Mr. Glenn, second referendum enthusiasts would be wise to make those the options, if they actually get another vote.
It'd depress Leave voter turnout because at least some will be unhappy with the deal (and probably the second vote itself). A straight Remain/Leave re-run would be likelier to go Leave again.
But whatever happens, this will rumble on for decades.
A straight Leave/Remain rerun boils down to those two options anyway, because unless Leave is accompanied by overthrowing the government, it will mean accepting the deal they've negotiated.
They need to have a deal first. If they go for the one recently trailed then the DUP may not like it:
"On Monday, ex-Brexit minister Steve Baker told Sky News that if true, the proposal would probably see the DUP "bring down the government". "
The proposal on a Customs Union is not for a final deal but to resolve the Irish backstop issue for a withdrawal agreement and transition period.
Even if the ERG and DUP oppose it I think enough Labour and LD backbenchers could support it to get the transition period
Lab, could easily support a Customs Union
Dont think May can survive one as leader of Tories though
Depends, a majority of Tory MPs are still not in the ERG
So, for those who haven't checked the news yet today, how was Boris's speech? Passionate but empty of detail? Surprisingly insightful? A damp squib? Glorified only by the true believers? Has he swayed the doubters?
Boris played a set of his greatest hits. Nothing new. I don't think he'll chart again.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Mr. Glenn, second referendum enthusiasts would be wise to make those the options, if they actually get another vote.
It'd depress Leave voter turnout because at least some will be unhappy with the deal (and probably the second vote itself). A straight Remain/Leave re-run would be likelier to go Leave again.
But whatever happens, this will rumble on for decades.
A straight Leave/Remain rerun boils down to those two options anyway, because unless Leave is accompanied by overthrowing the government, it will mean accepting the deal they've negotiated.
They need to have a deal first. If they go for the one recently trailed then the DUP may not like it:
"On Monday, ex-Brexit minister Steve Baker told Sky News that if true, the proposal would probably see the DUP "bring down the government". "
All the more reason to jump straight to proposing a referendum. That would neutralise any attempt to bring down the government from any quarter.
But wouldn't proposing one bring down the government anyway?
Not if they get the timing and presentation right. It would instantly transform the political landscape.
We're talking about May, Hammond et al. They have trouble walking in a straight line. The idea that May is some kind of political Moriarty with an infeasibly cunning plan for reverse-ferreting the UK back into the EU is, in my view, wishful thinking of the first water.
William will believe anything if it is anti Brexit. He's been sent mad by it. I reckon he is Andrew Adonis.
I had an inkling that William was mildly fond of the EU. But some straws are too frail to be grasped and May having any political nous is such a one.
He may not be "fond" of the EU at all. He might be like me and recognise that it is far from perfect as an institution, but that Brexit is a collective insanity that is mainly advocated by morons, nationalistic nutjobs and opportunist egotists. (I'll let you guess who falls in the last category).
William is fond of the EU in the same way that Tony Montana was fond of Columbian marching powder.
Mr. Glenn, second referendum enthusiasts would be wise to make those the options, if they actually get another vote.
It'd depress Leave voter turnout because at least some will be unhappy with the deal (and probably the second vote itself). A straight Remain/Leave re-run would be likelier to go Leave again.
But whatever happens, this will rumble on for decades.
A straight Leave/Remain rerun boils down to those two options anyway, because unless Leave is accompanied by overthrowing the government, it will mean accepting the deal they've negotiated.
They need to have a deal first. If they go for the one recently trailed then the DUP may not like it:
"On Monday, ex-Brexit minister Steve Baker told Sky News that if true, the proposal would probably see the DUP "bring down the government". "
All the more reason to jump straight to proposing a referendum. That would neutralise any attempt to bring down the government from any quarter.
But wouldn't proposing one bring down the government anyway?
Not if they get the timing and presentation right. It would instantly transform the political landscape.
We're talking about May, Hammond et al. They have trouble walking in a straight line. The idea that May is some kind of political Moriarty with an infeasibly cunning plan for reverse-ferreting the UK back into the EU is, in my view, wishful thinking of the first water.
William will believe anything if it is anti Brexit. He's been sent mad by it. I reckon he is Andrew Adonis.
I had an inkling that William was mildly fond of the EU. But some straws are too frail to be grasped and May having any political nous is such a one.
He may not be "fond" of the EU at all. He might be like me and recognise that it is far from perfect as an institution, but that Brexit is a collective insanity that is mainly advocated by morons, nationalistic nutjobs and opportunist egotists. (I'll let you guess who falls in the last category).
William makes the EU sound like far worse an institution than it is - heartless, unstoppably acquisitive and uncaring, something that must be accepted as a crushing inevitability. Even if Brexit is what you believe, I regret to say William is very good at making a case for leave. Better, indeed, than many leave campaigners, who it is true tended to overpromise.
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
Mr Kle4, you may be right, though it underlines a problem that I think has dogged the whole debate, that "The EU" is referred to as though it is an amorphous mass. There is a minority view in Europe that would like it this way, but in reality it is a club made up of 28/27 sovereign states. "The EU" is no more a single thinking body than "The Jews" or "The Foreigners", but it helps people that hate such groups to encourage us all to think that way. If William helps with that thinking you may be right, but I do think you possibly deliberately misrepresent him
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
And in the case of Brexit, it looks terrible, so what does that mean...?
Mr Kle4, you may be right, though it underlines a problem that I think has dogged the whole debate, that "The EU" is referred to as though it is an amorphous mass. There is a minority view in Europe that would like it this way, but in reality it is a club made up of 28/27 sovereign states. "The EU" is no more a single thinking body than "The Jews" or "The Foreigners", but it helps people that hate such groups to encourage us all to think that way. If William helps with that thinking you may be right, but I do think you possibly deliberately misrepresent him
I'm not misrepresenting him, I certainly do not think that is the picture he intends to paint of the EU, but it the interpretation I draw from how he describes it, and its ruthlessness and inevitability. It isn't because I want to believe that of the EU either - I may have voted leave, but that was not because I have an inherent dislike of the dream of what the EU could be, and I do not think it is as bad as William, unintentionally, makes it sound. But with all respect to him, as he is a good chap, he does attempt to sell that dream at all.
The point remains though that people did a poor job selling a positive image of the EU in the referendum, and making the EU sound bad by talk of it browbeating us, as some do, is probably not hugely persuasive either. If there is a second referendum, and I think there will be, I hope someone puts a more positive case on it.
A straight Leave/Remain rerun boils down to those two options anyway, because unless Leave is accompanied by overthrowing the government, it will mean accepting the deal they've negotiated.
They need to have a deal first. If they go for the one recently trailed then the DUP may not like it:
"On Monday, ex-Brexit minister Steve Baker told Sky News that if true, the proposal would probably see the DUP "bring down the government". "
All the more reason to jump straight to proposing a referendum. That would neutralise any attempt to bring down the government from any quarter.
But wouldn't proposing one bring down the government anyway?
Not if they get the timing and presentation right. It would instantly transform the political landscape.
We're talking about May, Hammond et al. They have trouble walking in a straight line. The idea that May is some kind of political Moriarty with an infeasibly cunning plan for reverse-ferreting the UK back into the EU is, in my view, wishful thinking of the first water.
William will believe anything if it is anti Brexit. He's been sent mad by it. I reckon he is Andrew Adonis.
I had an inkling that William was mildly fond of the EU. But some straws are too frail to be grasped and May having any political nous is such a one.
He may not be "fond" of the EU at all. He might be like me and recognise that it is far from perfect as an institution, but that Brexit is a collective insanity that is mainly advocated by morons, nationalistic nutjobs and opportunist egotists. (I'll let you guess who falls in the last category).
William makes the EU sound like far worse an institution than it is - heartless, unstoppably acquisitive and uncaring, something that must be accepted as a crushing inevitability. Even if Brexit is what you believe, I regret to say William is very good at making a case for leave. Better, indeed, than many leave campaigners, who it is true tended to overpromise.
The EU is none of those things, but the underlying economic logic of why leaving will be a disaster for the EU is. In science fiction terms, we’re heading into a “The Cold Equations” situation. We haven’t yet stowed away on the emergency supplies ship, but we’re plannjng to. I pray we will change our mind before it’s too late.
A straight Leave/Remain rerun boils down to those two options anyway, because unless Leave is accompanied by overthrowing the government, it will mean accepting the deal they've negotiated.
They need to have a deal first. If they go for the one recently trailed then the DUP may not like it:
"On Monday, ex-Brexit minister Steve Baker told Sky News that if true, the proposal would probably see the DUP "bring down the government". "
All the more reason to jump straight to proposing a referendum. That would neutralise any attempt to bring down the government from any quarter.
But wouldn't proposing one bring down the government anyway?
Not if they get the timing and presentation right. It would instantly transform the political landscape.
We're talking about May, Hammond et al. They have trouble walking in a straight line. The idea that May is some kind of political Moriarty with an infeasibly cunning plan for reverse-ferreting the UK back into the EU is, in my view, wishful thinking of the first water.
William will believe anything if it is anti Brexit. He's been sent mad by it. I reckon he is Andrew Adonis.
I had an inkling that William was mildly fond of the EU. But some straws are too frail to be grasped and May having any political nous is such a one.
He y).
William makes the EU sound like far worse an institution than it is - heartless, unstoppably acquisitive and uncaring, something that must be accepted as a crushing inevitability. Even if Brexit is what you believe, I regret to say William is very good at making a case for leave. Better, indeed, than many leave campaigners, who it is true tended to overpromise.
The EU is none of those things, but the underlying economic logic of why leaving will be a disaster for the EU is. In science fiction terms, we’re heading into a “The Cold Equations” situation. We haven’t yet stowed away on the emergency supplies ship, but we’re plannjng to. I pray we will change our mind before it’s too late.
We might well yet, but next time (and I do think there will be a second referendum somehow) I would advise against a campaign talking of how useless it is to stand up to the european imperium. Most don't, and when some do (in a supposedly positive way), it hardens leavers who might flip like me for instance.
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
And in the case of Brexit, it looks terrible, so what does that mean...?
"Former UKIP leadership candidate Bill Etheridge resigns
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
"Former UKIP leadership candidate Bill Etheridge resigns
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
Mr Kle4, you may be right, though it underlines a problem that I think has dogged the whole debate, that "The EU" is referred to as though it is an amorphous mass. There is a minority view in Europe that would like it this way, but in reality it is a club made up of 28/27 sovereign states. "The EU" is no more a single thinking body than "The Jews" or "The Foreigners", but it helps people that hate such groups to encourage us all to think that way. If William helps with that thinking you may be right, but I do think you possibly deliberately misrepresent him
I'm not misrepresenting him, I certainly do not think that is the picture he intends to paint of the EU, but it the interpretation I draw from how he describes it, and its ruthlessness and inevitability. It isn't because I want to believe that of the EU either - I may have voted leave, but that was not because I have an inherent dislike of the dream of what the EU could be, and I do not think it is as bad as William, unintentionally, makes it sound.
The point remains though that people did a poor job selling a positive image of the EU in the referendum, and making the EU sound bad by talk of it browbeating us, as some do, is probably not hugely persuasive either. If there is a second referendum, and I think there will be, I hope someone puts a more positive case on it.
Unfortunately there has rarely been anyone in the UK that has put a positive case for the EU, unlike the rest of the member states. We were reluctant members, and though I think Brexit is insane, I do see that it might have been better had we not gone in. There have been huge benefits to this country from membership, and a lot of those benefits came as a result of British influence (Thatcherite reforms, the Single Market etc.), but all our moronic press and politicians can bleat on about is the negative and the downright silly. It is a crying shame.
"Former UKIP leadership candidate Bill Etheridge resigns
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Mr. Glenn, second referendum enthusiasts would be wise to make those the options, if they actually get another vote.
It'd depress Leave voter turnout because at least some will be unhappy with the deal (and probably the second vote itself). A straight Remain/Leave re-run would be likelier to go Leave again.
But whatever happens, this will rumble on for decades.
A straight Leave/Remain rerun boils down to those two options anyway, because unless Leave is accompanied by overthrowing the government, it will mean accepting the deal they've negotiated.
They need to have a deal first. If they go for the one recently trailed then the DUP may not like it:
"On Monday, ex-Brexit minister Steve Baker told Sky News that if true, the proposal would probably see the DUP "bring down the government". "
The proposal on a Customs Union is not for a final deal but to resolve the Irish backstop issue for a withdrawal agreement and transition period.
Even if the ERG and DUP oppose it I think enough Labour and LD backbenchers could support it to get the transition period
Lab, could easily support a Customs Union
Dont think May can survive one as leader of Tories though
Depends, a majority of Tory MPs are still not in the ERG
"Former UKIP leadership candidate Bill Etheridge resigns
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
Not that I am invested in the question, but my sense has generally been that there was clear blue water between UKIP and the likes of BNP, EDL and other nasties.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news, and very entertaining. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
"Former UKIP leadership candidate Bill Etheridge resigns
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
"Former UKIP leadership candidate Bill Etheridge resigns
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
Not that I am invested in the question, but my sense has generally been that there was clear blue water between UKIP and the likes of BNP, EDL and other nasties.
I don't spend a lot of time on it (they are, after all, the Norwegian Blue of political parties) but it seems to me that the water was neither clear nor particularly deep. Indeed they seemed to all fish in the same cesspools.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
Gove.
Reckless of you. His educational reforms are rising to a very crescendo of scandal that could have fearsome implications for the government.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
Gove.
Reckless of you. His educational reforms are heating up to a very crescendo of scandal that could have fearsome implications for the government.
He is very much The Last Jedi of politics.
Nonetheless you can make a case for him: he's very bright, feisty, speaks very well, is unruffled in interviews, takes a strategic view, and would fight Corbynism vigorously. Of course he woudn't be my first choice by any means.
There is no case to be made for JRM, and you have to suspend a lot of disbelief to make a case for Boris, for all his talents.
Part of me says it's a sign of a Party which is confident of remaining in power whatever which can indulge in such seemingly negative self-publicity.
Perhaps the Conservatives genuinely believe that however bad they get, as long as the alternative is Corbyn, they will always have the support of at least 40% of the electorate.
They may be right but they only have to be wrong once.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
Gove.
Reckless of you. His educational reforms are rising to a very crescendo of scandal that could have fearsome implications for the government.
He is very much The Last Jedi of politics.
Would that be the same Last Jedi that made $1.3 billion at the box office and has a 91% rating on Rotten Tomatoes?
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
Gove.
Reckless of you. His educational reforms are rising to a very crescendo of scandal that could have fearsome implications for the government.
He is very much The Last Jedi of politics.
Would that be the same Last Jedi that made $1.3 billion at the box office and has a 91% rating on Rotten Tomatoes?
But...but some people online think parts of it make no sense!
Just kidding, making money and even critical approval are no guarantees of quality unfortunately, there are plenty of successful, well reviewed movies I think are bad.
I can only think of one MP who has publically said he was withdrawing his letter (though I've forgotten who it was) - so Brady is specifically calling him a liar.
Part of me says it's a sign of a Party which is confident of remaining in power whatever which can indulge in such seemingly negative self-publicity.
Perhaps the Conservatives genuinely believe that however bad they get, as long as the alternative is Corbyn, they will always have the support of at least 40% of the electorate.
They may be right but they only have to be wrong once.
A government with a lower approval rating than Gordon Brown in 2009 (!!!!) leads in the polls. It's very hard to think that anyone other than Corbyn could achieve this.
A government with a lower approval rating than Gordon Brown in 2009 (!!!!) leads in the polls. It's very hard to think that anyone other than Corbyn could achieve this.
Indeed but to what extent will this Conservative self-indulgence continue to be tolerated by the electorate?
As long as Corbyn is Labour leader or even after that?
So what. It does not matter who backs it you need to showchowcit would happen
Also it is not certain who would win
Binary choice: Ratify the Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke Article 50. It's the right thing to do and whoever wins, it will legitimise the outcome.
Having a WTO Brexit would mean we don't want to ratify the Withdrawal Agreement (paying money to he EU) nor revoke Article 50 (which is not ours to revoke).
I disagree with you here. I think it doesn't matter so much (in terms of medium term economic growth) what kind of Brexit we have, but it does matter that we have an orderly transition to it.
So, we need to negotiate bilateral corporate tax treaties with the EU-27 during a transition period, for example, and to ensure that (as much as possible) existing EU trading arrangements are replicated.
Agreed. In all honesty, a 7 year transition would make more sense on the way out just as we had on the way in.
But, there is zero trust on either side for that and the long-term planning and politics that’d be required to build a consensus around that are totally non-existent.
IANAE on GPS, but it wouldn't surprise me if Williamson was correct. For instance, Russia recently opened a ground station for Glosnass in Nicaragua, and another in SA.
Part of me says it's a sign of a Party which is confident of remaining in power whatever which can indulge in such seemingly negative self-publicity.
Perhaps the Conservatives genuinely believe that however bad they get, as long as the alternative is Corbyn, they will always have the support of at least 40% of the electorate.
They may be right but they only have to be wrong once.
A government with a lower approval rating than Gordon Brown in 2009 (!!!!) leads in the polls. It's very hard to think that anyone other than Corbyn could achieve this.
The 2010-15 government regularly had approval ratings about as low as the current government though, and Miliband failed miserably against them.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
Gove.
Reckless of you. His educational reforms are rising to a very crescendo of scandal that could have fearsome implications for the government.
He is very much The Last Jedi of politics.
Would that be the same Last Jedi that made $1.3 billion at the box office and has a 91% rating on Rotten Tomatoes?
But...but some people online think parts of it make no sense!
Just kidding, making money and even critical approval are no guarantees of quality unfortunately, there are plenty of successful, well reviewed movies I think are bad.
Subjectively you will find someone who dislikes any film, that does not change the fact success of a film is judged by box office takings and critical response in that order
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
Years ago Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo had an informal rule which was (I think!) that if a film was promoted on posters on bus shelters, it was going to be bad. The one exception they could think of was Sean of the Dead.
There some films I like - and even love - that the critics hated, and some that the critics loved than I hated.
An example of the former is Battleship: a fairly ridiculous premise, and some leaden dialogue, but quite good in other ways and ten times better than any of the Terminator franchise.
An example of the latter was Inception: as boring as heck, with characters who served no purpose and a plot that was meant to be confusing but was easy to follow: then again, we loved Primer ...
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
Years ago Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo had an informal rule which was (I think!) that if a film was promoted on posters on bus shelters, it was going to be bad. The one exception they could think of was Sean of the Dead.
There some films I like - and even love - that the critics hated, and some that the critics loved than I hated.
An example of the former is Battleship: a fairly ridiculous premise, and some leaden dialogue, but quite good in other ways and ten times better than any of the Terminator franchise.
An example of the latter was Inception: as boring as heck, with characters who served no purpose and a plot that was meant to be confusing but was easy to follow: then again, we loved Primer ...
Sean of the Dead was one of those funnier in theory than in practice deals, like spinal tap.
I can only think of one MP who has publically said he was withdrawing his letter (though I've forgotten who it was) - so Brady is specifically calling him a liar.
An MP is a liar? surprise.surprise...Most MP's have been at least economical with the truth. Would you count yourself amongst such company?
IANAE on GPS, but it wouldn't surprise me if Williamson was correct. For instance, Russia recently opened a ground station for Glosnass in Nicaragua, and another in SA.
Does look like a bit of a gap wrt the Falklands though - don't think there are any French rocks down there.
They don't have to be at sea, though. Patagonia would work, for instance.
You’re taking geopolitical risk on the location
They probably assumed the UK was a stable long term partner
And we would be if they didn’t decide that we were a risk for some reason
It would be interesting to know what the base stations are used for: I assume they are needed where they are to allow constant or near-constant contact with all the satellites in the constellation, so that if any commands are required (as an example, perhaps a manoeuvre to avoid orbital debris) it can be done in a timely manner as all satellites will always be able to 'see' at least one station.
In which case, the risk of 'losing' a station isn't automatically disastrous, as they orbit twice a day, and will soon be within sight of another station.
It might be that the stations need codes for the military aspects, and they don't want to share those with us. But that could probably be got around as well.
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Nah, at a political conference everyone wants to go to an event that looks like it will make the news. Which this one clearly was. It isn't a comment either pro or anti that it was well attended.
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
Years ago Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo had an informal rule which was (I think!) that if a film was promoted on posters on bus shelters, it was going to be bad. The one exception they could think of was Sean of the Dead.
There some films I like - and even love - that the critics hated, and some that the critics loved than I hated.
An example of the former is Battleship: a fairly ridiculous premise, and some leaden dialogue, but quite good in other ways and ten times better than any of the Terminator franchise.
An example of the latter was Inception: as boring as heck, with characters who served no purpose and a plot that was meant to be confusing but was easy to follow: then again, we loved Primer ...
Sean of the Dead was one of those funnier in theory than in practice deals, like spinal tap.
I loved Sean of the Dead.
Ii actually preferred the second film in the trilogy, Hot Fuzz. Although it perhaps didn't travel well: an American guy thought it was ridiculous, as the central premise of people wanting to win a 'best kept village' competition would never happen, and the entire concept of such a competition was silly ...
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
Only second? Which one of Gove and the Moggster do you rate more highly than Boris?
It would be interesting to know what the base stations are used for
Apparently the Falklands/Ascension stations are purely "Sensor Stations". Presumably the more ground stations that can see a satellite at once, the more accurate its location can be pinpointed for calibration purposes (the on-board clocks will drift).
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
Years ago Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo had an informal rule which was (I think!) that if a film was promoted on posters on bus shelters, it was going to be bad. The one exception they could think of was Sean of the Dead.
There some films I like - and even love - that the critics hated, and some that the critics loved than I hated.
An example of the former is Battleship: a fairly ridiculous premise, and some leaden dialogue, but quite good in other ways and ten times better than any of the Terminator franchise.
An example of the latter was Inception: as boring as heck, with characters who served no purpose and a plot that was meant to be confusing but was easy to follow: then again, we loved Primer ...
Sean of the Dead was one of those funnier in theory than in practice deals, like spinal tap.
I loved Sean of the Dead.
Ii actually preferred the second film in the trilogy, Hot Fuzz. Although it perhaps didn't travel well: an American guy thought it was ridiculous, as the central premise of people wanting to win a 'best kept village' competition would never happen, and the entire concept of such a competition was silly ...
The whole cornetto trilogy is stupidly brilliant (perhaps have adjective and adverb the wrong way round there) but actually I thought The World’s End was by far the best, having only got round to watching it for the first time this year. It’s worth it just for the first visual gag on chain pubs.
Lib Dems Broken. Labour Broken. Tories Broken. Britain Broken.
Cheer up.
It’s really not that bad.
It might just be. Have you ever seen all our political parties so screwed up at the same time? That this happens during some of the most critical decisions is a concern. Unprecedented, or at least not seen since the 1920s.
The trailers looked bloody awful, which is rarely a good sign - even terrible movies can usually be made to look, even poorly thought out half finished movies.
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
Years ago Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo had an informal rule which was (I think!) that if a film was promoted on posters on bus shelters, it was going to be bad. The one exception they could think of was Sean of the Dead.
There some films I like - and even love - that the critics hated, and some that the critics loved than I hated.
An example of the former is Battleship: a fairly ridiculous premise, and some leaden dialogue, but quite good in other ways and ten times better than any of the Terminator franchise.
An example of the latter was Inception: as boring as heck, with characters who served no purpose and a plot that was meant to be confusing but was easy to follow: then again, we loved Primer ...
Sean of the Dead was one of those funnier in theory than in practice deals, like spinal tap.
I loved Sean of the Dead.
Ii actually preferred the second film in the trilogy, Hot Fuzz. Although it perhaps didn't travel well: an American guy thought it was ridiculous, as the central premise of people wanting to win a 'best kept village' competition would never happen, and the entire concept of such a competition was silly ...
The whole cornetto trilogy is stupidly brilliant (perhaps have adjective and adverb the wrong way round there) but actually I thought The World’s End was by far the best, having only got round to watching it for the first time this year. It’s worth it just for the first visual gag on chain pubs.
It would be interesting to know what the base stations are used for
Apparently the Falklands/Ascension stations are purely "Sensor Stations". Presumably the more ground stations that can see a satellite at once, the more accurate its location can be pinpointed for calibration purposes (the on-board clocks will drift).
Thanks. In which case I fail to see the problem from the EU's perspective - just pay us a little money for the use of the stations. It'd be far cheaper than producing new stations. I'm probably missing something - perhaps they're afraid we could spoof the satellites with inaccurate adjustments or something.
Nor, as polling shows, is No Deal acceptable to most voters in the UK
I’ve not followed recent polling that closely - is there any single specific form of Brexit (rather than nebulous leaving with no defined destination) that beats remaining in the EU in a forced binary choice?
Lib Dems Broken. Labour Broken. Tories Broken. Britain Broken.
Cheer up.
It’s really not that bad.
It might just be. Have you ever seen all our political parties so screwed up at the same time? That this happens during some of the most critical decisions is a concern. Unprecedented, or at least not seen since the 1920s.
Lib Dems Broken. Labour Broken. Tories Broken. Britain Broken.
Cheer up.
It’s really not that bad.
It might just be. Have you ever seen all our political parties so screwed up at the same time? That this happens during some of the most critical decisions is a concern. Unprecedented, or at least not seen since the 1920s.
Nah, it’s not.
Sometimes I come on here after a busy day at work and realise we all live on a different planet on here. Politics is politics. Britain is actually doing ok.
If politics really is that bad then it’s politics and politicians who only have themselves to blame, not the voters who have been far too frustrated for far too long, patronised and talked down to.
Thanks. In which case I fail to see the problem from the EU's perspective - just pay us a little money for the use of the stations. It'd be far cheaper than producing new stations. I'm probably missing something - perhaps they're afraid we could spoof the satellites with inaccurate adjustments or something.
Doesn't seem to bother the Americans with their monitoring stations for GPS. Most are on US territory or permanent foreign bases (eg Diego Garcia, Ascension, Bahrain, S Korea), but they have some abroad: Ecuador, Uruguay, Argentina, Australia and NZ.
I'll say this for Brexit. It is an education. I learnt today that the EU now has a ratchet clause in any trade deal to which it agrees. This means that any benefits that are offered to future partners have also to apply to the EU. So if we do leave the Customs Union and get better deals than we currently have with anywhere that has a deal with the EU, well the EU will get them too. So that's nice. In fact it will be rather like being in the Customs Union in a lot of ways.
Lib Dems Broken. Labour Broken. Tories Broken. Britain Broken.
Cheer up.
It’s really not that bad.
It might just be. Have you ever seen all our political parties so screwed up at the same time? That this happens during some of the most critical decisions is a concern. Unprecedented, or at least not seen since the 1920s.
Lib Dems Broken. Labour Broken. Tories Broken. Britain Broken.
Cheer up.
It’s really not that bad.
It might just be. Have you ever seen all our political parties so screwed up at the same time? That this happens during some of the most critical decisions is a concern. Unprecedented, or at least not seen since the 1920s.
Nah, it’s not.
Sometimes I come on here after a busy day at work and realise we all live on a different planet on here. Politics is politics. Britain is actually doing ok.
If politics really is that bad then it’s politics and politicians who only have themselves to blame, not the voters who have been far too frustrated for far too long, patronised and talked down to.
We need politics to solve problems and find compromise. The country is split down the middle and the parties are polarised. It’s a problem when the government cannot even negotiate with itself.
I didn’t realise the DUP had taken to capitalising ‘NO’ in writing as well as speech these days.
The interesting comment is Unionists. That incudes Ruth Davidson and Paul Davies, new conservative leader in Wales
It is bizarre to reflect that in a very short time the only Welsh party leader who will have served more than six months is Kirsty Williams, whose electoral performance is the worst of the lot.
When the Praetorian Guard got into assassination it didn't tend to go well for the ruler. Is his group now ready to challenge May if they don't hear what they want to hear tomorrow morning?
Can anyone with a straight face say the Tories aren't completely bonkers?
They're queuing up to eulogize Boris.
Apparently there were 1500 people at the Boris fringe, and the Conference Hall which has a capacity of 3000 was half empty at the time.Tory Activists were queing round the block to get in with some Boris fans arriving at 9am to get a seat for his 1pm speech
Boris is box office and news, and very entertaining. If I was attending the Conference, I'd have wanted to attend his speech. That doesn't alter the fact that of all the people who have been mooted as possible successors to Theresa May, he is second to bottom of the lot in my view. I expect a lot of those in that audience of 1500 feel that way.
OK. Which of John McConnell and Jeremy Corbyn to do you rate more highly than Boris?
I didn’t realise the DUP had taken to capitalising ‘NO’ in writing as well as speech these days.
The interesting comment is Unionists. That incudes Ruth Davidson and Paul Davies, new conservative leader in Wales
It is bizarre to reflect that in a very short time the only Welsh party leader who will have served more than six months is Kirsty Williams, whose electoral performance is the worst of the lot.
Paul Davies speech to conference was very impressive
Comments
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-blasts-mays-chequers-brexit-plans-a-cheat-a3951381.html?amp
Edit - at least my autocorrect is duly patriotic and refuses to accept 'oui!'
The reviews for Venom are in, and it is being described as Catwoman bad.
https://www.gamesradar.com/catwoman-level-bad-the-first-reactions-to-venom-are-in-and-ooft/
There's probably a corollary to politics there - even the bad can be made to look good, so if ti looks bad, it is probably terrible.
The point remains though that people did a poor job selling a positive image of the EU in the referendum, and making the EU sound bad by talk of it browbeating us, as some do, is probably not hugely persuasive either. If there is a second referendum, and I think there will be, I hope someone puts a more positive case on it.
be a disaster for the EU is. In science fiction terms, we’re heading into a “The Cold Equations” situation. We haven’t yet stowed away on the emergency supplies ship, but we’re plannjng to. I pray we will change our mind before it’s too late.
A former UKIP leadership candidate has left the party and branded it a "vehicle of hate towards Muslims and the gay community".
In a resignation letter, West Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge said changes made since current leader Gerard Batten took over have "changed the party beyond all recognition"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45723490
Boris doesn't even lead the ITV evening news
In all seriousness, was it a well delivered speech at least?
Time for boots to be filled on Valencia winning?
Hunt and Javid have underwhelmed but Boris in the end was the same
At present the only grown up is TM
He is very much The Last Jedi of politics.
There is no case to be made for JRM, and you have to suspend a lot of disbelief to make a case for Boris, for all his talents.
He is a disgrace to the club and should be sacked immediately
https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1047180860489945088
Amusing.
Part of me says it's a sign of a Party which is confident of remaining in power whatever which can indulge in such seemingly negative self-publicity.
Perhaps the Conservatives genuinely believe that however bad they get, as long as the alternative is Corbyn, they will always have the support of at least 40% of the electorate.
They may be right but they only have to be wrong once.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Last_Jedi
Just kidding, making money and even critical approval are no guarantees of quality unfortunately, there are plenty of successful, well reviewed movies I think are bad.
But, there is zero trust on either side for that and the long-term planning and politics that’d be required to build a consensus around that are totally non-existent.
They probably assumed the UK was a stable long term partner
And we would be if they didn’t decide that we were a risk for some reason
There some films I like - and even love - that the critics hated, and some that the critics loved than I hated.
An example of the former is Battleship: a fairly ridiculous premise, and some leaden dialogue, but quite good in other ways and ten times better than any of the Terminator franchise.
An example of the latter was Inception: as boring as heck, with characters who served no purpose and a plot that was meant to be confusing but was easy to follow: then again, we loved Primer ...
In which case, the risk of 'losing' a station isn't automatically disastrous, as they orbit twice a day, and will soon be within sight of another station.
It might be that the stations need codes for the military aspects, and they don't want to share those with us. But that could probably be got around as well.
More information needed ...
Ii actually preferred the second film in the trilogy, Hot Fuzz. Although it perhaps didn't travel well: an American guy thought it was ridiculous, as the central premise of people wanting to win a 'best kept village' competition would never happen, and the entire concept of such a competition was silly ...
Nothing to see here!!
Good time to do a speech
https://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Navigation/World_of_Galileo
Which is an improvement over last year.
It’s really not that bad.
I didn’t realise the DUP had taken to capitalising ‘NO’ in writing as well as speech these days.
Sometimes I come on here after a busy day at work and realise we all live on a different planet on here. Politics is politics. Britain is actually doing ok.
If politics really is that bad then it’s politics and politicians who only have themselves to blame, not the voters who have been far too frustrated for far too long, patronised and talked down to.
Also some panic coming from Ireland today
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Mixed-sex civil partnerships to be legalised. Why not for siblings too?