Did you support the U.K. government lobbying on behalf of British citizens held in Guantanamo?
The key words there are British citizens.
We also protest to China about their treatment of political prisoners.
I am in no way defending what the US is reported to have done. I think it is silly.
But it is entirrly within their rights for them to speak to the U.K. ambassador about whatever they see fit
Indeed. But it is a stretch to link Mr Yaxley-Lennon with a political prisoner. Of course they can lobby for whatever they like. Rational observers can draw conclusions about the level of twattishness displayed.
I had to look up what Tommy Robinson had been jailed for when asked about it by American colleagues a few weeks back. Like it or not, he is big news over there, especially as it had been spun as a TV journalist jailed for reporting the facts.
Why is Tommy Robinson (aka Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, aka Andrew McMaster, aka Paul Harris ) "news" in America? I've just had a look at his Wiki page and he was born in Luton to Irish parents?
Can't see any connection with USA at all?
I've no idea why Tommy Robinson is big news in America but he is -- even the president knows about him.
Did you support the U.K. government lobbying on behalf of British citizens held in Guantanamo?
The key words there are British citizens.
We also protest to China about their treatment of political prisoners.
I am in no way defending what the US is reported to have done. I think it is silly.
But it is entirrly within their rights for them to speak to the U.K. ambassador about whatever they see fit
Indeed. But it is a stretch to link Mr Yaxley-Lennon with a political prisoner. Of course they can lobby for whatever they like. Rational observers can draw conclusions about the level of twattishness displayed.
I had to look up what Tommy Robinson had been jailed for when asked about it by American colleagues a few weeks back. Like it or not, he is big news over there, especially as it had been spun as a TV journalist jailed for reporting the facts.
Why is Tommy Robinson (aka Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, aka Andrew McMaster, aka Paul Harris ) "news" in America? I've just had a look at his Wiki page and he was born in Luton to Irish parents?
Can't see any connection with USA at all?
A lot of the septic Alt Right/Trumpers have taken up the case. As DJL says, the've had it fed to them as a free speech/imprisoned journalist thing.
Strangely these people don't seem half as concerned about journos in Russia.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
No, the killer for Boris is Labour antisemitism. SpAds of the other candidates will go round the tea rooms with a list of Boris's less diplomatic quotes saying, "look what happened to Labour; read these; even if you agree with him. we can't risk Boris".
Being unPC does not stop you winning elections, see Trump and Berlusconi. At the end of the day Tory MPs in marginal seats want a charismatic candidate who can beat Corbyn and save their seats
Look, I used to be the biggest Boris backer on pb for the reason you mention: charisma. But the Labour antisemitism row will be used by rivals to kill Boris's candidature well before the final votes.
The great majority of procedure is not set in stone within the Party constitution but is a working document that can be amended by two short meetings, of the 1922 Committee and the Party Board respectively.
Does this provide a mechanism for drafting Ruth Davidson for the leadership?
No - that's one of the rules in the Party constitution:
PART III
LEADERSHIP
10 There shall be a Leader of the Party (referred to in this Constitution as “the Leader”) drawn from those elected to Parliament, who shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members in accordance with the provisions of Schedule 2.
Although it doesn't specify Westminster as being the parliament in question, it does refer elsewhere to the Scottish Parliament in that terminology, so the implicit singular could only realistically mean Westminster.
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
No but at the end of the day there will be a pro Chequers Deal candidate and an anti Chequers Deal candidate. There are simply too many Brexiteer backbenchers for them not to be able to give a candidate at least a third of MPs votes in the final MPs round. Hence I think the members will be choosing between Javid and Boris.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
No but at the end of the day there will be a pro Chequers Deal candidate and an anti Chequers Deal candidate. There are simply too many Brexiteer backbenchers for them not to be able to give a candidate at least a third of MPs votes in the final MPs round. Hence I think the members will be choosing between Javid and Boris.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
Exhibit A - Jeremy Corbyn.
Exhibit B - Donald Trump
Exhibit C - Viktor Orban
Exhibit D - Jean Claude Juncker.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
No but at the end of the day there will be a pro Chequers Deal candidate and an anti Chequers Deal candidate. There are simply too many Brexiteer backbenchers for them not to be able to give a candidate at least a third of MPs votes in the final MPs round. Hence I think the members will be choosing between Javid and Boris.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
Exhibit A - Jeremy Corbyn.
Exhibit B - Donald Trump
Exhibit C - Viktor Orban
Exhibit D - Jean Claude Juncker.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
You are obsessed with Jeremy Corbyn , you hardly make a post without mentioning him.
Anyone still in the Cabinet must surely now be regarded as unacceptable to the Moggites.
So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.
That leaves a choice of:
Bojo Davis Moggster Priti
Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.
Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.
If the Moggites can't even conjure up 48 letters there is no chance of them running a slate for the leadership. The Brexiteers are as split as the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet combined on how to go about Brexit. In the leadership ballot, it will be the Home and Foreign Secretaries in the final two, but don't overlook our esteemed Chancellor as a dark horse. He's been the one not shifting his position with the headlines, and reality is converging on what he said at the beginning. Hammond might be the grey man candidate to move on from Brexit -- like John Major and the poll tax.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
On that note, why does the Establishment imagine that any American president will be impressed by the guards? In America, all universities and most high schools have their own marching bands. It is commonplace over there.
This article is nearly a month old, and I'm not sure how far I trust this website either. However, i haven't seen it discussed here and if true it is extremely interesting:
If the EU requires visas for UK nationals travelling to the EU, then there can be no use of this Northern Ireland backstop we have heard so much about. Because there would have to be border checks in Ireland and an end to the Common Travel Area.
That means one of three things:
1) The EU is not, whatever it says, seriously interested in its interpretation of the agreement on Northern Ireland and will not let it be a deal breaker;
2) The EU expects a deal, which will include a substantial amount of cross-border movement and therefore it is looking at theoretical possibilities in case Britain vetoes a deal;
3) The EU is getting ready to throw Ireland under a bus.
Any or all are possible. However, none match Barnier's recent public pronouncements (which is hardly surprising given he's a former French minister of agriculture and Trump would be disqualified from that role because he's much too honest and intelligent).
A slightly odd intellectual exercise; the time taken up is not the time when MPs do the whittling down to two, it's the time when it's out to the members. So yes, a week could be saved at the MPs stage but the real problem is the postal ballot among party members.
Actually, it could be 2-3 weeks saved because of the Tuesday/Thursday thing. It matters because if there is a VoNC very soon - or indeed, at any point when there's a looming recess - then the procedures wouldn't fit with the parliamentary timetable.
For example, suppose the 48th letter went in on Tuesday. The timetable, assuming May lost (which is no guarantee but run with it for the sake of this exercise), would then probably look something like:
Tue 17 July - VoNC delcared
Wed 18 July - VoNC held In 2003, the vote was the day after the threshold was reached.
Thu 26 July - Close of nominations for leadership election. See rule 15: "Nominations will close at Noon on a Thursday and the Returning Officer will immediately publish a list of the valid nominations received." To close nominations only 18 hours after a VoNC result (and less than 48 hours after the vote was announced) would be unreasonably short.
Let's assume five candidates and three rounds of voting (there could be fewer, if candidates withdraw, or more, if there's a tie for last place and both candidates continue)
Tue 31 July - First round of MP voting
Thu 2 Aug - Second round of MP voting
Tue 7 Aug - Third round of MP voting
Except that parliament is due to rise for the summer recess on 24 July. So how are MPs supposed to vote if they are not physically present? In theory, electronic voting would be within the rules but to hold a secure and private ballot may not be feasible within the timeframe.
In practice, the only option would be to amend the timescale and/or the election system.
Option 4 in your thread-header would be the best and fairest way - candidates (who must be MPs), would each require the support of at least 15% of the parliamentary party to be on the ballot paper, and the membership would then choose the winner by STV.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
Anyone still in the Cabinet must surely now be regarded as unacceptable to the Moggites.
So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.
That leaves a choice of:
Bojo Davis Moggster Priti
Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.
Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.
If the Moggites can't even conjure up 48 letters there is no chance of them running a slate for the leadership. The Brexiteers are as split as the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet combined on how to go about Brexit. In the leadership ballot, it will be the Home and Foreign Secretaries in the final two, but don't overlook our esteemed Chancellor as a dark horse. He's been the one not shifting his position with the headlines, and reality is converging on what he said at the beginning. Hammond might be the grey man candidate to move on from Brexit -- like John Major and the poll tax.
Corbyn would easily beat Hammond. Javid even Hunt and Gove are ahead of him with the pro Chequers wing
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
No but at the end of the day there will be a pro Chequers Deal candidate and an anti Chequers Deal candidate. There are simply too many Brexiteer backbenchers for them not to be able to give a candidate at least a third of MPs votes in the final MPs round. Hence I think the members will be choosing between Javid and Boris.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
What? I am not voting for my Tory MP again if he doesn't recognize Corbyn as a chateau bottled shit.
Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)
- separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office - blanket travel bans - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes - threaten NATO stability
So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
If Trump and Obama are so similar, why do so many Trump rampers on both sides of the Atlantic hate Obama so much?
You asked me once whether Corbyn had ever personally attacked his opponents, accusing me of lying.
I sent you a private message with the relevant evidence that he had.
You never responded.
May I gently suggest that your protestations are not wholly convincing?
(I'm assuming that comment was directed to me, although I note you didn't actually address the key point I was making.)
Suggest what you like .Nevertheless you are becoming unhinged about your hatred for Corbyn.
For the record as a previous member of Unison , I was entitled to a vote and voted for Andy Burnham in the first election and Owen Smith in the second Labour leadership elections.
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
As he wins elections and referendums
I agree with you. I'm backing Boris.
I'd also like to back Dominic Grieve as next PM in the unlikely event of an emergency government of national unity to defer A50 to avoid going over the cliff of no deal. But I can't find a bet on him. I can bet on Arron Banks or Ann Widdecombe but not Dominic Grieve who is surely more likely.
But Boris is the one. He's most like Trump - a winner.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
As he wins elections and referendums
I agree with you. I'm backing Boris.
I'd also like to back Dominic Grieve as next PM in the unlikely event of an emergency government of national unity to defer A50 to avoid going over the cliff of no deal. But I can't find a bet on him. I can bet on Arron Banks or Ann Widdecombe but not Dominic Grieve who is surely more likely.
But Boris is the one. He's most like Trump - a winner.
Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)
- separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office - blanket travel bans - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes - threaten NATO stability
So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
If Trump and Obama are so similar, why do so many Trump rampers on both sides of the Atlantic hate Obama so much?
Yougov this week had Tory, Labour and LD voters giving Obama AND George W Bush higher approval ratings than Trump.
Generally the only Brits who really like Trump are UKIP voters
I'd also like to back Dominic Grieve as next PM in the unlikely event of an emergency government of national unity to defer A50 to avoid going over the cliff of no deal. But I can't find a bet on him. I can bet on Arron Banks or Ann Widdecombe but not Dominic Grieve who is surely more likely.
But Boris is the one. He's most like Trump - a winner.
Most big bookies will quote you a price on anything if you ask them (often via twitter). Not necessarily a generous price but ...
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
If the the anti-Chequers deal lot are struggling to get 48 MPs to trigger a VONC in Mrs May I wouldn't be too confident on them having a candidate in the final two.
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
As he wins elections and referendums
I agree with you. I'm backing Boris.
I'd also like to back Dominic Grieve as next PM in the unlikely event of an emergency government of national unity to defer A50 to avoid going over the cliff of no deal. But I can't find a bet on him. I can bet on Arron Banks or Ann Widdecombe but not Dominic Grieve who is surely more likely.
But Boris is the one. He's most like Trump - a winner.
Grieve has more chance than Soubry but that is about it but yes there should be a market on him somewhere
Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)
- separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office - blanket travel bans - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes - threaten NATO stability
So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
If Trump and Obama are so similar, why do so many Trump rampers on both sides of the Atlantic hate Obama so much?
Yougov this week had Tory, Labour and LD voters giving Obama AND George W Bush higher approval ratings than Trump.
Generally the only Brits who really like Trump are UKIP voters
The Tory right seems pretty fond of him - Johnson, Rees Mogg etc.
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
Whichever method is chosen even if the MP rounds are amended I think it is increasingly likely MPs will pick Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson as their final two to be sent to party members, Javid being the slightly more Eurosceptic than May candidate of the Remain pro Chequers Deal wing of the party and Boris being the candidate of the hard Brexit Leavers and ERG anti Chequers Deal wing of the party.
I think Mogg will back Boris in the end
You still think Boris has any support from either MPs or members, after his antics of the past week?
From the hard Brexit wing absolutely. His decision to resign from the Cabinet over Chequers catapulted him to the front with Mogg and ahead of Gove of potential candidates to represent the pro Leave, hard Brexit, anti Chequers Deal wing of the parliamentary party in the leadership election when May goes.
I have also detected a definite swing towards Boris from pro Leave, anti Chequers Deal members over the last week too since he resigned, some see him as Churchill to May's Chamberlain
But the members don’t get to choose who is on the final two.
I know a few MPs who have said Boris ruined what was left of his chances when he skipped the COBRA meeting and the Balkans meeting.
I mean the COBRA meeting wasn’t a meeting about something important.
The Cobra Meeting and Balkans meeting issue will just be an issue for mainly pro Chequers Deal MPs who will vote for Javid, Gove or Hunt and won't touch Boris with a bargepole anyway
The killer for Boris is surely in the Yougov poll. Tory voters are evenly divided whether he's an asset or liability.
Boris is now widely seen as a thoroughly vile human being. Why would the Tories want him as leader?
As he wins elections and referendums
I agree with you. I'm backing Boris.
I'd also like to back Dominic Grieve as next PM in the unlikely event of an emergency government of national unity to defer A50 to avoid going over the cliff of no deal. But I can't find a bet on him. I can bet on Arron Banks or Ann Widdecombe but not Dominic Grieve who is surely more likely.
But Boris is the one. He's most like Trump - a winner.
But Trump would not be electable here!
I can't argue with that! But his methods seem to work and Boris is the best UK exponent of them.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
So, May has survived, indeed marginally stronger in the short term, and the Tory Party has not unravelled. Naturally it could still do do in the autumn (my original fear and prediction) when some sort of deal will be finalised or not. Maybe, like Miss Mona Lott, it’s being so cheerful as keeps me going, but curiously I am more cautiously optimistic that somehow the show will (just about) stay on the road. No betting on that though.
In which case, Mrs M could be at the helm for much of the next year - I still don’t believe she will fight the next election - in which case polls today mean very little about her successor. Now that Hunt and Javid occupy the most senior Cabinet roles, both could credibly be sent to members. Or Dominic Raab or Penny Mordaunt. Finally, finally, and more by accident than design, the party can choose between adult contenders.
Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)
- separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office - blanket travel bans - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes - threaten NATO stability
So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
- obama separated children and parents when the courts chose that. The only difference is one if degree not principal
- um GCHQ much? Why should political opponents have more rights that other citizens?
- he was pretty derogatory about other minorities such as white working class GOP voters: I think it was him (not Clinton) who made the comment about guns and Bibles
- travel bans upheld (finally) by the courts
I’ll give you the last 2 points. Against that with the failure to stand against Syrian use in chemical weapons his legacy is even more toxic
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
Yep, Livingstone was very damaged goods by 2012. But therein lies Johnson’s hopes with Corbyn. The difference, though, is that a lot of people actively loathe Johnson in a way they didn’t before, while he has also demonstrated in London and the FO that he is lazy and unable to do detail. Not much would get me voting Corbyn Labour at the next GE. Johnson as Tory leader would.
On that note, why does the Establishment imagine that any American president will be impressed by the guards? In America, all universities and most high schools have their own marching bands. It is commonplace over there.
Also the drill standards of US forces are higher than British ones.
You only had to look at the state of the marching at the RAF 100 business to see how far standards have slipped.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
These stories, along with the numerous extra-marital dalliances over the years, are the reason he has no chance of winning.
This is all very well known by MPs, if not by the general population or even the general membership, and would all be aired again if Boris was to stand for the leadership. There's more reasons than Michael Gove behind his not standing in 2016.
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
Was surprised the other day , a friend of mine , who voted remain ,agreed with Boris and David David regarding the Chequers agreement .He said if we are leaving then it should mean that not a Bino.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
These stories, along with the numerous extra-marital dalliances over the years, are the reason he has no chance of winning.
This is all very well known by MPs, if not by the general population or even the general membership, and would all be aired again if Boris was to stand for the leadership. There's more reasons than Michael Gove behind his not standing in 2016.
Sandpit you might be correct.
However if he ever became leader , I am sure he will win a majority against Corbyn. As concerns would have to be put to one side for the greater good.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
These stories, along with the numerous extra-marital dalliances over the years, are the reason he has no chance of winning.
This is all very well known by MPs, if not by the general population or even the general membership, and would all be aired again if Boris was to stand for the leadership. There's more reasons than Michael Gove behind his not standing in 2016.
And that was before Zaghari-Ratcliffe, which swung me irrevocably against him.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
Most people are unaware of that story. Were Boris to become Tory leader it would get another outing and would still have the potential to do him great damage. I sense that he is now widely perceived as 'phoney' and entirely self serving to the point that few trust him. In his own constituency he suffered a big swing against him in 2017.
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
This doesn't seem like you Charles. I don't think it's Brexiteers in general but a group of senior ones who want to regain our sovereignty so we can bend over to a dreadful US administration. I'm sure there are plenty of Brexiteers who don't want that either. As for your comparison between TR and Guantanamo...... Perhaps when we jail an American citizen for years without due process in conditions like Guantanamo seriously. I suppose a US government can raise any issues it wants but their choice of this one just shows how crazy the current administraton.
Brendan O'Neill Obama vs Trump - it's up for everyone to decide for themselves. I think most people just take the view that Obama was a decent man trying to do a difficult job whereas Trump is just an awful man.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
Yep, Livingstone was very damaged goods by 2012. But therein lies Johnson’s hopes with Corbyn. The difference, though, is that a lot of people actively loathe Johnson in a way they didn’t before, while he has also demonstrated in London and the FO that he is lazy and unable to do detail. Not much would get me voting Corbyn Labour at the next GE. Johnson as Tory leader would.
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
This doesn't seem like you Charles. I don't think it's Brexiteers in general but a group of senior ones who want to regain our sovereignty so we can bend over to a dreadful US administration. I'm sure there are plenty of Brexiteers who don't want that either. As for your comparison between TR and Guantanamo...... Perhaps when we jail an American citizen for years without due process in conditions like Guantanamo seriously. I suppose a US government can raise any issues it wants but their choice of this one just shows how crazy the current administraton.
Brendan O'Neill Obama vs Trump - it's up for everyone to decide for themselves. I think most people just take the view that Obama was a decent man trying to do a difficult job whereas Trump is just an awful man.
There is little doubt that Obama is a much better person than Trump is.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
Most people are unaware of that story. Were Boris to become Tory leader it would get another outing and would still have the potential to do him great damage. I sense that he is now widely perceived as 'phoney' and entirely self serving to the point that few trust him. In his own constituency he suffered a big swing against him in 2017.
Hopefully his manifest unsuitabilities would get discussed well before he actually became leader!
The nightmare scenario would be if the MPs' selection gets screwed up and we get Boris and Hammond or Rudd sent to the members. It would be like IDS v Ken Clarke all over again - except in government and with Brexit as a live issue.
My personal vote would go to Javid or Gove - people who see Brexit as an opportunity rather than as a threat.
Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)
- separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office - blanket travel bans - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes - threaten NATO stability
So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
If Trump and Obama are so similar, why do so many Trump rampers on both sides of the Atlantic hate Obama so much?
Yougov this week had Tory, Labour and LD voters giving Obama AND George W Bush higher approval ratings than Trump.
Generally the only Brits who really like Trump are UKIP voters
Surprising we have so many UKIP voters on here then.
Interesting. I can't think of any serious Tory leadership candidates that Corbyn could defeat except for Johnson. After the last few years the electorate above all will want a safe pair of hands. Something that neither Corbyn nor Johnson offer. I'd say even Govey has a better chance.
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
This doesn't seem like you Charles. I don't think it's Brexiteers in general but a group of senior ones who want to regain our sovereignty so we can bend over to a dreadful US administration. I'm sure there are plenty of Brexiteers who don't want that either. As for your comparison between TR and Guantanamo...... Perhaps when we jail an American citizen for years without due process in conditions like Guantanamo seriously. I suppose a US government can raise any issues it wants but their choice of this one just shows how crazy the current administraton.
Brendan O'Neill Obama vs Trump - it's up for everyone to decide for themselves. I think most people just take the view that Obama was a decent man trying to do a difficult job whereas Trump is just an awful man.
There is little doubt that Obama is a much better person than Trump is.
Time will tell whether he is a better President.
I don't think time is needed. The tearing away of three year olds from their parents to put them in cages with strangers for months us a serious dark period for America. It will be remembered akin to Japanese internment.
This article is nearly a month old, and I'm not sure how far I trust this website either. However, i haven't seen it discussed here and if true it is extremely interesting:
If the EU requires visas for UK nationals travelling to the EU, then there can be no use of this Northern Ireland backstop we have heard so much about. Because there would have to be border checks in Ireland and an end to the Common Travel Area.
That means one of three things:
1) The EU is not, whatever it says, seriously interested in its interpretation of the agreement on Northern Ireland and will not let it be a deal breaker;
2) The EU expects a deal, which will include a substantial amount of cross-border movement and therefore it is looking at theoretical possibilities in case Britain vetoes a deal;
3) The EU is getting ready to throw Ireland under a bus.
Any or all are possible. However, none match Barnier's recent public pronouncements (which is hardly surprising given he's a former French minister of agriculture and Trump would be disqualified from that role because he's much too honest and intelligent).
Is the Eu talking about visas for UK citizens or merely ESTA/pre authorisation like you do for the US or Canada and alternatively ID pre registration if you fly to Spain as happens now for the 9 milion Brits who go there every year for each flight? The thought that the EU would introduce visas for UK nationals going on holiday to Spain or Greece seems quite ridiculous - citizens of Nicaragua and Vanuatu don't need visas to visit the EU Schengen area for tourism?
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
Most people are unaware of that story. Were Boris to become Tory leader it would get another outing and would still have the potential to do him great damage. I sense that he is now widely perceived as 'phoney' and entirely self serving to the point that few trust him. In his own constituency he suffered a big swing against him in 2017.
That got huge coverage both times he ran for London mayor, plus all the bullingdon stuff. BBC ran panorama specials on him. Didn’t seem to do him any harm, probably because red ken has even more dodgy friends.
This article is nearly a month old, and I'm not sure how far I trust this website either. However, i haven't seen it discussed here and if true it is extremely interesting:
If the EU requires visas for UK nationals travelling to the EU, then there can be no use of this Northern Ireland backstop we have heard so much about. Because there would have to be border checks in Ireland and an end to the Common Travel Area.
That means one of three things:
1) The EU is not, whatever it says, seriously interested in its interpretation of the agreement on Northern Ireland and will not let it be a deal breaker;
2) The EU expects a deal, which will include a substantial amount of cross-border movement and therefore it is looking at theoretical possibilities in case Britain vetoes a deal;
3) The EU is getting ready to throw Ireland under a bus.
Any or all are possible. However, none match Barnier's recent public pronouncements (which is hardly surprising given he's a former French minister of agriculture and Trump would be disqualified from that role because he's much too honest and intelligent).
It would apply to travel to the Schengen zone, not the EU per se, so I don’t think it says anything about the situation with Ireland.
A slightly odd intellectual exercise; the time taken up is not the time when MPs do the whittling down to two, it's the time when it's out to the members. So yes, a week could be saved at the MPs stage but the real problem is the postal ballot among party members.
I think that phrase is applicable at all times and to both parties.
Does anyone in the Conservative Party have the right to keep a tally of the number of Confidence Vote letters Graham Brady has received? If he has already received 48 letters who would know apart from himself ? Could he delay informing others that the 48 total had been reached - or surpassed ? I'm not suggesting anything untoward - just wondering.
Interesting. I can't think of any serious Tory leadership candidates that Corbyn could defeat except for Johnson. After the last few years the electorate above all will want a safe pair of hands. Something that neither Corbyn nor Johnson offer. I'd say even Govey has a better chance.
I think precisely the opposite, I think Corbyn could beat all of the Tory leadership candidates except for Johnson and maybe Javid.
Gove for instance would now be trounced by Corbyn, even Mogg would do better against Corbyn than Gove
Does anyone in the Conservative Party have the right to keep a tally of the number of Confidence Vote letters Graham Brady has received? If he has already received 48 letters who would know apart from himself ? Could he delay informing others that the 48 total had been reached - or surpassed ? I'm not suggesting anything untoward - just wondering.
Brady is a politician. I'm sure that we can trust him to do everything above board.
Does anyone in the Conservative Party have the right to keep a tally of the number of Confidence Vote letters Graham Brady has received? If he has already received 48 letters who would know apart from himself ? Could he delay informing others that the 48 total had been reached - or surpassed ? I'm not suggesting anything untoward - just wondering.
Interesting. I can't think of any serious Tory leadership candidates that Corbyn could defeat except for Johnson. After the last few years the electorate above all will want a safe pair of hands. Something that neither Corbyn nor Johnson offer. I'd say even Govey has a better chance.
Let me think now, weren't you one of those confidently predicting TMay was going to whitewash the Labour Party and destroy Corbyn in 2017 GE? Nearly every one of the present Tory contenders has realised that Corbyn in electioneering mode, with the inbuilt bias of the TV media negated for the run up would destroy their party. Corbyn has played it brilliantly, the Tories and the right wing press cannot attack him over Brexit, which would have course binded the Tories together with an attack front against him. Amusingly, both the Tory Brexiteers and the Leavers are stuck in attacking each other rather than Labour, in effect, he is causing the Tories to implode.
Pictures of Corbyn addressing 10's and 100's of thousands of people at marches, events and meetings compares with the recent broadcast of TMay addressing a cow in some barn. Do you really think Gove et al hasn't noticed?
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
Most people are unaware of that story. Were Boris to become Tory leader it would get another outing and would still have the potential to do him great damage. I sense that he is now widely perceived as 'phoney' and entirely self serving to the point that few trust him. In his own constituency he suffered a big swing against him in 2017.
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum which he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.
I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum afte he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)
- separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office - blanket travel bans - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes - threaten NATO stability
So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
If Trump and Obama are so similar, why do so many Trump rampers on both sides of the Atlantic hate Obama so much?
Yougov this week had Tory, Labour and LD voters giving Obama AND George W Bush higher approval ratings than Trump.
Generally the only Brits who really like Trump are UKIP voters
Surprising we have so many UKIP voters on here then.
The vast majority of ordinary folk, whatever they vote, have next to zero interest in politics. In a real sense sites such as this are full of freaks of nature.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
Most people are unaware of that story. Were Boris to become Tory leader it would get another outing and would still have the potential to do him great damage. I sense that he is now widely perceived as 'phoney' and entirely self serving to the point that few trust him. In his own constituency he suffered a big swing against him in 2017.
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum which he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Boris has been exposed as a fraud and his credibility for high office is gone. May knew what she was doing by making him FS whilst putting all the Brexit stuff into a new department.
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum afte he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Almost identical then, IDS and Justine Greening, David Burrowes and Jane Ellison all saw bigger swings against them than Boris regardless of whether they were Leave or Remain
Does anyone in the Conservative Party have the right to keep a tally of the number of Confidence Vote letters Graham Brady has received? If he has already received 48 letters who would know apart from himself ? Could he delay informing others that the 48 total had been reached - or surpassed ? I'm not suggesting anything untoward - just wondering.
Afaik, it is just Brady.
Yep. He can of course say 'Are you sure?' to someone delivering a letter, and can call MPs who have submitted letters already asking him if they want to take them back, but once he gets letter #48 he announces the VoNC ballot. He may or may not choose to share the number of letters he currently has on file with the Chief Whip or with Number 10.
As Chair of the '22, he works for the MPs as a group rather than for the leader and the whips, which is why he is the person in charge of the confidence and election process.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
I don't think many Tory MPs consider Jeremy Corbyn as a vile human being however much they disagree with him. It also seems unlikely to me that the others on your list are examples likely to inspire Tory MPs - or indeed party members.
Boris v Corbyn
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
I doubt that somehow. The electorate would need little convincing as to who was the more authentic - and principled - of the two.People have seen through Boris now - no way would he be electable as London Mayor today. Had Labour selected a different candidate he would have lost in 2012.
None of the backstory sticks to Boris even this had no effect .
Most people are unaware of that story. Were Boris to become Tory leader it would get another outing and would still have the potential to do him great damage. I sense that he is now widely perceived as 'phoney' and entirely self serving to the point that few trust him. In his own constituency he suffered a big swing against him in 2017.
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum which he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Boris has been exposed as a fraud and his credibility for high office is gone. May knew what she was doing by making him FS whilst putting all the Brexit stuff into a new department.
His credibility with left liberals and diehard Remainers is gone maybe, but Boris can still win the Tory leadership and win a general election and become PM with a small overall majority without them and despite their loathing of him
Interesting. I can't think of any serious Tory leadership candidates that Corbyn could defeat except for Johnson. After the last few years the electorate above all will want a safe pair of hands. Something that neither Corbyn nor Johnson offer. I'd say even Govey has a better chance.
Let me think now, weren't you one of those confidently predicting TMay was going to whitewash the Labour Party and destroy Corbyn in 2017 GE? Nearly every one of the present Tory contenders has realised that Corbyn in electioneering mode, with the inbuilt bias of the TV media negated for the run up would destroy their party. Corbyn has played it brilliantly, the Tories and the right wing press cannot attack him over Brexit, which would have course binded the Tories together with an attack front against him. Amusingly, both the Tory Brexiteers and the Leavers are stuck in attacking each other rather than Labour, in effect, he is causing the Tories to implode.
Pictures of Corbyn addressing 10's and 100's of thousands of people at marches, events and meetings compares with the recent broadcast of TMay addressing a cow in some barn. Do you really think Gove et al hasn't noticed?
There isn't a Labour leader since and including Michael Foot that I haven't voted for so I've had plenty of practice at spotting and voting for no-hopers. Corbyn might be the the first one I pass on. Not because of any crap about consorting with terrorists but because he's serially disloyal, a 70's retread and at least as responsible for Brexit as Cameron.
Geographically, could be bad too. If Boris is good for London that'll lead to some gains but I could see him turning off a lot of people in red-blue Yorkshire marginals. I also think he's long since reached the zenith of his appeal is now on the downward slope.
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum afte he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Almost identical then, IDS and Justine Greening, David Burrowes and Jane Ellison all saw bigger swings against them than Boris regardless of whether they were Leave or Remain
The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum afte he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
Almost identical then, IDS and Justine Greening, David Burrowes and Jane Ellison all saw bigger swings against them than Boris regardless of whether they were Leave or Remain
HYUFD admits lying about polling data shock.
There was likely less of a swing against the Tories in Labour safe seats in London than in seats the Tories currently held and Labour held marginals in London.
If you took out Labour safe seats Boris almost certainly got a swing lower than the London average against the Tories
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
This doesn't seem like you Charles. I don't think it's Brexiteers in general but a group of senior ones who want to regain our sovereignty so we can bend over to a dreadful US administration. I'm sure there are plenty of Brexiteers who don't want that either. As for your comparison between TR and Guantanamo...... Perhaps when we jail an American citizen for years without due process in conditions like Guantanamo seriously. I suppose a US government can raise any issues it wants but their choice of this one just shows how crazy the current administraton.
Brendan O'Neill Obama vs Trump - it's up for everyone to decide for themselves. I think most people just take the view that Obama was a decent man trying to do a difficult job whereas Trump is just an awful man.
I was irritated by the BBC the other day going on and on implying that Brexiteers were hypocrites for criticising Obama’s intervention in the referendum and not Trump’s comment on the implications for a choice that the government might make on the likelihood of a deal.
And Dan Hodges tried the same line
In my view Trumps comments on Boris Johnson were far more inappropriate
And I agree Trump is an awful man and Obama was fundamentally decent*. I don’t think either of them were/are good Presidents.
* to the extent that anyone who succeeds in Chicago politics can be fundamentally decent
Does anyone in the Conservative Party have the right to keep a tally of the number of Confidence Vote letters Graham Brady has received? If he has already received 48 letters who would know apart from himself ? Could he delay informing others that the 48 total had been reached - or surpassed ? I'm not suggesting anything untoward - just wondering.
It is just Brady. However, he does have the disincentive in play that were he to ignore the 15% rule, it's possible that the MPs who have sent him letters could find out from each other, if they believed that he was not acting when he should. They almost certainly wouldn't know about the 48-MP threshold but if the number got up to 60 or so, it'd be almost certain that MPs would start asking questions among themselves - which would place a huge question mark over the 1922 chairman's head.
The rules governing the timing are:
4. If a number of Members of the House of Commons, in receipt of the Conservative Whip, amounting to not less than 15% of the members of the Parliamentary Party advise the Chairman of the 1922 Committee in writing, either collectively or separately, that they wish there to be a vote of confidence in the Leader, the Chairman, without disclosing the names of any of the signatories, shall inform the Leader of the Party that a vote of confidence is to be held.
5. The Chairman, after consultation with the Leader, shall determine the actual date of such a vote which shall be held as soon as possible in the circumstances prevailing.
Geographically, could be bad too. If Boris is good for London that'll lead to some gains but I could see him turning off a lot of people in red-blue Yorkshire marginals. I also think he's long since reached the zenith of his appeal is now on the downward slope.
Again precisely the opposite in my view I am afraid.
As a staunch Brexiteer and anti Chequers Deal candidate Boris would likely get a bigger pro Tory swing now in the very pro Leave Midlands and North while he might even see a small further swing to Labour in most of London.
Yet as most of the marginals the Tories need to win for a majority are now in the Midlands and North with only Kensington in London (which is probably more pro Boris than the London average) that does not matter so much.
Indeed only one of the top 10 Labour target seats held by the Tories is in London either
And how many times how the U.K. made representations to the US about U.K. citizens in US jails (not least those Guantanamo people)?
Dan Hodges is not a stupid man (or nay be I am too generous?) so I assume he is ignoring the fact that this is absolutely normal and proper diplomatic practice in order to make a political point?
What political point do you think he was trying to make, given his role?
Reuters was unable to determine why the top U.S. official responsible for defending religious freedom would try to intervene with the British government on behalf of an activist who has expressed ant-Islamic views.
I meant Dan Hodges - there seems an unpleasant desire from metropolitan liberals in the last few days to paint Brexiteers as Trump loving hypocrites rather than engaging with their concerns about the Chequers agreement.
This doesn't seem like you Charles. I don't think it's Brexiteers in general but a group of senior ones who want to regain our sovereignty so we can bend over to a dreadful US administration. I'm sure there are plenty of Brexiteers who don't want that either. As for your comparison between TR and Guantanamo...... Perhaps when we jail an American citizen for years without due process in conditions like Guantanamo seriously. I suppose a US government can raise any issues it wants but their choice of this one just shows how crazy the current administraton.
Brendan O'Neill Obama vs Trump - it's up for everyone to decide for themselves. I think most people just take the view that Obama was a decent man trying to do a difficult job whereas Trump is just an awful man.
There is little doubt that Obama is a much better person than Trump is.
Time will tell whether he is a better President.
I don't think time is needed. The tearing away of three year olds from their parents to put them in cages with strangers for months us a serious dark period for America. It will be remembered akin to Japanese internment.
What would you do with the children if their parents are jailed for breaking the law. Clearly tailored placements would be best but the volume makes that difficult
Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.
I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.
Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
Comments
Strangely these people don't seem half as concerned about journos in Russia.
https://twitter.com/13sarahmurphy/status/1018059170120196096
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trump-visit-boris-johnson-fears-fallout-after-president-s-praise-vbsbwt8q2
Thanks DJL and Divvie.
So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.
That leaves a choice of:
Bojo
Davis
Moggster
Priti
Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.
Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.
PART III
LEADERSHIP
10 There shall be a Leader of the Party (referred to in this Constitution as “the Leader”) drawn from those elected to Parliament, who shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members in accordance with the provisions of Schedule 2.
Although it doesn't specify Westminster as being the parliament in question, it does refer elsewhere to the Scottish Parliament in that terminology, so the implicit singular could only realistically mean Westminster.
https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/07.09.18_DOJ.PDF
Exhibit B - Donald Trump
Exhibit C - Viktor Orban
Exhibit D - Jean Claude Juncker.
(Thank you for setting up my daily troll of Corbynistas!)
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1018076729754243072?s=21
Live Aid happened a third of a century ago.
(Well yesterday was the anniversary)
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-may-require-visas-for-british-travelers-post-brexit/
If the EU requires visas for UK nationals travelling to the EU, then there can be no use of this Northern Ireland backstop we have heard so much about. Because there would have to be border checks in Ireland and an end to the Common Travel Area.
That means one of three things:
1) The EU is not, whatever it says, seriously interested in its interpretation of the agreement on Northern Ireland and will not let it be a deal breaker;
2) The EU expects a deal, which will include a substantial amount of cross-border movement and therefore it is looking at theoretical possibilities in case Britain vetoes a deal;
3) The EU is getting ready to throw Ireland under a bus.
Any or all are possible. However, none match Barnier's recent public pronouncements (which is hardly surprising given he's a former French minister of agriculture and Trump would be disqualified from that role because he's much too honest and intelligent).
Besides, the hissy fits you guys have when I point these things out are not only amusing but instructive.
My poor irony meter.
However you never show any balance.
Boris wins , whatever conservatives are now saying about him.
You asked me once whether Corbyn had ever personally attacked his opponents, accusing me of lying.
I sent you a private message with the relevant evidence that he had.
You never responded.
May I gently suggest that your protestations are not wholly convincing?
(I'm assuming that comment was directed to me, although I note you didn't actually address the key point I was making.)
As I said Boris and Javid are the likely last two, Boris maybe as Heseltine and Javid as Major
For the record as a previous member of Unison , I was entitled to a vote and voted for Andy Burnham in the first election and Owen Smith in the second Labour leadership elections.
I'd also like to back Dominic Grieve as next PM in the unlikely event of an emergency government of national unity to defer A50 to avoid going over the cliff of no deal. But I can't find a bet on him. I can bet on Arron Banks or Ann Widdecombe but not Dominic Grieve who is surely more likely.
But Boris is the one. He's most like Trump - a winner.
Generally the only Brits who really like Trump are UKIP voters
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/darius-boris-and-a-blast-from-the-past-1658043.html Darius Guppy.If these allegations caused no problems , hard to think what would.
He is a winner.
In which case, Mrs M could be at the helm for much of the next year - I still don’t believe she will fight the next election - in which case polls today mean very little about her successor. Now that Hunt and Javid occupy the most senior Cabinet roles, both could credibly be sent to members. Or Dominic Raab or Penny Mordaunt. Finally, finally, and more by accident than design, the party can choose between adult contenders.
- um GCHQ much? Why should political opponents have more rights that other citizens?
- he was pretty derogatory about other minorities such as white working class GOP voters: I think it was him (not Clinton) who made the comment about guns and Bibles
- travel bans upheld (finally) by the courts
I’ll give you the last 2 points. Against that with the failure to stand against Syrian use in chemical weapons his legacy is even more toxic
You only had to look at the state of the marching at the RAF 100 business to see how far standards have slipped.
This is all very well known by MPs, if not by the general population or even the general membership, and would all be aired again if Boris was to stand for the leadership. There's more reasons than Michael Gove behind his not standing in 2016.
Maybe many feel the same.
However if he ever became leader , I am sure he will win a majority against Corbyn.
As concerns would have to be put to one side for the greater good.
Brendan O'Neill Obama vs Trump - it's up for everyone to decide for themselves. I think most people just take the view that Obama was a decent man trying to do a difficult job whereas Trump is just an awful man.
Time will tell whether he is a better President.
The nightmare scenario would be if the MPs' selection gets screwed up and we get Boris and Hammond or Rudd sent to the members. It would be like IDS v Ken Clarke all over again - except in government and with Brexit as a live issue.
My personal vote would go to Javid or Gove - people who see Brexit as an opportunity rather than as a threat.
Let's offer a prize of £10 million to anyone devising a cure for Brexit. Or an honour.
Gove for instance would now be trounced by Corbyn, even Mogg would do better against Corbyn than Gove
Pictures of Corbyn addressing 10's and 100's of thousands of people at marches, events and meetings compares with the recent broadcast of TMay addressing a cow in some barn. Do you really think Gove et al hasn't noticed?
With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum which he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons
I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.
The Con to Lab swing in Uxbridge was 6.5%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge_and_South_Ruislip_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
The swing from Con to Lab in London was 6.3%
https://data.london.gov.uk/apps_and_analysis/the-2017-general-election-the-numbers-behind-the-result/
As Chair of the '22, he works for the MPs as a group rather than for the leader and the whips, which is why he is the person in charge of the confidence and election process.
Geographically, could be bad too. If Boris is good for London that'll lead to some gains but I could see him turning off a lot of people in red-blue Yorkshire marginals. I also think he's long since reached the zenith of his appeal is now on the downward slope.
If you took out Labour safe seats Boris almost certainly got a swing lower than the London average against the Tories
You really are a deeply unpleasant man.
To smear an entire group of people as racist is utterly despicable
And Dan Hodges tried the same line
In my view Trumps comments on Boris Johnson were far more inappropriate
And I agree Trump is an awful man and Obama was fundamentally decent*. I don’t think either of them were/are good Presidents.
* to the extent that anyone who succeeds in Chicago politics can be fundamentally decent
The rules governing the timing are:
4. If a number of Members of the House of Commons, in receipt of the Conservative Whip, amounting to not less than 15% of the members of the Parliamentary Party advise the Chairman of the 1922 Committee in writing, either collectively or separately, that they wish there to be a vote of confidence in the Leader, the Chairman, without disclosing the names of any of the signatories, shall inform the Leader of the Party that a vote of confidence is to be held.
5. The Chairman, after consultation with the Leader, shall determine the actual date of such a vote which shall be held as soon as possible in the circumstances prevailing.
As a staunch Brexiteer and anti Chequers Deal candidate Boris would likely get a bigger pro Tory swing now in the very pro Leave Midlands and North while he might even see a small further swing to Labour in most of London.
Yet as most of the marginals the Tories need to win for a majority are now in the Midlands and North with only Kensington in London (which is probably more pro Boris than the London average) that does not matter so much.
Indeed only one of the top 10 Labour target seats held by the Tories is in London either
We can only hope it will get tastier next week.