There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
No it wasn't. The wreath he was photographed holding was laid in front of 4 graves of men who were involved in the Munich massacre. Somewhere else in the cemetery there is a plaque with the names of those killed in the air strike. There is no photo of Corbyn holding a wreath in front of that plaque.
He was at a conference where both the Munich terrorists and the victims of the air raid were commemorated. You might also want to acquaint yourself with what else was discussed and said at that conference.
FPT. You might not consider Israel an Apartheid state but many do. All 18 Arab nations including those with a peace agreement with Israel for a start and even the UN as in this report. If being Jewish entitles you to judge anti semitism surely being a minority inhabitant of greater Israel gives you the right to say whether the state you live in is an Apartheid one?
If you refer to the Occupied Territories such a term might be worthwhile. I don't know. I've never been there. Have you? But for Israel proper i.e. excluding the occupied territories - no.
I note you use the term "Greater Israel" to make it look as if the report is talking about Israel and not the Occupied Territories which are not part of Israel.
And as the second paragraph of the report makes clear, its findings were "not cleared or fully backed by U.N. leadership".
Judea and Samaria where the majority of settlements are sited aren't part of Israel?
They are in the Occupied Territories taken following the 1967 war. So not part of Israel proper - no. Doubtless many in Israel think they should be. But they aren't. They are in the disputed lands which, if there is ever a peace settlement, will then be be allocated as per that settlement. The fact of the Israeli settlements is a cause for criticism of Israel since they are seeking to create facts on the ground.
"Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader, but I don't think I was involved...."
Or even (and I apologise in advance) one Herr Hitler ("Some Jews were killed, but I don't think I was involved....").
To be fair, I think you are now starting to go over the top.
Starting to?
Oh here's the voice of reason to shore up JC. Have you recovered for seeing too many Union Jacks yet? It must be awful living in this hell-hole of a country full of naff chavs spoiling your day.
You seem awfully on edge these past few days. Have you considered taking a holiday?
Not at all although I believe several posters yesterday were raising concerns about your state of mind.
There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
I think you will find that is wrong.
There was a discussion between a Jewish supporter of Labour and a speech writer for the Israeli Embassy. The interviewer said 'But it wasn't for the Munich bombers it was for some people killed in an Israeli bombing which had been condemned by the UN'. The spokesman for the Israeli Embassy spoke next and didn't contradict him.
It's not just an academic exercise to find out. Supporting the grotesque event at Munich isinexcusable and should certainly lead to his resignation. Attending a memorial for Palestinians killed in an illegal Israel air strike should not. Having witnessed one myself in Beirut in which 5 completely innocent Lebanese telephone workers were killed I'm well aware of Israel's disregard for the lives of non Israelis.
Thing is, Rog, this is a snapshot of Jezza's activities over the past 40 years. Where was he in the cemetery? Near one set of graves, or another? Who cares, frankly. But this action should be seen in the context of his support for the PLO which was at the time (is it now?) dedicated to pushing Israel into the Sea. The incident in question followed one whereby Israelis were killed by members of the PLO. And no doubt before that there were incidents by both sides, either legitimate or otherwise depending on your sympathies. Going all the way back to the UN vote to create Israel and the immediate subsequent attack by Arab nations on it.
And this is the issue: Jezza's sympathies have always and only been with the side that wanted to exterminate Israel and the Israelis. And you know what? Arab citizens though there are, Israel was and remains a Jewish State.
This is no place to get into where anyone's sympathies lie. The immediate question is whether it's a resigning matter. If people believe he was celebrating the Munich massacre I'm sure he'd be out. From my point of view as a Labour voter I'd welcome it. I don't rate Corbyn and I'd be unlikely to vote for him. But calling Israel for what it is and sympathising with an extremely oppressed people is what the Labour party at its best is all about
That footage does not look like a terrorist incident. The car is too light for mowing down pedestrians, drives past larger groups and does not end up where a bomb might destroy a building. I'd wonder about health or mental health issues. Both could be true if it turns out to be a spur of the moment, lone wolf attack.
I have no idea whether or not it is a terrorist incident. However some say he was travelling at high speed but the video doesn't seem to indicate that but the driver did seem to know where he was going
The latest update says it is an terrorist incident and the suspect is not cooperating. My guess would he agrees he was there but was not really involved.
Judea and Samaria where the majority of settlements are sited aren't part of Israel?
Correct.
The West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and Gaza Strip are considered occupied Palestinian territories by the United Nations, the United States, the International Court of Justice, the European Union.
The Supreme Court of Israel has considered the section of the West Bank which excludes East Jerusalem to be Israeli-occupied territories.
There’s a lot of blue lights around the car in the lead up to the crash, was he being chased already I wonder?
It looks like an ambulance.
They wouldn’t be the first driver to be spooked by an Ambulance with sirens blaring.
The vehicle on his right as he goes around the roundabout is an ambulance, but there’s another van that’s the vehicle immediately behind him as he cuts across into the Parliament entrance, that stops for a few seconds then moves quickly to the location of the crashed car as the video ends.
There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
I think you will find that is wrong.
There was a discussion between a Jewish supporter of Labour and a speech writer for the Israeli Embassy. The interviewer said 'But it wasn't for the Munich bombers it was for some people killed in an Israeli bombing which had been condemned by the UN'. The spokesman for the Israeli Embassy spoke next and didn't contradict him.
It's not just an academic exercise to find out. Supporting the grotesque event at Munich isinexcusable and should certainly lead to his resignation. Attending a memorial for Palestinians killed in an illegal Israel air strike should not. Having witnessed one myself in Beirut in which 5 completely innocent Lebanese telephone workers were killed I'm well aware of Israel's disregard for the lives of non Israelis.
Thing is, Rog, this is a snapshot of Jezza's activities over the past 40 years. Where was he in the cemetery? Near one set of graves, or another? Who cares, frankly. But this action should be seen in the context of his support for the PLO which was at the time (is it now?) dedicated to pushing Israel into the Sea. The incident in question followed one whereby Israelis were killed by members of the PLO. And no doubt before that there were incidents by both sides, either legitimate or otherwise depending on your sympathies. Going all the way back to the UN vote to create Israel and the immediate subsequent attack by Arab nations on it.
And this is the issue: Jezza's sympathies have always and only been with the side that wanted to exterminate Israel and the Israelis. And you know what? Arab citizens though there are, Israel was and remains a Jewish State.
This is no place to get into where anyone's sympathies lie. The immediate question is whether it's a resigning matter. If people believe he was celebrating the Munich massacre I'm sure he'd be out. From my point of view as a Labour voter I'd welcome it. I don't rate Corbyn and I'd be unlikely to vote for him. But calling Israel for what it is and sympathising with an extremely oppressed people is what the Labour party at its best is all about
That footage does not look like a terrorist incident. The car is too light for mowing down pedestrians, drives past larger groups and does not end up where a bomb might destroy a building. I'd wonder about health or mental health issues. Both could be true if it turns out to be a spur of the moment, lone wolf attack.
I have no idea whether or not it is a terrorist incident. However some say he was travelling at high speed but the video doesn't seem to indicate that but the driver did seem to know where he was going
The latest update says it is an terrorist incident and the suspect is not cooperating. My guess would he agrees he was there but was not really involved.
O Jeremy Corbyn - you are now a National joke
"I was there at the time of the EU referendum, but I wasn't involved" has been my favourite so far.....
"Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader, but I don't think I was involved...."
Or even (and I apologise in advance) one Herr Hitler ("Some Jews were killed, but I don't think I was involved....").
To be fair, I think you are now starting to go over the top.
Starting to?
Oh here's the voice of reason to shore up JC. Have you recovered for seeing too many Union Jacks yet? It must be awful living in this hell-hole of a country full of naff chavs spoiling your day.
You seem awfully on edge these past few days. Have you considered taking a holiday?
Not at all although I believe several posters yesterday were raising concerns about your state of mind.
I’m perfectly happy thanks. Why you get so het up by an anonymous person on an Internet forum is slightly worrying. Calm down.
There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
I think you will find that is wrong.
There was a discussion between a Jewish supporter of Labour and a speech writer for the Israeli Embassy. The interviewer said 'But it wasn't for the Munich bombers it was for some people killed in an Israeli bombing which had been condemned by the UN'. The spokesman for the Israeli Embassy spoke next and didn't contradict him.
It's not just an academic exercise to find out. Supporting the grotesque event at Munich isinexcusable and should certainly lead to his resignation. Attending a memorial for Palestinians killed in an illegal Israel air strike should not. Having witnessed one myself in Beirut in which 5 completely innocent Lebanese telephone workers were killed I'm well aware of Israel's disregard for the lives of non Israelis.
Thing is, Rog, this is a snapshot of Jezza's activities over the past 40 years. Where was he in the cemetery? Near one set of graves, or another? Who cares, frankly. But this action should be seen in the context of his support for the PLO which was at the time (is it now?) dedicated to pushing Israel into the Sea. The incident in question followed one whereby Israelis were killed by members of the PLO. And no doubt before that there were incidents by both sides, either legitimate or otherwise depending on your sympathies. Going all the way back to the UN vote to create Israel and the immediate subsequent attack by Arab nations on it.
And this is the issue: Jezza's sympathies have always and only been with the side that wanted to exterminate Israel and the Israelis. And you know what? Arab citizens though there are, Israel was and remains a Jewish State.
This is no place to get into where anyone's sympathies lie. The immediate question is whether it's a resigning matter. If people believe he was celebrating the Munich massacre I'm sure he'd be out. From my point of view as a Labour voter I'd welcome it. I don't rate Corbyn and I'd be unlikely to vote for him. But calling Israel for what it is and sympathising with an extremely oppressed people is what the Labour party at its best is all about
There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
I think you will find that is wrong.
There was a discussion between a Jewish supporter of Labour and a speech writer for the Israeli Embassy. The interviewer said 'But it wasn't for the Munich bombers it was for some people killed in an Israeli bombing which had been condemned by the UN'. The spokesman for the Israeli Embassy spoke next and didn't contradict him.
It's not just an academic exercise to find out. Supporting the grotesque event at Munich isinexcusable and should certainly lead to his resignation. Attending a memorial for Palestinians killed in an illegal Israel air strike should not. Having witnessed one myself in Beirut in which 5 completely innocent Lebanese telephone workers were killed I'm well aware of Israel's disregard for the lives of non Israelis.
Thing is, Rog, this is a snapshot of Jezza's activities over the past 40 years. Where was he in the cemetery? Near one set of graves, or another? Who cares, frankly. But this action should be seen in the context of his support for the PLO which was at the time (is it now?) dedicated to pushing Israel into the Sea. The incident in question followed one whereby Israelis were killed by members of the PLO. And no doubt before that there were incidents by both sides, either legitimate or otherwise depending on your sympathies. Going all the way back to the UN vote to create Israel and the immediate subsequent attack by Arab nations on it.
And this is the issue: Jezza's sympathies have always and only been with the side that wanted to exterminate Israel and the Israelis. And you know what? Arab citizens though there are, Israel was and remains a Jewish State.
This is no place to get into where anyone's sympathies lie. The immediate question is whether it's a resigning matter. If people believe he was celebrating the Munich massacre I'm sure he'd be out. From my point of view as a Labour voter I'd welcome it. I don't rate Corbyn and I'd be unlikely to vote for him. But calling Israel for what it is and sympathising with an extremely oppressed people is what the Labour party at its best is all about
On resigning: Is doesn't matter whether he was celebrating the the Munich massacre, or commemorating its perpetrators. He will not go because in his tiny little mind, he does not think he has done anything wrong.
A sufficient proportion of Labour members appear to agree, because Israel.
That footage does not look like a terrorist incident. The car is too light for mowing down pedestrians, drives past larger groups and does not end up where a bomb might destroy a building. I'd wonder about health or mental health issues. Both could be true if it turns out to be a spur of the moment, lone wolf attack.
I have no idea whether or not it is a terrorist incident. However some say he was travelling at high speed but the video doesn't seem to indicate that but the driver did seem to know where he was going
The latest update says it is an terrorist incident and the suspect is not cooperating. My guess would he agrees he was there but was not really involved.
O Jeremy Corbyn - you are now a National joke
"I was there at the time of the EU referendum, but I wasn't involved" has been my favourite so far.....
Mr. Eagles, here's the full video. Nowhere does Atkinson support racism or racist comments. Indeed, an example he cites (as life imitating art) is one of his own sketches in which he excoriated a policeman (Griff Rhys Jones) for arresting a black man on various trumped up and nonsensical charges.
Taking a couple of lines from a 9 minute speech (if such a small statement can be referred to as a speech) and then putting an out of context comment in is not difficult, but it is not intelligent either.
Atkinson opposes people being arrested for being offensive or insulting, satirising etc.
Edited extra bit: ah, bit weird, link seems to be for 7s in.
That footage does not look like a terrorist incident. The car is too light for mowing down pedestrians, drives past larger groups and does not end up where a bomb might destroy a building. I'd wonder about health or mental health issues. Both could be true if it turns out to be a spur of the moment, lone wolf attack.
I have no idea whether or not it is a terrorist incident. However some say he was travelling at high speed but the video doesn't seem to indicate that but the driver did seem to know where he was going
The latest update says it is an terrorist incident and the suspect is not cooperating. My guess would he agrees he was there but was not really involved.
O Jeremy Corbyn - you are now a National joke
"I was there at the time of the EU referendum, but I wasn't involved" has been my favourite so far.....
Perhaps that's why his own colleagues called him the submarine at the time.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
His own words in the Morning Star should be a reasonable starting point....
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
To be honest a narrative has now been established and the jokes are going to go on and on.
He has been seriously descredited - all by himself and no one else to blame
There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
No it wasn't. The wreath he was photographed holding was laid in front of 4 graves of men who were involved in the Munich massacre. Somewhere else in the cemetery there is a plaque with the names of those killed in the air strike. There is no photo of Corbyn holding a wreath in front of that plaque.
He was at a conference where both the Munich terrorists and the victims of the air raid were commemorated. You might also want to acquaint yourself with what else was discussed and said at that conference.
Roger is much happier repeating Corbyn's lies.
Cyclefree wrote an excellent piece yesterday about how people cling to their views of their "hero". The converse is also true. People cling to their views of their "villain". When the truth is murky and complex, people will believe what they want to believe.
It led to some bizarre comments here yesterday when some contributors were suggesting that Corbyn approved of the murdering of the Israeli athletes, and asked BJH to say whether he did too! That is so batshit crazy (and offensive). Totally delusional but seriously considered by some Corbyn haters.
Corbyn doesn't approve of murdering - no matter who the perpetrator is. He is also totally against extrajudicial executions by national actors including Mossad. I seem to remember he condemned the assassinations of IRA suspects in Gibraltar many years ago but recently confirmed that he agrees with the killing of a terrorist in the act of terror. It might be this distinction that is being missed in all the comments on what went on four years ago and which Corbyn hasn't adequately clarified in his latest interview.
I personally am distrustful of "evidence" provided by the Daily Mail and Morning Star, even if others lap it up as it confirms their prior beliefs.
"Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader, but I don't think I was involved...."
Or even (and I apologise in advance) one Herr Hitler ("Some Jews were killed, but I don't think I was involved....").
To be fair, I think you are now starting to go over the top.
Starting to?
Oh here's the voice of reason to shore up JC. Have you recovered for seeing too many Union Jacks yet? It must be awful living in this hell-hole of a country full of naff chavs spoiling your day.
You seem awfully on edge these past few days. Have you considered taking a holiday?
Not at all although I believe several posters yesterday were raising concerns about your state of mind.
I’m perfectly happy thanks. Why you get so het up by an anonymous person on an Internet forum is slightly worrying. Calm down.
Lol - you're the one who cannot take criticism without throwing your toys out of the pram.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
Corbyn wrote about it at the time for an article.
This article now disagrees with him.
Do you have a link to the article? Is the article written by Corbyn? What does it say?
That looks horrible, sadly there’s going to be numerous casualties.
Driven down that Autostrada
Likewise; it's a really dramatic drive, high above the city and bending this way and that with mountains on one side and the sea on the other. I always wondered what it must be like to live underneath.
How many Munich terrorists are buried in the cemetery where the wreath was laid in 2014? Clue it's less than 1
You seem to be in a very small minority with that opinion. Why do you say that?
Because it's true.
There were zero of the Munich terrorists buried in that cemetery According to latest Skwawlkbox article.
If that's true quite a few on here will have to wind their neck in.
If it's untrue Skwawlkbox need to be called out.
Atef Bseiso is buried in that cemetery in Tunis. Shabti Shavit, the head of Mossad from 1989 to 1996, was convinced that Atef Bseiso was one of the planners of the Munich attack.
I'll take his word over that of Sqwawkbox. Or you.
That looks horrible, sadly there’s going to be numerous casualties.
Driven down that Autostrada
Likewise; it's a really dramatic drive, high above the city and bending this way and that with mountains on one side and the sea on the other. I always wondered what it must be like to live underneath.
On a wider issue Italy has many Autostrada bridges and no doubt concern will be raised over their structural integrity
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
The bridge was over homes, a railway and more - I fear the casualty list will be very large indeed.
Italian ambulance services already saying dozens dead. The Morandi flyover is huge, this sounds very bleak.
Sky News just showed a video of the collapse, apparently a 200m section of the 100m high bridge has gone, fallen onto houses. Sadly it’s going to be dozens dead.
How many Munich terrorists are buried in the cemetery where the wreath was laid in 2014? Clue it's less than 1
You have lost - Corbyn is a national joke and unfit for office
The man "unfit for office" but nevertheless on course to be PM according to today's BMG poll....
Indeed - I'm not confident he'd win a vote of confidence in Parliament from his own MPs let alone the opposition when push comes to shove.
If Boris Johnson wins the next Conservative leadership contest, both main parties might simultaneously be led by men who the majority of their own MPs have no confidence in them.
Mr. Meeks, the Conservative leadership rules make that less likely (although not impossible).
Moderate Labour MPs should split. Maybe they're waiting to see if leadership elections become embuggered first, but I suspect they'll just stay where they are.
Edited extra bit: must be off. Mildly surprised Alonso's announcement hasn't come through yet.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
How many Munich terrorists are buried in the cemetery where the wreath was laid in 2014? Clue it's less than 1
You have lost - Corbyn is a national joke and unfit for office
The man "unfit for office" but nevertheless on course to be PM according to today's BMG poll....
Indeed - I'm not confident he'd win a vote of confidence in Parliament from his own MPs let alone the opposition when push comes to shove.
If Boris Johnson wins the next Conservative leadership contest, both main parties might simultaneously be led by men who the majority of their own MPs have no confidence in them.
The difference being that the Conservatives have an effective method by which the MPs can fire an unwanted leader, without reference to the membership.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
How many Munich terrorists are buried in the cemetery where the wreath was laid in 2014? Clue it's less than 1
You have lost - Corbyn is a national joke and unfit for office
The man "unfit for office" but nevertheless on course to be PM according to today's BMG poll....
Indeed - I'm not confident he'd win a vote of confidence in Parliament from his own MPs let alone the opposition when push comes to shove.
If Boris Johnson wins the next Conservative leadership contest, both main parties might simultaneously be led by men who the majority of their own MPs have no confidence in them.
The difference being that the Conservatives have an effective method by which the MPs can fire an unwanted leader, without reference to the membership.
The MPs will have quite a reckoning to face if they get rid of a leader who the members adore.
How many Munich terrorists are buried in the cemetery where the wreath was laid in 2014? Clue it's less than 1
You have lost - Corbyn is a national joke and unfit for office
The man "unfit for office" but nevertheless on course to be PM according to today's BMG poll....
Indeed - I'm not confident he'd win a vote of confidence in Parliament from his own MPs let alone the opposition when push comes to shove.
I think he would absolutely lose a VONC. I'll even go further - I think he'd still lose after a Labour election victory. This may seem outlandish but we've not even reached the fun and games of:
- a conference written manifesto. - membership elected council leaders. - mandatory reselection.
Plus, I reckon the plotting to marginalise and/or oust Tom Watson is almost ready to start. Whether they directly challenge him or create a second deputy post remains to be seen.
That's surprises me, given the CCTV footage etc. Does anyone know what occurred that meant he wasn't guilty?
It seems like there was so much drunken arseholery going on from all sides, it was difficult to ascertain to any degree of certain exactly how much of the assholery was Stokes.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
The photos of Corbyn were taken from that white wall, looking back down the graveyard. The design of the headstones and inscriptions are what makes the location clear.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
FFS you're like a 9/11 truther. The photos are taken from different sources over different years. So maybe the plants grew a bit in between.
It's a much, much, much more plausible explanation than "it's all faked", as you seem to be suggesting.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
Ah, I see. So it seems affray is like a mini riot in that it must be 'to the terror of the people'.
On the graves thing you cannot seriously quote Shitebox as a source. Time after time proven to be clickbait bullshit whose sole purpose appears to be spreading lies to cultists and those open to having their pro-JC view spun to believing whatever the cult want to push.
And it IS a cult. The list of declared enemies gets longer by the day - I was reading a thread on "The Labour Party Forum" facebook group where Lansman is a sellout, the Unions are clearly enemies of socialism and that Jeremy said "I was there" proves what they are saying that he wasn't there.
You mentioned Progress - they are bad. But its built around the idea of actually winning elections, and isn't batshit paranoid crazy like Momentum. I don't describe good friends and comrades as having succumbed to the "Black Sleep of the Kali Ma" but thats what it looks like.
Finally you seem to think that Kinnock Minor being surprised at an exit poll the country was surprised at proves he doesn't want to win. Cobblers. It proves he's a rational human being. There is a plot to destabilise the Labour Party. But it isn't Kinnock. Its the people who say Kinnock and Labour MPs are the enemy. And Labour councillors. Definitely Labour Council Leaders. Labour CLP execs. Labour regional and national officials. And now affiliated trade unions. All the enemy. Say a minority of gobshite entryist trots who 3 years ago were busy campaigning against the party in favour of spinter scab outfits like NHA.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
Ah, I see. So it seems affray is like a mini riot in that it must be 'to the terror of the people'.
To me, his actions seemed pretty much unprovoked, or at the least grossly out of proportion - and the claim he was "sticking up for the gay couple" doesn't seem very credible in light of the CCTV before (why weren't the gay couple called as witnesses, BTW?).
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
FFS you're like a 9/11 truther. The photos are taken from different sources over different years. So maybe the plants grew a bit in between.
It's a much, much, much more plausible explanation than "it's all faked", as you seem to be suggesting.
I said " It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear." I'm not suggesting "it's all faked". I'm just suggesting that it isn't clear. Some people will claim that It's a much, much, much more plausible explanation". I'm agnostic on it. There are agendas and confirmation biases at work on both sides.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
An assault charge would have required a specific complainant to wish to press those charges, whereas the affray is an offence against the public order.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
They didn't find enough evidence to convict of affray - simple as that.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
Ah, I see. So it seems affray is like a mini riot in that it must be 'to the terror of the people'.
To me, his actions seemed pretty much unprovoked, or at the least grossly out of proportion - and the claim he was "sticking up for the gay couple" doesn't seem very credible in light of the CCTV before (why weren't the gay couple called as witnesses, BTW?).
Remember that you haven't seen or heard all of the evidence presented in court. You can't rely on media reports to give the full picture.
And, of course, the jury have to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt. Given that they took 3 hours to reach their verdicts, it seems that they really weren't convinced that the two defendants were guilty of affray.
Everyone seems to have made up their minds on this - are there any unbias sources about on what exactly Corbyn was doing though ? There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
It's not at all clear! Greenery behind Corbyn. White wall behind the graves. Different canopy - look at the construction at the top. It may be the same place. It may not. It certainly isn't quite clear.
Yes as I wrote in response to Rog - it should be seen in the context of 40 yrs of anti-Imperalism hence anti-Israelism (?). What he did or did not do or know in that specific incident in the cemetery is frankly neither here nor there.
I was not expecting that verdict in the Ben Stokes case....
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
And what if the jury disagree amongst themselves why they reached a verdict, but agree that however they all got there they agree on the actual verdict?
And more importantly - wouldn't having to justify a view not open them up to intimidation post verdict?
There's no doubt that if the story was as it appeared yesterday that he'd laid a wreath at the graves of the Munich killers I'm sure he'd be out by now. However that apparently isn't what happened. His wreath was laid at the graves of the victims of Israeli bombers. An event that was condemned by the UN.
No it wasn't. The wreath he was photographed holding was laid in front of 4 graves of men who were involved in the Munich massacre. Somewhere else in the cemetery there is a plaque with the names of those killed in the air strike. There is no photo of Corbyn holding a wreath in front of that plaque.
He was at a conference where both the Munich terrorists and the victims of the air raid were commemorated. You might also want to acquaint yourself with what else was discussed and said at that conference.
FPT. You might not consider Israel an Apartheid state but many do. All 18 Arab nations including those with a peace agreement with Israel for a start and even the UN as in this report. If being Jewish entitles you to judge anti semitism surely being a minority inhabitant of greater Israel gives you the right to say whether the state you live in is an Apartheid one?
If you refer to the Occupied Territories such a term might be worthwhile. I don't know. I've never been there. Have you? But for Israel proper i.e. excluding the occupied territories - no.
I note you use the term "Greater Israel" to make it look as if the report is talking about Israel and not the Occupied Territories which are not part of Israel.
And as the second paragraph of the report makes clear, its findings were "not cleared or fully backed by U.N. leadership".
Judea and Samaria where the majority of settlements are sited aren't part of Israel?
They are in the Occupied Territories taken following the 1967 war. So not part of Israel proper - no. Doubtless many in Israel think they should be. But they aren't. They are in the disputed lands which, if there is ever a peace settlement, will then be be allocated as per that settlement. The fact of the Israeli settlements is a cause for criticism of Israel since they are seeking to create facts on the ground.
So do these Jewish residents of the occupied territories have the vote?
Just because Stokes has been found not guilty doesn't mean he isn't coming out of all this looking like a grade A arsehole. That's outwith the remit of the court to decide, of course.
The bridge was over homes, a railway and more - I fear the casualty list will be very large indeed.
Italian ambulance services already saying dozens dead. The Morandi flyover is huge, this sounds very bleak.
Sky News just showed a video of the collapse, apparently a 200m section of the 100m high bridge has gone, fallen onto houses. Sadly it’s going to be dozens dead.
Sadly so. Looking at the map it's on the motorway that comes down into the city from the mountains, and not the coastal one as I originally thought; the descent into Genoa along that motorway is also a dramatic drive. As someone said downthread, there is going to be a lot of checking and testing of Italian Autostrade now, given how many dramatic stretches of motorway bridges there are in the country,
Comments
The bridge was over homes, a railway and more - I fear the casualty list will be very large indeed.
Judea and Samaria where the majority of settlements are sited aren't part of Israel?
Correct.
The West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and Gaza Strip are considered occupied Palestinian territories by the United Nations, the United States, the International Court of Justice, the European Union.
The Supreme Court of Israel has considered the section of the West Bank which excludes East Jerusalem to be Israeli-occupied territories.
https://twitter.com/beardedgenius/status/1029295116454907904?s=21
That line will haunt him. It's his own, self-inflicted and self-penned "economical with the truth".
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1029078880244654080
Clue it's less than 1
A sufficient proportion of Labour members appear to agree, because Israel.
That one has the advantage of being funny!
Especially when the cover-up is a bare-faced, ram-packed lie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=h3UeUnRxE0E
Taking a couple of lines from a 9 minute speech (if such a small statement can be referred to as a speech) and then putting an out of context comment in is not difficult, but it is not intelligent either.
Atkinson opposes people being arrested for being offensive or insulting, satirising etc.
Edited extra bit: ah, bit weird, link seems to be for 7s in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3UeUnRxE0E
Oh hang on
There are apparently differing facts from people depending on their viewpoint, so I'm reserving judgement till I can be bothered to work out what actually happened.
This article now disagrees with him.
He has been seriously descredited - all by himself and no one else to blame
There were zero of the Munich terrorists buried in that cemetery According to latest Skwawlkbox article.
If that's true quite a few on here will have to wind their neck in.
If it's untrue Skwawlkbox need to be called out.
It led to some bizarre comments here yesterday when some contributors were suggesting that Corbyn approved of the murdering of the Israeli athletes, and asked BJH to say whether he did too! That is so batshit crazy (and offensive). Totally delusional but seriously considered by some Corbyn haters.
Corbyn doesn't approve of murdering - no matter who the perpetrator is. He is also totally against extrajudicial executions by national actors including Mossad. I seem to remember he condemned the assassinations of IRA suspects in Gibraltar many years ago but recently confirmed that he agrees with the killing of a terrorist in the act of terror. It might be this distinction that is being missed in all the comments on what went on four years ago and which Corbyn hasn't adequately clarified in his latest interview.
I personally am distrustful of "evidence" provided by the Daily Mail and Morning Star, even if others lap it up as it confirms their prior beliefs.
nurse.
Classic diversion technique - claim something which hasn't been claimed is false.
Miss Abbott was indeed laid.
I was present when she was laid.
I don't think I was actually involved in it.
I'll take his word over that of Sqwawkbox. Or you.
https://medium.com/@anyabike/corbyns-open-secret-22a70fa03254
What are their new radical alternative ideas.
Relatively short discussion time - whatever that might mean
Moderate Labour MPs should split. Maybe they're waiting to see if leadership elections become embuggered first, but I suspect they'll just stay where they are.
Edited extra bit: must be off. Mildly surprised Alonso's announcement hasn't come through yet.
@Bigjohnowls Can you point me to which facts you believe are incorrect in this article ? https://medium.com/@anyabike/corbyns-open-secret-22a70fa03254
After this week I think I can safely say the Trump of British politics already exists, and his name is Jeremy Corbyn.
A charge of assault might have lead to a conviction - but we will never know
- a conference written manifesto.
- membership elected council leaders.
- mandatory reselection.
Plus, I reckon the plotting to marginalise and/or oust Tom Watson is almost ready to start. Whether they directly challenge him or create a second deputy post remains to be seen.
It's a much, much, much more plausible explanation than "it's all faked", as you seem to be suggesting.
I always wish the jury was made to provide a rationale for their verdicts.
Uh, right.
It is relatively unusual charge and one that was always going to be hard to prove under the circumstances of this particular incident. If the CPS had tried for an assault charge, it might well have been different.
Hard to say whether it is more or less serious.
On the graves thing you cannot seriously quote Shitebox as a source. Time after time proven to be clickbait bullshit whose sole purpose appears to be spreading lies to cultists and those open to having their pro-JC view spun to believing whatever the cult want to push.
And it IS a cult. The list of declared enemies gets longer by the day - I was reading a thread on "The Labour Party Forum" facebook group where Lansman is a sellout, the Unions are clearly enemies of socialism and that Jeremy said "I was there" proves what they are saying that he wasn't there.
You mentioned Progress - they are bad. But its built around the idea of actually winning elections, and isn't batshit paranoid crazy like Momentum. I don't describe good friends and comrades as having succumbed to the "Black Sleep of the Kali Ma" but thats what it looks like.
Finally you seem to think that Kinnock Minor being surprised at an exit poll the country was surprised at proves he doesn't want to win. Cobblers. It proves he's a rational human being. There is a plot to destabilise the Labour Party. But it isn't Kinnock. Its the people who say Kinnock and Labour MPs are the enemy. And Labour councillors. Definitely Labour Council Leaders. Labour CLP execs. Labour regional and national officials. And now affiliated trade unions. All the enemy. Say a minority of gobshite entryist trots who 3 years ago were busy campaigning against the party in favour of spinter scab outfits like NHA.
And, of course, the jury have to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt. Given that they took 3 hours to reach their verdicts, it seems that they really weren't convinced that the two defendants were guilty of affray.
And more importantly - wouldn't having to justify a view not open them up to intimidation post verdict?
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/current-issue
https://twitter.com/farmaciaserrage/status/1029332110606315520