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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    tpfkar said:

    She's totally lost me on Brexit, as usual. It was going so well. She needs to appeal to those calling for the People's Vote - that her Brexit will work for them. Mocking them plays well in the hall but terribly in the country.

    Shame.

    yes
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    edited October 2018
    Expletive redacted.
  • Take that Boris
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Really good jab at Boris there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    A compelling conservative argument for refusing to confirm Kavanaugh:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/why-i-wouldnt-confirm-brett-kavanaugh/571936/
    The Brett Kavanaugh who showed up to Thursday’s hearing is a man I have never met, whom I have never even caught a glimpse of in 20 years of knowing the person who showed up to the first hearing. I dealt with Kavanaugh during the Starr investigation, which I covered for the Washington Post editorial page and about which I wrote a book. I dealt with him when he was in the White House counsel’s office and working on judicial nominations and post–September 11 legal matters. Since his confirmation to the D.C. Circuit, he has been a significant voice on a raft of issues I work on. In all of our interactions, he has been a consummate professional. The allegations against him shocked me very deeply, but not quite so deeply as did his presentation. It was not just an angry and aggressive version of the person I have known. It seemed like a different person altogether.

    My cognitive dissonance at Kavanaugh’s performance Thursday is not important. What is important is the dissonance between the Kavanaugh of Thursday’s hearing and the judicial function. Can anyone seriously entertain the notion that a reasonable pro-choice woman would feel like her position could get a fair shake before a Justice Kavanaugh? Can anyone seriously entertain the notion that a reasonable Democrat, or a reasonable liberal of any kind, would after that performance consider him a fair arbiter in, say, a case about partisan gerrymandering, voter identification, or anything else with a strong partisan valence? Quite apart from the merits of Ford’s allegations against him, Kavanaugh’s display on Thursday—if I were a senator voting on confirmation—would preclude my support....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    DavidL said:

    Really good jab at Boris there.

    Yep, the knife goes in just as she begins to wrap up
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    It may just be me, but the way she makes collapse and police into single-syllable words really grates.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Sandpit said:

    This is the speech of the PM’s life. Upbeat and positive for the future.

    Is it positive? The message so far seems to be: "Labour are scary, Boris is scary, Remainers are scary, any option for Brexit that could actually get accepted by the EU is scary, so stick with me, the least scary option, even though I have no policies to improve anything"

    Unless there's a big policy announcement coming
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    tpfkar said:

    She's totally lost me on Brexit, as usual. It was going so well. She needs to appeal to those calling for the People's Vote - that her Brexit will work for them. Mocking them plays well in the hall but terribly in the country.

    Absolutely this.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited October 2018

    Scott_P said:

    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.

    https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1047442523352907776
    That is her basic problem. A large part of the audience she is now trying to talk to have been treated with her by contempt until now and her actions continue to alienate them. Why should they believe a word that she says?
    Her basic problem is that she can't deliver a Brexit that isn't worse in important ways than what we have, but neither Remainers nor Leavers accept that. Remainers don't accept things getting worse when they voted against it. Leavers don't accept that they voted to make things worse.
  • Sandpit said:
    Doesn't his wife have cancer?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    Some good points. But rhetoric and oratory not so much.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    tpfkar said:

    She's totally lost me on Brexit, as usual. It was going so well. She needs to appeal to those calling for the People's Vote - that her Brexit will work for them. Mocking them plays well in the hall but terribly in the country.

    Shame.

    I didn't see any mockery. I did see a determination to respect the decision. She is being opposed by many who are equally determined not to do so. She is right to resist them.
  • OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    May pushing global, free trade Britain and committing to no hard border in Ireland while also now attacking tax and spend Corbynism
  • https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.

    'Back' is, however!
  • Post Brexit Britain is not full of promise, it is full of promises in the plural. Those that have made those promises will need to be held to account.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    'Back' is, however!

    Indeed!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited October 2018

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.

    Dutch word I believe and originally sailors' slang.

    Edit. Back is also Dutch origin, albeit of an earlier loan
  • https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.

    Is it Norse? Danish perhaps? A Danish friend of mine seems particularly fond of the word
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    Too much about "hard work" and families © G. Brown.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Austerity is over
  • FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.

    https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1047442523352907776
    That is her basic problem. A large part of the audience she is now trying to talk to have been treated with her by contempt until now and her actions continue to alienate them. Why should they believe a word that she says?
    Her basic problem is that she can't deliver a Brexit that isn't worse in important ways than what we have, but neither Remainers nor Leavers accept that. Remainers don't accept things getting worse when they voted against it. Leavers don't accept that they voted to make things worse.
    I think if Leavers were to accept that proposition and explain what we actually gain from the trade off then I would have a little more respect for them.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    geoffw said:

    Too much about "hard work" and families © G. Brown.

    Another Brownism is directing what the extra NHS funding will be spent on.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.

    Is it Norse? Danish perhaps? A Danish friend of mine seems particularly fond of the word
    It's "of dubious etymology". Probably Germanic, but late-medieval rather than Anglo-Saxon times.

    We have preserved many splendid Old English swearwords, of course, such as "beallucas".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    Austerity is over

    Indeed. And the priority is more spending, not tax cutting.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Wonder if Shadsy will give an ACCA on that xD ?!
    Even at 50/1 Davidson would be money down the drain, it will never ever happen.
  • FF43 said:

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.

    Dutch word I believe and originally sailors' slang.

    Edit. Back is also Dutch origin, albeit of an earlier loan
    Ah, thanks. So if I say fuckety-fuck, that would be double Dutch?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    DavidL said:

    Austerity is over

    Indeed. And the priority is more spending, not tax cutting.
    Oddly she looks comfortable being PM for the first time since shes been in office
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Wow, we're up to over an hour already aren't we?
  • What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    She seems to have had a better speech than previously, but at the end of the day it is only a speech. What her party does may matter more.

    Interesting times ahead....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Even at 50/1 Davidson would be money down the drain, it will never ever happen.

    Just like she would never, ever win her seat, eh Malky?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Wonder if Shadsy will give an ACCA on that xD ?!
    Even at 50/1 Davidson would be money down the drain, it will never ever happen.
    £10 at 50/1 Malcolm?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    It is vomit inducing to hear this nutter going on about everyone benefiting , same old crap that Tories have waffled about for 12 years and yet it is still all for the few and stuff the many. Is there anyone stupid enough to be taken in by that bullshit other than the few who have made merry at the expense of the many.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.

    then vote LD

    snoozealongwithVince
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.

    Of those 5, only Grayling is in the cabinet. She's hardly pushing them as the vanguard.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Adam Boulton is a complete arse.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    DavidL said:

    Really good jab at Boris there.

    David beating up each other will not help much come next election.
  • What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.

    then vote LD

    snoozealongwithVince

    Or don't vote.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.

    The difference, of course, is that one lot is actually in control of their party and are actively changing it, while the other just aspires to do so.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Really good jab at Boris there.

    David beating up each other will not help much come next election.
    Alex v Nicola ?
  • Wonder how many letters are being withdrawn from Graham Brady

    That was one of her best speeches and got a tremendous reception

    Sky saying she is going nowhere
  • Cant believe (I can) that they've got Owen Jones in to comment on TMay's speech on Radio 5.....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.

    then vote LD

    snoozealongwithVince

    Or don't vote.

    the MRLP is there for a reason :-)
  • What May is missing in her pitch to the centre is that while Corbyn is clearly unelectable, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Leadsom, Patel, Grayling and co are equally as abhorrent. I can't back the anti-Western far left, but that does not mean I am going to support the English nationalist hard right.

    Agreed, though at least at the moment we do not have Rees-Mogg (The Tory equivalent of Corbyn) or Boris-The-Incompetent leading the Tories. More than ever, the voting choice (thanks to our electoral system) will be whom you hate the least. If Labour switched to a more sensible leader it would be a different calculation
  • RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    edited October 2018
    OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    The Labour run Welsh government was the only nation of the UK to see real terms reductions in NHS funding since 2010. They chose to direct money into other areas as part of a wider political programme - and the NHS is in a much worse state than the other side of the border as a result.

    I say that as both an employee and a patient on both sides of the border in recent years.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    DavidL said:

    Austerity is over

    Indeed. And the priority is more spending, not tax cutting.
    The angle to this that's relevant to the betting is that she's making post-Brexit spending promises, as if she expects to still be in the job post-Brexit.
  • OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Well, love her or loathe her, it's difficult to deny Theresa exceeded expectations.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Really good jab at Boris there.

    David beating up each other will not help much come next election.
    Alex v Nicola ?
    Alan, that will not affect anything , the unionist plot will fold. Nothing to see move along move along.
    Nicola needs to stop spending her time worrying about banning chocolate and drinks refills in
    restaurants etc, give up on trying to run everyone's lives and get on with the second referendum
    planning.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Really good jab at Boris there.

    David beating up each other will not help much come next election.
    Alex v Nicola ?
    Alan, that will not affect anything , the unionist plot will fold. Nothing to see move along move along.
    Nicola needs to stop spending her time worrying about banning chocolate and drinks refills in
    restaurants etc, give up on trying to run everyone's lives and get on with the second referendum
    planning.
    malc she's a lawyer, she thinks passing laws are the way to go. It will just be a constant stream of niggling rules to make your life more difficult.
  • malcolmg said:

    It is vomit inducing to hear this nutter going on about everyone benefiting , same old crap that Tories have waffled about for 12 years and yet it is still all for the few and stuff the many. Is there anyone stupid enough to be taken in by that bullshit other than the few who have made merry at the expense of the many.

    There are plenty of people that get taken in by bullshit. Take Brexit as an example. An even better, but similar example is Scottish Nationalism. Scottish Nationalism, English Nationalism, British Nationalism. All the same, based on hatred of others, and are therefore based on a very large pile of bullshit, horseshit and ever other kind of stinking excrement on God's earth.
  • OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    @tis Mrs T's maxim, that in the end socialists always run out of other people's money
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
  • OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
    I do not the answer to that qurstion
  • OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
    The unions would go ape?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
    trades unions ?
  • Time to log off, so sadly I won't have time to read Malcolmg's angry gammon-faced response to my little snipe at his hate filled philosophy.
  • I think we can tentatively say it went better than last year.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
    The unions would go ape?
    Well, apart from that. I doubt there'd be much sympathy from the majority of the public, who saw that change many years ago. And given the finances of many councils, I'd have thought it a fair option to put on the table.

    But leaving the politics aside, are there any legislative / regulatory barriers to prevent a council switching, or - at a lesser level - national agreements that would have to be withdrawn from, where the withdrawal would have other consequences?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited October 2018
    I've been out for my daily xenophobe with the dogs, not only do I see assorted whimpering from Remainers upset that Mummy May didn't give them a big enough hug, which is normal, but that May also gave a decent speech, which is frankly unbelievable.
  • OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
    The unions would go ape?
    Well, apart from that. I doubt there'd be much sympathy from the majority of the public, who saw that change many years ago. And given the finances of many councils, I'd have thought it a fair option to put on the table.

    But leaving the politics aside, are there any legislative / regulatory barriers to prevent a council switching, or - at a lesser level - national agreements that would have to be withdrawn from, where the withdrawal would have other consequences?
    Defined benefit is not necessarily more expensive for employers than defined contribution all other things being equal. However, companies used the switch to reduce their contributions to employee schemes.

    Those employers still supporting a defined benefit scheme might want to wait for interest rates to rise before switching since they may be able to use the surpluses created in pension funds (when interest rates rise) to have a holiday from pension contributions.
  • OchEye said:

    OchEye said:

    Except people's perception and experiences of the NHS, education, council services, emergency services, transport and all, are at opposite from her rhetoric

    They certainly are here in Wales run by labour
    But paid for by Westminster... Sorry, I forget, how much money has been cut from budgets? How many labour councils in Wales have gone bust recently?
    They get more from the exchequer than the english.

    Labour have been in power too long

    This morning our council, Aberconwy, said they are seeking an 11.8% council tax rise on the week they introduced 4 weekly bin collections
    A question for those more in the know about local government / pensions than me. What's stopping councils from switching pension schemes from defined benefit to defined contribution?
    trades unions ?
    trades union?
  • https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1047452133543596034

    Unfortunately Theresa, "f—k" isn't actually of Anglo-Saxon origin, but well done for trying.

    Is it Norse? Danish perhaps? A Danish friend of mine seems particularly fond of the word
    Theresa was describing the word BACK not F**K.

    Old English bæc, of Germanic origin; related to Middle Dutch and Old Norse bak
This discussion has been closed.