No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
So why did Remainers argue since the referendum result that we should unilaterally guarantee UK resident EU nationals' rights when no such guarantees were forthcoming from the EU? Surely 'taking the moral high ground' was going to lead to a 'generous EU response'?
Because it’s the right thing to do. Human beings should not be used as bargaining chips.
It's all in play. I am a Remainer ( @CarlottaVance pls note) and I advocated a negotiation to determine both sides' citizens.
Moronic Leavers want to choose when nations should be nice and fluffy and seem to be blissfully unaware that all this is precisely what they voted for.
When did you join the DUP :-)
It actually sickens me that Leavers, having voted for all this, then cravenly, like some kind of Stockholm Syndrome, think we should unilaterally give away one of our bargaining chips so that people might be nice to us.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
So why did Remainers argue since the referendum result that we should unilaterally guarantee UK resident EU nationals' rights when no such guarantees were forthcoming from the EU? Surely 'taking the moral high ground' was going to lead to a 'generous EU response'?
Because it’s the right thing to do. Human beings should not be used as bargaining chips.
But if the French do it to resident Brits "its the law"?
Whoever does it it is wrong. However, I don’t think anyone is doing it!
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
1. Negotiations with the EU have led to the inescapable conclusion that the only achievable Brexit is a "No Deal" Brexit. All other possible Brexits require the partitioning of the UK; which is both unacceptable to HMG and unlawful.
2. A "No Deal Brexit" was not presented to the UK electorate as a likely outcome of the Referendum and opinion polls suggest that there is not and never has been a majority for a "No Deal" Brexit.
3. Given that HMG feels that the electorate did not vote for a "No Deal" Brexit and that this is the only available Brexit, then the electorate should vote again to decide in favour of
A. "No Deal Brexit"
or
B. Remain.
And when No Deal wins... ?
Then "No Deal"
I suggested this a couple of days ago. If you get to a position where No Deal is the only option then I think even May can swallow her pride and go back on her word of no 2nd referendum because the result is right at the extreme of the leave options and you can't possibly conclude that the referendum result definitely meant that. If the only options you can achieve are Remain or No Deal then so be it.
Just to make clear the 'so be it' is a referendum on Remain or No Deal as the only, but extreme options.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
The advantage of a police state in Turkey is that nothing goes on without them knowing - for example knowing exactly what's been going on in the Saudi Consulate.
The problem with police states is not how they start, but rather how they end. If the UK government suddenly decided that we're going to abolish parliament, and rule by dictatorship then nothing at all has changed for anyone. It's just the mechanism whereby we enable change has been radically altered, and substantially for the worse.
Whilst on 'states', I think it's a very unfortunate thing for Blair and Clegg to be trying to play a game whereby the EU plays us. It is almost literally treason. At the very least they should acknowledge this, but I think overall that they should just desist. Do whatever you like to scupper matters within the UK, but conspiring with foreign powers to undermine UK democracy. They need to stop that.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the Guardian put it
France has published a draft bill that would allow the government to introduce new legal measures to avoid or mitigate the consequences of a hard Brexit by emergency decree, as opposed to parliamentary vote, within 12 months of the law being passed.
It said those consequences would include include Britons needing visas to visit and UK nationals resident in the country being in an “irregular” legal situation.
Without emergency measures, British citizens living in France would become third-country nationals, the draft bill states, which would prevent them from holding jobs restricted to EU nationals and limit their access to healthcare and welfare.
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Ah, thanks.
What you mean you jumped to a jingoistic nationalistic conclusion? Mon Dieu!
I took the tweet at face value. Not doing your own research is usually a mistake but we don’t always have time and sometimes do rely on trusted sources.
Some of the Remainers on here were very quick to defend such implied actions of France as being totally justified in response to Brexit.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
What is it you don't like that Foxy is saying? You can't sit on both sides of the negotiating table. If you decide something (like leave) it may have consequences that you didn't expect or like.
If I understand Barnier's scheme correctly, for the first time I can see a pathway to a semi workable Brexit. So you have transition period no 1, where you negotiate a backstop workaround. Nominally this is a "customs arrangement" and undefined harmonisation of rules in Northern Ireland and Great Britain that are both the same and different as each other so there is no need for a hard border either in Ireland or the Irish Sea. This is of course strictly time limited. Let's call this arrangement SM+CU for short. We give ourselves an extra year in transition 1 to negotiate the arrangement for transition no 2. In 2022 we move into transition no 2 where we negotiate the final arrangement. By this time the "technical solutions" to the border problem will have revealed themselves and we can begin work on Canada, which will be absolutely super. This should take us to 2032 or thereabouts. We will have been discussing Brexit for fifteen years and the grass will have grown to triffid proportions
By then Chuka Umunna may be PM and we will be back in the single market and customs union anyway
Yeah. Don't underestimate boredom and inertia. Greenland so far is the only territory that has left the EU, primarily to control their fish . After a tough two year negotiation - Greenland's situation is orders of magnitude simpler than ours - they ended up with a fish deal broadly the same as the one they had before. Except now they are cut off from funding, trading opportunities and possibilities for diversification that they would have as EU members. They rely on a single volatile commodity and are highly dependent on their Danish colonial overlords. Anyone with intelligence and drive can see Greenland would be better off in the EU, but there are no serious moves to do so.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the Guardian put it
France has published a draft bill that would allow the government to introduce new legal measures to avoid or mitigate the consequences of a hard Brexit by emergency decree, as opposed to parliamentary vote, within 12 months of the law being passed.
It said those consequences would include include Britons needing visas to visit and UK nationals resident in the country being in an “irregular” legal situation.
Without emergency measures, British citizens living in France would become third-country nationals, the draft bill states, which would prevent them from holding jobs restricted to EU nationals and limit their access to healthcare and welfare.
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Ah, thanks.
What you mean you jumped to a jingoistic nationalistic conclusion? Mon Dieu!
I took the tweet at face value. Not doing your own research is usually a mistake but we don’t always have time and sometimes do rely on trusted sources.
Some of the Remainers on here were very quick to defend such implied actions of France as being totally justified in response to Brexit.
Unlike them, I conceded I was wrong.
If you look at my twitter timeline, you will see that I retweeted Peter Timmins tweet below yesterday, so clearly knew that the French are not making difficulties applying for residence, just struggling with capacity due to demand:
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
What is it you don't like that Foxy is saying? You can't sit on both sides of the negotiating table. If you decide something (like leave) it may have consequences that you didn't expect or like.
The consequence of which is that I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody on here that comments on EFTA has even the slightest idea what's in the treaty.
That is one crisply formatted document. Very satisfying.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
The French are making their soverign decision on the status of 3rd party nationals.
That is what Brexit means. We lose our rights to FOM in the EU27, and all the attached rights and privileges.
I don’t need you to tell me what Brexit means. I know more about the EU and Brexit than you ever will.
The point is there’s no behaviour you’d ever call out as unreasonable by the EU or the EU27 in response to our vote to Leave - no matter how generous the UK was in return - because, for you, anything and everything is justified in response to a vote you despise.
Erugh. Yuk.
Ignore him - this is a man who was prepared to ignore the evidence of anti semitism in Labour because he dislikes the tories more.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Yes, I think you're right. Cole probably misread it.
The wording is obscure: we shall have to wait and see what the French propose, in full.
PS That said, the reaction of people like Foxy was very telling. Remainers sneering smugly and saying this is what Britons deserve.
Yuk.
I did not say it is what Britons deserve, just that their status becomes 3rd party nationals.
Most Britons in the EU are by their very being there pro EU FOM.
really ?
one of my best mates lives there and he makes Farage look a remainer
Yes, I am sure that there are some without insight.
lol
I suspect people living in France have a much better perception of what a unitary EU would be like
There was this rather interesting poll by Yougov that showed Britons want FOM for ourselves in the EU, but not the reverse:
Yes, I think you're right. Cole probably misread it.
The wording is obscure: we shall have to wait and see what the French propose, in full.
PS That said, the reaction of people like Foxy was very telling. Remainers sneering smugly and saying this is what Britons deserve.
Yuk.
The way the French press are reporting it is that No Deal might not be officially confirmed until Feb 2019, and there's not enough time for legislation to be passed, so that's why they are planning on giving Macron emergency powers to make sure Brits living in France don't become stateless next March.
Many Britons in France have already acted. There does not seem to be a lack of willingness by the French to regularise status, though clearly some capacity issues. This tweet antedates today's announcement:
Presumably you have your German Gastarbeiter permit sorted
It is odd that so many have not bothered to get residency. It is required in Spanish law now that you must obtain residency if you stay more than half the year in the country. I think that is the case in most EU countries. Virtually everyone I know here in Spain has resident status.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
Very unlikely.
What is it that makes you think a Consultant is uniquely clever?
Ok, they learn a lot of biology and chemistry by rote, and do a six year medical degree. Then they do years of on the job training, and further post doctorate qualifications.
So do lots of other professions. Architects. Engineers. Top barristers. Many high-flying professionals.
I have no doubt he’s very good at medicine, in the areas he practices in, professionally. That doesn’t make him a genius in the arena of politics, or any better than the rest of us. As he’s amply demonstrated.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
What is it you don't like that Foxy is saying? You can't sit on both sides of the negotiating table. If you decide something (like leave) it may have consequences that you didn't expect or like.
Another moron.
I know that, that’s not the issue.
Do you have a total of us Morons on PB. It wouldn't by any chance coincide with the number of remainers would it?
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
Insurance company Aviva is preparing to transfer the administration of insurance policies from the UK to Ireland, to safeguard against the possible implications of Brexit.
The company is writing to policy holders here to inform them of the proposed changes, which it says will provide certainty into the future.
It says that the UK withdrawal from the European Union may lead to changes in the law that could alter the way Aviva operates in other European countries.
In a letter to customers, the company says Brexit means it is likely to lose the right to offer insurance covering risks in the EU or European Economic Area (EEA) in the same way as it does now.
The move, which has to be approved by a court in Scotland, will involve the transfer of policies from Aviva Insurance Limited in the UK to Aviva Insurance Ireland DAC. This entity will provide cover for all risks situated in the EU or the EEA.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
What is it you don't like that Foxy is saying? You can't sit on both sides of the negotiating table. If you decide something (like leave) it may have consequences that you didn't expect or like.
Another moron.
I know that, that’s not the issue.
Do you have a total of us Morons on PB. It wouldn't by any chance coincide with the number of remainers would it?
Often it does, actually.
It’s destroyed your capacity to think objectively, and without confirmation bias.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Yuk.
I did not say it is what Britons deserve, just that their status becomes 3rd party nationals.
Most Britons in the EU are by their very being there pro EU FOM.
really ?
one of my best mates lives there and he makes Farage look a remainer
Yes, I am sure that there are some without insight.
lol
I suspect people living in France have a much better perception of what a unitary EU would be like
There was this rather interesting poll by Yougov that showed Britons want FOM for ourselves in the EU, but not the reverse:
No, all the countries surveyed were hypocrital to a greater or lesser degree, but as the only nation leaving, we are the only one where the cognitive dissonance collides with reality.
I don't hate my countrymen, indeed I hate no person in the world, but I do not pretend that we are not a deeply flawed bunch.
Insurance company Aviva is preparing to transfer the administration of insurance policies from the UK to Ireland, to safeguard against the possible implications of Brexit.
The company is writing to policy holders here to inform them of the proposed changes, which it says will provide certainty into the future.
It says that the UK withdrawal from the European Union may lead to changes in the law that could alter the way Aviva operates in other European countries.
In a letter to customers, the company says Brexit means it is likely to lose the right to offer insurance covering risks in the EU or European Economic Area (EEA) in the same way as it does now.
The move, which has to be approved by a court in Scotland, will involve the transfer of policies from Aviva Insurance Limited in the UK to Aviva Insurance Ireland DAC. This entity will provide cover for all risks situated in the EU or the EEA.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
What is it you don't like that Foxy is saying? You can't sit on both sides of the negotiating table. If you decide something (like leave) it may have consequences that you didn't expect or like.
Another moron.
I know that, that’s not the issue.
Do you have a total of us Morons on PB. It wouldn't by any chance coincide with the number of remainers would it?
As we all know, correlation does not imply causation.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
Great comeback.
One up from, “you first, brainhurts.”
Ooh, what a sizzler from the master of quick wit and repartee!
Insurance company Aviva is preparing to transfer the administration of insurance policies from the UK to Ireland, to safeguard against the possible implications of Brexit.
The company is writing to policy holders here to inform them of the proposed changes, which it says will provide certainty into the future.
It says that the UK withdrawal from the European Union may lead to changes in the law that could alter the way Aviva operates in other European countries.
In a letter to customers, the company says Brexit means it is likely to lose the right to offer insurance covering risks in the EU or European Economic Area (EEA) in the same way as it does now.
The move, which has to be approved by a court in Scotland, will involve the transfer of policies from Aviva Insurance Limited in the UK to Aviva Insurance Ireland DAC. This entity will provide cover for all risks situated in the EU or the EEA.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Yuk.
I did not say it is what Britons deserve, just that their status becomes 3rd party nationals.
Most Britons in the EU are by their very being there pro EU FOM.
really ?
one of my best mates lives there and he makes Farage look a remainer
Yes, I am sure that there are some without insight.
lol
I suspect people living in France have a much better perception of what a unitary EU would be like
There was this rather interesting poll by Yougov that showed Britons want FOM for ourselves in the EU, but not the reverse:
No, all the countries surveyed were hypocrital to a greater or lesser degree, but as the only nation leaving, we are the only one where the cognitive dissonance collides with reality.
I don't hate my countrymen, indeed I hate no person in the world, but I do not pretend that weare not a deeply flawed bunch.
teY
yet you chose to single us out, why would that be I wonder?
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
Insurance company Aviva is preparing to transfer the administration of insurance policies from the UK to Ireland, to safeguard against the possible implications of Brexit.
The company is writing to policy holders here to inform them of the proposed changes, which it says will provide certainty into the future.
It says that the UK withdrawal from the European Union may lead to changes in the law that could alter the way Aviva operates in other European countries.
In a letter to customers, the company says Brexit means it is likely to lose the right to offer insurance covering risks in the EU or European Economic Area (EEA) in the same way as it does now.
The move, which has to be approved by a court in Scotland, will involve the transfer of policies from Aviva Insurance Limited in the UK to Aviva Insurance Ireland DAC. This entity will provide cover for all risks situated in the EU or the EEA.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
Insurance company Aviva is preparing to transfer the administration of insurance policies from the UK to Ireland, to safeguard against the possible implications of Brexit.
The company is writing to policy holders here to inform them of the proposed changes, which it says will provide certainty into the future.
It says that the UK withdrawal from the European Union may lead to changes in the law that could alter the way Aviva operates in other European countries.
In a letter to customers, the company says Brexit means it is likely to lose the right to offer insurance covering risks in the EU or European Economic Area (EEA) in the same way as it does now.
The move, which has to be approved by a court in Scotland, will involve the transfer of policies from Aviva Insurance Limited in the UK to Aviva Insurance Ireland DAC. This entity will provide cover for all risks situated in the EU or the EEA.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Yuk.
I did not say it is what Britons deserve, just that their status becomes 3rd party nationals.
Most Britons in the EU are by their very being there pro EU FOM.
really ?
one of my best mates lives there and he makes Farage look a remainer
Yes, I am sure that there are some without insight.
lol
I suspect people living in France have a much better perception of what a unitary EU would be like
No, all the countries surveyed were hypocrital to a greater or lesser degree, but as the only nation leaving, we are the only one where the cognitive dissonance collides with reality.
I don't hate my countrymen, indeed I hate no person in the world, but I do not pretend that weare not a deeply flawed bunch.
teY
yet you chose to single us out, why would that be I wonder?
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal. What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
What is it you don't like that Foxy is saying? You can't sit on both sides of the negotiating table. If you decide something (like leave) it may have consequences that you didn't expect or like.
Another moron.
I know that, that’s not the issue.
Do you have a total of us Morons on PB. It wouldn't by any chance coincide with the number of remainers would it?
Often it does, actually.
It’s destroyed your capacity to think objectively, and without confirmation bias.
And that piece of logic can only apply to remainers and not leavers then.
Have you any concept of how stupid that sounds. Do you want to try and apply that logic to any other 2 groups of individuals and see how daft it sounds.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
No, all the countries surveyed were hypocrital to a greater or lesser degree, but as the only nation leaving, we are the only one where the cognitive dissonance collides with reality.
I don't hate my countrymen, indeed I hate no person in the world, but I do not pretend that weare not a deeply flawed bunch.
teY
yet you chose to single us out, why would that be I wonder?
Because we are the people who it affects?
of course.... you had no wish to imply we were worse than others
Insurance company Aviva is preparing to transfer the administration of insurance policies from the UK to Ireland, to safeguard against the possible implications of Brexit.
The company is writing to policy holders here to inform them of the proposed changes, which it says will provide certainty into the future.
It says that the UK withdrawal from the European Union may lead to changes in the law that could alter the way Aviva operates in other European countries.
In a letter to customers, the company says Brexit means it is likely to lose the right to offer insurance covering risks in the EU or European Economic Area (EEA) in the same way as it does now.
The move, which has to be approved by a court in Scotland, will involve the transfer of policies from Aviva Insurance Limited in the UK to Aviva Insurance Ireland DAC. This entity will provide cover for all risks situated in the EU or the EEA.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
The consequence of which is that I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody on here that comments on EFTA has even the slightest idea what's in the treaty.
That is one crisply formatted document. Very satisfying.
Never read such things. The legal documentation is sometimes totally dissociated with what the actual facts are. I'd suggest that 99% of the money transferred ever wasn't strictly in accordance with the legal stuff.
If the UK joined EFTA it just becomes whatever it (EFTA) wants it to be.
The ability of anyone to draw effective lines is pretty small.
Have to admit, the EU refusing to let May have dinner with them is Mean Girls levels of pettiness.
The EU, France and the Remainers all joining forces tonight to show us that they really are a bunch of....
no, no , no - we deserve it apparently
Now imagine those same people and what they would say if the UK acted like that.
You don't need to imagine, I am quite happy to state my views!
We are clearly going to need similar emergency measures so as to be able to deal with this issue in the event of No Deal. Otherwise employers, landlords, banks etc will fall foul of current rules on 3rd party nationals.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the Guardian put it
France has published a draft bill that would allow the government to introduce new legal measures to avoid or mitigate the consequences of a hard Brexit by emergency decree, as opposed to parliamentary vote, within 12 months of the law being passed.
It said those consequences would include include Britons needing visas to visit and UK nationals resident in the country being in an “irregular” legal situation.
Without emergency measures, British citizens living in France would become third-country nationals, the draft bill states, which would prevent them from holding jobs restricted to EU nationals and limit their access to healthcare and welfare.
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Looks like the French are doing the right thing, telling reaction from some of the remainers when it seemed as if they were going to kick the Brits out.
Sometimes it does feel as they are the spiritual successors of the Duke of Windsor.
Glancing over the thread I see people calling each other morons, scumbags and cowards. Who are you trying to impress?
Nick - I have expressed great concern over how many posters are using unnecessary language, sheer arrogance, I know better than you attitude, and much worse.
I do try to argue my case, but am equally up for persuasion if someone can make a better case, but I stop reading once I see this behaviour.
It seems to run through our politics from the highest offices in the land and elsewhere and I will call it out when I see it.
It is not that I am any better than anyone else but everyone, yes everyone, deserves to be treated with respect
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
Have to admit, the EU refusing to let May have dinner with them is Mean Girls levels of pettiness.
The EU, France and the Remainers all joining forces tonight to show us that they really are a bunch of....
no, no , no - we deserve it apparently
Now imagine those same people and what they would say if the UK acted like that.
Your right I wouldn't be happy, but for crying out loud you are negotiating and you have to think of the consequences of your decisions. It is your fault if as a consequence of what you did the other side legitimately do what they decide to do within the terms of what you agreed. You are not 5. You can't stamp your feet and cry its not fair.
"EU Finder Airbaggen frem, mens risikoer for en Brexitkatastrofe vokser" - "EU brings out the airbags as risk of a Brexit catastrophe grows" - Berllingske - centre right Danish paper -
Merkel not the only leader to be getting pressure from business and media about allowing no deal to be an option, and failure to engage properly with the UK - nobody in mainland EU wants no deal - a way is going to be found.
Many will hate it but the UK is leaving the EU, it just might not be in the way most Leavers want or Remainers like or the EU is overjoyed about but a deal will be done - calm down everyone.
I am in Amsterdam next week and looking forward to hearing from Dutch colleagues what they are now thinking.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the Guardian put it
France has published a draft bill that would allow the government to introduce new legal measures to avoid or mitigate the consequences of a hard Brexit by emergency decree, as opposed to parliamentary vote, within 12 months of the law being passed.
It said those consequences would include include Britons needing visas to visit and UK nationals resident in the country being in an “irregular” legal situation.
Without emergency measures, British citizens living in France would become third-country nationals, the draft bill states, which would prevent them from holding jobs restricted to EU nationals and limit their access to healthcare and welfare.
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Looks like the French are doing the right thing, telling reaction from some of the remainers when it seemed as if they were going to kick the Brits out.
Sometimes it does feel as they are the spiritual successors of the Duke of Windsor.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Yes, I think you're right. Cole probably misread it.
The wording is obscure: we shall have to wait and see what the French propose, in full.
PS That said, the reaction of people like Foxy was very telling. Remainers sneering smugly and saying this is what Britons deserve.
Yuk.
I did not say it is what Britons deserve, just that their status becomes 3rd party nationals.
Most Britons in the EU are by their very being there pro EU FOM.
really ?
one of my best mates lives there and he makes Farage look a remainer
Yes, I am sure that there are some without insight.
lol
I suspect people living in France have a much better perception of what a unitary EU would be like
There was this rather interesting poll by Yougov that showed Britons want FOM for ourselves in the EU, but not the reverse:
I think you are saying that if we have a 'soft border' in NI we have to have a soft border everywhere else? I don't believe this is the case.
The purpose of the soft border is simply a different way of enforcing the same rules. The WTO also have dispensations for these types of situations. So on this basis, I do not believe that the proposed ERG solution is in any way incompatible with WTO rules. And of course, the head of HMCE has already confirmed that in a no deal there would be no need to introduce checks at the border; presumably if it really was against WTO rules May would have him screaming it from the rooftops.
It would depend on the dispute resolution mechanism and outcome of the (hated, foreign, supra-national, sovereignty-eating) WTO, which is a member-driven organisation.
They might decide that a hard border (ie checks on everything) was not needed given the special situation of NI/RoI and the history. But the central premise is that if we let EU widgets in without checking them, then the US, say, could bring a dispute against us under MFN demanding that we let their widgets, or perhaps their chicken, likewise in without checks. So the WTO does not mandate a hard border, and nor is one certain as a result of a WTO dispute process.
But one is possible and that is what I am and have been saying Theresa May cannot risk.
No. The vast majority of imports are not checked from non-EU countries at the moment - something like 95% of goods go straight through without being checked based only on their declarations.
Nobody is saying that there will be no checks on widgets crossing the NI border. We are saying the checks will take place away from the border on a random basis based on risk - exactly the same as happens at the moment. There is no WTO rule that says the checks have to be at the border as long as there are checks and enforcement mechanisms.
There will be no real difference although you might argue that the NI border will not be quite as tight, it will fundamentally be the same as any other border and it will not in any way breach WTO rules. Nobody is asking anyone to 'take a chance' - the WTO already has exemptions for special circumstances. If this was really an issue May would have gotten the WTO to say so. HMRC know it will work; the issue has been the EU have said they will not accept it, and that is political.
If 400,000 Brits are applying for residency in France it suggests that estimates of the number of UK citizens living in the EU27 are way too low.
I suspect that many are seasonal residents, rather than permanent. It is quite usual for retired folk to winter abroad, but maintain residence here too.
How could that be true, the EU is the most noble, glorious and civilized entity in the world, and merely being a part of its club elevates all its members as a result, how could they do less than we on something?
How to lose the moral high ground, in one go.
So Britain is generously and unilaterally offering EU citizens guaranteed rights as full UK subjects. France does nothing of the sort in return.
No doubt Remoaners will find some way to blame this on the horrible Brexity Brits. I don't know quite how, though.
I can’t think of anything that will turn the British against the EU more quickly than the French being Gallic twats and threatening us.
Hell, it might even make TSE think twice.
I think Harry Cole is misunderstanding what he's read.
Reading the French press it is clear they are doing this to ensure these Brits in France don't get lost in limbo via legislative delay.
Or as the Guardian put it
France has published a draft bill that would allow the government to introduce new legal measures to avoid or mitigate the consequences of a hard Brexit by emergency decree, as opposed to parliamentary vote, within 12 months of the law being passed.
It said those consequences would include include Britons needing visas to visit and UK nationals resident in the country being in an “irregular” legal situation.
Without emergency measures, British citizens living in France would become third-country nationals, the draft bill states, which would prevent them from holding jobs restricted to EU nationals and limit their access to healthcare and welfare.
I mean I love bashing the nation of collaborators but in this instance it isn't deserved.
Ah, thanks.
What you mean you jumped to a jingoistic nationalistic conclusion? Mon Dieu!
I took the tweet at face value. Not doing your own research is usually a mistake but we don’t always have time and sometimes do rely on trusted sources.
Some of the Remainers on here were very quick to defend such implied actions of France as being totally justified in response to Brexit.
Unlike them, I conceded I was wrong.
Wrong to call French people ‘Gallic twats’, or just factually wrong?
We only don't like it because it does nothing to solve the problem - it is just another mindless concession for no purpose. May seems to think that she can sign a 'permanent' backstop and claim that if the transition period is extended it is 'less likely' to be used. That is just hopeless.
Summary from today - our delusional PM has once again pitched Chequers to the EU and they have once again said no. What is wrong with her? How long do we have to put up with a leader who has no concept of reality?
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
Very unlikely.
What is it that makes you think a Consultant is uniquely clever?
Ok, they learn a lot of biology and chemistry by rote, and do a six year medical degree. Then they do years of on the job training, and further post doctorate qualifications.
So do lots of other professions. Architects. Engineers. Top barristers. Many high-flying professionals.
I have no doubt he’s very good at medicine, in the areas he practices in, professionally. That doesn’t make him a genius in the arena of politics, or any better than the rest of us. As he’s amply demonstrated.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
If 400,000 Brits are applying for residency in France it suggests that estimates of the number of UK citizens living in the EU27 are way too low.
I suspect that many are seasonal residents, rather than permanent. It is quite usual for retired folk to winter abroad, but maintain residence here too.
That may well be true. It’s going to be an option for far fewer people in the future.
If 400,000 Brits are applying for residency in France it suggests that estimates of the number of UK citizens living in the EU27 are way too low.
I suspect that many are seasonal residents, rather than permanent. It is quite usual for retired folk to winter abroad, but maintain residence here too.
On that subject, anyone know what Tyson's up to these days? Haven't seen him on the threads in a while.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
I think you are saying that if we have a 'soft border' in NI we have to have a soft border everywhere else? I don't believe this is the case.
The purpose of the soft border is simply a different way of enforcing the same rules. The WTO also have dispensations for these types of situations. So on this basis, I do not believe that the proposed ERG solution is in any way incompatible with WTO rules. And of course, the head of HMCE has already confirmed that in a no deal there would be no need to introduce checks at the border; presumably if it really was against WTO rules May would have him screaming it from the rooftops.
It would depend on the dispute resolution mechanism and outcome of the (hated, foreign, supra-national, sovereignty-eating) WTO, which is a member-driven organisation.
They might decide that a hard border (ie checks on everything) was not needed given the special situation of NI/RoI and the history. But the central premise is that if we let EU widgets in without checking them, then the US, say, could bring a dispute against us under MFN demanding that we let their widgets, or perhaps their chicken, likewise in without checks. So the WTO does not mandate a hard border, and nor is one certain as a result of a WTO dispute process.
But one is possible and that is what I am and have been saying Theresa May cannot risk.
No. The vast majority of imports are not checked from non-EU countries at the moment - something like 95% of goods go straight through without being checked based only on their declarations.
Nobody is saying that there will be no checks on widgets crossing the NI border. We are saying the checks will take place away from the border on a random basis based on risk - exactly the same as happens at the moment. There is no WTO rule that says the checks have to be at the border as long as there are checks and enforcement mechanisms.
There will be no real difference although you might argue that the NI border will not be quite as tight, it will fundamentally be the same as any other border and it will not in any way breach WTO rules. Nobody is asking anyone to 'take a chance' - the WTO already has exemptions for special circumstances. If this was really an issue May would have gotten the WTO to say so. HMRC know it will work; the issue has been the EU have said they will not accept it, and that is political.
Just had a brief look at that EFTA document linked by @rcs1000, the section on free movement is illuminating. Specifically it only mentions the right to work in other members states or register as self employed. The social security section and equality of treatment is not as onerous as the EU version, but I think EFTA-not EEA would be compatible with our Byzantine benefits system as the other EFTA nations have a much higher PPP per capita that we do and people there are unlikely to want to come here and work in a minimum wage job and claim loads of benefits associated with that.
Otherwise it looks like the kind of group we should absolutely be part of.
We only don't like it because it does nothing to solve the problem - it is just another mindless concession for no purpose. May seems to think that she can sign a 'permanent' backstop and claim that if the transition period is extended it is 'less likely' to be used. That is just hopeless.
Summary from today - our delusional PM has once again pitched Chequers to the EU and they have once again said no. What is wrong with her? How long do we have to put up with a leader who has no concept of reality?
Is this the very same Theresa May you were championing as a shining beacon of truth just a couple of hours ago, when she promised no second referendum?
The consequence of which is that I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody on here that comments on EFTA has even the slightest idea what's in the treaty.
That is one crisply formatted document. Very satisfying.
Never read such things. The legal documentation is sometimes totally dissociated with what the actual facts are. I'd suggest that 99% of the money transferred ever wasn't strictly in accordance with the legal stuff.
If the UK joined EFTA it just becomes whatever it (EFTA) wants it to be.
The ability of anyone to draw effective lines is pretty small.
There is a fundamental issue. EFTA/EEA is not compatible with membership of the CU. Since that is what is required by the EU to 'solve' the NI border, EFTA/EEA membership is not an option in these circumstances.
SM+CU would be a completely new treaty that would need to be negotiated and would take years and need approval from all EU Parliaments. In the meantime, the EU will insist on the backstop in case, for example, Wallonia decide to veto that trade agreement.
We only don't like it because it does nothing to solve the problem - it is just another mindless concession for no purpose. May seems to think that she can sign a 'permanent' backstop and claim that if the transition period is extended it is 'less likely' to be used. That is just hopeless.
Summary from today - our delusional PM has once again pitched Chequers to the EU and they have once again said no. What is wrong with her? How long do we have to put up with a leader who has no concept of reality?
Maybe because she is obviously taking a different course to the hard brexiteers and attempting to agree a deal that protects jobs, jit manufacturing, and keeping the union together whiich is more important to her than giving in to a fairly small group of ultra brexiteers
As long as the cabinet support her there is nothing the utras can do and while you do not support her I and many in the country do
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
Cole is a journalist at a major national newspaper.
He's just made a colossal boob, and will therefore probably get a raise.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
What an arrogant comment and unworthy of you
Hmm, I wouldn't normally get involved in these spats but if the other guy has just called you a moron, fair game, I think.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
Isn't he with BuzzFeed now?
The Sun.
Oh yeah, it was Connor Wickham that went to BuzzFeed.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
Isn't he with BuzzFeed now?
The Sun.
His career started off dismally and got progressively worse from there.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
What an arrogant comment and unworthy of you
Hmm, I wouldn't normally get involved in these spats but if the other guy has just called you a moron, fair game, I think.
The consequence of which is that I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody on here that comments on EFTA has even the slightest idea what's in the treaty.
That is one crisply formatted document. Very satisfying.
Never read such things. The legal documentation is sometimes totally dissociated with what the actual facts are. I'd suggest that 99% of the money transferred ever wasn't strictly in accordance with the legal stuff.
If the UK joined EFTA it just becomes whatever it (EFTA) wants it to be.
The ability of anyone to draw effective lines is pretty small.
There is a fundamental issue. EFTA/EEA is not compatible with membership of the CU. Since that is what is required by the EU to 'solve' the NI border, EFTA/EEA membership is not an option in these circumstances.
SM+CU would be a completely new treaty that would need to be negotiated and would take years and need approval from all EU Parliaments. In the meantime, the EU will insist on the backstop in case, for example, Wallonia decide to veto that trade agreement.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Do not pretend for a second that you would not be saying what a travesty it was if our government declared it was doing the same, that would be insulting. Not least because it pretends that one course of action arising from leaving the EU is an inevitability, when the whole point of negotiating various things, and the discretion afforded to governments world over, means they have a choice about what they do. You are pretending they have no choice, which is absurd.
You are behaving no better than any 'A true brexit must be a super diamond hard brexit that I want' Brexiteer who insists their interpretation alone is correct.
The French are merely preparing for No Deal. Obviously if there is a deal, that applies, via the Withdrawal agreement. No deal means no WA, in which case each country has to apply its rules on 3rd party nationals.
I don’t think there’s any action the EU or any of its member states could take that you wouldn’t excuse.
For you, the fact we’re voted to Leave justifies everything.
Brexit means Brexit. We become 3rd party nationals and are dealt with by relevant national laws in the event of No Deal.
What is it about No Deal Brexit that Brexiteers cannot understand?
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I mean, you don’t even think before you post.
Moron.
Unlikely that a Consultant Dr is a Moron
This one is.
If you are up for a battle of wits, I shall remove 90% of my brain so that we can start even.
What an arrogant comment and unworthy of you
Hmm, I wouldn't normally get involved in these spats but if the other guy has just called you a moron, fair game, I think.
One of the US’s top regulators has threatened to stop European banks from using US futures markets if the EU refuses to water down post-Brexit plans to oversee clearing houses.
Christopher Giancarlo, head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, said on Wednesday that EU plans — ostensibly in response to the UK’s move to leave the EU — were “completely irresponsible” and could be met with a stern reaction from Washington.
“These are blunt and strong tools,” Mr Giancarlo said, acknowledging that it could have a serious impact on global markets. “None of these options represent a course of action that I wish to pursue.”
Mr Giancarlo’s fierce warning comes as UK authorities try to remove tensions with the EU around the issue of clearing as the UK’s departure from the bloc nears.
If a resolution could not be found, he warned the CFTC could unilaterally take its own action — including barring EU banks from using critical US infrastructure such as the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
Cole is a journalist at a major national newspaper.
He's just made a colossal boob, and will therefore probably get a raise.
He was a third-rate Tory propagandist for much of his working life (past tense arguably unnecessary)
No deal means no deal, and Britons in France, Spain or Tuscany become 3rd party nationals, with all the implications of that, under sovereign national law.
What is it about leaving the EU that Brexiteers cannot understand?
Jesus. You're almost gleeful that the EU - in the form of France - is making life horribly uncertain for Brits in France, even as the British government unilaterally guarantees the rights of French people in the UK.
We're the good guys here, they're the bad guys, for once there is no grey area - and yet still you're cheering for the EU? Go jump in a lake.
The French government would look for reciprocal arrangements with the UK covering each others nationals. That's lazy reporting from Mr Cole. This is the French Europe Minister
We should be generous with EU citizens here in the event of no deal. And reciprocate any nonsense from individual states if they insist on going down that path. I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
What path? Mme Loiseau says she expects the French government to treat British nationals well in the hope the British will treat French expats the same. It's a poor bit of reporting that SeanT have jumped on. Just because No Deal requires emergency measures doesn't mean there is no intention of enacting them if required.
More evidence that Twitter ‘journalists’ like the laughable Cole are not worthy of the billing.
Cole is a journalist at a major national newspaper.
He's just made a colossal boob, and will therefore probably get a raise.
He was a third-rate Tory propagandist for much of his working life (past tense arguably unnecessary)
Summary from today - our delusional PM has once again pitched Chequers to the EU and they have once again said no. What is wrong with her? How long do we have to put up with a leader who has no concept of reality?
That's entirely up to her internal party opponents - if she will not stand down and is leading them down the wrong path it is their responsibility to do something. If they do not they are either not being entirely truthful when they claim her way is the wrong way, or...no, that't it I think.
We only don't like it because it does nothing to solve the problem - it is just another mindless concession for no purpose. May seems to think that she can sign a 'permanent' backstop and claim that if the transition period is extended it is 'less likely' to be used. That is just hopeless.
Summary from today - our delusional PM has once again pitched Chequers to the EU and they have once again said no. What is wrong with her? How long do we have to put up with a leader who has no concept of reality?
Maybe because she is obviously taking a different course to the hard brexiteers and attempting to agree a deal that protects jobs, jit manufacturing, and keeping the union together whiich is more important to her than giving in to a fairly small group of ultra brexiteers
As long as the cabinet support her there is nothing the utras can do and while you do not support her I and many in the country do
She can take a different approach, but what is the point of constantly raising a plan that the EU have said is totally unacceptable? She is not doing jobs or anything a favour if she wastes what little time we have left talking about something that is not going to happen. The moment she was finished, the President of the EP came straight out and rejected the Chequers bit again.
And to be fair, hardly anyone in the country supports Chequers.
Comments
It just shows them up to be the cowards they are.
Whoever does it it is wrong. However, I don’t think anyone is doing it!
Brexiteers are overflowing with cognitive dissonance tonight!
Whilst on 'states', I think it's a very unfortunate thing for Blair and Clegg to be trying to play a game whereby the EU plays us. It is almost literally treason. At the very least they should acknowledge this, but I think overall that they should just desist. Do whatever you like to scupper matters within the UK, but conspiring with foreign powers to undermine UK democracy. They need to stop that.
Some of the Remainers on here were very quick to defend such implied actions of France as being totally justified in response to Brexit.
Unlike them, I conceded I was wrong.
Classy, real classy France.
https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1052617368772403200
https://twitter.com/petertimmins3/status/1050400880770596864?s=19
I know that, that’s not the issue.
Don't make an idiot of yourself.
only British?
Sigh you must really hate your fellow countrymen
Ok, they learn a lot of biology and chemistry by rote, and do a six year medical degree. Then they do years of on the job training, and further post doctorate qualifications.
So do lots of other professions. Architects. Engineers. Top barristers. Many high-flying professionals.
I have no doubt he’s very good at medicine, in the areas he practices in, professionally. That doesn’t make him a genius in the arena of politics, or any better than the rest of us. As he’s amply demonstrated.
One up from, “you first, brainhurts.”
How many jobs are transferring exactly?
I work in the Insurance industry and have first hand knowledge of how Insurers and brokers are preparing/
It’s destroyed your capacity to think objectively, and without confirmation bias.
I don't hate my countrymen, indeed I hate no person in the world, but I do not pretend that we are not a deeply flawed bunch.
(don’t run for the hills, please..)
I too also work in an industry/company deeply interconnected with the insurance and intermediary sector.
yet you chose to single us out, why would that be I wonder?
Because those plans are based on no deal
Now imagine those same people and what they would say if the UK acted like that.
Have you any concept of how stupid that sounds. Do you want to try and apply that logic to any other 2 groups of individuals and see how daft it sounds.
tah very much
ps - in full with no editing
https://twitter.com/NathalieLoiseau/status/1047765796607463424
If the UK joined EFTA it just becomes whatever it (EFTA) wants it to be.
The ability of anyone to draw effective lines is pretty small.
We are clearly going to need similar emergency measures so as to be able to deal with this issue in the event of No Deal. Otherwise employers, landlords, banks etc will fall foul of current rules on 3rd party nationals.
Sometimes it does feel as they are the spiritual successors of the Duke of Windsor.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/newly-released-documents-reveal-churchills-efforts-suppress-details-nazi-plot-180964131/
“Duke believes with certainty that continued heavy bombing will make England ready for peace,”
Sounds like the plan Blair and the other quislings have proposed to the EU.
I do try to argue my case, but am equally up for persuasion if someone can make a better case, but I stop reading once I see this behaviour.
It seems to run through our politics from the highest offices in the land and elsewhere and I will call it out when I see it.
It is not that I am any better than anyone else but everyone, yes everyone, deserves to be treated with respect
I think that's correct, generous - but not doormats if push and shove meet.
"EU Finder Airbaggen frem, mens risikoer for en Brexitkatastrofe vokser" - "EU brings out the airbags as risk of a Brexit catastrophe grows" - Berllingske - centre right Danish paper -
Merkel not the only leader to be getting pressure from business and media about allowing no deal to be an option, and failure to engage properly with the UK - nobody in mainland EU wants no deal - a way is going to be found.
Many will hate it but the UK is leaving the EU, it just might not be in the way most Leavers want or Remainers like or the EU is overjoyed about but a deal will be done - calm down everyone.
I am in Amsterdam next week and looking forward to hearing from Dutch colleagues what they are now thinking.
Just because you jump to conclusions does not mean that I do.
Indeed I retweeted yesterday about capacity issues in issuing French residency permits.
Nobody is saying that there will be no checks on widgets crossing the NI border. We are saying the checks will take place away from the border on a random basis based on risk - exactly the same as happens at the moment. There is no WTO rule that says the checks have to be at the border as long as there are checks and enforcement mechanisms.
There will be no real difference although you might argue that the NI border will not be quite as tight, it will fundamentally be the same as any other border and it will not in any way breach WTO rules. Nobody is asking anyone to 'take a chance' - the WTO already has exemptions for special circumstances. If this was really an issue May would have gotten the WTO to say so. HMRC know it will work; the issue has been the EU have said they will not accept it, and that is political.
Summary from today - our delusional PM has once again pitched Chequers to the EU and they have once again said no. What is wrong with her? How long do we have to put up with a leader who has no concept of reality?
I didn’t claim he was ‘uniquely clever’.
I said it was very unlikely he was a moron.
Otherwise it looks like the kind of group we should absolutely be part of.
Is this the very same Theresa May you were championing as a shining beacon of truth just a couple of hours ago, when she promised no second referendum?
SM+CU would be a completely new treaty that would need to be negotiated and would take years and need approval from all EU Parliaments. In the meantime, the EU will insist on the backstop in case, for example, Wallonia decide to veto that trade agreement.
As long as the cabinet support her there is nothing the utras can do and while you do not support her I and many in the country do
He's just made a colossal boob, and will therefore probably get a raise.
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1052653750404435970?s=19
Christopher Giancarlo, head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, said on Wednesday that EU plans — ostensibly in response to the UK’s move to leave the EU — were “completely irresponsible” and could be met with a stern reaction from Washington.
“These are blunt and strong tools,” Mr Giancarlo said, acknowledging that it could have a serious impact on global markets. “None of these options represent a course of action that I wish to pursue.”
Mr Giancarlo’s fierce warning comes as UK authorities try to remove tensions with the EU around the issue of clearing as the UK’s departure from the bloc nears.
If a resolution could not be found, he warned the CFTC could unilaterally take its own action — including barring EU banks from using critical US infrastructure such as the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
https://www.ft.com/content/f9ba5588-d21a-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5
Why is it every single time she goes to one of these bloody summits the news gets worse and worse and worse...
And to be fair, hardly anyone in the country supports Chequers.