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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405

    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Why should there be a different regulatory regime in GB and NI for womens' bodies? Surely unacceptable?

    Because of devolution.

    Liberals believe in devolution and localism.
    Nah it’s a cake and eat it strategy and we know what happens to those.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078
    John_M said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    There will be a SAWS scheme of some sort. Relax, your future supply of cheap strawberries is assured.
    It’s opportunities for my grandchildren to see the world that I’m worried about!

    In Essex, years ago, there were widespread ‘Pick your Own’ schemes for strawberries and very popular they were, too.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    what time is BoJo's speech?

    One. I've already made arrangements to be out.
    Thanks
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    God Javid is boring but credit for laughing at his own power stance.
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    Sean_F said:

    11.12: Newsflash from America: E-commerce giant Amazon is DOUBLING its minimum wage, for US workers.

    It will now pay at least $15 per hour, up from $7.25 previously.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/02/oil-four-year-high-iran-sanctions-trump-italy-budget-eurozone-business-live

    Newsflash: Amazon is also hiking its minimum wage in the UK too.

    It just announced it will now pay at least £10.50 per hour in London, and £9.50 across the rest of the UK.

    As in America, the rise will apply to all full-time, part-time, temporary (including those hired by agencies), and seasonal employees from the start of November.
    That seems out of character for Amazon.
    It avoids Amazon making profits and having to pay corporation tax.

    Pay rises for Amazon workers at the expense of governments.
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    TOPPING said:

    what time is BoJo's speech?


    Not just when but where?
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    llefllef Posts: 298
    amazon have announced that US workers will be paid a minimum of 15 USD an hour, and UK workers 9.50 GBP from later this year.

    maybe, just maybe, wage growth is returning to anglo-saxon economies?

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1047079496598376448

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited October 2018

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, it’s something similar to the USA/Canada Trusted Trader scheme, which operates along long unmanned sections of their shared border.

    Regular border crossers fill in a form online with details of truck and cargo, paying taxes and tarrifs as appropriate. Occasional crossers can either register for the scheme or use the existing self-assessment procedures for VAT to square duties. Police and customs in the border region stop vehicles based on intelligence (as they do now) but there are no checks at the border. No physical border infrastructure is required except for the existing ANPR cameras that read numberplates of vehicles crossing the border, again as they do now.

    Do you have a link explaining this? I googled it up and the what I'm seeing doesn't seem to match your description at all - it seems like there are lots of areas without physical barriers, but if you try to cross there you'll get arrested - see https://www.quora.com/Are-there-really-parts-of-the-US–Canada-border-that-are-unprotected
    Canada have a scheme of registered travellers who are allowed to cross borders in rural areas. https://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/canpass/rabc-pfre/menu-eng.html

    The main difference between this border and Ireland is that policing of the border in Ireland is only necessary for goods, not for people who are covered by the Common Travel Area agreement which isn’t changing.
    If you look that up it's just a couple of weird, exceptional areas - the middle of a national park, islands where hardly anyone lives the border is really unhelpful etc. And it doesn't seem to be anything to do with the Trusted Trader thing you mentioned, which seems to be a way of making the checks go faster at border controls, not a way of getting across the border without going through one.
    https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/exp/index is the new software Canada are using for large volume exporters of goods to make their declarations online. The customs officials use this information to decide whether to search vehicles as they cross the border, the difference in Ireland would be that the information-led searches would take place away from the border, as they do now.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited October 2018
    Who says they are the snowflake generation...

    https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/1046729798519848960
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,040

    stodge said:


    It's all "Comedy Gold". The Tories are, well, being Tories, Labour don't know their arse from there elbow, and you've got Vince Cable as your main man, with a coronation for Swinson once Invisible Vince fades away completely.

    The problem is Vince has always been a transitional leader - everyone knows that. There won't be a coronation, of that I am now certain.

    Layla Moran will run and I think she will win - she was impressive at our Conference but then every partisan thinks all their speakers are excellent. Some would say there have already been five speeches at the Conservative Conference worthy of Cicero (the Roman not the former contributor on here).

    As I'm diametrically opposed to the main plank of LD policy, I'm currently fairly semi-detached in my support but then I look over at the Conservative and Labour parties and see a lot of virtue in political non-alignment but you can't vote Non-Aligned at an election and I always vote.

    The LD Party has to accept we will be leaving the EU and should be agitating for a deal as close to BINO as possible in that regard so staying in the CU as a minimum. Hoping somehow the whole thing can be stopped/reversed is simply a fool's errand.

    You should stand for LD leader Stodge.
    The next LD leader will be Aimee Challenor. 100% Guaranteed.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    TOPPING said:

    God Javid is boring but credit for laughing at his own power stance.

    try Sarah Woollaston, drying paint has never looked so exciting
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,092
    DavidL said:

    Off-topic: with splendidly ironic timing, a lady physicist has won the Nobel Prize.

    Arthur Ashkin, Gérard Mourou and Donna Strickland win Nobel physics prize

    American, Frenchman and Canadian awarded 9m Swedish kronor (£770,000) prize for work on advances in laser physics

    Ashkin wins half of the prize for his development of “optical tweezers” which have allowed tiny organisms to be handled with light beams. Mourou and Strickland share a quarter of the prize each “for their method of generating high-intensity, ultra-short optical pulses,” the Nobel committee said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/02/arthur-ashkin-gerard-mourou-and-donna-strickland-win-nobel-physics-prize

    She is apparently the first woman to win even a share of the Physics Nobel for 55 years. The Italian was basically unhappy, as I understand it, that women were being promoted because they were women and not on merit because there was a desire to achieve gender equality. Nobels are not everything but this does tend to suggest that those women given these promoted posts are not being immensely creative with the positions they are given.
    The Italian made accusations, which have been denied.

    I am generally sceptical about his position. I have heard the same about female engineers in the tech industry, and the anecdata from the ones in my little corner indicate exactly the opposite.

    I'd argue that because so many barriers are put in the way of women going into tech, that the ones who do make it through tend to be more focused and hungry than the men on average.

    Yes, I know more brilliant men than women. Then again, there are an order of magnitude more men. I'd argue that the median skill level of women I've encountered in the industry is higher than that of the men - sometimes because they've had more of a fight to get where they have.
  • Options

    Who says they are the snowflake generation...

    https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/1046729798519848960

    A cultural appropriate from deaf people
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791

    TOPPING said:

    God Javid is boring but credit for laughing at his own power stance.

    try Sarah Woollaston, drying paint has never looked so exciting
    Ah, but worthy paint....
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    So it's less then 6 months until Brexit and apparently they're still talking about using a blockchain for the Irish border.

    You guys are so fucked.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Sean_F said:

    11.12: Newsflash from America: E-commerce giant Amazon is DOUBLING its minimum wage, for US workers.

    It will now pay at least $15 per hour, up from $7.25 previously.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/02/oil-four-year-high-iran-sanctions-trump-italy-budget-eurozone-business-live

    Newsflash: Amazon is also hiking its minimum wage in the UK too.

    It just announced it will now pay at least £10.50 per hour in London, and £9.50 across the rest of the UK.

    As in America, the rise will apply to all full-time, part-time, temporary (including those hired by agencies), and seasonal employees from the start of November.
    That seems out of character for Amazon.
    When I first saw it, I thought I bet they don't include temps or subsidiaries etc. But it seems its everybody, including WholeFoods.
    Fair play to them for doing that, that’s £19k a year for basically unskilled warehouse work.

    Also a useful advert for them, just as they ramp up staff numbers before Christmas.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Why should there be a different regulatory regime in GB and NI for womens' bodies? Surely unacceptable?
    then stop paying their MLAs salaries, theyre paid to review legislation
    That might focus Arlene’s mind....along with NI - UK regulatory alignment on gay marriage and abortion....since “regulatory alignment” is such an important principle.
    Social issues are devolved, product standards aren’t.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    DavidL said:

    Off-topic: with splendidly ironic timing, a lady physicist has won the Nobel Prize.

    Arthur Ashkin, Gérard Mourou and Donna Strickland win Nobel physics prize

    American, Frenchman and Canadian awarded 9m Swedish kronor (£770,000) prize for work on advances in laser physics

    Ashkin wins half of the prize for his development of “optical tweezers” which have allowed tiny organisms to be handled with light beams. Mourou and Strickland share a quarter of the prize each “for their method of generating high-intensity, ultra-short optical pulses,” the Nobel committee said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/02/arthur-ashkin-gerard-mourou-and-donna-strickland-win-nobel-physics-prize

    She is apparently the first woman to win even a share of the Physics Nobel for 55 years. The Italian was basically unhappy, as I understand it, that women were being promoted because they were women and not on merit because there was a desire to achieve gender equality. Nobels are not everything but this does tend to suggest that those women given these promoted posts are not being immensely creative with the positions they are given.
    Donna Strickland is only an associate professor (reader in old money) according to her university's site, which has not yet caught up with the news (time zones!) so I guess she will be in for fairly instant promotion before the job offers start rolling in from the US.

    The prize is for work done decades ago, as most Nobels are. Interestingly, she was a PhD student so back in the old days, everyone would have assumed it was her supervisor who deserved the credit. But the time delay and their rarity means Nobel prizes are not very good markers for female progress, or anything else much.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

    Ironically those unlikely to be affected much are the relatively well-heeled either retired or with money but not working. It could be very tough for 'expats' working in EU states without skills - probably the vast majority in the likes of Spain from what I can see.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    In the “Leadership Audition Stakes” I’d say Javid has played a better card than Hunt with his uncharacteristicly inept metaphor yesterday (I know what he actually said, but he’s old enough to know about having your words “twisted by knaves to make traps for fools”)
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    @JosiasJessop FPT

    You asked for details of the trusted traveller scheme

    But you chose to ignore @Sandpit ‘s post explaining them

    Suggest you read that

    I don't think he made a post explaining it? I asked for a post explaining the thing he mentioned, and he posted about a different thing?
    He gave a list of the suppliers of the software

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Who says they are the snowflake generation...

    https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/1046729798519848960

    Unbelievable - surely a spoof.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408

    DavidL said:

    Off-topic: with splendidly ironic timing, a lady physicist has won the Nobel Prize.

    Arthur Ashkin, Gérard Mourou and Donna Strickland win Nobel physics prize

    American, Frenchman and Canadian awarded 9m Swedish kronor (£770,000) prize for work on advances in laser physics

    Ashkin wins half of the prize for his development of “optical tweezers” which have allowed tiny organisms to be handled with light beams. Mourou and Strickland share a quarter of the prize each “for their method of generating high-intensity, ultra-short optical pulses,” the Nobel committee said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/02/arthur-ashkin-gerard-mourou-and-donna-strickland-win-nobel-physics-prize

    She is apparently the first woman to win even a share of the Physics Nobel for 55 years. The Italian was basically unhappy, as I understand it, that women were being promoted because they were women and not on merit because there was a desire to achieve gender equality. Nobels are not everything but this does tend to suggest that those women given these promoted posts are not being immensely creative with the positions they are given.
    The Italian made accusations, which have been denied.

    I am generally sceptical about his position. I have heard the same about female engineers in the tech industry, and the anecdata from the ones in my little corner indicate exactly the opposite.

    I'd argue that because so many barriers are put in the way of women going into tech, that the ones who do make it through tend to be more focused and hungry than the men on average.

    Yes, I know more brilliant men than women. Then again, there are an order of magnitude more men. I'd argue that the median skill level of women I've encountered in the industry is higher than that of the men - sometimes because they've had more of a fight to get where they have.
    I don't have enough information (or interest for that matter) to have a concluded view but 1 share of a Nobel in 55 years is....interesting. It doesn't seem consistent to me with a few extra driven ultra competitive women breaking through. Engineers may be different of course.

    My own profession has recently gone majority female for the first time and will, for demographic reasons, become increasingly dominated by women going forward, probably heading to 80% female in 20 years time. it will be interesting to see what effect this has on the profession.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078
    Dura_Ace said:

    stodge said:


    It's all "Comedy Gold". The Tories are, well, being Tories, Labour don't know their arse from there elbow, and you've got Vince Cable as your main man, with a coronation for Swinson once Invisible Vince fades away completely.

    The problem is Vince has always been a transitional leader - everyone knows that. There won't be a coronation, of that I am now certain.

    Layla Moran will run and I think she will win - she was impressive at our Conference but then every partisan thinks all their speakers are excellent. Some would say there have already been five speeches at the Conservative Conference worthy of Cicero (the Roman not the former contributor on here).

    As I'm diametrically opposed to the main plank of LD policy, I'm currently fairly semi-detached in my support but then I look over at the Conservative and Labour parties and see a lot of virtue in political non-alignment but you can't vote Non-Aligned at an election and I always vote.

    The LD Party has to accept we will be leaving the EU and should be agitating for a deal as close to BINO as possible in that regard so staying in the CU as a minimum. Hoping somehow the whole thing can be stopped/reversed is simply a fool's errand.

    You should stand for LD leader Stodge.
    The next LD leader will be Aimee Challenor. 100% Guaranteed.
    LOL.

    However, I’m given to understand that Christine Jardine could be one to watch.
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    felix said:

    Who says they are the snowflake generation...

    https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/1046729798519848960

    Unbelievable - surely a spoof.
    Remember these are the same twats who got triggered by the poem If, they had to have it painted over.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    Scott_P said:
    Fortunately the Tory Party does not appoint leader by acclamation.....

    Boris is Box Office....who knew?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,032

    In the “Leadership Audition Stakes” I’d say Javid has played a better card than Hunt with his uncharacteristicly inept metaphor yesterday (I know what he actually said, but he’s old enough to know about having your words “twisted by knaves to make traps for fools”)
    Indeed. However, his plan to crackdown on middle class Coke users has Back to Basics written all over it.
    Were I an investigative journalist, or indeed a disillusioned Police commander fed up with budget cuts and a denied pay rise, I may be tempted to start my undercover investigations at Paty conferences...
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445

    Scott_P said:
    Fortunately the Tory Party does not appoint leader by acclamation.....

    Boris is Box Office....who knew?
    The problem is if the membership want Boris by a country mile, are MPs really going to deny him entry into the final two?

    I doubt it myself.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    edited October 2018
    Scott_P said:
    None of the “Metropolitan Liberal Elite” there then...no siree!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    @JosiasJessop FPT

    You asked for details of the trusted traveller scheme

    But you chose to ignore @Sandpit ‘s post explaining them

    Suggest you read that

    I don't think he made a post explaining it? I asked for a post explaining the thing he mentioned, and he posted about a different thing?
    He gave a list of the suppliers of the software

    The software is simple, it’s not very different from what any large logistics organisation would use. In fact the EU are themselves rolling out electronic customs declarations.
    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/general-information-customs/electronic-customs_en

    The only difference in Ireland is that the spot-checking is done away from the actual border - as currently happens.

    The whole point is that nothing changes except for a simple customs declaration system is added. The ANPR cameras, police and customs patrols are all there already.

    I’m at a loss to explain this in any other way. If the U.K. and RoI had continued the work started by Enda Kenny in 2016 we’d most likely have something up and running by now. The reason it’s become an issue is that Varadkar and Barnier want to make it a negotiating lever.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    edited October 2018

    Scott_P said:
    Fortunately the Tory Party does not appoint leader by acclamation.....

    Boris is Box Office....who knew?
    The problem is if the membership want Boris by a country mile, are MPs really going to deny him entry into the final two?

    I doubt it myself.
    Or they are coming to watch a farewell hurrah....

    Edit. And “yes, quite possibly”.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408
    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

    How many of them actually do this? Actual numbers for real periods of time and not a glorified holiday.
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    DavidL said:

    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.

    He was quite dull but did ake sme good points.

    Boris on Sky at 1.00 ish and expect BBC to cover it as well
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,407
    edited October 2018
    DavidL said:

    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.

    He was quite dull but did make some good points.

    Boris on Sky at 1.00 ish and expect BBC to cover it as well
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,092
    DavidL said:


    I don't have enough information (or interest for that matter) to have a concluded view but 1 share of a Nobel in 55 years is....interesting. It doesn't seem consistent to me with a few extra driven ultra competitive women breaking through. Engineers may be different of course.

    My own profession has recently gone majority female for the first time and will, for demographic reasons, become increasingly dominated by women going forward, probably heading to 80% female in 20 years time. it will be interesting to see what effect this has on the profession.

    It is indeed interesting. Now it could be that women are somehow inferior to the men - but there is little evidence that that is the case.

    IMO it is much more down to fewer women going into physics, and barriers being put in their way when they do.

    It should be noted that Marie Curie got Nobel awards twice, the physics jointly with her husband and one other person, and the chemistry award on her own. The reasons why she succeeded are multi-faceted, but a big part of it was that her chosen area of physics was very new and relatively unestablished.

    The way the Nobel prize is awarded is also rather odd. The peace prize is by a different organisation AFAIAA, but things like the literature prize are very much open to interpretation by the relevant committee. The 'hard' sciences can be awarded to a maximum of three people, and they tend to be the ones at the very top of the research, who have tended to be men.

    It should also be noted that there are some women who it can easily be argued 'deserved' a physics Nobel but did not get one: Jocelyn Bell Burnell being a classic example.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
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    Scott_P said:
    Boris is playing a blinder this conference. His wheat-field antics made Theresa look just a bit more risible than she otherwise would, and now the great and the good are powering their way to his door... Theresa's looking like the wallflower and Boris the host with the most.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Boris spent £46M on his last bridge project. We didn't even end up with a bowl of tulips.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    matt said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

    How many of them actually do this? Actual numbers for real periods of time and not a glorified holiday.
    Lots of them where I live in southern Spain - and of all ages with a fair number of older people supplementing low pensions thanks to the falling pound.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408

    DavidL said:

    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.

    He was quite dull but did make some good points.

    Boris on Sky at 1.00 ish and expect BBC to cover it as well
    Thanks. I think he has blown it but with Boris you never quite know.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.

    He was quite dull but did make some good points.

    Boris on Sky at 1.00 ish and expect BBC to cover it as well
    Thanks. I think he has blown it but with Boris you never quite know.
    The Brugge group have elevated JRM over Boris.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    felix said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
    Fair enough. I look forward to the Leavers antics when they finally start having to deal with reality...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    matt said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

    How many of them actually do this? Actual numbers for real periods of time and not a glorified holiday.
    matt said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

    How many of them actually do this? Actual numbers for real periods of time and not a glorified holiday.
    Since the immediate destination of many UK young working class Brits is Australia (and indeed ultimate destination), possibly not as many as SO imagines. Unless “young working class Brits” have suddenly gained fluency in European languages without anyone noticing...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.

    He was quite dull but did make some good points.

    Boris on Sky at 1.00 ish and expect BBC to cover it as well
    Thanks. I think he has blown it but with Boris you never quite know.
    The Brugge group have elevated JRM over Boris.
    I really don't think I could bring myself to support a party led by JRM. Boris would be a stretch but JRM? Not for me.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Who is covering Boris? BBC still with Javid who is a little dull tbh.

    He was quite dull but did make some good points.

    Boris on Sky at 1.00 ish and expect BBC to cover it as well
    Thanks. I think he has blown it but with Boris you never quite know.
    The Brugge group have elevated JRM over Boris.
    I really don't think I could bring myself to support a party led by JRM. Boris would be a stretch but JRM? Not for me.
    It's beginning to look like better the devil you know !
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    Off topic, haven't a lot of the speeches from 'big beasts' at the Con conference been pretty sparsely attended? Obviously you don't have to have heaving masses at every p̶a̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶g̶g̶r̶e̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶d̶e̶r̶s̶h̶i̶p̶ ̶b̶i̶d̶ measured statement on picking a way through the next few difficult years, but it doesn't look great. It'll be interesting & a little worrying to see what crowd Boris gets.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791

    Scott_P said:
    the great and the good are powering their way to his door
    Hedge fund billionaires among the “great and the good”?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,904
    Wow this Conference is dull

    SOS' Scotland Wales NI

    Not a personality between them

    No wonder the hall is 95% empty
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408

    Off topic, haven't a lot of the speeches from 'big beasts' at the Con conference been pretty sparsely attended? Obviously you don't have to have heaving masses at every p̶a̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶g̶g̶r̶e̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶d̶e̶r̶s̶h̶i̶p̶ ̶b̶i̶d̶ measured statement on picking a way through the next few difficult years, but it doesn't look great. It'll be interesting & a little worrying to see what crowd Boris gets.

    According to Sky the hall was pretty empty for Javid because everyone was apparently queuing for Jonhston.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    DavidL said:


    I don't have enough information (or interest for that matter) to have a concluded view but 1 share of a Nobel in 55 years is....interesting. It doesn't seem consistent to me with a few extra driven ultra competitive women breaking through. Engineers may be different of course.

    My own profession has recently gone majority female for the first time and will, for demographic reasons, become increasingly dominated by women going forward, probably heading to 80% female in 20 years time. it will be interesting to see what effect this has on the profession.

    It is indeed interesting. Now it could be that women are somehow inferior to the men - but there is little evidence that that is the case.

    IMO it is much more down to fewer women going into physics, and barriers being put in their way when they do.

    It should be noted that Marie Curie got Nobel awards twice, the physics jointly with her husband and one other person, and the chemistry award on her own. The reasons why she succeeded are multi-faceted, but a big part of it was that her chosen area of physics was very new and relatively unestablished.

    The way the Nobel prize is awarded is also rather odd. The peace prize is by a different organisation AFAIAA, but things like the literature prize are very much open to interpretation by the relevant committee. The 'hard' sciences can be awarded to a maximum of three people, and they tend to be the ones at the very top of the research, who have tended to be men.

    It should also be noted that there are some women who it can easily be argued 'deserved' a physics Nobel but did not get one: Jocelyn Bell Burnell being a classic example.
    Jocelyn Bell was shabbily treated. So was Margaret Burbidge (who is still alive at 99!!)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Burbidge

    Or Rosalind Franklin who discovered the key structures of DNA and explained them to Crick/Watson who ignored her, got it wrong. Although her work on DNA was key to understanding it, she got no recognition for it.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,728
    felix said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
    Remain lost because it had one outcome to offer, Leave could be whatever your heart desired, with added £350million per week, no immigration and easy as pie.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,904
    Karen Bradley is particularly useless
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    I think Mr Rentoul misses the point. In the absence of a vacancy all bids should be “underwhelming”
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.



    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer.
    Indeed. But don't be surprised when you keep on losing referendums.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
    Fair enough. I look forward to the Leavers antics when they finally start having to deal with reality...
    I don't disagree on that but sneering at Leave when the enormous failure was on our own side really dosn't cut it.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    edited October 2018
    Boris could give up this politics lark and retire to the after dinner speaking circuit at £1m a pop.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408
    Strong shades of Michael Gove there.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,040
    matt said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

    How many of them actually do this? Actual numbers for real periods of time and not a glorified holiday.
    Quite a few. We have a house in Brittany and I often have British people (friends of friends of friends, etc.) beating a path to my door to help with translation of documents. Ten years ago when we first got the house it was people like retired teachers now it's trending younger. Our local roofer is a displaced Scotsman who speaks mangled French with a Livingstone accent.

    I assume the ones who have made the move will be fine but the opportunity will be sadly denied to others unless they are reasonably well off.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
    Remain lost because it had one outcome to offer, Leave could be whatever your heart desired, with added £350million per week, no immigration and easy as pie.
    one outcome - ever closer union, without electoral consent
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408
    Certainly wide ranging, not just about Brexit. On to housing now.
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    Why does he let himself down with his childish pranks and stupid actions when inside there is a politician that has charisma and is able to plug into ordinary peoples fears.

    So far this is a good speech
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    felix said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
    Fair enough. I look forward to the Leavers antics when they finally start having to deal with reality...
    I don't disagree on that but sneering at Leave when the enormous failure was on our own side really dosn't cut it.
    I do not think that the failure was on the "Remain side" - I think it is deeper than that.

    I think that Brussels was a convenient whipping boy for Westminster. They could blame Brussels for just about everything even if it was Westminster's fault.

    Who signed away various fishing rights? It was not Brussels. Who gets the blame? Brussels, of course. The same applies to just about any other unpopular measure. We could have stemmed the immigrant tide. We could have had Blue Passports. We could sent EU people back after 3 months if they have no way to support themselves. We could have done all of these things, but Westminster chose not to.

    So, after decades of blaming everything on Brussels - with the full support of a Eurosceptic press - I am amazed that Remain did as well as it did.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Oof. Take that Spreadsheet Phil
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.



    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer.
    Indeed. But don't be surprised when you keep on losing referendums.
    Truly, the Bourbons...
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,106
    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Why does he let himself down with his childish pranks and stupid actions when inside there is a politician that has charisma and is able to plug into ordinary peoples fears.

    So far this is a good speech

    Please do not tell me you think Boris is talented because he gave a good speech.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Dammit.... As much as Boris is a twat, he can still give a great speech and 'gets it'
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    Good speech. Coming from Boris is the only weakness. That said, it is an ineradicable weakness.
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    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    It really is. Needs to drop the pranks and become really serious.

    Having heard Hunt and Javid he must be have a chance and I do not see how he can be kept out of the last two.

    Please Boris just become serious, put away childish ways, and you may just get there
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    Boris spent £46M on his last bridge project. We didn't even end up with a bowl of tulips.

    Even turned up before a Parliamentary committee to answer questions as to where £40 million had disappeared to. The Committee were so unimpressed with his answers that they have asked the Met to investigate. This is going to run... .
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    DavidL said:

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
    Make him PM !!!!!
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    DavidL said:

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
    Chat show host.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408

    DavidL said:

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
    Make him PM !!!!!
    Err......
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Why does he let himself down with his childish pranks and stupid actions when inside there is a politician that has charisma and is able to plug into ordinary peoples fears.

    So far this is a good speech

    But his "wheat field prank" was journalistic invention....

    And greetings from a rather grey Isles of Scilly.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    DavidL said:

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
    2-term leader of the opposition?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Lucky for me I am not a protestant unionist then.

    Besides us Remainers are allowed to sneer. The Leavers got exactly what they wanted and they have made a right mess of the whole thing. Boris, DD, Liam Fox, Rees-Mogg et al - all their simplistic platitudes that everything would be peachy in the sunlit uplands have turned out to be no more than fantasy.

    Actually, sneering is too good for them. They deserve far stiffer criticism.
    Lol - it remains a complete mystery why Remain lost a referendum with the odds hugely stacked up for them. I just can't for the life of me workout why the British public told them to F*** off.
    Remain lost because it had one outcome to offer, Leave could be whatever your heart desired, with added £350million per week, no immigration and easy as pie.
    You’d think all the clever rich people on Remain would’ve worked that out, wouldn’t you?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    Boris is demonstrating the secret of his success with women. Why half of the PB contributors sound like they would sleep with him this evening, if asked.
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    DavidL said:

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
    Chat show host.
    HIGNFY is shit these days....
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    'The day the polls for Boris turned'

    Gulp.
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    TOPPING said:

    Boris is demonstrating the secret of his success with women. Why half of the PB contributors sound like they would sleep with him this evening, if asked.

    Yes but one would hope that women would have more sense.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited October 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Boris is demonstrating the secret of his success with women. Why half of the PB contributors sound like they would sleep with him this evening, if asked.

    That is a lot of blokes :D:D:D

    I cannot imagine any of the PB women falling for Boris
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This is actually a good speech from Boris. Annoyingly.

    He is infuriating. Witty, brilliant, lazy, careless, bordering on reckless at times. I really don't know what we do with him.
    Make him PM !!!!!
    Err......
    He opened his speech with concluding he will not be PM and of course he has a long way to go

    His speech though should influence the party's decisions going forward
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408
    TOPPING said:

    Boris is demonstrating the secret of his success with women. Why half of the PB contributors sound like they would sleep with him this evening, if asked.

    Not my type. And is he not going just a tad bald?
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    Big attack on Gove
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Why does he let himself down with his childish pranks and stupid actions when inside there is a politician that has charisma and is able to plug into ordinary peoples fears.

    So far this is a good speech

    But his "wheat field prank" was journalistic invention....

    And greetings from a rather grey Isles of Scilly.
    Welcome to the far west. The visibility has been fantastic the last couple of days with clear views of the islands from St Just - hope it clears up for you.
This discussion has been closed.