The short money is a good point. If enough of them defected it would be pretty significant, and enough to properly establish themselves free from the shackles of the Momentum tyranny, whilst simultaneously denying Corbyn et al
I don't think that's right. The Short money is allocated on the basis of the number of seats a given party got at the last election. MPs who defect don't AFAIK take the dosh with them (for example, I don't think UKIP got any Short money when Carswell and Reckless defected, they only became eligible when Carswell regained his seat as a Kipper in 2015).
Admittedly this could presumably be changed by parliament (or the government?), but as things stand I believe the Short money would stay with Labour if there's a split.
Also, the new party or grouping couldn't nick the Labour name.
An amount of Short money (just under £1m) is set aside for the running of the LotO’s office. Do you think this wouldn’t be available to a new LotO if there wasn’t an interim election? Could the Speaker decide this or would Parliament need to vote on it? (Could be more popcorn!)
I'm sure if the Govt. wanted to issue a "clarification", that would magically acquire a Parliamentary majority. Whichever way they went!
Does pose an interesting dilemma for the Govt. though. Do they want to keep the status quo (Corbyn, who they beat before he was a known anti-semite and after running the crappest campaign in political history) - or do they want to be seen to side with the anti-anti-semites in the best interests of democracy....even though it may not ultimately be in their best interests?
Mr. Foremain, the difference between the two positions you cite is that one is held by backbenchers for the Conservatives, the other is held by the Labour front bench.
Corbyn was himself just an idiot on the back benches for many years. Now he's determining policies and positions. Having Iranian state TV livestreaming the first step in deselecting an MP for not being loyal enough is rancid.
You make a valid point. It does not stop my concern for the direction of travel for a party that I have been a member for many years. I can tell you that it takes a lot of soul searching for someone who has held positions of responsibility within the Conservative party to say he would vote Labour if there a moderate leader in charge. It is only the Anti-Semite who is holding me back from popping my Labour cherry
So when Hague (Europe) and Howard (immigration )were the leaders of the cons,did you still vote conservative at the GE ?
I did
Wow,from the PC post you bring us on here,I had you down has a arch-blairite,thought you may have lent your vote then.
And I bet you voted for Cameron and his referendum promise didn't you.
In fairness, you probably consider anyone left of Tommy Johnson dangerously PC.
Are you still slagging your home town off every spare moment, yet still living there?
It's city not a town,I think you will find the last time I was on I was posting how unfair the asylum system was treating poor parts of the city and how white area's of yorkshire were taking bugger all.
I don’t see Joan Ryan as worth saving. I’d vote to de-select her.
(I have more time for Gavin Shuker).
I think deselections are a consequence of the membership and PLP being so out-of-kilter. They are therefore necessary.
Typical Corbynite, favours the views of a few hundred thousand Labour members over the views of several million Labour voters. Posts like this make me think that there's no hope for the party.
I think the best hope must be for all the MPs who voted for no confidence in Corbyn to set up their own grouping. They rename the party The Parliamentary Labour Party and ask moderate Labour members to join. The rump Labour party can rebrand as Momentum.
The same thing may be necessary for the Tory party. I have nothing in common with Brexiters, they are economy crashers in the same way Corbyn is ,and large numbers (like Corbyn) are racists. The only real difference is their eyes swivel in the opposite direction.
What are the numbers? If > 50% of MPs are not Corbynites they could overnight form the Official Opposition and have a Leader of the Opposition. Corbyn would then be the leader of the 3rd or 4th party. They'd need money, but I hear that there's £50Million going begging. They'd need an electoral agreement with the LibDems. They'd need to support PR so that the realignment can be completed after the next election. Or they could be picked off one at a time.
They will be picked off one at a time as it is, though I fear they are going to sit there like doomed rabbits in headlights. I must say that I am quite surprised that Momentum have started this early. They would be much better off starting much closer to an election so that the moderates don't get a "nothing to lose" mindset, but then extremists are always impatient
I expect that waiting for the new boundaries was going to provide the cover. As you say, they are impatient and there is ahead of fantatical steam brewing up in some CLPs and perhaps it is going to lead to a split sooner rather than later.
This Press TV incident is truly disturbing - my foreboding level has gone up a notch.
The Iranian government has form in threatening British citizens with violence.
The election night thread on here when Corbyn wins is going to be spectacular. A home counties version of Jonestown.
It certainly will be a night to remember on pb.
I wonder if perhaps some of these very monied people shrieking about “threats to the country" are more worried about threats to their share portfolios.
You do realise that most peoples’ pensions are invested in shares, don’t you. So threats to share portfolios are threats to the pensions of millions of people.
Thinking about the next six months, before the Brexit negotiations are complete, do you think Theresa May should remain as leader of the Conservative Party, or stand down now and let someone else take over?
OA (Con VI) Remain: 43 (74) Stand Down: 34 (18) DN: 24 (8)
And once the Brexit negotiations are complete, do you think Theresa May should remain as leader of the Conservative Party, or stand down and let someone else take over?
OA (Con VI) Remain: 28 (57) Stand Down: 45 (33) DN: 27 (10)
Needless to say, Labour voters are keenest May step down now (49) or after March (59), but a majority of Conservatives want her to stay now and beyond March.
Interesting a near majority and clear plurality of both Remain (46) and Leave (48) voters think she should stay in post to see through Brexit. After Brexit, both think she should go.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
All it would take would be for Aaron Bastani to stand, for shits and giggles, and he'd win by a mile.
Yes, surely inspired by political point scoring rather than sincerity
Some things are better left unsaid. I doubt Javid needed to mention Corbyn by name without his point being crystal clear. "Some" would have served the purpose equally well - but maybe he wanted to wind up Magic Grandpa's fans....
Yes, surely inspired by political point scoring rather than sincerity
Some things are better left unsaid. I doubt Javid needed to mention Corbyn by name without his point being crystal clear. "Some" would have served the purpose equally well - but maybe he wanted to wind up Magic Grandpa's fans....
No doubt they will react and come up with some new theories about MOSSAD's leading agent in Bromsgrove.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
All it would take would be for Aaron Bastani to stand, for shits and giggles, and he'd win by a mile.
Unbelievably cretinous idea.
I literally can't believe the LibDems are this stupid.
If they do this and open the party to 1000s of nutjobs and whackos at £3 a pop or whatever, then another party will have been destroyed.
Has Vince simply gone mad after years on the frontline?
The saddest thing is that the new centrist group or party comprised of rejected labour MP's will just be born of an unwanted circumstance, with no coherant policy or programme. It will be even less successful than the SDP, in that although the SDP failed as a political project, it had a legacy that still shapes British politics. The centrists greatest problem is that they keep interpreting the current political situation through the paradigm of the early 80's, when in reality we have a wholly different set of circumstances, that requires entirely new thinking. Yet the labour MP's appear to be incapable of this, and are trapped by a mixture of tribal loyalty, alt liberal discourse, and the brutal realities of the first past the post system. So they will all simply fade in to obscurity, the strange death of centrist Britain.
There is quite widespread support for a fairly radical political manifesto on these lines:
If the Labour Party could control its anti-semites and entryist thugs, then it would do quite well. Whether soggy Centrism could gather anything like the suppoet, I doubt.
The cross-tabs on EU referendum result show some major variations. YouGov have the Tories doing better among Leavers and worse among Remainers than the other pollsters.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
All it would take would be for Aaron Bastani to stand, for shits and giggles, and he'd win by a mile.
Unbelievably cretinous idea.
I literally can't believe the LibDems are this stupid.
If they do this and open the party to 1000s of nutjobs and whackos at £3 a pop or whatever, then another party will have been destroyed.
Has Vince simply gone mad after years on the frontline?
Not even £3. It is free!
It will be interesting to see how conference reacts, I would be surprised if it was supported.
What was it about never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake? There is absolutely no need for Tories to get involved with Labour’s civil war.
Javid is a weathervane. He is not cut out to be PM.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
All it would take would be for Aaron Bastani to stand, for shits and giggles, and he'd win by a mile.
Unbelievably cretinous idea.
I literally can't believe the LibDems are this stupid.
If they do this and open the party to 1000s of nutjobs and whackos at £3 a pop or whatever, then another party will have been destroyed.
Has Vince simply gone mad after years on the frontline?
Vince hasn't even noticed Ed Miliband isn't leader any more.
What was it about never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake? There is absolutely no need for Tories to get involved with Labour’s civil war.
Javid is a weathervane. He is not cut out to be PM.
Agreed. And silly too because there is of course also anti-semitism on the right. He really did not need to mention Corbyn’s name at all. The phrase “feeling under threat” said all that was needed.
Surely Vince Cable is making it as easy as possible for a defecting Labour MP to get the gig? If so, it looks like a quite clever way of doing it on a one-off basis, provided that there mechanisms to exclude explicitly "vote for the worst" candidates.
What was it about never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake? There is absolutely no need for Tories to get involved with Labour’s civil war.
Javid is a weathervane. He is not cut out to be PM.
Agreed. And silly too because there is of course also anti-semitism on the right. He really did not need to mention Corbyn’s name at all. The phrase “feeling under threat” said all that was needed.
Are there antisemites on the right of the political spectrum. Yes. Do they have key roles in the major right-wing party? No. I don’t think it’s really comparable to what’s happening with the Labour Party.
In any case, it’s irresponsible for a government minister, especially the one with responsibility for public order, to stir things up in this way.
However, must say I listened to his phone in on Radio Kent, while travelling S of the River, last Sunday and he sounded rational and sensible..
I do think recruiting people as ‘supporters” without any commitment whatsoever is an idea for the birds, though. Can’t believe Conference would vote for it! Can’t follow Vince’s logic either.
Edit. Don’t mind recruiting supporters but NOT giving them a vote. Not, Not, Not!!!
The danger is obvious, but I don't see that the LD registered supporter experiment is guaranteed to fail.
After all, the people who brought Labour to its current state were mostly genuine supporters, whatever talk there was of corrupting the vote at the time. Labour did it to itself.
If the body of LD registered supporters are of similar sincerity, the prospects for things to veer off course are perhaps lower than for Labour.
As a lifelong Labour supporter and 35 year despiser of Corbyn, McDonnell, Dave Nellist, Derek Hatton, Momentum (and its previous guises such as militant tendency) and other assorted idiots I view the Joan Ryan deselection as the beginning of the end.
I was listening to a young, but longstanding Labour supporter (he had been a member since 2014!- around the time I left) on today's World at One, he was very excited! I assume this excitement was at the prospect of decades in opposition and thirty plus years of Mr Johnson and his successors leading our country through the sunlit uplands of 'no deal'.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
All it would take would be for Aaron Bastani to stand, for shits and giggles, and he'd win by a mile.
Unbelievably cretinous idea.
I literally can't believe the LibDems are this stupid.
If they do this and open the party to 1000s of nutjobs and whackos at £3 a pop or whatever, then another party will have been destroyed.
Has Vince simply gone mad after years on the frontline?
Not even £3. It is free!
It will be interesting to see how conference reacts, I would be surprised if it was supported.
Agreed that the Lib Dem proposal for a supporter group will be turned down by the members at conference.
If a breakaway party is to be a success I think it would effectively have to cannibalise Labour as a natural home for progressive left-wingers - as arguably the Lib Dems looked like doing for a brief moment in 2010. It should largely forget about 'centrism' other than laughing when its enemies called it that as saying that if centrism meant disagreeing with the obnoxiousness in the Tory and Labour parties, then we're centrists - but our policies would do more for the people than you. There's three obvious positive contrasts it could draw with Corbyn's Labour. Firstly, its opposition to the conspiracism, nastiness and anti-Semitism. Pledge to be the party of Robin Cook and Charlie Kennedy - so no Blairlike adventures, but also none of the toxic worldview of the far left. We'd seek to act through the UN or with the EU to build international consensus on issues, but actually trying to do something to help people rather than siding with cranks and the Kremlin. Secondly, by drawing a line between Corbynite unicorns and concrete, transformative, spending promises. Corbyn has promised to spend shedloads - but if you look at on what, I can't really think of one solid policy that properly deals with our national ills. Tuition fees? It's a deferred tax cut for the middle-class. Nationalisation? Well one shouldn't be opposed to it but it doesn't solve the big issue with the rail network - and won't on its own solve the buses. Tuition fees money could, say, be better used obviously on early years education, but also a beefed up adult education service linked to job centres - as a huge problem with the 'left behind' is that jobs are no longer lifelong careers as things shift too quickly - and if you don't make it into a job that offers wealth, you'll always be on the treadmill before eventually you fall off. Have a properly transformative plan for the north west centred around Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds as a new well connected economic hub (for two obvious ones - a national care service would be another, as would a proper national housing strategy). Thirdly, on Brexit, just to address the issue in practical terms rather than Labour's fudge it and hope for the best. Customs Union and Single Market, with a possible approach for an enhanced status that would allow for rejoining with reform - arguing for the positives (and that the benefits would be passed down, unlike in the past) and that that's the most practical approach for now but we would be leaving and Brexiteers would be free to take us further out if elected in the future.
I remember hearing someone say once that in order to get people onside, a politician should always make the voter think that it was their idea in the first place. Javid was telling the voter that Corbyn is anti-Semitic, May is better, albeit still a bit clumsy for me. No need for the second sentence
What was it about never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake? There is absolutely no need for Tories to get involved with Labour’s civil war.
Javid is a weathervane. He is not cut out to be PM.
Agreed. And silly too because there is of course also anti-semitism on the right. He really did not need to mention Corbyn’s name at all. The phrase “feeling under threat” said all that was needed.
Are there antisemites on the right of the political spectrum. Yes. Do they have key roles in the major right-wing party? No. I don’t think it’s really comparable to what’s happening with the Labour Party.
In any case, it’s irresponsible for a government minister, especially the one with responsibility for public order, to stir things up in this way.
Agreed.
May gets it right.
Javid should, quite separately from the greetings, have promised to fund security for Jews, thus showing the contrast with McDonnell’s failure to do so.
What was it about never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake? There is absolutely no need for Tories to get involved with Labour’s civil war.
Javid is a weathervane. He is not cut out to be PM.
Agreed. And silly too because there is of course also anti-semitism on the right. He really did not need to mention Corbyn’s name at all. The phrase “feeling under threat” said all that was needed.
Are there antisemites on the right of the political spectrum. Yes. Do they have key roles in the major right-wing party? No. I don’t think it’s really comparable to what’s happening with the Labour Party.
In any case, it’s irresponsible for a government minister, especially the one with responsibility for public order, to stir things up in this way.
Agreed.
May gets it right.
Javid should, quite separately from the greetings, have promised to fund security for Jews, thus showing the contrast with McDonnell’s failure to do so.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Moran is excellent. Plus she'd be taking Labour to the cleaners this summer given her background and knowledge of the issue that's dominated it. Seeing her and John McDonnell talk about anti-Semitism and its context as part of the Israel-Palestine conflict on PoliticsLive was embarrassing in a way that sums up Labour's problem. You had someone of Palestinian heritage who cared about the practicalities and nuances of an interminably difficult problem, but had clear empathy with all (and anger at those who behave badly) - and then McDonnell, who was trying to use amelioratory language but was essentially arguing that he and his revolutionary mates should have the excuse to shout what they like because isn't Israel awful.
If the Lib Dems had any sense (which they don't) they'd shove Vince out ASAP and get her in.
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
All it would take would be for Aaron Bastani to stand, for shits and giggles, and he'd win by a mile.
Unbelievably cretinous idea.
I literally can't believe the LibDems are this stupid.
If they do this and open the party to 1000s of nutjobs and whackos at £3 a pop or whatever, then another party will have been destroyed.
Has Vince simply gone mad after years on the frontline?
Not even £3. It is free!
It will be interesting to see how conference reacts, I would be surprised if it was supported.
Perhaps it’s an indirect method for him to resign in disappointment notwithstanding his Thatcheresque on and on statement. Even if he doesn’t appreciate it yet...."
I think the LDs would be on at least 15% with a different leader, such as Leyla Moran or Jo Swinson.
Vince seems to think an extra parliamentary leader is needed. I don't know if he has someone in mind, but it seems quite insulting to his MP colleagues to me.
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
There are no proposals to allow non-members to stand.
Members would also control nominations.
I'm very much unconvinced, but it's not quite that crazy.
"German spy chief at odds with Merkel over hounding of migrants in Chemnitz Michelle Martin, Paul Carrel
BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany’s domestic spy chief expressed scepticism on Friday that migrants had been hounded in Chemnitz after the fatal stabbing of a German man, undermining Chancellor Angela Merkel who has said images from the eastern city “very clearly” showed hate."
Comments
Does pose an interesting dilemma for the Govt. though. Do they want to keep the status quo (Corbyn, who they beat before he was a known anti-semite and after running the crappest campaign in political history) - or do they want to be seen to side with the anti-anti-semites in the best interests of democracy....even though it may not ultimately be in their best interests?
So when Hague (Europe) and Howard (immigration )were the leaders of the cons,did you still vote conservative at the GE ?
I did
Wow,from the PC post you bring us on here,I had you down has a arch-blairite,thought you may have lent your vote then.
And I bet you voted for Cameron and his referendum promise didn't you.
In fairness, you probably consider anyone left of Tommy Johnson dangerously PC.
Are you still slagging your home town off every spare moment, yet still living there? It's city not a town,I think you will find the last time I was on I was posting how unfair the asylum system was treating poor parts of the city and how white area's of yorkshire were taking bugger all.
So I think I just answered both your points.
Con: 39 (-)
Lab: 35 (-2)
LD: 11 (+1)
UKIP: 5 (-)
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/j73mcdcj1w/Times_180904_VI_Trackers_W.pdf
Thinking about the next six months, before the Brexit negotiations are complete, do you think Theresa May should remain as leader of the Conservative Party, or stand down now and let someone else take over?
OA (Con VI)
Remain: 43 (74)
Stand Down: 34 (18)
DN: 24 (8)
And once the Brexit negotiations are complete, do you think Theresa May should remain as leader of the Conservative Party, or stand down and let someone else take over?
OA (Con VI)
Remain: 28 (57)
Stand Down: 45 (33)
DN: 27 (10)
Needless to say, Labour voters are keenest May step down now (49) or after March (59), but a majority of Conservatives want her to stay now and beyond March.
Interesting a near majority and clear plurality of both Remain (46) and Leave (48) voters think she should stay in post to see through Brexit. After Brexit, both think she should go.
Right to leave: 42%
That's the highest ever figure for 'wrong to leave'.
A PM-in-waiting...
I like Layla, but would like to see a contest. It is important for leaders to be seen on the stump. Crazy to allow non members to vote, or even stand.
BMG out today has Lab +1.
So:
Survation: Lab +4
BMG: Lab +1
YouGov: Con +4
Unbelievably cretinous idea.
I literally can't believe the LibDems are this stupid.
If they do this and open the party to 1000s of nutjobs and whackos at £3 a pop or whatever, then another party will have been destroyed.
Has Vince simply gone mad after years on the frontline?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/05/ten-points-for-a-better-britain-institute-for-public-policy-research
If the Labour Party could control its anti-semites and entryist thugs, then it would do quite well. Whether soggy Centrism could gather anything like the suppoet, I doubt.
It will be interesting to see how conference reacts, I would be surprised if it was supported.
Javid is a weathervane. He is not cut out to be PM.
England 181 for 7
In any case, it’s irresponsible for a government minister, especially the one with responsibility for public order, to stir things up in this way.
However, must say I listened to his phone in on Radio Kent, while travelling S of the River, last Sunday and he sounded rational and sensible..
I do think recruiting people as ‘supporters” without any commitment whatsoever is an idea for the birds, though. Can’t believe Conference would vote for it! Can’t follow Vince’s logic either.
Edit. Don’t mind recruiting supporters but NOT giving them a vote. Not, Not, Not!!!
https://twitter.com/dawallach/status/1037913579997917185
After all, the people who brought Labour to its current state were mostly genuine supporters, whatever talk there was of corrupting the vote at the time. Labour did it to itself.
If the body of LD registered supporters are of similar sincerity, the prospects for things to veer off course are perhaps lower than for Labour.
So maybe I should stand to be Lib Dem leader.
....
[Are write-ins an option?]
I was listening to a young, but longstanding Labour supporter (he had been a member since 2014!- around the time I left) on today's World at One, he was very excited! I assume this excitement was at the prospect of decades in opposition and thirty plus years of Mr Johnson and his successors leading our country through the sunlit uplands of 'no deal'.
Agreed that the Lib Dem proposal for a supporter group will be turned down by the members at conference.
Lembit versus Boris - top billing.
Who could compete from Labour?
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
It is a truth universally acknowledged that the most accurate pollster at any one time is the one producing numbers that most please you.
OGH channels his inner Austen!
- AV
- Christianity and gays
- Legalising cannabis
- Brexit
- Sandals with socks?
May gets it right.
Javid should, quite separately from the greetings, have promised to fund security for Jews, thus showing the contrast with McDonnell’s failure to do so.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn
https://twitter.com/abususu/status/1038058449500872710
If the Lib Dems had any sense (which they don't) they'd shove Vince out ASAP and get her in.
https://twitter.com/DailyMail/status/1038070964389662721
NEW THREAD
Members would also control nominations.
I'm very much unconvinced, but it's not quite that crazy.
"German spy chief at odds with Merkel over hounding of migrants in Chemnitz
Michelle Martin, Paul Carrel
BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany’s domestic spy chief expressed scepticism on Friday that migrants had been hounded in Chemnitz after the fatal stabbing of a German man, undermining Chancellor Angela Merkel who has said images from the eastern city “very clearly” showed hate."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-protests/germanys-top-spy-not-convinced-migrants-were-hunted-down-in-chemnitz-idUSKCN1LN0VP