So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
Nobody would want them. Incidentally do you mind if I call blacks n****** or people whose ethnicity is from Karachi, pa.... Given you’re happy with bogtrotter.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Seems obvious they'd vote against it, their USP is being angry and saying no to things, and Brexit is a thing.
Indeed, the country appears to be under the control of a tiny cabal of hard-right wing Loyalist bigots. May should tell them to sod off and get her deal through on Labour votes if necessary.
I'm not sure there would be enough Labour votes for the Brexit deal, especially if TMay loses some Tories as well. A deal with the SNP is the obvious way to make up the numbers, but that won't be for free, and there's a risk that the concessions to them would lose more Tories off the other end.
But this seems to be about the budget, which I assume is going to get zero votes from any opposition party. Not sure what happens if the DUP stop voting for supply but keep voting for confidence...
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
Nobody would want them. Incidentally do you mind if I call blacks n****** or people whose ethnicity is from Karachi, pa.... Given you’re happy with bogtrotter.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
I'm being relocated to Germany for the greater good of Brexit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and all that jazz.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
Like Ian Smith when dealing with Wilson the DUP has no understanding of giving a little to save a great deal,
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Seems obvious they'd vote against it, their USP is being angry and saying no to things, and Brexit is a thing.
Indeed, the country appears to be under the control of a tiny cabal of hard-right wing Loyalist bigots. May should tell them to sod off and get her deal through on Labour votes if necessary.
I'm not sure there would be enough Labour votes for the Brexit deal, especially if TMay loses some Tories as well. A deal with the SNP is the obvious way to make up the numbers, but that won't be for free, and there's a risk that the concessions to them would lose more Tories off the other end.
But this seems to be about the budget, which I assume is going to get zero votes from any opposition party. Not sure what happens if the DUP stop voting for supply but keep voting for confidence...
Labour MPs who vote for a May deal in defiance of the Whip would effectively be inviting deselection.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
I'm being relocated to Germany for the greater good of Brexit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and all that jazz.
News just in: you're getting relocated to Belfast.....
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Yup, plus I'd expect a lot of anger towards the Northern Irish from Great Britain if the DUP stopped a good Brexit deal.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
I'm being relocated to Germany for the greater good of Brexit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and all that jazz.
There are worse fates than earning a shedload of money in Germany.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
I'm being relocated to Germany for the greater good of Brexit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and all that jazz.
News just in: you're getting relocated to Belfast.....
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Like the SNP, they're a grievance machine. They will beggar their own voters, and deliver a hard border, and for what? Tools. The Troubles may not be over...
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
I'm being relocated to Germany for the greater good of Brexit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and all that jazz.
News just in: you're getting relocated to Belfast.....
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
I'm being relocated to Germany for the greater good of Brexit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and all that jazz.
There are worse fates than earning a shedload of money in Germany.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
Remember these are the same troglodytes who whipped up riots in response to the Anglo-Irish agreement, and actively campaigned for a NO vote against the Good Friday Agreement, when even the Loyalist Paramilitaries supported it.
Their intransigence in this instance should surprise absolutely nobody.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Yup, plus I'd expect a lot of anger towards the Northern Irish from Great Britain if the DUP stopped a good Brexit deal.
Except, it would be Labour that stopped that good Brexit deal being passed....
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Indeed. I am glad I am not the only one utterly sick of people who voted for Leave and – in the Bigoted Unionist Party's case – actively campaigned for Leave then being angry at the consequences of leaving. If they wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have voted Remain.
Labour MPs who vote for a May deal in defiance of the Whip would effectively be inviting deselection.
Right, so apart from the ones who have already been disowned by their local parties, they'd need something in there to sell their members on it. Not setting fire to the economy isn't going to interest these people, so basically it has to be a re-referendum.
But this also loses Tories, so I'm not sure how the numbers work out.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Yup, plus I'd expect a lot of anger towards the Northern Irish from Great Britain if the DUP stopped a good Brexit deal.
Lol
so because the 600+ GB MPs cant agree among themselves its the fault of 17 MPs in Ireland
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
Racially motivated crimes in Northern Ireland now exceed those connected to traditional sectarian bigotry, police figures show.
Between July 2016 and June 2017, there were 1,062 racist incidents reported to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). In the same period, police recorded 938 incidents involving traditional religious sectarianism.
Yet 83% of recorded race hate crimes did not result in a prosecution nor even a warning to offenders, according to the latest data from the PSNI.
The figures appear to be back anecdotal evidence of a rise in racially motivated attacks in the region.
Figures from the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey, published today, show that more than half of people surveyed would not willingly accept a Muslim (52%) or an Irish Traveller (56%) as a relative by way of marrying a close member of their family.
Other statistics reveal that:
47% of people would not willingly accept a Muslim as a close friend;
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
Remember these are the same troglodytes who whipped up riots in response to the Anglo-Irish agreement, and actively campaigned for a NO vote against the Good Friday Agreement, when even the Loyalist Paramilitaries supported it.
Their intransigence in this instance should surprise absolutely nobody.
Had I been resident there, I doubt whether I would have voted for the GFA.
You do know that English cruise ships, as you call them, are dominated with American passengers. Believe me I have been on many cruise ships and they always have a large number of North American passengers
I think it depends on the cruise line. P&O and Fred Olsen still carry a lot of British passengers but the likes of Celebrity and Royal Caribbean are much more favoured by the American market.
P&O are owned by Carnival Corp too .... US listed.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
I think the twattiness of David Cameron is pretty much the only proposition that everyone on this site will agree to, there's so much consensus that it's hardly worth discussing.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Like the SNP, they're a grievance machine. They will beggar their own voters, and deliver a hard border, and for what? Tools.
I'm no fan of the DUP in general, but on the specific issue of Brexit I really don't see why anyone thinks they are being unreasonable. On the contrary, they are making very good points. It's the EU which is being unreasonable, and which by its intransigence is risking exactly the outcome which it says is a priority to avoid.
Racially motivated crimes in Northern Ireland now exceed those connected to traditional sectarian bigotry, police figures show.
Between July 2016 and June 2017, there were 1,062 racist incidents reported to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). In the same period, police recorded 938 incidents involving traditional religious sectarianism.
Yet 83% of recorded race hate crimes did not result in a prosecution nor even a warning to offenders, according to the latest data from the PSNI.
The figures appear to be back anecdotal evidence of a rise in racially motivated attacks in the region.
Figures from the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey, published today, show that more than half of people surveyed would not willingly accept a Muslim (52%) or an Irish Traveller (56%) as a relative by way of marrying a close member of their family.
Other statistics reveal that:
47% of people would not willingly accept a Muslim as a close friend;
Racially-motivated violence is not unique to Northern Ireland.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Like the SNP, they're a grievance machine. They will beggar their own voters, and deliver a hard border, and for what? Tools.
I'm no fan of the DUP in general, but on the specific issue of Brexit I really don't see why anyone thinks they are being unreasonable. On the contrary, they are making very good points. It's the EU which is being unreasonable, and which by its intransigence is risking exactly the outcome which it says is a priority to avoid.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
I think the twattiness of David Cameron is pretty much the only proposition that everyone on this site will agree to, there's so much consensus that it's hardly worth discussing.
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
I think the twattiness of David Cameron is pretty much the only proposition that everyone on this site will agree to, there's so much consensus that it's hardly worth discussing.
Racially motivated crimes in Northern Ireland now exceed those connected to traditional sectarian bigotry, police figures show.
Between July 2016 and June 2017, there were 1,062 racist incidents reported to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). In the same period, police recorded 938 incidents involving traditional religious sectarianism.
Yet 83% of recorded race hate crimes did not result in a prosecution nor even a warning to offenders, according to the latest data from the PSNI.
The figures appear to be back anecdotal evidence of a rise in racially motivated attacks in the region.
Figures from the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey, published today, show that more than half of people surveyed would not willingly accept a Muslim (52%) or an Irish Traveller (56%) as a relative by way of marrying a close member of their family.
Other statistics reveal that:
47% of people would not willingly accept a Muslim as a close friend;
Racially-motivated violence is not unique to Northern Ireland.
But the incidents per 100,0000 population makes it the most racist place in the UK.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
Racially motivated crimes in Northern Ireland now exceed those connected to traditional sectarian bigotry, police figures show.
Between July 2016 and June 2017, there were 1,062 racist incidents reported to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). In the same period, police recorded 938 incidents involving traditional religious sectarianism.
Yet 83% of recorded race hate crimes did not result in a prosecution nor even a warning to offenders, according to the latest data from the PSNI.
The figures appear to be back anecdotal evidence of a rise in racially motivated attacks in the region.
Figures from the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey, published today, show that more than half of people surveyed would not willingly accept a Muslim (52%) or an Irish Traveller (56%) as a relative by way of marrying a close member of their family.
Other statistics reveal that:
47% of people would not willingly accept a Muslim as a close friend;
Racially-motivated violence is not unique to Northern Ireland.
But the incidents per 100,0000 population makes it the most racist place in the UK.
I imagine that Luton and various other hotspots would comfortably exceed it on a per capita basis.
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
I think the twattiness of David Cameron is pretty much the only proposition that everyone on this site will agree to, there's so much consensus that it's hardly worth discussing.
Bollocks. I'll defend Dave to my dying day.
The referendum train was coming, it just happened on his watch.
All of this could have been avoided if Blair/Brown had delivered the referendum they had promised on Lisbon.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Alternatively they may have thought the EU would compromise and reach a trade deal to ensure that the border could stay open respectfully and without annexing NI.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
You do know that English cruise ships, as you call them, are dominated with American passengers. Believe me I have been on many cruise ships and they always have a large number of North American passengers
I think it depends on the cruise line. P&O and Fred Olsen still carry a lot of British passengers but the likes of Celebrity and Royal Caribbean are much more favoured by the American market.
P&O are owned by Carnival Corp too .... US listed.
Joint UK & US listed, in both the S&P500 and FTSE100
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
I've said for a while May should appoint the DUP to her negotiating team w.r.t. the Irish backstop. Tell Barnier to reach an agreement with the DUP and then we will talk.
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
They should cut out the middle-man and negotiate direct with Barnier.
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
They should cut out the middle-man and negotiate direct with Barnier.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
I think the twattiness of David Cameron is pretty much the only proposition that everyone on this site will agree to, there's so much consensus that it's hardly worth discussing.
Bollocks. I'll defend Dave to my dying day.
The referendum train was coming, it just happened on his watch.
All of this could have been avoided if Blair/Brown had delivered the referendum they had promised on Lisbon.
The referendum was coming but losing it was not inevitable.
I switched sides only after Dave came back with nothing from his negotiations and that applied to many people. Probably enough to swing the referendum result. Had Dave done better in his negotiations, had he rejected their first offers and said "no I can't sell that" then we may have remained.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Like the SNP, they're a grievance machine. They will beggar their own voters, and deliver a hard border, and for what? Tools.
I'm no fan of the DUP in general, but on the specific issue of Brexit I really don't see why anyone thinks they are being unreasonable. On the contrary, they are making very good points. It's the EU which is being unreasonable, and which by its intransigence is risking exactly the outcome which it says is a priority to avoid.
Having a point (I agree that they do) and bringing down the government thus delivering the very thing you didn't want are not the same thing.
I see today is PB's occasional foray into Remainer self-help groupery. 'Leavers, they're so stupid and racist and racist and stupid. I shall stamp my foot over and over and over'. Bless.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
I think the twattiness of David Cameron is pretty much the only proposition that everyone on this site will agree to, there's so much consensus that it's hardly worth discussing.
Bollocks. I'll defend Dave to my dying day.
The referendum train was coming, it just happened on his watch.
All of this could have been avoided if Blair/Brown had delivered the referendum they had promised on Lisbon.
nothing forced Cameron to call the referendum nothing forced Cameron to call it when he did nothing forced Cameron to frame the referendum the way he did
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Like the SNP, they're a grievance machine. They will beggar their own voters, and deliver a hard border, and for what? Tools.
I'm no fan of the DUP in general, but on the specific issue of Brexit I really don't see why anyone thinks they are being unreasonable. On the contrary, they are making very good points. It's the EU which is being unreasonable, and which by its intransigence is risking exactly the outcome which it says is a priority to avoid.
Having a point (I agree that they do) and bringing down the government thus delivering the very thing you didn't want are not the same thing.
But that's exactly what the EU are doing. They're insisting there will be no deal unless there is a backstop, but no deal brings about the hard border. The EU are banking on May blinking and thus they get what they want.
The difference with the DUP is they don't blink. They're prepared to go to the wire to get what they want just as the EU are threatening to. If the government acted more like the DUP the EU might start negotiating.
I see today is PB's occasional foray into Remainer self-help groupery. 'Leavers, they're so stupid and racist and racist and stupid. I shall stamp my foot over and over and over'. Bless.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
I have nothing but admiration for the DUP negotiating team - they are already up £1bn and perhaps more to come.
As for those who called the referendum, we had the situation whereby 4m people were apparently disenfranchised and hence I have no problem with Dave allowing a means for them to have a voice. That's democracy. Of course it also ensured they didn't lose the 2015 election and that's politics.
My point however was none of that, it was that if you voted to Leave you knew that you put into play the status quo in NI.
Wow. The DUP's threat to destroy Theresa's government is explosive. Canada++++++++ has be blown out of the water, but without that the ERG will have her for breakfast. Theresa is up the creak without a paddle and hanging by a thread.
Labour MPs who vote for a May deal in defiance of the Whip would effectively be inviting deselection.
Right, so apart from the ones who have already been disowned by their local parties, they'd need something in there to sell their members on it. Not setting fire to the economy isn't going to interest these people, so basically it has to be a re-referendum.
But this also loses Tories, so I'm not sure how the numbers work out.
It is also far from certain that those MPs who have lost a No Confidence motion will end up being deselected.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
They may feel find the resulting subsidy flow not wholly to their liking.
Like the SNP, they're a grievance machine. They will beggar their own voters, and deliver a hard border, and for what? Tools.
I'm no fan of the DUP in general, but on the specific issue of Brexit I really don't see why anyone thinks they are being unreasonable. On the contrary, they are making very good points. It's the EU which is being unreasonable, and which by its intransigence is risking exactly the outcome which it says is a priority to avoid.
Having a point (I agree that they do) and bringing down the government thus delivering the very thing you didn't want are not the same thing.
Brexit does that to people: the Irish Republic, the EU, the ERG, the LibDems, and Labour Remainers all threaten to deliver the very thing they don't want.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
And our bonkers acceptance of that.
Yes, a mistake, although maybe they just had no choice.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Alternatively they may have thought the EU would compromise and reach a trade deal to ensure that the border could stay open respectfully and without annexing NI.
The EU is alive to the problems that exist on the island of Ireland. They are backing their member, rather than their soon to be ex-member, while acknowledging (ie de-dramatising) the fact that the point cannot be forced home at the expense of peace.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
In these circumstances the DUP toppling Mrs May over Brexit in my view leads to an early election that sees Corbyn head of a multi party coalition.
Wow. The DUP's threat to destroy Theresa's government is explosive. Canada++++++++ has be blown out of the water, but without that the ERG will have her for breakfast. Theresa is up the creak without a paddle and hanging by a thread.
Canada+++ as promised by Tusk but applying to the whole UK not just a part of it is the answer. May should take Tusk up on his offer of Canada+++ and just run with this is the solution for everyone and that the entire UK will be on the same deal.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
Didn't he say that he didn't agree to this?
He did agree to it, he signed up to it.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
Didn't he say that he didn't agree to this?
He did agree to it, he signed up to it.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
As Truman said, "the buck stops here". Ask May what happened to the row of the summer.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
Didn't he say that he didn't agree to this?
He did agree to it, he signed up to it.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
As Reagan said, "the buck stops here". Ask May what happened to the row of the summer.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
No the DUP are great tacticians but crap strategists they have no long term plan.
My guess would be their public statement red lines arent quite so red and that they will hold out for some more pork. Then the fudge machine will kick in and a deal will get done. Pork of course may not mean more cash but a bit of red meat to throw to the faithful. Mr Nabavis suggestion last week on no more retrospective prosecution of secutity forces is the kind of thing theyd like.
Wow. The DUP's threat to destroy Theresa's government is explosive. Canada++++++++ has be blown out of the water, but without that the ERG will have her for breakfast. Theresa is up the creak without a paddle and hanging by a thread.
She has been like that for a long time. But she hangs on with amazing fortitude.
Who knows where this all ends but I still maintain everyone needs to calm down and see what the next 6 weeks brings
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
Didn't he say that he didn't agree to this?
He did agree to it, he signed up to it.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
As Reagan said, "the buck stops here". Ask May what happened to the row of the summer.
David Davis screwed up.
May was in charge. What did Davis do that May didn't want/order him to do?
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
For the same of argument assume Arlene Foster concluded 12 months ago that the best outcome for the DUP was Remain. What would she have done differently? If she or anyone else in the DUP had openly advocated that it could have left them in a worse strategic position. Their best bet is to be absolutely resolute about no divergence or border between NI/GB and force the other parties to draw their own conclusions.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
I have nothing but admiration for the DUP negotiating team - they are already up £1bn and perhaps more to come.
As for those who called the referendum, we had the situation whereby 4m people were apparently disenfranchised and hence I have no problem with Dave allowing a means for them to have a voice. That's democracy. Of course it also ensured they didn't lose the 2015 election and that's politics.
My point however was none of that, it was that if you voted to Leave you knew that you put into play the status quo in NI.
If you live there the status is always at risk, the DUP just love it when they can posture as a result, why wouldnt they play to their strength ?
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
The greater good being what's good for Britain and sod Northern Ireland?
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
People who voted Leave did so within the context of a) the situation between the RoI and NI; and b) the situation between NI and GB.
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Isnt it more likely the complete morons are the people who called a referendum, assumed they couldnt lose it and made no preparations as a result ?
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
I have nothing but admiration for the DUP negotiating team - they are already up £1bn and perhaps more to come.
As for those who called the referendum, we had the situation whereby 4m people were apparently disenfranchised and hence I have no problem with Dave allowing a means for them to have a voice. That's democracy. Of course it also ensured they didn't lose the 2015 election and that's politics.
My point however was none of that, it was that if you voted to Leave you knew that you put into play the status quo in NI.
If you live there the status is always at risk, the DUP just love it when they can posture as a result, why wouldnt they play to their strength ?
Not disagreeing either. Again, though, not the point I was making. And there is at risk and at risk. We are about to enter a super-high-fandangle at risk period.
Wow. The DUP's threat to destroy Theresa's government is explosive. Canada++++++++ has be blown out of the water, but without that the ERG will have her for breakfast. Theresa is up the creak without a paddle and hanging by a thread.
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
Didn't he say that he didn't agree to this?
He did agree to it, he signed up to it.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
As Reagan said, "the buck stops here". Ask May what happened to the row of the summer.
David Davis screwed up.
May was in charge. What did Davis do that May didn't want/order him to do?
You do know that English cruise ships, as you call them, are dominated with American passengers. Believe me I have been on many cruise ships and they always have a large number of North American passengers
I think it depends on the cruise line. P&O and Fred Olsen still carry a lot of British passengers but the likes of Celebrity and Royal Caribbean are much more favoured by the American market.
P&O are owned by Carnival Corp too .... US listed.
Joint UK & US listed, in both the S&P500 and FTSE100
I see today is PB's occasional foray into Remainer self-help groupery. 'Leavers, they're so stupid and racist and racist and stupid. I shall stamp my foot over and over and over'. Bless.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
For the same of argument assume Arlene Foster concluded 12 months ago that the best outcome for the DUP was Remain. What would she have done differently? If she or anyone else in the DUP had openly advocated that it could have left them in a worse strategic position. Their best bet is to be absolutely resolute about no divergence or border between NI/GB and force the other parties to draw their own conclusions.
For the sake of argument if Arlene Foster concluded the best outcome was Remain she could do a lot differently. No need to advocate that, just create the scenario where that is possible which it isn't currently. Easiest way to do that would have been to advocate for a second referendum. This could have been phrased such as 'the Good Friday Agreement was ratified by a referendum, our new settlement should be too'. With that genie out of the bottle there'd be a path to Remain.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
No the DUP are great tacticians but crap strategists they have no long term plan.
My guess would be their public statement red lines arent quite so red and that they will hold out for some more pork. Then the fudge machine will kick in and a deal will get done. Pork of course may not mean more cash but a bit of red meat to throw to the faithful. Mr Nabavis suggestion last week on no more retrospective prosecution of secutity forces is the kind of thing theyd like.
I thought that the "Leave" brigade on here would find the DUP admirable! They have one objective - maintenance of the Union with the UK and they are prepared to stick with the UK whether we Brexit, WTO or Remain. They might even be helping us toward the Hard Brexit so beloved of the Ultra-Brexiteers.
They are standing by the UK 100%. You can cannot buy loyalty like that
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
From their perspective why shouldn't they make Corbyn PM if May is prepared to sell them down the river and put them in a purdah where they have to follow EU rules but have no say in what those rules are?
They need to think about the greater good, take one for the team, they aren't very loyal to the Crown.
Surely, it's the DUP who are preventing the hard Brexit that you so strongly object to? Without Northern Ireland, the government would happily adopt a Canada-type deal.
The DUP are ensuring a no deal/Hard Brexit.
Remember these are the same troglodytes who whipped up riots in response to the Anglo-Irish agreement, and actively campaigned for a NO vote against the Good Friday Agreement, when even the Loyalist Paramilitaries supported it.
Their intransigence in this instance should surprise absolutely nobody.
Had I been resident there, I doubt whether I would have voted for the GFA.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
No the DUP are great tacticians but crap strategists they have no long term plan.
My guess would be their public statement red lines arent quite so red and that they will hold out for some more pork. Then the fudge machine will kick in and a deal will get done. Pork of course may not mean more cash but a bit of red meat to throw to the faithful. Mr Nabavis suggestion last week on no more retrospective prosecution of secutity forces is the kind of thing theyd like.
The Ashers Bakery judgement probably pleases the DUP too (not that I'm implying that this motivated the Supreme Court judges).
The DUP campaigned for Brexit, they warned this is what the consequences would be if we voted to Leave.
This is their mess.
I don't see that. Unless I missed something - and we debated it day in day out for two years - I don't think anyone warned that the EU would insist on a brain-dead idea of a backstop which has the remarkable effect of making what they want to avoid more likely.
There were plenty of warnings that if we voted to leave the single market and customs union it increased the likelihood of a hard border.
... in the absence of a comprehensive trade deal. That is the problem, the entire issue goes back to the EU's bonkers insistence on doing the whole negotiation backwards.
If only Mrs May had appointed David Davis Brexit Secretary, he said this would be so easy.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
Didn't he say that he didn't agree to this?
He did agree to it, he signed up to it.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
As Reagan said, "the buck stops here". Ask May what happened to the row of the summer.
David Davis screwed up.
May was in charge. What did Davis do that May didn't want/order him to do?
She trusted him to do the right thing.
Big mistake.
What right thing has he not done in her eyes with regards to the sequencing of talks?
I see today is PB's occasional foray into Remainer self-help groupery. 'Leavers, they're so stupid and racist and racist and stupid. I shall stamp my foot over and over and over'. Bless.
So the DUP are effectively prepared to make Corbyn PM, you cannot trust the bog-trotters, they made Martin McGuinness Deputy First Minister, we need to expel Northern Ireland from the Union before they make Corbyn PM.
The aim is presumably to get rid of Theresa May not to install Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably they reckon that they can achieve the first without the second occurring. I'm not sure they've worked the mechanics through.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
No the DUP are great tacticians but crap strategists they have no long term plan.
My guess would be their public statement red lines arent quite so red and that they will hold out for some more pork. Then the fudge machine will kick in and a deal will get done. Pork of course may not mean more cash but a bit of red meat to throw to the faithful. Mr Nabavis suggestion last week on no more retrospective prosecution of secutity forces is the kind of thing theyd like.
I thought that the "Leave" brigade on here would find the DUP admirable! They have one objective - maintenance of the Union with the UK and they are prepared to stick with the UK whether we Brexit, WTO or Remain. They might even be helping us toward the Hard Brexit so beloved of the Ultra-Brexiteers.
They are standing by the UK 100%. You can cannot buy loyalty like that
I think youre simply suffering the PB tendancy of black and white Brexit. Most peoples opinions are shades of grey.
basing everyting on the extremes of he other sideis a bit Ulstery :-)
Comments
But this seems to be about the budget, which I assume is going to get zero votes from any opposition party. Not sure what happens if the DUP stop voting for supply but keep voting for confidence...
Take one for the team being have to remain subject to EU jurisdiction but without being in the EU?
I wouldn't accept that and I don't see why they should.
Bog-trotter is a parliamentary term.
Not 232,000?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2584278/top-eu-officials-trying-to-steal-city-trade-as-punishment-for-brexit-says-london-stock-exchange-chief/
Unless they were complete morons, their scenario analysis this would have told them that one of those outcomes was likely (eg. NI in SM/CU, GB in SM/CU, potential reunification of Ireland, etc).
Have you seen the one relating sex to being offered a cup of tea?
Their intransigence in this instance should surprise absolutely nobody.
Idiots.
But this also loses Tories, so I'm not sure how the numbers work out.
so because the 600+ GB MPs cant agree among themselves its the fault of 17 MPs in Ireland
if you want to play blame start with Cameron, he kicked the whole thing off
Racially motivated crimes in Northern Ireland now exceed those connected to traditional sectarian bigotry, police figures show.
Between July 2016 and June 2017, there were 1,062 racist incidents reported to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI). In the same period, police recorded 938 incidents involving traditional religious sectarianism.
Yet 83% of recorded race hate crimes did not result in a prosecution nor even a warning to offenders, according to the latest data from the PSNI.
The figures appear to be back anecdotal evidence of a rise in racially motivated attacks in the region.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/12/racially-motivated-crimes-now-exceed-sectarian-ones-in-northern-ireland
Heck even Amnesty have had to intervene about Northern Ireland's racism.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/northern-ireland-levels-racism-should-shock-us-our-core-says-amnesty
Figures from the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey, published today, show that more than half of people surveyed would not willingly accept a Muslim (52%) or an Irish Traveller (56%) as a relative by way of marrying a close member of their family.
Other statistics reveal that:
47% of people would not willingly accept a Muslim as a close friend;
This is their mess.
The referendum train was coming, it just happened on his watch.
All of this could have been avoided if Blair/Brown had delivered the referendum they had promised on Lisbon.
Like it or lump it the DUP are one of the two best negotiating teams on these islands ( the other is Sinn Fein ) as they have had so much practice. The fact that the Tories are now bricking themselves on what Arlene Foster thinks next just shows how practiced they are. Currently they own you , not the other way around.
P&O is managed from Carnival Southampton.
I switched sides only after Dave came back with nothing from his negotiations and that applied to many people. Probably enough to swing the referendum result. Had Dave done better in his negotiations, had he rejected their first offers and said "no I can't sell that" then we may have remained.
Makes you wonder why he agreed to this sequencing of talks.
The DUP have always been brilliant strategists but the wheels seem to have come off their wagon since they threw in their lot with Brexit based on sentiment rather than acting on cold calculation (which would have led them to back Remain).
nothing forced Cameron to call it when he did
nothing forced Cameron to frame the referendum the way he did
The difference with the DUP is they don't blink. They're prepared to go to the wire to get what they want just as the EU are threatening to. If the government acted more like the DUP the EU might start negotiating.
Presbyterianism is a weird virus.
As for those who called the referendum, we had the situation whereby 4m people were apparently disenfranchised and hence I have no problem with Dave allowing a means for them to have a voice. That's democracy. Of course it also ensured they didn't lose the 2015 election and that's politics.
My point however was none of that, it was that if you voted to Leave you knew that you put into play the status quo in NI.
If he didn't agree to it, why didn't he resign, he promised the row of the summer over it.
My guess would be their public statement red lines arent quite so red and that they will hold out for some more pork. Then the fudge machine will kick in and a deal will get done. Pork of course may not mean more cash but a bit of red meat to throw to the faithful. Mr Nabavis suggestion last week on no more retrospective prosecution of secutity forces is the kind of thing theyd like.
Who knows where this all ends but I still maintain everyone needs to calm down and see what the next 6 weeks brings
Big mistake.
they dont drink
they keep women in their place
observe religion
dont agree with gays
perform Hadj
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1049989071718805505
Looks like the EU have accepted the point I've made many times:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1049989084796588032
They are standing by the UK 100%. You can cannot buy loyalty like that
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nazi-and-confederate-flags-at-belfast-bonfire-site-condemned-by-robinson-and-mcguinness-31360843.html
basing everyting on the extremes of he other sideis a bit Ulstery :-)