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SystemSystem Posts: 12,173
edited October 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New YouGov polling finds that by 43% to 22% voters believe that Corbyn backs Remain

Interesting polling from YouGov this morning on how prominent political figures are perceived to view Brexit.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Ha.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    48% to 27% May would Remain. That's interesting.

    If she betrays Brexit people won't believe she's done so as a Leaver.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    LOL great cut through by Vince Cable on what is, after all, the LD's raison d'etre!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Um in your header its surely backwards on May? They think she's against Brexit 48 to 27.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited October 2018
    Apart from the delusion over Corbyn, the most striking figure there is that 45% don't know what Vince Cable would want. That is an astonishing communications failure by the LibDems given that they are trying to position themselves as the party of Remain. It suggests that they have considerable scope to improve their support at the expense of Labour, if they can only get their act together.

    Edit: I see @TOPPING got there first.
  • ajbajb Posts: 147
    Re 'Farage is a remainer' - that's the problem with assuming that with a big enough sample, you can get whatever accuracy you want - it ignores the fact that at least 5% of the population are jokers.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    To paraphrase Arlene - we cannot have Brexit.

    And these are Mrs May's "allies"?

    Comedy gold :D
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    More Tory voters than Labour think Jezza is a Remainer? So much for the 'Corbyn a secret Leaver' meme so loved by the PB Tories.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,435
    What's the point of the Lib Dems? They've got one policy that anyone remembers, and Invisible Vince can't even get that across.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Theuniondivvie said:

    More Tory voters than Labour think Jezza is a Remainer? So much for the 'Corbyn a secret Leaver' meme so loved by the PB Tories.

    There's nothing secret about the fact that Corbyn is a Leaver.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2018
    Beverley_C said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    TGOHF said:

    Beverley_C said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    Wrong.

    Mark Reckless is on the lowest rung.

    He’s lower than a snake’s bollocks.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Who knew the vicars daughter would be a disaster at poker... ;)
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,435
    Beverley_C said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    To paraphrase Arlene - we cannot have Brexit.

    And these are Mrs May's "allies"?

    Comedy gold :D
    It's all "Comedy Gold". The Tories are, well, being Tories, Labour don't know their arse from there elbow, and you've got Vince Cable as your main man, with a coronation for Swinson once Invisible Vince fades away completely.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    More Tory voters than Labour think Jezza is a Remainer? So much for the 'Corbyn a secret Leaver' meme so loved by the PB Tories.

    There's nothing secret about the fact that Corbyn is a Leaver.
    It seems to be secret to the point of being under a DSMA Notice to most of your fellow voters.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    I can understand 4% of voters thinking Farage backs Remain.

    Brexit means he loses his job, which is one of the few upsides of Brexit.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    TGOHF said:

    Beverley_C said:



    Comedy gold :D

    The hierarchy of sneer from Remainers is most enlightening. The only thing lower on their ladder of virtue than Boris is a female protestant unionist.

    .....a female protestant unionist living in Hartlepool.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited October 2018
    Said this a number of times, Jezza has by luck become the candidate that people pin their beliefs on, regardless of reality / what he says. Previous polling has shown basically a 50/50 split think he is for remain / leave.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    FPT, the 48/42 split against Kavanaugh pretty much mirrors the split in generic polling. Democrats overwhelmingly oppose him, Republicans overwhelmingly support him.

    I expect this makes it a bit more likely that Democrats win the House, and a bit harder for Red State Democrats to retain their seats in the Senate.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    edited October 2018
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Um in your header its surely backwards on May? They think she's against Brexit 48 to 27.

    Yes @MikeSmithson you have the figures for May the wrong way around. People believe she would like to remain.

    If anyone wants to know how different the public view politics then this is pretty high. I think most people on this board would peg May as a pragmatic remainer, and also Cameron and Blair as more ardent remainer.

    Vince Cable is interesting, and I’m not sure it is necessarily a Libdem issue, insofar as I’m not sure how many people know who he is and which party he is in. Those who know probably figure for most of the positive negative answers.

    Corbyn is also interesting because again on here most would probably peg Corbyn as a principled leaver from his voting record, so his fence sitting has probably led to the responses. Only problem is he can’t fence sit indefinitely, and there is probably an upside for SNP and Libdems, if he votes through a deal, and the Tories if he doesn’t.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I can understand 4% of voters thinking Farage backs Remain.

    Brexit means he loses his job, which is one of the few upsides of Brexit.

    Can't be long before Nigel sits on the Lords can it?

    Lord Farage!!!!!!! Their Lordship's would have an attack of the vapours. :D
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,301
    Am I misreading or do the public think TM would rather remain? And therefore there is a mistake in the header?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    ajb said:

    Re 'Farage is a remainer' - that's the problem with assuming that with a big enough sample, you can get whatever accuracy you want - it ignores the fact that at least 5% of the population are jokers.

    There is a minority school of thought that thinks people like Farage are just anti-establishment contrarians, who would be arguing for us to join the EU if we weren’t already members.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    Don't worry, there'll be a technical solution to that.

    It'll be made a crimson line instead.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    I've been quite impressed by the DUP politicians on the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. They seem to take a very logical view.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Northern Ireland already has a different regulatory regime. Try getting an abortion there, or having a gay wedding. Arlene can’t have it both ways. Actually, she can, of course.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    I've been quite impressed by the DUP politicians on the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. They seem to take a very logical view.
    They'd have made a better job of negotiating than hopeless (hapless) Theresa...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    GIN1138 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    I've been quite impressed by the DUP politicians on the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. They seem to take a very logical view.
    They'd have made a better job of negotiating than hopeless (hapless) Theresa...
    Yes, probably.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    If the DUP cause a Hard Brexit then there should be a referendum in Great Britain on expelling Northern Ireland from The Union.

    We should take back control from these bigots.

    Why should we suffer because of 10 DUP MPs.

    Did we lose a war?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited October 2018
    Off-topic: with splendidly ironic timing, a lady physicist has won the Nobel Prize.

    Arthur Ashkin, Gérard Mourou and Donna Strickland win Nobel physics prize

    American, Frenchman and Canadian awarded 9m Swedish kronor (£770,000) prize for work on advances in laser physics

    Ashkin wins half of the prize for his development of “optical tweezers” which have allowed tiny organisms to be handled with light beams. Mourou and Strickland share a quarter of the prize each “for their method of generating high-intensity, ultra-short optical pulses,” the Nobel committee said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/02/arthur-ashkin-gerard-mourou-and-donna-strickland-win-nobel-physics-prize
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    GIN1138 said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Who knew the vicars daughter would be a disaster at poker... ;)
    I voted remain, and I understand all those calling for staying as close as possible. But the only way to negotiate was to come from No deal inwards to closer alignment. The government has its negotiating strategy all wrong. They could have been explicit with that strategy and put the pressure on the EU, and preparations could have been made for No deal as that was our initial stance.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Why should there be a different regulatory regime in GB and NI for womens' bodies? Surely unacceptable?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    TheScreamingEagles said:



    Why should we suffer because of 10 DUP MPs.

    Did we lose a war?

    No, Theresa ****ed up the election.... :D
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Nemtynakht said:

    GIN1138 said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Who knew the vicars daughter would be a disaster at poker... ;)
    I voted remain, and I understand all those calling for staying as close as possible. But the only way to negotiate was to come from No deal inwards to closer alignment. The government has its negotiating strategy all wrong. They could have been explicit with that strategy and put the pressure on the EU, and preparations could have been made for No deal as that was our initial stance.
    Yep, you should start with your bottom line (no deal) and go from there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited October 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    I've been quite impressed by the DUP politicians on the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. They seem to take a very logical view.
    They'd have made a better job of negotiating than hopeless (hapless) Theresa...
    Hmm actually I think May has done a better job than many give her credit for, and she'd have been better than say Boris. That said I think Foster would have been firmer and perhaps may have been the best negotiator for the whole of the UK. The DUP negotiated well for confidence and supply to the Tories.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    11.12: Newsflash from America: E-commerce giant Amazon is DOUBLING its minimum wage, for US workers.

    It will now pay at least $15 per hour, up from $7.25 previously.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/02/oil-four-year-high-iran-sanctions-trump-italy-budget-eurozone-business-live
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I can understand 4% of voters thinking Farage backs Remain.

    Brexit means he loses his job, which is one of the few upsides of Brexit.

    And if we refuse to pay £39m presumably he loses his pension too!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    twistedfirestopper3 said:


    It's all "Comedy Gold". The Tories are, well, being Tories, Labour don't know their arse from there elbow, and you've got Vince Cable as your main man, with a coronation for Swinson once Invisible Vince fades away completely.

    The problem is Vince has always been a transitional leader - everyone knows that. There won't be a coronation, of that I am now certain.

    Layla Moran will run and I think she will win - she was impressive at our Conference but then every partisan thinks all their speakers are excellent. Some would say there have already been five speeches at the Conservative Conference worthy of Cicero (the Roman not the former contributor on here).

    As I'm diametrically opposed to the main plank of LD policy, I'm currently fairly semi-detached in my support but then I look over at the Conservative and Labour parties and see a lot of virtue in political non-alignment but you can't vote Non-Aligned at an election and I always vote.

    The LD Party has to accept we will be leaving the EU and should be agitating for a deal as close to BINO as possible in that regard so staying in the CU as a minimum. Hoping somehow the whole thing can be stopped/reversed is simply a fool's errand.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    If the DUP cause a Hard Brexit then there should be a referendum in Great Britain on expelling Northern Ireland from The Union.

    We should take back control from these bigots.

    Why should we suffer because of 10 DUP MPs.

    Did we lose a war?

    I think that would make a hard Brexit more likely. Concern about the position of Northern Ireland is the only thing that stands in the way of a Canada-type deal with the EU.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited October 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    I've been quite impressed by the DUP politicians on the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. They seem to take a very logical view.
    They'd have made a better job of negotiating than hopeless (hapless) Theresa...
    Hmm actually I think May has done a better job than many give her credit for, and she'd have been better than say Boris. That said I think Foster would have been firmer and perhaps may have been the best negotiator for the whole of the UK. The DUP negotiated well for confidence and supply to the Tories.
    The problem with Theresa May's approach is that she works out what a final sensible settlement should be, puts it forward, and expects everyone to agree that she's right, just repeating it when challenged. As it happens, she is right, but that's no way to negotiate.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheScreamingEagles said:


    We should take back control from these bigots.

    Why should we suffer because of 10 DUP MPs.

    You appear to be the bigot - downgrading 10 elected MPs because of their geography.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    edited October 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Arlene Foster is quite right to make the Irish sea border a red line.

    I've been quite impressed by the DUP politicians on the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. They seem to take a very logical view.
    They'd have made a better job of negotiating than hopeless (hapless) Theresa...
    No. No. No. Isn’t that Arlene’s position?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1047067952837738497
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Topping, assuming that's a genuine question, it is very silly.

    You're arguing against all devolution. The point of devolution is difference in domestic law.

    Customs and single market type affairs are foreign matters because they involve international trade and transport of goods, services, and people.

    This is not a complicated point.

    [I do think abortion should be legal in Northern Ireland but imposing it from Westminster makes a mockery of devolution].
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1047067952837738497

    JRM's had it with Mrs May. :D
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,447
    Nemtynakht said:

    GIN1138 said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Who knew the vicars daughter would be a disaster at poker... ;)
    I voted remain, and I understand all those calling for staying as close as possible. But the only way to negotiate was to come from No deal inwards to closer alignment. The government has its negotiating strategy all wrong. They could have been explicit with that strategy and put the pressure on the EU, and preparations could have been made for No deal as that was our initial stance.
    I agree that May's idea of starting in the middle with a proposal that is predictably unacceptable to the EU has been a disaster. However, another approach might have been to start from the other side: BINO, and then negotiate concessions in return for our lack of representation, followed by a gradual drift away from the EU as more opt-outs and exceptions are agreed. While politically difficult, it would at least have achieved the aim of leaving the EU without unnecessarily damaging British industry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    If the DUP cause a Hard Brexit then there should be a referendum in Great Britain on expelling Northern Ireland from The Union.

    We should take back control from these bigots.

    Why should we suffer because of 10 DUP MPs.

    Did we lose a war?

    No, just an election.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited October 2018
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    What's Verhofstadt wittering on about, we're not in the EU post Brexit, that's the whole point. With May hemmed in on all sides (Including rightfully by the DUP), no deal seems to be creeping inch by inch closer this morning.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Nabavi, more to the point, the EU actively endorses discrimination based on nationality (free movement for citizens of member states, after all).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    There are already different regulatory regimes in the UK.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Nemtynakht said:

    GIN1138 said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Who knew the vicars daughter would be a disaster at poker... ;)
    I voted remain, and I understand all those calling for staying as close as possible. But the only way to negotiate was to come from No deal inwards to closer alignment. The government has its negotiating strategy all wrong. They could have been explicit with that strategy and put the pressure on the EU, and preparations could have been made for No deal as that was our initial stance.
    I agree that May's idea of starting in the middle with a proposal that is predictably unacceptable to the EU has been a disaster. However, another approach might have been to start from the other side: BINO, and then negotiate concessions in return for our lack of representation, followed by a gradual drift away from the EU as more opt-outs and exceptions are agreed. While politically difficult, it would at least have achieved the aim of leaving the EU without unnecessarily damaging British industry.

    May’s pre-negotiation red lines were the biggest mistake she made. And all for a good headline in the Daily Mail.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited October 2018
    SouthamObserver said:

    There are already different regulatory regimes in the UK.

    And there's a border in Ireland too, different currencies, taxes, duties..
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    He speaks for the Parliament, not the EU27.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    SouthamObserver said:

    There are already different regulatory regimes in the UK.

    And already different regulatory regimes between Northern Ireland and the Republic. In neither case is a hard border needed.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited October 2018
    SouthamObserver said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    He speaks for the Parliament, not the EU27.

    True, but that doesn't make his tweet any less bonkers. And of course the EU Parliament will have to ratify any deal, so he can't be completely ignored.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1047071578742304768
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    If the DUP cause a Hard Brexit then there should be a referendum in Great Britain on expelling Northern Ireland from The Union.

    We should take back control from these bigots.

    Why should we suffer because of 10 DUP MPs.

    Did we lose a war?

    No you lost the peace when Blair caved in to the DUP and SF



  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/1047068246774566913
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    I seldom agree with you, Richard, but on this one you have a point. Once we are outside the EU, we will be able to dictate our own immigration policy and it won't be the EU's business though they are quite within their rights to have a view.

    The notion of a skills-based immigration policy is the only viable option and hopefully we can move to a system where we treat all applicants the same irrespective of their country of origin.

    I'm not averse to students and others coming here, learning here and taking those skills back to their countries - it may disadvantage us marginally but it's for the greater good and we should not oppose the promulgation of good practice and viable and valuable skills.

    Nor should we be annoyed if someone comes along and does it better than us and teaches us for learning is ever a dialogue.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    FPT
    Sandpit said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yes, it’s something similar to the USA/Canada Trusted Trader scheme, which operates along long unmanned sections of their shared border.

    Regular border crossers fill in a form online with details of truck and cargo, paying taxes and tarrifs as appropriate. Occasional crossers can either register for the scheme or use the existing self-assessment procedures for VAT to square duties. Police and customs in the border region stop vehicles based on intelligence (as they do now) but there are no checks at the border. No physical border infrastructure is required except for the existing ANPR cameras that read numberplates of vehicles crossing the border, again as they do now.

    Do you have a link explaining this? I googled it up and the what I'm seeing doesn't seem to match your description at all - it seems like there are lots of areas without physical barriers, but if you try to cross there you'll get arrested - see https://www.quora.com/Are-there-really-parts-of-the-US–Canada-border-that-are-unprotected
    Canada have a scheme of registered travellers who are allowed to cross borders in rural areas. https://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/canpass/rabc-pfre/menu-eng.html

    The main difference between this border and Ireland is that policing of the border in Ireland is only necessary for goods, not for people who are covered by the Common Travel Area agreement which isn’t changing.
    If you look that up it's just a couple of weird, exceptional areas - the middle of a national park, islands where hardly anyone lives the border is really unhelpful etc. And it doesn't seem to be anything to do with the Trusted Trader thing you mentioned, which seems to be a way of making the checks go faster at border controls, not a way of getting across the border without going through one.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Why should there be a different regulatory regime in GB and NI for womens' bodies? Surely unacceptable?
    then stop paying their MLAs salaries, theyre paid to review legislation
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    stodge said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    I seldom agree with you, Richard, but on this one you have a point. Once we are outside the EU, we will be able to dictate our own immigration policy and it won't be the EU's business though they are quite within their rights to have a view.

    The notion of a skills-based immigration policy is the only viable option and hopefully we can move to a system where we treat all applicants the same irrespective of their country of origin.

    I'm not averse to students and others coming here, learning here and taking those skills back to their countries - it may disadvantage us marginally but it's for the greater good and we should not oppose the promulgation of good practice and viable and valuable skills.

    Nor should we be annoyed if someone comes along and does it better than us and teaches us for learning is ever a dialogue.
    I assume basically every EU member state has a skills-based immigration framework for third country nationals, so I am not sure Guy speaks for Berlin or Bucharest
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1047073740880785408
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1047073740880785408

    Who does George hate more?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited October 2018
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    11.12: Newsflash from America: E-commerce giant Amazon is DOUBLING its minimum wage, for US workers.

    It will now pay at least $15 per hour, up from $7.25 previously.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/02/oil-four-year-high-iran-sanctions-trump-italy-budget-eurozone-business-live

    Newsflash: Amazon is also hiking its minimum wage in the UK too.

    It just announced it will now pay at least £10.50 per hour in London, and £9.50 across the rest of the UK.

    As in America, the rise will apply to all full-time, part-time, temporary (including those hired by agencies), and seasonal employees from the start of November.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    11.12: Newsflash from America: E-commerce giant Amazon is DOUBLING its minimum wage, for US workers.

    It will now pay at least $15 per hour, up from $7.25 previously.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/02/oil-four-year-high-iran-sanctions-trump-italy-budget-eurozone-business-live

    Newsflash: Amazon is also hiking its minimum wage in the UK too.

    It just announced it will now pay at least £10.50 per hour in London, and £9.50 across the rest of the UK.

    As in America, the rise will apply to all full-time, part-time, temporary (including those hired by agencies), and seasonal employees from the start of November.
    That seems out of character for Amazon.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/1047068246774566913

    There is currently a border between NI and Ireland for currency, income tax, corporation tax, social taxes like National Insurance and VAT.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited October 2018
    Sean_F said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    11.12: Newsflash from America: E-commerce giant Amazon is DOUBLING its minimum wage, for US workers.

    It will now pay at least $15 per hour, up from $7.25 previously.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/oct/02/oil-four-year-high-iran-sanctions-trump-italy-budget-eurozone-business-live

    Newsflash: Amazon is also hiking its minimum wage in the UK too.

    It just announced it will now pay at least £10.50 per hour in London, and £9.50 across the rest of the UK.

    As in America, the rise will apply to all full-time, part-time, temporary (including those hired by agencies), and seasonal employees from the start of November.
    That seems out of character for Amazon.
    When I first saw it, I thought I bet they don't include temps or subsidiaries etc. But it seems its everybody, including WholeFoods.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    He speaks for the Parliament, not the EU27.

    True, but that doesn't make his tweet any less bonkers. And of course the EU Parliament will have to ratify any deal, so he can't be completely ignored.
    There will be no deal. So no need for a vote in the EU parliament nor the UK parliament.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    What's Verhofstadt wittering on about, we're not in the EU post Brexit, that's the whole point. With May hemmed in on all sides (Including rightfully by the DUP), no deal seems to be creeping inch by inch closer this morning.
    I think his point (not very well expressed in a few characters) is that a deal with the U.K. which allows free trade privileges would not be allowed to discriminate between U.K. nationals and other EU nationals - basically just reiterating inseparability of 4 freedoms point. Nothing new or controversial.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    what time is BoJo's speech?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @JosiasJessop FPT

    You asked for details of the trusted traveller scheme

    But you chose to ignore @Sandpit ‘s post explaining them

    Suggest you read that

  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    stodge said:

    twistedfirestopper3 said:


    It's all "Comedy Gold". The Tories are, well, being Tories, Labour don't know their arse from there elbow, and you've got Vince Cable as your main man, with a coronation for Swinson once Invisible Vince fades away completely.

    The problem is Vince has always been a transitional leader - everyone knows that. There won't be a coronation, of that I am now certain.

    Layla Moran will run and I think she will win - she was impressive at our Conference but then every partisan thinks all their speakers are excellent. Some would say there have already been five speeches at the Conservative Conference worthy of Cicero (the Roman not the former contributor on here).

    As I'm diametrically opposed to the main plank of LD policy, I'm currently fairly semi-detached in my support but then I look over at the Conservative and Labour parties and see a lot of virtue in political non-alignment but you can't vote Non-Aligned at an election and I always vote.

    The LD Party has to accept we will be leaving the EU and should be agitating for a deal as close to BINO as possible in that regard so staying in the CU as a minimum. Hoping somehow the whole thing can be stopped/reversed is simply a fool's errand.

    You should stand for LD leader Stodge.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1047040479936860160

    Hang on a sec, I thought it was the EU that wanted to treat us as a third-party country with no special relationship.

    I thought the whole point of the new policy was that it wouldn't discriminate on the basis of nationality, but only skills (and possibly the presence or absence of a trade deal with the country, or trade block, of origin in question) ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Alanbrooke said:

    TOPPING said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Why should there be a different regulatory regime in GB and NI for womens' bodies? Surely unacceptable?
    then stop paying their MLAs salaries, theyre paid to review legislation
    That might focus Arlene’s mind....along with NI - UK regulatory alignment on gay marriage and abortion....since “regulatory alignment” is such an important principle.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    I see civil partnerships are to be extended to straight couples. Phew that's a relief.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    David_Evershed said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/1047068246774566913

    There is currently a border between NI and Ireland for currency, income tax, corporation tax, social taxes like National Insurance and VAT.
    But isn’t the point that the existence of different direct tax regimes doesn’t necessitate any form of border controls, and the EU framework for VAT and lack of currency controls removes the need for controls that would otherwise be required?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited October 2018
    Charles said:

    @JosiasJessop FPT

    You asked for details of the trusted traveller scheme

    But you chose to ignore @Sandpit ‘s post explaining them

    Suggest you read that

    I don't think he made a post explaining it? I asked for a post explaining the thing he mentioned, and he posted about a different thing?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    TOPPING said:

    archer101au said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1047061339980648457

    Arlene seems to be torpedoing Theresa May...
    Only slightly predictable....You just can’t fudge something like a customs union or regulatory barrier.

    Arlene is quite right - this plan would place NI in a desperate position, unable potentially to freely trade with GB. Looks like May is taking orders from Robbins again. That always ends well.

    What happened to ‘it is up to the EU to come back with proposals’? That was a decent approach. Planning the next set of concessions when yet again the EU have not moved at all is crazy.
    Why should there be a different regulatory regime in GB and NI for womens' bodies? Surely unacceptable?

    Because of devolution.

    Liberals believe in devolution and localism.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Dean, it was always a bit odd they weren't available to straight couples. I'd probably axe them for everyone, but if civil partnerships are to exist they shouldn't be limited to gay couples.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    TOPPING said:

    what time is BoJo's speech?

    One. I've already made arrangements to be out.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1047073740880785408

    Who does George hate more?
    Theresa May.

    If Boris had won the leadership he'd have kept George in the Cabinet... He wouldn't have sacked him and sent him out the back door. :D
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Off-topic: with splendidly ironic timing, a lady physicist has won the Nobel Prize.

    Arthur Ashkin, Gérard Mourou and Donna Strickland win Nobel physics prize

    American, Frenchman and Canadian awarded 9m Swedish kronor (£770,000) prize for work on advances in laser physics

    Ashkin wins half of the prize for his development of “optical tweezers” which have allowed tiny organisms to be handled with light beams. Mourou and Strickland share a quarter of the prize each “for their method of generating high-intensity, ultra-short optical pulses,” the Nobel committee said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/02/arthur-ashkin-gerard-mourou-and-donna-strickland-win-nobel-physics-prize

    She is apparently the first woman to win even a share of the Physics Nobel for 55 years. The Italian was basically unhappy, as I understand it, that women were being promoted because they were women and not on merit because there was a desire to achieve gender equality. Nobels are not everything but this does tend to suggest that those women given these promoted posts are not being immensely creative with the positions they are given.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Dean, it was always a bit odd they weren't available to straight couples. I'd probably axe them for everyone, but if civil partnerships are to exist they shouldn't be limited to gay couples.

    Indeed. Hardly an eye-catching initiative though.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    OldKingCole said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Hmmmmmm, I rather doubt that.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Polruan said:

    David_Evershed said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/1047068246774566913

    There is currently a border between NI and Ireland for currency, income tax, corporation tax, social taxes like National Insurance and VAT.
    But isn’t the point that the existence of different direct tax regimes doesn’t necessitate any form of border controls, and the EU framework for VAT and lack of currency controls removes the need for controls that would otherwise be required?
    Ironically the person who'd tell you most strongly that divergent tax regimes do create an internal border is the EU
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Apart from the delusion over Corbyn, the most striking figure there is that 45% don't know what Vince Cable would want. That is an astonishing communications failure by the LibDems given that they are trying to position themselves as the party of Remain. It suggests that they have considerable scope to improve their support at the expense of Labour, if they can only get their act together.

    Edit: I see @TOPPING got there first.


    Lib Dems have failed to differentiate themselves from Labour - they are always attacking the Conservatives not Labour.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Horse enters bar and makes for the betting counter:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/customers-flee-in-panic-as-racehorse-runs-amok-in-bar-in-france-a3949811.html
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    OldKingCole said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    Apparently ending UK citizens’ freedom of movement in the EU only affects metropolitan elitists with second homes in Tuscany, so all the young, working class Brits who take advantage of it will be fine. It’s Project Fear to say otherwise.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Charles said:

    @JosiasJessop FPT

    You asked for details of the trusted traveller scheme

    But you chose to ignore @Sandpit ‘s post explaining them

    Suggest you read that

    I have read it. And I didn't choose to ignore it; I'm afraid it falls into exactly the situation I'm talking about.

    Still, it's good that your certainty about the 'technical solution' is based on rather wispy stuff.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    OldKingCole said:

    Does ‘discouragement’ of low-skilled workers mean that young Brits, instead of seeking bar work in the Balearics or the Canaries will pick vegetables around Boston instead?

    There will be a SAWS scheme of some sort. Relax, your future supply of cheap strawberries is assured.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    David_Evershed said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Apart from the delusion over Corbyn, the most striking figure there is that 45% don't know what Vince Cable would want. That is an astonishing communications failure by the LibDems given that they are trying to position themselves as the party of Remain. It suggests that they have considerable scope to improve their support at the expense of Labour, if they can only get their act together.

    Edit: I see @TOPPING got there first.


    Lib Dems have failed to differentiate themselves from Labour - they are always attacking the Conservatives not Labour.

    That’s not what Labour people say!
    Although there are more LD/Con ‘marginals’ than LD/Lab ones. So Labour votes are often the ones to squeeze.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Polruan said:

    David_Evershed said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/1047068246774566913

    There is currently a border between NI and Ireland for currency, income tax, corporation tax, social taxes like National Insurance and VAT.
    But isn’t the point that the existence of different direct tax regimes doesn’t necessitate any form of border controls, and the EU framework for VAT and lack of currency controls removes the need for controls that would otherwise be required?
    Ironically the person who'd tell you most strongly that divergent tax regimes do create an internal border is the EU.

    Not the EU, the Commission! That’s very different.

  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Polruan said:

    David_Evershed said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/1047068246774566913

    There is currently a border between NI and Ireland for currency, income tax, corporation tax, social taxes like National Insurance and VAT.
    But isn’t the point that the existence of different direct tax regimes doesn’t necessitate any form of border controls, and the EU framework for VAT and lack of currency controls removes the need for controls that would otherwise be required?
    Ironically the person who'd tell you most strongly that divergent tax regimes do create an internal border is the EU
    I can see there’s a body of opinion in the EU that closer harmonisation of direct taxes is beneficial, but hadn’t noticed much argument that they created internal borders or undermined the four freedoms - unless specific rules are discriminatory. But territoriality principles etc. are fine. What were you thinking of in particular?
This discussion has been closed.