LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
We have compromised.
Remember when A50 was the transition period? Then we have Dec 2020 transition period.
Now transition is extended again (for CU) and this time it's basically put into the never, never...
Millions of people who voted to leave are going to die and never actually see it (I'm 40 and even I've got my doubts I'll live long enough to see it actually happen) which I guess is kind of the point.
Play for time. Play for time. Play for time. Turn us into a vassal state for a decade and then have another vote to rejoin (single currency and all....) You can see as clear as day what they are doing...
Actually the whole "negotiation" has been one never ending compromise from Theresa May to the point now where there's actually no point carrying on with the thing.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
It is increasingly clear that hard Brexiteers are the mirror image of Corbynistas, it is their way or the high way!
Don't they have to be there for our negotiation strategy to have a basis? Ie if they're not there there's no reason for us not to accept whatever shitty deal the EU offer us
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
The Jews are not dealing with secular liberals who they are persecuting for no reason other than senseless bigotry.
Two peoples with a claim to the land are competing over it. If the Arabs lose, they still have lots of land. I the Jews lose, they get wiped out.
I'll make a slightly different point. I have been arguing on the principle and the moral case, or not, for a sectarian state through discrimination against those living there who are not in the sect. But Jewish Israelis are unlikely to care what people like me think. They are the top dogs and have every intention of remaining such. Morals don't come into it. If I were Jewish I would probably support this. We're all victims of our upbringing. Undeniably Israel's achievements have been impressive in many ways.
But, just maybe, I would pause for thought. 7 million Israeli Jews imposing their state against the visceral opposition of 360 million Arabs probably isn't sustainable in the long term. Again, morals don't come into this calculation.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
I'm amused by the notion that Brexit would be a piece of piss were it not for the likes of Phil Hammond.
Your prime example is Gove and the CFP. Tell me how Remainers sabotaged that?
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
We have compromised.
Remember when A50 was the transition period? Then we have Dec 2020 transition period.
Now transition is extended again (for CU) and this time it's basically put into the never, never...
Millions of people who voted to leave are going to die and never actually see it (I'm 40 and even I've got my doubts I'll live long enough to see it actually happen) which I guess is kind of the point.
Play for time. Play for time. Play for time. Turn us into a vassal state for a decade and then have another vote to rejoin (single currency and all....) You can see as clear as day what they are doing...
Actually the whole "negotiation" has been one never ending compromise from Theresa May to the point now where there's actually no point carrying on with the thing.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
Why did Leavers go from saying they wanted a soft Brexit soon after the vote to saying that soft Brexit was not Brexit and anyone proposing it was a traitor?
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
The Jews are not dealing with secular liberals who they are persecuting for no reason other than senseless bigotry.
Two peoples with a claim to the land are competing over it. If the Arabs lose, they still have lots of land. I the Jews lose, they get wiped out.
I'll make a slightly different point. I have been arguing on the principle and the moral case, or not, for a sectarian state through discrimination against those living there who are not in the sect. But Jewish Israelis are unlikely to care what people like me think. They are the top dogs and have every intention of remaining such. Morals don't come into it. If I were Jewish I would probably support this. We're all victims of our upbringing. Undeniably Israel's achievements have been impressive in many ways.
But, just maybe, I would pause for thought. 7 million Israeli Jews imposing their state against the visceral opposition of 360 million Arabs probably isn't sustainable in the long term. Again, morals don't come into this calculation.
Israel is almost certainly already a nuclear weapons state with one of the most effective militaries in the world to defend a nation little more than the size of Wales, it is quite capable of defending itself while still leaving plenty of room for Arabs in the Middle East
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
Yes it is the Remainers’ fault the Brexit lobby had not the foggiest idea of what they wanted Brexit to look like.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
It is increasingly clear that hard Brexiteers are the mirror image of Corbynistas, it is their way or the high way!
Don't they have to be there for our negotiation strategy to have a basis? Ie if they're not there there's no reason for us not to accept whatever shitty deal the EU offer us
They are supposedly holding May's feet to the fire but May has clearly decided she does not want to be consumed by the flames
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
Why did Leavers go from saying they wanted a soft Brexit soon after the vote to saying that soft Brexit was not Brexit and anyone proposing it was a traitor?
I think you're talking about different groups of Leavers. The official campaign always made clear we would leave the single market. As did the Remain campaign in fact.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
While Remain said it would be an immediate catastrophe.
As ever things are somewhere between the blusters but so far rather more towards the Leave side.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
I'm amused by the notion that Brexit would be a piece of piss were it not for the likes of Phil Hammond.
Your prime example is Gove and the CFP. Tell me how Remainers sabotaged that?
No one has sabotaged that one. It's being scrapped after 2020.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
But Leave said it would be easy, that there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands with Brexit.
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
Leave made the mistake of assuming Remainers would lose with good grace and get on board with getting the best deal for the UK, rather than trying to sabotage the process. That made it a lot harder.
Yes it is the Remainers’ fault the Brexit lobby had not the foggiest idea of what they wanted Brexit to look like.
Whatever gets you through the night.
The Brexit lobby is very clear what they want. It is cabinet Remainers trying to keep them inside EU structures.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
Turkey is in a customs union; a very one sided one, too.
I'll await the details before I say more either way. But it took us 7 years to enter the EEC from our previous commonwealth preference arrangements.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
We have compromised.
Remember when A50 was the transition period? Then we have Dec 2020 transition period.
Now transition is extended again (for CU) and this time it's basically put into the never, never...
Millions of people who voted to leave are going to die and never actually see it (I'm 40 and even I've got my doubts I'll live long enough to see it actually happen) which I guess is kind of the point.
Play for time. Play for time. Play for time. Turn us into a vassal state for a decade and then have another vote to rejoin (single currency and all....) You can see as clear as day what they are doing...
Actually the whole "negotiation" has been one never ending compromise from Theresa May to the point now where there's actually no point carrying on with the thing.
The UK is at present a vassal state.
Now I can understand why you want that changed asap but to be honest I'm in no rush to see Liam Fox agreeing new trade deals.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023. It makes sense to pull out FoM amd the SM first, then the CU later.
You should actually be pleased because it gives an advantage to Brexiteers in the next Tory leadership contest - they will be the ones promising the base they will hold firm to the timeline.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023. It makes sense to pull out FoM amd the SM first, then the CU later.
You should actually be pleased because it gives an advantage to Brexiteers in the next Tory leadership contest - they will be the ones promising the base they will hold firm to the timeline.
It’s five years away. Several millions of gallons to rush under the metaphorical bridge before we get there.
There are blindingly obvious way of dealing with Irish border situation.
1. Checks will happen further up the line, not at the border.
Push the line out to the sea and Bob's your uncle.
They can do it at Belfast port without breaking sweat. My understanding is the port authority have pretty much got all their scenario planning done and dusted. Too much symbolism going on and not enough practicality.
Ironically, MaxFac could really be useful at the Irish Sea ports (and Dover too). Much more than on the Irish land border. Trade specialists reckon the Irish Sea is the better place for customs controls on grounds of practicality.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
We will be out of the EU and the single market and will have ended free movement by the next general election, the customs union is just an obsession for the most ideological of Leavers not the average Leave voter
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
The fact you don't care about immigration or the SM at all I am afraid to say just proves you were not voting Leave for the same reasons as the vast majority of Leave voters
The fact you don't care about immigration or the SM at all I am afraid to say just proves you were not voting Leave for the same reasons as the vast majority of Leave voters
According to Daniel Hannan, Remain voters who think the Leave win was all about immigration are the biggest problem. It's all your fault.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
The fact you don't care about immigration or the SM at all I am afraid to say just proves you were not voting Leave for the same reasons as the vast majority of Leave voters
According to Daniel Hannan, Remain voters who think the Leave win was all about immigration are the biggest problem. It's all your fault.
Well he may think that but there is no way Leave would have got a majority of voters without those who were most concerned about getting tougher immigration laws
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
We will be out of the EU and the single market and will have ended free movement by the next general election, the customs union is just an obsession for the most ideological of Leavers not the average Leave voter
The backstop agreement is full alignment with rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union. It's not just the Customs Union. Next stop is staying in the single market for at least the next five years.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
Again, that is a Golden Rule only in the warped annals of your own Brexit addled mind. There is no such rule in the real world.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
Seriously. Anyone who doesn't get this is an idiot.
Comparing any Jew to a Nazi is completely out of order.
Israel has no policy of rounding up Palestinians and exterminating them.
Comparing Israel to Nazis is comparing Jews to genocidal maniacs.
Yes, it's the pointless hyperbole approach, like comparing every Tory to Mussolini or every socialist to Pol Pot. The effect is simultaneously to devalue the argument, to insult the victims of the greater atrocity, and to make people look for someone more sensible to talk to.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
We will be out of the EU and the single market and will have ended free movement by the next general election, the customs union is just an obsession for the most ideological of Leavers not the average Leave voter
The backstop agreement is full alignment with rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union. It's not just the Customs Union. Next stop is staying in the single market for at least the next five years.
No it does not include staying fully in the single market and keeping freedom of movement and as both Corbyn and May have committed to leaving the single market there is zero chance of us staying in that even if we do remain in the customs union for a while longer to resolve the Irish border issue
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
Again, that is a Golden Rule only in the warped annals of your own Brexit addled mind. There is no such rule in the real world.
Its an opinion, sure.
But events keep proving it pretty accurate.
Remember Gina Miller? Or James Chapman? Or Corbyn. LOL
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
When Brexit happens, SeanT will be happy to collect his winnings....
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
brexit will not be cancelled. wishful thinking on your part. getting out of the EU is like trying to escape from a spiders web, but we will break free if we keep our resolve, and we will flourish, if we avoid thick idiots like Corbyn running the show
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
' Concentration in this market has now reached absurd levels – the big four are auditors to 97% of FTSE 350 companies. Carillion perfectly illustrated the closed shop in action. KMPG approved the accounts, Deloitte advised the board on risk management, and EY was consulted on turnaround plans. That left the field clear for PwC to name its price as adviser to the Official Receiver. '
The breaking up of the big audit firms is long overdue
There are way too many cosy cartels in this country. It’s one of the key reasons that we suffer from low productivity, in my opinion.
Not least in politics, of course. Prior to 2010 the last time we had a de jure two party government was 1964, the last time in practice we had a multiparty government was 1945, the last time a party other than Labour or the Conservatives/Unionists won over 100 seats was in 1923, the last time we had a government led by a party other than Labour or the Conservatives/Unionists was 1915 and the last time a party other than those two won an actual majority was 1906.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
When Brexit happens, SeanT will be happy to collect his winnings....
Fortunately for William, I think there was a time limit on that bet.
Being out of the EU and the single market is not a vassal state, even Turkey participates in the customs union and there is next to zero appetite for the single currency amongst British voters
Turkey is the only country that's in CU but out of the EU from what I understand.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
It's not indefinite. It's until 2023.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
i fully sympathise with your disillusionment with TMs negotiating skills and compromises, but i guess on a - trying to be positive note - that a) we will no longer be a member of the EU politically from next year, b) we will leave the single market and end FOM by 2020, and c) the CU is only a temporary fix to keep things stable until technology is in place to replace the need for it, d)TM will no doubt be gone (rejoice) before 2022 and whoever wins the tory leadership contest will have to persuade the tory members who are 70% leave that they will be the one to complete the UKs departure from the EU and its institutions by 2023 and thus honour the 2016 vote to leave the EU
I think that is a very fair estimate of the position.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
When Brexit is cancelled, you'll say, "Aha! The Remainers are stuffed now as they have nothing left to moan about!"
When Brexit happens, SeanT will be happy to collect his winnings....
Fortunately for William, I think there was a time limit on that bet.
The cut-off date is December 31st 2019. If we're out then then I lose.
On Russia, the Italian government-in-waiting is in favour of dropping sanctions against Russia.
Russia has done an extraordinary job of suborning certain individuals and parties across the West. You have to hand it to them.
They've managed to do it because the discontent with the elites exists in the first place. In places like Italy the people are fed up of the cosy EUphile theocracy offered by the traditional parties. It gives the Russians an easy opening gambit, just as it did with Trump and, by the sounds of things, Brexit. The Russians haven't created anything, all they have done is take advantage of a situation that already exists to further their own aims.
Lenin said revolutions don't happen where conditions are worse they happen were there is the greatest gap between expectations and actuality. He was right about most things...
Remember that we had a seven year transition from Imperial Preference Tariffs to the Common External Tariff.
I would prefer our phasing to be explicit, but staying in some kind of customs partnership with the EU for a couple of years post transition really isn't the end of the world.
' Concentration in this market has now reached absurd levels – the big four are auditors to 97% of FTSE 350 companies. Carillion perfectly illustrated the closed shop in action. KMPG approved the accounts, Deloitte advised the board on risk management, and EY was consulted on turnaround plans. That left the field clear for PwC to name its price as adviser to the Official Receiver. '
The breaking up of the big audit firms is long overdue
There are way too many cosy cartels in this country. It’s one of the key reasons that we suffer from low productivity, in my opinion.
Not least in politics, of course. Prior to 2010 the last time we had a de jure two party government was 1964, the last time in practice we had a multiparty government was 1945, the last time a party other than Labour or the Conservatives/Unionists won over 100 seats was in 1923, the last time we had a government led by a party other than Labour or the Conservatives/Unionists was 1915 and the last time a party other than those two won an actual majority was 1906.
As an Irish nationalist I actually agree that Brexit isn't enough for a United Ireland but I would equally be fearful for those who support the Union if they believe demographics will not be a major threat to Northern Ireland's constitutional status in the coming years
Comments
As the Lib Dems can attest to misleading your voters with your signature policy leads to the shedding of votes.
Remember when A50 was the transition period? Then we have Dec 2020 transition period.
Now transition is extended again (for CU) and this time it's basically put into the never, never...
Millions of people who voted to leave are going to die and never actually see it (I'm 40 and even I've got my doubts I'll live long enough to see it actually happen) which I guess is kind of the point.
Play for time. Play for time. Play for time. Turn us into a vassal state for a decade and then have another vote to rejoin (single currency and all....) You can see as clear as day what they are doing...
Actually the whole "negotiation" has been one never ending compromise from Theresa May to the point now where there's actually no point carrying on with the thing.
But, just maybe, I would pause for thought. 7 million Israeli Jews imposing their state against the visceral opposition of 360 million Arabs probably isn't sustainable in the long term. Again, morals don't come into this calculation.
Your prime example is Gove and the CFP. Tell me how Remainers sabotaged that?
Whatever gets you through the night.
As ever things are somewhere between the blusters but so far rather more towards the Leave side.
Personally I wouldn't particularly mind staying in the single market as I don't care about immigration at all and SM does have a lot of positives (it would be a betrayal of all those voters who voted leave to get control of our borders) but staying in the customs union indefinitely (essentially still having most of the negatives of being in the EU while leaving all the positive's) just makes the whole exercise pointless.
I'll await the details before I say more either way. But it took us 7 years to enter the EEC from our previous commonwealth preference arrangements.
Now I can understand why you want that changed asap but to be honest I'm in no rush to see Liam Fox agreeing new trade deals.
You should actually be pleased because it gives an advantage to Brexiteers in the next Tory leadership contest - they will be the ones promising the base they will hold firm to the timeline.
*this may or may not be true.
Beyond the next election... The Tories had to get us out before the next general election.
They've failed.
I have heard that MalcolmMG is your uncle.
I'm just not sure what OGH's views have to do with what his son thinks.
Remember the Golden Rule of Brexit, too; anything which cheers Remainers eventually hurts their cause.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/16/john-bercow-saved-bullying-allegations-handful-mps-reject-formal/
But events keep proving it pretty accurate.
Remember Gina Miller? Or James Chapman? Or Corbyn. LOL
Remember that we had a seven year transition from Imperial Preference Tariffs to the Common External Tariff.
I would prefer our phasing to be explicit, but staying in some kind of customs partnership with the EU for a couple of years post transition really isn't the end of the world.
"Better to have Brexit ‘crisis’ sooner rather than later, says Coveney"
Didn't realise the National Liberals supported Labour...
https://www.abitleftandabitlost.com/posts/demographics-and-brexit-alone-may-not-deliver-a-united-ireland