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  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,903
    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Who's every Star Trek fan's favourite Belgian footballer?

    "Romulan" Lukaku!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    edited July 2018

    Mr. HYUFD, maybe we'll find out. I do think Boris has irreparably damaged his own credibility. He oozes ambition, self-regard seeps from every pore.

    If not Boris then as I have said Davis will be the hard Brexit candidate, probably to face Javid in the membership vote
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    Anyone still in the Cabinet must surely now be regarded as unacceptable to the Moggites.

    So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.

    That leaves a choice of:

    Bojo
    Davis
    Moggster
    Priti

    Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.

    Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.

    If the Moggites can't even conjure up 48 letters there is no chance of them running a slate for the leadership. The Brexiteers are as split as the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet combined on how to go about Brexit. In the leadership ballot, it will be the Home and Foreign Secretaries in the final two, but don't overlook our esteemed Chancellor as a dark horse. He's been the one not shifting his position with the headlines, and reality is converging on what he said at the beginning. Hammond might be the grey man candidate to move on from Brexit -- like John Major and the poll tax.
    Hammond has won all of his battles, being the real author of the White Paper, and even squuezing other departments for the NHS loot.

    I can see him as PM for a brief period, and it would be recognised as a temporary position We could do a lot worse for a caretaker PM.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Mr. HYUFD, I'd be somewhat surprised.

    Geographically, could be bad too. If Boris is good for London that'll lead to some gains but I could see him turning off a lot of people in red-blue Yorkshire marginals. I also think he's long since reached the zenith of his appeal is now on the downward slope.

    Have often wondered about that too.
    What appears to be an effortless educated urbane charm in London, may appear to be an over-entitled chancer's bluster elsewhere.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.

    With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum afte he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons

    Fake news.

    The Con to Lab swing in Uxbridge was 6.5%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge_and_South_Ruislip_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    The swing from Con to Lab in London was 6.3%

    https://data.london.gov.uk/apps_and_analysis/the-2017-general-election-the-numbers-behind-the-result/
    Almost identical then, IDS and Justine Greening, David Burrowes and Jane Ellison all saw bigger swings against them than Boris regardless of whether they were Leave or Remain
    HYUFD admits lying about polling data shock.
    There was likely less of a swing against the Tories in Labour safe seats in London than in seats the Tories currently held and Labour held marginals in London.

    If you took out Labour safe seats Boris almost certainly got a swing lower than the London average against the Tories
    Stop digging. You made a claim which was rapidly disproved.

    I know it runs counter to your very soul but do try to learn to show a little humility sometimes.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,654
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Just imagine the reaction from the Churchill busters if Obama had done something like this:
    https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1017922938513879040?s=21

    Did you support the U.K. government lobbying on behalf of British citizens held in Guantanamo?

    Tommy Robinson is not a US citizen.

    Yes but my fundamental point is that the US government can say whatever it likes to the U.K. ambassador in private.

    Of course it can. That was not my point.

    So, once again, you are implying the “Churchill busters” don’t like Obama because of his African heritage?

    You really are a deeply unpleasant man.

    To smear an entire group of people as racist is utterly despicable

    Not if they are racist, it's not. If you accuse a US president of hating Britain because he has African heritage then you are opening yourself up to that accusation - especially when, as the editor of a magazine, you have a track record of publishing pieces by racists and anti-Semites, you use derogatory racial epithets in your own writing and you express admiration for a US president who has put white supremacists in positions of power and responsibility.

    If it's not called out, it's normalised. Especially when people like you seek to explain it all away as if it were the most natural thing in the world.

    I'll keep on saying it: if you believe that Barack Obama hates Britain because he did not have a Churchill bust in the Oval Office, but you are happy to explain away, or even praise, the actions of a US president whose foreign and trade policies are deeply hostile to UK interests, then you have a problem that is not based on political disagreement.

  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
    He’s an old fashioned striker, that’s for sure. Head down, hit the ball and hope... maybe controversial view, but I’m sure that England would have done better with Sterling, Rashford and Lingard on the pitch... instead we saw too many attacking moves at half pace so that Kane could keep up... in the second half on Wednesday he hardly did anything... contrast with a forward like Firminio who works bloody hard when out of possession... hopefully the “‘arry, ‘es one of us” nonsense will have gone by the Euros 2020
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Golden Boot or Top Scorer (they are not quite the same) betting 1/16 Kane, 16/1 Lukaku who is two goals behind. Both players start. I backed Kane at the start and have now hedged on Lukaku. Whoever wins the Golden Boot will be remembered a damn sight longer than which country comes third by winning this pointless game. (Strictly speaking, a French hat-trick in the final could upset the apple cart but that won't happen.)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,816
    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
    True , this England side are like Spurs in many ways.
    Top four .
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.

    Indeed. And moreover, whilst Boris is a Leaver (in as much as he is anything), the votes of SOME Northern Leavers were driven as much by that resentment of the Capital, and it's political class ignoring them, as of Brussels.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Rexel56 said:

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
    He’s an old fashioned striker, that’s for sure. Head down, hit the ball and hope... maybe controversial view, but I’m sure that England would have done better with Sterling, Rashford and Lingard on the pitch... instead we saw too many attacking moves at half pace so that Kane could keep up... in the second half on Wednesday he hardly did anything... contrast with a forward like Firminio who works bloody hard when out of possession... hopefully the “‘arry, ‘es one of us” nonsense will have gone by the Euros 2020
    England has no world-class midfielders (and who is coming through in the two years before the Euros in 2020?) so it is not really clear how Kane would get the service. We've also never replaced Beckham whose kicking accuracy provided the fastest means of getting the ball from our own half into the box. Now we are relying on Pickford to do it, and passing back to the goalkeeper is rarely a good idea.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,654

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.

    Sterling could well have missed it given his previous efforts in previous games! He also looked very offside to me - he was level with Kane with only the Croatian keeper between them both and the net.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,654
    Yorkcity said:

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
    True , this England side are like Spurs in many ways.
    Top four .

    Hopefully top three - like Spurs for the last three seasons.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.


    Could it be to give people a chance of playing in the World Cup?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,654

    Rexel56 said:

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
    He’s an old fashioned striker, that’s for sure. Head down, hit the ball and hope... maybe controversial view, but I’m sure that England would have done better with Sterling, Rashford and Lingard on the pitch... instead we saw too many attacking moves at half pace so that Kane could keep up... in the second half on Wednesday he hardly did anything... contrast with a forward like Firminio who works bloody hard when out of possession... hopefully the “‘arry, ‘es one of us” nonsense will have gone by the Euros 2020
    England has no world-class midfielders (and who is coming through in the two years before the Euros in 2020?) so it is not really clear how Kane would get the service. We've also never replaced Beckham whose kicking accuracy provided the fastest means of getting the ball from our own half into the box. Now we are relying on Pickford to do it, and passing back to the goalkeeper is rarely a good idea.

    Kane has Eriksen at Spurs, he also has Dele playing in a very different position, because Spurs have two defensive midfielders that free the others up to play in more forward positions.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, maybe we'll find out. I do think Boris has irreparably damaged his own credibility. He oozes ambition, self-regard seeps from every pore.

    If not Boris then as I have said Davis will be the hard Brexit candidate, probably to face Javid in the membership vote
    Davis has said he doesn’t want the job.

    Can I make one gentle suggestion: it might be worthwhile trying to be less definitive in your posting style. These things aren’t facts.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.
    True , this England side are like Spurs in many ways.
    Top four .

    Hopefully top three - like Spurs for the last three seasons.

    Yes , hope so .Congratulations on your business news .All the best for the future SO.
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    Rexel56 said:

    Slightly odd choices for England team...alli and lingard dropped, but no rashford, Walker also dropped for Phil Jones, trippier still playing despite that injury in semi final.

    I Presumed Alexander-Arnold and rashford would definitely get a start today. While Kyle walker has been great in defence and Phil Jones is very poor while Belgium still playing lakuku and hazard so they are going to be really busy.

    Disappointed that Kane hasn’t paid the price for denying England a place in the final. If only he had looked up and seen Sterling rather than fixating on his own, penalty-kick fuelled Golden Boot ambition...
    Nah. He's a striker. He was absolutely right to go for goal when one-on-one with the keeper so close to goal. His failure was not sticking the ball in the net.

    Sterling could well have missed it given his previous efforts in previous games! He also looked very offside to me - he was level with Kane with only the Croatian keeper between them both and the net.

    He was 100% onside...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Just imagine the reaction from the Churchill busters if Obama had done something like this:
    https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1017922938513879040?s=21

    Did you support the U.K. government lobbying on behalf of British citizens held in Guantanamo?

    Tommy Robinson is not a US citizen.

    Yes but my fundamental point is that the US government can say whatever it likes to the U.K. ambassador in private.

    Of course it can. That was not my point.

    So, once again, you are implying the “Churchill busters” don’t like Obama because of his African heritage?

    You really are a deeply unpleasant man.

    To smear an entire group of people as racist is utterly despicable

    Not if they are racist, it's not. If you accuse a US president of hating Britain because he has African heritage then you are opening yourself up to that accusation - especially when, as the editor of a magazine, you have a track record of publishing pieces by racists and anti-Semites, you use derogatory racial epithets in your own writing and you express admiration for a US president who has put white supremacists in positions of power and responsibility.

    If it's not called out, it's normalised. Especially when people like you seek to explain it all away as if it were the most natural thing in the world.

    I'll keep on saying it: if you believe that Barack Obama hates Britain because he did not have a Churchill bust in the Oval Office, but you are happy to explain away, or even praise, the actions of a US president whose foreign and trade policies are deeply hostile to UK interests, then you have a problem that is not based on political disagreement.

    Well I’m a “Churchill buster” and I’m not racist. Obama didn’t hate Britain but he didn’t have an instinctive feel for it (reflecting growing up in Hawaii rather than anything else I think). Return the bust was thoughtless and an error rather than anything worse.



  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,857
    It's rather strange that Obama's decision to support the British government is put down to his anti-British colonial history.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, maybe we'll find out. I do think Boris has irreparably damaged his own credibility. He oozes ambition, self-regard seeps from every pore.

    If not Boris then as I have said Davis will be the hard Brexit candidate, probably to face Javid in the membership vote
    Davis has said he doesn’t want the job.

    Can I make one gentle suggestion: it might be worthwhile trying to be less definitive in your posting style. These things aren’t facts.
    For now, if Boris or Mogg fall by the wayside he would be the default anti Chequers deal candidate.

    I also never said this is 100% certain as obviously nobody can be that certain of anything but half of the point of this site is to say what we feel, believe and predict is likely to happen
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.

    Indeed. And moreover, whilst Boris is a Leaver (in as much as he is anything), the votes of SOME Northern Leavers were driven as much by that resentment of the Capital, and it's political class ignoring them, as of Brussels.
    Most of which in seats which are so safe Labour the Tories would never win them anyway.

    It is Leave voting Labour and Tory held marginals in the North and Midlands Boris would be targeting
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    If Raheem were to visit a house of disrepute.

    One would imagine it would be a quiet evening in for the female residents
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    The swing against Boris in Uxbridge was actually slightly less than the London average against the Tories.

    With 2 London Mayoral election wins and the victory of the Leave campaign in the EU Referendum afte he fronted, Boris has the most successful electoral record of any MP in the Commons

    Fake news.

    The Con to Lab swing in Uxbridge was 6.5%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge_and_South_Ruislip_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    The swing from Con to Lab in London was 6.3%

    https://data.london.gov.uk/apps_and_analysis/the-2017-general-election-the-numbers-behind-the-result/
    Almost identical then, IDS and Justine Greening, David Burrowes and Jane Ellison all saw bigger swings against them than Boris regardless of whether they were Leave or Remain
    HYUFD admits lying about polling data shock.
    There was likely less of a swing against the Tories in Labour safe seats in London than in seats the Tories currently held and Labour held marginals in London.

    If you took out Labour safe seats Boris almost certainly got a swing lower than the London average against the Tories
    Stop digging. You made a claim which was rapidly disproved.

    I know it runs counter to your very soul but do try to learn to show a little humility sometimes.
    I was about to say something rather rude to you but I have got better things to do than waste my time scraping and bowing to you
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,857
    Obama - tells us the truth about the difficulty in doing (mutually acceptable) trade deals. Anti-British.

    Trump - wants to screw us over with an immediate trade deal whilst we're desperate. Pro-British.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.

    Indeed. And moreover, whilst Boris is a Leaver (in as much as he is anything), the votes of SOME Northern Leavers were driven as much by that resentment of the Capital, and it's political class ignoring them, as of Brussels.
    Most of which in seats which are so safe Labour the Tories would never win them anyway.

    It is Leave voting Labour and Tory held marginals in the North and Midlands Boris would be targeting
    No. Those are precisely the kinds of seats I am speaking of. They are the ones Mr Dancer originally mentioned to begin this conversation.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    edited July 2018
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.

    Indeed. And moreover, whilst Boris is a Leaver (in as much as he is anything), the votes of SOME Northern Leavers were driven as much by that resentment of the Capital, and it's political class ignoring them, as of Brussels.
    Most of which in seats which are so safe Labour the Tories would never win them anyway.

    It is Leave voting Labour and Tory held marginals in the North and Midlands Boris would be targeting
    No. Those are precisely the kinds of seats I am speaking of. They are the ones Mr Dancer originally mentioned to begin this conversation.

    It is those seats which are precisely the ones so annoyed by the Chequers Deal as they are all pro Leave and had high UKIP votes in 2015.

    If not Boris, then another equally anti Chequers Deal candidate like Mogg or Davis would be the candidate most likely to win them.

    The South and London though being more pro Remain would be more likely to favour May staying on or a pro Chequers Deal candidate like Javid (though Javid might still be tough enough on replacing FOM to win Leave voting marginals in the North and Midlands despite backing the Chequers Deal)
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Roger said:

    OchEye said:

    Roger said:

    Yorkcity said:

    I am not a Corbyn supporter.

    However you never show any balance.

    Interesting. I can't think of any serious Tory leadership candidates that Corbyn could defeat except for Johnson. After the last few years the electorate above all will want a safe pair of hands. Something that neither Corbyn nor Johnson offer. I'd say even Govey has a better chance.
    Let me think now, weren't you one of those confidently predicting TMay was going to whitewash the Labour Party and destroy Corbyn in 2017 GE? Nearly every one of the present Tory contenders has realised that Corbyn in electioneering mode, with the inbuilt bias of the TV media negated for the run up would destroy their party. Corbyn has played it brilliantly, the Tories and the right wing press cannot attack him over Brexit, which would have course binded the Tories together with an attack front against him. Amusingly, both the Tory Brexiteers and the Leavers are stuck in attacking each other rather than Labour, in effect, he is causing the Tories to implode.

    Pictures of Corbyn addressing 10's and 100's of thousands of people at marches, events and meetings compares with the recent broadcast of TMay addressing a cow in some barn. Do you really think Gove et al hasn't noticed?
    There isn't a Labour leader since and including Michael Foot that I haven't voted for so I've had plenty of practice at spotting and voting for no-hopers. Corbyn might be the the first one I pass on. Not because of any crap about consorting with terrorists but because he's serially disloyal, a 70's retread and at least as responsible for Brexit as Cameron.
    Perhaps too many in the PLP and leadership of the party have been disloyal to the members, the supporters and the electorate in their search ambition, of red boxes and ministerial cars. As far as I can find out, Corbyn has been loyal to the party, loyal to his core beliefs, just not to those who are only wannabe socialist or even left wing in name only.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Kane was largely at fault for our loss to Croatia and again he has missed England's best chance. And Sterling is all huff and puff and ends up nowhere
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited July 2018
    Charles said:

    FPT: @kle4 I’m curious to know which protests you would NOT count as “virtue signalling”. Seems like any protest would for your definition. That’s a pretty dismissive attitude to people exercising their precious right to free speech.

    Protests about things that you can - in theory - impact?

    So U.K. policies (war, fox hunting, nukes, whatever) all make sense.

    Protesting to say “we don’t like the president of another country” not so much.
    Charles said:

    Freggles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Obama was cool. Trump is a twat. It's as simple as that.
    Things Trump has done that Obama didn't (a few)

    - separate parents from children in order to deter immigrants
    - encourage a foreign power to hack his opponent's emails
    - make a long long list of derogatory personal comments about women and minorities, before and after becoming a candidate and in some cases after taking office
    - blanket travel bans
    - have multiple staff including former Chief of Staff indicted for various crimes
    - threaten NATO stability


    So let's not have this rubbish false equivalence by cherry picking a few similarities.
    - obama separated children and parents when the courts chose that. The only difference is one if degree not principal

    - um GCHQ much? Why should political opponents have more rights that other citizens?

    - he was pretty derogatory about other minorities such as white working class GOP voters: I think it was him (not Clinton) who made the comment about guns and Bibles

    - travel bans upheld (finally) by the courts

    I’ll give you the last 2 points. Against that with the failure to stand against Syrian use in chemical weapons his legacy is even more toxic
    You are seriously equating a factually accurate observation about GOP voters (somewhat tactlessly stated) with “grab ‘em by the pussy” and “Mexico is sending us its rapists”?!

    People like you who promote false equivalences such as this are the true enemies of democracy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.

    Indeed. And moreover, whilst Boris is a Leaver (in as much as he is anything), the votes of SOME Northern Leavers were driven as much by that resentment of the Capital, and it's political class ignoring them, as of Brussels.
    Most of which in seats which are so safe Labour the Tories would never win them anyway.

    It is Leave voting Labour and Tory held marginals in the North and Midlands Boris would be targeting
    No. Those are precisely the kinds of seats I am speaking of. They are the ones Mr Dancer originally mentioned to begin this conversation.

    It is those seats which are precisely the ones so annoyed by the Chequers Deal as they are all pro Leave and had high UKIP votes in 2015.

    If not Boris, then another equally anti Chequers Deal candidate like Mogg or Davis would be the candidate most likely to win them.

    The South and London though being more pro Remain would be more likely to favour May staying on or a pro Chequers Deal candidate like Javid (though Javid might still be tough enough on replacing FOM to win Leave voting marginals in the North and Midlands despite backing the Chequers Deal)
    I think you would be genuinely surprised by the number of people I have met who didn't vote Labour because "Corbyn is from London". I think Boris would suffer even more, being fundamentally more associated with the place.
    Anecdotal evidence I know,
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,898

    Kane was largely at fault for our loss to Croatia and again he has missed England's best chance. And Sterling is all huff and puff and ends up nowhere

    Putting aside the fact this is once again on ITV the stat that only Iran has created fewer chances than England in open play does show that there is a major issue with the forward line. It is disappointing that the question of whether Rashford is the answer to that problem is no closer to an answer.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,903
    Meanwhile, Djokovic beats Nadal 10-8 in the 5th set in their semi-final
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    If Raheem were to visit a house of disrepute.

    One would imagine it would be a quiet evening in for the female residents

    It will be interesting to see if Mahrez displaces him at Man City.

    Is it OK to go back to describing Kane as a mouth breathing Leicester reject yet?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    edited July 2018
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Dean, not only that, there's a starker divide, it feels like, between London and the rest of England (transport funding, views on the EU etc). Having an ex-mayor of London might not play well with parts of the country that think they're getting a raw deal.

    Indeed. And moreover, whilst Boris is a Leaver (in as much as he is anything), the votes of SOME Northern Leavers were driven as much by that resentment of the Capital, and it's political class ignoring them, as of Brussels.
    Most of which in seats which are so safe Labour the Tories would never win them anyway.

    It is Leave voting Labour and Tory held marginals in the North and Midlands Boris would be targeting
    No. Those are precisely the kinds of seats I am speaking of. They are the ones Mr Dancer originally mentioned to begin this conversation.

    It is those seats which are precisely the ones so annoyed by the Chequers Deal as they are all pro Leave and had high UKIP votes in 2015.

    If not Boris, then another equally anti Chequers Deal candidate like Mogg or Davis would be the candidate most likely to win them.

    The South and London though being more pro Remain would be more likely to favour May staying on or a pro Chequers Deal candidate like Javid (though Javid might still be tough enough on replacing FOM to win Leave voting marginals in the North and Midlands despite backing the Chequers Deal)
    I think you would be genuinely surprised by the number of people I have met who didn't vote Labour because "Corbyn is from London". I think Boris would suffer even more, being fundamentally more associated with the place.
    Anecdotal evidence I know,
    In which case the Tories best candidate must surely be the Scarborough born and raised, local Yorkshire comprehensive educated, Bradford University degree obtaining 'non London liberal elite, southern ponce' man of the people star fire place seller in the potteries and our current esteemed Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    Theresa May will be live on Marr tomorrow.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044
    ITV discussing players who miss the birth of their children while on World Cup duty.

    Of more interest, how many have missed the conception?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044

    Theresa May will be live on Marr tomorrow.

    She normally insists on being prerecorded.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,898
    England players whose reputations have been enhanced by the WC

    Pickford.
    Maguire
    Lindgard
    Trippier

    Players whose reputation has fallen

    Sterling
    Walker
    Henderson (arguably)
    Rashford (arguably)

    Just about put Kane on the second list. Take out his hat trick against Panama it’s not been great, probable golden boot notwithstanding.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Foxy said:

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
    Ha! not on ITV we don't. Can't see why England in white and Belgium in red would be an issue. The cynic in me wonders if the kit manufacturers have something to do with it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    DavidL said:

    England players whose reputations have been enhanced by the WC

    Pickford.
    Maguire
    Lindgard
    Trippier

    Players whose reputation has fallen

    Sterling
    Walker
    Henderson (arguably)
    Rashford (arguably)

    Just about put Kane on the second list. Take out his hat trick against Panama it’s not been great, probable golden boot notwithstanding.

    Would add Stones to the enhanced list. Having watched him at Everton, he has always been a talented footballer, but seems to have learned to defend. (Handy skill for a centre-back).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    Kane was largely at fault for our loss to Croatia and again he has missed England's best chance. And Sterling is all huff and puff and ends up nowhere

    Now if only he were called Euro...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,654
    DavidL said:

    Kane was largely at fault for our loss to Croatia and again he has missed England's best chance. And Sterling is all huff and puff and ends up nowhere

    Putting aside the fact this is once again on ITV the stat that only Iran has created fewer chances than England in open play does show that there is a major issue with the forward line. It is disappointing that the question of whether Rashford is the answer to that problem is no closer to an answer.

    We don’t have a midfield player who can thread a pass. That is the biggest problem. And we give the ball away far too easily. That means we don’t play at pace. And all that means we don’t create traces. Kane needs opportunities. Give him those and he’ll score his fair share. Instead, he is having to drop deep where he will hurt no-one.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Hyufd


    It is those seats which are precisely the ones so annoyed by the Chequers Deal as they are all pro Leave and had high UKIP votes in 2015.

    If not Boris, then another equally anti Chequers Deal candidate like Mogg or Davis would be the candidate most likely to win them.

    The South and London though being more pro Remain would be more likely to favour May staying on or a pro Chequers Deal candidate like Javid (though Javid might still be tough enough on replacing FOM to win Leave voting marginals in the North and Midlands despite backing the Chequers Deal)




    You do seem to make a lot of predictions especially that TM is not going to be firm on FOM and excatly how parts of the Country will vote. You also do not take into account the volatile nature of the process.

    As you know I am implacably opposed to Boris getting anywhere near power having disqualified himself with his abuse of Airbus and disgraceful behaviour on the day he resigned. Reports say he did not appreciate Trump' s intervention and realised he has to become more acceptable to his colleagues who represent 75% of the MP's unlike JRM's 25%

    For me it is Chequers with all it's faults or remain

    However if the EU obstructs Chequers the Nation will have a choice of hard Brexit or remain

    I need Brexiteers, including yourself, to explain the measures that you would take to keep our planes flying, stop log jammed ports, guarantee Airbus and other manufactures UK jobs and future investment, and provide Europe wide health care and visa free access. Also how you would defend the currency and stock markers from the inevitable crash and prevent capital flight.

    I would not believe that it has come for a moderate conservative to ask a fellow conservative the questions in the previous paragraph, just the same questions they pose and warn against re Corbyn, and a conservative party that seems to be actively proposing that action.

    If you provide me with a sensible and credible path to posterity I may consider the hard Brexit solution but it would have to convince me with, in the case of slashed corporation tax, how it could get through the HOC

    In the event we remain, indeed on an agreed deal by TM, the markets will soar and investment rocket

    So instead of speculating about TM successors being Brexiteers or not, lets have a grown up conversation on how we take the right decision to to protect jobs and investment. That is my acid test
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    Theresa May will be live on Marr tomorrow.

    Turing test time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,898

    DavidL said:

    Kane was largely at fault for our loss to Croatia and again he has missed England's best chance. And Sterling is all huff and puff and ends up nowhere

    Putting aside the fact this is once again on ITV the stat that only Iran has created fewer chances than England in open play does show that there is a major issue with the forward line. It is disappointing that the question of whether Rashford is the answer to that problem is no closer to an answer.

    We don’t have a midfield player who can thread a pass. That is the biggest problem. And we give the ball away far too easily. That means we don’t play at pace. And all that means we don’t create traces. Kane needs opportunities. Give him those and he’ll score his fair share. Instead, he is having to drop deep where he will hurt no-one.

    I agree with that. Our midfield is by far the weakest part of the team. Loftus Cheek is a possible answer. Would like to see more of him going forward. Not sure who else is coming through though.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    shiney2 said:

    Theresa May will be live on Marr tomorrow.

    Turing test time.
    :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    Foxy said:

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
    Ha! not on ITV we don't. Can't see why England in white and Belgium in red would be an issue. The cynic in me wonders if the kit manufacturers have something to do with it.
    The ITV factor seems to outweigh the shirt colour at present.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757
    Lingard and Rashford on

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Here comes Lingard and Rashford
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Foxy said:

    Anyone still in the Cabinet must surely now be regarded as unacceptable to the Moggites.

    So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.

    That leaves a choice of:

    Bojo
    Davis
    Moggster
    Priti

    Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.

    Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.

    If the Moggites can't even conjure up 48 letters there is no chance of them running a slate for the leadership. The Brexiteers are as split as the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet combined on how to go about Brexit. In the leadership ballot, it will be the Home and Foreign Secretaries in the final two, but don't overlook our esteemed Chancellor as a dark horse. He's been the one not shifting his position with the headlines, and reality is converging on what he said at the beginning. Hammond might be the grey man candidate to move on from Brexit -- like John Major and the poll tax.
    Hammond has won all of his battles, being the real author of the White Paper, and even squuezing other departments for the NHS loot.

    I can see him as PM for a brief period, and it would be recognised as a temporary position We could do a lot worse for a caretaker PM.
    My current plan for the next general election is to vote for whoever would give the Tories the biggest kicking. I'm still holding Brexit against them. But if it is still a live issue - and it may well be - and if the Tories end up more pro-Europe than Labour - and they conceivably could - then I might vote for them if Hammond was leader. He seems pragmatic and competent. As it stands Corbyn would get my vote.

    I've probably just made HYUFD's brain explode, but a lot of us don't vote in ways that make any simple logical sense. The very worst way of guessing how people are going to vote in the next election is looking at the opinion polls.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161

    Foxy said:

    Anyone still in the Cabinet must surely now be regarded as unacceptable to the Moggites.

    So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.

    That leaves a choice of:

    Bojo
    Davis
    Moggster
    Priti

    Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.

    Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.

    If the Moggites can't even conjure up 48 letters there is no chance of them running a slate for the leadership. The Brexiteers are as split as the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet combined on how to go about Brexit. In the leadership ballot, it will be the Home and Foreign Secretaries in the final two, but don't overlook our esteemed Chancellor as a dark horse. He's been the one not shifting his position with the headlines, and reality is converging on what he said at the beginning. Hammond might be the grey man candidate to move on from Brexit -- like John Major and the poll tax.
    Hammond has won all of his battles, being the real author of the White Paper, and even squuezing other departments for the NHS loot.

    I can see him as PM for a brief period, and it would be recognised as a temporary position We could do a lot worse for a caretaker PM.
    My current plan for the next general election is to vote for whoever would give the Tories the biggest kicking. I'm still holding Brexit against them. But if it is still a live issue - and it may well be - and if the Tories end up more pro-Europe than Labour - and they conceivably could - then I might vote for them if Hammond was leader. He seems pragmatic and competent. As it stands Corbyn would get my vote.

    I've probably just made HYUFD's brain explode, but a lot of us don't vote in ways that make any simple logical sense. The very worst way of guessing how people are going to vote in the next election is looking at the opinion polls.
    Your last paragraph is so true. No one can possibly know, especially with the absolute certainty Hyufd's states so often
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2018
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
    Ha! not on ITV we don't. Can't see why England in white and Belgium in red would be an issue. The cynic in me wonders if the kit manufacturers have something to do with it.
    The ITV factor seems to outweigh the shirt colour at present.


    Is Lukaku the most overrated player in the PL? Unless he's playing a very ordinary defender he just can't cut it. Harry Kane too is pretty limited compared to the best
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
    Ha! not on ITV we don't. Can't see why England in white and Belgium in red would be an issue. The cynic in me wonders if the kit manufacturers have something to do with it.
    The ITV factor seems to outweigh the shirt colour at present.


    Is Lukaku the most overrted player in the PL? Unless he's playing a very ordinary defender he just can't cut it.
    He is poor and I am a United supporter
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,903
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
    Ha! not on ITV we don't. Can't see why England in white and Belgium in red would be an issue. The cynic in me wonders if the kit manufacturers have something to do with it.
    The ITV factor seems to outweigh the shirt colour at present.


    Is there a rational basis for that rather than "coincidence"? Remember we beat Colombia on penalties on ITV.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,903

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We won in 1966 in red :)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Anyone know why both England and Belgium are playing in away colours?

    We lose in white and win in red?
    Ha! not on ITV we don't. Can't see why England in white and Belgium in red would be an issue. The cynic in me wonders if the kit manufacturers have something to do with it.
    The ITV factor seems to outweigh the shirt colour at present.


    Is Lukaku the most overrted player in the PL? Unless he's playing a very ordinary defender he just can't cut it.
    No. But he is extraordinarily inconsistent. My own take is he has only one game a week in him. He seems to need much longer than most to recover from a game.
    But he can be utterly devastating on his day as he was against Brazil.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Kane was largely at fault for our loss to Croatia and again he has missed England's best chance. And Sterling is all huff and puff and ends up nowhere

    Belgium would be 3 up by now if Lukaku didn't have the first touch of an elephant. De Bruyne and Hazard are wasted with him up front, at least he's been taken off now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757
    great save!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Foxy said:

    great save!

    Great move
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Game, set and match
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,898

    Foxy said:

    great save!

    Great move
    Some of the Belgian football is world class. Very good goal. England trying hard but the gap in class is huge.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,161
    Belgium are the second best side but end up third
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    It's rather strange that Obama's decision to support the British government is put down to his anti-British colonial history.

    By whom?

    I do love these sweeping statements.
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Well it might have taken a while, but Hoddle admits what everyone else is thinking... Kane has contributed nothing since the first half against Columbia...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044
    New thread comrades...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,021
    Floater said:

    It's rather strange that Obama's decision to support the British government is put down to his anti-British colonial history.

    By whom?

    I do love these sweeping statements.
    Boris and Nigel to name but two.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212

    Foxy said:

    Anyone still in the Cabinet must surely now be regarded as unacceptable to the Moggites.

    So, Fox, McVey, Gove, Mordaunt all off their Christmas card list.

    That leaves a choice of:

    Bojo
    Davis
    Moggster
    Priti

    Out of that list, I think we are back to #Priti4Leader as their preferred candidate.

    Up against Javid or Hunt in the members' ballot.

    If the Moggites can't even conjure up 48 letters there is no chance of them running a slate for the leadership. The Brexiteers are as split as the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet combined on how to go about Brexit. In the leadership ballot, it will be the Home and Foreign Secretaries in the final two, but don't overlook our esteemed Chancellor as a dark horse. He's been the one not shifting his position with the headlines, and reality is converging on what he said at the beginning. Hammond might be the grey man candidate to move on from Brexit -- like John Major and the poll tax.
    Hammond has won all of his battles, being the real author of the White Paper, and even squuezing other departments for the NHS loot.

    I can see him as PM for a brief period, and it would be recognised as a temporary position We could do a lot worse for a caretaker PM.
    My current plan for the next general election is to vote for whoever would give the Tories the biggest kicking. I'm still holding Brexit against them. But if it is still a live issue - and it may well be - and if the Tories end up more pro-Europe than Labour - and they conceivably could - then I might vote for them if Hammond was leader. He seems pragmatic and competent. As it stands Corbyn would get my vote.

    I've probably just made HYUFD's brain explode, but a lot of us don't vote in ways that make any simple logical sense. The very worst way of guessing how people are going to vote in the next election is looking at the opinion polls.
    No as opinion polls in 1990 correctly predicted Major would do better than Thatcher against Heseltine, Blair would be best for Labour in 1994, Cameron best for the Tories in 2005.

    The fact the only Tory who would make you consider voting Tory rather than Corbyn is Hammond means it is exactly the reverse for most Tories, as confirmed by Survation last summer which found Hammond would do worse against Corbyn than any other contender
This discussion has been closed.