Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
Ba-boom Tish!
Advanced along the Ebbw Vale rail branch yesterday, was pleasantly surprised to see that the civic buildings next to the station looked like a scaled down version of Cardiff Bay - um, minus the bay, of course!
Also, due to the block at Derby, managed to do Burton to Ilkeston direct via Castle Donington (M&S depot) and Toton (big marshalling yards).
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
So is your prediction that the UK will survive in its current form for the whole of your lifetime?
PS. For the avoidance of doubt, the comment to which you were replying was tongue in cheek.
I always thought the elegant situation would be for Northern Ireland to become an independent nation.
There are more people in Northern Ireland than in Fiji, Bahrain, Montenegro or Luxembourg, all of which are independent countries (discounting the EU of course in the latter case)
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Over to you, Jeremy.
I agree with all of that.
Me too. But I'm not sure Labour can do much more on this - we're now scratching at the itch rather than curing it. Corbyn has said multiple times that he's against anti-semitism and wants to throw out any anti-semites. I don't know that it'd be useful if he said it some more. He is obviously not a KKK sympathiser and what David Duke says is of no interest to us (just as when an American Nazi endorsed Obama - what was Obama supposed to do about it?). The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it, but it does have to work within the laws of fair procedure. The dispute on the precise examples of the IHLR is arcane and short of someone saying "Oh, on second thoughts you're right" will not be resolved.
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
I think Labour should ignore a very vocal and highly influential group.
Ignoring the antisemitism in their ranks is what got them into this mess in the first place. Continuing to do it isn't going to help.
The media storm is a London right wing middle class coffee table matter. The whole country is simply not interested. Too much credence has been given. Corbyn has played this wrongly.
Has Jeremy Corbyn ever stated that he supports Israel's right to exist as an independent state?
Only along with an independent Palestine and with Israel withdrawing from occupied territories. It has to be in accordance with Resolution 242 of the Security Council.
We must never forget that Israel is an ILLEGAL occupier.
Chatting to an ardent Brexiteer friend and Tory activist this week, he is adamant that May is to blame for (1) the state of negotiations and (2) the impending Corbyn government that he expects.
When asked why May is PM and not one of the Vote Leave cabinet ministers, there was no answer. Boris, Grove and Leadsome so screwing up the leadership election between them was the point beyond which Brexiteers lost the right to blame the PM.
As for Davis moaning about his plan not being adopted, someone should have explained that the best plan in the world is worthless if the boss doesn’t support it. A man who couldn’t successfully influence his own boss was never going to survive contact with the EU negotiation team.
May is there to to do the cave in to the EU for a transition deal, Boris to take over and give the Tories a chance of beating Corbyn before the next general election once it becomes clear the EU wants to make that transition period permanent
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
So is your prediction that the UK will survive in its current form for the whole of your lifetime?
PS. For the avoidance of doubt, the comment to which you were replying was tongue in cheek.
I suppose Glasgow could go independent, it voted Yes after all in 2014
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
As it is their homeland where they were born and raised and if they are not listened to they will start bombing again as is normal in Northern Ireland when one side feels ignored
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
So is your prediction that the UK will survive in its current form for the whole of your lifetime?
PS. For the avoidance of doubt, the comment to which you were replying was tongue in cheek.
I suppose Glasgow could go independent, it voted Yes after all in 2014
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
Sadly, you are right. No side will be happy. Also, I think that will be a more or less permanent situation for years to come.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
As it is their homeland where they were born and raised and if they are not listened to they will start bombing again as is normal in Northern Ireland when one side feels ignored
Why shouldn't the people of Fermanagh and Co.Down have their homeland ? After all, NI is a completely artificial creation. It is not even Ulster.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Over to you, Jeremy.
I agree with all of that.
Me too. But I'm not sure Labour can do much more on this - we're now scratching at the itch rather than curing it. Corbyn has said multiple times that he's against anti-semitism and wants to throw out any anti-semites. I don't know that it'd be useful if he said it some more. He is obviously not a KKK sympathiser and what David Duke says is of no interest to us (just as when an American Nazi endorsed Obama - what was Obama supposed to do about it?). The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it, but it does have to work within the laws of fair procedure. The dispute on the precise examples of the IHLR is arcane and short of someone saying "Oh, on second thoughts you're right" will not be resolved.
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
I think Labour should ignore a very vocal and highly influential group.
Ignoring the antisemitism in their ranks is what got them into this mess in the first place. Continuing to do it isn't going to help.
There's little evidence it will hurt though. Inconvenience? Sure.
Chatting to an ardent Brexiteer friend and Tory activist this week, he is adamant that May is to blame for (1) the state of negotiations and (2) the impending Corbyn government that he expects.
When asked why May is PM and not one of the Vote Leave cabinet ministers, there was no answer. Boris, Grove and Leadsome so screwing up the leadership election between them was the point beyond which Brexiteers lost the right to blame the PM.
As for Davis moaning about his plan not being adopted, someone should have explained that the best plan in the world is worthless if the boss doesn’t support it. A man who couldn’t successfully influence his own boss was never going to survive contact with the EU negotiation team.
May is there to to do the cave in to the EU for a transition deal, Boris to take over and give the Tories a chance of beating Corbyn before the next general election once it becomes clear the EU wants to make that transition period permanent
Are you the same HYUFD from even two months back ? When did you have a brain transplant ?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Boris is only playing the hard Brexit line in order to be elected leader and PM. He has to do that to get the membership vote. But once he is PM, he doesn't. He just needs a majority of Tory MPs to support him. We know he is ambivalent about Brexit. I doubt he would allow a hard Brexit to happen. He wouldn't need to. Mission achieved.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
I’m in favour of disenfranchisement ofthe working class and elderly given that they’re subsidy suckers.
Why shouldn't the people of Fermanagh and Co.Down have their homeland ? After all, NI is a completely artificial creation. It is not even Ulster.
All borders are artificial creations when you get right down to it, as an argument it undermines itself whenever it is used. It is real to many of the people there, and that is the key.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
As it is their homeland where they were born and raised and if they are not listened to they will start bombing again as is normal in Northern Ireland when one side feels ignored
Why shouldn't the people of Fermanagh and Co.Down have their homeland ? After all, NI is a completely artificial creation. It is not even Ulster.
Acoording to my calculations, using 2011 Census data, and whole local ward boundaries:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
As it is their homeland where they were born and raised and if they are not listened to they will start bombing again as is normal in Northern Ireland when one side feels ignored
Why shouldn't the people of Fermanagh and Co.Down have their homeland ? After all, NI is a completely artificial creation. It is not even Ulster.
Acoording to my calculations, using 2011 Census data, and whole local ward boundaries:
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
If people are looking for an example, James Ramsay Macdonald attended elementary school only (the equivalent after 1945 of a secondary modern) until the age of 14.
We have had comprehensive party leaders though who could have become PM e.g. Hague in 2001 or Ed Miliband in 2015
Major was PM for 7 years
Jim Callaghan?
Of course when Major and Callaghan went to school there were no comprehensives, just grammars and secondary moderns and a few technical schools.
Hague and Ed Miliband would almost certainly have gone to grammars back then, though Prescott famously failed his 11 plus and went to a secondary modern but still ended up PM
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in histoetrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Which Protestant Unionists in NI would never accept and Scotland has made clear it wants to stay part of the UK
Why should they get a veto ? They have sucked our subsidies for a long time.
As it is their homeland where they were born and raised and if they are not listened to they will start bombing again as is normal in Northern Ireland when one side feels ignored
Why shouldn't the people of Fermanagh and Co.Down have their homeland ? After all, NI is a completely artificial creation. It is not even Ulster.
If Fermanagh wants to join the Republic of Ireland eventually fine but it should not force Antrim out of the UK with it when it does not want to go
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Boris is only playing the hard Brexit line in order to be elected leader and PM. He has to do that to get the membership vote. But once he is PM, he doesn't. He just needs a majority of Tory MPs to support him. We know he is ambivalent about Brexit. I doubt he would allow a hard Brexit to happen. He wouldn't need to. Mission achieved.
Absolutely. Remember Boris had two articles ready for publication after Cameron resigned. He needed to think [ the only time his brain has done it for years ] for a while which side he was on. The Rat.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is coand EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
It will be pretty farcical if Boris does not toss his hat into the ring after all this time and so much effort to undermine May even when he was Foreign Secretary. It was already pretty preposterous that he didn't run last time, but to not do so again? Ridiculous. An extension of the stupidity of angrily claiming May is destroying the party and pursuing a terrible strategy without actively trying to take her down before now for the good of party and country.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are ag
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
And all of those are good models for Boris to follow and the country to be on the receiving end of?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt owth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Boris is only playing the hard Brexit line in order to be elected leader and PM. He has to do that to get the membership vote. But once he is PM, he doesn't. He just needs a majority of Tory MPs to support him. We know he is ambivalent about Brexit. I doubt he would allow a hard Brexit to happen. He wouldn't need to. Mission achieved.
He would need to to win back Tory to UKIP defectors and beat Corbyn and win a general election which is all he cares about given he has pots of money himself as does his wife and hard Brexit won't really affect him much personally
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
I agree with you on this too! Boris is now favourite on Betfair to be next PM (6.4 down from about 15). I've been on him since January. He is my biggest green as next PM.
Chatting to an ardent Brexiteer friend and Tory activist this week, he is adamant that May is to blame for (1) the state of negotiations and (2) the impending Corbyn government that he expects.
When asked why May is PM and not one of the Vote Leave cabinet ministers, there was no answer. Boris, Grove and Leadsome so screwing up the leadership election between them was the point beyond which Brexiteers lost the right to blame the PM.
As for Davis moaning about his plan not being adopted, someone should have explained that the best plan in the world is worthless if the boss doesn’t support it. A man who couldn’t successfully influence his own boss was never going to survive contact with the EU negotiation team.
May is there to to do the cave in to the EU for a transition deal, Boris to take over and give the Tories a chance of beating Corbyn before the next general election once it becomes clear the EU wants to make that transition period permanent
Are you the same HYUFD from even two months back ? When did you have a brain transplant ?
Well he used to support May, so he seems to have acquired a brain from somewhere.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are ag
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
And all of those are good models for Boris to follow and the country to be on the receiving end of?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
I agree with you on this too! Boris is now favourite on Betfair to be next PM (6.4 down from about 15). I've been on him since January. He is my biggest green as next PM.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
She just won’t get it through the Commons. ERG will not vote to pay 40bn for nothing let alone perpetual transition. Nor should any MP - it would be an absolute disgrace. I still feel May will not make it that far. There will be yet more resignations if she tries. My guess is that she will resign when she can no longer pretend that the EU will accept Chequers. She has left herself nowhere to go. Who really wants to lead a party whose members despise you?
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
@Sean_Fear Many thanks for this article. I am not Jewish, I am not a member of the Labour party, but I do feel betrayed by what they've allowed to happen. I would very much like to be a Labour supporter but I've realised my understanding of what Labour is & stands for is nostalgia and not for our times.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
But he will still be more competent than Corbyn would be and on current polls is the only Tory who would not trail Corbyn
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
That's true. But we are discussing his chances of being elected PM by Tory members because they see him as the best chance of defeating Corbyn. That is the only competence that matters. Nothing to do with the competence of governing.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt owth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Boris is only playing the hard Brexit line in order to be elected leader and PM. He has to do that to get the membership vote. But once he is PM, he doesn't. He just needs a majority of Tory MPs to support him. We know he is ambivalent about Brexit. I doubt he would allow a hard Brexit to happen. He wouldn't need to. Mission achieved.
He would need to to win back Tory to UKIP defectors and beat Corbyn and win a general election which is all he cares about given he has pots of money himself as does his wife and hard Brexit won't really affect him much personally
He can promise hard Brexit to win back Tory to UKIP defectors. He doesn't have to deliver it unless he wants a second term.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
The 2011 Census as stated above
Cavan 84.99% Catholic, 7.19% Protestant, 3.42% other, 4.41% none or "not stated" Donegal 85.42% Catholic, 8.50% Protestant, 2.04% other, 4.04% none or "not stated" Monaghan 86.70% Catholic, 7.30% Protestant, 2.91% other, 3.08% none or "not stated"
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
So was Churchill. Until he wasn’t.
And FWIW Boris did a good job as Mayor. Ultimately he is a vision person and not suited to being a follower, especially of someone who has no vision about anythng. The real question in respect of whether he can lead is whether he is aware of his own weaknesses and can put in place people around him who can counter them. May has failed this test, Brown did as well. I think Boris is more self-aware.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
I expect Tory MPs (and if not them, the public) will look at those examples and sensibly steer well clear.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition. This will get her over the line to Brexit but it will be BINO. I think @archer101au is also correct that she will offer the NI backstop as well. She will have to in order to get a Wihdrawal Agreement. This will stand a very good chance of passing both the UK and EU Parliaments, and is the only Brexit deal that can be done with the Parliamentary numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
She just won’t get it through the Commons. ERG will not vote to pay 40bn for nothing let alone perpetual transition. Nor should any MP - it would be an absolute disgrace. I still feel May will not make it that far. There will be yet more resignations if she tries. My guess is that she will resign when she can no longer pretend that the EU will accept Chequers. She has left herself nowhere to go. Who really wants to lead a party whose members despise you?
You say she won't get it through the Commons but your argument is unconvincing: 1. ERG won't vote for it - true but there are 80 of them at most. 2. No MP should vote for it - that's your political opinion not what will happen. 3. There will be more resignations - she can weather them. 4. She won't want to lead a party whose members despise her - yes she will.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt owth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Boris is only playing the hard Brexit line in order to be elected leader and PM. He has to do that to get the membership vote. But once he is PM, he doesn't. He just needs a majority of Tory MPs to support him. We know he is ambivalent about Brexit. I doubt he would allow a hard Brexit to happen. He wouldn't need to. Mission achieved.
He would need to to win back Tory to UKIP defectors and beat Corbyn and win a general election which is all he cares about given he has pots of money himself as does his wife and hard Brexit won't really affect him much personally
He can promise hard Brexit to win back Tory to UKIP defectors. He doesn't have to deliver it unless he wants a second term.
He does if the general election is after December 2020 when the transition period will be due to have ended.
Before he might get away with it but depends if enough Tory Leavers believe him
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - y numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
I expect Tory MPs (and if not them, the public) will look at those examples and sensibly steer well clear.
Not if a similar character is the only way to beat Corbyn and hold their seats, especially if they represent a marginal seat.
It was of course the public who elected Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi and I would not say the Leave voting and almost Corbyn electing UK public is much different
We have had comprehensive party leaders though who could have become PM e.g. Hague in 2001 or Ed Miliband in 2015
Did Major even get any A Levels ?
Major went to grammar school
At least unlike Lembit he wasn't an Old Estonian
Like!
Thatcher went a grammar school and May went to one which became a comprehensive. Actually May had quite a chequered educational career.
From 11 to 13 May went to a Catholic private school but when it shut she switched to the grammar.
She is the only PM or party leader to have been to a private school, a grammar school and a comprehensive school
May was born in Oct 1956, so (probably) started school either Sept or after Christmas 1961. When she was 13, in 1969, she went to a grammar school, which she means she either took and passed the 11+ in 1967 or took the 13+ in 1969.... possibly in her 13th year. Wikipedia suggests that she ‘won’ a place, which indicates that she passed an exam. She graduated in 1977, when she was, presumably, 20, going on 21, which suggests that unlike many 13+-ers she went straight into the year for her age, and indeed got a year ahead. Many who did that were held back for 2 years to catch up academically. Oner would have expected her to graduate at the end of the academic year in which she was 21. The private school she attended closed some 15 years after she left it. Unless Wikipedia has it’s facts wrong, of course. And I really should get out more!
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
The 2011 Census as stated above
Cavan 84.99% Catholic, 7.19% Protestant, 3.42% other, 4.41% none or "not stated" Donegal 85.42% Catholic, 8.50% Protestant, 2.04% other, 4.04% none or "not stated" Monaghan 86.70% Catholic, 7.30% Protestant, 2.91% other, 3.08% none or "not stated"
I’m told that there was a lot of ‘movement’ both ways across the border in the early to mid 1920’s
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan do not have large populations.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
I think @HYUFD is correct that May will get a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, - y numbers.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
I expect Tory MPs (and if not them, the public) will look at those examples and sensibly steer well clear.
Not if a similar character is the only way to beat Corbyn and hold their seats, especially if they represent a marginal seat.
It was of course the public who elected Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi and I would not say the Leave voting and almost Corbyn electing UK public is much different
Well the anti-LHRE LibDems in SW London would be safe, for a start.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
But he will still be more competent than Corbyn would be and on current polls is the only Tory who would not trail Corbyn
the fact that plenty of anti-tory posters are eagerly supporting your Boris4PM campaign should tell you why it is the dumbest idea since the Sinclair C5
She just won’t get it through the Commons. ERG will not vote to pay 40bn for nothing let alone perpetual transition. Nor should any MP - it would be an absolute disgrace. I still feel May will not make it that far. There will be yet more resignations if she tries. My guess is that she will resign when she can no longer pretend that the EU will accept Chequers. She has left herself nowhere to go. Who really wants to lead a party whose members despise you?
You say she won't get it through the Commons but your argument is unconvincing: 1. ERG won't vote for it - true but there are 80 of them at most. 2. No MP should vote for it - that's your political opinion not what will happen. 3. There will be more resignations - she can weather them. 4. She won't want to lead a party whose members despise her - yes she will.
Might as well chuck in a Brexit anecdote since as the Smiths might have sung, "every day is like Brexit-day". I was at dinner last night at a friend's house who are very pro-Remain. He is a vet and she works for a major American investment bank. They both said they just wanted certainty now and then they could plan. The wife who is working in the bank's Brexit preparation said their biggest issue is they have to plan for several scenarios, not knowing which one will play out. If they knew it was a No Deal Brexit, they could plan more easily.
They also had an interesting story about one of their friends who had gone to a dinner at the Conservative Association of one of the inner London councils which is Conservative controlled. Every one in the room apparently despised Theresa May and wanted her gone. I guess that goes to a comment on here before.
Barnesian, you are right. The ERG are not the majority of the party. The majority of the party just want to retain their seats. And they now know, thanks to the reaction to Chequers, that many run a strong chance of losing their seats in a Brexit backlash. The ERG should be eternally grateful for Chequers - is has massively increased the chances of a hard Brexit and of their colleagues not voting through TM's plans. Another one of her spectacular strategic failures.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
The 2011 Census as stated above
Cavan 84.99% Catholic, 7.19% Protestant, 3.42% other, 4.41% none or "not stated" Donegal 85.42% Catholic, 8.50% Protestant, 2.04% other, 4.04% none or "not stated" Monaghan 86.70% Catholic, 7.30% Protestant, 2.91% other, 3.08% none or "not stated"
I’m told that there was a lot of ‘movement’ both ways across the border in the early to mid 1920’s
And outright emigration of Catholics from NI to overseas, including my wife’s grandmother and other members of her family. (They could probably power half of Boston from Grandma Rose’s grave as her granddaughter married an Englishman!)
She just won’t get it through the Commons. ERG will not vote to pay 40bn for nothing let alone perpetual transition. Nor should any MP - it would be an absolute disgrace. I still feel May will not make it that far. There will be yet more resignations if she tries. My guess is that she will resign when she can no longer pretend that the EU will accept Chequers. She has left herself nowhere to go. Who really wants to lead a party whose members despise you?
You say she won't get it through the Commons but your argument is unconvincing: 1. ERG won't vote for it - true but there are 80 of them at most. 2. No MP should vote for it - that's your political opinion not what will happen. 3. There will be more resignations - she can weather them. 4. She won't want to lead a party whose members despise her - yes she will.
Labour will vote against. Even if some defect, they will easily be outnumbered by the ERG. The idea that MPs will join together in a show of ‘national unity’ would be fanciful at the best of times, but with Corbyn as leader? And why would they do this anyway - so they can get credit for ignoring the referendum outcome? They just would paint a huge target on their backs. The vast majority of constituencies voted Leave.
I just don’t see any Commons majority for anything other than CETA - the Tories would fall into line behind this. Chequers (what will be left of it) - no chance.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
The 2011 Census as stated above
Cavan 84.99% Catholic, 7.19% Protestant, 3.42% other, 4.41% none or "not stated" Donegal 85.42% Catholic, 8.50% Protestant, 2.04% other, 4.04% none or "not stated" Monaghan 86.70% Catholic, 7.30% Protestant, 2.91% other, 3.08% none or "not stated"
I’m told that there was a lot of ‘movement’ both ways across the border in the early to mid 1920’s
And outright emigration of Catholics from NI to overseas, including my wife’s grandmother and other members of her family. (They could probably power half of Boston from Grandma Rose’s grave as her granddaughter married an Englishman!)
North South, Catholic Protestant, Ireland was a net exporter of people until the 1990s. The 1950s were known as the lost decade as the economy was in the doldrums and emigration the only way out
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seem
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Key Remainers right.
We are agreed for now. Longer term it could be hard Brexit with Boris in 2022 then back to the single market with Umunna in 2027
Your love affair with Boris sidelines his back story of which we hear little - but will explode if he put his hat into the ring.
Back story does not matter if you have charisma, see Bill Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi
The problem is that Boris has proved to be incompetent in any position of responsibility,
So was Churchill. Until he wasn’t.
And FWIW Boris did a good job as Mayor. Ultimately he is a vision person and not suited to being a follower, especially of someone who has no vision about anythng. The real question in respect of whether he can lead is whether he is aware of his own weaknesses and can put in place people around him who can counter them. May has failed this test, Brown did as well. I think Boris is more self-aware.
Wrong in so many ways. Churchill was the perfect man for a unique moment, but was a poor administrator and continued to make strategic misjudgements throughout his life. Boris was a poor mayor, uninterested in the day job, unable to take his responsibilities seriously, interested only in expensive big new initiatives, most of which cost Londoners far more than promised and some of which were a total waste of money. And he isn't a vision person - not at all - he is a tactical politician, who judges each question before him based on his own personal self-interest at the time; he has barely any strategic insight at all, let alone firmly held principles or political views of his own. And his closets are so full that he stores his baggage, secrets and embarrassments down at Big Yellow.
OK. Antrim and Down can become North East Ireland. We will build a wall in the middle of Belfast. The Parachute regiment headquarters moved there. And, of course, Universal credit head office too.
And the whole of Ulster using 2011 data in the Republic also:
Ulster as a whole (all 9 counties) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Can you give a source please? Given Donegal is 81% Catholic these figures are very hard to believe. It would imply that one of Cavan or Monaghan is almost entirely Protestant, which is unlikely to be the case.
The 2011 Census as stated above
Cavan 84.99% Catholic, 7.19% Protestant, 3.42% other, 4.41% none or "not stated" Donegal 85.42% Catholic, 8.50% Protestant, 2.04% other, 4.04% none or "not stated" Monaghan 86.70% Catholic, 7.30% Protestant, 2.91% other, 3.08% none or "not stated"
I’m told that there was a lot of ‘movement’ both ways across the border in the early to mid 1920’s
And outright emigration of Catholics from NI to overseas, including my wife’s grandmother and other members of her family. (They could probably power half of Boston from Grandma Rose’s grave as her granddaughter married an Englishman!)
Not Protestand as well? That would set the sparks flying!
She just won’t get it through the Commons. ERG will not vote to pay 40bn for nothing let alone perpetual transition. Nor should any MP - it would be an absolute disgrace. I still feel May will not make it that far. There will be yet more resignations if she tries. My guess is that she will resign when she can no longer pretend that the EU will accept Chequers. She has left herself nowhere to go. Who really wants to lead a party whose members despise you?
You say she won't get it through the Commons but your argument is unconvincing: 1. ERG won't vote for it - true but there are 80 of them at most. 2. No MP should vote for it - that's your political opinion not what will happen. 3. There will be more resignations - she can weather them. 4. She won't want to lead a party whose members despise her - yes she will.
Labour will vote against. Even if some defect, they will easily be outnumbered by the ERG. The idea that MPs will join together in a show of ‘national unity’ would be fanciful at the best of times, but with Corbyn as leader? And why would they do this anyway - so they can get credit for ignoring the referendum outcome? They just would paint a huge target on their backs. The vast majority of constituencies voted Leave.
I just don’t see any Commons majority for anything other than CETA - the Tories would fall into line behind this. Chequers (what will be left of it) - no chance.
The Commons aren't going to be offered CETA - nor would the EU agree to it unless NI was excluded.
It is not certain that Labour would vote against a fudgy BINO. I can't see them voting for it but they might abstain. I think Corbyn would quite like a fudgy BINO. It gives him scope. They will only vote against if they think it would result in an early GE. But it won't, so they won't.
Corbyn wouldn't be acceptable as leader of "national unity". It would have to be someone like Dominic Grieve for a short period - long enough to get an extension of A50 form the EU and hold a 3-way referendum on the rejected BINO, no deal or remain. Remain would then win. Most constituencies would vote Remain and the clock would be reset. The majority would be in favour. That's democracy. But a government of national unity is not going to happen. The BINO deal will pass.
Comments
that would piss everyone off at the same time
Also, due to the block at Derby, managed to do Burton to Ilkeston direct via Castle Donington (M&S depot) and Toton (big marshalling yards).
'Former Scottish MP and minister Tom Harris quits Labour after 34 years'
https://tinyurl.com/yazembgg
PS. For the avoidance of doubt, the comment to which you were replying was tongue in cheek.
We must never forget that Israel is an ILLEGAL occupier.
Key Remainers are aghast at this prospect as it removes the possibility of a second referendum and of remaining in. They will look to the ERG for help in voting it down and getting a second referendum out of the political chaos that will ensue.
So these are the only possibilities - BINO or remaining in. "No deal" won't happen as Parliament won't allow it to happen, even if it takes a temporary Government of National Unity, aided by the EU, to prevent it. But it won't come to that. A fudged BINO is what is going to happen. @HYUFD is right.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/sarah-jeong-new-york-times-anti-white-racism.html
Hague and Ed Miliband would almost certainly have gone to grammars back then, though Prescott famously failed his 11 plus and went to a secondary modern but still ended up PM
Edit: Sorry! After the referendum was called.
Ulster (all) 50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
Thatcher went a grammar school and May went to one which became a comprehensive. Actually May had quite a chequered educational career.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster
Northern Ireland was 48% Protestant and 45% Catholic in the 2011 census
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Northern_Ireland
50.80% Catholic, 42.70% Protestant, 1.15% other, 5.36% none or "not stated"
She is the only PM or party leader to have been to a private school, a grammar school and a comprehensive school
Good afternoon, everyone.
Cavan shouldnt be in it and Louth should
bloody english cant even draw their borders right
And FWIW Boris did a good job as Mayor. Ultimately he is a vision person and not suited to being a follower, especially of someone who has no vision about anythng. The real question in respect of whether he can lead is whether he is aware of his own weaknesses and can put in place people around him who can counter them. May has failed this test, Brown did as well. I think Boris is more self-aware.
1. ERG won't vote for it - true but there are 80 of them at most.
2. No MP should vote for it - that's your political opinion not what will happen.
3. There will be more resignations - she can weather them.
4. She won't want to lead a party whose members despise her - yes she will.
Before he might get away with it but depends if enough Tory Leavers believe him
It was of course the public who elected Clinton, Trump and Berlusconi and I would not say the Leave voting and almost Corbyn electing UK public is much different
Oner would have expected her to graduate at the end of the academic year in which she was 21.
The private school she attended closed some 15 years after she left it.
Unless Wikipedia has it’s facts wrong, of course. And I really should get out more!
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-corbyn-says-israel-has-a-right-to-exist-under-1948-agreement/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/jeremy-corbyn-does-not-support-boycott-of-israel-bds-movement
any way we missed or best chance for peace years ago when Idi Amin offered to mediate you dukawallas messed it up for us
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
She just won’t get it through the Commons. ERG will not vote to pay 40bn for nothing let alone perpetual transition. Nor should any MP - it would be an absolute disgrace. I still feel May will not make it that far. There will be yet more resignations if she tries. My guess is that she will resign when she can no longer pretend that the EU will accept Chequers. She has left herself nowhere to go. Who really wants to lead a party whose members despise you?
You say she won't get it through the Commons but your argument is unconvincing:
1. ERG won't vote for it - true but there are 80 of them at most.
2. No MP should vote for it - that's your political opinion not what will happen.
3. There will be more resignations - she can weather them.
4. She won't want to lead a party whose members despise her - yes she will.
Might as well chuck in a Brexit anecdote since as the Smiths might have sung, "every day is like Brexit-day". I was at dinner last night at a friend's house who are very pro-Remain. He is a vet and she works for a major American investment bank. They both said they just wanted certainty now and then they could plan. The wife who is working in the bank's Brexit preparation said their biggest issue is they have to plan for several scenarios, not knowing which one will play out. If they knew it was a No Deal Brexit, they could plan more easily.
They also had an interesting story about one of their friends who had gone to a dinner at the Conservative Association of one of the inner London councils which is Conservative controlled. Every one in the room apparently despised Theresa May and wanted her gone. I guess that goes to a comment on here before.
Barnesian, you are right. The ERG are not the majority of the party. The majority of the party just want to retain their seats. And they now know, thanks to the reaction to Chequers, that many run a strong chance of losing their seats in a Brexit backlash. The ERG should be eternally grateful for Chequers - is has massively increased the chances of a hard Brexit and of their colleagues not voting through TM's plans. Another one of her spectacular strategic failures.
I just don’t see any Commons majority for anything other than CETA - the Tories would fall into line behind this. Chequers (what will be left of it) - no chance.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/04/tom-harris-resigns-from-labour-amid-antisemitism-row
Has Verstappen's team mate for next season been named yet?
It is not certain that Labour would vote against a fudgy BINO. I can't see them voting for it but they might abstain. I think Corbyn would quite like a fudgy BINO. It gives him scope. They will only vote against if they think it would result in an early GE. But it won't, so they won't.
Corbyn wouldn't be acceptable as leader of "national unity". It would have to be someone like Dominic Grieve for a short period - long enough to get an extension of A50 form the EU and hold a 3-way referendum on the rejected BINO, no deal or remain. Remain would then win. Most constituencies would vote Remain and the clock would be reset. The majority would be in favour. That's democracy. But a government of national unity is not going to happen. The BINO deal will pass.