"Betrayed Brexit voters will give up on politics Melanie Phillips The fate of Davis, Johnson or the Tory party matters less than the damage done to democracy"
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
Question: does any Tory leadership candidate hard Brexiter have the votes of over a third of the Tory MPs?
I have seen an analysis that there are 125 members and ex members of the ERG. 80 turned up to the meeting last night, the rest are or were in government. Look at the names resigning Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley, not known as hard core leavers, in fact completely off the leaver radar before showing their colours.
It's not as simple as that. There are members of the ERG who campaigned on Leave, and who campaigned for EFTA/EEA. They are probably reasonably happy with the current May position.
I can well believe that some could or would have been in the same vein as Carswell seemed to, but won't have the ability or steel to defend it to the hilt now some big names have trashed it. If the EU tries for too much while ironing out the details such people, holding off defending it even as they are not that mad, will have been wise, as opinion turns even more against it.
Yeah but it's not only hardline Brexiteers who might be sending letters in. They'll also be enemies of Theresa. And the associates of Theresa's enemies,
I still think allies of hers should send some in too, just so they get this fight over and done with.
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
My thoughts almost exactly. I suspect we are not the only two.
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
Which is ironic, because the extreme, continuous and contemptuous attempts by remainers over the last couple of years to thwart democracy by any means necessary have certainly tested my patience. To the point where I'm inclined to think it's hard Brexit at any cost.
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
My thoughts almost exactly. I suspect we are not the only two.
I’d argue that supply and demand for rental housing in London is a related but separate market to supply and demand for property to purchase, which goes some way to explaining why yields are so low at the moment.
Also a good point at the end about a price correction not necessarily a good thing for everyone, if prices start dropping appreciably then lenders will be much more cautious on loan-to-value ratios which is bad news for the first time buyer.
Not sure a conclusion that Hunt's best chance comes with a no deal Brexit is a positive message though
Hunt could be a unifying figure acceptable to Remainers and Leavers. But that will depend on the form that Brexit takes. If we have a “Brexit In Name Only” then there will be a strong demand from Conservatives for someone willing to “finish the job” — such as Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, or Jacob Rees-Mogg. If on the other hand we end up with a “no deal” Brexit then Hunt would be rather better placed, putting himself forward as the man with the energy and ability to lead us through the new challenges.
Question: does any Tory leadership candidate hard Brexiter have the votes of over a third of the Tory MPs?
I have seen an analysis that there are 125 members and ex members of the ERG. 80 turned up to the meeting last night, the rest are or were in government. Look at the names resigning Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley, not known as hard core leavers, in fact completely off the leaver radar before showing their colours.
It's not as simple as that. There are members of the ERG who campaigned on Leave, and who campaigned for EFTA/EEA. They are probably reasonably happy with the current May position.
I can well believe that some could or would have been in the same vein as Carswell seemed to, but won't have the ability or steel to defend it to the hilt now some big names have trashed it. If the EU tries for too much while ironing out the details such people, holding off defending it even as they are not that mad, will have been wise, as opinion turns even more against it.
Yeah but it's not only hardline Brexiteers who might be sending letters in. They'll also be enemies of Theresa. And the associates of Theresa's enemies,
I still think allies of hers should send some in too, just so they get this fight over and done with.
I’m with Dan Hannan, rcs1000, MaxPB and otihers in thinking that the Chequers plan just about works, but it won’t take much watering down to cause a large swing against it from Conservatives. The EU reaction is now crucial to Mrs May’s survival.
Allies sending in letters is playing with fire, she wouldn’t be in control of the process and anything could happen.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Thanks the video is a very interesting view, yes I watched it through to the end. I would comment, yes we can do very clever things with video, but I found the backdrops, and the constant changes, very clever, and hard production work, but very distracting from the message. A correction must be due, some buyers will suffer.
Robert, really interesting analysis. I mentioned on Youtube that I think you can add double incomes as a contributory factor to rising house prices. I also think you can add extending the length of mortgages. I think there were stats showing that the average length of a mortgage was around 25 years pre-2008. Since then I think it's increased to over 30 years.
I am very bearish on London and Southeast house prices. But I thought might fallen in 2011-12, and I was wrong. So if you're around, my questions are:
1. Did you expect prices to rise as they did from 2011 to now? 2. If not, what makes you think that things are going to change in the next few years?
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
But the main points have been established. Unless it is going to be changed, we now have to wait for the EUs response.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Never had you down as a bitter Scot, David!
Not bitter at all and I will be cheering England all the way but the quality of these 2 teams is breathtaking.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
The UK will have to serve up the White Paper before the ball can be in the EU's court - and it's always possible it could hit the net or be out.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Never had you down as a bitter Scot, David!
Not bitter at all and I will be cheering England all the way but the quality of these 2 teams is breathtaking.
Even great teams have off days and get unlucky! Liverpool are not the second best team in Europe - they aren't even the second best team in England - but still managed to be Champion's League finalists.
Not the same format of course, but there's hope for England/Croatia yet.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
The UK will have to serve up the White Paper before the ball can be in the EU's court - and it's always possible it could hit the net or be out.
I find it hard to believe there will be substantive changes on what was trailed at chequers.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
The UK will have to serve up the White Paper before the ball can be in the EU's court - and it's always possible it could hit the net or be out.
Ah, that's where the metaphor is so brilliant, do you see? Not so - the EU has to respond, either to say yes, no, needs work etc. Therefore the ball is in, it may just be a godawful service delivery and be smashed away, but it is at least over the net.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Never had you down as a bitter Scot, David!
Not bitter at all and I will be cheering England all the way but the quality of these 2 teams is breathtaking.
Even great teams have off days and get unlucky! Liverpool are not the second best team in Europe - they aren't even the second best team in England - but still managed to be Champion's League finalists.
Not the same format of course, but there's hope for England/Croatia yet.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Never had you down as a bitter Scot, David!
Not bitter at all and I will be cheering England all the way but the quality of these 2 teams is breathtaking.
Even great teams have off days and get unlucky! Liverpool are not the second best team in Europe - they aren't even the second best team in England - but still managed to be Champion's League finalists.
Not the same format of course, but there's hope for England/Croatia yet.
That’s why we watch. Anything is possible in a one off game but these teams are just superb.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Never had you down as a bitter Scot, David!
Not bitter at all and I will be cheering England all the way but the quality of these 2 teams is breathtaking.
I think anyone can win in the final. Look at all of those FA Cup finals that haven't been on script. That Arsenal robbery against United was one for the history books. If England make it then we've got a chance against anyone.
Sorry WC final started. The winner of this gets a yellow jersey parade down the Champs Eleysee to win the title on Sunday but this is what it is all about.
Never had you down as a bitter Scot, David!
Not bitter at all and I will be cheering England all the way but the quality of these 2 teams is breathtaking.
I think anyone can win in the final. Look at all of those FA Cup finals that haven't been on script. That Arsenal robbery against United was one for the history books. If England make it then we've got a chance against anyone.
I remember saying before the penalties in 2005 that we'd win because we had a German in goal. A very satisfying win.
Something like 2/3 of these players play in the EPL. We are indeed fortunate.
Four Spurs player on the pitch!
I think we've had an incredible tournament club wise.
True. But I have looked at the rampaging Lukaku, the forward runs of Pogba, the brilliance of Lingard and the power of Fellaini and I wonder if Mourinho really got the best out of that squad last year. His cautious, percentage football is not only boring, it’s old fashioned.
Lol, one of my mates from Switzerland (a German) is saying that England have to start winning properly or people won't recognise them as true champions. Personally, I don't care how we win, set piece, last minute penalty, dodgy offside goal. I'll take anything!
Lol, one of my mates from Switzerland (a German) is saying that England have to start winning properly or people won't recognise them as true champions. Personally, I don't care how we win, set piece, last minute penalty, dodgy offside goal. I'll take anything!
He's probably still sore at the Soviet linesman calling the third goal "for Stalingrad".
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
Lol, one of my mates from Switzerland (a German) is saying that England have to start winning properly or people won't recognise them as true champions. Personally, I don't care how we win, set piece, last minute penalty, dodgy offside goal. I'll take anything!
England’s win against Sweden was positively Germanic. By far their best performance of the WC to date.
Lol, one of my mates from Switzerland (a German) is saying that England have to start winning properly or people won't recognise them as true champions. Personally, I don't care how we win, set piece, last minute penalty, dodgy offside goal. I'll take anything!
England’s win against Sweden was positively Germanic. By far their best performance of the WC to date.
He's replied to the chorus of similar replies saying that Sweden don't count because they're shit (neither do Panama). He's got to be the most bitter German fan that I know. The rest of them in that group are much more supportive of England winning.
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
Which is ironic, because the extreme, continuous and contemptuous attempts by remainers over the last couple of years to thwart democracy by any means necessary have certainly tested my patience. To the point where I'm inclined to think it's hard Brexit at any cost.
I would much prefer a genuine undocking followed by a slow change of course.
But with so many pretences, subterfuges, subtleties and outright lies still in play, at least with a hard Brexit we will know we have definitely, actually left.
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
Former England batsman Geoffrey Boycott is recovering at home after quadruple heart bypass surgery, his family have said. The 77-year-old, now a commentator for the BBC's Test Match Special, spent 10 days in hospital in Leeds after having the operation on 27 June.
I feel sorry for the poor doctors and nurses who had to put up with him for 10 days telling him what they were doing wrong and how his mum could have done it better.
I’d argue that supply and demand for rental housing in London is a related but separate market to supply and demand for property to purchase, which goes some way to explaining why yields are so low at the moment.
Also a good point at the end about a price correction not necessarily a good thing for everyone, if prices start dropping appreciably then lenders will be much more cautious on loan-to-value ratios which is bad news for the first time buyer.
The topics are really interesting but unfortunately I just can't decipher very fast speech. All I can actually understand is the last few words before a slight gap.
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
My thoughts almost exactly. I suspect we are not the only two.
I am with you both
Me too. I find myself agreeing with you practically all the time these days BiG G (other than on football where I am of the blue Manchester persuasion!) I think a lot of remainers who have been hitherto happy to just honour the referendum result are not going to sit back while the likes of Mogg try to push the country in a very economically damaging exit.
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
My thoughts almost exactly. I suspect we are not the only two.
I am with you both
Me too. I find myself agreeing with you practically all the time these days BiG G (other than on football where I am of the blue Manchester persuasion!) I think a lot of remainers who have been hitherto happy to just honour the referendum result are not going to sit back while the likes of Mogg try to push the country in a very economically damaging exit.
My Father supported both as he said they were representing Manchester
Something like 2/3 of these players play in the EPL. We are indeed fortunate.
Four Spurs player on the pitch!
I think we've had an incredible tournament club wise.
True. But I have looked at the rampaging Lukaku, the forward runs of Pogba, the brilliance of Lingard and the power of Fellaini and I wonder if Mourinho really got the best out of that squad last year. His cautious, percentage football is not only boring, it’s old fashioned.
Absolutely. The romantic in me would like to see Giggs given the chance to manage the club.
France ahead....beligum not playing anything like they did against Brazil.
Lukaku looks like a donkey
Against Brazil he was unplayable....tonight he is unplayable in a different respect, but Belgium didn't take ogiri so they don't have a like for like replacement.
Like I said the other day my property value in pretty little Ystrad Mynach had risen £14,500 since I bought it in April 2005. It's a 4-bed detached on a lovely, quiet new'ish (1999) estate.
The house sold for £99,000 as a new-build. So it doubled in value over its first six years.
Since then its modest rise in value has been sensible and healthy. It appears our local housing market rectified itself well.
Former England batsman Geoffrey Boycott is recovering at home after quadruple heart bypass surgery, his family have said. The 77-year-old, now a commentator for the BBC's Test Match Special, spent 10 days in hospital in Leeds after having the operation on 27 June.
I feel sorry for the poor doctors and nurses who had to put up with him for 10 days telling him what they were doing wrong and how his mum could have done it better.
Not to mention the multiple, if obscure, references to sticks of ruhbarb.
I went through all of this a few months ago. I basically switched everything off, especially the stuff that constantly looks for updates and it made a big difference to battery life. I'm also refusing to install any more updates.
France ahead....beligum not playing anything like they did against Brazil.
Lukaku looks like a donkey
Unplayable one game, anonymous the next. We Evertonians got used to it. There was surprisingly little dissent when he went. (Cue a hat-trick of course).
France could well win this world cup after only getting out of first gear in one game. Again tonight they are just comfortably winning without having to really bust a gut.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
The UK will have to serve up the White Paper before the ball can be in the EU's court - and it's always possible it could hit the net or be out.
Why is the EU waiting for the White Paper before responding, this time? On previous occasions they've rubbished what was said only moments after Mrs May stopped speaking.
London as a global city is competing more with New York, Paris, LA and Tokyo in terms of property buyer and hence price than UK regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
The UK will have to serve up the White Paper before the ball can be in the EU's court - and it's always possible it could hit the net or be out.
Why is the EU waiting for the White Paper before responding, this time? On previous occasions they've rubbished what was said only moments after Mrs May stopped speaking.
Barnier has said today the deal is 80% agreed and expects agreement in full by the October summit
I think if you look at the four semi finalists, the quality of the premier league is showing through with abundance. I think it's only Croatia where the largest group doesn't play in the league.
I think if you look at the four semi finalists, the quality of the premier league is showing through with abundance. I think it's only Croatia where the largest group doesn't play in the league.
One of the most amazing stats, 50 players at the world cup are french...Paris born players alone could put out a world class team that could probably beat everybody else.
All this “drip drip” of resignations will do is demonstrate to voters that the Tories are a bunch of in-fighting self indulgent navel gazers. But I guess it’s easier than actually coming up with an alternative plan....
In fairness various of those resigning may have an alternative plan. What they don't necessarily have is the same plan, and what they definitely don't have is the support within the parliamentary party or parliament generally to carry out said plans.
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
The ball is not in the EU’s court.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
You object to people using metaphors? I think that's sanctimonious nonsense, and I certainly won't stop doing it, and in fact will use them more if people get uppity about people making less than literal comparisons in aid of explanation (Shockingly, I am aware Brexit is not a game of Tennis), or indeed simply make use of standard expressions. You've never utilised an expression which was not a literal comparison? Pull the other one.
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
The UK will have to serve up the White Paper before the ball can be in the EU's court - and it's always possible it could hit the net or be out.
Why is the EU waiting for the White Paper before responding, this time? On previous occasions they've rubbished what was said only moments after Mrs May stopped speaking.
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
London as a global city is competing more with New York, Paris, LA and Tokyo in terms of property buyer and hence price than UK regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
All I've heard is the EU asking us what we want. Now we have said.
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
No, dixiedean is right. The Chequers proposal is the first time we've presented a complete outline of the future relationship we want. The first time we've specified that we want an Association Agreement and what we want to be included in it.
One point you don’t factor in when considering regional premia is the relative attractiveness.
If you consider that London has become a more attractive place relative to the West Midlands to live over the last 10 years (eg better restaurants, better pollution, fewer Leave voters, whatever) then there is no reason why the relative premise should remain constant
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
It is no bluff from May, that much is clear. Whether the EU was bluffing on how tough its red lines were remains to be seen, but it would be far from surprising if they said they could not go with our proposal, even if they could work with it a little bit. Heroic wording fudges conceivable could get them there, but might still be too much more for May to make work given her position, as so many would understandably be unsatisfied (and not only the unsatisfiable).
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
It is no bluff from May, that much is clear. Whether the EU was bluffing on how tough its red lines were remains to be seen, but it would be far from surprising if they said they could not go with our proposal, even if they could work with it a little bit. Heroic wording fudges conceivable could get them there, but might still be too much more for May to make work given her position, as so many would understandably be unsatisfied (and not only the unsatisfiable).
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
It is no bluff from May, that much is clear. Whether the EU was bluffing on how tough its red lines were remains to be seen, but it would be far from surprising if they said they could not go with our proposal, even if they could work with it a little bit. Heroic wording fudges conceivable could get them there, but might still be too much more for May to make work given her position, as so many would understandably be unsatisfied (and not only the unsatisfiable).
One clear sign that May is serious (and the reason that some Brexiteers are worried) is that this proposal is pre-fudged to allow the EU to punt some issues into the future negotiations once we've left.
I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.
What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?
Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.
Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?
According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
It is no bluff from May, that much is clear. Whether the EU was bluffing on how tough its red lines were remains to be seen, but it would be far from surprising if they said they could not go with our proposal, even if they could work with it a little bit. Heroic wording fudges conceivable could get them there, but might still be too much more for May to make work given her position, as so many would understandably be unsatisfied (and not only the unsatisfiable).
The EU will probably say May has done enough for the transition period deal but not enough for a FTA which will have to be worked on during the transition which they will probably extend and extend keeping us in the EU in most respects without any power to decide anything
Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?
No.
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
It is no bluff from May, that much is clear. Whether the EU was bluffing on how tough its red lines were remains to be seen, but it would be far from surprising if they said they could not go with our proposal, even if they could work with it a little bit. Heroic wording fudges conceivable could get them there, but might still be too much more for May to make work given her position, as so many would understandably be unsatisfied (and not only the unsatisfiable).
And then it is to a no deal, sadly
Seems likely. I'm not sure pre-fudging our offer as william suggests has happened gets it over the line, as even if 80% is agreed, the last 20% is always the most significant I'd wager, and surely the EU will feel the need to demand more.
London as a global city is competing more with New York, Paris, LA and Tokyo in terms of property buyer and hence price than UK regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh
Well yes, I addressed that in the video
Sorry have been at Wimbledon watching the doubles so will watch it later, sure it was great!
Comments
Melanie Phillips
The fate of Davis, Johnson or the Tory party matters less than the damage done to democracy"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/betrayed-brexit-voters-will-give-up-on-politics-jzs9z2bxk
My longstanding position of the last 2 years (which I have stuck to firmly on this site and elsewhere), that though I am a Remainer I accept the referendum result, has started to seriously crumble over the last few days as I watch the antics of the Brexiteers who won but aren't willing to bank their victory and keep wanting to push for ever crazier stuff.
I'm not yet ready to reverse my acceptance of the democratic result - but the extreme Brexiteers are certainly testing my patience now.
Belgium 3.15
Draw 3.15
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.145305829
Now, if they cannot support the nearest thing that exists to a plan which does carry that support then they should resign, and they have to decide if they can live with a plan they cannot support possible going ahead. The MPs might decide they can on the anti-Corbyn principle of people being willing to moan endlessly about something but still back it, but some of their voters won't.
In the meantime the ball is in the EU's court, and they will still assume they can get more.
I’d argue that supply and demand for rental housing in London is a related but separate market to supply and demand for property to purchase, which goes some way to explaining why yields are so low at the moment.
Also a good point at the end about a price correction not necessarily a good thing for everyone, if prices start dropping appreciably then lenders will be much more cautious on loan-to-value ratios which is bad news for the first time buyer.
https://capx.co/could-jeremy-hunt-dance-his-way-to-the-top-job/
Not sure a conclusion that Hunt's best chance comes with a no deal Brexit is a positive message though
Hunt could be a unifying figure acceptable to Remainers and Leavers. But that will depend on the form that Brexit takes. If we have a “Brexit In Name Only” then there will be a strong demand from Conservatives for someone willing to “finish the job” — such as Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, or Jacob Rees-Mogg. If on the other hand we end up with a “no deal” Brexit then Hunt would be rather better placed, putting himself forward as the man with the energy and ability to lead us through the new challenges.
Allies sending in letters is playing with fire, she wouldn’t be in control of the process and anything could happen.
Firstly the White Paper has not yet been published.
Secondly Brexit is not like a game of tennis.
I would comment, yes we can do very clever things with video, but I found the backdrops, and the constant changes, very clever, and hard production work, but very distracting from the message.
A correction must be due, some buyers will suffer.
I am very bearish on London and Southeast house prices. But I thought might fallen in 2011-12, and I was wrong. So if you're around, my questions are:
1. Did you expect prices to rise as they did from 2011 to now?
2. If not, what makes you think that things are going to change in the next few years?
And if you merely object to the suitability of the metaphor and not the use of metaphor itself, I would content it is in their court because no matter what the White Paper contains, the EU's response will be key. The ball is over the net, though how it reacts when it bounces mean the details are not certain yet.
Moreover, even if it is not a great comparison, it was just an expression and the point was clear - what we do next is heavily reliant on what they do next.
Not the same format of course, but there's hope for England/Croatia yet.
I think we've had an incredible tournament club wise.
But with so many pretences, subterfuges, subtleties and outright lies still in play, at least with a hard Brexit we will know we have definitely, actually left.
Good evening, everyone.
I feel sorry for the poor doctors and nurses who had to put up with him for 10 days telling him what they were doing wrong and how his mum could have done it better.
https://m.slashdot.org/story/343198
They had the deck stacked in their favour and called in favours before the referendum to get people to tell us how bad it would be.
They even got Obama to say back of the queue
So then we have May saying she listens to result and Brexit means Brexit
Followed by no preparations for no deal
A constant backsliding as to our position and red lines
Committing to give them the money for basically nothing
undermining her colleagues whose job it was to negotiate
Signing up to arrangements that basically box us in
Getting government ministers to get big companies come out with yet more scare stories
(sounds familiar right, they did that before the vote)
It looks like freedom of movement will not end
No wonder people despise politicians
Like I said the other day my property value in pretty little Ystrad Mynach had risen £14,500 since I bought it in April 2005. It's a 4-bed detached on a lovely, quiet new'ish (1999) estate.
The house sold for £99,000 as a new-build. So it doubled in value over its first six years.
Since then its modest rise in value has been sensible and healthy. It appears our local housing market rectified itself well.
(Cue a hat-trick of course).
They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.
If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
May isn't proposing this on a wing and a prayer.
If you consider that London has become a more attractive place relative to the West Midlands to live over the last 10 years (eg better restaurants, better pollution, fewer Leave voters, whatever) then there is no reason why the relative premise should remain constant
You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me: What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?
Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.
Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?
According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.
Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
But there's always luck.