As tim knows. He coincidentally left the country during the Labour Conference, when he might have had to say something supportive of the little Socialist.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html
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    Plato said:

    It's all False Conscientiousness.

    These aren't real polls - they're outliers, figments of our imagination, caused by Global Warming, a reaction to The Right Wing Press...

    Have I missed anything here?


    Lol, what's False Conscientiousness?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Anyone got a link to the raw data for the TNS poll from this month and the previous - I'd be fascinated to see it.
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    AndyJS said:

    So two polls today putting the combined Tory/UKIP share on 47%, compared to 40% in 2010.

    And yesterday's Gold standard had them on 42%. If you compare that to this stage in the last electoral cycle, they are actually down on where they were. Labour and LD are almost exactly the same.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    O/T footie betting after pesky Portugal blew my 5 game accumulator in the last kick of the game on Friday I am back on the horse for tonight.

    Belgium/England/Spain/France/Russia and ROI accumulator pays 7/2.



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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    TGOHF said:

    O/T footie betting after pesky Portugal blew my 5 game accumulator in the last kick of the game on Friday I am back on the horse for tonight.

    Belgium/England/Spain/France/Russia and ROI accumulator pays 7/2.



    7-2 for a 6 game Acca ?! How short are the individual prices lol :P >?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    "In a statement released after the IPCC published its findings, Mitchell said: "It is a matter of deep concern that the police forces employing these officers have concluded that their conduct has not brought the police service into disrepute. Most people will disagree.

    "It is a decision which will undermine confidence in the ability of the police to investigate misconduct when the reputation of the police service as a whole is at stake.

    "My family and I have waited nearly a year for these police officers to be held to account and for an apology from the police forces involved. It seems we have waited in vain."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/15/plebgate-officers-disciplinary-hearing-ipcc-andrew-mitchell
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    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html



    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.


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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    If Cameron had been offered these polls 3.5-years in when he stood in the rose garden with Nick Clegg in 2010, would he have taken them?

    I reckon he would have.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T footie betting after pesky Portugal blew my 5 game accumulator in the last kick of the game on Friday I am back on the horse for tonight.

    Belgium/England/Spain/France/Russia and ROI accumulator pays 7/2.



    7-2 for a 6 game Acca ?! How short are the individual prices lol :P >?
    All nailed on ;)


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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html

    And this little dig.

    "In this rarefied atmosphere – the world of, say, senior executives at the BBC – employees become assets."
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    @SO - I once read a wonderful quote about how the French Revolution happened not because peasants were starving, but because lawyers and teachers were....
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    All the cases these officers have given evidence in will be poured over by lawyers thinking of appeals - this isn't just isolated to Mitchell's fit-up.

    "In a statement released after the IPCC published its findings, Mitchell said: "It is a matter of deep concern that the police forces employing these officers have concluded that their conduct has not brought the police service into disrepute. Most people will disagree.

    "It is a decision which will undermine confidence in the ability of the police to investigate misconduct when the reputation of the police service as a whole is at stake.

    "My family and I have waited nearly a year for these police officers to be held to account and for an apology from the police forces involved. It seems we have waited in vain."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/15/plebgate-officers-disciplinary-hearing-ipcc-andrew-mitchell

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    The TNS result produces a Lab majority of 20 fwiw...
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Labour will increasingly be stuck in a dilemma as the election approaches. Say something bold and assertive to differentiate themselves - "a return to Socialism!" - and the voters think "Really?" Say nothing - the policy void so far - and they lose by default. They have no answer to the charge: "voting Labour in 2015 - why would you take the risk?" The rewards just aren't there.

    Labour has not remotely made a case for voting for them in 2015. They had been hoping that the Tories would be making a case to NOT vote for them. All of their positioning has been aimed at that in that past 40 months. But the Coalition will go into the election on the back of 9 quarters of growth - some of it perhaps quite robust. That will be contrasted with 0.0% growth from the Labour Govt. of 2005-2010. When they fecked the economy, good and proper.

    The Tories are doing in 2013 as I said they needed to at the start of the year - heads down, no feck-ups, just let people know they can govern sensibly - and want the job again in 2015. 2014 is going to be pretty much of the same. They just need to convince 1 voter in 200 each month that they are on the right path - and 2015 will be a happy outcome for them.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @GdnLaw: Crown Prosecution Service admits misleading public over complaints gu.com/p/3jhtx/tf

    < FFS - I despair. It feels like an endless stream of lies and failures and cover-ups.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T footie betting after pesky Portugal blew my 5 game accumulator in the last kick of the game on Friday I am back on the horse for tonight.

    Belgium/England/Spain/France/Russia and ROI accumulator pays 7/2.



    7-2 for a 6 game Acca ?! How short are the individual prices lol :P >?
    All nailed on ;)


    Not sure I'd want the Irish dead rubber in at that price.

    Yes - but I spent last Friday sweating over Iceland and it was Ronaldo's mob that sunk me.

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    @SO - I once read a wonderful quote about how the French Revolution happened not because peasants were starving, but because lawyers and teachers were....

    I am sure there is a lot in that. The Chinese are getting worried about something similar:

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/china/130522/millennials-labor-force-unemployment-jobs



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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What I'm not seeing is anyone trying to park their tanks on EdM's lawn.

    The LD, Tories and Kippers aren't trying to copy his ideas or even steal them. That tells me a lot.

    Labour will increasingly be stuck in a dilemma as the election approaches. Say something bold and assertive to differentiate themselves - "a return to Socialism!" - and the voters think "Really?" Say nothing - the policy void so far - and they lose by default. They have no answer to the charge: "voting Labour in 2015 - why would you take the risk?" The rewards just aren't there.

    Labour has not remotely made a case for voting for them in 2015. They had been hoping that the Tories would be making a case to NOT vote for them. All of their positioning has been aimed at that in that past 40 months. But the Coalition will go into the election on the back of 9 quarters of growth - some of it perhaps quite robust. That will be contrasted with 0.0% growth from the Labour Govt. of 2005-2010. When they fecked the economy, good and proper.

    The Tories are doing in 2013 as I said they needed to at the start of the year - heads down, no feck-ups, just let people know they can govern sensibly - and want the job again in 2015. 2014 is going to be pretty much of the same. They just need to convince 1 voter in 200 each month that they are on the right path - and 2015 will be a happy outcome for them.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Dr Brian Mathew selected for the LDs in North Wiltshire. He contested North Somerset in 2010:

    http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/10736712.Liberal_Democrats_announce_north_Wiltshire_general_election_candidate/?ref=rss
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    FPT - Millsy posted a link to a YouGov article that should be compulsory reading:

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/10/15/its-long-term-trends-stupid/
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    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html

    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.


    Incomes have been practically stagnant in America for decades. Germany has followed. We're on the same path. This is globalisation in action. I don't think anything can be done about it: if you massively tax the wealthy they eventually flee, or stop working. If you want to compete with China et al then wages cannot increase, for most, not when people in Shanghai can do the same job for ten dollars a day.

    Barring black swans like shale, the wealth of the west has plateau'd, for the moment, as the East catches up. Curiously, I think the voters accept this, with resignation (perhaps subconsciously = the inner wisdom of crowds).



    We are at the very beginning of this process, especially with regards to the roll back of the state. Income is not the issue so much as what your income buys and what prospects your children have. Standard of living is the key.

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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html

    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.


    Incomes have been practically stagnant in America for decades. Germany has followed. We're on the same path. This is globalisation in action. I don't think anything can be done about it: if you massively tax the wealthy they eventually flee, or stop working. If you want to compete with China et al then wages cannot increase, for most, not when people in Shanghai can do the same job for ten dollars a day.

    Barring black swans like shale, the wealth of the west has plateau'd, for the moment, as the East catches up. Curiously, I think the voters accept this, with resignation (perhaps subconsciously = the inner wisdom of crowds).

    This is the ultimate effect of globalisation. It's unstoppable.

    Ed and labour can pretend it's not, and from his conference speech that certainly seems to be the case. And it's true that both labour and the tories don't want to really face up to it.

    This is very different from the past, before countries were insular entities, so they had the ability to change their society and structure to cope with changes. But from the 20th century and onwards, with industrialisation and travel, that isn't the case. For the first part of the 20th century it led to global war. For the second part, it was somewhat frozen by the cold war. Now those barriers have broken down, and we are seeing the true impact of the information age, and of globalisation.

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The 1964 example is not a good one in a lot of respects.

    Yes houses were spectacularly cheaper but that's not the only standard is it? (especially for the middle classes).

    How middle class kids went to university in 1964? how many did gap yahs around the world? How many had their own phone/personal computer/face book page/electric guitar/motor vehicle? How many teenagers in 1964 could look forward to a life expectancy of eighty plus, with replacement of body parts that wear out almost a standard procedure?

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    Plato said:

    What I'm not seeing is anyone trying to park their tanks on EdM's lawn.

    The LD, Tories and Kippers aren't trying to copy his ideas or even steal them. That tells me a lot.

    Labour will increasingly be stuck in a dilemma as the election approaches. Say something bold and assertive to differentiate themselves - "a return to Socialism!" - and the voters think "Really?" Say nothing - the policy void so far - and they lose by default. They have no answer to the charge: "voting Labour in 2015 - why would you take the risk?" The rewards just aren't there.

    Labour has not remotely made a case for voting for them in 2015. They had been hoping that the Tories would be making a case to NOT vote for them. All of their positioning has been aimed at that in that past 40 months. But the Coalition will go into the election on the back of 9 quarters of growth - some of it perhaps quite robust. That will be contrasted with 0.0% growth from the Labour Govt. of 2005-2010. When they fecked the economy, good and proper.

    The Tories are doing in 2013 as I said they needed to at the start of the year - heads down, no feck-ups, just let people know they can govern sensibly - and want the job again in 2015. 2014 is going to be pretty much of the same. They just need to convince 1 voter in 200 each month that they are on the right path - and 2015 will be a happy outcome for them.

    It is pretty clear that the Tories are desperate to come up with something on energy prices.

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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013


    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.

    That article is a load of complete garbage from beginning to end. It doesn't stand up to half a minute's thought. Is he really arguing that living standards have dropped since the 1960s? What about central heating or foreign holidays - which I daresay his parents couldn't afford - or skiing trips (de rigeur now for the middle classes, often both family skiing holidays and school trips as well), not to mention all the consumer goods we take for granted but our parents never had, or better food available everywhere etc etc etc.

    If you really look at what he's saying, it's (a) house prices in Kew have rocketed. Well, that's true. (b) Someone who becomes a writer can't afford to send his children to Eton. Well, well, blow me down with a feather, and (c) His children can only afford big houses in London and private education for their kids if they get good jobs. Well, that's true too, but if they become lawyers or accountants or bankers or Labour charity-sinecure luvvies, they will be able to afford such things.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html

    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.
    Standard of living is the key.



    Standard of living is still vastly superior to the past,. Look at the electronics and computing items which are now a given for everyone. The access to facilitics and entertainment, both free and charged.

    People are not angry like they were in the 70s and 80s. We are very very comfortable compared with the past, and still are.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    edited October 2013


    We are at the very beginning of this process, especially with regards to the roll back of the state.

    Which party will be best equipped to do that? I guess it will come down to a combination of 'competence' (Tory) and 'fairness' (Labour) - neither are strong on their opponent's turf......

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''This is very different from the past, before countries were insular entities, so they had the ability to change their society and structure to cope with changes.''

    Of course, there are politicians who say they can take countries back to being insular entities. Le Pen in France definitely, and UKIP in Britain arguably (I'm not saying the latter is a clone of the former, by the way, it clearly isn't).

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    @tim - are you going for the Plato award for getting OGH into trouble with lawyers over excessive copying?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T footie betting after pesky Portugal blew my 5 game accumulator in the last kick of the game on Friday I am back on the horse for tonight.

    Belgium/England/Spain/France/Russia and ROI accumulator pays 7/2.



    7-2 for a 6 game Acca ?! How short are the individual prices lol :P >?
    All nailed on ;)


    Not sure I'd want the Irish dead rubber in at that price.

    Yes - but I spent last Friday sweating over Iceland and it was Ronaldo's mob that sunk me.

    I'm having a counterintuitive bet on Holland to win by more than one goal in Turkey, 5/1
    Turkey have to win, the Dutch have nothing to play for, if Turkey don't score early Holland will take them on the break.
    they didn't have anything to play for last match and beat Hungary 8-1

    I think Turkey are through even if they lose - the worst 2nd place looks like going to group B unless Armenia beat Italy away - I can't see any other way the Turks miss out ?

    Armenia went an amazing run in group B with away victories in Prague and 4-0 in Copenhagen- until the lost at home to Malta in June.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013


    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.

    That article is a load of complete garbage from beginning to end. It doesn't stand up to half a minute's thought. Is he really arguing that living standards have dropped since the 1960s? What about central heating or foreign holidays - which I daresay his parents couldn't afford - or skiing trips (de rigeur now for the middle classes, often both family skiing holidays and school trips as well), not to mention all the consumer goods we take for granted but our parents never had, or better food available everywhere etc etc etc.

    If you really look at what he's saying, it's (a) house prices in Kew have rocketed. Well, that's true. (b) Someone who becomes a writer can't afford to send his children to Eton. Well, well, blow me down with a feather, and (c) His children can only afford big houses in London and private education for their kids if they get good jobs. Well, that's true too, but if they become lawyers or accountants or bankers or Labour charity-sinecure luvvies, they will be able to afford such things.
    The main point he's making is regarding the growing gap between the top 1% and everyone else, and I think he's right to be exercised by it.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited October 2013
    Is there another trust in the journalists, politicians and police opinion poll due this week?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    I agree that Boris would increase the Tories' popularity in London, but he would almost certainly harm it in the rest of the country, especially outside the south.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T footie betting after pesky Portugal blew my 5 game accumulator in the last kick of the game on Friday I am back on the horse for tonight.

    Belgium/England/Spain/France/Russia and ROI accumulator pays 7/2.



    7-2 for a 6 game Acca ?! How short are the individual prices lol :P >?
    All nailed on ;)


    Not sure I'd want the Irish dead rubber in at that price.

    Yes - but I spent last Friday sweating over Iceland and it was Ronaldo's mob that sunk me.

    I'm having a counterintuitive bet on Holland to win by more than one goal in Turkey, 5/1
    Turkey have to win, the Dutch have nothing to play for, if Turkey don't score early Holland will take them on the break.
    they didn't have anything to play for last match and beat Hungary 8-1

    Can I get on anything like that with Bet365 - Clearing their bonus, £580 to go and about halfway through the 90 days.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    tim said:

    London Poll


    It found that the Tories under Mr Cameron could lose six seats in London to Labour, while picking up one from the Lib-Dems — down five overall. Such a result, if Labour also made gains in other parts of the country, could hand Labour’s Ed Miliband the keys to No 10, possibly with an overall majority.

    The survey found:

    Labour is on 45 per cent in London, the Conservatives 32, the Lib-Dems 10 and Ukip nine, (excluding don’t knows and wouldn’t vote).

    Labour’s 13-point lead compares with two per cent in 2010.

    This is a 5.5 per cent swing, broadly in line with the picture across Britain

    If the swing was uniform in London, Labour would seize Hendon, Brentford and Isleworth, Enfield North, Croydon Central, Harrow East and Ealing Central and Acton from the Conservatives.



    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-boris-johnsonled-tory-party-would-win-london-seats-8881419.html

    London is fast filling up with immigrants - who mostly vote Labour. That was of course the intention of Labour's immigration policies.

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    RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    Some very excitable Tories around today

    ICM Labour lead (post adjustment)


    ICM

    Preadjustment


    PRE ADJUSTMENT! PRE ADJUSTMENT! POST SAMPLING! WEIGHTING THE MARGINALS! THROBBING GREAT ASHCROFTS. FEEL MY HAIRY NIPPLES AND FEAR ME. HELP. HELP. I LIVE IN THE WIRRAL AND DONT HAVE A LIFE.

    It's pathetic isn't it Sean? Tim knows polling better than ICM.



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    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.

    That article is a load of complete garbage from beginning to end. It doesn't stand up to half a minute's thought. Is he really arguing that living standards have dropped since the 1960s? What about central heating or foreign holidays - which I daresay his parents couldn't afford - or skiing trips (de rigeur now for the middle classes, often both family skiing holidays and school trips as well), not to mention all the consumer goods we take for granted but our parents never had, or better food available everywhere etc etc etc.

    If you really look at what he's saying, it's (a) house prices in Kew have rocketed. Well, that's true. (b) Someone who becomes a writer can't afford to send his children to Eton. Well, well, blow me down with a feather, and (c) His children can only afford big houses in London and private education for their kids if they get good jobs. Well, that's true too, but if they become lawyers or accountants or bankers or Labour charity-sinecure luvvies, they will be able to afford such things.

    Agreed, much of it is a big whine. That's why I focused on the final two paragraphs. If people feel their living standards are declining - even if they are not - then that is a big issue. And if they believe their kids will have less opportunities than they did, it is an even bigger one.

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    perdix said:

    tim said:

    London Poll


    It found that the Tories under Mr Cameron could lose six seats in London to Labour, while picking up one from the Lib-Dems — down five overall. Such a result, if Labour also made gains in other parts of the country, could hand Labour’s Ed Miliband the keys to No 10, possibly with an overall majority.

    The survey found:

    Labour is on 45 per cent in London, the Conservatives 32, the Lib-Dems 10 and Ukip nine, (excluding don’t knows and wouldn’t vote).

    Labour’s 13-point lead compares with two per cent in 2010.

    This is a 5.5 per cent swing, broadly in line with the picture across Britain

    If the swing was uniform in London, Labour would seize Hendon, Brentford and Isleworth, Enfield North, Croydon Central, Harrow East and Ealing Central and Acton from the Conservatives.



    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-boris-johnsonled-tory-party-would-win-london-seats-8881419.html

    London is fast filling up with immigrants - who mostly vote Labour. That was of course the intention of Labour's immigration policies.

    Actually most immigrants do not, or cannot, vote.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Its not the votes that'll win Ed the next Election, it's the political geography !
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    The lower-middle classes will probably become a rare and exotic species in London in a few years' time. People will be able to go on expeditions to see if they can spot any members of this weird group.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Do you think the last Labour government admitted too many immigrants into Britain?

    Yes/No:

    Con voters: 92%/5%
    UKIP voters: 98%/2%
    Lab voters: 74%/17%
    LD voters: 59%/32%"


    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/10/15/voters-immigration-too-high-labour/
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've realised that I could have been a part of this poll. But when the woman rang from TNS on my home number, I put the phone down on her.

    It's probably just as well: we could do without more rogue results.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    Its not the votes that'll win Ed the next Election, it's the political geography !

    I wonder if one could sell STV, or PR-squared to the Tories on the basis that it would make it so much less likely that a Labour Chancellor would have complete control of the Treasury?
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    AndyJS said:

    The lower-middle classes will probably become a rare and exotic species in London in a few years' time. People will be able to go on expeditions to see if they can spot any members of this weird group.

    There'll be great swathes of inner London in which only the very rich and the relatively poor will live, that is for sure. It is already happening in many places and will accelerate as the first generation of middle class gentrifiers from the 60s and 70s - the teachers, the social workers, the lawyers, the doctors, the university lecturers, the journalists - die off in places such as Islington and Camden.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    tim said:

    How many Ruperts and Justins will there be in this quizzing?

    Probably more Tristrams than Justins.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Tamara Cohen @tamcohen
    David Amess MP tells hustings for dep speaker 'I deplore pomposity and arrogance'. Michael Fabricant: 'how will you get on with Mr Speaker?'
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html

    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.




    Meanwhile, this son of a printer who left school at 15 without a qualification to his name and a comprehensive school lab technician is doing very nicely thank you. You could extrapolate from my story and tell a heart-warming story of relentless upward mobility. Certainly, there are plenty of professionals of my generation with a similar story to tell.

    Or you might decide that the only lesson to be drawn from David Thomas's story is that civil servants and writers have in general reduced in social standing relative to City professionals.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I'd imagine quite a few of these people will move to the country or small towns when they retire, plus easier entry into the country for affluent Chinese, will make buying property in London even more attractive.

    AndyJS said:

    The lower-middle classes will probably become a rare and exotic species in London in a few years' time. People will be able to go on expeditions to see if they can spot any members of this weird group.

    There'll be great swathes of inner London in which only the very rich and the relatively poor will live, that is for sure. It is already happening in many places and will accelerate as the first generation of middle class gentrifiers from the 60s and 70s - the teachers, the social workers, the lawyers, the doctors, the university lecturers, the journalists - die off in places such as Islington and Camden.
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    AndyJS said:



    The main point he's making is regarding the growing gap between the top 1% and everyone else, and I think he's right to be exercised by it.

    Why? Surely, it is ones own position in life that's the problem. We know someone with six cars. We only have two (three when our twenty year old comes back to live with us, which does happen from time to time).

    Doesn't mean to say we're angry about people owning six cars.

    If we couldn't afford to eat, it would be a different matter, and in that case we wouldn't just be looking at the top 1%.
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    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    I like this paragraph:

    "So in 1964 they used that money to buy a five-bedroom detached house opposite Kew Gardens in south-west London. It cost £8,000."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10377807/Well-never-have-it-so-good-again.html

    These are the important ones, IMO ...

    And one might also say that anyone bemoaning middle-class decline is really just complaining about a loss of privilege. Why should anyone feel sorry for over-privileged parents whining about the possibility that their children might be marginally less spoiled than they have been?

    The answer, I think, is this: what is happening to the middle class is happening to 99 per cent of the rest of the population, too. Anyone outside the gilded 1 per cent is seeing their relative position decline. That’s an awful lot of people looking ahead and seeing less, rather than more, on the horizon. And, no matter what class you belong to, that’s not a healthy prospect for anyone.


    Meanwhile, this son of a printer who left school at 15 without a qualification to his name and a comprehensive school lab technician is doing very nicely thank you. You could extrapolate from my story and tell a heart-warming story of relentless upward mobility. Certainly, there are plenty of professionals of my generation with a similar story to tell.

    Or you might decide that the only lesson to be drawn from David Thomas's story is that civil servants and writers have in general reduced in social standing relative to City professionals.



    Yes, Antifrank. You are a member of the 1%. Unlike you, most people have seen their living standards either stagnate or decline over recent years. You may not think it is a problem or that you are insulated from the consequences of this. Maybe you are right.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876

    tim said:

    How many Ruperts and Justins will there be in this quizzing?

    Probably more Tristrams than Justins.
    But not so many Honourable Tristrams these days - good to see the Labour front bench protecting this endangered species......
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    Now this is proper news.

    Neil Woodford is to leave Invesco Perpetual in April 2014 and set up his own fund management business.

    Slightly important UK fund manager as Richard N knows for starters.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Labour History Group @LabourHistory
    The 1964 general election took place on this day - one current Labour MP, David Winnick, contested that election as candidate in Harwich
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, this son of a printer who left school at 15 without a qualification to his name and a comprehensive school lab technician is doing very nicely thank you. You could extrapolate from my story and tell a heart-warming story of relentless upward mobility. Certainly, there are plenty of professionals of my generation with a similar story to tell.

    Or you might decide that the only lesson to be drawn from David Thomas's story is that civil servants and writers have in general reduced in social standing relative to City professionals.

    Yes, Antifrank. You are a member of the 1%. Unlike you, most people have seen their living standards either stagnate or decline over recent years. You may not think it is a problem or that you are insulated from the consequences of this. Maybe you are right.

    Congratulations on comprehensively missing my point. Between generations there will always be those that relatively advance and those that relatively decline. Listening to the wistful laments of the disadvantaged ignores the progress made by others.

    Journalists and writers are at the forefront of those that have relatively declined (unsurprisingly, because they have completely failed to have adapted to the changing world). They have excellent access to the media - of course - and can wail to a listening audience. That doesn't make them reliable judges of what's going on.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    SeanT has written about Alastair Campbell:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100241481/what-my-time-in-jail-tells-me-about-the-eccentric-aggressive-guilt-ridden-alastair-campbell/

    Every convict in prison feels a certain amount of self-loathing. But they deal with this by saying: at least I’m not as bad as him. Thus a moral hierarchy develops – the bank-robber is better than the burglar who is better than the mugger. At the very bottom are the child abusers: even the murderers look down on the child abusers; the latter are the so-called nonces, who are often beaten up.

    Perhaps the same process is at work with Alastair Campbell. Thanks to Iraq, he is locked in the prison of his self-loathing. But now he has decided that the prisoner down the landing, aka the Daily Mail, is equivalent to a child molester, and, thankfully, even worse than him. So he fills a sock with snooker balls, and whacks it over the head.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2013
    For those who missed it

    Sarah Beeney recognises the insanity of h2b(ii);

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/10377012/Sarah-Beeny-Help-to-Buy-makes-taxpayers-act-like-parents.html

    And even the CEO at lloyds-hbos thinks it's nuts;

    http://news.sky.com/story/1154262/help-to-buy-lloyds-boss-questions-scheme

    This stupid policy needs be scrapped, or at least refocussed on the h2b(i) new-build scheme.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Another entertaining column from SeanT.

    'Most of the main players in Shock and Awe have now dropped out of the media spotlight. Geoff Hoon has retired to spend more time with himself. Tony Blair wears total orange face make-up, and resides on a private jet, like Howard Hughes in his dotage. Peter Hain lives mainly in Neath, so he is actively doing penance'
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    UKIP ‏@UKIP
    UKIP would scrap the bedroom tax http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6526959.article?mobilesite=enabled

    Says their spokesman:

    "Mr Charalambous, an unelected private sector landlord"
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    top trolling of a troll by SeanT.

    Will be good sport if you hook the big fish himself..
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    tim said:

    London Poll details

    Do you have a job or are you retired Tim? Whatever the coming answer, you sure have time to post loads on here.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I see that Ireland believe that they will achieve a small primary surplus next year. How far away are we from achieving the same?
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    TGOHF said:

    top trolling of a troll by SeanT.

    Will be good sport if you hook the big fish himself..

    Hard to see him resisting such an open challenge.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    tim said:

    UKIP ‏@UKIP
    UKIP would scrap the bedroom tax http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6526959.article?mobilesite=enabled

    Says their spokesman:

    "Mr Charalambous, an unelected private sector landlord"
    You have to feel sorry for Farage sometimes - if it smells fruity, its baked in the oven and served in slices with tea...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I liked this comment - it just summed up how absurd New Labour became

    " Vinogreth

    In his time Tony Blair apologized on behalf of the British for Slavery, the Irish Famine, the oppression of women, the Holocaust, our damage to the environment, getting the Chinese addicted to opium and God knows what else.

    Then, in the name of the British, he went off and bombed a country into oblivion for no good reason whatsoever.

    I guess war making and mass killings are just fine if you happen to be doing it in the name of ''Liberalism'' and ''Western Values'' by which they mean Cultural Marxism."

    Another entertaining column from SeanT.

    'Most of the main players in Shock and Awe have now dropped out of the media spotlight. Geoff Hoon has retired to spend more time with himself. Tony Blair wears total orange face make-up, and resides on a private jet, like Howard Hughes in his dotage. Peter Hain lives mainly in Neath, so he is actively doing penance'

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    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, this son of a printer who left school at 15 without a qualification to his name and a comprehensive school lab technician is doing very nicely thank you. You could extrapolate from my story and tell a heart-warming story of relentless upward mobility. Certainly, there are plenty of professionals of my generation with a similar story to tell.

    Or you might decide that the only lesson to be drawn from David Thomas's story is that civil servants and writers have in general reduced in social standing relative to City professionals.

    Yes, Antifrank. You are a member of the 1%. Unlike you, most people have seen their living standards either stagnate or decline over recent years. You may not think it is a problem or that you are insulated from the consequences of this. Maybe you are right.

    Congratulations on comprehensively missing my point. Between generations there will always be those that relatively advance and those that relatively decline. Listening to the wistful laments of the disadvantaged ignores the progress made by others.

    Journalists and writers are at the forefront of those that have relatively declined (unsurprisingly, because they have completely failed to have adapted to the changing world). They have excellent access to the media - of course - and can wail to a listening audience. That doesn't make them reliable judges of what's going on.

    Maybe you should have made your point better. However, if you are saying that current times are like those that have gone before and people's fates and fortunes will wax and wane in similar fashion tot he past I think you may turn out to be very wrong.

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    tim said:

    tim said:

    London Poll details

    Do you have a job or are you retired Tim? Whatever the coming answer, you sure have time to post loads on here.
    Fancy a bet onyour prediction that the Tories will win by 10% plus?

    Depends on the details.

    What's the answer to my question by the way? Do you have a job?
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    tim said:

    London Poll details

    Do you have a job or are you retired Tim? Whatever the coming answer, you sure have time to post loads on here.
    Fancy a bet onyour prediction that the Tories will win by 10% plus?

    Why on earth should Richard bet with you at evens? He can get far better odds elsewhere.

    Talking about evens, I'm still on for that for the deficit reduction wager? But I can well understand your reticence. Shouldn't you just pay up to DavidL now? Silly boy.
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    Great link Plato. Those graphs aren't rocket science but they neatly illustrate the point the lefties refuse even to consider.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Looks like people are discussing immigrants and their voting patterns as if they were a homogeneous group

    Regarding football accas, this bloke picked up six figures at the weekend

    @weekendfootball
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Not helpful for the welfare party...

    Gordon Rayner ‏@gordonrayner 4m
    David Belmar, the man arrested with a knife outside Buckingham Palace yesterday, wanted to see the Queen to complain about his benefits.
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    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    London Poll details

    Do you have a job or are you retired Tim? Whatever the coming answer, you sure have time to post loads on here.
    Fancy a bet onyour prediction that the Tories will win by 10% plus?

    Why on earth should Richard bet with you at evens? He can get far better odds elsewhere.

    Talking about evens, I'm still on for that for the deficit reduction wager? But I can well understand your reticence. Shouldn't you just pay up to DavidL now? Silly boy.
    Is that what Tim was offering me? Didn't see the details as I'm working. What a fatuous oaf he is.

    Generally speaking I'm not keen on tying up money in long-term bets, which is why spreads are so much better but something could be done via opinion polls, although they're only to be regarded for trends.
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    Do I have the cullions to short the Royal Mail at 479-482?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2013

    Do I have the cullions to short the Royal Mail at 479-482?

    Watch the trades - when the no of "227" trades starts to tail off , the froth is nearly done.

    Down 5p since 9am..
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    Tim I'll wager you these based on established national opinion polls as reported on this site and / or UKPR. These are straight evens bets. They come right you pay me £10, if they don't I pay you. All three together, take or leave.

    1. £10 Evens between today and 30th June 2014 the Conservatives will have a lead in at least one poll
    2. £10 Evens between today and 31st December 2014 the Conservatives will have a 5% or more lead in at least one poll
    3. £10 Evens between today and 08th May 2015 the Conservatives will have a 10% or more lead in either one opinion poll or the actual General Election the latter based on United Kingdom

    Please note for the avoidance of doubt these are the published figures, not your fiddling manipulations of samples, adjustments or people who live in Surbiton.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Mitchell-ites out in force on airwaves. DD on Wato, now David Ruffley and Dom Raab on BBC and Sky simultaneously. That's some operation

    @robindbrant: @paulwaugh just you wait to see the little gathering outside portcullis just now
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    tim said:

    perdix said:

    tim said:

    London Poll


    It found that the Tories under Mr Cameron could lose six seats in London to Labour, while picking up one from the Lib-Dems — down five overall. Such a result, if Labour also made gains in other parts of the country, could hand Labour’s Ed Miliband the keys to No 10, possibly with an overall majority.

    The survey found:

    Labour is on 45 per cent in London, the Conservatives 32, the Lib-Dems 10 and Ukip nine, (excluding don’t knows and wouldn’t vote).

    Labour’s 13-point lead compares with two per cent in 2010.

    This is a 5.5 per cent swing, broadly in line with the picture across Britain

    If the swing was uniform in London, Labour would seize Hendon, Brentford and Isleworth, Enfield North, Croydon Central, Harrow East and Ealing Central and Acton from the Conservatives.



    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-boris-johnsonled-tory-party-would-win-london-seats-8881419.html

    London is fast filling up with immigrants - who mostly vote Labour. That was of course the intention of Labour's immigration policies.


    They're more educated than Brits and harder working according to the stats, are you therefore arguing that they are beyond the Tories reach?

    You really are a Tea Party Tory determined to alienate your party among what should be natural supporters aren't you.

    Maybe you should read the Republican Party's problems with Latino voters and save your knee jerk empty bullshit and stop damaging your own side
    I can't give you a link but surveys of voters with immigrant backgrounds have been shown to predominantly vote Labour. A fact. They would be better off in the long term if they voted Tory. I hold no grudge against them but it was part of Labour's plan.

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    Vanished like Macavity. Reminds me of someone.
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    What an awful day for the PB-Footites.

    Has Ed thought about capping polls as well as prices? It doesn't llok good when they all show the evil capitalist baby-eaters this close.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629
    edited October 2013
    Comrades, this is yet another outlier!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    Plato said:
    LOL that drum one at the end

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RobD said:
    It is rather good isn't it!
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    Haha love them! Have just put that on my fb status. #28 is sooooooo cute! Sorry, soppy moment!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Haha love them! Have just put that on my fb status. #28 is sooooooo cute! Sorry, soppy moment!

    I liked Tough Guys at #19
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Plato,

    The other day I noticed two cats circling something in my garden. It turned out to be a pigeon with a serious injury. It was still alive enough to fight off their attentions, but couldn;t fly. It clearly wanted to be left alone to expire in peace.

    The cats were so fascinated they paid me zero attention when I walked up to this rather sad scene. I had to shoo one away because it was trying to poke its head up the pigeon's feathery ar&e

    After I put the pigeon out of its misery and buried it, the cats regarded me as if I had just shat in their sitting rooms.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    edited October 2013
    Vaz first question to May is on IPCC & Plebgate......

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/main/Player.aspx?meetingId=13939

    Defends operational independence of the police, but its quite wrong for West Mercia police not to hold disciplinary proceedings.
This discussion has been closed.