wonder if Cameron will stick to his cowardly position on debating independence. Alex keeping up the pressure
Below is the text of a letter sent by Alex Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland, to the UK Prime Minister David Cameron today, setting out six reasons why the PM should take part in a live debate with the FM on the subject of Scottish independence.
Ergo, Eck will blink - or call the whole thing off.......
It suits Salmond to continue to call for a debate with Cameron. Either he gets one or he doesnt in which case he can run the "what's he scared of" line.
wonder if Cameron will stick to his cowardly position on debating independence. Alex keeping up the pressure
Below is the text of a letter sent by Alex Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland, to the UK Prime Minister David Cameron today, setting out six reasons why the PM should take part in a live debate with the FM on the subject of Scottish independence.
Ergo, Eck will blink - or call the whole thing off.......
It suits Salmond to continue to call for a debate with Cameron. Either he gets one or he doesnt in which case he can run the "what's he scared of" line.
As assuredly will Darling and the No campaign to Big Fearty Eck, "what's he scared of by not debating his fellow Scots"? Much more resonant, eh?
Mr. G, if the vote were to be UK-wide it would be a legitimate argument. But it isn't. It's a Scottish matter. You can't seriously claim that having a Scotsman on one side and an Englishman on the other is a fair debate.
Morris, Then why did the dullard say he would fight to keep the union with every fibre of his being. He is a tool and a very stupid one to boot.
Ergo, Eck will blink - or call the whole thing off.......
It suits Salmond to continue to call for a debate with Cameron. Either he gets one or he doesnt in which case he can run the "what's he scared of" line.
From Twitter Tory Chairman Grant Shapps won't be able to praise Manchester Conservative councillors this afternoon. Cos there aren't any
I mentioned the other day that I could not see why the Tories were holding their conference in Manchester. Far better down the road at Blackpool where at least they would have got some compensatory sea air.
Small matter but isn't Blackpool "up the road" from Manchester?
Blackppol is north of Manchester, but also at a lower altitude. So you can justifiably say the road is going down.
So one of them is going to have to blink. And it ain't going to be Dave. So if Eck wants his debates he's going to have to face Alistair. He'll eventually cave in, particularly if the NOs retain the advantage.
Alex will wipe the floor with Darling , but we will have 12 months of cowardy custard undermining the unionists. The NO's will need to come up with some ideas at some point.
You can't seriously claim that having a Scotsman on one side and an Englishman on the other is a fair debate.
On what planet is Eck looking for a fair debate?
So what is he looking for, he wants Cameron to show why teh union should remain, he is happy to debate his position , unionists as ever are scared rigid.
'wonder if Cameron will stick to his cowardly position on debating independence. Alex keeping up the pressure'
Will Saint Alex use that as yet another excuse when he loses?
What a twat , he will take it like a man win or lose , he will not be hiding behind the sofa like Cameron, who if the NO's won would be desperate to claim the victory despite his cowardice and lack of principles.
No's doing well - Cameron won't blink. Yes doing well - last thing Cameron will do is take the fall.....
Ergo, Eck will blink - or call the whole thing off.......
You know that, I know that and of course Malcolmg knows that too!
Eck, will not be sacred to debate his position , if you watched the dire performance of Flipper on politics today , Cameron has handed the reins to a donkey.
'So what is he looking for, he wants Cameron to show why teh union should remain, he is happy to debate his position , unionists as ever are scared rigid.'
You must be delighted that the unionists are scared rigid,all going your way,independence nailed on,why do you keep on whining?
Ergo, Eck will blink - or call the whole thing off.......
It suits Salmond to continue to call for a debate with Cameron. Either he gets one or he doesnt in which case he can run the "what's he scared of" line.
If only Cammo would put party before country.... debate Eck, lose Scotland and all those Labour MPs and bingo, Tory Maj nailed on for him with what's left of the UK!
Ergo, Eck will blink - or call the whole thing off.......
It suits Salmond to continue to call for a debate with Cameron. Either he gets one or he doesnt in which case he can run the "what's he scared of" line.
As assuredly will Darling and the No campaign to Big Fearty Eck, "what's he scared of by not debating his fellow Scots"? Much more resonant, eh?
Cameron knows he needs a dummy to take the flak when he loses , Darling is that dumpling. Tories are down to depending on a failed Labour backbencher. Cameron is a man of straw.
'So what is he looking for, he wants Cameron to show why teh union should remain, he is happy to debate his position , unionists as ever are scared rigid.'
You must be delighted that the unionists are scared rigid,all going your way,independence nailed on,why do you keep on whining?
Who is whining , you show your true colours there, don't anybody dare have an opposing opinion to you. Insecure Tory fanny.
You must be delighted that the unionists are scared rigid,all going your way,independence nailed on,why do you keep on whining?
Why? perhaps the rhetoric does not match the reality - Alistair Darling, whom I’m assured the tubby jock will wipe the floor with, says case for independent Scotland is floundering:
YouGov poll for the Times shows that 52% of people in Scotland back staying in the UK with only 32% in favour of leaving.
'So what is he looking for, he wants Cameron to show why teh union should remain, he is happy to debate his position , unionists as ever are scared rigid.'
You must be delighted that the unionists are scared rigid,all going your way,independence nailed on,why do you keep on whining?
Why? perhaps the rhetoric does not match the reality - Alistair Darling, whom I’m assured the tubby jock will wipe the floor with, says case for independent Scotland is floundering: YouGov poll for the Times shows that 52% of people in Scotland back staying in the UK with only 32% in favour of leaving.
yawn yawn , Yougov have never got a Scottish vote right in their history. There are lots of conflicting polls. Why is Cameron scared if as you say it is a foregone conclusion.
This is just a bit of classic Salmond grandstanding during the Conference season, wouldn't bother giving him the publicity right now. He could do something far more useful to contribute to the debate, and that is finally publish his White Paper.
So one of them is going to have to blink. And it ain't going to be Dave. So if Eck wants his debates he's going to have to face Alistair. He'll eventually cave in, particularly if the NOs retain the advantage.
'What a twat , he will take it like a man win or lose'
So the twat will resign if he loses the referendum vote?
Why should he resign, if those were the rules Cameron would be gone, he tried to emulate his pal by having a war in Syria and got a drubbing. You are a real numpty.
''Why? perhaps the rhetoric does not match the reality - Alistair Darling, whom I’m assured the tubby jock will wipe the floor with, says case for independent Scotland is floundering:'
Exactly,hence all the whining and search for excuses.
As assuredly will Darling and the No campaign to Big Fearty Eck, "what's he scared of by not debating his fellow Scots"? Much more resonant, eh?
Salmond will likely debate with Darling at some point, but why assign status to a failed chancellor and under-occupied backbencher this early? If Daveheart continues blustering, Eck will sigh wearily and say 'If I must'. Once he gets Darling blinking and the vein in his forehead throbbing, headlines such as 'No organ grinder, but Eck makes a monkey of Al' will be plenty resonant.
This is just a bit of classic Salmond grandstanding during the Conference season, wouldn't bother giving him the publicity right now. He could do something far more useful to contribute to the debate, and that is finally publish his White Paper.
So one of them is going to have to blink. And it ain't going to be Dave. So if Eck wants his debates he's going to have to face Alistair. He'll eventually cave in, particularly if the NOs retain the advantage.
we have a Scottish Tory on , Cameron could not even suggest his solitary Tory MP debate with Salmond , he had to ask labour for a fall guy. Tories regional team leader was caught being economical with the truth again last Thursday and totally embarrassed yet again. Tories, more faces than the town clock.
Because independence is the prime reason for the SNP's existence,after complaining for years that the other parties blocked a referendum,Salmond has one and the Scottish voters say thanks but no thanks.
As assuredly will Darling and the No campaign to Big Fearty Eck, "what's he scared of by not debating his fellow Scots"? Much more resonant, eh?
Salmond will likely debate with Darling at some point, but why assign status to a failed chancellor and under-occupied backbencher this early? If Daveheart continues blustering, Eck will sigh wearily and say 'If I must'. Once he gets Darling blinking and the vein in his forehead throbbing, headlines such as 'No organ grinder, but Eck makes a monkey of Al' will be plenty resonant.
I'd be a little less hubristic and cocky if I were you. Salmond and Darling certainly have wildly contrasting styles and who knows at this stage whose manner will most appeal to Scottish voters in this the most important political decision they will ever take.
As assuredly will Darling and the No campaign to Big Fearty Eck, "what's he scared of by not debating his fellow Scots"? Much more resonant, eh?
Salmond will likely debate with Darling at some point, but why assign status to a failed chancellor and under-occupied backbencher this early? If Daveheart continues blustering, Eck will sigh wearily and say 'If I must'. Once he gets Darling blinking and the vein in his forehead throbbing, headlines such as 'No organ grinder, but Eck makes a monkey of Al' will be plenty resonant.
I'd be a little less hubristic and cocky if I were you. Salmond and Darling certainly have wildly contrasting styles and who knows at this stage whose manner will most appeal to Scottish voters in this the most important political decision they will ever take.
Anecodote alert...
Was speaking to a number of folk in Glasgow recent on Independence. The one thing that united Yes and No supporters was that Darling and the No campaign were not doing a good job.
Because independence is the prime reason for the SNP's existence,after complaining for years that the other parties blocked a referendum,Salmond has one and the Scottish voters say thanks but no thanks.
rubbish, they are there to represent Scotland's interests and are the only party in the UK with that remit. So independent or not they have a major purpose to counter the London centric failure parties.
This is just a bit of classic Salmond grandstanding during the Conference season, wouldn't bother giving him the publicity right now. He could do something far more useful to contribute to the debate, and that is finally publish his White Paper.
So one of them is going to have to blink. And it ain't going to be Dave. So if Eck wants his debates he's going to have to face Alistair. He'll eventually cave in, particularly if the NOs retain the advantage.
we have a Scottish Tory on , Cameron could not even suggest his solitary Tory MP debate with Salmond , he had to ask labour for a fall guy. Tories regional team leader was caught being economical with the truth again last Thursday and totally embarrassed yet again. Tories, more faces than the town clock.
I thought the SNP was for less rather than more involvement in Scottish politics by Englishmen from Westminster? The principle of self determination says that Scotland comes to a view and the rest of the world respects its decision. This is epic twattery from Salmond for whom I once had a lot of respect.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
As assuredly will Darling and the No campaign to Big Fearty Eck, "what's he scared of by not debating his fellow Scots"? Much more resonant, eh?
Salmond will likely debate with Darling at some point, but why assign status to a failed chancellor and under-occupied backbencher this early? If Daveheart continues blustering, Eck will sigh wearily and say 'If I must'. Once he gets Darling blinking and the vein in his forehead throbbing, headlines such as 'No organ grinder, but Eck makes a monkey of Al' will be plenty resonant.
I'd be a little less hubristic and cocky if I were you. Salmond and Darling certainly have wildly contrasting styles and who knows at this stage whose manner will most appeal to Scottish voters in this the most important political decision they will ever take.
LOL, flipper will have eyebrows twitching and stammering away, he is no match for Salmond on Scottish matters. He has little to say and will be shown up for the abject failure he continues to be.
This is just a bit of classic Salmond grandstanding during the Conference season, wouldn't bother giving him the publicity right now. He could do something far more useful to contribute to the debate, and that is finally publish his White Paper.
So one of them is going to have to blink. And it ain't going to be Dave. So if Eck wants his debates he's going to have to face Alistair. He'll eventually cave in, particularly if the NOs retain the advantage.
we have a Scottish Tory on , Cameron could not even suggest his solitary Tory MP debate with Salmond , he had to ask labour for a fall guy. Tories regional team leader was caught being economical with the truth again last Thursday and totally embarrassed yet again. Tories, more faces than the town clock.
I thought the SNP was for less rather than more involvement in Scottish politics by Englishmen from Westminster? The principle of self determination says that Scotland comes to a view and the rest of the world respects its decision. This is epic twattery from Salmond for whom I once had a lot of respect.
So cameron has nothing to say on the outcome of a YES or NO vote and the likely changes that either position will bring. You think the UK will just continue on its merry way.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
Agreed. I'd like the London politicians to make the case for the Union. I'd like to see Miliband debate Salmond as well.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
Agreed. I'd like the London politicians to make the case for the Union. I'd like to see Miliband debate Salmond as well.
It needs a full debate between all the parties to say what shape the UK will be after the vote , regardless of the result the status Quo is not an option. So all the unionists should be detailing what the changes will be rather than just shouting that the SNP should be able to decide fiscal policies in teh future.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
Agreed. I'd like the London politicians to make the case for the Union. I'd like to see Miliband debate Salmond as well.
It needs a full debate between all the parties to say what shape the UK will be after the vote , regardless of the result the status Quo is not an option. So all the unionists should be detailing what the changes will be rather than just shouting that the SNP should be able to decide fiscal policies in teh future.
If Scotland votes for union, would you agree that any future constitution should be put to the whole UK?
This is just a bit of classic Salmond grandstanding during the Conference season, wouldn't bother giving him the publicity right now. He could do something far more useful to contribute to the debate, and that is finally publish his White Paper.
So one of them is going to have to blink. And it ain't going to be Dave. So if Eck wants his debates he's going to have to face Alistair. He'll eventually cave in, particularly if the NOs retain the advantage.
we have a Scottish Tory on , Cameron could not even suggest his solitary Tory MP debate with Salmond , he had to ask labour for a fall guy. Tories regional team leader was caught being economical with the truth again last Thursday and totally embarrassed yet again. Tories, more faces than the town clock.
I thought the SNP was for less rather than more involvement in Scottish politics by Englishmen from Westminster? The principle of self determination says that Scotland comes to a view and the rest of the world respects its decision. This is epic twattery from Salmond for whom I once had a lot of respect.
So cameron has nothing to say on the outcome of a YES or NO vote and the likely changes that either position will bring. You think the UK will just continue on its merry way.
He has lots to say, no doubt. A debate with Salmond is just a ludicrously inappropriate context in which to say it.
Do you foresee many calls for von Rumpoy's successor to come over to debate with any UK pm who arranges for a referendum? Me neither. Bugger off, it's nowt to do with thee as they say in Yorkshire.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
that statement just shows how wussies like you in the South have no inkling of how people north of the Thames think. Plummy southerner debating local boy is hardly going to get the voters on side.
I'd be a little less hubristic and cocky if I were you. Salmond and Darling certainly have wildly contrasting styles and who knows at this stage whose manner will most appeal to Scottish voters in this the most important political decision they will ever take.
What comparitive polling there is does have Eck ahead (and I have a bet with tim on it). However I assume I've watched more of Darling's Scottish forays than you ('and now for Scottish viewers only'); blinking and bulging veins is the least if it. If calm and authoritative is Darling's USP, he's lost it.
From Twitter Tory Chairman Grant Shapps won't be able to praise Manchester Conservative councillors this afternoon. Cos there aren't any
I mentioned the other day that I could not see why the Tories were holding their conference in Manchester. Far better down the road at Blackpool where at least they would have got some compensatory sea air.
Small matter but isn't Blackpool "up the road" from Manchester?
Blackppol is north of Manchester, but also at a lower altitude. So you can justifiably say the road is going down.
Who knew that the Ship Canal features the world's only swing aqueduct?
Me. But then that's the sort of pointless rubbish useful fact I know.
I'd like to go and see the Anderton boat lift on the Trent and Mersey, which is fairly near there. I've done the Falkirk Wheel on a couple of occasions (a good bit o' Derbyshire engineering), but the Anderton's a very different beast. True Meccano engineering.
David Smith's piece in the ST a couple of weeks ago had lots of interesting stats and charts for Scottish indepedence. The charts for north sea oil and gas output were startling. The fall in the last decade has been remarkable.
This is a good example: "The Westminster government’s latest Scotland analysis has useful background on the border effect; how separation leads to a drop on bilateral trade. Prior to the split of Czechoslovakia 20 years ago, 22% of what are now Czech Republic “exports” went to Slovakia. Within five years it was less than 10%. The effect for Slovakia was even more dramatic, a drop from nearly 45% to 15%. Ireland saw a drop over decades from 90% of trade with Britain to around 25%.
So Scottish businesses will face the challenge of replacing a likely loss of trade with the rest of the UK. Nine in 10 customers of Scotland’s financial services industry are in the rest of the UK; as are 60% of its business services exports and a third of the exports of its key food and drink sector."
I think the PM of the UK should campaign for the future existence of the UK. I am sure he will. Whether that means he should debate with Salmond is another question. Ultimately this is a decision for Scots and Scots should argue the case.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
that statement just shows how wussies like you in the South have no inkling of how people north of the Thames think. Plummy southerner debating local boy is hardly going to get the voters on side.
A Britsh PM worth his salt should not have to hide from Scotland for fear of losing votes. The votes you fear he'll lose are probably lost anyway.
On the other hand, do Labour and the Libdems really want to see David Cameron taking the lead on this debate in that format so close to the next GE? I think that Salmond should debate with the person leading the Better Together campaign in Scotland, and that is Alastair Darling who will be casting a vote in the Referendum.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
that statement just shows how wussies like you in the South have no inkling of how people north of the Thames think. Plummy southerner debating local boy is hardly going to get the voters on side.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
that statement just shows how wussies like you in the South have no inkling of how people north of the Thames think. Plummy southerner debating local boy is hardly going to get the voters on side.
A Britsh PM worth his salt should not have to hide from Scotland for fear of losing votes. The votes you fear he'll lose are probably lost anyway.
Well I think it's either the most idiotic thing you've said on PB Jonathan ( and your posts are normally sensible ) or just plain trolling. To date I note no-one from BT or Team Miliband is calling for Cameron to take a bigger role. The silence says it all.
Now this would be one hell of a battle of the egos. Twitter Murdo Fraser @murdo_fraser 10m Alex Salmond v. @georgegalloway? Now that's a debate I'd pay good money to see.
From Twitter Tory Chairman Grant Shapps won't be able to praise Manchester Conservative councillors this afternoon. Cos there aren't any
I mentioned the other day that I could not see why the Tories were holding their conference in Manchester. Far better down the road at Blackpool where at least they would have got some compensatory sea air.
Small matter but isn't Blackpool "up the road" from Manchester?
Blackppol is north of Manchester, but also at a lower altitude. So you can justifiably say the road is going down.
Who knew that the Ship Canal features the world's only swing aqueduct?
Me. But then that's the sort of pointless rubbish useful fact I know.
I'd like to go and see the Anderton boat lift on the Trent and Mersey, which is fairly near there. I've done the Falkirk Wheel on a couple of occasions (a good bit o' Derbyshire engineering), but the Anderton's a very different beast. True Meccano engineering.
From Twitter Tory Chairman Grant Shapps won't be able to praise Manchester Conservative councillors this afternoon. Cos there aren't any
I mentioned the other day that I could not see why the Tories were holding their conference in Manchester. Far better down the road at Blackpool where at least they would have got some compensatory sea air.
Small matter but isn't Blackpool "up the road" from Manchester?
Blackppol is north of Manchester, but also at a lower altitude. So you can justifiably say the road is going down.
Who knew that the Ship Canal features the world's only swing aqueduct?
Me. But then that's the sort of pointless rubbish useful fact I know.
I'd like to go and see the Anderton boat lift on the Trent and Mersey, which is fairly near there. I've done the Falkirk Wheel on a couple of occasions (a good bit o' Derbyshire engineering), but the Anderton's a very different beast. True Meccano engineering.
Wow, I didn't know that was being restored. I've visited the flight of locks on a few occasions whilst on walks and knew about the lift, but never thought they'd rebuild it. Good luck to 'em.
There are some many wonderful bits of engineering scattered around this country, and few people seem to take pride in, or even know about, them.
Hang on, a year or so ago when Cameron voiced an opinion on the referendum, weren't the SNP at his throat accusing him of "seeking to interfere with the democratic rights of scottish people"? Now they are demanding he should be front and centre. You can't have it both ways.
From Twitter Tory Chairman Grant Shapps won't be able to praise Manchester Conservative councillors this afternoon. Cos there aren't any
I mentioned the other day that I could not see why the Tories were holding their conference in Manchester. Far better down the road at Blackpool where at least they would have got some compensatory sea air.
Small matter but isn't Blackpool "up the road" from Manchester?
Blackppol is north of Manchester, but also at a lower altitude. So you can justifiably say the road is going down.
Who knew that the Ship Canal features the world's only swing aqueduct?
Me. But then that's the sort of pointless rubbish useful fact I know.
I'd like to go and see the Anderton boat lift on the Trent and Mersey, which is fairly near there. I've done the Falkirk Wheel on a couple of occasions (a good bit o' Derbyshire engineering), but the Anderton's a very different beast. True Meccano engineering.
Wow, I didn't know that was being restored. I've visited the flight of locks on a few occasions whilst on walks and knew about the lift, but never thought they'd rebuild it. Good luck to 'em.
There are some many wonderful bits of engineering scattered around this country, and few people seem to take pride in, or even know about, them.
You could always try the Elbing Canal in Poland where the boats go by rail for 5 miles or s0
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
that statement just shows how wussies like you in the South have no inkling of how people north of the Thames think. Plummy southerner debating local boy is hardly going to get the voters on side.
A Britsh PM worth his salt should not have to hide from Scotland for fear of losing votes. The votes you fear he'll lose are probably lost anyway.
Well I think it's either the most idiotic thing you've said on PB Jonathan ( and your posts are normally sensible ) or just plain trolling. To date I note no-one from BT or Team Miliband is calling for Cameron to take a bigger role. The silence says it all.
I know where you're coming from, but don't think it is quite as black and white as you think. II met a number of No leaners. They valued the relationship with England were anxious that they would lose e benefits it represents. There was no hostility.
Pardon me for interrupting an enjoyable squabble, but I thought the whole point of Mr Salmond trying to set up a debate with Mr Cameron is so that the nationalists will be able to tell Mr Cameron not to meddle in affairs that don't concern him.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Cameron is PM of the whole UK including Scotland. When its future is at stake, I expect him to get off his arse and fight for it. Regardless of that, I think it is a reasonable request.
that statement just shows how wussies like you in the South have no inkling of how people north of the Thames think. Plummy southerner debating local boy is hardly going to get the voters on side.
A Britsh PM worth his salt should not have to hide from Scotland for fear of losing votes. The votes you fear he'll lose are probably lost anyway.
Well I think it's either the most idiotic thing you've said on PB Jonathan ( and your posts are normally sensible ) or just plain trolling. To date I note no-one from BT or Team Miliband is calling for Cameron to take a bigger role. The silence says it all.
I know where you're coming from, but don't think it is quite as black and white as you think. II met a number of No leaners. They valued the relationship with England were anxious that they would lose e benefits it represents. There was no hostility.
well see it as you will Jonathan, but the person asking for Cameron to join the debate is the head of the SNP, and no-one on the Unionist side is as yet crying out for his intervention.
Who knew that the Ship Canal features the world's only swing aqueduct?
Me. But then that's the sort of pointless rubbish useful fact I know.
I'd like to go and see the Anderton boat lift on the Trent and Mersey, which is fairly near there. I've done the Falkirk Wheel on a couple of occasions (a good bit o' Derbyshire engineering), but the Anderton's a very different beast. True Meccano engineering.
Wow, I didn't know that was being restored. I've visited the flight of locks on a few occasions whilst on walks and knew about the lift, but never thought they'd rebuild it. Good luck to 'em.
There are some many wonderful bits of engineering scattered around this country, and few people seem to take pride in, or even know about, them.
You could always try the Elbing Canal in Poland where the boats go by rail for 5 miles or s0
Cool. That was one of the original plans for what is now the Panama Canal - ISTR a drawing of about six steam locomotives pulling a ship. For the obvious reasons the project never went ahead. (*)
Although my heart still lies with my namesake's merger between railway and canal - the Cromford and High Peak Railway in Derbyshire. A tramway built to canal principles with inclined planes and long level sections. It had bene done elsewhere, but the scale of the C&HPR was something else ...
I think my biggest concern about the next election is the difference between left and right in self discipline and focus. Almost every other aspect of New Labour has been thrown overboard but the almost feral desire to be on message and in line remains. It is genuinely impressive.
And then read the comments btl. The hostility and division on the right dooms them to defeat. It is not just UKIP, it goes well beyond that. The tories have a civil war going on in government, not so much in Parliament but outside it. It is killing the party. And the more of this sort of nonsense I read the more convinced I become that it will result in Miliband being elected.
A House divided against itself cannot stand. Cameron has a hell of a job. Hardly any of the shadow cabinet agree with Ed but they STFU. As I say, it is impressive.
Hang on, a year or so ago when Cameron voiced an opinion on the referendum, weren't the SNP at his throat accusing him of "seeking to interfere with the democratic rights of scottish people"? Now they are demanding he should be front and centre. You can't have it both ways.
Assume you've put quotation marks there because that's a quote? Perhaps not.
If Cameron hadn't started of saying 'I will fight with every fibre of my body to keep Scotland in the union' and yet has now decided to leave the referendum debate as a matter for 'Scots living in Scotland'(these both are quotes), demands for him to defy his capon heart and show up for a debate might be pretty thin. However since he and his government have continually indulged in scaremongering interventions, and employ the UK civil service to produce reports to bolster said scaremongering, he deserves all the pelters he gets.
Independent - Scottish bosses keep silent on independence "Leading Scottish businesses are keeping silent on the critical question of next year's independence referendum because of fears that any pro-Union public pronouncements will be commercially "punished" by Alex Salmond's Holyrood government."
Off topic,but good fun all the same. BBC has had a have your say on Help to buy,many of the comments have been trying to change the topic to the protest in Manchester and accusing the BEEB of bias in not reporting it.
All too easy in reporting the comment as off topic,and yeah the BEEB has upheld the objection,and removed the original comment. Double win,the comment is removed,and the original commenters go spare at having their comment removed,and accuse the BEEB of yet more bias. Yes I know,silly trolling,but fun all the same.
'So what is he looking for, he wants Cameron to show why teh union should remain, he is happy to debate his position , unionists as ever are scared rigid.'
You must be delighted that the unionists are scared rigid,all going your way,independence nailed on,why do you keep on whining?
Who is whining , you show your true colours there, don't anybody dare have an opposing opinion to you. Insecure Tory fanny.
First: St Andrews Graduate Eck would have a field day against a Etonian Fop and probably win any TV debate, Secondly: Salmond and Darling know each other and Salmond knows he would lose a TV debate. A second rate ex-RBS economist against an ex-Trotskyist, communist party trained debater, Chancellor of Exchequer, Edinburgh Councillor, Lawyer, Advocate, etc (wanna bet on who knows where the deepest bodies are buried and it ain't Eck).
As for Gorgeous George. if he had the balls to actually debate with Salmond in Scotland before some one permanently removed them (he has some very "not" friends in Scotland), he actually supports Independence and gives his adoration to Our Sublime Leader in waiting. Also another ex-communist.
Now this would be one hell of a battle of the egos. Twitter Murdo Fraser @murdo_fraser 10m Alex Salmond v. @georgegalloway? Now that's a debate I'd pay good money to see.
I think my biggest concern about the next election is the difference between left and right in self discipline and focus. Almost every other aspect of New Labour has been thrown overboard but the almost feral desire to be on message and in line remains. It is genuinely impressive.
And then read the comments btl. The hostility and division on the right dooms them to defeat. It is not just UKIP, it goes well beyond that. The tories have a civil war going on in government, not so much in Parliament but outside it. It is killing the party. And the more of this sort of nonsense I read the more convinced I become that it will result in Miliband being elected.
A House divided against itself cannot stand. Cameron has a hell of a job. Hardly any of the shadow cabinet agree with Ed but they STFU. As I say, it is impressive.
It's sporting of you to say that David - but the Blairites brief and spit as soon as Labour's lead falls below five points. Discipline isn't bad, but there is work to do.
I think my biggest concern about the next election is the difference between left and right in self discipline and focus. Almost every other aspect of New Labour has been thrown overboard but the almost feral desire to be on message and in line remains. It is genuinely impressive.
... The hostility and division on the right dooms them to defeat. It is not just UKIP, it goes well beyond that. The tories have a civil war going on in government, not so much in Parliament but outside it. It is killing the party. And the more of this sort of nonsense I read the more convinced I become that it will result in Miliband being elected.
A House divided against itself cannot stand. Cameron has a hell of a job. Hardly any of the shadow cabinet agree with Ed but they STFU. As I say, it is impressive.
I think it goes back to Harold Wilson's old comment that the way to avoid dissent is the sense that you're in a carriage that's speeding off somewhere. People might not like the direction but they're excited and wonder what it'll be like. If you halt the wagon at a crossroads, everyone gets out and starts arguing which way to go.
it's very difficult to get the speeding carriage metaphor in a coalition, partly for the obvious reason that your coalition partner keeps wanting to flex their muscles, but also because you've not got the initial impetus from an outside win.
Miliband was starting to struggle earlier this year as people throughout the party got bored with the absence of policy - yes, yes, we understood the need to wait but it still made politics seem a bit pointless. Now he's shot off like an arrow from a bow, people are quite enthused, even the Blairites who you'd expect to be stroking their beards and looking dubious. Cameron will I think try to rekindle the enthusiasm by identifying what will be done if the tories get an overall majority.
Interesting small parties. Stronach is a canadian millionaire who is anti-Euro but pro-immigration. The NEOS want miscellaneous off-beat liberal things. Neither did well in the end.
I think my biggest concern about the next election is the difference between left and right in self discipline and focus. Almost every other aspect of New Labour has been thrown overboard but the almost feral desire to be on message and in line remains. It is genuinely impressive.
And then read the comments btl. The hostility and division on the right dooms them to defeat. It is not just UKIP, it goes well beyond that. The tories have a civil war going on in government, not so much in Parliament but outside it. It is killing the party. And the more of this sort of nonsense I read the more convinced I become that it will result in Miliband being elected.
A House divided against itself cannot stand. Cameron has a hell of a job. Hardly any of the shadow cabinet agree with Ed but they STFU. As I say, it is impressive.
It's sporting of you to say that David - but the Blairites brief and spit as soon as Labour's lead falls below five points. Discipline isn't bad, but there is work to do.
In fairness I wouldn't want a Blairite in a trench with me but they seem to form a vanishingly small part of the Labour party these days.
As for Gorgeous George. if he had the balls to actually debate with Salmond in Scotland before some one permanently removed them (he has some very "not" friends in Scotland), he actually supports Independence and gives his adoration to Our Sublime Leader in waiting. Also another ex-communist.
I shan't bother arguing with your 'opinions', but that's just plain, neap-heeded wrang. Maybe you think GG's Unionism (as befitting an old comrade) is actually a deep cover?
Mr. Bobajob, given the emerging economies, massive debt and huge deficit isn't economic pain inevitable?
If we put it off then the pain will only be more severe later.
You are far too credulous if you think that being hammered by the private sector and the government simultaneously is for your long-term benefit. You are buying the big Ozzy lie. We are being rinsed, national debt is rocketing up, and the energy companies are getting very rich. I am paying 70% marginal income tax so have no incentive to work harder and help bring down the deficit, again thanks to the dickhead in No. 11.
I think my biggest concern about the next election is the difference between left and right in self discipline and focus. Almost every other aspect of New Labour has been thrown overboard but the almost feral desire to be on message and in line remains. It is genuinely impressive.
And then read the comments btl. The hostility and division on the right dooms them to defeat. It is not just UKIP, it goes well beyond that. The tories have a civil war going on in government, not so much in Parliament but outside it. It is killing the party. And the more of this sort of nonsense I read the more convinced I become that it will result in Miliband being elected.
A House divided against itself cannot stand. Cameron has a hell of a job. Hardly any of the shadow cabinet agree with Ed but they STFU. As I say, it is impressive.
It's sporting of you to say that David - but the Blairites brief and spit as soon as Labour's lead falls below five points. Discipline isn't bad, but there is work to do.
In fairness I wouldn't want a Blairite in a trench with me but they seem to form a vanishingly small part of the Labour party these days.
I think there is still quite a few, David. They weren't purged in the same way that the europhiles were in the Tory party.
GG has left so many problems from his original Dundee and supposedly missing funds from a local labour party to then annoying too many "important" people in Glasgow. Then again, he has actually annoyed people so much in Bethnal Green and Bow that he lost his seat with local councillors defecting. So he won again in Bradford West with the cycle continuing.
I am not saying he isn't a brilliant campaigner, he is fantastic - he just gets bored with the mundane work actually of representing his constituents.
As for Gorgeous George. if he had the balls to actually debate with Salmond in Scotland before some one permanently removed them (he has some very "not" friends in Scotland), he actually supports Independence and gives his adoration to Our Sublime Leader in waiting. Also another ex-communist.
I shan't bother arguing with your 'opinions', but that's just plain, neap-heeded wrang. Maybe you think GG's Unionism (as befitting an old comrade) is actually a deep cover?
The Tories obviously believe there is still more mileage in portraying the unemployed as bone idle shirkers. At some stage, though, they are going to push it too far.
Hmmm. Not sure about the Tory conference/related thus far. First day though. Union bashing (including Tory voting union members I assume), Labour bashing (no swingery voters wooed there then), benefit bashing (all are deemed scroungers I guess). Only 'hard working families' need apply. And I don't think the latter will be convinced.
Comments
Why would he agree to participate in a debate with someone he can`t match for wit.He will have a lot to lose with little to gain!
Another reason why all 3 leaders want Farage out of the debates!
Didn't think so...
Who knew that the Ship Canal features the world's only swing aqueduct?
'So what is he looking for, he wants Cameron to show why teh union should remain, he is happy to debate his position , unionists as ever are scared rigid.'
You must be delighted that the unionists are scared rigid,all going your way,independence nailed on,why do you keep on whining?
YouGov poll for the Times shows that 52% of people in Scotland back staying in the UK with only 32% in favour of leaving.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/18/alistair-darling-case-independent-scotland-floundering
'What a twat , he will take it like a man win or lose'
So the twat will resign if he loses the referendum vote?
Why should he resign, if those were the rules Cameron would be gone, he tried to emulate his pal by having a war in Syria and got a drubbing. You are a real numpty.
''Why? perhaps the rhetoric does not match the reality - Alistair Darling, whom I’m assured the tubby jock will wipe the floor with, says case for independent Scotland is floundering:'
Exactly,hence all the whining and search for excuses.
'Why should he resign,'
Because independence is the prime reason for the SNP's existence,after complaining for years that the other parties blocked a referendum,Salmond has one and the Scottish voters say thanks but no thanks.
Was speaking to a number of folk in Glasgow recent on Independence. The one thing that united Yes and No supporters was that Darling and the No campaign were not doing a good job.
Cameron isn't Scottish. This is a vote by the Scottish people to determine the fate of Scotland for centuries to come.
Do you foresee many calls for von Rumpoy's successor to come over to debate with any UK pm who arranges for a referendum? Me neither. Bugger off, it's nowt to do with thee as they say in Yorkshire.
I'd like to go and see the Anderton boat lift on the Trent and Mersey, which is fairly near there. I've done the Falkirk Wheel on a couple of occasions (a good bit o' Derbyshire engineering), but the Anderton's a very different beast. True Meccano engineering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderton_Boat_Lift
I'd also like to see the Strépy-Thieu in France:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strépy-Thieu_boat_lift
So much to see, so little time ...
Even without the charts, however, this truncated version of the article is worth a read: http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/001931.html
This is a good example:
"The Westminster government’s latest Scotland analysis has useful background on the border effect; how separation leads to a drop on bilateral trade. Prior to the split of Czechoslovakia 20 years ago, 22% of what are now Czech Republic “exports” went to Slovakia. Within five years it was less than 10%. The effect for Slovakia was even more dramatic, a drop from nearly 45% to 15%. Ireland saw a drop over decades from 90% of trade with Britain to around 25%.
So Scottish businesses will face the challenge of replacing a likely loss of trade with the rest of the UK. Nine in 10 customers of Scotland’s financial services industry are in the rest of the UK; as are 60% of its business services exports and a third of the exports of its key food and drink sector."
I think the PM of the UK should campaign for the future existence of the UK. I am sure he will. Whether that means he should debate with Salmond is another question. Ultimately this is a decision for Scots and Scots should argue the case.
If Yorkshire were proposing independence would a Lancastrian PM debating with the head of the Yorkshire Nationalist Party be fair and sensible?
Thou art a fool if you think so.
Anyway, I'm off.
Twitter
Murdo Fraser @murdo_fraser 10m
Alex Salmond v. @georgegalloway? Now that's a debate I'd pay good money to see.
http://www.fipt.org.uk/lift.html
Even more exciting than debates about debates!
There are some many wonderful bits of engineering scattered around this country, and few people seem to take pride in, or even know about, them.
Wonderful cartoon, Comrade Marf! One of your best yet!
http://lisasmart.org.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbląg_Canal
Dear Avery by the Decembrists: www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeHhV79BCU4
SPO 27.1%; 53 seats
OVP 23.8% ; 46
FPO 21.4%; 42
Greens 11.5%; 22
Stronach 5.8%; 11
NEOS 4.8%; 9
Although my heart still lies with my namesake's merger between railway and canal - the Cromford and High Peak Railway in Derbyshire. A tramway built to canal principles with inclined planes and long level sections. It had bene done elsewhere, but the scale of the C&HPR was something else ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromford_and_High_Peak_Railway
(*) Slide 9 at http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow.cfm?id=panama-canal-the-worlds-greatest-engineering-project
By contrast look at this harmless and largely pointless piece of pre Conference puffery by Benedict Brogan: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100238568/deadly-serious-david-cameron-the-best-answer-to-red-ed-is-economic-recovery/
And then read the comments btl. The hostility and division on the right dooms them to defeat. It is not just UKIP, it goes well beyond that. The tories have a civil war going on in government, not so much in Parliament but outside it. It is killing the party. And the more of this sort of nonsense I read the more convinced I become that it will result in Miliband being elected.
A House divided against itself cannot stand. Cameron has a hell of a job. Hardly any of the shadow cabinet agree with Ed but they STFU. As I say, it is impressive.
If Cameron hadn't started of saying 'I will fight with every fibre of my body to keep Scotland in the union' and yet has now decided to leave the referendum debate as a matter for 'Scots living in Scotland'(these both are quotes), demands for him to defy his capon heart and show up for a debate might be pretty thin. However since he and his government have continually indulged in scaremongering interventions, and employ the UK civil service to produce reports to bolster said scaremongering, he deserves all the pelters he gets.
"Leading Scottish businesses are keeping silent on the critical question of next year's independence referendum because of fears that any pro-Union public pronouncements will be commercially "punished" by Alex Salmond's Holyrood government."
All too easy in reporting the comment as off topic,and yeah the BEEB has upheld the objection,and removed the original comment. Double win,the comment is removed,and the original commenters go spare at having their comment removed,and accuse the BEEB of yet more bias.
Yes I know,silly trolling,but fun all the same.
As for Gorgeous George. if he had the balls to actually debate with Salmond in Scotland before some one permanently removed them (he has some very "not" friends in Scotland), he actually supports Independence and gives his adoration to Our Sublime Leader in waiting. Also another ex-communist.
it's very difficult to get the speeding carriage metaphor in a coalition, partly for the obvious reason that your coalition partner keeps wanting to flex their muscles, but also because you've not got the initial impetus from an outside win.
Miliband was starting to struggle earlier this year as people throughout the party got bored with the absence of policy - yes, yes, we understood the need to wait but it still made politics seem a bit pointless. Now he's shot off like an arrow from a bow, people are quite enthused, even the Blairites who you'd expect to be stroking their beards and looking dubious. Cameron will I think try to rekindle the enthusiasm by identifying what will be done if the tories get an overall majority.
Interesting small parties. Stronach is a canadian millionaire who is anti-Euro but pro-immigration. The NEOS want miscellaneous off-beat liberal things. Neither did well in the end.
Mr. L, indeed. They're sheep and wolves.
If we put it off then the pain will only be more severe later.
Seems to have gone off peacefully. Bless our national news service. Why do we need anything else?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24286582
That is why RHDI (Real Households' Disposable Income) increased by 1.5% in Quarter 2 2013.
If you don't believe me consult the ONS stats:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24323395
We are being rinsed, national debt is rocketing up, and the energy companies are getting very rich. I am paying 70% marginal income tax so have no incentive to work harder and help bring down the deficit, again thanks to the dickhead in No. 11.
http://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/news/2013/06/20/70-of-consumers-overcharged-on-a-household-bills/
Prohibitive taxes
Higher prices
Skyrocketing debt
Ozzy's triple whammy.
I am not saying he isn't a brilliant campaigner, he is fantastic - he just gets bored with the mundane work actually of representing his constituents.
How life affirming it is to discover a song has been written to you.
At least that is how I felt until I read the second comment on the YouTube thread:
Paige Larsen 1 year ago
i love the name Avery, when i grow up and have a kid, if its a girl, i will name it Avery Anne. Excellent
Arsenal: WWWWW
Liverpool: WWDLW
Spurs: WLWWD
Chelsea: WDLWD
Man City: LWDWL
Man United: LMFAO
Record and post it to YouTube.
Then I will reply.