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  • Blair was for education, education, education.

    May is for determination, determination, determination.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Jeez when does the speech start?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    That's bordering on funny.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Is this TMay demob happy?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    another zinger
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    She didn't have a choice. Well, she did - she could have resigned but given that she didn't resign, she wasn't strong enough to replace Hammond immediately post-GE. Indeed, by all accounts, she was planning to replace him so while she can be blamed for a lot, I don't think you can lay the whole of the blame for that one at her door. You can of course blame her for the election result and for not then quitting.

    She won't be long gone by next summer - there's too much going on to take two months out on a leadership election - but I do think she'll go during next summer.

    The members will definitely need to have a say next time. That means the windows for May's departure are realistically Summer 2019. Summer 2020, Summer 2021 or after the next election.

    While she could go in Summer 2019, I think it would look quite harsh, particularly if she has managed to get a deal with Brussels. Also there would be pressure on a new leader to have an early election.

    I wonder if it would be better for the Cons to change in 2020. That would allow the new leader 2 years to make a mark but not so long as to become stale.

    I also think the Cons should aim to have the parliament go to 2022 as it allows more time for Lab splits to develop. There would also be the issue of the Corbyn succession
    I agree with your first two paragraphs but I'm afraid some sensible and purposeful ruthlessness is necessary.

    to December 2020, so a change early in that next phase would be less disruptive than towards the end of it.

    However, to return to domestics, what's the big offer on housing? A bit more tax on foreign ownership. It's tinkering at the edges. There needs to be an offer on the scale of right-to-buy, which will heavily tilt the housing market back towards owner-occupiers and away from private landlords (I accept that taking on private landlords will be politically harder than taking on local councils but it needs to be done anyway if the 'party of aspiration' tag is to be meaningful). It's big, bold offers which are needed and she won't do it.
    On housing, there's not much to be done but to continue to encourage building, and wait for rising wages to improve affordability. Introducing things like rent controls would benefit anyone who was currently renting, but kill off the market for anyone wanting to rent in the future.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If Theresa May wants Britain to rediscover a sense of common purpose, she should have spent the last two years not deliberately dividing the country.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    She seems as happy and relaxed as I have seen her.

    Boris has blown his load.

    Could have done without that image an hour before lunch... Thanks for that. :D
  • Boris - this is how you address the nation
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Good shout sticking up for Diane Abbott. That plays well.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    geoffw said:

    Ooh

    Tory MP: We need a strong leader

    James Duddridge has submitted a letter of no confidence in Theresa May.

    The MP for Rochford and Southend East says in his letter to Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 committee: “I am normally a loyalist, served in the Whip’s Office for nearly five years and have never voted against the government.

    “However, there comes a point that blind loyalty is not the right way forward.

    “We need a strong leader, someone who believes in Brexit and someone to deliver what the electorate voted for.

    “The Prime Minister seems incapable of doing this.

    “I have not met a single MP who thinks she will lead us into another election after the last disastrous snap election.

    “We will fail to cut through on issues other than Brexit until we are beyond Brexit, yet the can is kicked further and further down the road.

    “I write this with heavy heart, however we now need a proper leadership election and to move on.”

    Why do this the morning of the speech and not after she's given it? Surely her speech will move the agenda on unless another letter comes out? Whereas if done after the speech this would come across more as a reaction.

    Insread backstabbing her this morning looks like a cowards way of doing it to me. Not quite Mark Reckless but not far off.
    Because his immediate prime interest is in disrupting May's speech.

    Stupid stunt.
    They are pathetic. Hope TM takes them on and wins a vnoc easily
    If she did win comfortably, she'd probably serve through to 2022 which is also a sub-optimal outcome.
    Fine tuning needed. What is the best date for her departure? Before or after 29/3/2019?
    After. Ideally, something like 1 September 2019, following a summer leadership contest.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,301
    Lovely gesture calling out the abuse of Dianne Abbott.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    She said compromise, they're not going to like that
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    If Theresa May wants Britain to rediscover a sense of common purpose, she should have spent the last two years not deliberately dividing the country.

    She had to do her "Crush The Saboteurs" act in order to get Brexiteers to support her.

    She's selling Brexit down the river now so give her credit for that...
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    This is quite good from TMay - I wonder if she can pivot from this polarisation to uniting the country over Brexit which she's struggled so much on?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    GIN1138 said:

    If Theresa May wants Britain to rediscover a sense of common purpose, she should have spent the last two years not deliberately dividing the country.

    She had to do her "Crush The Saboteurs" act in order to get Brexiteers to support her.

    She's selling Brexit down the river now so give her credit for that...
    Perhaps the common purpose she wants is a common desire to have shot of her.
  • Liking this middle ground pragmist pitch vs the left and right purist headbangers.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2018
    Caught 5 minutes of the speech as I was making a cuppa. Was impressed: a more polished delivery; generally warmer.

    Not subtle about Boris and co. She's on the money about the need to compromise, however much that word makes some quarters squeal.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited October 2018



    After. Ideally, something like 1 September 2019, following a summer leadership contest.

    May can step down as Tory leader in the Spring, but remain on as Prime Minister pending the Tories having the whole summer to try to figure out how to stop Boris
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    That said, there's all that stuff about a sinner that repenteth. She might have acknowledged, however, that she hath much to repent about in this area.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Nice skewering Jezza. Get in Tezza.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    Liking this middle ground pragmist pitch vs the left and right purist headbangers.

    I have a feeling she's in the wrong party in this day and age.

    She's a moderate centerist, and thats out of favour in both main parties,
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Good take down of Corbyn. He is a man who hates this country and there's no harm in pointing it out.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Really personal attack on Corbyn. Not saying she is wrong mind.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited October 2018
    This is very good from Mrs May. Twisting the knife into Corbyn and all he stands for.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    malcolmg said:

    Speech now 11.45.

    Why does it keep moving?
    Being edited as each knife goes in her back
    That would not surprise me
  • Liking this middle ground pragmist pitch vs the left and right purist headbangers.

    I have a feeling she's in the wrong party in this day and age.

    She's a moderate centerist, and thats out of favour in both main parties,
    It is where I stand
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited October 2018
    The issue with this compromise malarkey is the same as it always has been.

    The absolute most May can offer without blowing apart whatever remains of her fragile coalition comes nowhere close the absolute least the EU27 is prepared to accept.

    And then when she brings it to Parliament it will die in flames anyway.

    These truths we hold to be self-evident.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    PM’s intro playing now...

    Last Night I Dreamt Somebody Loved Me by The Smiths
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    Boris conspicuous by his absence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293


    She's a moderate centerist, and thats out of favour in both main parties,

    Because it's out of favour with the voters.

    Voters who wanted to Leave despite all the warnings of apocalypse actually voted for radical change.

    They didn't want/expect that absolutely nothing would change and "centrist" Theresa May would sell them down the river.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Fenster said:

    Good shout sticking up for Diane Abbott. That plays well.

    Plays well and reflects well upon her.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    One comment is not going to wash away two years of assault on those outside the circle of trust.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Voters who wanted to Leave despite all the warnings of apocalypse actually voted for radical change.

    They didn't want/expect that absolutely nothing would change and "centrist" Theresa May would sell them down the river.

    https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1047393527607578624
  • TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    Yes, I've always thought that 'For the many, not the few' is rather chilling.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Shout out for Shaun!!!
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    One comment is not going to wash away two years of assault on those outside the circle of trust.
    Quite, her behaviour when she was in a position of dominance, says more about her than her appeals when her back is against the wall.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    One comment is not going to wash away two years of assault on those outside the circle of trust.
    Driven mad by Brexit Alastair ? You should have mentioned it before...

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    One comment is not going to wash away two years of assault on those outside the circle of trust.
    True - but you know, we are where we are.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Agree - we are waiting for the speech. Hopefully that is to follow. And hopefully the ERG tossers will row in behind it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    But it wasn't. It was "for everyone who is willing to work hard and do their best." Important distinction there.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    This in an attempt to turn the oil tanker of Brexit to a more palatable course, isn't it. Running aground rather than dashing on the rocks.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Been a lot of motherhood and apple pie so far. New cancer strategy first bit of substance.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    But it wasn't. It was "for everyone who is willing to work hard and do their best." Important distinction there.
    Nah - it is always "For the Many, not the Few". No one notices the Ts&Cs.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Since Labour's share of the vote is the highest it's been for a very long time, it suggests that this group of people (Labour voters who feel politically homeless under Corbyn but wouldn't rather lop off a limb and vote for the fucking Tories) is a pretty small group of people at the moment

    It's about what I'd expect from May. A stupid, ill-thought out pitch for a largely illusory demographic.
  • TOPPING said:

    Nice comment about for everyone. Takes the sting forever more out of Jezza's for the many.

    I am not so sure. It's kind of like Osborne's We're All in This Together. And that did not turn out to be the case.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Anorak said:
    It might be the best bit of the speech :D
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Scott_P said:
    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.
    Better one sinner that repenteth...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    I doubt the Kavanaugh hearings will make the slightest difference to the midterm election results, they make for good theatre but that is all, Democrats will be turning out to vote against Trump and the GOP Congress, Republicans if they bother to vote to support the President
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Good line 'we cannot outsource our conscience to the Kremlin'!
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    Scott_P said:
    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.
    Agreed. Really interested to see where she goes on Brexit today, given the message of unity so far. This is the best I've heard her in ages so far (mostly because she hasn't mentioned Brexit!)
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Since Labour's share of the vote is the highest it's been for a very long time, it suggests that this group of people (Labour voters who feel politically homeless under Corbyn but wouldn't rather lop off a limb and vote for the fucking Tories) is a pretty small group of people at the moment

    It's about what I'd expect from May. A stupid, ill-thought out pitch for a largely illusory demographic.

    Yet she's PM and you're an attention seeking internet troll. Life's a bummer sometimes.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.

    https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1047442523352907776
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    Who on earth has asked her to rule out no-deal?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    This is a very well delivered speech so far - well practised, good tone.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    PM’s intro playing now...

    Last Night I Dreamt Somebody Loved Me by The Smiths
    I do miss the "like" button sometimes!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:

    I doubt the Kavanaugh hearings will make the slightest difference to the midterm election results, they make for good theatre but that is all, Democrats will be turning out to vote against Trump and the GOP Congress, Republicans if they bother to vote to support the President

    There are at least two known unknowns. First is whether Kavanaugh has a differential impact on women voters; second is whether Never-Trump Republicans will turn out for local races.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Oh

  • Anorak said:
    It might be the best bit of the speech :D
    Dancing Queen - a gay anthem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    GIN1138 said:


    She's a moderate centerist, and thats out of favour in both main parties,

    Because it's out of favour with the voters.

    Voters who wanted to Leave despite all the warnings of apocalypse actually voted for radical change.

    They didn't want/expect that absolutely nothing would change and "centrist" Theresa May would sell them down the river.
    Most Leavers would rather No Deal than too much compromise with the EU but about 60% of the electorate would rather Norway, Canada even Remain than No Deal Brexit
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    She's finally talking up the benefits of Brexit.

    About time..
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:

    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.

    https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1047442523352907776
    That is her basic problem. A large part of the audience she is now trying to talk to have been treated with her by contempt until now and her actions continue to alienate them. Why should they believe a word that she says?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    I would like to switch off those tweets the BBC shows us on the side.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    matt said:



    Since Labour's share of the vote is the highest it's been for a very long time, it suggests that this group of people (Labour voters who feel politically homeless under Corbyn but wouldn't rather lop off a limb and vote for the fucking Tories) is a pretty small group of people at the moment

    It's about what I'd expect from May. A stupid, ill-thought out pitch for a largely illusory demographic.

    Yet she's PM and you're an attention seeking internet troll. Life's a bummer sometimes.
    Ouch. Oxyacetylene burn.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Bad day for the peoplesvote brigade!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    HYUFD said:

    I doubt the Kavanaugh hearings will make the slightest difference to the midterm election results, they make for good theatre but that is all, Democrats will be turning out to vote against Trump and the GOP Congress, Republicans if they bother to vote to support the President

    There are at least two known unknowns. First is whether Kavanaugh has a differential impact on women voters; second is whether Never-Trump Republicans will turn out for local races.
    Dealing with each in turn:-

    1. Probably no more than already exists.

    2. Never-Trump Republicans are about as numerous as unicorns.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    geoffw said:

    I would like to switch off those tweets the BBC shows us on the side.

    You can do this with a browser extension called Stylish if you're reasonably tech-savvy. It would be nice if someone were to create a "No Gobshites" extension that excised all of this automatically but hey.
  • Scott_P said:

    Well quite. She spent two years seeking to grind the faces of the defeated into the dust. Finally, when she runs out of red meat to throw at the unhinged, she realises that was not a particularly smart strategy.

    https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1047442523352907776
    That is her basic problem. A large part of the audience she is now trying to talk to have been treated with her by contempt until now and her actions continue to alienate them. Why should they believe a word that she says?

    She is actively seeking to take opportunities away from British business and British citizens.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Warren looking serious about going for the nomination:
    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/massachusetts-playbook/2018/10/03/warrens-ground-game-angry-and-unafraid-to-show-it-trump-bump-for-retirees-320319

    I don't think she'll get it, but she will almost certainly be among the frontrunners if she commits.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Scott retweets someone called the "Emperor's New Clothes"

    Arf the irony.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mortimer said:

    Bad day for the peoplesvote brigade!

    Yes - it aint happening.

    Bit policy light so far.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Scott_P said:
    Wonder if Shadsy will give an ACCA on that xD ?!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    edited October 2018
    TGOHF said:

    Mortimer said:

    Bad day for the peoplesvote brigade!

    Yes - it aint happening.

    Bit policy light so far.
    I like the 'won't be a people's vote but a politicians vote', and truly hope the social media bods at CCHQ have loads of memes ready on that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    OK now waffle. Brexit bit was nonsensical, obvs. This is the paddling bit. Are Brexiters too stupid to understand?

    Ans: YES. Just clapping the fact that we will soon take our seat at a supranational trade organisation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    My reading is that if Kavanaugh is not confirmed that will fire up Republicans in the elections while it will be the Democrats who’ll be fired up if it goes the other way.

    I think either way will fire up the Democrats.
    Trump's glaring misogyny, and the Republican Congress getting fully on board with it, is not going to be quickly forgotten whether Kavanaugh is on the bench or not.
  • Liking this middle ground pragmist pitch vs the left and right purist headbangers.

    I have a feeling she's in the wrong party in this day and age.

    She's a moderate centerist, and thats out of favour in both main parties,
    It is where I stand
    But not on Brexit?

    Where is the centre re Brexit, BINO?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    TOPPING said:

    OK now waffle. Brexit bit was nonsensical, obvs. This is the paddling bit. Are Brexiters too stupid to understand?

    Ans: YES. Just clapping the fact that we will soon take our seat at a supranational trade organisation.

    She is saying no to the declinists. Good on her.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    Millennium Dome redux in 2022.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    She's totally lost me on Brexit, as usual. It was going so well. She needs to appeal to those calling for the People's Vote - that her Brexit will work for them. Mocking them plays well in the hall but terribly in the country.

    Shame.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    This is the speech of the PM’s life. Upbeat and positive for the future.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Anorak said:
    It might be the best bit of the speech :D
    The dancing thing is a bit overplayed now.
  • Three great lines

    "We had a people's vote and the people voted to leave"
    "A second referendum will be a politicians' vote"
    "Not for the few, not even for the many, but for everyone who works hard"

    Two or three bits of policy and no coughing disaster and this could be a good speech.
  • geoffw said:

    Millennium Dome redux in 2022.

    Oh dear.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Nigelb said:

    My reading is that if Kavanaugh is not confirmed that will fire up Republicans in the elections while it will be the Democrats who’ll be fired up if it goes the other way.

    I think either way will fire up the Democrats.
    Trump's glaring misogyny, and the Republican Congress getting fully on board with it, is not going to be quickly forgotten whether Kavanaugh is on the bench or not.

    Indeed. And it is how Independents see it that will swing it anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    geoffw said:

    Millennium Dome redux in 2022.

    Festival of the Many, Not the Few...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK now waffle. Brexit bit was nonsensical, obvs. This is the paddling bit. Are Brexiters too stupid to understand?

    Ans: YES. Just clapping the fact that we will soon take our seat at a supranational trade organisation.

    She is saying no to the declinists. Good on her.
    Nah she's wrapping the Union Jack around her and waffling.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    tpfkar said:

    She's totally lost me on Brexit, as usual. It was going so well. She needs to appeal to those calling for the People's Vote - that her Brexit will work for them. Mocking them plays well in the hall but terribly in the country.

    Shame.

    Yeah it is a bit "citizens of nowhere". How are all the people who want a second referendum supposed to feel when she tells them they don't count as people?
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