LOL at the different results between YouGov and ICM.
Different methodologies plus different timeframes for the fieldwork
Not really that hard to understand
Not really, it’s not like ICM and YouGov have never produced similar results before. Polls have had different methodologies yet produced similar voting intention.
As for timeframes, it’s only some days difference. Both polls are well into the period in which yet another saga of the antisemitism scandal became news. The only thing that’s happened very recently is the whole Boris Burka row which seems to only be cared about by Westminster commentators. Not that I agree with what Boris said, because there I side with what many centre left commentators are saying.
At least their utter purity will be maintained when they lose in 2020/21 and they can say the last Socialist government was still 1945.
Presumably Blairite magic only works on YouGov and not on ICM then? For their sake, they should be happy most of the general public still don’t know how crazy some of them are.
Apparently the 'Tory Fibs' account is "Dr" Eoin's other account, hence the reason it is on the loopy side. The boy is an absolute roaster.
is it not worth discussing the biggest ideological challenge facing the West since the end of communism?
FPT
1. People can be offended, if they want. It does not follow that they therefore are entitled to ask for whatever offends them to be banned.
2. The right to free speech & free thought are far more important than the right to dress in a particular way.
I agree with 1, but 2 sets up a false choice. There's nothing wrong with saying both that people have a right to dress how they like and other people have a right not to like it. Forms of dress are partly an expresion of opinion, and this comes close to saying that we're all in favour of freedom of speech, so long as we agree with it.
I think Boris was being simultaneously rude and frivolous about a difficult issue, but we shouldn't ban him saying what he thinks, just roll our eyes and ignore his tiresome attention-seeking.
The issue is whether those women, and it is women, not men, who wear these costumes are expressing a right to dress how they would like.
Many are, some are not. Now I may regard their free decision to don what I consider to be oppressive misogynistic clothing as evidence that they have Stockholm syndrome, but they will undoubtably see it differently.
I more often see young women in Niqab than older, and not infrequently much more conservatively dressed than their parents. I think that at least in part this is second and third generation identity confusion, much like Rastafarianism in the Seventies and Eighties. These are often people who feel incompletely British, but also incompletely in touch with the old culture, and in investigating and seeking their true identity adopt a simalcrum of archaism. How genuine this spirituality is, as opposed to political, varies. It also varies whether it is a passing phase or a dissapearance down the rabbit hole.
My own approach is unlike Boris, I do not insult the wearers but rather support them in their education and careers. That is their best hope of escape.
It says something about the modern UK that Boris Johnson gets more grief for criticizing medieval dress than Tulip Siddiq gets for supporting an Islamist government that abducts, tortures and kills democracy protesters.
Generations hence, they will look back and be astonished at how fawning liberals were over Islam.
"A father claims BA subjected him to "humiliation and racist behaviour", triggering calls for Indians to boycott the airline."
Alternatively, they ignored the seat belt requirement because they knew better.
Possibly
But some were sympathetic towards the airline, with one person saying: "I don't feel bad about this at all, we Indians don't respect or value our Indian resources, be it trains or airplanes, this is good learning for us."
Vani M Manokaran said what BA did "was absolutely right", while Khushi said: "Indian parents start howling too when kids start howling - three-year-olds outside India are taught how to behave socially."
Just statistical bobbling, probably. Have to see how the next few go.
Probably. But seems fair enoiugh to me. May’s ‘not very good’ and chances are Corbyn would be worse. It’s a sad commentary on the state of British politics.
Both main parties are off their peaks. Since both seem to include a fair number of supporters whose primary motivation is opposition to the other main party, we can expect this joint trend to continue as such supporters decide they can afford to back a different party given the hated party’s decline.
Is that really activism? I would have thought it standard to keep people while the appeal is going on...
Hah you've got me, probably not - but they do seem to enjoy making decisions against the Trump administration that get turned over when the matter is sent up to SCOTUS.
Both main parties are off their peaks. Since both seem to include a fair number of supporters whose primary motivation is opposition to the other main party, we can expect this joint trend to continue as such supporters decide they can afford to back a different party given the hated party’s decline.
What is the evidence that people voted primarily in opposition to the other main party? Lord Ashcroft found 13% of Tories said their primary reason was the best PM/leadership which could be a proxy for that.
My alternative theory is that right wing people are enthused by Brexit and last time were keen to back Theresa May. And that there are left wing people tired of austerity, worried about the NHS etc. who are keen to back Corbyn and weren't particularly enthused by Miliband.
Is that really activism? I would have thought it standard to keep people while the appeal is going on...
Hah you've got me, probably not - but they do seem to enjoy making decisions against the Trump administration that get turned over when the matter is sent up to SCOTUS.
Yes - although there's not much new about judicial activism in the US, particularly on the left. America's system is so prone to gridlock it's basically the only way to get certain things done.
It must be a long time since the combined share for Con and Lab was as low as 74%.
The key point, as far as the next GE is concerned. The two-party share can only go down, and both of the big parties are doing their best to help it along with some bad behaviour. The question isn't whether Tory or Labour will gain votes, but who will lose the most votes, and to where.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It must be a long time since the combined share for Con and Lab was as low as 74%.
The key point, as far as the next GE is concerned. The two-party share can only go down, and both of the big parties are doing their best to help it along with some bad behaviour. The question isn't whether Tory or Labour will gain votes, but who will lose the most votes, and to where.
It seems to me that apathy is the key enemy for both. For example, a few hundred Labour tribalists outside London staying at home rather than voting for a man who can't seem to bring himself to condemn racism would hand the Tories 50 seats in the Midlands and North without them picking up a single extra voter.
Meanwhile if there is a full No Deal they can themselves kiss goodbye to Hastings, Southampton, Dover, Ramsgate etc. and any chance of regaining Canterbury or Oxford West.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
He would have made an excellent Party Chairman as long as he had a boring technocrat under him doing the actual organising. He could write a manifesto and sell it superbly. That is how he could win a general election.
He is utterly unfit for any sort of executive office. He isn't stupid, but he's lazy, disorganised, and has no common sense at all.
The tragedy is he can't seem to see that and accept the secondary role he's perfect for. As a result he will always be embittered and sniping at those who are more successful than he is.
It's a seat previously held by UKIP - which likely explains the latest result. The LibDems won it in a by-election in 2016, the guy who won having recently died, which suggests that the 2016 result was the exceptional one and probably personal.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It's got sod all to do with racism or Islamophobia. This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It's got sod all to do with racism or Islamophobia. This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It's got sod all to do with racism or Islamophobia. This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
Penny Mordaunt is a Remainer?
No. But she is one of those better placed to Stop Boris.....
They are only single polls, of course, but I wonder if Guido will be as quick to jump on these data points as he was on the immediate post Chequers ones.
Will May return from prostrating herself in front of Macron in order to call a snap election?
Negotiating with other other leaders, whether from a position of strength or not, does not equal prostration. May deserves plenty of stick for her actions, but not for that one.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It's got sod all to do with racism or Islamophobia. This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
Penny Mordaunt is a Remainer?
Interesting choice. What about the other performing sealions? Greive Sourbury May Lewis etc etc
Curious one. IIRC the lds were winning a lor of Cornwall by elections pre May 2017, and had hopes of possibly winning outright there, but with the good locals there the Tories became more dominant.
When the Tories start competitively virtue-signalling, you know the world is changing. Or else Tory MPs dislike Boris and can't stop themselves.
It's more difficult for Labour; refusing the adopt the international system for antisemitism looks like a guilty conscience for things said in the past.
Both should be easily dealt with, but things aren't always what they seem.
I expect this mid-summer madness will pass and we'll revert to juvenile name-calling by both parties.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
He would have made an excellent Party Chairman as long as he had a boring technocrat under him doing the actual organising. He could write a manifesto and sell it superbly. That is how he could win a general election.
He is utterly unfit for any sort of executive office. He isn't stupid, but he's lazy, disorganised, and has no common sense at all.
The tragedy is he can't seem to see that and accept the secondary role he's perfect for. As a result he will always be embittered and sniping at those who are more successful than he is.
Yep, spot on; his ambition exceeds both his ability and his self awareness. As someone said here yesterday, he is the child who was never told that merely wanting something doesn't get it.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It's got sod all to do with racism or Islamophobia. This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
It can be both, but I do think it more to do with because he is Boris. And I don't think him being the most prominent leaver is the sole factor, as plenty of Leavers don't like Boris on here for instance.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
It's got sod all to do with racism or Islamophobia. This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
No.
This is a PCP attack on Boris because they want to make it clear to everyone including him that they consider him unfit to be leader.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
He would have made an excellent Party Chairman as long as he had a boring technocrat under him doing the actual organising. He could write a manifesto and sell it superbly. That is how he could win a general election.
He is utterly unfit for any sort of executive office. He isn't stupid, but he's lazy, disorganised, and has no common sense at all.
The tragedy is he can't seem to see that and accept the secondary role he's perfect for. As a result he will always be embittered and sniping at those who are more successful than he is.
True enough. Even compared to most politicians his ambitions are obvious, hes not good at pretending his actions are motivated by something else, and he comes with a host of problems.
If done form of the Chequers deal is made and agreed, neither being certain by any means, I am sure the next Tory leader will be either a hard leaver or a convert more leavery than most leavers to compensate. There have to be non Boris options who lack his flaws, even of they lack his merits? They woukd have years to grow in the role.
Iain Dale on Boris, just out: Sky had a poll which showed that 58 per cent of younger voters thought Boris should apologise, while 57 per cent of older voters did not. Given the age profile of the Tory membership, Boris’s remarks will have gone down well with many of them. However, apart from Nadine Dorries I have yet to hear a single Tory MP support Boris on the record. In terms of getting more support from the Parliamentary Party, I don’t think the last few days have done Boris any good at all. I still remain of the view that he will find it difficult to get into the final two, but it depends on the circumstances and political atmosphere at the time. It’s all very well being attracted by Boris’s undoubted stardust, but the questions surrounding his judgement will persist.
With the overnight polling the chance of May leading the Tories into the next general election must have increased anyway. Why have a leadership election and replace her when all the alternatives bar Boris poll worse than May against Corbyn and Boris is too controversial for much of the party?
May seems to be doing a Merkel and losing votes to her right to UKIP as Merkel has lost them to the AfD but making up for it by winning centrist Labour voters as Merkel has won centrist SPD voters
In many towns and cities the last of the large, slightly old fashioned general department stores are run by HoF. The HoF store in Dundee High Street closed 20+ years ago. It is still not fully reoccupied.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
At least their utter purity will be maintained when they lose in 2020/21 and they can say the last Socialist government was still 1945.
Presumably Blairite magic only works on YouGov and not on ICM then? For their sake, they should be happy most of the general public still don’t know how crazy some of them are.
Like most party supporters, they'll be converted to the glories of polling if it shows big leads for their side. Curious.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
Over 60% of Labour voters voted Remain but a majority of Labour seats voted Leave and it is working class Leave voting marginals where the Tories are Labour's opponents Corbyn needs to become PM under FPTP, safe inner city and university town Labour Remain seats which had huge Remain leads will vote for him regardless even if a few move to the LDs they will not go Tory
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
I know Corbyn has not backed it before, but I think he will. Either hell be swayed by such pressure supporters, and it means labour does not need to pick an option , but it wrongfoot the tories and pleases his base.
It's like his u turn on appearing in a tv debate if May wasn't coming. Very smart move, and no one cared that he had opposed doing so once he did it. Same here. Diehard remainers won't care he opposed it if he backs it later, his core cult won't care, and labour leavers might grumble but still get to vote leave.
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
In many towns and cities the last of the large, slightly old fashioned general department stores are run by HoF. The HoF store in Dundee High Street closed 20+ years ago. It is still not fully reoccupied.
You have to be very good to survive and exceptional to prosper as a general goods store. House of Fraser is/was neither. In Nottingham for example in the same tired Intu one has both HoF and JL. The differences were stark.
People had the same nostalgia about Woolworths. Nostalgia is the key word though.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
Over 60% of Labour voters voted Remain but a majority of Labour seats voted Leave and it is working class Leave voting marginals where the Tories are Labour's opponents Corbyn needs to become PM under FPTP, safe inner city and university town Labour Remain seats which had huge Remain leads will vote for him regardless even if a few move to the LDs they will not go Tory
Has it never occurred to you that a lot of the Leave voters in such seats already support the Tories or UKIP or, indeed, are people who tend not to vote at all in ordinary elections?
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
Leicester’s was tired, tatty and in the wrong place. The shopping heart of the city moved and Fenwick’s was on the periphery. JL in Leicester is performing very well.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
I know Corbyn has not backed it before, but I think he will. Either hell be swayed by such pressure supporters, and it means labour does not need to pick an option , but it wrongfoot the tories and pleases his base.
It's like his u turn on appearing in a tv debate if May wasn't coming. Very smart move, and no one cared that he had opposed doing so once he did it. Same here. Diehard remainers won't care he opposed it if he backs it later, his core cult won't care, and labour leavers might grumble but still get to vote leave.
The moment when Labour swings fully behind the People's Vote will be key, and I hope their timing is good. With a few Tory rebels there is then a parliamentary majority for it, and they need to work out how best to bring this to bear.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
I know Corbyn has not backed it before, but I think he will. Either hell be swayed by such pressure supporters, and it means labour does not need to pick an option , but it wrongfoot the tories and pleases his base.
It's like his u turn on appearing in a tv debate if May wasn't coming. Very smart move, and no one cared that he had opposed doing so once he did it. Same here. Diehard remainers won't care he opposed it if he backs it later, his core cult won't care, and labour leavers might grumble but still get to vote leave.
The #peoplesvote will get a lot of constituency and grassroots support at conference, and Jezza really isn't that bothered over Europe.
In many towns and cities the last of the large, slightly old fashioned general department stores are run by HoF. The HoF store in Dundee High Street closed 20+ years ago. It is still not fully reoccupied.
You have to be very good to survive and exceptional to prosper as a general goods store. House of Fraser is/was neither. In Nottingham for example in the same tired Intu one has both. The differences were stark.
People had the same nostalgia about Woolworths. Nostalgia is the key word though.
I think latterly they lived on the pop up franchise/concessions within them which didn't do a lot to disperse the general perception of chaos and disorganisation. Way more than half their staff were working on concessions.
It can be done, Debenhams seem to do it quite well, but they tend to have purpose built modern accommodation as opposed to these old behemoths from the last century or even the one before. What will we do with these buildings? It can really bring the whole street down.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
I know Corbyn has not backed it before, but I think he will. Either hell be swayed by such pressure supporters, and it means labour does not need to pick an option , but it wrongfoot the tories and pleases his base.
It's like his u turn on appearing in a tv debate if May wasn't coming. Very smart move, and no one cared that he had opposed doing so once he did it. Same here. Diehard remainers won't care he opposed it if he backs it later, his core cult won't care, and labour leavers might grumble but still get to vote leave.
The moment when Labour swings fully behind the People's Vote will be key, and I hope their timing is good. With a few Tory rebels there is then a parliamentary majority for it, and they need to work out how best to bring this to bear.
It will NEVER happen under Corbyn.
Corbyn is not going to risk losing Leave voters to the Tories or UKIP and see his PM hopes go with them to appease a few upper middle class Remainers led by the likes of Umunna who hates Corbyn anyway.
As Corbyn advisers made clear in the Sunday Times recently they do not give a toss about trying to reverse Brexit or stay in the single market they care about getting Corbyn into No 10 and for that they need working class Leave votes
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
Leicester’s was tired, tatty and in the wrong place. The shopping heart of the city moved and Fenwick’s was on the periphery. JL in Leicester is performing very well.
Leicesters HoF was too close to JL! I do miss Fenwicks though, as it used to cover ranges not sold elsewhere.
I think this is going to be a tough winter for High St retail. We really do need to level the playing field in terms of tax with the internet.
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
Over 60% of Labour voters voted Remain but a majority of Labour seats voted Leave and it is working class Leave voting marginals where the Tories are Labour's opponents Corbyn needs to become PM under FPTP, safe inner city and university town Labour Remain seats which had huge Remain leads will vote for him regardless even if a few move to the LDs they will not go Tory
Has it never occurred to you that a lot of the Leave voters in such seats already support the Tories or UKIP or, indeed, are people who tend not to vote at all in ordinary elections?
It only needs a handful of Labour Leave voters in a marginal Labour Leave seat won by say 500 votes to move to UKIP or the Tories for the Tories to win.
That is not an issue in an inner city Remain seat with a 20 000 Labour majority
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
Pity as they do the best teas in Oxford Street and you cannot get that in an Amazon warehouse
I haven't been in one for years, and Leicesters HoF closed last year. I cannot see a future for department stores. Even John Lewis has faltered recently.
Leicester’s was tired, tatty and in the wrong place. The shopping heart of the city moved and Fenwick’s was on the periphery. JL in Leicester is performing very well.
Leicesters HoF was too close to JL! I do miss Fenwicks though, as it used to cover ranges not sold elsewhere.
I think this is going to be a tough winter for High St retail. We really do need to level the playing field in terms of tax with the internet.
You’re right but it was an outlet/remainder store I recall so lacking huge make-up displays . Does show to me though that JL’s branding works. That I’d forgotten Rackhams(?) was there says much about marketing (or me).
I agree with 1, but 2 sets up a false choice. There's nothing wrong with saying both that people have a right to dress how they like and other people have a right not to like it. Forms of dress are partly an expresion of opinion, and this comes close to saying that we're all in favour of freedom of speech, so long as we agree with it.
I think Boris was being simultaneously rude and frivolous about a difficult issue
The issue is whether those women, and it is women, not men, who wear these costumes are expressing a right to dress how they would like.
Many are, some are not. Now I may regard their free decision to don what I consider to be oppressive misogynistic clothing as evidence that they have Stockholm syndrome, but they will undoubtably see it differently.
I more often see young women in Niqab than older, and not infrequently much more conservatively dressed than their parents. I think that at least in part this is second and third generation identity confusion, much like Rastafarianism in the Seventies and Eighties. These are often people who feel incompletely British, but also incompletely in touch with the old culture, and in investigating and seeking their true identity adopt a simalcrum of archaism. How genuine this spirituality is, as opposed to political, varies. It also varies whether it is a passing phase or a dissapearance down the rabbit hole.
My own approach is unlike Boris, I do not insult the wearers but rather support them in their education and careers. That is their best hope of escape.
How can they be supported in their education when in some Islamic schools young girls have to wear clothing which inhibits their ability to play, to do sports, when they are made to sit at the back or not allowed to learn certain subjects or told that their only role is as wives and mothers? Let’s not be naive: the burqa is one of a range of meaures by which a particular strand of extreme Islam seeks to control the women (and men) in its commumity so that, despite being British citizens, they do not integrate into British society or participate fully in it and develop views and attitudes which are often hostile to it (and can turn into something more violent). That is damaging to social cohesion and is not something we can airily dismiss just by saying that people can wear what they like.
There is, as you say, often something deeper going on. It may just be a passing phase. But it may also be a symptom of a politically motivated apartness which is harmful.
I think if Labour end up supporting a "People's Vote" Jezza will be able to spin it as "we need a vote because Chequers deal is bad" without actually saying what a good deal would look like. This will mean he can get the middle-class Remainers to stay in the party, as well as appeal to the Leaving working-class traditional Labour voters.
It isn't a sustainable position, but it is one that will provide cover for voting against a Chequers deal alongside the likes of JRM and BoJo, pushing the country closer to either a 2nd Ref or GE. The ultimate goal not being remaining (as I don't think Jezza really cares too much one way or t'other) but to just fracture the Tories irreversibly.
When predicting the future, I work on the basis that politicians who actively climb the greasy pole will lie any time it suits them. On that basis, we will have a second referendum as soon as they can engineer enough fig leaves to cover their previous statements.
The Labour party grandees never wanted one but had to go along with it for fear of being seen anti-democratic. Corbyn will break cover once he's convinced a GE may be in the offing and it's one he can win without losing too many WWC supporters.
Politics isn't rocket science, it's a game for ambitious children with acting abilities. Reagan had these, Trump lacks them. Corbyn …. time will tell, but I suspect he hasn't the nous or the timing.
That does not contradict the statement at all considering the South West as a whole ie including Remain voting areas like Bristol and Cheltenham only voted 52.6% Leave ie about 5% less than just Cornwall voted Leave.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
I know Corbyn has not backed it before, but I think he will. Either hell be swayed by such pressure supporters, and it means labour does not need to pick an option , but it wrongfoot the tories and pleases his base.
It's like his u turn on appearing in a tv debate if May wasn't coming. Very smart move, and no one cared that he had opposed doing so once he did it. Same here. Diehard remainers won't care he opposed it if he backs it later, his core cult won't care, and labour leavers might grumble but still get to vote leave.
The moment when Labour swings fully behind the People's Vote will be key, and I hope their timing is good. With a few Tory rebels there is then a parliamentary majority for it, and they need to work out how best to bring this to bear.
It will NEVER happen under Corbyn.
Corbyn is not going to risk losing Leave voters to the Tories or UKIP and see his PM hopes go with them to appease a few upper middle class Remainers led by the likes of Umunna who hates Corbyn anyway.
As Corbyn advisers made clear in the Sunday Times recently they do not give a toss about trying to reverse Brexit or stay in the single market they care about getting Corbyn into No 10 and for that they need working class Leave votes
Absolutely, Mr HY! Did Corbyn brief you personally on this, or was it via an intermediary?
I agree with 1, but 2 sets up a false choice. There's nothing wrong with saying both that people have a right to dress how they like and other people have a right not to like it. Forms of dress are partly an expresion of opinion, and this comes close to saying that we're all in favour of freedom of speech, so long as we agree with it.
I think Boris was being simultaneously rude and frivolous about a difficult issue
The issue is whether those women, and it is women, not men, who wear these costumes are expressing a right to dress how they would like.
Many are, some ar
My own approach is unlike Boris, I do not insult the wearers but rather support them in their education and careers. That is their best hope of escape.
How can they be supported in their education when in some Islamic schools young girls have to wear clothing which inhibits their ability to play, to do sports, when they are made to sit at the back or not allowed to learn certain subjects or told that their only role is as wives and mothers? Let’s not be naive: the burqa is one of a range of meaures by which a particular strand of extreme Islam seeks to control the women (and men) in its commumity so that, despite being British citizens, they do not integrate into British society or participate fully in it and develop views and attitudes which are often hostile to it (and can turn into something more violent). That is damaging to social cohesion and is not something we can airily dismiss just by saying that people can wear what they like.
There is, as you say, often something deeper going on. It may just be a passing phase. But it may also be a symptom of a politically motivated apartness which is harmful.
My contact us on tertiary education, where students are free to dress as they choose, albut with peer pressure like all youngsters. I don't argue against their choice as that tends to make them defensive, but I do try to keep their eyes open to a wider world.
I also see see patients with families and there it can be very variable, but seeing daughters in a Niqab but parents dressed Western is not unusual. Student Islamic societies can be quite coercive in these matters, though I haven't encountered it in Leicester.
I think Boris was being simultaneously rude and frivolous about a difficult issue
The issue is whether those women, and it is women, not men, who wear these costumes are expressing a right to dress how they would like.
Many are, some are not. Now I may regard their free decision to don what I consider to be oppressive misogynistic clothing as evidence that they have Stockholm syndrome, but they will undoubtably see it differently.
I more often see young women in Niqab than older, and not infrequently much more conservatively dressed than their parents. I think that at least in part this is second and third generation identity confusion, much like Rastafarianism in the Seventies and Eighties. These are often people who feel incompletely British, but also incompletely in touch with the old culture, and in investigating and seeking their true identity adopt a simalcrum of archaism. How genuine this spirituality is, as opposed to political, varies. It also varies whether it is a passing phase or a dissapearance down the rabbit hole.
My own approach is unlike Boris, I do not insult the wearers but rather support them in their education and careers. That is their best hope of escape.
How can they be supported in their education when in some Islamic schools young girls have to wear clothing which inhibits their ability to play, to do sports, when they are made to sit at the back or not allowed to learn certain subjects or told that their only role is as wives and mothers? Let’s not be naive: the burqa is one of a range of meaures by which a particular strand of extreme Islam seeks to control the women (and men) in its commumity so that, despite being British citizens, they do not integrate into British society or participate fully in it and develop views and attitudes which are often hostile to it (and can turn into something more violent). That is damaging to social cohesion and is not something we can airily dismiss just by saying that people can wear what they like.
There is, as you say, often something deeper going on. It may just be a passing phase. But it may also be a symptom of a politically motivated apartness which is harmful.
Those are quite justifiable concerns, which I share. Attacking the women who wear the garments is divisive and counterproductive if you are really concerned about those kids in schools.
In many towns and cities the last of the large, slightly old fashioned general department stores are run by HoF. The HoF store in Dundee High Street closed 20+ years ago. It is still not fully reoccupied.
You have to be very good to survive and exceptional to prosper as a general goods store. House of Fraser is/was neither. In Nottingham for example in the same tired Intu one has both. The differences were stark.
People had the same nostalgia about Woolworths. Nostalgia is the key word though.
I think latterly they lived on the pop up franchise/concessions within them which didn't do a lot to disperse the general perception of chaos and disorganisation. Way more than half their staff were working on concessions.
It can be done, Debenhams seem to do it quite well, but they tend to have purpose built modern accommodation as opposed to these old behemoths from the last century or even the one before. What will we do with these buildings? It can really bring the whole street down.
A glance at the US is often a guide to our future. Some cities like LA don't really have identifiable centers (sic). In my limited experience, the idea of a high street seems fairly foreign there - instead, there are still lots of smallish shops sprawled around, plus some luxury malls.
Comments
As for timeframes, it’s only some days difference. Both polls are well into the period in which yet another saga of the antisemitism scandal became news. The only thing that’s happened very recently is the whole Boris Burka row which seems to only be cared about by Westminster commentators. Not that I agree with what Boris said, because there I side with what many centre left commentators are saying.
Main difference Labour 5 points higher with ICM than YouGov and the LDs 3% lower and UKIP 1% lower in the ICM poll compared to the YouGov poll.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6975490/britains-wealthiest-man-sir-jim-ratcliffe-leaves-the-uk-to-move-to-low-tax-monaco/
Generations hence, they will look back and be astonished at how fawning liberals were over Islam.
"A father claims BA subjected him to "humiliation and racist behaviour", triggering calls for Indians to boycott the airline."
But some were sympathetic towards the airline, with one person saying: "I don't feel bad about this at all, we Indians don't respect or value our Indian resources, be it trains or airplanes, this is good learning for us."
Vani M Manokaran said what BA did "was absolutely right", while Khushi said: "Indian parents start howling too when kids start howling - three-year-olds outside India are taught how to behave socially."
Just statistical bobbling, probably. Have to see how the next few go.
It’s a sad commentary on the state of British politics.
Look how the Remainers delight over every MOE drift in Remain versus Leave!
Would you crush them utterly?
Parched in the summer heat, as 'twere.
Still I suppose Trump could pardon him right?
How many hedge buddies of the SEC are shorting the stock ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45139071
The latter half of the 17th century was notably cold. That wasn't because Charles II closed down all the coal-fired power stations.
I would have thought it standard to keep people while the appeal is going on...
Lord Ashcroft found 13% of Tories said their primary reason was the best PM/leadership which could be a proxy for that.
My alternative theory is that right wing people are enthused by Brexit and last time were keen to back Theresa May. And that there are left wing people tired of austerity, worried about the NHS etc. who are keen to back Corbyn and weren't particularly enthused by Miliband.
America's system is so prone to gridlock it's basically the only way to get certain things done.
Got to say I think Ferrari would be nuts to let Leclerc, or risk him, going to Red Bull.
Meanwhile if there is a full No Deal they can themselves kiss goodbye to Hastings, Southampton, Dover, Ramsgate etc. and any chance of regaining Canterbury or Oxford West.
He is utterly unfit for any sort of executive office. He isn't stupid, but he's lazy, disorganised, and has no common sense at all.
The tragedy is he can't seem to see that and accept the secondary role he's perfect for. As a result he will always be embittered and sniping at those who are more successful than he is.
This is a Remain led attack on Boris as he was the most prominant Leaver.
What about the other performing sealions?
Greive
Sourbury
May
Lewis etc etc
It's more difficult for Labour; refusing the adopt the international system for antisemitism looks like a guilty conscience for things said in the past.
Both should be easily dealt with, but things aren't always what they seem.
I expect this mid-summer madness will pass and we'll revert to juvenile name-calling by both parties.
This is a PCP attack on Boris because they want to make it clear to everyone including him that they consider him unfit to be leader.
They are showing sense in doing so.
Indeed less than 50% back a 'People's Vote' even on the poll you linked to
If done form of the Chequers deal is made and agreed, neither being certain by any means, I am sure the next Tory leader will be either a hard leaver or a convert more leavery than most leavers to compensate. There have to be non Boris options who lack his flaws, even of they lack his merits? They woukd have years to grow in the role.
May seems to be doing a Merkel and losing votes to her right to UKIP as Merkel has lost them to the AfD but making up for it by winning centrist Labour voters as Merkel has won centrist SPD voters
In many towns and cities the last of the large, slightly old fashioned general department stores are run by HoF. The HoF store in Dundee High Street closed 20+ years ago. It is still not fully reoccupied.
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1027790689323704320?s=19
Oops I seed you beet me to it.
It's like his u turn on appearing in a tv debate if May wasn't coming. Very smart move, and no one cared that he had opposed doing so once he did it. Same here. Diehard remainers won't care he opposed it if he backs it later, his core cult won't care, and labour leavers might grumble but still get to vote leave.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/27/john-lewis-to-close-five-waitrose-stores-after-warning-on-profits
People had the same nostalgia about Woolworths. Nostalgia is the key word though.
It can be done, Debenhams seem to do it quite well, but they tend to have purpose built modern accommodation as opposed to these old behemoths from the last century or even the one before. What will we do with these buildings? It can really bring the whole street down.
The Treasury gave two possibilities:
Shock scenario
2016q3 -0.1%
2016q4 -0.1%
2017q1 -0.1%
2017q2 -0.1%
2017q3 +0.2%
2017q4 +0.2%
2018q1 +0.2%
2018q2 +0.2%
Total +0.4%
Severe shock scenario
2016q3 -1.0%
2016q4 -0.4%
2017q1 -0.4%
2017q2 -0.4%
2017q3 +0.0%
2017q4 +0.0%
2018q1 +0.1%
2018q2 +0.1%
Total -2.0%
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524967/hm_treasury_analysis_the_immediate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf
Actual Outurn
2016q3 +0.5%
2016q4 +0.7%
2017q1 +0.4%
2017q2 +0.2%
2017q3 +0.4%
2017q4 +0.4%
2018q1 +0.2%
2018q2 +0.4% est
Total +3.2%
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyq/qna
Will we get the announcement of an official investigation into that Treasury prediction by the Electoral Commission today ?
Corbyn is not going to risk losing Leave voters to the Tories or UKIP and see his PM hopes go with them to appease a few upper middle class Remainers led by the likes of Umunna who hates Corbyn anyway.
As Corbyn advisers made clear in the Sunday Times recently they do not give a toss about trying to reverse Brexit or stay in the single market they care about getting Corbyn into No 10 and for that they need working class Leave votes
I think this is going to be a tough winter for High St retail. We really do need to level the playing field in terms of tax with the internet.
That is not an issue in an inner city Remain seat with a 20 000 Labour majority
There is, as you say, often something deeper going on. It may just be a passing phase. But it may also be a symptom of a politically motivated apartness which is harmful.
It isn't a sustainable position, but it is one that will provide cover for voting against a Chequers deal alongside the likes of JRM and BoJo, pushing the country closer to either a 2nd Ref or GE. The ultimate goal not being remaining (as I don't think Jezza really cares too much one way or t'other) but to just fracture the Tories irreversibly.
The Labour party grandees never wanted one but had to go along with it for fear of being seen anti-democratic. Corbyn will break cover once he's convinced a GE may be in the offing and it's one he can win without losing too many WWC supporters.
Politics isn't rocket science, it's a game for ambitious children with acting abilities. Reagan had these, Trump lacks them. Corbyn …. time will tell, but I suspect he hasn't the nous or the timing.
If I find them sprinkling chocolate on novelty beers, well....
I also see see patients with families and there it can be very variable, but seeing daughters in a Niqab but parents dressed Western is not unusual. Student Islamic societies can be quite coercive in these matters, though I haven't encountered it in Leicester.
Attacking the women who wear the garments is divisive and counterproductive if you are really concerned about those kids in schools.
Andrew Wakefield has done so much harm. Children have died because of his ignorance, greed and vanity.