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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Excellent news - for the Marxist turned Tory who couldn't get a job in the State sector because she wasn't the right sort of staff room political opinion.

    RT @margotjamesmp: Very pleased to hear Katherine Birbalsingh has approval to open a free school in Brent, good news for children from deprived parts of Brent
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Who first used the phrase 'flat cap' reshuffle? First I can see was early hours of this morning.

    Plato - but she meant to write "cat flap"

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''If planning on bringing more Northern voices into Govt - try not to patronisingly refer to it as a 'flat cap' reshuffle.''

    Of course, you have no evidence that any tory politicians has ever referred to it as that.

    Doesn;t stop you posting it countless times though.

    To me, it sounds like something a metro Islington Guardian pundit would dream up.
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    Well, the first/earliest use I've found is "so-called 'flat cap' reshuffle" in a Mail piece, then the same jornalist criticising the Tories for using the phrase. So either he got it from someone close to the reshuffle, in which case I can't complain, or he's causing mischief.

    "So-called" is quite a telling use of words.
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    The Conservatives need a much more sophisticated message than "vote UKIP, get Miliband". They must recognise that a sizeable proportion of UKIP's current "support" comprises people who are at best frustrated, but more often somewhere between intensely annoyed and outright hostile to the three main parties. These people feel that the main parties have taken them for granted for years, they are sceptical that any of the main parties have their interests at heart and they will rile against a lazy assumption that they will "hold their nose" and vote Conservative when push comes to shove. Polly's "hold your nose" prescription for 2001/2005 Labour voters was roundly ignored in 2010, and a similar entreaty towards the 2010 Conservative voters will be given similarly short shrift. I don't expect UKIP to poll much above 6% in the next GE, but I think a large proportion of their present supporters will simply not vote, rather than endorse another party.

    The Conservatives need to find a new way to engage with the UKIP tendency that involves treating them like grown ups, avoiding the "R" word, actually listening to their concerns and explaining to people how they are addressing them. If "vote UKIP, get Miliband" is actually CCHQ strategy rather than the lazy assumptions of online cheerleaders, Cameron has a serious problem.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Who first used the phrase 'flat cap' reshuffle? First I can see was early hours of this morning.

    Plato - but she meant to write "cat flap"

    Ha!
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Well, the first/earliest use I've found is "so-called 'flat cap' reshuffle" in a Mail piece, then the same jornalist criticising the Tories for using the phrase. So either he got it from someone close to the reshuffle, in which case I can't complain, or he's causing mischief.

    "So-called" is quite a telling use of words.

    Yeah, I came to the same conclusion: first wave of tweets mentioning it all link to the DM story on Randall's resignation published about 3.20am. It's plausible that the journalist just coined the phrase but seems rather more likely to have been "party sources" as that's how the resignation story would have arrived at the Mail. Probably careless phrasing by someone not particularly senior who either didn't intend it for publication or didn't think about how it sounded.

    Nice as the conspiracy theory is (that Labour somehow managed to plant it in the Mail, what with all their good relations at the minute) it doesn't look the most likely.
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    FF42FF42 Posts: 114
    My view is that UKIP will do better away from the main battlegrounds where the CON and LAB campaigns will be far less intensive.

    The UKIP vote will undoubtedly be squeezed in Tory marginals. Unfortunately for the Conservatives in marginals, by definition you only need a small percentage of UKIP votes to tip the balance. The important figure is the percentage of voters in Conservative marginals who will go for UKIP come what may. Say that figure is 5% ( half the median overall polling figure) - that means any Conservative MP is vulnerable if he sits on a less than a 5% margin. That accounts for 40 MPs and accumulates with the Lib to Labour vote trend.
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    FF42FF42 Posts: 114
    --- My view is that UKIP will do better away from the main battlegrounds where the CON and LAB campaigns will be far less intensive. ---

    The UKIP vote will undoubtedly be squeezed in Tory marginals. Unfortunately for the Conservatives in marginals, by definition you only need a small percentage of UKIP votes to tip the balance. The important figure is the percentage of voters in Conservative marginals who will go for UKIP come what may. Say that figure is 5% ( half the median overall polling figure) - that means any Conservative MP is vulnerable if he sits on a less than a 5% margin. That accounts for 40 MPs and accumulates with the Lib to Labour vote trend.
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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    tim said:


    The Tories winning the popular vote and being booted out would be a fitting end to Camerons career, losing the boundary changes, decimating the Tory membership and splitting the right, magnificent

    The Tories have certainly played a very poor strategic game since 2010. When the coalition was formed not a few people on the Labour side were afraid that the Tories would effectively take over the Lib Dems, as they did with the National Liberals in the 1930s. It was quite easy to imagine the Tories agreeing not to stand against Lib Dems in Scotland and a few seats in England, in return for which the Lib Dems would drop out in crucial Tory-Labour marginals. Probably a few Lib Dems (Cable & Co) would have split off and either joined Labour or tried to set up another grouping but the bulk of what remains of the Lib Dem MPs and membership would have gone along with such a pact as the best way to safeguard their seats. The Tories should have seen this as a golden opportunity to put the "nasty party" finally behind them and recreate a presence in Scotland and the North and again become a truly national party. If they had also got the boundary changes we would now be looking at a Tory-Lib Dem hegemony for the next decade or two.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Correction , Populus have put in an extra table into their detailed results , the actual final figures appear to be 40/33/10/10
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Polruan said:

    Well, the first/earliest use I've found is "so-called 'flat cap' reshuffle" in a Mail piece, then the same jornalist criticising the Tories for using the phrase. So either he got it from someone close to the reshuffle, in which case I can't complain, or he's causing mischief.

    "So-called" is quite a telling use of words.

    Yeah, I came to the same conclusion: first wave of tweets mentioning it all link to the DM story on Randall's resignation published about 3.20am. It's plausible that the journalist just coined the phrase but seems rather more likely to have been "party sources" as that's how the resignation story would have arrived at the Mail. Probably careless phrasing by someone not particularly senior who either didn't intend it for publication or didn't think about how it sounded.

    Nice as the conspiracy theory is (that Labour somehow managed to plant it in the Mail, what with all their good relations at the minute) it doesn't look the most likely.
    Most likely the former explanation, but expect it to be repeated ad nauseam by the usual suspects across the web.

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    Polruan said:

    Well, the first/earliest use I've found is "so-called 'flat cap' reshuffle" in a Mail piece, then the same jornalist criticising the Tories for using the phrase. So either he got it from someone close to the reshuffle, in which case I can't complain, or he's causing mischief.

    "So-called" is quite a telling use of words.

    Yeah, I came to the same conclusion: first wave of tweets mentioning it all link to the DM story on Randall's resignation published about 3.20am. It's plausible that the journalist just coined the phrase but seems rather more likely to have been "party sources" as that's how the resignation story would have arrived at the Mail. Probably careless phrasing by someone not particularly senior who either didn't intend it for publication or didn't think about how it sounded.

    Nice as the conspiracy theory is (that Labour somehow managed to plant it in the Mail, what with all their good relations at the minute) it doesn't look the most likely.
    I think the "journalist causing mischief" angle is not, in itself, unlikely.

    But broadly, yes, someone used it unthinkingly and away we go ...
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Mark

    Solid poll for Labour.
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    WRT populus poll, the last 3 from the company were ...

    Populus/ 2013-09-22 33 39 14 -6
    Populus/ 2013-09-19 33 39 11 -6
    Populus/ 2013-09-15 33 40 11 -7

    taken directly from UK polling report.

    <<<the actual final figures appear to be 40/33/10/10>>>

    would appear to be very much in the realm of "nothing changed". Solid, then I guess>
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    There was a degree of hesitation about the Tories last week. For some reason, they were not sure how to respond to Labour. They don't appear to know where they really want to go next.

    At best it seems that their offer for 2015 is "more of the same". It's the sort of strategy you employ when you have a comfortable lead and a 100+ majority.

    If the Tories stand still or slip back just a touch they will have failed. The Tories need to make progress and come up with a vision that will win them seats like Eastleigh. It just isn't there at the moment. It's all a bit beige.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    OT I was chatting to my Tesco home delivery lady this morning and we discussed books in the 3 mins she was here and she liked stuff similar to yours - so I recommended you. I think that's a staff discounted paperback worth 1p to you there :^ )
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    So there's a new Comptroller of HM Household and he's the LD chief whip.

    This reshuffle is setting everyone on fire I see.
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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    SeanT said:

    tim said:


    The Tories winning the popular vote and being booted out would be a fitting end to Camerons career, losing the boundary changes, decimating the Tory membership and splitting the right, magnificent

    The Tories have certainly played a very poor strategic game since 2010. When the coalition was formed not a few people on the Labour side were afraid that the Tories would effectively take over the Lib Dems, as they did with the National Liberals in the 1930s. It was quite easy to imagine the Tories agreeing not to stand against Lib Dems in Scotland and a few seats in England, in return for which the Lib Dems would drop out in crucial Tory-Labour marginals. Probably a few Lib Dems (Cable & Co) would have split off and either joined Labour or tried to set up another grouping but the bulk of what remains of the Lib Dem MPs and membership would have gone along with such a pact as the best way to safeguard their seats. The Tories should have seen this as a golden opportunity to put the "nasty party" finally behind them and recreate a presence in Scotland and the North and again become a truly national party. If they had also got the boundary changes we would now be looking at a Tory-Lib Dem hegemony for the next decade or two.
    Nah: Europe.

    The EU is a fundamental dividing line between the Tories and the LDs. At some point the Tories would/will have to offer an EU referendum, and the LDs detest this idea (though they lie and pretend they want one when it suits them). A proper, long term alliance between the parties is therefore untenable.
    I agree. The Tories extraordinarily destructive obsession with Europe continues to defy all political logic.
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    WelshJonesWelshJones Posts: 66
    edited October 2013
    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    I agree.

    End 'Greenery' and blame the Champagne socialist (RedEd) for imposing it in the first place and successive LD ministers for continuing with this Canute-esque nonsense, costing us investment, jobs - and making us all poorer.

    Result - permanent cut in domestic energy cost of 10% or so - not unlike ending Darling's mad-house 'fuel price escalator' on road fuels.

    Problem:
    a) EU rules - so make it a central condition of the EU renegotiations
    b) Cameron's 'hug-a-husky' past - so say that we now have new science/data and he's now grown up 'once I thought like a child' (etc) and changed his PoV: a nation contributing <0.2% of annual global CO2 output is not going to change anything - no matter what we do and no matter which group of scientists you believe.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Jonathan said:


    There was a degree of hesitation about the Tories last week. For some reason, they were not sure how to respond to Labour. They don't appear to know where they really want to go next.

    Didnt Osborne pretty much set out where they were going to go in 2015? Try to frame the debate about who you can trust on the economy (will Labour match the fiscal surplus by 2020 aim?) and throw in further welfare reform and other well-tested policies to appeal to various segments of the electorate.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited October 2013
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    There was a degree of hesitation about the Tories last week. For some reason, they were not sure how to respond to Labour. They don't appear to know where they really want to go next.

    At best it seems that their offer for 2015 is "more of the same". It's the sort of strategy you employ when you have a comfortable lead and a 100+ majority.

    If the Tories stand still or slip back just a touch they will have failed. The Tories need to make progress and come up with a vision that will win them seats like Eastleigh. It just isn't there at the moment. It's all a bit beige.

    Disagree. It was the conference of a party in power that has constructed, clumsily, a recovery and has avoided an easy spooking of the markets which would have made any recovery 1,000x more difficult.

    You are right, they are struggling with an adequate and egalitarian response to the cost of living problem (and not quite getting it right) but that is a long way from not knowing there is a problem.

    And wrt "more of the same" if it relates to fiscal responsibility, I, and I suspect millions of others in the UK, would take that right now.
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    R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    Indeed. Though the Tories need to address the cost of living stuff either way. Economic recovery will do them no good electorallly if people aren't feeling it.

    And it's not a left / right issue. People across the spectrum are very grumpy with stuff like rip off energy bills at the moment.

    Btw I owe you thanks for a fantastic tip I read on here the other day. Not betting, but worcester sauce on poached eggs. Where has it been all my life!? Yum.
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    There was a degree of hesitation about the Tories last week. For some reason, they were not sure how to respond to Labour. They don't appear to know where they really want to go next.

    At best it seems that their offer for 2015 is "more of the same". It's the sort of strategy you employ when you have a comfortable lead and a 100+ majority.

    If the Tories stand still or slip back just a touch they will have failed. The Tories need to make progress and come up with a vision that will win them seats like Eastleigh. It just isn't there at the moment. It's all a bit beige.

    What will Ed's line be when the Autumn Statement has tax cuts on energy worth more than the average 18 month price increase, removing costs on consumers that Ed personally put in place?
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    They are all reshuffling at the same time! Booh!!
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2013
    ''If the Tories stand still or slip back just a touch they will have failed.''

    Agreed. Which is why Boris today called for tax relief for regular public transport users, and Osborne plans to use fracking taxes to slash green subsidies.

    Ed was right in his analysis of what the coalition is doing wrong (hence the polls?) but he may have pointed it out a little too early.
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    Richard Benyon out as fisheries minister. He goes back to backbenches
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    SeanT said:

    tim said:


    The Tories winning the popular vote and being booted out would be a fitting end to Camerons career, losing the boundary changes, decimating the Tory membership and splitting the right, magnificent

    The Tories have certainly played a very poor strategic game since 2010. When the coalition was formed not a few people on the Labour side were afraid that the Tories would effectively take over the Lib Dems, as they did with the National Liberals in the 1930s. It was quite easy to imagine the Tories agreeing not to stand against Lib Dems in Scotland and a few seats in England, in return for which the Lib Dems would drop out in crucial Tory-Labour marginals. Probably a few Lib Dems (Cable & Co) would have split off and either joined Labour or tried to set up another grouping but the bulk of what remains of the Lib Dem MPs and membership would have gone along with such a pact as the best way to safeguard their seats. The Tories should have seen this as a golden opportunity to put the "nasty party" finally behind them and recreate a presence in Scotland and the North and again become a truly national party. If they had also got the boundary changes we would now be looking at a Tory-Lib Dem hegemony for the next decade or two.
    Nah: Europe.

    The EU is a fundamental dividing line between the Tories and the LDs. At some point the Tories would/will have to offer an EU referendum, and the LDs detest this idea (though they lie and pretend they want one when it suits them). A proper, long term alliance between the parties is therefore untenable.
    I agree. The Tories extraordinarily destructive obsession with Europe continues to defy all political logic.
    For about the first time that I can remember the Tories seem remarkably united on Europe.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited October 2013
    Don Foster is the new LD Chief Whip. He was at Local Government
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Lib Dems would be unfeasible, as long as the latter remain profoundly europhile.

    I've always found the lib dem position on Europe intriguing, given that polls on here have shown 40% of their voters to be sceptics.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    OT I was chatting to my Tesco home delivery lady this morning and we discussed books in the 3 mins she was here and she liked stuff similar to yours - so I recommended you. I think that's a staff discounted paperback worth 1p to you there :^ )
    May be SeanT can send you a stuffed kitten from his daughter bazaar in return?
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    Maria Eagle moved from Shadow Transport
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Richard Benyon out as fisheries minister. He goes back to backbenches

    He's gone to spend more time with his acres.
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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578



    For about the first time that I can remember the Tories seem remarkably united on Europe.

    Maybe, but my point is that they are obsessed by it. It has become a talismanic issue to them and they are unable to place it in the same context as the voters.

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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    tim said:

    All three party reshuffles under way.

    Tim Reid ‏@TimReidBBC 3m
    Scot Secretary Michael Moore has been sacked in a libDem reshuffle. He is to be replaced by the LibDem chief whip Alistair Carmichael.

    No Jo Swinson?
    I guess Carmichael has a much safer seat

    LD's getting lined up for the expected slaughtering in Scotland.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763



    For about the first time that I can remember the Tories seem remarkably united on Europe.

    Maybe, but my point is that they are obsessed by it. It has become a talismanic issue to them and they are unable to place it in the same context as the voters.

    I think that's maybe an out of date view. Essentially most of the EU obsessed have left the Tories and moved to UKIP. The Tories obsession is not with Europe per se, but getting single issue voters back on board to win an election. I'd suspect most Tories would rather the issue crawled into an ditch and died a lonely death rather than have to deal with it's consequences every 6 months.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Maria Eagle moved from Shadow Transport

    Gives Labour room to oppose HS2.

    A scheme they initially backed for short-term political reasons.

    Labour: willing to support or oppose a particular infrastructure project depending on the way the wind happens to be blowing.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited October 2013
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    OT I was chatting to my Tesco home delivery lady this morning and we discussed books in the 3 mins she was here and she liked stuff similar to yours - so I recommended you. I think that's a staff discounted paperback worth 1p to you there :^ )
    May be SeanT can send you a stuffed kitten from his daughter bazaar in return?
    A stuffed kitten? My mother once had a stuffed cat - it looked like this - I've some very good examples of stuffed animals at my house inc a mountain goat that recently fell off the wall after being scaled by cats chasing a bird...

    http://theitinerants.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a80ae57d970b0134873895d3970c-320wi

    Bad taxidermy is extremely funny - for all the wrong reasons. Just Google "bad taxidermy" and you'll never stop laughing or cringing.
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    maaarsh said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    There was a degree of hesitation about the Tories last week. For some reason, they were not sure how to respond to Labour. They don't appear to know where they really want to go next.

    At best it seems that their offer for 2015 is "more of the same". It's the sort of strategy you employ when you have a comfortable lead and a 100+ majority.

    If the Tories stand still or slip back just a touch they will have failed. The Tories need to make progress and come up with a vision that will win them seats like Eastleigh. It just isn't there at the moment. It's all a bit beige.

    What will Ed's line be when the Autumn Statement has tax cuts on energy worth more than the average 18 month price increase, removing costs on consumers that Ed personally put in place?

    Great point, perfectly put.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    malcolmg said:

    tim said:

    All three party reshuffles under way.

    Tim Reid ‏@TimReidBBC 3m
    Scot Secretary Michael Moore has been sacked in a libDem reshuffle. He is to be replaced by the LibDem chief whip Alistair Carmichael.

    No Jo Swinson?
    I guess Carmichael has a much safer seat

    LD's getting lined up for the expected slaughtering in Scotland.
    Slaughtering the SNP presumably malc :-) cough cough
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    surbiton said:

    Morning all and as a Highlander, I am delighted to learn local MP Alistair Carmichael has been promoted to role of Secretary of State for Scotland. Alistair is a very popular, hard-working local MP and frankly wouldn't lose his seat even if he stood for UKIP or MRLP instead of LibDems.

    On the other hand I wonder if Michael Moore is in fact standing down rather than being sacked so he can spend more time trying to hold on to his seat at #GE2015? I like Michael but would rather see a Tory MP sitting in his place.

    So, 2 out 0f 22 cabinet places goes to the H&I. Fair proportion ?
    Cabinet is supposed to be on merit not on postcode , what a stupid question
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    OT I was chatting to my Tesco home delivery lady this morning and we discussed books in the 3 mins she was here and she liked stuff similar to yours - so I recommended you. I think that's a staff discounted paperback worth 1p to you there :^ )
    May be SeanT can send you a stuffed kitten from his daughter bazaar in return?
    A stuffed kitten? My mother once had a stuffed cat - it looked like this - I've some very good examples of stuffed animals at my house inc a mountain goat that recently fell off the wall after being scaled by cats chasing a bird...

    http://theitinerants.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a80ae57d970b0134873895d3970c-320wi

    Bad taxidermy is extremely funny - for all the wrong reasons. Just Google "bad taxidermy" and you'll never stop laughing or cringing.
    I meant a cuddly toy! Stuffed animals are creepy.

    My Mum just offered me two victorian cabinets (apparently worth a lot to the right people for some weird reason) full of stuffed birds
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Neil said:

    Maria Eagle moved from Shadow Transport

    Gives Labour room to oppose HS2.

    A scheme they initially backed for short-term political reasons.

    Labour: willing to support or oppose a particular infrastructure project depending on the way the wind happens to be blowing.


    How cynical - here is Ed Balls talking about the importance of cross-party unity on large infrastructure projects - surely you believe him?


    "The Olympics showed that Britain can decide on, and then deliver major building projects when there is cross-party consensus and a sense of national purpose. But that isn’t always the case when it comes to big infrastructure projects.

    For decades, successive governments have all too often ducked and delayed the vital decisions we need to take for the long term. That’s why last autumn I asked the man who led the successful delivery of the Olympic venues and infrastructure to come up with a plan to help end this dither and drift."


    http://www.edballs.co.uk/blog/?p=4451
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    Good poll for Labour. Will they sustain their Conference bounce?

    Tories need to address the cost of living stuff, if they can.
    OT I was chatting to my Tesco home delivery lady this morning and we discussed books in the 3 mins she was here and she liked stuff similar to yours - so I recommended you. I think that's a staff discounted paperback worth 1p to you there :^ )
    May be SeanT can send you a stuffed kitten from his daughter bazaar in return?
    A stuffed kitten? My mother once had a stuffed cat - it looked like this - I've some very good examples of stuffed animals at my house inc a mountain goat that recently fell off the wall after being scaled by cats chasing a bird...

    http://theitinerants.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a80ae57d970b0134873895d3970c-320wi

    Bad taxidermy is extremely funny - for all the wrong reasons. Just Google "bad taxidermy" and you'll never stop laughing or cringing.
    I meant a cuddly toy! Stuffed animals are creepy.

    My Mum just offered me two victorian cabinets (apparently worth a lot to the right people for some weird reason) full of stuffed birds
    Berlusconi used to have cabinets full of stuffed birds, but I don't think they were victorian.
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    Esther McVey arrives at Number 10.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    tim said:

    All three party reshuffles under way.

    Tim Reid ‏@TimReidBBC 3m
    Scot Secretary Michael Moore has been sacked in a libDem reshuffle. He is to be replaced by the LibDem chief whip Alistair Carmichael.

    No Jo Swinson?
    I guess Carmichael has a much safer seat

    LD's getting lined up for the expected slaughtering in Scotland.
    Slaughtering the SNP presumably malc :-) cough cough
    LOL, that I will never live to see
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    @tim

    @scoresandscorer cleaned up last week, were you on???
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    tim said:

    @SeanT

    Cameron and the Lib Dems will be on the same side in any EU referendum

    As for the salience of Europe, nobody gives a toss.

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/sept13issuestabs.pdf

    Only 20% of UKIP voters mention it, while 70% of them mention immigration/race

    (of course you can argue that Europe is linked, but immigration still overshadows it and Dave believes in free movement of labour, no matter how many token policies he drags out)

    Not surprised to see you spouting that same stupid 'nobody gives a toss' line as Mike does Tim.

    As always one has to conclude that the public also don't give a toss about Public Services, the Environment, transport, local government and privitisation.

    Is the EU level of concern the dividing line between 'gives a toss' and 'don't give a toss' by the way? Or can we assume that people also don't give a toss about taxation and care for the elderly since they only scored 1 and 2 percent more respectively? Perhaps also people 'don't give a toss' about low pay and the minimum wage since that only scored 3 percent more than the EU?

    You display all the analytical skills of a 4 year old.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    Tim Shipman (Mail) ‏@ShippersUnbound 3m
    Why was Southern millionaire Richard Benyon sacked? Cameron asked if he owned a flat cap and Benyon replied: 'It's tweed.' #flatcapreshuffle




    ie.
    Ignoring the fact that it's Cameron,Osborne and their chums who are central to the problem.

    Good to see you in full-blown toe-rag mode.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    tim said:

    Esther McVey arrives at Number 10.

    To clean the step for Master Cameron?
    Esther McVey, real scouser, beware of Brummie imitations.
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    Greg Hands promoted to Deputy Chief Whip
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Greg Hands (friend of George) new Deputy Chief Whip.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    Tim Shipman (Mail) ‏@ShippersUnbound 3m
    Why was Southern millionaire Richard Benyon sacked? Cameron asked if he owned a flat cap and Benyon replied: 'It's tweed.' #flatcapreshuffle




    ie.
    Ignoring the fact that it's Cameron,Osborne and their chums who are central to the problem.

    Good to see you in full-blown toe-rag mode.
    Caerful southern male, your job as valet may be going to a Northern woman.


    Well, I did say you were Miss O'Brien. Have you had the call yet?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Incidentally, Mr. T, I forget if you were on when I finished reading it, but By Sword And Fire was a very interesting read, and precisely what I was after in terms of getting a good feel for the right level of brutality and mercy in an approximately medieval world, so cheers for that recommendation.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Oh really? I don't find them creepy at all - good examples are really impressive - I've goats, foxes, rabbits, butterflies/moths and others. And a few mounted skulls from explorer's collections.

    Most of mine are vintage bar the mountain goat which I thought was vintage until the chappy delivered him 48hrs later fresh from his German farm.

    My mum's experience trying to get her cat stuffed cured me of any desire to preserve a loved housemate. He was called Pretty Paws = White Turkish Angora and came back looking like the one I posted. We were all appalled but still laughed.
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    SeanT said:

    Today's Populus Lab 40 Con 32 LD 11 UKIP 9

    May be SeanT can send you a stuffed kitten from his daughter bazaar in return?
    A stuffed kitten? My mother once had a stuffed cat - it looked like this - I've some very good examples of stuffed animals at my house inc a mountain goat that recently fell off the wall after being scaled by cats chasing a bird...

    http://theitinerants.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a80ae57d970b0134873895d3970c-320wi

    Bad taxidermy is extremely funny - for all the wrong reasons. Just Google "bad taxidermy" and you'll never stop laughing or cringing.
    I meant a cuddly toy! Stuffed animals are creepy.

    My Mum just offered me two victorian cabinets (apparently worth a lot to the right people for some weird reason) full of stuffed birds
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2013
    ''Central core of senior fops remains, wealthy southern males expected to lay down their careers so Dave can make below stairs more female and Northern.''

    Good to see after Ed's breast beating, that backgrounds are now off limits in discourse on pb.

    Congrats to tim for taking a lead and concentrating on the policies....
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    Hang on: I thought it was the 2010 LibDem now-Labour voters who would decide the next GE? Now we're told it's the UKIP voters.

    Make your mind up Mike.

    Or is the truth that it's neither, or rather that both are true but not the whole truth?
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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578



    For about the first time that I can remember the Tories seem remarkably united on Europe.

    Maybe, but my point is that they are obsessed by it. It has become a talismanic issue to them and they are unable to place it in the same context as the voters.

    I think that's maybe an out of date view. Essentially most of the EU obsessed have left the Tories and moved to UKIP. The Tories obsession is not with Europe per se, but getting single issue voters back on board to win an election. I'd suspect most Tories would rather the issue crawled into an ditch and died a lonely death rather than have to deal with it's consequences every 6 months.
    If that were true they would hardly have promised a referendum in four years time and a renegotiation - both of which guarantee to keep it on the agenda ad infinitum, to the boredom and bemusement of most of the electorate.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Hang on: I thought it was the 2010 LibDem now-Labour voters who would decide the next GE? Now we're told it's the UKIP voters.

    Make your mind up Mike.

    Or is the truth that it's neither, or rather that both are true but not the whole truth?

    Both necessary, neither sufficient.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 3m
    Octopus Osborne alert! Former Treasury team member @GregHands becomes Deputy Chief Whip.

    Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 2m
    @BBCJLandale First of many Osbornites to climb greasy pole - who next? @sajidjavid @AmberRuddMP @claire4devizes


    Toxic George still spreading the poison.

    Go on, make a racist comment about Sajid Javid - you know you want to.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    From the BBC ticker (no article yet, just the headline): "Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer says it was "right decision" not to prosecute over claims of gender selection abortions"

    Despite their being strong evidence for it?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763



    For about the first time that I can remember the Tories seem remarkably united on Europe.

    Maybe, but my point is that they are obsessed by it. It has become a talismanic issue to them and they are unable to place it in the same context as the voters.

    I think that's maybe an out of date view. Essentially most of the EU obsessed have left the Tories and moved to UKIP. The Tories obsession is not with Europe per se, but getting single issue voters back on board to win an election. I'd suspect most Tories would rather the issue crawled into an ditch and died a lonely death rather than have to deal with it's consequences every 6 months.
    If that were true they would hardly have promised a referendum in four years time and a renegotiation - both of which guarantee to keep it on the agenda ad infinitum, to the boredom and bemusement of most of the electorate.
    That's simply their attempt to get lost eurosceptics back. Whether it succeeds remains to be seen, Cameron has a credibility issue on the matter.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @JohnO

    Coconut shy ?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I like this Reshuffle by Twitter stuff - its much more open

    UK Prime Minister @Number10gov
    Esther McVey has been appointed as Minister of State (Employment) at @DWPgovuk #reshuffle
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    For about the first time that I can remember the Tories seem remarkably united on Europe.

    Maybe, but my point is that they are obsessed by it. It has become a talismanic issue to them and they are unable to place it in the same context as the voters.

    I think that's maybe an out of date view. Essentially most of the EU obsessed have left the Tories and moved to UKIP. The Tories obsession is not with Europe per se, but getting single issue voters back on board to win an election. I'd suspect most Tories would rather the issue crawled into an ditch and died a lonely death rather than have to deal with it's consequences every 6 months.
    If that were true they would hardly have promised a referendum in four years time and a renegotiation - both of which guarantee to keep it on the agenda ad infinitum, to the boredom and bemusement of most of the electorate.
    Hardly boredom or bemusement considering a large majority of the electorate want the referendum.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    @Alanbrooke Shurely his cabinet had room for several large Italian chests.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 3m
    Octopus Osborne alert! Former Treasury team member @GregHands becomes Deputy Chief Whip.

    Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 2m
    @BBCJLandale First of many Osbornites to climb greasy pole - who next? @sajidjavid @AmberRuddMP @claire4devizes


    Toxic George still spreading the poison.

    Go on, make a racist comment about Sajid Javid - you know you want to.
    So, Toxic Tim's spreading the poison.

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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054

    Let's hope that James Forsyth is correct

    "James Forsyth reports that no Tories will leave the Cabinet today:

    Understand that this reshuffle won’t see any Tory in Cabinet, or who attends Cabinet, leave government. So, Ken Clarke is safe

    You're delighted with the current batch of enlightened Tories in the cabinet are you Mike? I'm convinced many Lib Dems are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Although doubtless they'll be people saying the same of Tories.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 3m
    Octopus Osborne alert! Former Treasury team member @GregHands becomes Deputy Chief Whip.

    Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 2m
    @BBCJLandale First of many Osbornites to climb greasy pole - who next? @sajidjavid @AmberRuddMP @claire4devizes


    Toxic George still spreading the poison.

    Go on, make a racist comment about Sajid Javid - you know you want to.
    Why would I wan't to do that?



    Something along the lines of 'spreading the poison' to use your own ugly phrase?

    Sajid = poison.

    Charming.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    dr_spyn said:

    @Alanbrooke Shurely his cabinet had room for several large Italian chests.

    Banned apparently, Berlusconi just lost too much time fumbling around in their drawers.
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    Esther McEvey is the new employment minister
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    taffys said:

    ''If the Tories stand still or slip back just a touch they will have failed.''

    Agreed. Which is why Boris today called for tax relief for regular public transport users, and Osborne plans to use fracking taxes to slash green subsidies.

    Ed was right in his analysis of what the coalition is doing wrong (hence the polls?) but he may have pointed it out a little too early.

    Can't agree that ReD was right in his analysis of what the coalition was wrong. His analysis was spend more money, the coalition said cut the deficit and still get growth. Red has tapped into concerns about the cost of living. Living will not be affordable until growth continues and coalition tax cuts come into play. Arbitrarily freezing prices won't do the trick in the long term.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290

    From the BBC ticker (no article yet, just the headline): "Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer says it was "right decision" not to prosecute over claims of gender selection abortions"

    Despite their being strong evidence for it?

    Mein Führer: Starmer.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Greg Clark has been appointed as Minister of State (Cities and constitution).

    Moves from the Treasury. Clark is a rather strange, utterly incomprehensible, cove. Hey ho.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Dr. Spyn, I rather like those parodies.
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    Mike Penning is the next one to be promoted. He's in N10 now
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 3m
    Octopus Osborne alert! Former Treasury team member @GregHands becomes Deputy Chief Whip.

    Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 2m
    @BBCJLandale First of many Osbornites to climb greasy pole - who next? @sajidjavid @AmberRuddMP @claire4devizes


    Toxic George still spreading the poison.

    Go on, make a racist comment about Sajid Javid - you know you want to.
    Why would I wan't to do that?



    Something along the lines of 'spreading the poison' to use your own ugly phrase?

    Sajid = poison.

    Charming.
    Osborne's poisonous influence is coursing through your party, everyone knows that.
    Try the sacking of Charles Hendry last time around.

    Probably best not bring up race given some of your fellow PB Tories long history.
    Has there ever existed a git as sad as you? QTWAIN.
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    Mark Prisk is rumoured as out
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited October 2013
    Penning becomes junior minister at Work and Pension. He was at NI
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @DPJHodges: If Mike Penning's going to come out punching on welfare Labour had better watch out.

    < Yup
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited October 2013
    JohnO said:

    Greg Clark has been appointed as Minister of State (Cities and constitution).

    Moves from the Treasury. Clark is a rather strange, utterly incomprehensible, cove. Hey ho.

    Its a strange move because he was previously responsible for Cities, more like he lost his treasury role to allow space for another appointment.

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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Mike Penning is the next one to be promoted. He's in N10 now

    Minister of State at DWP.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited October 2013
    What I love so much is the inconsequential nature of Labour reshuffles in Opposition - we're all talking about the HMG - if EdM doesn't shift EdB - who cares what else he does?
  • Options
    Sajid Javid has been appointed as Financial Secretary to the Treasury
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    Mark Prisk is rumoured as out

    most of these hangers on are completely unknown, did he ever do or say anything. Replacing donkeys with more donkeys
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Understandibly, Minister of State changes being announced first. Interesting part will be who from the 2010 intake become PUSSies. Perhaps Plato can help us with images.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    From the BBC ticker (no article yet, just the headline): "Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer says it was "right decision" not to prosecute over claims of gender selection abortions"

    Despite their being strong evidence for it?

    There's never any point in reading media reports of legal cases, because they're always total shite. Read the CPS's explanation here:
    http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2013/10/statement-from-director-of-public-prosecutions-on-abortion-related-cases.html

    So to paraphrase, it seems like this journalist showed up at a doctor's and said she'd had a test that showed her child was a girl. The doctor's defence, which nobody disproved, was that since there was no actual test in existence that could have established that at this point, the doctor figured the woman must be stark raving bonkers off her nut, and it turns out that "mother being as mad as a box of frogs" is a legitimate reason to think that the pregnancy will cause problems that justify an abortion.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 3m
    Octopus Osborne alert! Former Treasury team member @GregHands becomes Deputy Chief Whip.

    Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 2m
    @BBCJLandale First of many Osbornites to climb greasy pole - who next? @sajidjavid @AmberRuddMP @claire4devizes


    Toxic George still spreading the poison.

    Go on, make a racist comment about Sajid Javid - you know you want to.
    Why would I wan't to do that?



    Something along the lines of 'spreading the poison' to use your own ugly phrase?

    Sajid = poison.

    Charming.
    everyone knows that.

    Link ? Evidence ?

    Desperate stuff today tim - you need some new lines.

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    malcolmg said:

    Mark Prisk is rumoured as out

    most of these hangers on are completely unknown, did he ever do or say anything. Replacing donkeys with more donkeys
    One assumes that you're commenting on a reshuffle of Salmond's McCabinet.

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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited October 2013
    the majority of us here probably don't even recall where some of the HMG promoted ministers were and who they are going to replace...without googling.
    Plato said:

    What I love so much is the inconsequential nature of Labour reshuffles in Opposition - we're all talking about the HMG - if Ed doesn't shift EdM - who cares what else he does?

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Exactly. There are names coming up that if I hadn't tripped across them on Twitter, I'd have no idea who they were. IIRC @Fitalass has as her MP someone who even Mr Fawkes had never heard of until about 3 months ago. That's quite a feat.

    the majority of us here probably don't even know where some of the HMG promoted ministers were and who they are going to replace...without googling.

    Plato said:

    What I love so much is the inconsequential nature of Labour reshuffles in Opposition - we're all talking about the HMG - if Ed doesn't shift EdM - who cares what else he does?

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 3m
    Octopus Osborne alert! Former Treasury team member @GregHands becomes Deputy Chief Whip.

    Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 2m
    @BBCJLandale First of many Osbornites to climb greasy pole - who next? @sajidjavid @AmberRuddMP @claire4devizes


    Toxic George still spreading the poison.

    Go on, make a racist comment about Sajid Javid - you know you want to.
    Why would I wan't to do that?



    Something along the lines of 'spreading the poison' to use your own ugly phrase?

    Sajid = poison.

    Charming.
    Osborne's poisonous influence is coursing through your party, everyone knows that.
    Try the sacking of Charles Hendry last time around.

    Probably best not bring up race given some of your fellow PB Tories long history.
    smearing by association now. What a lovely man you are.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    They used to have Lembit Opik, the esteemed Estonian!
    Plato said:

    Love this

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 1m
    Joke in Westminster is this is a minorities reshuffle: "ethnic Tory MPs, women Tory MPs, northern Tory MPs...and fans of George Osborne"

    If only the LDs could appoint an ethnic minority MP to a ministerial job.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    They used to have Lembit Opik, the esteemed Estonian!

    Plato said:

    Love this

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 1m
    Joke in Westminster is this is a minorities reshuffle: "ethnic Tory MPs, women Tory MPs, northern Tory MPs...and fans of George Osborne"

    If only the LDs could appoint an ethnic minority MP to a ministerial job.
    I'm just glad he never touched my bum...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Quau1l9JuY
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Tokyo, cheers for posting that explanation.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    Mark Prisk is rumoured as out

    most of these hangers on are completely unknown, did he ever do or say anything. Replacing donkeys with more donkeys
    One assumes that you're commenting on a reshuffle of Salmond's McCabinet.

    One is extremely stupid or not all there then.
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    Reeves is in EdM's office.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    I hope Mark Hoban (until today Minister of State at DWP) is found another job. He's good news.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Mr. Tokyo, cheers for posting that explanation.

    My pleasure - I got the link to the original document via @ JackofKent - he's really good at finding the actual court documents and things that tell you what's going on.
This discussion has been closed.