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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Good to see my 14-1 shot for the LD leadership back in acti

SystemSystem Posts: 12,250
edited October 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Good to see my 14-1 shot for the LD leadership back in action AND being political

A long time ago when it appeared that Chris Huhne’s “little local difficulty” might not end in a criminal trial I backed the former LD Energy Secretary at 14/1 for Clegg’s replacement. Subsequent events have clearly made that outcome a very remote possibility.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Is he blaming Osborne in the sense that he implemented previously baked in policy? Or did Osborne add new green taxes on top of EdM's plans?

    If the former, it's a little harsh and a technicality - Osborne would have had to find the money elsewhere not too (which I suspect he may do in future). If the later then, yes, he deserves a proportion of the blame.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient."

    Did you miss out "convicted perjurer"?
  • Charles said:

    Is he blaming Osborne in the sense that he implemented previously baked in policy? Or did Osborne add new green taxes on top of EdM's plans?

    If the former, it's a little harsh and a technicality - Osborne would have had to find the money elsewhere not too (which I suspect he may do in future). If the later then, yes, he deserves a proportion of the blame.

    If the Tories supported the Climate Change Act in opposition, which they most certainly did, then surely Osborne actually introduced green taxes that he voted for.

  • "Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient."

    Did you miss out "convicted perjurer"?

    He was convicted on his own plea of perverting the course of public justice. There is no suggestion that he committed the statutory offence of perjury.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Is he blaming Osborne in the sense that he implemented previously baked in policy? Or did Osborne add new green taxes on top of EdM's plans?

    If the former, it's a little harsh and a technicality - Osborne would have had to find the money elsewhere not too (which I suspect he may do in future). If the later then, yes, he deserves a proportion of the blame.

    If the Tories supported the Climate Change Act in opposition, which they most certainly did, then surely Osborne actually introduced green taxes that he voted for.

    Probably yes, but with an executive-dominated legislature then executive (in this case EdM) bears a greater share of the blame, although Osborne is not without fault
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Left Foot Forward:

    "Whether or not one agrees with the cap, what is really surprising is that it has taken Labour this long to stop opposing it: poll after poll has shown that the public is overwhelmingly in favour of the cap – including Labour voters.

    .... free schools are popular, especially in areas with sitting Labour MPs. 47 per cent of free schools are in areas with Labour MPs, compared with 44 per cent in Tory areas and five per cent in Lib Dem constituencies."

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2013/10/labour-free-schools-welfare/
  • tim said:

    Osborne has voted for every green tax even before he got into office and has increased them since.
    He used to criticise Darling for not saying enough about the environment, so his rhetoric is hypocritical

    So basically Osborne has done what he has always voted to do. I blame the BBC.

  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Is he blaming Osborne in the sense that he implemented previously baked in policy? Or did Osborne add new green taxes on top of EdM's plans?

    If the former, it's a little harsh and a technicality - Osborne would have had to find the money elsewhere not too (which I suspect he may do in future). If the later then, yes, he deserves a proportion of the blame.

    If the Tories supported the Climate Change Act in opposition, which they most certainly did, then surely Osborne actually introduced green taxes that he voted for.

    Probably yes, but with an executive-dominated legislature then executive (in this case EdM) bears a greater share of the blame, although Osborne is not without fault

    Actually, the Tories wanted to go further and have binding annual emissions targets. They must be pleased that Ed did not listen to them!
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    "Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient."

    Did you miss out "convicted perjurer"?

    Could've added devious and untrustworthy.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    "Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient."

    Did you miss out "convicted perjurer"?

    He was convicted on his own plea of perverting the course of public justice. There is no suggestion that he committed the statutory offence of perjury.

    Thank you - I apologise unreservedly to Mr Huhne, convicted perverter of the course of justice.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Lol Huhne ! Proof that prison doesn't work...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2013
    Huhne sums up the LDs - male, stale , pale and an epic fail.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    John Rentoul @JohnRentoul
    When Tristram Hunt was higher education spokesman he was asked what his policies were: "I haven’t got a clue” jerryhayes.co.uk/posts/2013/10/…
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    If the LDs want to blame Osborne for the green taxes, then presumably they will have no problems if the Tories want to remove them...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Is he blaming Osborne in the sense that he implemented previously baked in policy? Or did Osborne add new green taxes on top of EdM's plans?

    If the former, it's a little harsh and a technicality - Osborne would have had to find the money elsewhere not too (which I suspect he may do in future). If the later then, yes, he deserves a proportion of the blame.

    If the Tories supported the Climate Change Act in opposition, which they most certainly did, then surely Osborne actually introduced green taxes that he voted for.

    Probably yes, but with an executive-dominated legislature then executive (in this case EdM) bears a greater share of the blame, although Osborne is not without fault

    Actually, the Tories wanted to go further and have binding annual emissions targets. They must be pleased that Ed did not listen to them!
    Could be a good alternative to put in place now if the Tories want to scale back pollution taxes. The advantage of caps over taxes (whether or not they come with an -and-trade) is that they bite the most when the economy is growing and become less important when it shrinks, which is handy because public concern for the environment grows and shrinks along with the economy.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    O/T for Sunil

    http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/londontubecentral

    53/63 but rather annoyed I forgot High Street Kensington!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This "it was already Labour policy anyway" is not getting through :

    Tristram Hunt signals Labour policy shift on free schools

    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/13/tristam-hunt-labour-free-schools
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    'Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient.'

    Lots of credibility.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,260
    edited October 2013
    So even ex prisoners, who generally have a lower IQ than the rest of the population, think that Ed's policies, like the man are crap.

    Huzzah to the prison education system.

    Talking about ex yellow peril ministers, any markets on whether Jeremy Browne will defect ?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Everything else aside, is there anyone else out there enjoying the schadenfreude of Ed's 'brilliant move' (and in terms of tactics, sheer brilliance) will possibly result in an undoing of all the green energy taxes that were piled on through the during the consensus on man made global warming?
    I was visting a premises the other day, a gigantic house, probably about eight bedrooms, the entire of the roof was occupied with panels, probably around sixty to eighty.

    If it was classed as welfare he would be hit by the benefits cap.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Devious Huhne really should go back to Labour, that's surely where his heart is, not to mention his purse.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The Nick Clarke Award - Interview of the Year 2013

    Something for Jeremy Hunt to think about. This happened on his watch.

    https://audioboo.fm/boos/1657971-nick-clarke-award-interview-of-the-year-2013#t=4m42s
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited October 2013

    So even ex prisoners, who generally have a lower IQ than the rest of the population, think that Ed's policies, like the man are crap.

    Huzzah to the prison education system.

    Talking about ex yellow peril ministers, any markets on whether Jeremy Browne will defect ?

    As a general rule if you hear about a potential defection before it is has happened then it won't

  • So even ex prisoners, who generally have a lower IQ than the rest of the population, think that Ed's policies, like the man are crap.

    Huzzah to the prison education system.

    Talking about ex yellow peril ministers, any markets on whether Jeremy Browne will defect ?

    As a general rule if you hear about a defection before it is has happened then it won't

    Agreed, It has all the subtlety of when we tried to get David Laws to defect.

  • What is truly remarkable is how everyone seems to be blaming everybody else for green taxes and thus high prices and nobody wants to champion higher taxes and higher energy prices as a good thing. How times can quickly change.

    Fuel Duty has already been frozen in recent years because the cost of petrol has been considered more important than the environmental concerns. Now it seems that regardless of political party its going to be hard to escalate energy taxes any further.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Huhne's full of shit. In other news, the post-race analysis of the Japanese Grand Prix is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/japan-post-race-analysis.html

    The Constructors' title race is pretty interesting. Whilst Red Bull will win it, there are close battles for almost every other position.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    F1: interestingly, Jordan reckons Hulkenberg is off to Force India (most of the rumours previously focused on Lotus):
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24512559
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    I'm beginning to think Chris Huhne is a man for our times. Like Catherine Deneuve is the embodiment of the French Republic Chris Huhne represents Britishness.

    He's completely shameless
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. Roger, he bloody well does he not. He might represent the political class, but that's quite another matter.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    "Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient."

    Did you miss out "convicted perjurer"?

    He was convicted on his own plea of perverting the course of public justice. There is no suggestion that he committed the statutory offence of perjury.

    Thank you - I apologise unreservedly to Mr Huhne, convicted perverter of the course of justice.

    Much better kept simple:

    "Convicted pervert".

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,985
    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited October 2013
    @Roger

    'He's completely shameless'

    Does he think anyone would take him seriously?
  • Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Roger said:

    I'm beginning to think Chris Huhne is a man for our times. Like Catherine Deneuve is the embodiment of the French Republic Chris Huhne represents Britishness.

    He's completely shameless

    Roger

    Isn't Gérard Depardieu the embodiment of the current French Republic?

    The days of achieving greatness by marrying photographers are long gone.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,985

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    What type of Lib Dem do they prefer? If you just mention Kennedy and Campbell I'll assume you're being parochial.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    What is truly remarkable is how everyone seems to be blaming everybody else for green taxes and thus high prices and nobody wants to champion higher taxes and higher energy prices as a good thing. How times can quickly change.

    Fuel Duty has already been frozen in recent years because the cost of petrol has been considered more important than the environmental concerns. Now it seems that regardless of political party its going to be hard to escalate energy taxes any further.

    Two points:
    i) we should be instinctively wary of 'consensus' on an issue, especially in politics. If it is shown to be wrong it takes a long time to work its way out of the system.
    ii) There's an underlying assumption that increasing energy taxes is done for environmental reasons, rather than an ability to generate lots of cash to spend on pet projects.

    All politicians love pet projects and they all like to stuff their supporters mouths with gold.
  • Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    What type of Lib Dem do they prefer? If you just mention Kennedy and Campbell I'll assume you're being parochial.
    Unsurprisingly, Scottish voters prefer Scottish politicians. Nothing unusual in that. American voters tend to like American politicians. French folk like French politicians, Finnish voters... you get the pattern.

    In that sense, all politics is parochial.

    But that is not really what I was meaning. Not all English Lib Dems are electoral dog poo. But those three are.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,854
    edited October 2013
    Huhne. Hmmm. The difference between him and several other politicians who feel from grace is that, albeit at the last minute, he pleaded guilty. And if he'd waited until conviction he might not even had to have resigned from Parliament.
    If his ex-wife had had the sense to do the same there might not even have been a prison sentence.

    He's 59, so he would have been looking towards the end of his career anyway!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    @Avery


    "The days of achieving greatness by marrying photographers are long gone."

    No. It always works. That or your plastic surgeon.

    As for Depardieu...Last seen with his nose in an upside down A-Z of Moscow
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,985

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    What type of Lib Dem do they prefer? If you just mention Kennedy and Campbell I'll assume you're being parochial.
    Unsurprisingly, Scottish voters prefer Scottish politicians. Nothing unusual in that. American voters tend to like American politicians. French folk like French politicians, Finnish voters... you get the pattern.

    In that sense, all politics is parochial.

    But that is not really what I was meaning. Not all English Lib Dems are electoral dog poo. But those three are.
    You don't mention any though. Leaving aside Clegg who everyone seems to dislike nowadays, I would have thought a left-leaner like Hughes would be popular in Scotland. I admit I don't really understand Scottish political instincts at all.
  • The detailed Survation tables are up, and we have yet another poll where the Scottish Tories are shown doing really quite well. I genuinely am beginning to think that, with the Lib Dems becoming the new Toxic Party north of the border, and SLab doing Cameron's dirty work under the "Better Together" banner, we could just be seeing the very first glimmers of a Scottish Conservative & Unionist recovery.

    Survation/MoS
    Westminster VI - Scotland
    (usual caveats, blah, blah)
    (+/- change from UK GE 2010)

    SNP 34% (+14)
    Lab 34% (-8)
    Con 23% (+6)
    LD 7% (-12)
    Grn 1% (n/c)
    UKIP 1% (n/c)

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Data-Tables-MOS-13102013.pdf

    I wonder how long it will take before ordinary SLab members begin to understand that their party is boosting the hated Tories?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited October 2013

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.

    They've been predicting that Simon Hughes would lose Bermondsey for 30 years - hasn't happened.

    The LDs are the only one of the main parties not to have lost a by-election in this partliament.

  • Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Don't tell Easterross, Fitalass or Scott P. They'd need smelling salts.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.

    They've been predicting that Simon Hughes would lose Bermondsey for 30 years - hasn't happened.

    The LDs are the only one of the main parties not to have lost a by-election in this partliament.

    "The LDs are the only one of the main parties not to have lost a by-election in this parliament."

    For that to be relevant, we would have to compare the 2010 leads each party had in each of those by-elections as well.
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited October 2013

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.
    I'm not really concerned about "last time" Mike. That is ancient history. What the Scottish Lib Dems really need to start focussing on is "next time". I can smell their breeks filling already.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Huhne. Hmmm. The difference between him and several other politicians who feel from grace is that, albeit at the last minute, he pleaded guilty. And if he'd waited until conviction he might not even had to have resigned from Parliament.
    If his ex-wife had had the sense to do the same there might not even have been a prison sentence.

    He's 59, so he would have been looking towards the end of his career anyway!

    I've often wondered about that but I don't think Huhne could have returned to parliament even if the judge had still given him a term less than a year. My reading was that Huhne figured that by resigning when he did it might have helped him get a shorter term.

    I'm grateful that he did because Eastleigh turned out the be my betting bonanza of 2013.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Thanks Stuart for posting the largest Scottish Tory Surge post yet.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.
    I'm not really concerned about "last time" Mike. That is ancient history. What the Scottish Lib Dems really need to start focussing on is "next time". I can smell their breeks filling already.
    As I recall last time you were making the same predictions which turned out to be wrong.

    What odds will you give me on them winning more seats in Scotland at GE2015 than the SNP?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    What odds will you give me on them winning more seats in Scotland at GE2015 than the SNP?

    Are the SNP rerunning their "20 seats" strategy, or are they abstaining completely cos they will be offski by then?
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited October 2013
    Scott_P said:

    Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Thanks Stuart for posting the largest Scottish Tory Surge post yet.
    I aim to please! ;)

    But I am being serious. I genuinely do detect tiny, tiny signs of a wee uptick in the SCon VI statistics. The first sign of new life in the SCon base in literally decades. That is interesting. Very interesting. And, if true, it deserves analysis and explanation. And Alastair Darling has got a lot of the explaining to do, because it is largely his fault.

  • Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.
    I'm not really concerned about "last time" Mike. That is ancient history. What the Scottish Lib Dems really need to start focussing on is "next time". I can smell their breeks filling already.
    As I recall last time you were making the same predictions which turned out to be wrong.

    What odds will you give me on them winning more seats in Scotland at GE2015 than the SNP?

    You are mistaking me for a bookmaker Mike. Shadsy is your man for that type of enquiry.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.
    I'm not really concerned about "last time" Mike. That is ancient history. What the Scottish Lib Dems really need to start focussing on is "next time". I can smell their breeks filling already.
    As I recall last time you were making the same predictions which turned out to be wrong.

    What odds will you give me on them winning more seats in Scotland at GE2015 than the SNP?

    You are mistaking me for a bookmaker Mike. Shadsy is your man for that type of enquiry.
    So you are not prepared to back your assertions up with a wager.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited October 2013


    But I am being serious. I genuinely do detect tiny, tiny signs of a wee uptick in the SCon VI statistics. The first sign of new life in the SCon base in literally decades. That is interesting. Very interesting. And, if true, it deserves analysis and explanation. And Alastair Darling has got a lot of the explaining to do, because it is largely his fault.

    You are being too modest Stuart.

    The astonishingly cack-handed manner in which the SNP have handled the referendum, their entire reason for being, which seems to be worked out on a series of chip wrappers, probably deserves quite a lot of the credit.

    I have no time or respect for the SNP and am generally contemptuous of all their works, but even I am amazed at just how spectacularly crap they are at this, their one big moment in history.

    All those years, all the effort, blood, sweat and tears, and Eck is going to fluff it.

    Makes me glad to have seen it though...
  • However, no Scottish Tory Surge in sight in Fife:

    Best prices - Dunfermline by-election

    Lab 4/11 (Coral)
    SNP 8/3 (Betfair)
    LD 70/1
    Ind 100/1
    Grn 125/1
    UKIP 125/1
    Con 200/1
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013

    Scott_P said:

    Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Thanks Stuart for posting the largest Scottish Tory Surge post yet.
    I aim to please! ;)

    But I am being serious. I genuinely do detect tiny, tiny signs of a wee uptick in the SCon VI statistics. The first sign of new life in the SCon base in literally decades. That is interesting. Very interesting. And, if true, it deserves analysis and explanation. And Alastair Darling has got a lot of the explaining to do, because it is largely his fault.

    I see.

    SLab support for Better Together is giving rise to SCon surge in Scotland.

    You are not arguing that a Yes vote is the only way to stop the Tories are you Stuart?
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited October 2013

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.
    I'm not really concerned about "last time" Mike. That is ancient history. What the Scottish Lib Dems really need to start focussing on is "next time". I can smell their breeks filling already.
    As I recall last time you were making the same predictions which turned out to be wrong.

    What odds will you give me on them winning more seats in Scotland at GE2015 than the SNP?

    You are mistaking me for a bookmaker Mike. Shadsy is your man for that type of enquiry.
    So you are not prepared to back your assertions up with a wager.

    What assertions?

    It is Survation's voting intention poll.

    Commissioned by the Mail on Sunday.

    With seat predictions courtesy of the mathematician Martin Baxter.

    The assertion I made was that the Scottish Lib Dems are filling their breeks, which is self-evidently true. Not sure how we could have a wager on that though.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited October 2013

    Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Don't tell Easterross, Fitalass or Scott P. They'd need smelling salts.

    You'll need smelling salts too, Stuart. Or dont you remember the fuss you made over JackW's ARSE projecting even fewer SNP seats than that?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Huhne lied, lied, lied and then lied again, right up until the last possible moment 're his court case. He was caught out briefing against colleagues and yet Mike stills seems to admire him. It's a funny old world.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
  • Neil said:

    Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Don't tell Easterross, Fitalass or Scott P. They'd need smelling salts.

    You'll need smelling salts too, Stuart. Or dont you remember the fuss you made over JackW's ARSE projecting even fewer SNP seats than that?
    The thing is, I take Baxter with a large pinch of salt. The problem is that our Scottish Tory PBers tend to take them as God's Honest Truth. Which always adds to the fun of every Surge thread.

  • AveryLP said:

    Scott_P said:

    Just for fun, if you pump those Survation Scottish splits into Baxter's Electoral Calculus seat predictor, you get the following distribution:

    Lab 34 seats (-7)
    SNP 18 seats (+12)
    Con 5 seats (+4)
    LD 2 seats (-9)

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html

    Thanks Stuart for posting the largest Scottish Tory Surge post yet.
    I aim to please! ;)

    But I am being serious. I genuinely do detect tiny, tiny signs of a wee uptick in the SCon VI statistics. The first sign of new life in the SCon base in literally decades. That is interesting. Very interesting. And, if true, it deserves analysis and explanation. And Alastair Darling has got a lot of the explaining to do, because it is largely his fault.

    I see.

    SLab support for Better Together is giving rise to SCon surge in Scotland.

    You are not arguing that a Yes vote is the only way to stop the Tories are you Stuart?
    How do you do one of those wee innocent faces?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    He attempted to pervert the course of justice, that's not a little white lie. If he had been successful a driver who should have been off the roads for poor driving would remain on them. Two serious outcomes from one lie.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    The detailed Survation tables are up, and we have yet another poll where the Scottish Tories are shown doing really quite well. I genuinely am beginning to think that, with the Lib Dems becoming the new Toxic Party north of the border, and SLab doing Cameron's dirty work under the "Better Together" banner, we could just be seeing the very first glimmers of a Scottish Conservative & Unionist recovery.

    Survation/MoS
    Westminster VI - Scotland
    (usual caveats, blah, blah)
    (+/- change from UK GE 2010)

    SNP 34% (+14)
    Lab 34% (-8)
    Con 23% (+6)
    LD 7% (-12)
    Grn 1% (n/c)
    UKIP 1% (n/c)

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Data-Tables-MOS-13102013.pdf

    I wonder how long it will take before ordinary SLab members begin to understand that their party is boosting the hated Tories?

    All based on a sub sample of 77 people , you learned nothing from your predictions in the last parliament .
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    MikeK said:
    You know that story is dated 22 January 2011, right?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    Huhne lied to the Prime Minister; he lied to his party leader; he lied to the media, and, through the media, to the British public; he lied to the Police; and, in so far as a plea of not guilty later reversed is a lie, he lied to the Courts.

    Some may have sympathy with him because all these subsequent lies originated from a lie over a trivial traffic offence and because its exposure and sorry consequences resulted from a deserted wife's revenge for marital infidelity, but that doesn't make any of the lies told "white".

    You could take the line that Huhne was a "white liar", but then, as tim might say, this is hardly surprising: he was after all a Lib Dem MP.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:
    You know that story is dated 22 January 2011, right?
    Doesn't change anything except to say it's even more biased in October 2013 and definately corrupt.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    "http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349506/Left-wing-bias-Its-written-BBCs-DNA-says-Peter-Sissons.html"

    So Peter Sissons is a blue rinse-or is he bitter 'cos the BBC sacked him or is he after a job at the Mail?

    So difficult to tell with ex employees with an axe to grind.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,854
    edited October 2013
    saddened said:

    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    He attempted to pervert the course of justice, that's not a little white lie. If he had been successful a driver who should have been off the roads for poor driving would remain on them. Two serious outcomes from one lie.

    Unquestionably he was both extremely foolish and, up to the last minute, arrogant. However I thought that the most revealing comment was that of Brian Paddick who reported being amazed when many of his friends apparently said that they saw nothing wrong with a spouse taking such points and indeed IIRC some said they had done so.
    Repeated offences indicate either seriously poor driving or a contempt for either the law or everyone's safety. Or, of course, all three.

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071


    The assertion I made was that the Scottish Lib Dems are filling their breeks, which is self-evidently true. Not sure how we could have a wager on that though.

    Volume? Is there an SI unit for pungency?

  • Huhne was a dangerous driver, with a history of driving offences. He lied to try and keep his licence, so that he could carry on with his dangerous driving. He is as disgusting as any young lad in a souped up Saxo, wilfully, gleefully disobeying the law by ignoring speed limits and using his mobile phone.

    We run a road safety campaign about the Fatal Four-speeding, using a mobile whilst driving, not wearing a seastbelt and dunk/drugged driving. Huhne deserved all he got, and more.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    "Huhne lied to the Prime Minister; he lied to his party leader; he lied to the media, and, through the media, to the British public; he lied to the Police; and, in so far as a plea of not guilty later reversed is a lie, he lied to the Courts."


    Sounds like he's got issues
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Revealed: Labour's secret plan to sabotage free schools"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100241132/revealed-labours-secret-plan-to-sabotage-free-schools/

    Tobe can't spell 'bailiwick'.....
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited October 2013

    saddened said:

    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    He attempted to pervert the course of justice, that's not a little white lie. If he had been successful a driver who should have been off the roads for poor driving would remain on them. Two serious outcomes from one lie.

    Unquestionably he was both extremely foolish and, up to the last minute, arrogant. However I thought that the most revealing comment was that of Brian Paddick who reported being amazed when many of his friends apparently said that they saw nothing wrong with a spouse taking such points and indeed IIRC some said they had done so.
    Repeated offences indicate either seriously poor driving or a contempt for either the law or everyone's safety. Or, of course, all three.

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?
    You are right, and it's another example of the ancient truth that it isn't the sin that really does for you; it's the cover-up. If he had put his hands up then and there he'd have lost his cabinet position but probably been back doing something in the reshuffle just gone.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    saddened said:

    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    He attempted to pervert the course of justice, that's not a little white lie. If he had been successful a driver who should have been off the roads for poor driving would remain on them. Two serious outcomes from one lie.

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    I don't think he went for perjury. His case ended before it started.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    surbiton said:

    saddened said:

    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    He attempted to pervert the course of justice, that's not a little white lie. If he had been successful a driver who should have been off the roads for poor driving would remain on them. Two serious outcomes from one lie.

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    I don't think he went for perjury. His case ended before it started.
    The details of his conviction are well documented in a post further down the thread. But regardless of the legal niceties, he went to prison because he is a serial liar.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    @Carlotta

    "Tobe can't spell 'bailiwick'..... "

    Nor frame a cogent argument. What a silly article
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    saddened said:

    surbiton said:

    saddened said:

    notme said:

    Have I had a post removed that related to a former friend of the Chancellor, the police and a book that is soon to be publsihed? If so, why?

    In other news I wonder if OGH still stands by his decision to back Huhne against Clegg in the LD leadership election in 2007. If he does, I reckon that's quite revealing.

    What Huhne done is relatively trivial, or it would have seemed to most of us before all this happened.

    Who wouldnt be tempted? A little white lie, no one hurt...
    He attempted to pervert the course of justice, that's not a little white lie. If he had been successful a driver who should have been off the roads for poor driving would remain on them. Two serious outcomes from one lie.

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    I don't think he went for perjury. His case ended before it started.
    The details of his conviction are well documented in a post further down the thread. But regardless of the legal niceties, he went to prison because he is a serial liar.

    But on the plus side he was a very profitable betting opportunity over the course of his drawn-out demise.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Chris Huhne is exactly the type of Lib Dem that puts Scots off voting Lib Dem. Simon Hughes and Nick Clegg are two others.

    So, more of all three please!

    The Scots LDs still got five more MPs than the SNP did last time.
    I'm not really concerned about "last time" Mike. That is ancient history. What the Scottish Lib Dems really need to start focussing on is "next time". I can smell their breeks filling already.
    As I recall last time you were making the same predictions which turned out to be wrong.

    What odds will you give me on them winning more seats in Scotland at GE2015 than the SNP?

    Mike, are you not going a touch too far ?

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Roger said:

    @Carlotta

    "Tobe can't spell 'bailiwick'..... "

    Nor frame a cogent argument. What a silly article

    And his number of shares are puny in comparison with our own SeanT's.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:
    You know that story is dated 22 January 2011, right?
    Doesn't change anything except to say it's even more biased in October 2013 and definately corrupt.
    So we know from this and today's earlier threads that:
    1) we cannot trust the police
    2) we cannot trust government ministers
    3) we cannot trust the BBC

    What part of the Establishment can we trust?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:
    You know that story is dated 22 January 2011, right?
    Doesn't change anything except to say it's even more biased in October 2013 and definately corrupt.
    So we know from this and today's earlier threads that:
    1) we cannot trust the police
    2) we cannot trust government ministers
    3) we cannot trust the BBC

    What part of the Establishment can we trust?
    Freemasons

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,758
    If there is a disputed account of events, you'd always have to give Osborne the benefit of the doubt over Huhne. Personally I think it's absurd he's still politically active.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    Roger said:

    @Carlotta

    "Tobe can't spell 'bailiwick'..... "

    Nor frame a cogent argument. What a silly article

    And his number of shares are puny in comparison with our own SeanT's.
    Sean's bailiwick is also bigger than Tobe's.

    Sean thrills internationally.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:
    You know that story is dated 22 January 2011, right?
    Doesn't change anything except to say it's even more biased in October 2013 and definately corrupt.
    So we know from this and today's earlier threads that:
    1) we cannot trust the police
    2) we cannot trust government ministers
    3) we cannot trust the BBC

    What part of the Establishment can we trust?
    On PB, only Dr. Sox and Carola.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MikeK said:
    You know that story is dated 22 January 2011, right?
    Hah! My immediate assumption was that he had another book to sell...
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    Yes, I think it would.

    In other news, I see Labour have now caved in on Free Schools and Welfare, as well as having already caved in on the deficit, the OBR, Royal Mail privatisation, and much else. Anyone who doubted that this government was going to achieve lasting radical reforms needs to rethink.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    "Huhne is a great operator – tough, articulate and an effective communicator. He’s also, as recent events have shown, hugely resilient."

    Did you miss out "convicted perjurer"?

    A mere fleshwound
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2013

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    Yes, I think it would.

    In other news, I see Labour have now caved in on Free Schools and Welfare, as well as having already caved in on the deficit, the OBR, Royal Mail privatisation, and much else. Anyone who doubted that this government was going to achieve lasting radical reforms needs to rethink.
    Richard, you are making the mistake of assuming they will do what they say.

    If they give a veto over new free schools to the local authorities, for instance, that will kill the expansion of the sector rather like Brown killed the original Academy programme.

    And you think they won't give into the temptation to spend should they get their grubby mitts on the purse strings?

    Hope springs eternal!
  • Charles said:

    And you think they won't give into the temptation to spend should they get their grubby mitts on the purse strings?

    Well, they probably won't have much choice on that; I expect to see wobbles (especially if it's a weak Labour-led government in a hung parliament) followed by turmoil in the financial markets which will force them, as we have seen with other European countries, to cut spending in a panic.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    Yes, I think it would.

    In other news, I see Labour have now caved in on Free Schools and Welfare, as well as having already caved in on the deficit, the OBR, Royal Mail privatisation, and much else. Anyone who doubted that this government was going to achieve lasting radical reforms needs to rethink.
    Perhaps the office of Leader of Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition should be renamed to Follower of Her Majesty's Most Competent Administration?

    In shortened form. LOTO would become FOCA.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Charles said:

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    Yes, I think it would.

    In other news, I see Labour have now caved in on Free Schools and Welfare, as well as having already caved in on the deficit, the OBR, Royal Mail privatisation, and much else. Anyone who doubted that this government was going to achieve lasting radical reforms needs to rethink.
    If they give a veto over new free schools to the local authorities, for instance, that will kill the expansion of the sector rather like Brown killed the original Academy programme.!
    Which is exactly what Young says they will do - just like Brown/Balls.......

  • Scott_P said:


    But I am being serious. I genuinely do detect tiny, tiny signs of a wee uptick in the SCon VI statistics. The first sign of new life in the SCon base in literally decades. That is interesting. Very interesting. And, if true, it deserves analysis and explanation. And Alastair Darling has got a lot of the explaining to do, because it is largely his fault.

    You are being too modest Stuart.

    The astonishingly cack-handed manner in which the SNP have handled the referendum, their entire reason for being, which seems to be worked out on a series of chip wrappers, probably deserves quite a lot of the credit.

    I have no time or respect for the SNP and am generally contemptuous of all their works, but even I am amazed at just how spectacularly crap they are at this, their one big moment in history.

    All those years, all the effort, blood, sweat and tears, and Eck is going to fluff it.

    Makes me glad to have seen it though...
    Ho ho. It really is like taking candy from a baby. Your "the credit" is the funniest Scottish Tory Surge post of this parliamentary term so far

    By the way Scott, it is traditional to write the post-match report after the final whistle has been blown, but I can fully understand why Unionists want to write it after the first 20 minutes of the game.

    After the Chief Counting Officer has declared the result we'll see exactly who was "astonishingly cack-handed", who "worked things out on a series of chip wrappers", and who was "spectacularly crap". I suspect the answer to none of those questions will be "the Scottish National Party".
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    And you think they won't give into the temptation to spend should they get their grubby mitts on the purse strings?

    Well, they probably won't have much choice on that; I expect to see wobbles (especially if it's a weak Labour-led government in a hung parliament) followed by turmoil in the financial markets which will force them, as we have seen with other European countries, to cut spending in a panic.
    Possibly, but then they haven't really had a change of heart. They are just dissembling.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,671

    Scott_P said:


    But I am being serious. I genuinely do detect tiny, tiny signs of a wee uptick in the SCon VI statistics. The first sign of new life in the SCon base in literally decades. That is interesting. Very interesting. And, if true, it deserves analysis and explanation. And Alastair Darling has got a lot of the explaining to do, because it is largely his fault.

    You are being too modest Stuart.

    The astonishingly cack-handed manner in which the SNP have handled the referendum, their entire reason for being, which seems to be worked out on a series of chip wrappers, probably deserves quite a lot of the credit.

    I have no time or respect for the SNP and am generally contemptuous of all their works, but even I am amazed at just how spectacularly crap they are at this, their one big moment in history.

    All those years, all the effort, blood, sweat and tears, and Eck is going to fluff it.

    Makes me glad to have seen it though...
    Ho ho. It really is like taking candy from a baby. Your "the credit" is the funniest Scottish Tory Surge post of this parliamentary term so far

    By the way Scott, it is traditional to write the post-match report after the final whistle has been blown, but I can fully understand why Unionists want to write it after the first 20 minutes of the game.

    After the Chief Counting Officer has declared the result we'll see exactly who was "astonishingly cack-handed", who "worked things out on a series of chip wrappers", and who was "spectacularly crap". I suspect the answer to none of those questions will be "the Scottish National Party". </blockquote

    Hard to believe a Tory ( though it is Scott ) coming out with such bollocks, the delusion is incredible.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    Yes, I think it would.

    In other news, I see Labour have now caved in on Free Schools and Welfare, as well as having already caved in on the deficit, the OBR, Royal Mail privatisation, and much else. Anyone who doubted that this government was going to achieve lasting radical reforms needs to rethink.
    If they give a veto over new free schools to the local authorities, for instance, that will kill the expansion of the sector rather like Brown killed the original Academy programme.!
    Which is exactly what Young says they will do - just like Brown/Balls.......

    I'd like to point out that I raised that concern in my discussion with SO this morning.... before Toby published his blog.

    Oi, Tobe! Where should I send the invoice?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I suspect the answer to none of those questions will be "the Scottish National Party".

    Smart move to try and distance the Party from the campaign so they can try and ship some of the blame for the disaster and move on.

    It won't work, but it's worth a shot.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:


    Hard to believe a Tory ( though it is Scott ) coming out with such bollocks, the delusion is incredible.

    I am hugely encouraged by the SNPers lining up to protest that the worst referendum campaign in history is going brilliantly...
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2013
    FPT. Malcolmg " Excellent video and frightening the questions asked by some of the university students as part of it, hard to believe they have been in education for at least 13 years."

    Malcolm, its worth noting that these students education has been the sole responsibility of both Lab/Libdem and SNP Governments at Holyrood for 14 years now. That makes your comment about the state of education in Scotland all the more noteworthy.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    And he didn't go to prison for bad driving; it was for serial lying. Idle to speculate now, but if he'd 'fessed up when it all went pear shaped would it have all ended less unhappily for him?

    Yes, I think it would.

    In other news, I see Labour have now caved in on Free Schools and Welfare, as well as having already caved in on the deficit, the OBR, Royal Mail privatisation, and much else. Anyone who doubted that this government was going to achieve lasting radical reforms needs to rethink.
    If they give a veto over new free schools to the local authorities, for instance, that will kill the expansion of the sector rather like Brown killed the original Academy programme.!
    Which is exactly what Young says they will do - just like Brown/Balls.......

    I'd like to point out that I raised that concern in my discussion with SO this morning.... before Toby published his blog.

    Oi, Tobe! Where should I send the invoice?
    Invoyce Dept
    Tobeschool
    Londin
    Says more about the quality of the sub-editors than anything else.

    I'm assuming the Telegraph blogs get subbed. SeanT perhaps you can enlighten us?
This discussion has been closed.