This is being very poorly covered. Film programme followed by Newsday from Thailand on BBC 24. Recorded interview with Jess Phillips on abortion on R5L. Does no-one do live news? And, no, I won't pay for SKY.
I think we'll find he'll say he didn't wish to disrupt the Prime Minister's meeting, wanted to consider the package with time for mature reflection, etc. But it makes no sense unless he plans to lead a leadership assault. And if he does, will Boris be far behind? We can't complain that this Government is dull, can we?
The obvious replacement is Gove - generally acknowledged to be competent, came out fighting for the package yesterday, but an arch-Brexiteer. It'd be a shame for us environment/animal people as we want him exactly where he is now, but the logic looks compelling.
Gove is dead in the water as next leader, I have not read one positive comment on him from Tory Leavers after his Marr interview this morning, they already consider him Judas. However Gove would be credible as next Brexit Secretary, agreed.
Davis has now jumped alongside Mogg as the prime alternative to May Brexit, Boris now has 48 hours to decide whether to join them or be lumped forever alongside the rest of the Cabinet to live and die with May's Brexit plan
Wow, the World really has changed. I agree with EVERY word of an HYUFD post. Shocked, I tell you!
Perhaps George Osborne is Charles II - the natural successor to Charles I who was dismissed with ease and fled, only he will return years down the line when the system collapses, with the help of a figure who was both an ally then an enemy of his cause.
One problem, Charles IInd was popular and likeable.
Chuka Umunna is probably more likely
Who knows how popular Osborne might be to the dystopic times we may find ourselves in.
Word in the Scottish press is that Salmond is working his old Banff and Buchan constituency to get elected to Westminster, yet again, at the next GE....
That surprises me, Salmond is a busted flush in the Gordon/Banff and Buchan Westminster and Holyrood seats. I was pretty sure that he would be more likely to go Mark Mcdonald's Holyrood Aberdeen Donside seat.
This is being very poorly covered. Film programme followed by Newsday from Thailand on BBC 24. Recorded interview with Jess Phillips on abortion on R5L. Does no-one do live news? And, no, I won't pay for SKY.
Sky news is free.
Not on Freesat.
What ancient moving picture box are you using that doesn’t have freeview digital tuner built in? Nor YouTube app.
This is being very poorly covered. Film programme followed by Newsday from Thailand on BBC 24. Recorded interview with Jess Phillips on abortion on R5L. Does no-one do live news? And, no, I won't pay for SKY.
This is being very poorly covered. Film programme followed by Newsday from Thailand on BBC 24. Recorded interview with Jess Phillips on abortion on R5L. Does no-one do live news? And, no, I won't pay for SKY.
Sky news is free.
Not on Freesat.
What ancient moving picture box are you using that doesn’t have freeview digital tuner built in? Nor YouTube app.
Rural. Hilly. Aerial problems. Loooong story. Although admittedly haven't checked for 5 years. Happy with FreeSat...till now.
If Suella Braverman goes then we truly are without hope.
I assume Braverman and Baker will go with him?
Don't worry, May can appoint Clarke, Grieve and Soubry to staff the Brexit department!
On a serious note, who can she appoint? She will look ridiculous if she appoints Remainers and not sure any Leaver would take the job (or would look utterly ridiculous if they did).
Gove would probably do it (little weasel that he is)
And yet Gove has proved time and again that he is a far more effective and competent Minister than either Boris or David Davis. He should have been given Brexit or FO right at the start of May's premiership.
Number Ten will be trying to spin this for all it's worth to make it seem like Davis is unreasonable.
Personally I think this has all been pre-arranged since last week and they'll be more resignations in the morning (from Boris and maybe others) but we shall see.
Something about the timing of this makes it feel like DD is a defender of the May deal, not an opponent, and something has gone wrong for the PM.
Financially, I hope not, but...
How does that work?
I know DD has been sidelined, basically ineffective, but this resignation is not (all other things being equal) a resignation on the deal, which would have been Friday, but perhaps where we go from here.
This is being very poorly covered. Film programme followed by Newsday from Thailand on BBC 24. Recorded interview with Jess Phillips on abortion on R5L. Does no-one do live news? And, no, I won't pay for SKY.
Sky news is free.
Not on Freesat.
What ancient moving picture box are you using that doesn’t have freeview digital tuner built in? Nor YouTube app.
Rural. Hilly. Aerial problems. Loooong story. Although admittedly haven't checked for 5 years. Happy with FreeSat...till now.
I rarely watch over the air tv these days. Pretty much everything is via t’interweb stream.
Piss poor man-management as much as anything. May has treated Davis with contempt for months. Whether he deserved that or not is beside the point; she should have know it was likely to lead to his resignation, and that his resignation could prove fatal to her premiership. When you're weak, you cannot afford to act like you have a majority of 150.
This is a civil war in the party and will not end well. I have no idea whether TM will surviive but a Brexiteer as PM will see the markets crash and chaos generally, resulting in a move to stay in the EU
This is being very poorly covered. Film programme followed by Newsday from Thailand on BBC 24. Recorded interview with Jess Phillips on abortion on R5L. Does no-one do live news? And, no, I won't pay for SKY.
Sky news is free.
Not on Freesat.
What ancient moving picture box are you using that doesn’t have freeview digital tuner built in? Nor YouTube app.
Rural. Hilly. Aerial problems. Loooong story. Although admittedly haven't checked for 5 years. Happy with FreeSat...till now.
I rarely watch over the air tv these days. Pretty much everything is via t’interweb stream.
You are conversing with a man who ran out of credit on his mobile in April, mind.
Davis will give a “bland, matter of fact critique” of Mrs May’s failings rather than “savage her” but will not shy away from saying that she has not been carrying out Brexit in the right way.
One minister claimed that he did not resign on Friday because he was “dumbfounded” by the approach of other Brexiteers who fell into line behind the prime minister, notably Michael Gove. The environment secretary is likely to be a particular target of some Brexiteer MPs, along with Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary. The resignation may embolden Brexiteer backbenchers with concerns about Mrs May’s leadership.
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
Maybe this time the members might actually get a vote. If May had actually been exposed to a proper campaign for the leadership for 2 months against Leadsom people might have seen what a rubbish campaigner she was before the 2017 election disaster unfolded.
I think May still has support amongst the silent majority of Tory MPs. She should tell the European Research Group (Who don't seem to do much research on Europe) to put up or shut up.
Piss poor man-management as much as anything. May has treated Davis with contempt for months. Whether he deserved that or not is beside the point; she should have know it was likely to lead to his resignation, and that his resignation could prove fatal to her premiership. When you're weak, you cannot afford to act like you have a majority of 150.
The Tories have to make a choice about what Brexit to go for. They have put it off far too long in some impossible hope that the party could avoid a confrontation on the issue. Resignations at that point woukd be inevitable.
It might be fatal to her premiership, but that cannot move forward until they make a damn decision already, and that could not happen without some people going.
If there is a leadership election it has to be clear that there is no route to a clean break Brexit which does not pass through the chaos of NO DEAL. In addition, the open border policy in Ireland will have to be repudiated, along with the Irish backstop.
I'll be disappointed if letters aren't going in to the 1922 Committee. Time to sort this out one way or another. Settle the issue.
It won't settle the issue. The reason that we had a referendum is that politicians could not represent (or even understand) the majority view of the nation. So the fact that Remainers are a majority in all major parties is not really the point. Leave won the referendum and Remain have to accept that they cannot dictate terms from the position of defeat.
The only way that the issue can be settled is for Remain to accept they lost and allow the Leavers to implement Brexit. Otherwise, the Tory party cannot survive.
If there is a leadership election it has to be clear that there is no route to a clean break Brexit which does not pass through the chaos of NO DEAL. In addition the open border policy in Ireland will have to be repudiated, along with the Irish backstop.
It is perfectly possible to have an open border in NI covered by MaxFac. But yes, the backstop needs to go.
I predict that the MOST damaging part of the DD resignation is that he will confirm that he told May never to agree to the NI backstop and that Robbins agreed to it without his agreement.
I think May still has support amongst the silent majority of Tory MPs. She should tell the European Research Group (Who don't seem to do much research on Europe) to put up or shut up.
I don't think she has. The issue for MPs backing May is that they know she'll try and dig in to run in 2022 if she wins, few to no MPs trust her to run in 2022. If she is challenged then she will go because every MP is going to be looking at their majority and thinking back to 2017.
Piss poor man-management as much as anything. May has treated Davis with contempt for months. Whether he deserved that or not is beside the point; she should have know it was likely to lead to his resignation, and that his resignation could prove fatal to her premiership. When you're weak, you cannot afford to act like you have a majority of 150.
That's what I've been saying as well...
All of the stuff on Friday abvout people having to call taxi's if they resign. Terrible. Just terrible.
She's been taking the piss. Not only at Brexiteers but at the 17.4m who voted Brexit (the vast majority of them Conservatives voters and members)
Which would be OK (well it wouldn't be OK but it would be survivable) is she had a majority of 150... Unfortunately she doesn't even have a majority...
The only way that the issue can be settled is for Remain to accept they lost and allow the Leavers to implement Brexit. Otherwise, the Tory party cannot survive.
There is no agreement on what Brexit is, that's the problem.
Davis will give a “bland, matter of fact critique” of Mrs May’s failings rather than “savage her” but will not shy away from saying that she has not been carrying out Brexit in the right way.
One minister claimed that he did not resign on Friday because he was “dumbfounded” by the approach of other Brexiteers who fell into line behind the prime minister, notably Michael Gove. The environment secretary is likely to be a particular target of some Brexiteer MPs, along with Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary. The resignation may embolden Brexiteer backbenchers with concerns about Mrs May’s leadership.
Why not wait until the morning when the media are better equipped to cover your flounce?
An even bigger name is resigning in the morning...
No - if there was and organised plot, Davis would have resigned around 8-9pm, in order to hit the morning papers and the 10pm news slots without giving No 10 much time to respond. Resigning so late is rotten PR tactics. I'd say that he's acting alone, not for the first time.
That said, immense pressure now on Boris, Fox and the rest to follow up. Especially Boris, given what was leaked. Interesting question, mind, as to who leaked it. Boris had nothing to gain from that but nor did May. The natural assumption is that it was a different Brexiteer, possibly one who had his or her eye on the leadership and certainly one who wishes harm on Boris.
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
I expect that there will be a leadership contest. And I expect that the Party will unite around the new leader.
Why? There does not seem support across a majority for what the Rees Moggs of the world want either. Surely someone new takes over and the fight just begins again. It's not like if may wins, or someone who backs the deal, that Mogg and co will suddenly be supportive of it.
The party needs to split. It no longer has common cause on the fundamental issue of the day. If the sides cannot agree on a middle way, and they self evidently cannot, they should stop pretending.
That feeling where you could have gone to bed, but decided to check the news just once more. Arse.
I was just listening to the LBC phone in on the way home in the car at about 11.45pm. Then it was announced and within 5 minutes Iain Dale was on the line outlining details of his conversation with David Davis ten minutes before and confirming he would be interviewing the ex Brexit Secretary on his drive time show tomorrow afternoon.
LBC have also confirmed JRM is doing the Nick Ferrari breakfast show tomorrow morning.
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
I expect that there will be a leadership contest. And I expect that the Party will unite around the new leader.
Why? There does not seem support across a majority for what the Rees Moggs of the world want either. Surely someone new takes over and the fight just begins again. It's not like if may wins, or someone who backs the deal, that Mogg and co will suddenly be supportive of it.
The party needs to split. It no longer has common cause on the fundamental issue of the day. If the sides cannot agree on a middle way, and they self evidently cannot, they should stop pretending.
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
I expect that there will be a leadership contest. And I expect that the Party will unite around the new leader.
Tmay has to go. Fuck her and her weird aspergery hand movements. She is a walking disaster. She is (inter alia) a victim of her own autism. All those red lines so soon? What An Idiot.
Elect a Hard Brexit leader. If it is No Deal Brexit we will cope. We have seen worse. We survived the fucking Blitz. Let the nation unite around Harry Kane and rhubarb crumble.
SeanT goes overnight from backing the Great May Brexit fudge to backing Davis and Mogg full hard Brexit.
SeanT dithered between Remain and Leave before eventually going for Leave.
Leave narrowly won. On Brexit as SeanT goes so goes the nation?
Davis will give a “bland, matter of fact critique” of Mrs May’s failings rather than “savage her” but will not shy away from saying that she has not been carrying out Brexit in the right way.
One minister claimed that he did not resign on Friday because he was “dumbfounded” by the approach of other Brexiteers who fell into line behind the prime minister, notably Michael Gove. The environment secretary is likely to be a particular target of some Brexiteer MPs, along with Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary. The resignation may embolden Brexiteer backbenchers with concerns about Mrs May’s leadership.
To be "dumbfounded" by Gove's duplicity...how innocent...is politics the best career for this individual?
And now coward is added to why he didn't resign earlier. He did know the deal was bad but was too surprised others said it was ok that...he allowed it to go out in all their names as being ok.
Why not wait until the morning when the media are better equipped to cover your flounce?
An even bigger name is resigning in the morning...
No - if there was and organised plot, Davis would have resigned around 8-9pm, in order to hit the morning papers and the 10pm news slots without giving No 10 much time to respond. Resigning so late is rotten PR tactics. I'd say that he's acting alone, not for the first time.
That said, immense pressure now on Boris, Fox and the rest to follow up. Especially Boris, given what was leaked. Interesting question, mind, as to who leaked it. Boris had nothing to gain from that but nor did May. The natural assumption is that it was a different Brexiteer, possibly one who had his or her eye on the leadership and certainly one who wishes harm on Boris.
I expect Boris will resign as well making TM position untenable requiring her to resign and a proper leadership election take place. Pleased I am not going abroad as the pound is likely to tank.
Politics - never fails to amaze - and who is going to look after Trump
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
I expect that there will be a leadership contest. And I expect that the Party will unite around the new leader.
Why? There does not seem support across a majority for what the Rees Moggs of the world want either. Surely someone new takes over and the fight just begins again.
The party needs to split. It no longer has common cause on the fundamental issue of the day. If the sides cannot agree on a middle way, and they self evidently cannot, they should stop pretending.
Not really, there are probably about 20 remainer ultras, 20-30 remainer-lites (think May/Hammond), 50-60 Brexit-lite (think Javid) and another 60-80 Brexit-ultras. The rest are somewhere in between and biddable.
Why not wait until the morning when the media are better equipped to cover your flounce?
An even bigger name is resigning in the morning...
No - if there was and organised plot, Davis would have resigned around 8-9pm, in order to hit the morning papers and the 10pm news slots without giving No 10 much time to respond. Resigning so late is rotten PR tactics. I'd say that he's acting alone, not for the first time.
That said, immense pressure now on Boris, Fox and the rest to follow up. Especially Boris, given what was leaked. Interesting question, mind, as to who leaked it. Boris had nothing to gain from that but nor did May. The natural assumption is that it was a different Brexiteer, possibly one who had his or her eye on the leadership and certainly one who wishes harm on Boris.
I expect Boris will resign as well making TM position untenable requiring her to resign and a proper leadership election take place. Pleased I am not going abroad as the pound is likely to tank.
Politics - never fails to amaze - and who is going to look after Trump
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
I expect that there will be a leadership contest. And I expect that the Party will unite around the new leader.
Why? There does not seem support across a majority for what the Rees Moggs of the world want either. Surely someone new takes over and the fight just begins again. It's not like if may wins, or someone who backs the deal, that Mogg and co will suddenly be supportive of it.
The party needs to split. It no longer has common cause on the fundamental issue of the day. If the sides cannot agree on a middle way, and they self evidently cannot, they should stop pretending.
There is no middle way. That is the whole problem. We stay a satrapy of the EU to protect our economy at the price of meaningful independence, or we go for freedom whatever the cost.
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
I expect that there will be a leadership contest. And I expect that the Party will unite around the new leader.
Why? There does not seem support across a majority for what the Rees Moggs of the world want either. Surely someone new takes over and the fight just begins again.
The party needs to split. It no longer has common cause on the fundamental issue of the day. If the sides cannot agree on a middle way, and they self evidently cannot, they should stop pretending.
Not really, there are probably about 20 remainer ultras, 20-30 remainer-lites (think May/Hammond), 50-60 Brexit-lite (think Javid) and another 60-80 Brexit-ultras. The rest are somewhere in between and biddable.
The point is the ultras on either side prevent anything from happening. The pretence that all of them can be made happy has led to the incompetent dithering and can kicking we have seen.
Until they tories fight this out they cannot move on. Whether enough is left to move on after the fight remains to be seen.
Perhaps the Tories must now split. A leadership contest will be held, and the supporters of the losing candidate won’t follow the new leader.
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
Maybe this time the members might actually get a vote. If May had actually been exposed to a proper campaign for the leadership for 2 months against Leadsom people might have seen what a rubbish campaigner she was before the 2017 election disaster unfolded.
Problem with that argument is that it would have shown what a poor campaigner Leadsom was. She was only throwing her hat in the ring for a future contest. I don't think she expected to get to the final 2 and wisely backed out as soon as she could.
Why not wait until the morning when the media are better equipped to cover your flounce?
An even bigger name is resigning in the morning...
No - if there was and organised plot, Davis would have resigned around 8-9pm, in order to hit the morning papers and the 10pm news slots without giving No 10 much time to respond. Resigning so late is rotten PR tactics. I'd say that he's acting alone, not for the first time.
That said, immense pressure now on Boris, Fox and the rest to follow up. Especially Boris, given what was leaked. Interesting question, mind, as to who leaked it. Boris had nothing to gain from that but nor did May. The natural assumption is that it was a different Brexiteer, possibly one who had his or her eye on the leadership and certainly one who wishes harm on Boris.
Actually, waiting to resign was a great move. Anything yesterday would have been drowned out by the World Cup and would have played into May's 'taxi' narrative. It would also have looked impulsive. Now he can claim he considered it, asked for clarifications from May and when they were not forthcoming he resigned. They have clear press air Monday and Tuesday and May has to face the 1922 tomorrow. That should be fun.
Comments
This seems to be the sort of thing that happens when he is away
But maybe Gove to Brexit, Raab to replace Gove.
No.
I am however on a holiday from writing PB threads during July.
Either May and her deal is finished. Or the Tory Party is finished.
Con MP's will have to decide.
The resignation comes as Mrs May prepares to face the House of Commons and then Tory MPs and peers on Monday to discuss her Brexit plan.
Mrs May is expected to tell MPs that the strategy agreed on by the cabinet at Chequers on Friday is the "right Brexit" for Britain.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44761056
And the opposition will, quite rightly, state that if it is so right how come said agreement by the Cabinet didn't even last the weekend.
Perhaps Corbyn will be PM by this christmas after all. More likely than May at any rate.
Financially, I hope not, but...
History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes...
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1016093640375054336?s=20
Personally I think this has all been pre-arranged since last week and they'll be more resignations in the morning (from Boris and maybe others) but we shall see.
Gove is a snake. He'll do whatever's in his own best interest.
One minister claimed that he did not resign on Friday because he was “dumbfounded” by the approach of other Brexiteers who fell into line behind the prime minister, notably Michael Gove. The environment secretary is likely to be a particular target of some Brexiteer MPs, along with Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary. The resignation may embolden Brexiteer backbenchers with concerns about Mrs May’s leadership.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-in-crisis-as-davis-resigns-rwwfb5bhm
It might be fatal to her premiership, but that cannot move forward until they make a damn decision already, and that could not happen without some people going.
The only way that the issue can be settled is for Remain to accept they lost and allow the Leavers to implement Brexit. Otherwise, the Tory party cannot survive.
I predict that the MOST damaging part of the DD resignation is that he will confirm that he told May never to agree to the NI backstop and that Robbins agreed to it without his agreement.
All of the stuff on Friday abvout people having to call taxi's if they resign. Terrible. Just terrible.
She's been taking the piss. Not only at Brexiteers but at the 17.4m who voted Brexit (the vast majority of them Conservatives voters and members)
Which would be OK (well it wouldn't be OK but it would be survivable) is she had a majority of 150... Unfortunately she doesn't even have a majority...
That said, immense pressure now on Boris, Fox and the rest to follow up. Especially Boris, given what was leaked. Interesting question, mind, as to who leaked it. Boris had nothing to gain from that but nor did May. The natural assumption is that it was a different Brexiteer, possibly one who had his or her eye on the leadership and certainly one who wishes harm on Boris.
The party needs to split. It no longer has common cause on the fundamental issue of the day. If the sides cannot agree on a middle way, and they self evidently cannot, they should stop pretending.
LBC have also confirmed JRM is doing the Nick Ferrari breakfast show tomorrow morning.
SeanT dithered between Remain and Leave before eventually going for Leave.
Leave narrowly won. On Brexit as SeanT goes so goes the nation?
Another 28yr anniversary.
Politics - never fails to amaze - and who is going to look after Trump
* could be total fake news as love island is not viewed in the urquhart household.
Until they tories fight this out they cannot move on. Whether enough is left to move on after the fight remains to be seen.