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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: Chequers is dead, so should

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    ....head in hands.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited September 2018
  • Chexit means Chexit.

    "It has become clear that Chequers is no longer acceptable. That is why I am requisitioning Windsor Castle which will become the new official retreat of the British Prime Minister. God save the Brexit."
  • Chequers to be replaced by Harlequin?
  • Rumours of a full-on PM statement this afternoon.

    If so what do we think?

    No Deal
    Resigning
    GE
    2nd Ref
    My favourite would be "nothing very much other than a lot of huffing and puffing about how rude the EU have been and a restatement of the Mayite position."
    Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed.
    Candidly, nothing much has.

    I'm trying to work out what the EU is trying to achieve by being so blunt. Perhaps they think they will do better with whoever might replace her.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    HYUFD said:
    From one bell-end to another....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited September 2018

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    As I said on here last night, a pathetically predictable response from elements of the Conservative heartland.

    The usual media suspects have gone overboard on their anti-European ranting pulling out all the old stereotypes and re-enforcing them because they dared not to strew rose petals on the path of the beloved Britannia.

    Do I feel "insulted" or "humiliated" ? Not in the least. May's a grown up - she's been in politics long enough to know how the game is played and the dance is danced. Yesterday was a reality check - we've heard nothing but the mantra of "hard work" from the Prime Minister since July 2016 but has that work been done? It seems not.

    We've gone there puffed up by our own expectations that the EU will roll over and do a deal - no, they won't. It's vital for them to make it as difficult as possible for us - "you can have the Euro any time you like but you can never leave".

    None of this means a deal can't or won't be done but the deal will be a tough sell for May as it will mean more concessions even than Chequers and while it seems the red line for her isn't immigration but "our precious union" that might not be where other people's red lines are.

    It now seems for some "no deal IS better than a bad deal" once again.

    Of course if Blair had imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 as he could have done the immigration problem would have been much less of an issue.

    As it is I think May will agree a stay in the single market and customs union through the transition period deal for the UK with a customs union backstop for NI but if that has not produced a FTA by the end of 2020 I think Boris will challenge on a Canada style FTA for GB platform
    Even if Blair had imposed a transition period that would have done nothing other than delay the inevitable. Free movement would still be there. The issues would still be there.

    We imposed the maximum possible transition controls on Romania, did that stop a surge in Romanian migrants? No of course it didn't. We now have more Romanians in this country than either Irish or Indians.

    Transition controls are not the answer.
    The lack of transition controls meant the largest number of the Eastern European migrants from Poland, Hungary etc flooded here rather than the rest of the EU for 7 years, after 7 years they were spread more evenly
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Also, I have decided that I somewhat fancy the savage Insta-DILF himself, Donald Tusk.

    Is that weird?

    User name checks out.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Sign in the European Commission offices

    NUMBER OF DAYS SINCE A TORY PRIME MINISTER WAS KILLED IN AN EU-RELATED ACCIDENT

    0
  • Grurdian...

    Russian diplomats held secret talks in London last year with people close to Julian Assange to assess whether they could help him flee the UK, the Guardian has learned.

    A tentative plan was devised that would have seen the WikiLeaks founder smuggled out of Ecuador’s London embassy in a diplomatic vehicle and transported to another country.

    I remember the days when assange was the likes of the guardians hero.
  • Rumours of a full-on PM statement this afternoon.

    If so what do we think?

    No Deal
    Resigning
    GE
    2nd Ref
    My favourite would be "nothing very much other than a lot of huffing and puffing about how rude the EU have been and a restatement of the Mayite position."
    "I have been taking advice from SeanT and as a result I have directed our armed forces to begin a bombardment of Brussels, except for four days a month when we will bombard Strasbourg instead"
  • Rumours May is to give a steps of number 10, full lectern job at 1:45pm

    Think she's calling it a day? I would not blame her one bit.

    She will restate how wonderful Chequers is and the alternative is No Deal.

    Nothing has changed.
    Very likely - and why May is unsuited as a leader. Now is the time to be bold and decisive.
  • Rumours of a full-on PM statement this afternoon.

    If so what do we think?

    No Deal
    Resigning
    GE
    2nd Ref
    My favourite would be "nothing very much other than a lot of huffing and puffing about how rude the EU have been and a restatement of the Mayite position."
    Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed.
    Candidly, nothing much has.

    I'm trying to work out what the EU is trying to achieve by being so blunt. Perhaps they think they will do better with whoever might replace her.
    Beyond me too. Seems to have an epic fail of diplomacy on all sides.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Cynical attempt to deflect media attention from the UKIP conference...
  • Grurdian...

    Russian diplomats held secret talks in London last year with people close to Julian Assange to assess whether they could help him flee the UK, the Guardian has learned.

    A tentative plan was devised that would have seen the WikiLeaks founder smuggled out of Ecuador’s London embassy in a diplomatic vehicle and transported to another country.

    I remember the days when assange was the likes of the guardians hero.

    That was when Seamus Milne ran the comment section.
  • Do they mean proper, full-blown roadcrash No Deal? Or orderly exit on WTO terms with some sort of agreement to keep planes flying, medicines being licensed etc?

    I understand the latter being a political position that people might strive for, especially in response to an alternative they find sub-optimal. My feeling is that an MP who doesn't do their utmost to avoid the former might find the referendum result a sweet but distant memory among constituents when they get blamed for bad outcomes.


  • Who's you 'Evil Chaotic' - Adonis?

    Boris?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    HYUFD said:
    Interesting. The Tories doing much better with this cohort than I would have thought!
  • Well I am not sure what she is going to say, but if it is just 'I am sticking with Chequers' she would be better off not saying it at all - it won't achieve anything except wind up everyone.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    murali_s said:

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting. The Tories doing much better with this cohort than I would have thought!
    The LDs doing even better
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Rather ominous weather in Central London right now.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited September 2018

    Rumours May is to give a steps of number 10, full lectern job at 1:45pm

    Think she's calling it a day? I would not blame her one bit.

    She will restate how wonderful Chequers is and the alternative is No Deal.

    Nothing has changed.
    That is my guess...and something about continuing to work hard to try to talk with EU.
    Hold on we all know what happened the last time a senior politician gave a speech at a lectern...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Election? - nope

    Resignation? - maybe

    Nuclear strike on Brussels for dissing her? - nailed on
    Gets Sean T's vote
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    As I said on here last night, a pathetically predictable response from elements of the Conservative heartland.

    The usual media suspects have gone overboard on their anti-European ranting pulling out all the old stereotypes and re-enforcing them because they dared not to strew rose petals on the path of the beloved Britannia.

    Do I feel "insulted" or "humiliated" ? Not in the least. May's a grown up - she's been in politics long enough to know how the game is played and the dance is danced. Yesterday was a reality check - we've heard nothing but the mantra of "hard work" from the Prime Minister since July 2016 but has that work been done? It seems not.

    We've gone there puffed up by our own expectations that the EU will roll over and do a deal - no, they won't. It's vital for them to make it as difficult as possible for us - "you can have the Euro any time you like but you can never leave".

    None of this means a deal can't or won't be done but the deal will be a tough sell for May as it will mean more concessions even than Chequers and while it seems the red line for her isn't immigration but "our precious union" that might not be where other people's red lines are.

    It now seems for some "no deal IS better than a bad deal" once again.

    Of course if Blair had imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 as he could have done the immigration problem would have been much less of an issue.

    As it is I think May will agree a stay in the single market and customs union through the transition period deal for the UK with a customs union backstop for NI but if that has not produced a FTA by the end of 2020 I think Boris will challenge on a Canada style FTA for GB platform
    Even if Blair had imposed a transition period that would have done nothing other than delay the inevitable. Free movement would still be there. The issues would still be there.

    We imposed the maximum possible transition controls on Romania, did that stop a surge in Romanian migrants? No of course it didn't. We now have more Romanians in this country than either Irish or Indians.

    Transition controls are not the answer.
    The lack of transition controls meant the largest number of the Eastern European migrants from Poland, Hungary etc flooded here rather than the rest of the EU for 7 years, after 7 years they were spread more evenly
    The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot.
  • Chexit means Chexit.

    :lol:
    Exit Chequesit
    ie we don't pay the £40bn to the EU.
  • Laura K suggested on Politics Live that a Cabinet Minister had intended to resign at the weekend if Salzburg had confirmed progress towards a Chequers-style endpoint. How do we bet?
  • Well I am not sure what she is going to say, but if it is just 'I am sticking with Chequers' she would be better off not saying it at all - it won't achieve anything except wind up everyone.

    She is delusional if she says that.

    How can she possibly go into Conference still saying that after yesterday?
  • TOPPING said:

    Rumours May is to give a steps of number 10, full lectern job at 1:45pm

    Think she's calling it a day? I would not blame her one bit.

    She will restate how wonderful Chequers is and the alternative is No Deal.

    Nothing has changed.
    That is my guess...and something about continuing to work hard to try to talk with EU.
    Hold on we all know what happened the last time a senior politician gave a speech at a lectern...
    Look out for the guy nearby with the briefcase
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
  • My scenario of David Davis getting a coronation to be PM for two years - to implement a Canada plus deal before standing down for a new leader - looks ever closer to reality today....

    God forbid. The laziest politician in history. Though, actually, for those of us that think less government is a good thing.....
  • maaarsh said:

    Cynical attempt to deflect media attention from the UKIP conference...

    My vote for winning the Internet today
  • Odd to see the PM's chief of staff getting into Twitter spats about Brexit (and not coming off well)...

    https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1042717676374839296
    https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/1042725911676825600
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    They do.
    No-one cares.
    (Well, other than people occasionally complaining that they don't have any policies, but without actually seeing if they do or they don't).
    The press don't cover the policies because the story's Brexit, which is understandable, if frustrating for the Lib Dems.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    After the Tweet about Raab saying he isn't "sure" whether the EU are acting in good faith in these negotiations I wonder whether Theresa May is going to say she's suspending all talks until the EU can prove they're taking these negotiations seriously - And in the meantime we'll be stepping up "No Deal" planning?
  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited September 2018

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
  • "The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot"

    Good post Mr Thompson. What you may not like though, is that it is for this very reason that in the long term Brexit will not make "one jot" of difference to immigration to this country. We will simply get less Eastern Europeans and more people from the Indian sub-continent and places like Somalia. That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling
  • Odd to see the PM's chief of staff getting into Twitter spats about Brexit (and not coming off well)...

    https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1042717676374839296
    https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/1042725911676825600

    How is Chequers "negotiable with the EU"?
  • "Prime Ministerial crest on the podium so not an election", according to Twitter.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    "Prime Ministerial crest on the podium so not an election", according to Twitter.

    An election wouldn't solve anything - the problem isn't with Parliament.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    Engineering degrees (very comparable to Medicine) are full-on - 9am to 5pm 5 days a week! Most other degrees, 2 to 3 hours a week!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141

    That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling

    Too late. They're alreaddy at 4000rpm and rising... :)
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Odd to see the PM's chief of staff getting into Twitter spats about Brexit (and not coming off well)...

    https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1042717676374839296
    https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/1042725911676825600

    Well, yeah. The question May's got to resolve isn't "What is compatible with the referendum result (literally anything that involves leaving the EU between a super-EEA-plus-plus-plus and implementation of Juche) and negotiable with the EU?", but "What is compatible with the referendum result and won't fuck the Conservative Party too badly?"

    Asking for sympathy for the latter from people who aren't Conservative members is a bit optimistic.
  • HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    Labour are led by an OAP of considerably lower intellect than Cable, but it doesn't seem to stop the gullible young from thinking he is a slimmed down Santa. Maybe Cable needs to start being a little more anti-Semitic or perhaps visiting a shrine to some middle-eastern gangster/terrorist?
  • "The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot"

    Good post Mr Thompson. What you may not like though, is that it is for this very reason that in the long term Brexit will not make "one jot" of difference to immigration to this country. We will simply get less Eastern Europeans and more people from the Indian sub-continent and places like Somalia. That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling

    Perhaps but I'm OK with it.

    If we end discrimination in favour of Europeans and come up with a more sensible solution then all the better. The Migration Advisory Council recently advised ending discrimination combined with abolishing the cap on skilled migrants. That looks reasonable.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    My experience on uni campuses is that there is a larger proportion than ever before that just head down with only goal of getting on a graduate scheme. While on one hand it is commendable, it is also negative in that in deep understanding of a subject is trumped by a "what do I need to get a 2:1" attitude. They don't want to get involved in any nonsense with fear of harming their job applications.

    And there is also a larger proportion of the loud mouth rabble, who appear to make it a job to get offended at the smallest thing.

    The "squeezed middle" of those going to uni for a laugh, doing minimal work to get by and worrying about a career later is far smaller these days.
  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    What if she quits as Con leader but stays as PM for now. She could stay on as caretaker PM
  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    When Dave retired he didn’t go see the Queen, he just rang the palace beforehand to inform Her Majesty that he was standing down.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited September 2018
    murali_s said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    Engineering degrees (very comparable to Medicine) are full-on - 9am to 5pm 5 days a week! Most other degrees, 2 to 3 hours a week!
    Rubbish. Engineering students sat in the bar discussing heavy metal over a pint and a roll-up. Arts students sat under trees reading books. The only students working were the chemists who spent every afternoon in the lab and every evening writing up what they'd done in the lab. It's possible I might be biased. Or bitter. Medical students kept to themselves but disappeared off the wards each lunchtime to watch Neighbours (that dates me).
  • "The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot"

    Good post Mr Thompson. What you may not like though, is that it is for this very reason that in the long term Brexit will not make "one jot" of difference to immigration to this country. We will simply get less Eastern Europeans and more people from the Indian sub-continent and places like Somalia. That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling

    Perhaps but I'm OK with it.

    If we end discrimination in favour of Europeans and come up with a more sensible solution then all the better. The Migration Advisory Council recently advised ending discrimination combined with abolishing the cap on skilled migrants. That looks reasonable.
    Well it is a view I suppose, but considering a large number of people were voting for immigration control (or so we are told), then there are going to be a lot of very pissed off xenophobes when they realise immigration has just switched its focus
  • eekeek Posts: 28,412

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    My experience on uni campuses is that there is a larger proportion than ever before that just head down with only goal of getting on a graduate scheme. While on one hand it is commendable, it is also negative in that in deep understanding of a subject is trumped by a "what do I need to get a 2:1" attitude. They don't want to get involved in any nonsense with fear of harming their job applications.

    And there is also a larger proportion of the loud mouth rabble, who appear to make it a job to get offended at the smallest thing.

    The "squeezed middle" of those going to uni for a laugh, doing minimal work to get by and worrying about a career later is far smaller these days.
    University now costs £50,000+. The squeezed middle not doing much was fine when you weren't in debt at the end of it nowadays you need to have a purpose to be there...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    As I suggested recently, Biden's handling of the Anita Hill questioning back when Thomas was confirmed to the Supreme Court is becoming a talking point:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/21/joe-biden-anita-hill-kavanaugh-833598
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited September 2018
    RobD said:

    "Prime Ministerial crest on the podium so not an election", according to Twitter.

    An election wouldn't solve anything - the problem isn't with Parliament.
    It's just unfortunate timing as the country faces it's most serious crisis since the second World War (albeit a self inflicted crisis), we can depend on a political class (on all sides) who are at best, grade E.
  • Pound falling
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    Labour are led by an OAP of considerably lower intellect than Cable, but it doesn't seem to stop the gullible young from thinking he is a slimmed down Santa. Maybe Cable needs to start being a little more anti-Semitic or perhaps visiting a shrine to some middle-eastern gangster/terrorist?
    Corbyn has (IMO by luck rather than skill) become the candidate that people pin all their beliefs on, despite what he does or doesn't say. Hence huge numbers of people thinking he is pro-Brexit, while equal numbers think he is anti-Brexit.

    He is right place, right time, whereby people are looking for some change and the Tories don't seem to stand for anything other than trying to tell people to keep calm and carry on while also unwilling to defend capitalism and Lib Dems are seen as simply the anti-Brexit party.

  • She went to Austria puffed up by widespread Tory and media expectations that the EU will roll over and do a deal. They've now realized, shockingly late, that this isn't in fact the case. And since that was the sole assumption underlying May's entire strategy (if you can call it that) it's difficult to overstate how much of a personal, UTTER disaster this has been for her.

    You know what they say, never get high on your own supply. That applies to Brexiteer bullshit as well as hard drugs.

    Some of this is just regular media dynamics rather than a particularly Brexit thing. The EU position is quite frustrating for the media because it's nuanced, which is bad, but it never really fundamentally changes, which is terrible. They have to get oohs and ahs from somewhere, so when they're having a "relations cooling" week they'll pick on comments saying the basic position, and when they're having a "relations warming" week they'll find comments saying we'd like to make deal, we're open to new ideas, everybody has to compromise etc etc.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    "The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot"

    Good post Mr Thompson. What you may not like though, is that it is for this very reason that in the long term Brexit will not make "one jot" of difference to immigration to this country. We will simply get less Eastern Europeans and more people from the Indian sub-continent and places like Somalia. That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling

    Perhaps but I'm OK with it.

    If we end discrimination in favour of Europeans and come up with a more sensible solution then all the better. The Migration Advisory Council recently advised ending discrimination combined with abolishing the cap on skilled migrants. That looks reasonable.
    Well it is a view I suppose, but considering a large number of people were voting for immigration control (or so we are told), then there are going to be a lot of very pissed off xenophobes when they realise immigration has just switched its focus
    Nigel, I keep meaning to ask you, why do you say F O Remain? :)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141
    edited September 2018
    [deleted. catty]
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    My experience on uni campuses is that there is a larger proportion than ever before that just head down with only goal of getting on a graduate scheme. While on one hand it is commendable, it is also negative in that in deep understanding of a subject is trumped by a "what do I need to get a 2:1" attitude. They don't want to get involved in any nonsense with fear of harming their job applications.

    And there is also a larger proportion of the loud mouth rabble, who appear to make it a job to get offended at the smallest thing.

    The "squeezed middle" of those going to uni for a laugh, doing minimal work to get by and worrying about a career later is far smaller these days.
    University now costs £50,000+. The squeezed middle not doing much was fine when you weren't in debt at the end of it nowadays you need to have a purpose to be there...
    I actually think it starts earlier than that. Due to a combine of grade inflation and number of people believing uni is the only way you can get a good career, there is a lot more competition. Therefore, the attitude of I'll get 3B/C's at A-level and will still be ok, get into a uni and then still get a decent graudate job doesn't exist.

    But I am also sure the fees / loans also focuses minds not to piss it all up the wall.
  • murali_s said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    Engineering degrees (very comparable to Medicine) are full-on - 9am to 5pm 5 days a week! Most other degrees, 2 to 3 hours a week!
    Rubbish. Engineering students sat in the bar discussing heavy metal over a pint and a roll-up. Arts students sat under trees reading books. The only students working were the chemists who spent every afternoon in the lab and every evening writing up what they'd done in the lab. It's possible I might be biased. Or bitter. Medical students kept to themselves but disappeared off the wards each lunchtime to watch Neighbours (that dates me).
    Medical students (male ones anyway) generally spend their time either banging on about how clever they are or banging anyone in a nurses uniform in any nearby and available hospital broom-cupboard
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Pound falling

    Traders looking for a quick profit?
  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    When Dave retired he didn’t go see the Queen, he just rang the palace beforehand to inform Her Majesty that he was standing down.
    Mrs May has better manners.
  • "The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot"

    Good post Mr Thompson. What you may not like though, is that it is for this very reason that in the long term Brexit will not make "one jot" of difference to immigration to this country. We will simply get less Eastern Europeans and more people from the Indian sub-continent and places like Somalia. That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling

    Perhaps but I'm OK with it.

    If we end discrimination in favour of Europeans and come up with a more sensible solution then all the better. The Migration Advisory Council recently advised ending discrimination combined with abolishing the cap on skilled migrants. That looks reasonable.
    Well it is a view I suppose, but considering a large number of people were voting for immigration control (or so we are told), then there are going to be a lot of very pissed off xenophobes when they realise immigration has just switched its focus
    Switching our focus from allowing in any unskilled Eastern Europeans wanting an easy ride into a developed nation ... towards a focus on high-skilled, high-value migrants like an uncapped number of doctors etc will be good for the country and the economy.

    Xenophobes can go swivel.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    Not sure.

    She could announce she's resigning as Con leader (but staying on as PM until a new leader is elected) In that situation she wouldn't need to see the Queen (as she would still be HMQ's PM)

    The PM only needs to go to the Palace when they stop becoming PM (and then the new PM is sent for)
  • GIN1138 said:

    Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    Not sure.

    She could announce she's resigning as Con leader (but staying on as PM until a new leader is elected) In that situation she wouldn't need to see the Queen (as she would still be HMQ's PM)

    The PM only needs to go to the Palace when they stop becoming PM (and then the new PM is sent for)
    Only 5 minutes to wait
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141

    Rubbish. Engineering students sat in the bar discussing heavy metal over a pint and a roll-up. Arts students sat under trees reading books. The only students working were the chemists who spent every afternoon in the lab and every evening writing up what they'd done in the lab.

    The maths, stats and computer sciences students worked every single bloody hour and wonder where the time went... :(

  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    When Dave retired he didn’t go see the Queen, he just rang the palace beforehand to inform Her Majesty that he was standing down.
    Mrs May has better manners.
    Was the way she treated the Queen over the DUP deal-that-wasn’t good manners?
  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    When Dave retired he didn’t go see the Queen, he just rang the palace beforehand to inform Her Majesty that he was standing down.
    Mrs May has better manners.
    No, it was agreed beforehand, as it was with the Indyref.
  • viewcode said:

    Rubbish. Engineering students sat in the bar discussing heavy metal over a pint and a roll-up. Arts students sat under trees reading books. The only students working were the chemists who spent every afternoon in the lab and every evening writing up what they'd done in the lab.

    The maths, stats and computer sciences students worked every single bloody hour and wonder where the time went... :(

    Well that's what I tell people I did ;-)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    When Dave retired he didn’t go see the Queen, he just rang the palace beforehand to inform Her Majesty that he was standing down.
    Mrs May has better manners.
    Or is simply less decisive.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141
    I'm in work at the moment (I'm in a free room) so I won't be able to habituate this site easily. Is there a site that gives a real-time transcript of the speech as May gives it?
  • philiph said:

    "The UK is an attractive country transition controls or no transition controls. Especially given our native language is a common second language now across the globe.

    We imposed the transition controls on Romania. Didn't change migration one jot"

    Good post Mr Thompson. What you may not like though, is that it is for this very reason that in the long term Brexit will not make "one jot" of difference to immigration to this country. We will simply get less Eastern Europeans and more people from the Indian sub-continent and places like Somalia. That should get a few eyes in suburban Brexitopia swivelling

    Perhaps but I'm OK with it.

    If we end discrimination in favour of Europeans and come up with a more sensible solution then all the better. The Migration Advisory Council recently advised ending discrimination combined with abolishing the cap on skilled migrants. That looks reasonable.
    Well it is a view I suppose, but considering a large number of people were voting for immigration control (or so we are told), then there are going to be a lot of very pissed off xenophobes when they realise immigration has just switched its focus
    Nigel, I keep meaning to ask you, why do you say F O Remain? :)
    hehe. Well that is one interpretation! That is what 52% of people did. It could be my real name, or it could be a very poor joke on Nigel For Age, as it is mainly the elderly that support the leering fascist.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2018

    GIN1138 said:

    Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    Not sure.

    She could announce she's resigning as Con leader (but staying on as PM until a new leader is elected) In that situation she wouldn't need to see the Queen (as she would still be HMQ's PM)

    The PM only needs to go to the Palace when they stop becoming PM (and then the new PM is sent for)
    Only 5 minutes to wait
    Oh I don't think she's resigning. Just saying she *could* resign [as Con Leader, not PM yet] and not have to see HMQ first.
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    My experience on uni campuses is that there is a larger proportion than ever before that just head down with only goal of getting on a graduate scheme. While on one hand it is commendable, it is also negative in that in deep understanding of a subject is trumped by a "what do I need to get a 2:1" attitude. They don't want to get involved in any nonsense with fear of harming their job applications.

    And there is also a larger proportion of the loud mouth rabble, who appear to make it a job to get offended at the smallest thing.

    The "squeezed middle" of those going to uni for a laugh, doing minimal work to get by and worrying about a career later is far smaller these days.
    University now costs £50,000+. The squeezed middle not doing much was fine when you weren't in debt at the end of it nowadays you need to have a purpose to be there...
    I actually think it starts earlier than that. Due to a combine of grade inflation and number of people believing uni is the only way you can get a good career, there is a lot more competition. Therefore, the attitude of I'll get 3B/C's at A-level and will still be ok, get into a uni and then still get a decent graudate job doesn't exist.

    But I am also sure the fees / loans also focuses minds not to piss it all up the wall.
    Cultural as well. The schools are now very exam-focused, which carries forward, and for a lot of immigrant families, education was always seen as the way out of poverty and peasant farming back in the old country.
  • viewcode said:

    I'm in work at the moment (I'm in a free room) so I won't be able to habituate this site easily. Is there a site that gives a real-time transcript of the speech as May gives it?

    Maybe the guardian live
  • viewcode said:

    I'm in work at the moment (I'm in a free room) so I won't be able to habituate this site easily. Is there a site that gives a real-time transcript of the speech as May gives it?

    The Guardian live blog - while not real time transcript - is among the best at keeping up to date.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141

    viewcode said:

    Rubbish. Engineering students sat in the bar discussing heavy metal over a pint and a roll-up. Arts students sat under trees reading books. The only students working were the chemists who spent every afternoon in the lab and every evening writing up what they'd done in the lab.

    The maths, stats and computer sciences students worked every single bloody hour and wonder where the time went... :(

    Well that's what I tell people I did ;-)
    That's what I did!
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Oh dear, Theresa is going to double down.

    Instead she needs to reset or resign.
  • When I was at university, the law students could be seen queuing up waiting for the law library to open at 9am #justsaying
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926

    Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    Cameron resigned at 8am doubt he had been to see HM at 7am
  • Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    When Dave retired he didn’t go see the Queen, he just rang the palace beforehand to inform Her Majesty that he was standing down.
    Mrs May has better manners.
    No, it was agreed beforehand, as it was with the Indyref.
    I doubt Mrs May knew before Salzburg how it was going to turn out....
  • viewcode said:

    I'm in work at the moment (I'm in a free room) so I won't be able to habituate this site easily. Is there a site that gives a real-time transcript of the speech as May gives it?

    Probably this is your best option.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2018/sep/21/theresa-may-makes-statement-outside-no-10
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Talk about sucking all the energy out of a room...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2018
    BBC1 not carrying PM's statement... So not going to be *that* dramatic. :D
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    My experience on uni campuses is that there is a larger proportion than ever before that just head down with only goal of getting on a graduate scheme. While on one hand it is commendable, it is also negative in that in deep understanding of a subject is trumped by a "what do I need to get a 2:1" attitude. They don't want to get involved in any nonsense with fear of harming their job applications.

    And there is also a larger proportion of the loud mouth rabble, who appear to make it a job to get offended at the smallest thing.

    The "squeezed middle" of those going to uni for a laugh, doing minimal work to get by and worrying about a career later is far smaller these days.
    University now costs £50,000+. The squeezed middle not doing much was fine when you weren't in debt at the end of it nowadays you need to have a purpose to be there...
    I actually think it starts earlier than that. Due to a combine of grade inflation and number of people believing uni is the only way you can get a good career, there is a lot more competition. Therefore, the attitude of I'll get 3B/C's at A-level and will still be ok, get into a uni and then still get a decent graudate job doesn't exist.

    But I am also sure the fees / loans also focuses minds not to piss it all up the wall.
    Cultural as well. The schools are now very exam-focused, which carries forward, and for a lot of immigrant families, education was always seen as the way out of poverty and peasant farming back in the old country.
    Oh absolutely. My only real issue as I have said in the past (when I was teaching at unis, I started to see this becoming more prevalent) that the primarily focus on was what was needed for an exam, not first trying to understand the subject (and enjoy doing so), then worrying about the exam.
  • GIN1138 said:

    BBC1 not carrying PM's statement... So not going to be *that* dramatic. :D

    BBC news channel covering it
  • eekeek Posts: 28,412

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is genuinely surprising.

    Imagine if the Lib Dems weren't led by an OAP and had some policies beyond stop Brexit.
    It would be interesting to see the political split amongst graduates in different subjects.

    In my day the sociology students were the left wing people who spent their time in the coffee bar and protesting whilst the engineers (like me) were working and non political.
    My experience on uni campuses is that there is a larger proportion than ever before that just head down with only goal of getting on a graduate scheme. While on one hand it is commendable, it is also negative in that in deep understanding of a subject is trumped by a "what do I need to get a 2:1" attitude. They don't want to get involved in any nonsense with fear of harming their job applications.

    And there is also a larger proportion of the loud mouth rabble, who appear to make it a job to get offended at the smallest thing.

    The "squeezed middle" of those going to uni for a laugh, doing minimal work to get by and worrying about a career later is far smaller these days.
    University now costs £50,000+. The squeezed middle not doing much was fine when you weren't in debt at the end of it nowadays you need to have a purpose to be there...
    I actually think it starts earlier than that. Due to a combine of grade inflation and number of people believing uni is the only way you can get a good career, there is a lot more competition. Therefore, the attitude of I'll get 3B/C's at A-level and will still be ok, get into a uni and then still get a decent graudate job doesn't exist.

    But I am also sure the fees / loans also focuses minds not to piss it all up the wall.
    You need 3 A's to get on the course you want at a Russell Group / Red Brick university and you need the name of the University to get you into the next stage..

    Oh and we were at a 6th form introduction talk this week - it's now harder to get into some degree apprenticeships than it is to get into some medicine degrees...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2018

    Oh dear, Theresa is going to double down.

    Instead she needs to reset or resign.

    People need to send in their letters. She is wasting what little time we have left chasing this mirage.
  • Oh dear, Theresa is going to double down.

    Instead she needs to reset or resign.

    People need to send in their letters. She is wasting what little time we have left chasing this mirage.
    Has she spoken yet
  • GIN1138 said:

    Unlikely to be resignation as Mrs May would have seen the Queen first....

    Not sure.

    She could announce she's resigning as Con leader (but staying on as PM until a new leader is elected) In that situation she wouldn't need to see the Queen (as she would still be HMQ's PM)

    The PM only needs to go to the Palace when they stop becoming PM (and then the new PM is sent for)
    It won't be though. If she resigned as PM, she'd make it impossible for the government to conduct negotiations until a replacement was in place, which'd take at least a month and probably into November - as no-one would in the EU be able to trust what May said as she'd have no domestic base on which to give promises, but nor would anyone else be able to negotiate until the leadership election was over. That kind of delay, combined with the almost inevitable Leaver win, would mean No Deal would become almost inevitable, and May would get most of the blame. She must be aware of that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    BBC1 not carrying PM's statement... So not going to be *that* dramatic. :D

    BBC news channel covering it
    Yeah but if it was going to be some sort of resignation speech Downing St, would've made sure BBC1 was showing it I'm sure...
  • Oh dear, Theresa is going to double down.

    Instead she needs to reset or resign.

    People need to send in their letters. She is wasting what little time we have left chasing this mirage.
    Has she spoken yet
    No but the BBC has this up now. Seems her people have pre-briefed the media: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45603192
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rubbish. Engineering students sat in the bar discussing heavy metal over a pint and a roll-up. Arts students sat under trees reading books. The only students working were the chemists who spent every afternoon in the lab and every evening writing up what they'd done in the lab.

    The maths, stats and computer sciences students worked every single bloody hour and wonder where the time went... :(

    Well that's what I tell people I did ;-)
    That's what I did!
    I wouldn't recommend anybody follow my approach to undergraduate study....Mr Red Bull did very well out of the times I actually decided to do work. By "decided", I mean the deadline was coming up fast and I needed to code something that was supposed to take 100hrs in a few days.
  • A good and depressing thread.
    twitter.com/garvanwalshe/status/1043050192675762176?s=21
    twitter.com/garvanwalshe/status/1043051647642030080?s=21
    twitter.com/garvanwalshe/status/1043051728793464832?s=21

    As the last tweet almost notes, the American president is more sceptical about NATO than Jeremy Corbyn.
This discussion has been closed.