Anna Soubry appears to be calling for the Conservatives to strictly police potential members to keep the party to her taste... sounds like what she would consider a horrifically oppressive immigration policy
I dont agree with Anna too often but it is essential to ensure conservatives are joining and not Ukippers. They have their own party
Really? Aren't the two MP's who defected to UKIP now Conservatives? I would guess that a lot of UKIP members, or ex UKIP members, once belonged to the Conservative party. Are you saying they aren't welcome back?
If they are from the Farage wing absolutely not
What about never been UKIP members, are they welcome?
Nobel Committee say Aungi San Suu Kyi cannot be stripped of her nobel peace prize
You could not make that up
I don't think its ever been done. And she earned it when she got it however disgracefully she is behaving now. She really needs to be indicted. She is, after all, the democratically elected leader of the country responsible for the genocide.
Well there is also the Kissinger precedent - and they wouldn't even let him return it voluntarily.
Didn't know he tried. Was that not the award which Tom Lehrer said rendered political satire obsolete?
Did he offer to return it by means of a B52 at 5k feet? I could understand why they declined if that was case.
Anna Soubry appears to be calling for the Conservatives to strictly police potential members to keep the party to her taste... sounds like what she would consider a horrifically oppressive immigration policy
I dont agree with Anna too often but it is essential to ensure conservatives are joining and not Ukippers. They have their own party
Really? Aren't the two MP's who defected to UKIP now Conservatives? I would guess that a lot of UKIP members, or ex UKIP members, once belonged to the Conservative party. Are you saying they aren't welcome back?
If they are from the Farage wing absolutely not
What about never been UKIP members, are they welcome?
Yes
That's all right then. I joined a couple of months ago.
Hard to argue with David Lidington on this, not least because Chequers is the only proposal anyone has made. That in turn is largely because the EU hasn't engaged. So, if they want to avoid chaos, and also if they want our dosh, what choice do they have but to agree something based on Chequers?
It's a smokescreen. The Withdrawal Agreement has almost nothing to do with the EU's position on the future relationship.
Of course it does. Quite apart from the political reality, which makes it inconceivable that we would pay anything without outline agreement on the future relationship, and the Irish border issue, which is impossible to even begin discussing without knowing what regulatory regimes the border is supposed to demarcate, there is the plain text of Article 50.
The plain text of Article 50 says that arrangements for withdrawal should take account of the framework for the future relationship. That framework based on Theresa May's red lines simply means outside the single market, customs union and jurisdiction of the EU's legal structures.
Fair enough, if that's the EU's position then they should agree an orderly transition to it, figure out for themselves what they want to do about the Irish border as a result of their position, figure out for themselves how they are going to deal with the security issues that that would create, put in place customs facilities at Calais and other ports, and figure out how they are going to plug their budget hole.
Since they don't appear to have even started thinking about any of these issues, let alone doing any preparatory work, my prediction is that they will be forced to accept something closely based on the only game in town, which (for all its faults and inconsistencies) is Chequers.
The Dutch have already hired 1000 new customs officials to handle post-Brexit checks. The lack of realism about the situation is only on the UK side.
Anna Soubry appears to be calling for the Conservatives to strictly police potential members to keep the party to her taste... sounds like what she would consider a horrifically oppressive immigration policy
I dont agree with Anna too often but it is essential to ensure conservatives are joining and not Ukippers. They have their own party
Really? Aren't the two MP's who defected to UKIP now Conservatives? I would guess that a lot of UKIP members, or ex UKIP members, once belonged to the Conservative party. Are you saying they aren't welcome back?
If they are from the Farage wing absolutely not
There should be tight controls so as not to let the wrong sort of people in you say?
I think that the only rational conclusion that one can come to about the EU's positioning in what might laughingly be called negotiations is that they really didn't want us to leave and thought that if they made it too hard we would change our mind.
Of course they got and no doubt continue to get lots of encouragement from committed remainers in this country who were happy to sing the praises of the EU for doing nothing, no doubt very skillfully. What has not happened is any real engagement about what the relationship will be with their largest single export market after departure. It's really quite surreal.
There was a moment after one of May's speeches when they finally came to terms with the idea that we meant it but we have slipped back a long way since then.
I do think the Conservatives are starting to prepare the ground for blaming the EU IF there is no deal and there is some form of disruption/inconvenience. The tendency of the Party to wrap itself in the Union Jack as a way of evading its own accountability is legendary.
As for the EU, I think their position started from "you wanted to leave. It's up to you to tell us how you want the relationship to work once you have left" or, if you prefer, the UK was left to define the terms of disengagement.
The EU were also adamant there was an order in which they wanted to do things and also that no deal would be economically or practically disadvantageous to any EU country (primarily Ireland) and no deal would break or circumvent existing international treaties.
One might argue May's hardest negotiation, the one with the Conservative Party, is behind her and dealing with the EU might be easier. I have always believed that whether the EU wants us to go or not they are not going to make it easy or pleasant and why would they - if we go and some other countries see it's not too bad they might try the same and the project would start to unravel.
Pour Ne Pas Encourager Les Autres would sum up my view of the EU's position (and I repeat that to annoy Dura-Ace, any French teachers and assorted pedants).
Anna Soubry appears to be calling for the Conservatives to strictly police potential members to keep the party to her taste... sounds like what she would consider a horrifically oppressive immigration policy
I dont agree with Anna too often but it is essential to ensure conservatives are joining and not Ukippers. They have their own party
Really? Aren't the two MP's who defected to UKIP now Conservatives? I would guess that a lot of UKIP members, or ex UKIP members, once belonged to the Conservative party. Are you saying they aren't welcome back?
If they are from the Farage wing absolutely not
What about never been UKIP members, are they welcome?
Yes
That's all right then. I joined a couple of months ago.
Nobel Committee say Aungi San Suu Kyi cannot be stripped of her nobel peace prize
You could not make that up
I don't think its ever been done. And she earned it when she got it however disgracefully she is behaving now. She really needs to be indicted. She is, after all, the democratically elected leader of the country responsible for the genocide.
Well there is also the Kissinger precedent - and they wouldn't even let him return it voluntarily.
Didn't know he tried. Was that not the award which Tom Lehrer said rendered political satire obsolete?
Very quietly, reportedly (there is a reference on his Wikipedia entry).
Yes, it was indeed; the world of Agent Orange imbues Poisoning Pigeons in the Park with a rather quaint innocence.
Nobel Committee say Aungi San Suu Kyi cannot be stripped of her nobel peace prize
You could not make that up
I don't think its ever been done. And she earned it when she got it however disgracefully she is behaving now. She really needs to be indicted. She is, after all, the democratically elected leader of the country responsible for the genocide.
Proof that you can be both a victim and an oppressor. Curious - and sad - how someone who showed so much moral courage for much of her life has had this blindspot to atrocities performed by her own side. Why did she not speak out?
Nobel Committee say Aungi San Suu Kyi cannot be stripped of her nobel peace prize
You could not make that up
I don't think its ever been done. And she earned it when she got it however disgracefully she is behaving now. She really needs to be indicted. She is, after all, the democratically elected leader of the country responsible for the genocide.
Proof that you can be both a victim and an oppressor. Curious - and sad - how someone who showed so much moral courage for much of her life has had this blindspot to atrocities performed by her own side. Why did she not speak out?
I think it's the norm for the oppressed to become oppressors, when they get the chance.
Anna Soubry appears to be calling for the Conservatives to strictly police potential members to keep the party to her taste... sounds like what she would consider a horrifically oppressive immigration policy
I dont agree with Anna too often but it is essential to ensure conservatives are joining and not Ukippers. They have their own party
Really? Aren't the two MP's who defected to UKIP now Conservatives? I would guess that a lot of UKIP members, or ex UKIP members, once belonged to the Conservative party. Are you saying they aren't welcome back?
Mark Reckless left UKIP to sit with the Welsh Assembly Conservative grouping, but is not back in the Conservative Party as a member. You'd have heard the expletives from the north-west if that had happened....
I see Amazon Prime has the rights for this year's US Tennis Open.
They are starting to make an impact on Sport.
And it is universally crap.
People are NOT happy.
They’ve woefully underestimated the amount of onsite resource required. Reminds me watching a 1980s Grand Prix when Murray Walker was obviously in a studio in London just commentating on the pictures we were watching with no other information available to him.
Comments
Did he offer to return it by means of a B52 at 5k feet? I could understand why they declined if that was case.
I joined a couple of months ago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/netherlands-customs-hard-brexit-uk-hire-staff-dutch-a8452386.html
Most uncivil of you - one is tempted to refer to pots and kettles...
As for the EU, I think their position started from "you wanted to leave. It's up to you to tell us how you want the relationship to work once you have left" or, if you prefer, the UK was left to define the terms of disengagement.
The EU were also adamant there was an order in which they wanted to do things and also that no deal would be economically or practically disadvantageous to any EU country (primarily Ireland) and no deal would break or circumvent existing international treaties.
One might argue May's hardest negotiation, the one with the Conservative Party, is behind her and dealing with the EU might be easier. I have always believed that whether the EU wants us to go or not they are not going to make it easy or pleasant and why would they - if we go and some other countries see it's not too bad they might try the same and the project would start to unravel.
Pour Ne Pas Encourager Les Autres would sum up my view of the EU's position (and I repeat that to annoy Dura-Ace, any French teachers and assorted pedants).
New Thread
Yes, it was indeed; the world of Agent Orange imbues Poisoning Pigeons in the Park with a rather quaint innocence.
People are NOT happy.